00:02:33 k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs 00:05:53 yo denshi 00:05:56 que pasa? 00:06:04 you pussy out on my bboard challenge? 00:06:05 wimp 00:06:07 sissy 00:06:09 girly man 00:06:31 no, just want you to know that I'm holding the declared cursing and profanity for when you least expect it. 00:06:38 haha 00:07:06 is it cool if i interpret that as, "i am tongue tied and speechless in your massive presence"? 00:07:14 "O, for a muse of fire, to ascend the brightest heaven of offense.." 00:07:17 vinod, follow in, please 00:07:32 vinod's drinking. He can't back you. 00:07:38 s/interpret/interpert 00:07:42 d'oh!1 00:08:36 no biggie. they'll just stick that typo in an RFC and the whole internet will have to use it. 00:08:51 as well they should. 00:09:20 besides ducking my bboard duel, how're things going with you? 00:09:39 ducking nothing! 00:09:57 yeah, well your fire muse seems to be lost at IRC 00:10:00 did michael feldstein already finish it? 00:10:02 poor muse 00:10:10 finish what? 00:10:17 well, shakespeare is truly dead. 00:10:34 so's vinod's love life. 00:10:43 poor shakespeare. lucky women of boston. 00:10:52 MF (you know, that's a nice set of initials), posted a comment that alluded to him finishing the web/db import. 00:10:56 it's no fun when he's not here. 00:11:05 oh, that was michael cleverly 00:11:14 feldstein don't code. or surf 00:11:51 oh, him too. 00:11:59 :) 00:12:24 actually, the import is a subset of some stuff I did at a previous job. 00:12:51 i'm just miffed that the ACS is missing a small piece I need to do it right -- a proxy user system. 00:14:40 I'm now reading OACS "oaks" as Romeo & Juliet: 00:14:52 Talli: My naked weapon is out: quarrel, I will back thee. 00:15:00 Vinod: How! turn thy back and run? 00:15:08 Talli: Fear me not. 00:15:17 Vinod: No, marry; I fear thee! 00:15:44 Talli: 'Tis all one, I will show myself a tyrant: when I have fought with the men, I will be cruel with the maids, and cut off their heads. 00:15:47 i will NOT marry vinod. until he asks, that is 00:15:52 Vinod: The heads of the maids? 00:16:07 Talli: Ay, the heads of the maids, or their maidenheads; take it in what sense thou wilt. 00:16:17 Vinod: They must take it in sense that feel it. 00:16:49 shakespeare was a total crowd-pleaser. 00:17:43 as are you 00:17:48 wow! 00:17:57 where'd #openacs go? 00:18:19 vinod: we're tired of the web, we've decided to become actors. 00:18:32 i'm going to be a ballerina! 00:18:41 he's got the legs for it. 00:19:00 man. 00:19:19 there is a such a low signal to noise ratio in this channel 00:19:24 i blame vinod. denshi? 00:19:31 I blame beer. 00:19:33 signal 00:19:35 signal 00:19:37 signal 00:19:40 denshi: for shame! 00:19:43 there, ya happy now? 00:19:48 get thee to a nunnery! 00:19:57 better, thanks vinod 00:20:14 and thanks for the "drop your monitor to scroll" idea. it worked great. 00:20:28 can i send you the bill for my cast? 00:21:38 you're supposed to drop it on someone else, not yourself! Geeeez - do i need to spell out everything? 00:22:14 drop it on folks like in Yellow Submarine 00:22:22 turn them into little Alexes or something 00:23:22 so talli, to increase the signal, has anyone checked the legality of bringing over web/db? 00:25:57 no, that issue was kinda ignored 00:28:55 I just wonder if the goddamn shitstorm of lawyers that crawl all over a company on acquisition might notice this and take offense. 00:29:24 no, i don't think they mind that they're in a shitstorm. 00:29:31 i think they're born that way 00:29:46 If there's any question, I think we should just wait. OTOH, there is something cool in OACS ("oaks") providing an immediate refuge for aD orphans. 00:30:18 it's not that they mind. its whether one of those lawyers gets off the leash, since there are so many of them called in for an M&A. 00:30:24 doesn't look like that name is gonna win, btw 00:30:55 you're probably right, but i think this isn't such a huge M&A. 00:31:22 rumor has it that it was less than 1MM, and it was probably coordinated by the VCs (greylock) 00:31:29 so it may be pretty clean 00:33:50 okay. the import is pretty simple, but the right way to do it is for the acs to have a proxy user system- so you can import data belonging to users who don't have accounts. When/If they register, they should assume that proxy user identity, and be upgraded to a full user. 00:33:54 I don't think 4.x has this. 00:34:19 you might want to mention that on the bboards. i think someone asks this 00:34:37 maybe it was in a private email. i forget. but either way, it might be worth posting something about it 00:34:54 Reply | 00:34:58 hold on, i fear we are getting on topic here. can someone bring something up that has nothing to do with OACS, or even computers? 