00:00:04 but there is that HUGE machine that is sitting there for no reason 00:00:22 since it's such an important service, maybe it would make sense to back it up? perhaps an uptime for uptime? 00:00:27 Plus the few times I has burped, I'm only 20 mins away... 00:00:40 k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs 00:00:45 oh man 00:00:48 look who's here 00:00:49 Talli I have that :) I friend of mine monitors it with SiteScope for me... 00:00:50 hey talli 00:00:53 ah, ok 00:01:06 Shhh..stop talking about him now :) 00:01:20 ok 00:01:37 can i just mention to him my dream about him and his bikini? 00:01:56 In private please, I don't need nightmares! 00:01:56 :) 00:03:10 what's sitescope, shagster? 00:03:25 System monitoring package.... 00:03:51 k2pts has left #openacs 00:04:04 Check Web Sites, System Load, disk space, smtp, pop, imap 00:04:12 is it good? 00:04:19 Overly expensive , but good 00:04:40 can you think of a piece of software that IS NOT overly expensive? 00:04:55 I don't like it, but he has the licences 00:05:03 Umm postgres :) 00:05:08 there's gotta be something out there that is worth all the money you pour into it 00:05:13 touche :) 00:05:19 i meant somethihng you gotta pay for 00:05:44 windows, no 00:05:47 oracle, no 00:05:57 office, no 00:06:02 photoshop, no 00:06:18 Actually I've used plesk (for basic web hosting clients and it is fairly good 00:06:25 what's plesk? 00:06:55 Basically gives you apache, php, mysql, qmail, proftpd, etc with customer control and such 00:07:05 http://www.plesk.com 00:07:05 A: http://www.plesk.com from shagster 00:07:20 php and mysql? bite your tongue. ;) 00:07:24 what does it do? 00:07:40 I use if for the quick, 'here is your website and email address see you next year' type customers 00:07:51 ah, those are the best 00:08:17 Gives a rather nice control interface. Setup a client, give him access. Set his limit on mail boxes, domains, etc. 00:08:23 so, btw, i'm down with helping you host a cleveland social, if you'd like 00:08:26 gimme a date 00:08:53 Heh, I'd have to find people in cleveland (or near by) that use OpenACS... 00:09:09 well, you'd be surprised... 00:09:14 I think I'm the diamond in the rough here right now... 00:09:23 there are often lurkers that show up, and i also try to invite the local LUGs to show up as well 00:09:39 so there are usually enough nerds that you can bring out of the woodwork 00:09:50 usually 8-12 is a nice showing 00:09:55 Well, I use to be VP of the local lug :) 00:10:02 the basic deal is just to get a few the first time, and to get people to learn something 00:10:11 and for me to get rid of all these fscking tshirts i have 00:10:48 I'm trying to get people interested , but the current members of the LUG are "new" to anything non-windows 00:11:01 nice. some LUGers 00:11:06 You can always send me a t-shirt! :) 00:11:06 that's ok, though 00:11:17 I'm working on it a bit though... 00:11:30 http://cleveland.lug.net 00:11:30 B: http://cleveland.lug.net from shagster 00:11:39 if you offer them beer, they usually at least let you talk to them 00:11:46 even if they're not paying attention :) 00:12:03 They owe me more beer that I can count 00:12:10 I run their game server :) 00:12:11 :) 00:12:19 then threaten them! 00:12:27 Heh..that should work :) 00:12:43 Of course, I get back at them...the game server is: games.manboobs.com :) 00:12:48 anyway, getting people to listen to what the OACS is about is basically my fulltime job 00:12:54 haha 00:13:12 I'm really trying to wait a bit till 4 beta is there.... 00:13:29 (yes, I own the domain manboobs.com, by mom is SO proud) 00:13:38 i'm there now 00:13:44 you must be really bored 00:13:53 I was..... 00:14:05 :) 00:14:18 I heard some people talking about postnuke, So I seen what I could do with it... 00:14:39 4 beta is a nice milestone, but it's not such a big dealo. i've managed to convince very suspicious people that it's more than adequate 00:14:39 Then said...well, that sucks :) 00:14:49 oh yeah? good to know that abotu phpnuke 00:15:11 i asked luke about php and he said that it reminds him of a language written by high schoolers 00:15:13 Yea, but I know a few of the people that will be interested and if they see too much change I know they will run 00:15:58 til, you there? 