IRC log of openacs on 2002-02-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:02:33 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs
00:05:53 [talli]
yo denshi
00:05:56 [talli]
que pasa?
00:06:04 [talli]
you pussy out on my bboard challenge?
00:06:05 [talli]
wimp
00:06:07 [talli]
sissy
00:06:09 [talli]
girly man
00:06:31 [denshi]
no, just want you to know that I'm holding the declared cursing and profanity for when you least expect it.
00:06:38 [talli]
haha
00:07:06 [talli]
is it cool if i interpret that as, "i am tongue tied and speechless in your massive presence"?
00:07:14 [denshi]
"O, for a muse of fire, to ascend the brightest heaven of offense.."
00:07:17 [talli]
vinod, follow in, please
00:07:32 [denshi]
vinod's drinking. He can't back you.
00:07:38 [talli]
s/interpret/interpert
00:07:42 [talli]
d'oh!1
00:08:36 [denshi]
no biggie. they'll just stick that typo in an RFC and the whole internet will have to use it.
00:08:51 [talli]
as well they should.
00:09:20 [talli]
besides ducking my bboard duel, how're things going with you?
00:09:39 [denshi]
ducking nothing!
00:09:57 [talli]
yeah, well your fire muse seems to be lost at IRC
00:10:00 [denshi]
did michael feldstein already finish it?
00:10:02 [talli]
poor muse
00:10:10 [talli]
finish what?
00:10:17 [denshi]
well, shakespeare is truly dead.
00:10:34 [talli]
so's vinod's love life.
00:10:43 [talli]
poor shakespeare. lucky women of boston.
00:10:52 [denshi]
MF (you know, that's a nice set of initials), posted a comment that alluded to him finishing the web/db import.
00:10:56 [talli]
it's no fun when he's not here.
00:11:05 [talli]
oh, that was michael cleverly
00:11:14 [talli]
feldstein don't code. or surf
00:11:51 [denshi]
oh, him too.
00:11:59 [talli]
:)
00:12:24 [denshi]
actually, the import is a subset of some stuff I did at a previous job.
00:12:51 [denshi]
i'm just miffed that the ACS is missing a small piece I need to do it right -- a proxy user system.
00:14:40 [denshi]
I'm now reading OACS "oaks" as Romeo & Juliet:
00:14:52 [denshi]
Talli: My naked weapon is out: quarrel, I will back thee.
00:15:00 [denshi]
Vinod: How! turn thy back and run?
00:15:08 [denshi]
Talli: Fear me not.
00:15:17 [denshi]
Vinod: No, marry; I fear thee!
00:15:44 [denshi]
Talli: 'Tis all one, I will show myself a tyrant: when I have fought with the men, I will be cruel with the maids, and cut off their heads.
00:15:47 [talli]
i will NOT marry vinod. until he asks, that is
00:15:52 [denshi]
Vinod: The heads of the maids?
00:16:07 [denshi]
Talli: Ay, the heads of the maids, or their maidenheads; take it in what sense thou wilt.
00:16:17 [denshi]
Vinod: They must take it in sense that feel it.
00:16:49 [denshi]
shakespeare was a total crowd-pleaser.
00:17:43 [talli]
as are you
00:17:48 [vinod]
wow!
00:17:57 [vinod]
where'd #openacs go?
00:18:19 [denshi]
vinod: we're tired of the web, we've decided to become actors.
00:18:32 [talli]
i'm going to be a ballerina!
00:18:41 [denshi]
he's got the legs for it.
00:19:00 [talli]
man.
00:19:19 [talli]
there is a such a low signal to noise ratio in this channel
00:19:24 [talli]
i blame vinod. denshi?
00:19:31 [denshi]
I blame beer.
00:19:33 [vinod]
signal
00:19:35 [vinod]
signal
00:19:37 [vinod]
signal
00:19:40 [talli]
denshi: for shame!
00:19:43 [vinod]
there, ya happy now?
00:19:48 [talli]
get thee to a nunnery!
00:19:57 [talli]
better, thanks vinod
00:20:14 [talli]
and thanks for the "drop your monitor to scroll" idea. it worked great.
00:20:28 [talli]
can i send you the bill for my cast?
00:21:38 [vinod]
you're supposed to drop it on someone else, not yourself! Geeeez - do i need to spell out everything?
00:22:14 [markd2]
drop it on folks like in Yellow Submarine
00:22:22 [markd2]
turn them into little Alexes or something
00:23:22 [denshi]
so talli, to increase the signal, has anyone checked the legality of bringing over web/db?
00:25:57 [talli]
no, that issue was kinda ignored
00:28:55 [denshi]
I just wonder if the goddamn shitstorm of lawyers that crawl all over a company on acquisition might notice this and take offense.
00:29:24 [talli]
no, i don't think they mind that they're in a shitstorm.
00:29:31 [talli]
i think they're born that way
00:29:46 [denshi]
If there's any question, I think we should just wait. OTOH, there is something cool in OACS ("oaks") providing an immediate refuge for aD orphans.
