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02:08:20 <rzolf> hey talli.
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16:39:50 <talli> anybody home <echo> home ... home... home...</echo>
16:53:16 <davb> hi
16:53:18 <davb> :)
17:04:27 <talli> yo davb, que pasa?
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17:25:07 <davb> * davb returns
17:25:13 <davb> sorry, I was cooking chili :)
17:25:24 <talli> damn chili! 
17:25:30 <talli> taking my davb away from me!
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17:34:49 <talli> bring your pants this time, vinod?
17:35:06 <davb> uh, hi vinod :)
17:35:26 <vinod> hey davb!
17:35:38 <vinod> i saw once again - pants are overrated
17:35:43 <vinod> s/saw/say
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17:48:09 <talli> the enterprise wars have escalated
17:48:27 <vinod> igorrolf?
17:48:41 <talli> the humpbacked lackey
17:48:47 <vinod> haha
17:48:56 <talli> and it's igorzolf, to you, veenod
17:49:20 <vinod> a thousand apologies
17:50:39 <vinod> i think talli should add a 'z' to his name
17:50:54 <vinod> tzalli?
17:50:56 <talli> tazlli? talliz?
17:51:01 <talli> tzalli is too israeli.
17:51:04 <vinod> tazli is cool too
17:51:06 <talli> so is talliz
17:51:08 <davb> talzli
17:51:14 <talli> that's a good one
17:51:36 <talli> how about an X?
17:51:40 <talli> taxlli?
17:51:45 <talli> talixili?
17:51:54 <vinod> yes!
17:52:06 <talli> talli is now known as talixili
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17:53:15 <zinod> see, this is the kind of brainstorming we need to find a new name for openacs
17:53:16 <talixili> zinod, i think you should add a q to your name
17:53:18 <talixili> qinod
17:53:29 <dazvb> zinqod
17:53:38 <talixili> ooo... that's a good one dazvb
17:53:59 <zinod> zinod is now known as zinqod
17:54:00 <talixili> dazvb, you need an l. davzlb
17:54:07 <zinqod> haha
17:54:10 <dazvb> dazvb is now known as davzlb
17:54:15 <davzlb> cool
17:54:31 <davzlb> OqenZcs
17:54:34 <zinqod> heh, rzolf's got nuthin on us now
17:54:44 <zinqod> davzlb: yes!
17:55:01 <davzlb> OlqenZcs
17:55:11 <zinqod> "if you can pronounce it, we'll let you download it"
17:55:48 <talixili> perfect!
17:55:54 <talixili> let's poll it!
18:25:23 <talixili> what holiday is today? is it president's day?
18:25:40 <davzlb> yes
18:25:50 <talixili> thanks
18:40:18 <davzlb> http://www.onlinecommunityreport.com/features/10
18:40:18 <chump> A: http://www.onlinecommunityreport.com/features/10 from davzlb
18:40:29 <davzlb> A:|Top Ten Trends in Online Communities
18:40:30 <chump> titled item A
18:51:49 <talixili> that's an interesting article
18:52:08 <talixili> some of it seems pretty obvious, but maybe that's because we work in web communities so much.
18:58:35 <davzlb> yeah. but its a good reminder :)
19:13:45 <marduk_away> * marduk_away is back (gone 67:41:43)
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19:30:07 <zinqod> of course, his idea of "success" seems to be revenue. i wonder how many of those models are profitable
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19:30:27 <zinqod> theglobe.com had revenue of $30M at one point, too
19:30:42 <davb> davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-161-172.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
19:31:01 <talixili> kintera.com, grassroots.com and all the other NPO asps are probably sucking wind right now
19:38:20 <k2pts> k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs
19:38:28 <talixili> hey k2pts
19:38:37 <k2pts> hit talixili 
19:38:42 <k2pts> s/hit/hey
19:38:43 <k2pts> :)
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19:39:53 <k2pts> hey vinod :)
19:40:04 <vinod> hey k2pts
19:42:04 <davb> hi k2pts
19:42:59 <k2pts> hey dave, how's it going?
19:43:18 <davb> not bad.
19:44:19 <davb> not good, but not bad :)
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19:46:56 <k2pts> hey starets.
19:47:10 <Starets> Hey Neophytos! 