00:15:59 I'm not a big fan of PHP, but I've also gotten quite a few web designers into programming by showing them PHP 00:16:12 well, that's kinda the thing... 00:16:23 the difference between a php hacker and an OACS hacker is HUGE 00:16:27 and i don't think that's a bad thing 00:16:59 someone who only knows mysql should really not touch oracle, or even PG, until they have done some serious training 00:17:00 Yea, but PHP has an easy learning curve and is easy to teach the 'programming basics' with 00:17:18 Well, mysql is a completely different story :) 00:17:19 talli: sort of, yes 00:17:39 so the people i try to convince to use OACS are not those types, but the higher level dudes 00:17:55 til, those were some nice props you got from donb on the bboards. congrats 00:18:06 also the php implementation of arrays is horribly ugly 00:18:19 props from donb can be a hard thing to come by. gotta earn those 00:18:21 ugly is too kind for it... 00:18:27 php does arrays? 00:18:28 talli: wait until somebody really tries the script, the he will take it all back ;) 00:19:28 mysql is a different story. it would be really great if it ever got it's shit together though and actually became a real DB 00:19:56 til, where are you in the world? 00:20:16 talli: berlin 00:20:20 whoa! 00:20:25 wait, i knew that 00:20:35 you know, hopefully in may there will be an OACS social in amsterdam 00:21:05 really? wow! that's only a few hours away, and a visit to amsterdam is always fine anyway ... 00:21:55 who is hosting it? the greenpeace people? 00:22:06 actually, donb should be coming out as well. and yes, with the greenpeace people 00:22:22 i don't bother either way :) 00:23:29 Heh...... 00:23:37 til, btw, that's a really cool thing you released 00:23:42 thanks alot 00:23:57 send me a tshirt then ;-) 00:24:14 sure. send me postage and handling :) 00:24:42 someday :) 00:25:38 maybe you can manage to send some to the amsterdam social 00:25:54 i hope to be at the amsterdam social 00:26:24 Hmmm..... 00:26:48 shagster, i think that trip is the kind that can be written off, you know... 00:27:00 "biznarse" trip 00:27:10 That is what the hmmm was about :) 00:27:43 I have enough freq-flyer miles I think 00:28:47 Hey, then I might actually goto Linuxworld again :) 00:29:55 I haven't been to one of those since I start working on the mips kernel 00:30:18 well, i've heard that they've shrunk a great deal 00:30:29 but the .Org Pavillion is cool 00:30:39 they have a section that is devoted to OSS projects 00:30:40 Yea, too many suits.... 00:31:06 the suits have all gotten their asses kicked out, though. at least most of them 00:31:24 many are still there, with their cheesiness, but for the most part it's reasonably organic 00:31:27 I guess I'll have to start showing up again.... 00:31:40 ximian's booth at the NYC one was all monkeys and shit 00:31:59 But I guess the booth babes are really around anymore :( 00:32:00 kinda lame. they didn't show off mono, just evolution. cool, i guess. 00:32:12 no, no booth babes. 00:32:23 Yea but I use mutt, so evalution doesn't help me 00:32:35 ximian replaces booth babes with monkeys? brr 00:32:38 lots of potbellies and beards, though. not as many as i expected, but there are still plenty of goth sysadmins around 00:32:45 stuffed monkeys 00:33:00 Heh, I'm the potbelly, no beard :) 00:33:19 stuff a booth babe? That sounds better...LOL 00:33:21 got manboobs too? :) 00:33:36 Firm ones! LOL 00:33:54 oh man. forget about that cleveland social... 00:34:12 Haha..... 00:35:31 Hopefully when those come out I'll have my mail stuff for OpenACS about ready.... 00:35:48 what's that? are you working on a webmail package? 00:36:04 Actually webmail would be the last thing.... 00:36:22 acs-mail extension? 00:36:23 This is more of an ISP type, virtual hosting for email 00:36:45 Something like http://www.inter7.com/vpopmail 00:36:47 what's that? your OACS account merged with email account? 00:37:21 hmm, an oacs admin interface for virtual email domains? 00:37:31 Basically your OACS account would like you run an email domain, mailing list, etc. 00:38:56 what are the benefits? 