00:30:18 [denshi]
it's not that they mind. its whether one of those lawyers gets off the leash, since there are so many of them called in for an M&A.
00:30:24 [talli]
doesn't look like that name is gonna win, btw
00:30:55 [talli]
you're probably right, but i think this isn't such a huge M&A.
00:31:22 [talli]
rumor has it that it was less than 1MM, and it was probably coordinated by the VCs (greylock)
00:31:29 [talli]
so it may be pretty clean
00:33:50 [denshi]
okay. the import is pretty simple, but the right way to do it is for the acs to have a proxy user system- so you can import data belonging to users who don't have accounts. When/If they register, they should assume that proxy user identity, and be upgraded to a full user.
00:33:54 [denshi]
I don't think 4.x has this.
00:34:19 [talli]
you might want to mention that on the bboards. i think someone asks this
00:34:37 [talli]
maybe it was in a private email. i forget. but either way, it might be worth posting something about it
00:34:54 [k2pts]
Reply |
00:34:58 [talli]
hold on, i fear we are getting on topic here. can someone bring something up that has nothing to do with OACS, or even computers?
00:35:05 [talli]
oh, thanks k2pts
00:35:09 [talli]
beat me to it
00:35:15 [denshi]
Woof!
00:35:20 [k2pts]
:)
00:42:45 [markd2]
Whoa
00:42:48 [markd2]
Alex remembers Rolf
00:43:07 [markd2]
he probably can't forget that 'leg humping' incident
00:43:23 [markd2]
(and it wasn't alex doing the humping)
00:56:22 [k2pts]
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01:03:07 [vinod]
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01:09:13 [denshi]
talli, besides beer and profanity, what
01:09:18 [denshi]
what's new with you?
01:12:38 [denshi]
enough talk. more coding.
01:12:39 [denshi]
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01:39:18 [jim]
Hi.
01:39:24 [jim]
I added a group
01:39:33 [jim]
I tried to make someone a member
01:39:37 [jim]
boom :)
01:40:01 [jim]
is someone available to help me track this down and fix it? :)
01:41:00 [jim]
I can put some more specifics, well, one more... "statement was not a query returning rows"
01:42:13 [jim]
I can also try adding someone again, and come up with more exact results
01:44:37 [davb]
davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-161-172.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
01:44:50 [jim]
heya davb
01:44:53 [davb]
hi
01:45:10 [jim]
might you be available to track down a kernel problem?"
01:45:34 [jim]
er,, help * and contrib to fix?
01:46:10 [jim]
problem is... I can create a group, np... but adding a user to that group fails
01:46:12 [davb]
acs-kernel I assume
01:46:23 [jim]
yes
01:46:45 [davb]
ah, I haven't delved into the groups yet. But if you send the appropriate error log I can look.
01:47:06 [jim]
ok, I'm setting up a situation now
01:48:50 [jim]
ok, it's complaining about types of objects
01:49:18 [jim]
maybe a little understanding is in order:
01:50:04 [jim]
I want to create a group to hold users that are allowed to do/see certain things...
01:50:20 [jim]
would I create a group of type "group"?
01:53:44 [jim]
ahh :)
01:54:53 [jim]
OK, I'm beginning to understand: the graph edges you add to make a user a member of a group have typed vertexes
01:55:46 [jim]
(I can't create a thing of type "group" and add a user to it, I have to add a thing of type "application group" and add users to that)
01:57:03 [jim]
my browsers like to crash :/
02:02:02 [davb]
ok, sorry I was making nachos
02:03:01 [davb]
fun which browser?
02:04:17 [davb]
I think you need a "group type" maybe..
02:04:31 [davb]
did you ever read ACS Permissions Tediously Explained? I haven yet.
02:07:59 [jim]
I might have...
02:09:21 [davb]
the groups/permissions system is another of the over engineered little documented featues of OACS. They put in every possible option. Unfortunately 90% of applications don't need all that :)
02:10:33 [jim]
what I understand so far, is that being part of a group is represented as a graph edge, with vertexes at the endpoints of that edge being the group object and the other is the thing being made a part of that group
02:11:35 [davb]
I'll take your word for it. I think I need to learn that stuff one of these days when I go for my CS degree :)
02:13:12 [jim]
well, it's pretty simple... they have this thing called a "relation", which is a row in a table that might be named relations...
02:13:27 [jim]
among other things, it has 2 object ids
02:13:50 [jim]
one for either end of the graph edge
02:14:22 [jim]
then you can make aux tables if you want the edges to have parameters
02:15:08 [davb]
ok.
02:15:41 [davb]
the acs permissions tediously explained looks pretty good, I am almost understanding some of it. It does NOT directly relate the the user interface unfortunately :)
02:15:48 [davb]
http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/permissions-notes-vadim.html?version_id=229
02:15:48 [chump]
A: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/permissions-notes-vadim.html?version_id=229 from davb
02:28:13 [davb]
what we need, besides a rewrite of the groups/users interface, is a little doc on hwo to do common tasks with it.
02:29:13 [jim]
yeah, the task I was trying to do was fairly common...
02:29:18 [jim]
new problem...