00:35:05 oh, thanks k2pts 00:35:09 beat me to it 00:35:15 Woof! 00:35:20 :) 00:42:45 Whoa 00:42:48 Alex remembers Rolf 00:43:07 he probably can't forget that 'leg humping' incident 00:43:23 (and it wasn't alex doing the humping) 00:56:22 k2pts has left #openacs 01:03:07 vinod has left #openacs 01:09:13 talli, besides beer and profanity, what 01:09:18 what's new with you? 01:12:38 enough talk. more coding. 01:12:39 denshi has quit () 01:16:39 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 01:39:18 Hi. 01:39:24 I added a group 01:39:33 I tried to make someone a member 01:39:37 boom :) 01:40:01 is someone available to help me track this down and fix it? :) 01:41:00 I can put some more specifics, well, one more... "statement was not a query returning rows" 01:42:13 I can also try adding someone again, and come up with more exact results 01:44:37 davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-161-172.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 01:44:50 heya davb 01:44:53 hi 01:45:10 might you be available to track down a kernel problem?" 01:45:34 er,, help * and contrib to fix? 01:46:10 problem is... I can create a group, np... but adding a user to that group fails 01:46:12 acs-kernel I assume 01:46:23 yes 01:46:45 ah, I haven't delved into the groups yet. But if you send the appropriate error log I can look. 01:47:06 ok, I'm setting up a situation now 01:48:50 ok, it's complaining about types of objects 01:49:18 maybe a little understanding is in order: 01:50:04 I want to create a group to hold users that are allowed to do/see certain things... 01:50:20 would I create a group of type "group"? 01:53:44 ahh :) 01:54:53 OK, I'm beginning to understand: the graph edges you add to make a user a member of a group have typed vertexes 01:55:46 (I can't create a thing of type "group" and add a user to it, I have to add a thing of type "application group" and add users to that) 01:57:03 my browsers like to crash :/ 02:02:02 ok, sorry I was making nachos 02:03:01 fun which browser? 02:04:17 I think you need a "group type" maybe.. 02:04:31 did you ever read ACS Permissions Tediously Explained? I haven yet. 02:07:59 I might have... 02:09:21 the groups/permissions system is another of the over engineered little documented featues of OACS. They put in every possible option. Unfortunately 90% of applications don't need all that :) 02:10:33 what I understand so far, is that being part of a group is represented as a graph edge, with vertexes at the endpoints of that edge being the group object and the other is the thing being made a part of that group 02:11:35 I'll take your word for it. I think I need to learn that stuff one of these days when I go for my CS degree :) 02:13:12 well, it's pretty simple... they have this thing called a "relation", which is a row in a table that might be named relations... 02:13:27 among other things, it has 2 object ids 02:13:50 one for either end of the graph edge 02:14:22 then you can make aux tables if you want the edges to have parameters 02:15:08 ok. 02:15:41 the acs permissions tediously explained looks pretty good, I am almost understanding some of it. It does NOT directly relate the the user interface unfortunately :) 02:15:48 http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/permissions-notes-vadim.html?version_id=229 02:15:48 A: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/permissions-notes-vadim.html?version_id=229 from davb 02:28:13 what we need, besides a rewrite of the groups/users interface, is a little doc on hwo to do common tasks with it. 02:29:13 yeah, the task I was trying to do was fairly common... 02:29:18 new problem... 02:30:35 I revoked inherited permissions for a site node, gave some permissions to the group, added a new user (for testing) not part of that group, he could see the node 02:31:42 that is not good. are you sure you removed the right permissions? 02:32:32 not sure anymore... but I thought that I removed all perms 02:34:56 but not only can this user (Foo Bar ) -see- the site, he can also edit the pages 02:35:29 * jim tries with a different application 02:36:04 ok something is wrong. 