00:39:14 For me :) Centralized adminstration 00:39:26 well, that's good for us all :) 00:39:28 for hte user? 00:40:06 we have a client that wanted their unix mail passwords synched with their OACS passwords 00:40:07 It is more for an administrator than a user 00:40:18 i don't know how we did it, but i think it may have been via LDAP 00:40:35 (i don't keep up with all the engineering stuff) 00:41:04 but you may want to ping luke about how he did this. seems kinda similar. or just to mention it to him. i know this could come in handy for other projects... so we may be able to offer you some help 00:41:23 LDAP is nice.... 00:41:47 but I pretty much have all my mail servers query postgres for user authentication and such :) 00:42:07 that sounds better 00:42:21 LDAP has always seemed like a bit of a hack to me 00:42:30 like if you can't control all of your users, use LDAP 00:42:42 Well LDAP is nice at times... 00:42:43 or if you have two systems that can't talk to each other, use LDAP 00:42:46 that's nice, but not ideal 00:42:56 Right.... 00:43:10 I'd love to use LDAP more but it just isn't ready... 00:43:46 And I at one time use LDAP extensively, move everything to Postgres and Sybase... 00:43:47 well, isn't LDAP an MS tech? like aren't they the guys pushing it? 00:44:24 Actually Sun and Netscape pushed it, Novell actually does it well and Microsoft has now "invented it" 00:44:29 (btw, my cat just punished my friend's kitten who i'm taking care of. flipped him on his ass and wupped it) 00:44:39 ok, well that's enough 00:44:44 Hah... 00:44:58 if the big guys are pushing it, then that usually means that its incomplete. 00:44:58 My cat is right now thinking about how to steal my scotch... 00:45:02 like, uh, soap 00:45:20 never really uses soap.... 00:45:20 i like the way your cat thinks... 00:45:41 soap seems really cool, but i haven't heard or seen anyone use it 00:45:42 Ummm....that doesn't sound right.....I never used the web SOAP stuff :) 00:46:18 yeah, i've never really used soap, although i've had my mouth washed with it a couple of times... 00:46:19 I just don't have enough time to learn everything. Heck I still write CGI's in C :) 00:46:35 somehow, the API just didn't seem right... 00:47:11 whoa. CGI's in C, huh? 00:48:03 Yep, If I'm using apache..just about everything is still C 00:48:57 when did you start coding? 00:49:28 about 10-12 years ago.... 00:49:50 ah, the golden age. 00:49:55 just kidding :) 00:50:01 Heck, I started on FORTRAN 00:50:10 whoa 00:50:16 you and markd2 00:50:32 you do know about his OpenACS/Fortran project 00:50:37 right? 00:50:49 "I remember wehn we had to walk in the snow uphills both ways just to use the punchcard machine" 00:50:59 OpenACS Fortran, I like it 00:51:07 i only remember ASCII pr0n 00:51:19 mmm... vinod ASCII pr0n 00:51:38 ASCII Porn ruled! 00:51:57 Here is something sick: 00:51:59 http://thephooker.com/~mkovach/cgi.html 00:51:59 C: http://thephooker.com/~mkovach/cgi.html from shagster 00:52:32 wtf? 00:52:50 cgi program in fortran 90 00:52:57 oh man 00:53:18 C: shagster proving his l33t skillZ with a FORTRAN CGI 00:53:18 commented item C 00:53:25 sick bastard 00:53:28 wow 00:53:29 That actually ran on VMS (Alpha with Apache) 00:53:32 what the hell were you trying to prove? 00:53:46 That was a management decision ... LOL 00:53:54 now start doing cgi's in brainfuck (does anybody know this language?) 00:54:19 C: shagster: "That was a management decision ... LOL" 00:54:19 commented item C 00:54:22 could have been worse the other person on the project had to use COBOL 00:55:04 oh man 00:55:11 was it a bank? 00:55:20 who else would be using fortran and cobol? 00:55:21 We had some really stupid managers at the time 00:55:32 AMOCO finicials system 00:56:00 Basically that was the only two comilers on the system 00:56:26 So we had that or DCL 00:57:16 i guess gcc was too expensive for the managers to splurge on? 00:57:39 gcc for Alpha VMS was really ready yet... 00:57:51 ah, ok 00:58:19 Plus, I damn it was kewl 00:58:40 true enough. 00:59:08 So now Im tackling OpenACS and AOLserver's APIs 01:00:10 Plus trying to tackle they best way to host it.. 01:01:14 how do you mean? 01:01:21 you trying to do a hosting biz? 01:01:46 NO, trying to figure out how to survive a lost DB 01:02:00 Postgres repliacation is a bit lacking 01:02:07 yeah, kinda sucks 01:02:15 you mean synch or asynch? 