02:30:35 [jim]
I revoked inherited permissions for a site node, gave some permissions to the group, added a new user (for testing) not part of that group, he could see the node
02:31:42 [davb]
that is not good. are you sure you removed the right permissions?
02:32:32 [jim]
not sure anymore... but I thought that I removed all perms
02:34:56 [jim]
but not only can this user (Foo Bar <foo@bar.com>) -see- the site, he can also edit the pages
02:35:29 [jim]
* jim tries with a different application
02:36:04 [davb]
ok something is wrong.
02:36:21 [davb]
I wonder if there is a default or something that is doing that.
02:36:23 [jim]
(thing is, Foo doesn't see the admin link :)
02:38:51 [jim]
it strongly looks like the permission system is not being used
02:38:58 [davb]
etp?
02:39:16 [davb]
you can set the ETP permissions with the etp interface.
02:39:23 [davb]
I think its per application.
02:39:29 [jim]
could be
02:42:08 [jim]
ok, if you're not logged in, you can't see the link
02:42:57 [davb]
so registered users can, but not "the_public"
02:43:10 [jim]
yep
02:45:53 [jim]
it would be really nice to have that level of control...
02:46:33 [davb]
I don't have a copy of ETP running right now, did you look at the permissions from there?
02:46:40 [jim]
I'll look into that over the next while
02:47:55 [jim]
ohh, I found it
02:48:27 [jim]
my bad :)
02:48:39 [jim]
regd users had admin :)
02:49:43 [jim]
ahh :)
02:49:54 [jim]
removed that, no more tangles :)
02:50:02 [davb]
cool
02:53:48 [CSari]
CSari (~CSari@pm202.isomedia.com) has joined #openacs
02:54:28 [jim]
this is good, it works as advertised... the one wrinkle is the UI doesn't give a friendly message when the wrong type of thing is added to a group
02:55:08 [davb]
yeah, it should not let you do it wrong :)
02:55:13 [davb]
hi CSari
02:55:17 [CSari]
Hello
02:57:23 [jim]
what perm does edit-this-page need to let editing?
02:57:51 [davb]
I am not sure. It might create its own. Otherwise I suspect write
02:58:34 [talli]
hey cathy!
02:58:46 [talli]
welcome
02:59:04 [talli]
it's nice to have a woman around for a change. we'll have to behave better
02:59:09 [CSari]
hello talli, and thanks... i finally got around to peeking my head in here.
02:59:15 [CSari]
oh please no, don't stop on my account! :)
02:59:28 [talli]
well, ok... you asked for it
02:59:41 [CSari]
trust me.. years at caltech. i can take it.
02:59:52 [jim]
* jim shoots talli with a rubber
02:59:53 [jim]
band
03:00:24 [davb]
talli: if you didn't scare her away, nothing anyone else does will
03:00:43 [vinod]
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03:00:53 [davb]
except maybe that
03:03:36 [davb]
brb
03:03:37 [davb]
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03:03:49 [jim]
ok, etp needs to hide "set permissions" and "site map" links from nonadmins
03:04:19 [talli]
hey vinod
03:04:22 [talli]
there's a girl in here
03:04:32 [talli]
careful, make sure not to slobber as much
03:04:42 [vinod]
* vinod puts his pants back on
03:04:54 [markd2]
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03:04:56 [talli]
wow
03:04:58 [CSari]
: groans
03:04:59 [talli]
what a gentleman
03:05:05 [vinod]
:-)
03:05:26 [vinod]
hi CSari - we tend to shrink to talli's level here, sorry
03:05:31 [jim]
vinod: ok, try again, this time right side up, inside in :)
03:05:48 [markd2]
* markd2 doesn't want to know
03:05:58 [talli]
hey now. i take offense to using the term "shrink" in the same sentence as my hallowed name
03:06:27 [jim]
talli: so you're not in therapy? :)
03:07:00 [davb]
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03:07:04 [talli]
no, i am. but i'm not worried about that shrinkage
03:07:42 [talli]
see CSari, we're a bit depraved here. sorry bout that
03:09:02 [jim]
sheesh, I misread that as "we've depraved her"... a window covered the e :)
03:10:05 [talli]
no, that's usually denshi's approach, but he's not here now.
03:13:42 [davb]
jim: it looks like ETP has several of its own permissions...
03:14:26 [davb]
or maybe not...
03:14:58 [StaunchRzolf]
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03:15:48 [StaunchRzolf]
StaunchRzolf is now known as estanchier
03:15:51 [estanchier]
hi.
03:15:57 [talli]
hello estanchier
03:16:06 [estanchier]
hello talli.
03:16:08 [talli]
are you related to the popular rzolf of FC fame?
03:16:13 [estanchier]
yes
03:16:31 [estanchier]
um. what's the deal with Staunch on FC.
03:16:40 [davb]
jim: upon further review, it uses the "write" permission to determine who to offer an "edit this page" link.
03:16:57 [talli]
i hear he's quite a guy. did he have anything to do with the unfortunate demise of that solid company?
03:16:57 [jim]
davb: discovered that :)
03:17:55 [estanchier]
well 90% of the company's cheese budget went directly to his thighs.