02:36:21 I wonder if there is a default or something that is doing that. 02:36:23 (thing is, Foo doesn't see the admin link :) 02:38:51 it strongly looks like the permission system is not being used 02:38:58 etp? 02:39:16 you can set the ETP permissions with the etp interface. 02:39:23 I think its per application. 02:39:29 could be 02:42:08 ok, if you're not logged in, you can't see the link 02:42:57 so registered users can, but not "the_public" 02:43:10 yep 02:45:53 it would be really nice to have that level of control... 02:46:33 I don't have a copy of ETP running right now, did you look at the permissions from there? 02:46:40 I'll look into that over the next while 02:47:55 ohh, I found it 02:48:27 my bad :) 02:48:39 regd users had admin :) 02:49:43 ahh :) 02:49:54 removed that, no more tangles :) 02:50:02 cool 02:53:48 CSari (~CSari@pm202.isomedia.com) has joined #openacs 02:54:28 this is good, it works as advertised... the one wrinkle is the UI doesn't give a friendly message when the wrong type of thing is added to a group 02:55:08 yeah, it should not let you do it wrong :) 02:55:13 hi CSari 02:55:17 Hello 02:57:23 what perm does edit-this-page need to let editing? 02:57:51 I am not sure. It might create its own. Otherwise I suspect write 02:58:34 hey cathy! 02:58:46 welcome 02:59:04 it's nice to have a woman around for a change. we'll have to behave better 02:59:09 hello talli, and thanks... i finally got around to peeking my head in here. 02:59:15 oh please no, don't stop on my account! :) 02:59:28 well, ok... you asked for it 02:59:41 trust me.. years at caltech. i can take it. 02:59:52 * jim shoots talli with a rubber 02:59:53 band 03:00:24 talli: if you didn't scare her away, nothing anyone else does will 03:00:43 vinod (~vinod@207-172-216-123.s631.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 03:00:53 except maybe that 03:03:36 brb 03:03:37 davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.5 [Mozilla rv:0.9.8/20020204]") 03:03:49 ok, etp needs to hide "set permissions" and "site map" links from nonadmins 03:04:19 hey vinod 03:04:22 there's a girl in here 03:04:32 careful, make sure not to slobber as much 03:04:42 * vinod puts his pants back on 03:04:54 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.173.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 03:04:56 wow 03:04:58 : groans 03:04:59 what a gentleman 03:05:05 :-) 03:05:26 hi CSari - we tend to shrink to talli's level here, sorry 03:05:31 vinod: ok, try again, this time right side up, inside in :) 03:05:48 * markd2 doesn't want to know 03:05:58 hey now. i take offense to using the term "shrink" in the same sentence as my hallowed name 03:06:27 talli: so you're not in therapy? :) 03:07:00 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 03:07:04 no, i am. but i'm not worried about that shrinkage 03:07:42 see CSari, we're a bit depraved here. sorry bout that 03:09:02 sheesh, I misread that as "we've depraved her"... a window covered the e :) 03:10:05 no, that's usually denshi's approach, but he's not here now. 03:13:42 jim: it looks like ETP has several of its own permissions... 03:14:26 or maybe not... 03:14:58 StaunchRzolf (~rolf@above.badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs 03:15:48 StaunchRzolf is now known as estanchier 03:15:51 hi. 03:15:57 hello estanchier 03:16:06 hello talli. 03:16:08 are you related to the popular rzolf of FC fame? 03:16:13 yes 03:16:31 um. what's the deal with Staunch on FC. 03:16:40 jim: upon further review, it uses the "write" permission to determine who to offer an "edit this page" link. 03:16:57 i hear he's quite a guy. did he have anything to do with the unfortunate demise of that solid company? 03:16:57 davb: discovered that :) 03:17:55 well 90% of the company's cheese budget went directly to his thighs. 03:18:01 as one person with whom i spoke said about aD (after reading the FC forums), "i'm just glad i didn't work there" 03:18:22 working there in the early days was a fantastic experience 03:19:42 i think just about any failed startup would have a similar demise. aD just was more successful than most, so they have more bad stories 03:20:01 it was also a lot more public (alas not traded) than others 03:20:29 i imagine it was a lot of fun, but those forums are nasty 03:20:36 also the insanity was half the fun. 03:20:45 jim: you were working with wp-slim? 03:20:47 FC as a catharsis 03:20:47 then again, the interesting people are those that weren't necessarily around at the end 03:20:51 or a staunch catharsis 03:21:03 i mean, think if we only had stories like "oh