01:02:25 sync 01:02:42 But I have have igured something out for Linux 01:02:56 whachya doin? 01:03:26 Heartbeat, drbd, and pri/sec postgres servers 01:03:40 ah, cool 01:04:03 May not be the best way, but I appears to be working... 01:04:04 do you mind writing up what you do and posting it on the bboards? i know many people have run against this prob as welll... 01:04:18 although replication is slated to be inlcuded in PG soon, AFAIK 01:04:23 Yea, I have that on my list of things to do... 01:04:33 i thought 7.2, but i guess it will be in 7.3 01:04:46 seems like it's the critical thing for the DB to take the next step 01:05:07 Well, since I just PG for all my email system, I need it faster that soon 01:05:23 what do you use for your websites? 01:05:25 Well it is a tough thing to do right and it touches quite a bit 01:05:45 I use postgres mainly 01:06:01 oh, you just use PG for your email 01:06:03 i get it 01:06:14 so do you use PG with IMAP? 01:06:24 Some customers want mysql and if I can't convert them they get mysql 01:06:29 you can store emails in a DB with IMAP, right? 01:06:48 I use courier-imap and qmail, authvchpw does all the authentication 01:07:00 You can, I don't though.... 01:07:41 soo... you store the emails in a db or you do user auth with the db and the emails in IMAP boxes? 01:07:44 Qmail and Maildir are so bulletproof and can't find a benifit it using a slow DB 01:07:53 ah, ok 01:08:12 Email are stored on the filesystemm 01:08:25 Wich is a redudant NFS server 01:09:02 I've actually got three pop/imap server and 4 smtp servers 01:11:20 * shagster checks slashdot 01:13:25 No marriage proposals today 01:14:53 ok guys, i'm going downstairs to listen to some amazing jazz and drink a badly poured guiness 01:14:56 talk to you guys later 01:15:22 Heh..have fun... 01:15:28 have one for me! 01:16:36 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 01:48:11 dlk-gone-home has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:04:00 GEM (~mcmullan@MULTICS.MIT.EDU) has joined #openacs 04:09:48 hey davb, you there? 04:16:23 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 06:15:15 jim (~jim@12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 07:22:17 til (~tils@port-212-202-128-195.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs 09:18:18 jim has quit (Remote closed the connection) 11:05:05 dlk (dlk@walter.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs 11:21:13 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 14:54:27 chump has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:54:47 chump (~chump@alb-24-58-160-41.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 15:00:15 jim (~jim@12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 15:00:36 re. 15:36:41 hi 15:37:05 yo davb 15:45:55 yo jim 15:46:03 hiya talli 15:46:53 I'm trying to figure good ways to fold in my ideas for etp into the package, so I can submit a neat lil patch 15:47:06 jim, how's nsperl coming along? have you looked into denshi's suggestion about nsparrot? 15:47:11 oh yeah?! cool! 15:48:12 from what i've heard, ETP may be changing a bit 15:48:28 I'm using em, but I think I'd wanna present it a different way, and I was wondering if I might get some help in design and coding? 15:49:08 yeah, sure 15:49:11 ping luke 15:49:34 luke@museatech.net 15:50:14 does he come here? 15:50:30 no, but i'll ask him to 15:50:34 nah, he does work instead :) 15:50:37 he's very responsive via email 15:53:10 http://guide.darwinmag.com/technology/web/intranet/index.html 15:53:10 D: http://guide.darwinmag.com/technology/web/intranet/index.html from davb 15:53:18 D:|What is an Intranet 15:53:18 titled item D 15:53:34 D: interesting article, what is a intraet/extranet, why do you need one, how can it save you money 15:53:34 commented item D 15:54:56 jim, what are your ideas 15:55:36 first, I need plain text as well as html... at this point, etp only does html 15:55:39 so, 15:56:15 I wanted to put that link at the bottom of the page where you edit the content, to set the mime type to text or html 15:56:28 or select box :) 15:57:02 I wanted to have that mime type go into the content revision's mime type column 15:58:08 and have the templates use

and