03:18:01 [talli]
as one person with whom i spoke said about aD (after reading the FC forums), "i'm just glad i didn't work there"
03:18:22 [markd2]
working there in the early days was a fantastic experience
03:19:42 [vinod]
i think just about any failed startup would have a similar demise. aD just was more successful than most, so they have more bad stories
03:20:01 [markd2]
it was also a lot more public (alas not traded) than others
03:20:29 [talli]
i imagine it was a lot of fun, but those forums are nasty
03:20:36 [estanchier]
also the insanity was half the fun.
03:20:45 [davb]
jim: you were working with wp-slim?
03:20:47 [markd2]
FC as a catharsis
03:20:47 [talli]
then again, the interesting people are those that weren't necessarily around at the end
03:20:51 [markd2]
or a staunch catharsis
03:21:03 [estanchier]
i mean, think if we only had stories like "oh yeah dude. that self-join you did in the workflow module was sick!"
03:21:09 [vinod]
haha
03:21:11 [jim]
davb: yeah, I was... then I dipped into learning cr
03:21:39 [davb]
ok. just wondering. I have to submit those patches still to fix it.
03:21:50 [talli]
what i think is pathetic is that there aren't enough stories about how judy slept with jimmy after sherrie dumped bobby
03:22:09 [talli]
those are usually the appropriate stories for FC. who bonked who in the broom closet
03:22:26 [talli]
but then... do MIT nerds bonk?
03:22:46 [jim]
cause if I'm gonna straighten out the drop script (btw, you might have already found the solution, with that context_id/acs_object trigger thing)
03:22:47 [vinod]
well, they come to me for the morning after pill, so ... yes
03:22:57 [estanchier]
well there werent really any women, and we didn't have a provincetown or key west office
03:23:11 [estanchier]
so i'm guessing there wasn't really too much bonking.
03:23:25 [talli]
vinod, you really need to stop sleeping with the MIT undergrads.
03:24:02 [vinod]
well, the grad students are too smart
03:24:14 [talli]
:)
03:24:58 [jim]
* jim tries to decide if filing a bug is gonna be worth it, might not get any play...
03:26:55 [estanchier]
* estanchier thanks markD for the etymology of Staunch.
03:27:08 [markd2]
* markd2 thanks SmarterChild
03:27:12 [estanchier]
heh
03:27:21 [estanchier]
Rodolfo Estanchier.
03:28:26 [CSari]
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03:29:10 [davb]
argh. I must also fix the oracle version...
03:31:38 [estanchier]
so.
03:31:44 [estanchier]
like.
03:31:46 [estanchier]
well...
03:31:50 [estanchier]
what's up?
03:32:17 [vinod]
* vinod is enjoying a home-brewed beer
03:33:01 [davb]
ok, so am I correct in saying that wimpy point presentations should be children of the package instance they are created under. So if more than one is mounted they can't mess with other instances presentations?
03:33:52 [davb]
actually the way it is written now, ANY package can mess with wp presenations...
03:35:04 [estanchier]
ok. i have to concentrate on hitting reload on f----dcompany.com for a couple more hours
03:35:10 [estanchier]
see you later.
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03:35:23 [vinod]
davb: yeah, seems that they should inherit permissions from the package they're assoc with
03:36:00 [davb]
ok, then it is _wrong_ the way it is written. the parent_id of the acs_objects for presentations is -100
03:36:41 [davb]
It is really annoying also that DonB has his intials in almost every packge.. and they are the same as mine... :)
03:36:53 [davb]
I keep seeing these comments and going, that wasn't me...
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03:36:59 [vinod]
* vinod suggests that davb write a flame letter to donb
03:37:03 [davb]
heh.
03:37:14 [davb]
he was there first...
03:37:20 [vinod]
haha
03:37:44 [davb]
ok I will have to fix wp for oracle and postgresql and submit patches... tomorrow
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03:53:01 [davb]
well that is enough for one day...
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16:16:29 [davb]
davb has changed the topic to: OpenACS: Free Web Toolkit | http://openacs.org
16:23:56 [davb]
http://www.samsungcontact.com/press.html
16:23:56 [chump]
B: http://www.samsungcontact.com/press.html from davb
16:24:08 [davb]
B:|Samsung Contact Press Release
16:24:08 [chump]
titled item B
16:24:20 [davb]
B: Samsung licenses OpenMail from HP
16:24:20 [chump]
commented item B
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17:48:00 [markd2]
wheeeeee
17:49:48 [dlk]
anybody alive here?
17:49:53 [markd2]
barely
17:49:53 [talli]
whoa
17:50:02 [talli]
dlk, are you alive?
17:50:03 [dlk]
What version of openacs is the recommende one?
17:50:04 [davb]
hi
17:50:09 [talli]
OACS 4
17:50:16 [davb]
yep.
17:50:23 [dlk]
* dlk is almost not alive - life in frustation is not nice...
17:50:25 [markd2]
OpenACS/Fortran
17:50:28 [dlk]
OACS4
17:50:30 [dlk]
oki
17:50:54 [talli]
markd2, does OpenACS/Fortran work on Vax?