yeah dude. that self-join you did in the workflow module was sick!" 03:21:09 haha 03:21:11 davb: yeah, I was... then I dipped into learning cr 03:21:39 ok. just wondering. I have to submit those patches still to fix it. 03:21:50 what i think is pathetic is that there aren't enough stories about how judy slept with jimmy after sherrie dumped bobby 03:22:09 those are usually the appropriate stories for FC. who bonked who in the broom closet 03:22:26 but then... do MIT nerds bonk? 03:22:46 cause if I'm gonna straighten out the drop script (btw, you might have already found the solution, with that context_id/acs_object trigger thing) 03:22:47 well, they come to me for the morning after pill, so ... yes 03:22:57 well there werent really any women, and we didn't have a provincetown or key west office 03:23:11 so i'm guessing there wasn't really too much bonking. 03:23:25 vinod, you really need to stop sleeping with the MIT undergrads. 03:24:02 well, the grad students are too smart 03:24:14 :) 03:24:58 * jim tries to decide if filing a bug is gonna be worth it, might not get any play... 03:26:55 * estanchier thanks markD for the etymology of Staunch. 03:27:08 * markd2 thanks SmarterChild 03:27:12 heh 03:27:21 Rodolfo Estanchier. 03:28:26 CSari has quit () 03:29:10 argh. I must also fix the oracle version... 03:31:38 so. 03:31:44 like. 03:31:46 well... 03:31:50 what's up? 03:32:17 * vinod is enjoying a home-brewed beer 03:33:01 ok, so am I correct in saying that wimpy point presentations should be children of the package instance they are created under. So if more than one is mounted they can't mess with other instances presentations? 03:33:52 actually the way it is written now, ANY package can mess with wp presenations... 03:35:04 ok. i have to concentrate on hitting reload on f----dcompany.com for a couple more hours 03:35:10 see you later. 03:35:17 estanchier has quit ("estanchier has no reason") 03:35:23 davb: yeah, seems that they should inherit permissions from the package they're assoc with 03:36:00 ok, then it is _wrong_ the way it is written. the parent_id of the acs_objects for presentations is -100 03:36:41 It is really annoying also that DonB has his intials in almost every packge.. and they are the same as mine... :) 03:36:53 I keep seeing these comments and going, that wasn't me... 03:36:58 talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:36:59 * vinod suggests that davb write a flame letter to donb 03:37:03 heh. 03:37:14 he was there first... 03:37:20 haha 03:37:44 ok I will have to fix wp for oracle and postgresql and submit patches... tomorrow 03:38:53 talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 03:53:01 well that is enough for one day... 03:58:58 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 04:37:57 vinod has quit ("changing universes") 04:45:45 markd2 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:17:42 docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-183-205.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 13:02:17 til (~tils@port-212-202-128-195.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs 13:33:24 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 13:43:39 davb has quit () 13:49:41 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 14:02:11 markd2 (~markd2@r-41.26.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 14:07:19 jim has quit ("bb") 14:39:59 markd2 has quit ("switching computers") 14:40:56 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.26.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 15:33:09 markd2 has quit ("errands") 16:08:39 Starets (~petej@home.clickvision.com) has joined #openacs 16:10:15 Starets has left #openacs 16:11:25 davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:12:09 Starets (~petej@home.clickvision.com) has joined #openACS 16:14:17 Starets has left #openACS 16:14:21 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 16:16:29 davb has changed the topic to: OpenACS: Free Web Toolkit | http://openacs.org 16:23:56 http://www.samsungcontact.com/press.html 16:23:56 B: http://www.samsungcontact.com/press.html from davb 16:24:08 B:|Samsung Contact Press Release 16:24:08 titled item B 16:24:20 B: Samsung licenses OpenMail from HP 16:24:20 commented item B 16:36:48 davb has quit () 16:48:28 davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs 16:49:29 Starets (~Starets@home.clickvision.com) has joined #openacs 16:58:35 Starets has left #openacs 17:00:35 Starets (~Starets@home.clickvision.com) has joined #openacs 17:20:51 Starets has quit (Remote closed the connection) 17:31:41 Starets (~petej@home.clickvision.com) has joined #openACS 17:35:25 Starets has left #openACS 17:38:40 Starets (~petej@home.clickvision.com) has joined #openACS 17:41:37 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.26.