19:47:34 <k2pts> that article you linked the other day describes a similar mechanism as the tree_sortkey one...but that mechanism is slower because it self-joins a table
19:48:46 <Starets> A self-join would be slower than a one-table op, although the index types in the nested set mechanism give it good locality. 
19:49:03 <Starets> I'd bet that in practice, retrieval times are comparable. 
19:49:55 <Starets> On large datasets, I'd bet that updates, inserts and deletes might be slower on nested sets than tree_sortkey, but nested sets to not require monkeying around with the tree_sortkey column on non-Oracle datasets. 
19:50:09 <Starets> non-Oracle databases that is.  (Who typed _that_?) 
19:50:41 <k2pts> maybe, i can't comment on the locality issue but remember that the tree_sortkey mechanism use indices pretty well
19:50:56 <Starets> I'm sure that tree_sortkey is a win on Oracle, but I'd bet it doesn't compete as well on other platforms. 
19:51:09 <Starets> (at least ones that don't implement "collect") 
19:51:36 <k2pts> tree_sortkey was initially developed in postgresql because pg doesn't support "connect by"
19:52:02 <Starets> right, I meant "connect by".  I think I need a nap. 
19:52:30 <k2pts> this is what I'm saying: it doesn't need the "connect by"
19:52:36 <k2pts> it replaces it
19:54:51 <Starets> I can't see arguing about their relative performance without some empirical data. 
19:55:10 <Starets> But I think they're really not similar. 
19:55:14 <k2pts> right
19:57:15 <Starets> Thanks for looking into it, though, and for educating me about tree_sortkey. 
19:57:26 <k2pts> np
19:57:47 <k2pts> have to head out guys, later
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20:28:07 <davb> http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/000168
20:28:07 <chump> B: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/000168 from davb
20:28:19 <davb> B:|Students, Teachers, and Dragons
20:28:19 <chump> titled item B
20:28:43 <davb> B: story based learning
20:28:44 <chump> commented item B
20:28:59 <Starets> Starets has left #openACS
20:29:28 <davb> http://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/
20:29:28 <chump> C: http://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/ from davb
20:30:00 <davb> C:|Tinderbox: Personal Content Management  Assistant, or "the tool for notes"
20:30:00 <chump> titled item C
20:30:32 <davb> c: argh, only for Macintosh for now :<
20:32:02 <davb> brb: going back the the light side
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21:04:10 <talli> en guarde
21:04:14 <davb> hi denshi
21:04:22 <denshi> howdy davb.
21:05:01 <denshi> talli, you should know that when I become a Zen Master, you will be first to be roasted with my laser eye-beams.
21:05:15 <talli> right.
21:05:24 <denshi> oh, wait, that's when I build my robot army.  Sorry, wrong notebook.
21:05:28 <talli> will you need a booster seat to use those eye beams?
21:05:45 <denshi> bad weekend?
21:06:30 <talli> an "enterprising" weekend
21:07:42 <denshi> ah, excellent.
21:13:17 <denshi> on sunday I really dug into TOra.  ignore most of what I said last time.  This postgres work could be easier than planned.
21:13:36 <denshi> then my root disk had a head crash.  cute.
21:13:42 <talli> does it look cool?
21:13:57 <talli> did you speak with that belgian dude at all?
21:14:33 <denshi> I just sent the email today.  I haven't had time to explore feasibility really throughly until this weekend.
21:14:42 <talli> cool
21:14:57 <denshi> there are two other guys who submit pgsql patches -- first I must know if he's contacted them yet.
21:15:10 <talli> right
21:15:27 <denshi> what do you think about OACS-mode hacks?
21:15:53 <talli> i think they sounded killer
21:16:10 <talli> especially if they can be built to work with Oracle and PG
21:17:02 <denshi> * denshi goes back to bboard to fight talli off.
21:17:28 <talli> careful what you quest for, my son
21:18:21 <denshi> but you really shouldn't ask for haiku, old man.
21:18:46 <talli> you prefer the sonnet form?
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21:31:32 <denshi> * denshi hides
21:33:38 <vinod> * vinod is waiting for a piece of those "biiig profits!"
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22:12:16 <marduk_away> * marduk_away is away: need a break ... 
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22:29:46 <denshi> bye guys
22:30:31 <davb> bye
22:30:40 <davb> oops....too much habenero sauce...
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