17:51:01 [markd2]
quite well
17:51:04 [markd2]
but it has to be VMS 4 or earlier
17:51:45 [talli]
killer!
17:52:02 [talli]
i just got a 128K ROM for my system. it's gonna ROCK!
17:52:25 [markd2]
suh-wheet!
17:52:35 [markd2]
I need to get my 8" floppies hook up so Ican do backups
17:52:49 [dlk]
how is the quality of the the oracle database driver? (I am assuming that there is such a thing...)
17:53:43 [markd2]
assuming you've got Oracle 6 on your VAX, it works OK
17:54:07 [dlk]
and I f I use use Solaris/Linux?
17:54:26 [talli]
and your hamster is happy to run on his treadmill to power your cooling system
17:54:37 [dlk]
???
17:54:39 [Starets]
DECTape roolz!
17:54:46 [talli]
dlk, i've heard nothing bad about the oracle driver
17:54:50 [markd2]
for solaris/linux, the oracle driver works fine
17:54:54 [talli]
people are using it quite extensively
17:55:48 [dlk]
ok, sorry for being total newbie here: which of the OACS-4 should I download? There are three listed here http://openacs.org/sdm/package-releases.tcl?package_id=9, where the stable (non-beta version) is the oldest one...
17:56:07 [talli]
that one is, in fact, the crappiest one
17:56:10 [talli]
go with the latest one
17:56:21 [dlk]
latest in date?
17:56:23 [dlk]
ok
17:56:24 [talli]
yes
17:56:28 [talli]
most recent
17:56:37 [talli]
davb, which should he choose?
17:56:38 [dlk]
thanks :)
17:56:40 [talli]
np
17:56:46 [talli]
do you have to use oracle?
17:56:55 [davb]
I use the CVS
17:56:57 [dlk]
yes.
17:57:12 [talli]
lately, i think the PG version may be slightly more advanced simply because the community seems to use it more
17:57:13 [davb]
or download a nightly tarball. its pretty stable.
17:57:30 [talli]
but most of the companies in the community are actually building Oracle sites
17:57:32 [dlk]
I am gonna test to port a portal thing from "another" cms/appserver thingie to sse how hard it is...
17:57:47 [davb]
interesting.
17:57:55 [talli]
well, actually, the portal system in the current OACS might not be so hot
17:58:16 [talli]
the new portal module should be released in a couple to a few weeks from now, and it should be pretty good
17:58:19 [dlk]
no matter, we built it our selves...
17:58:27 [talli]
oh, ok
17:58:30 [dlk]
I went into production yesterday ;)
17:58:42 [talli]
ah, ok. what's the link? may you share?
17:58:45 [dlk]
so I'll have to build my slef anyway :)
17:58:57 [dlk]
no it is not official yet.
17:59:09 [dlk]
it is a student porta though...
17:59:27 [talli]
if you're interetsed in a portal system for OACS, speak with Neophytos who hangs out here as k2pts
17:59:30 [dlk]
I need to compare openacs to the "other" appserver (open source too)
17:59:34 [dlk]
k
17:59:50 [talli]
what's the "other"? zope perchance?
17:59:57 [Starets]
JBoss?
18:00:06 [dlk]
I like the "other" appserver way of buidlign things but i need to see how openacs works too
18:00:08 [dlk]
Zope.
18:00:13 [talli]
arrr!!!!
18:00:16 [talli]
evil zope.
18:00:21 [dlk]
zope nice.
18:00:23 [dlk]
acs nice.
18:00:26 [dlk]
me like
18:00:27 [dlk]
:)
18:00:52 [talli]
they're very different in architecture. i only "arrr!!!" zope because it's been a pain in my behind as the sales guy.
18:01:04 [talli]
i hear it works nicely, but i also hear it can be a total mess
18:01:10 [dlk]
I wnat to see how acs works anyway... and i also need to compare zope and acs.
18:01:49 [dlk]
it can. I dunno if buidling things in oacs is as easy as in zope.
18:01:50 [talli]
oacs wins
18:02:03 [dlk]
convince me:-)
18:02:05 [talli]
what are you trying to build?
18:02:27 [dlk]
a student portal. with a lot on non-portal things.
18:02:31 [talli]
i'm not really that religious. this channel just makes me a little crazy
18:02:42 [dlk]
a lot of the maintenace has to be made by non-techie poeple
18:02:45 [talli]
what kind of student portal?
18:02:47 [markd2]
* markd2 sprinkles holy water on talli again
18:02:55 [dlk]
heard of e-government?
18:03:17 [talli]
* talli screams and burns, damns markd2 to hell for eternity
18:03:17 [dlk]
think of it as e-higher education. ot at least one step closer.
18:03:24 [talli]
do you know of dotLRN?
18:03:32 [davb]
openacs is nice because all the user management and stuff is all pre-built.
18:03:41 [dlk]
it is really an LMS. Admin stiff and neato features for studetns and teachers...
18:03:55 [davb]
ah, isn't that what dotLRN is?