15:58:35 with "and" replaced by the page content :) 15:58:46 that's part one 15:59:57 what're your intentions? 16:00:03 what do you want to do with it? 16:02:23 I have some plain text files I want to put up 16:02:49 maybe some day I'll htmlize them... 16:03:10 and I have them up with a kludged etp template 16:03:33 wanna see? 16:03:40 sure 16:03:46 they're at 12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com:9000/musical 16:04:29 if you are a musician, they can help you :) 16:05:13 vinod (~vinod@207-172-97-250.s250.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 16:05:32 i'm not finding that URL jim 16:06:09 wait, i had it in wrong 16:06:18 jim: cool! 16:06:34 hi vinod 16:06:58 * davb may someday be a musician... 16:07:07 hey everyone! 16:07:18 hey yourself, you two timer 16:07:34 two timer? 16:07:36 davb: the chord lessons presume you can identify intervals 16:07:36 jim, are you in the bay area? 16:07:39 yep 16:07:58 I'm practically underwater :) 16:08:23 nice 16:08:26 oaktown? 16:08:33 i'm from los altos, next to shallow alto 16:08:36 near there, yes :) 16:09:13 why does www.laney.edu go to the CIS lab rather than to laney college's website? 16:09:20 (i went to foothill for a year, btw) 16:09:42 because the cis lab scored that domain name 16:10:08 whoa. and they won't give it to the rest of the school? 16:10:10 and they shouldn't have it, and not only cause they're software pirates in that lab 16:10:48 the rest of the school doesn't understand it rightfully belongs to them 16:11:51 haha 16:11:54 that's amazing 16:12:15 there's a mrtg on it, the lab streams stuff out and fills the whole T1, and won't yield it to the students 16:12:28 laney.edu/mrtg 16:12:29 whoa 16:12:43 instead, they stream MP3s 16:13:03 oh man 16:13:11 our tax dollars at work :( 16:13:17 yes, exactly 16:13:52 every time it troubles me when I'm doing something while a student in that lab, I tell a new person :) 16:14:10 the state of california is probably next, followed by the department head 16:14:20 haha 16:16:10 yep, they're still pretty much maxing out the T1, as we speak 16:19:50 anyways, I don't really want to be reminded of my anger relative to that issue... let's code :) 16:27:06 part two of my idea for etp, is to add a package instance parameter that could be viewed or set by anyone with admin over the package instance object... 16:27:14 or two 16:27:32 one says: content is commentable? 16:27:45 the other says: indexes are commentable? 16:29:12 that sounds like a really cool idea 16:29:18 and I couldn't really decide where to put the comments on indexing pages, so there might be a third package instance param that says: comments go immediately below the content part of the index page, or immediately below the index part of the index page 16:29:34 that's a very cool idea 16:30:36 I rejected the idea that they should ever go -above- the content... (but if yes, then that would mean that we'd need yet another param, for the content template) 16:31:07 that wouldn't really make sense 16:31:17 yes, exactly 16:31:23 it would probably set the precedent for doing something foolish with your webpages 16:32:26 btw, jim, do you mind buying me a couple of lotta tickets? :) 16:32:53 pay ya back after i win 16:33:04 heh, sheesh :) you mean I have to get up outta my aeron? :) 16:33:28 haha. well, if you have an aeron, that means you must already have WON the lottery!!! 16:33:48 nope, I saved up for it 16:33:55 ah. ok. 16:34:26 btw, did you catch my question earlier about nsperl? 16:34:34 have you thought about nsparrot at all? 16:34:36 re: nsparrot? 16:34:44 yeah 16:35:04 I dunno what I wanna do there... 16:35:44 if I get nsperl going to the degree I want, I'd like to see it interface to an oacs data model 16:35:54 or even be a port 16:36:00 that sounds cool 16:36:20 tcl is not your friend (as the bootcamper advice page goes) 16:36:24 but wouldn't parrot be a cool new way of doing it? did you look at parrot at all? 16:36:25 but perl is :) 16:36:33 no 16:36:40 jim: no params for where the comments go, that is what the template is for 16:36:44 http://www.parrotcode.org/faq/ 16:36:45 E: http://www.parrotcode.org/faq/ from talli 16:36:46 * davb catches up... 16:36:51 E: Parrot FAQ 16:36:52 commented item E 16:37:03 E: 1. What is Parrot? 16:37:04