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 17:48:00 wheeeeee 17:49:48 anybody alive here? 17:49:53 barely 17:49:53 whoa 17:50:02 dlk, are you alive? 17:50:03 What version of openacs is the recommende one? 17:50:04 hi 17:50:09 OACS 4 17:50:16 yep. 17:50:23 * dlk is almost not alive - life in frustation is not nice... 17:50:25 OpenACS/Fortran 17:50:28 OACS4 17:50:30 oki 17:50:54 markd2, does OpenACS/Fortran work on Vax? 17:51:01 quite well 17:51:04 but it has to be VMS 4 or earlier 17:51:45 killer! 17:52:02 i just got a 128K ROM for my system. it's gonna ROCK! 17:52:25 suh-wheet! 17:52:35 I need to get my 8" floppies hook up so Ican do backups 17:52:49 how is the quality of the the oracle database driver? (I am assuming that there is such a thing...) 17:53:43 assuming you've got Oracle 6 on your VAX, it works OK 17:54:07 and I f I use use Solaris/Linux? 17:54:26 and your hamster is happy to run on his treadmill to power your cooling system 17:54:37 ??? 17:54:39 DECTape roolz! 17:54:46 dlk, i've heard nothing bad about the oracle driver 17:54:50 for solaris/linux, the oracle driver works fine 17:54:54 people are using it quite extensively 17:55:48 ok, sorry for being total newbie here: which of the OACS-4 should I download? There are three listed here http://openacs.org/sdm/package-releases.tcl?package_id=9, where the stable (non-beta version) is the oldest one... 17:56:07 that one is, in fact, the crappiest one 17:56:10 go with the latest one 17:56:21 latest in date? 17:56:23 ok 17:56:24 yes 17:56:28 most recent 17:56:37 davb, which should he choose? 17:56:38 thanks :) 17:56:40 np 17:56:46 do you have to use oracle? 17:56:55 I use the CVS 17:56:57 yes. 17:57:12 lately, i think the PG version may be slightly more advanced simply because the community seems to use it more 17:57:13 or download a nightly tarball. its pretty stable. 17:57:30 but most of the companies in the community are actually building Oracle sites 17:57:32 I am gonna test to port a portal thing from "another" cms/appserver thingie to sse how hard it is... 17:57:47 interesting. 17:57:55 well, actually, the portal system in the current OACS might not be so hot 17:58:16 the new portal module should be released in a couple to a few weeks from now, and it should be pretty good 17:58:19 no matter, we built it our selves... 17:58:27 oh, ok 17:58:30 I went into production yesterday ;) 17:58:42 ah, ok. what's the link? may you share? 17:58:45 so I'll have to build my slef anyway :) 17:58:57 no it is not official yet. 17:59:09 it is a student porta though... 17:59:27 if you're interetsed in a portal system for OACS, speak with Neophytos who hangs out here as k2pts 17:59:30 I need to compare openacs to the "other" appserver (open source too) 17:59:34 k 17:59:50 what's the "other"? zope perchance? 17:59:57 JBoss? 18:00:06 I like the "other" appserver way of buidlign things but i need to see how openacs works too 18:00:08 Zope. 18:00:13 arrr!!!! 18:00:16 evil zope. 18:00:21 zope nice. 18:00:23 acs nice. 18:00:26 me like 18:00:27 :) 18:00:52 they're very different in architecture. i only "arrr!!!" zope because it's been a pain in my behind as the sales guy. 18:01:04 i hear it works nicely, but i also hear it can be a total mess 18:01:10 I wnat to see how acs works anyway... and i also need to compare zope and acs. 18:01:49 it can. I dunno if buidling things in oacs is as easy as in zope. 18:01:50 oacs wins 18:02:03 convince me:-) 18:02:05 what are you trying to build? 18:02:27 a student portal. with a lot on non-portal things. 18:02:31 i'm not really that religious. this channel just makes me a little crazy 18:02:42 a lot of the maintenace has to be made by non-techie poeple 18:02:45 what kind of student portal? 18:02:47 * markd2 sprinkles holy water on talli again 18:02:55 heard of e-government? 18:03:17 * talli screams and burns, damns markd2 to hell for eternity 18:03:17 think of it as e-higher education. ot at least one step closer. 18:03:24 do you know of dotLRN? 18:03:32 openacs is nice because all the user management and stuff is all pre-built. 18:03:41 it is really an LMS. Admin stiff and neato features for studetns and teachers... 18:03:55