18:03:58 [dlk]
plus serving the needs of administrators...
18:04:05 [davb]
or will be, rather...
18:04:06 [Starets]
what's a dotLRN?
18:04:08 [dlk]
dotlrn.orb/com?
18:04:12 [dlk]
err .org
18:04:16 [Starets]
* Starets /me is acronym-impaired
18:04:19 [davb]
dotlrn.mit.edu
18:04:28 [davb]
but there is not much there yet.
18:04:56 [Starets]
what's an LMS?
18:05:11 [dlk]
k. I probably will need to adapt it to our needs. Cool. open source and all.
18:05:28 [dlk]
I hope our zope thingie will be opensource, or at least avaialble later on...
18:05:48 [davb]
ack, see the latest from peter@ybos on the bboard?
18:06:26 [talli]
yup
18:06:30 [talli]
retardo montalban
18:06:35 [markd2]
LOL
18:06:48 [markd2]
and soon to be trussed up in Fine Corinthian Leather
18:07:01 [dlk]
hm.. can I run oacs on windows? (before you flip: not for production - wnat to test it on my laptop)
18:07:08 [davb]
yeah, oh we setup a new repository to be the official place for ACS tcl even though OpenACS has been doing that for months.
18:07:14 [talli]
it's best to run it on VMware if you're using win
18:07:16 [dlk]
heh...
18:07:24 [talli]
can't wait for don's flame
18:07:29 [dlk]
he sayd something about that on slashdot too... :)
18:07:37 [dlk]
ok
18:08:11 [dlk]
am gonna install linux on me laptop rsn anyway, so I can wait... :)
18:08:18 [davb]
you need to get AOLserver running. Oracle already runs on windows.
18:08:29 [davb]
I don't think its too easy though.
18:08:55 [davb]
Why does he think we would want to upload OpenACS modules to a place other than openacs.org...
18:08:59 [dlk]
i see. oacs4 is still tcl?
18:09:05 [davb]
very much so :)
18:09:08 [dlk]
kewl.
18:09:23 [talli]
peter is a prick, at least he's been one in the community for a while. he's a shameless self-promoter
18:09:30 [dlk]
been a coupple of years since I used tcl last (it was on a mac actually :)
18:09:39 [talli]
he wants to be the next aD, and OACS is his competition
18:09:45 [dlk]
it is threade yet?
18:09:51 [talli]
why anyone would want to work with ybos when they can hardly code, dunno
18:10:18 [dlk]
* dlk silently removes the bookmark he made to the ybos site...
18:10:29 [talli]
tell it, bro
18:12:05 [dlk]
me? tell what?
18:12:44 [talli]
tell markd2 that susie said that jimmy said that jamie said he's cute.
18:13:31 [markd2]
* markd2 blushes
18:13:41 [markd2]
of course, susie and jamie are probably just Rolf
18:13:52 [markd2]
gotta switch computers. brb
18:13:55 [markd2]
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18:14:03 [dlk]
markd2: talli sez to tell you that susie said that jimmy said that jamie said he's cute
18:14:13 [dlk]
he's=you :-)
18:14:17 [talli]
dlk! you missed him!
18:14:22 [dlk]
dang!
18:17:06 [dlk]
hm... what kind of platform is oacs?
18:17:23 [talli]
what do you mean?
18:17:40 [dlk]
like it serves webpages from db, or is there infrastructure in place to view/edit etc pages thru a browser,
18:17:53 [dlk]
is there a templating language there, etc...
18:17:56 [talli]
yes
18:17:58 [markd2]
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18:18:06 [dlk]
k
18:18:08 [talli]
it's a pretty complex and powerful system
18:18:22 [dlk]
think I'll have to find palce on one of our servers to test it...
18:21:21 [dlk]
thanks for the help. Gotta go home... bye
18:22:11 [dlk]
dlk is now known as dlk-gone
18:22:11 [markd2]
good luck
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20:12:06 [shagster]
* shagster decieded to spend rest of day using sed to replace all variables in his current problem to varray[x] then do the knowledge transfer :)
20:19:43 [markd2]
heh
20:21:40 [davb]
I think there is some cruicial piece of programming lore I need to understand...:)
20:29:16 [shagster]
Never bug a programmer while he is sleeping^H^H^H^H^H^H^H thinking?
20:31:39 [markd2]
http://www.tanksforsale.co.uk
20:31:39 [chump]
C: http://www.tanksforsale.co.uk from markd2
20:31:44 [markd2]
C:|Tanks For Sale!
20:31:45 [chump]
titled item C
20:31:51 [markd2]
C: The next logical step beyond the aD Ferrari
20:31:51 [chump]
commented item C
20:33:42 [talli]
my parents told me that i was conceived in the back seat of a tank, or maybe i was delivered in the back seat of a tank. either way, i bet that it would be really great to have an indomitable polish tank.
20:57:41 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
20:57:52 [talli]
oh well well well
20:58:02 [talli]
come for a little round the ring, huh?
20:58:15 [denshi]
heh.
20:58:33 [denshi]
i noticed CathyS cruised by here last night.
20:58:45 [denshi]
can we expect vinod to wear pants more often now?
20:58:59 [talli]
one should only hope. or at least a skirt
20:59:29 [davb]
hi denshi
20:59:33 [denshi]
hey davb
21:00:09 [talli]
denshi, i would be careful in announcing your intentions for revenge upon me.
21:00:16 [talli]
you will look mighty foolish when you fail
21:01:07 [denshi]
when did rolf become staunch?
21:01:20 [talli]
when he started drinking starch.
21:01:36 [talli]
denshi, are you interested in helping migrate the bboards to the new OACS?
21:01:44 [denshi]
bah.
21:01:44 [talli]
or mostly jus tbuilding the proxy user sys?
21:01:45 [denshi]
maybe.
21:02:05 [denshi]
i noticed that most of the proxy sys is already there.
21:02:49 [denshi]
the annoying thing is that the hard part is in the human element ... matching a proxy user with someone who says that they're that user.
21:02:58 [denshi]
one of those protocol problems.
21:03:12 [talli]
i don't think that web/db is the real issue
21:03:27 [talli]
all that stuff needs to be worked out with aD
21:03:53 [talli]
it's not right for us just to assume we can take it without their approval. they are not dead *yet*.
21:03:55 [denshi]
well sheeet, how far along *is* the new oaks site?
21:04:07 [talli]
however, there's a whole shitload of OACS data that needs to be moved
21:04:32 [markd2]
rolf is a smooth buddy
21:05:40 [denshi]
speaking of rolf, I finished the FC board.
21:05:52 [markd2]
bummer folks have stopped posting
21:06:05 [markd2]
I guess the Healing Has Finished
21:06:16 [markd2]
or else everyone was too dumb to bookmark it after the link fell off the front page
21:06:29 [denshi]
all praise blogs.
21:07:15 [markd2]
heh
21:08:31 [talli]
WTF???
21:08:42 [markd2]
heh
21:08:49 [markd2]
depends on if that was pre or post exodus
21:08:52 [denshi]
talli, are you even typing in the right channel?
21:09:00 [talli]
oh, sorry
21:09:02 [talli]
you're right
21:09:08 [talli]
gotta stay on track in here
21:09:09 [markd2]
heh
21:09:15 [talli]
denshi, how's that facial hair coming along?
21:09:27 [markd2]
I think you owe us two vinod slams and a rolf razzing
21:09:54 [talli]
how about i give you a play by play of the cat fight going on in my bedroom right now?
21:10:07 [talli]
unfortunately, it does not include bikinis or hot oil
21:10:12 [markd2]
bummer
21:10:15 [markd2]
just fur?
21:10:28 [talli]
just fur, but the full body kind.
21:10:51 [talli]
on four legged creatures
21:11:06 [markd2]
"hot furry on-all-fours action!"
21:11:37 [denshi]
I'm never around when talli's tripping. :(
21:12:15 [talli]
precisely. It's a war between the large Herman Delgado Funkelberger, Fat Orange Cat of Tribeca, vs. Seamus Aby McFatwa, Terrorist Kitten of the East Village.
21:12:23 [talli]
s/Aby/Abu
21:14:06 [talli]
Herman usually wins, but Seamus refuses to accept that he is outweighed by a good 10 pounds at least and will inevitably get his ass kicked
21:15:18 [talli]
denshi, glad to hear you're well on your way to sysadmin-hood
21:15:33 [denshi]
bah, I left that racket years ago.
21:15:42 [talli]
how's the guy coming along? and the "rm -d /bin/laden" collection of tshirts?
21:15:46 [denshi]
'course, my checkbook wishes I didn't.
21:15:50 [talli]
s/guy/gut
21:16:28 [denshi]
neither, thanks.
21:16:54 [denshi]
Back on FC, there are a number of threads on the FC boards that seem like they were written by Philip.
21:17:05 [talli]
they prob were
21:18:33 [denshi]
I didn't believe it until a frequent poster with a unique writing style broke down his tax needs and factored out charity funds based on the national average.
21:18:44 [talli]
haha
21:19:02 [denshi]
I have trouble concieving of anyone still in the philg cult caring enough to write that.
21:21:14 [talli]
rolf got some major love props though
21:21:56 [denshi]
I've noticed everything philg says recently is self-defeatist dreck. It's all
21:21:56 [denshi]
oops.
21:21:56 [denshi]
It's all "the net is over, give all your money to Microsoft, your dreams suck."
21:21:56 [denshi]
ugh.
21:22:34 [denshi]
indeed. I hear he's also quite large, looks like Brad Pitt, and uses cheese in unspeakably erotic acts.
21:22:58 [talli]
and he can roll, man
21:23:09 [denshi]
....and dogs chase him, and he destroyed aD by eating pizza. Rolf sounds like a goddamn anime supervillan.
21:26:02 [markd2]
they're probably waiting for the other track to come in
21:26:24 [denshi]
bada-bing!
21:26:32 [talli]
they're soviet tanks. they probably couldn't afford the other track
21:26:35 [markd2]
couldn't resist. sorry
21:26:36 [denshi]
I've always wanted a half-track.
21:26:49 [davb]
bye
21:26:53 [davb]
davb has quit ()
21:26:55 [denshi]
bye davb.
21:27:24 [denshi]
I plan to pare down the armor to just what can stop texan civilian rounds, get rubber tread on the tracks, and use it as my primary vehicle around Austin.
21:28:06 [talli]
aren't texan civilian rounds like .50 mm shells?
21:28:26 [denshi]
yeah, but they're not steel jacketed, I think.
21:28:31 [talli]
don't kids get nukes for their sweet 16 parties?
21:29:01 [denshi]
Only thing I'm worried about are TOW missiles.
21:29:21 [denshi]
or those french versions that can bore through 3 feet of steel.
21:29:38 [denshi]
Is composite armor street legal?
21:30:06 [talli]
you mean the frAHnch cinema? i bet that shit can boar a couple of tons of steel.
21:30:40 [talli]
after a couple of hours, i imagine the steel begins to sag and wilt under a barrage of incomplete story lines and hackneyed metaphors
21:32:28 [docwolf]
hi all
21:32:36 [talli]
yo, gotta go...
21:33:03 [talli]
talli has left #openacs
21:34:41 [denshi]
hiya doc
21:34:55 [denshi]
I notice you can make talli run in fear.
21:35:04 [denshi]
Can you share this secret knowledge?
21:39:45 [talli]
talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
21:40:50 [markd2]
looks like the effect is only temporary
21:43:38 [denshi]
hey, talli, I think I'm going to be in NY around March 16th.
21:44:15 [denshi]
if they have beer in New York, perhaps we should go get some.
21:47:52 [talli]
no thanks.
21:47:56 [talli]
not interested
21:48:09 [talli]
unless...
21:48:40 [talli]
hold on... on a business call. (tee hee)
21:49:17 [talli]
me and kenneth lay
21:56:18 [pepec]
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21:58:17 [denshi]
hello pepec
22:01:13 [talli]
denshi, what kind of justice might i escape? i fear not your brand of outlaw bravado.
22:01:37 [denshi]
you will fear my half-track, then.
22:02:41 [markd2]
plus that whole ark of the convent thing
22:02:46 [markd2]
er, covenant
22:02:55 [talli]
no, convent was right
22:03:18 [talli]
i built a hella sweet balloon arch for Our Sisters of Brooklyn last week
22:03:23 [denshi]
I'm a WCB, but that's neither here nor there.
22:04:46 [talli]
WCB?
22:04:55 [denshi]
anyway, I'll stomp around Carnegie Mellon for a bit then come over to NY, so if you're on that side of the continent send me a note.
22:05:11 [talli]
i expect i will be
22:05:12 [denshi]
Maybe I'll ignore CMU and just stomp around Pittsburgh.
22:05:15 [talli]
let's do it
22:05:22 [talli]
you gonna go check out schools?
22:05:59 [denshi]
nah, a friend of mine is PhD at CMU. Haven't seen him in >1 yr. School is already locked on UT Austin.
22:06:15 [talli]
fer grad too?
22:06:22 [denshi]
If I were in the market to look, I would have stayed in SF and one to Berzerkeley.
22:06:49 [talli]
yeah, that woulda been good
22:07:12 [denshi]
fer grad I'm going to try to go Berkeley. I'll use the next 3-4 semester as the most corrupt, devious undergrad ever seen to make that happen.
22:07:34 [talli]
whoa. how much more time do you have to spend down there
22:07:35 [talli]
?
22:08:02 [denshi]
2 semesters. but I think I need a little more time to brew up some evil.
22:09:15 [talli]
ah. you mean like... (dramatic music please) ... Axis of Evil?
22:09:30 [talli]
is it hard to brew up North Korea?
22:10:05 [talli]
pepec where are you from?
22:10:22 [denshi]
I'll try to cook up some directed research out of the stuff I'm working on now and tune that research towards some labs in Berkeley.
22:10:31 [talli]
oh, cool
22:10:49 [denshi]
http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/axis.shtml
22:10:49 [chump]
D: http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/axis.shtml from denshi
22:10:57 [denshi]
D: Axis of Just-as-Evil
22:10:57 [chump]
commented item D
22:11:08 [markd2]
* markd2 waits for the Axis of Dr. Evil
22:11:39 [talli]
really? is docwolf starting an axis of evil?
22:11:41 [pepec]
pepec has left #openacs
22:11:42 [denshi]
"How I learned to stop worrying and love the Axis"
22:11:49 [talli]
perhaps with his humpbacked lackey, Rzolf?
22:15:42 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
22:18:25 [denshi]
well, talli, I'm going to get back to suing people. avoir.
22:18:31 [talli]
later
22:18:32 [denshi]
denshi has quit ()
22:27:59 [docwolf]
we are the axis of evil
22:28:04 [docwolf]
bow to our huge penises
22:28:16 [docwolf]
(i read it on fucked company, it must be true)
22:28:23 [talli]
oh, so now you have big penises, huh?
22:28:36 [docwolf]
that's the word on the street
22:28:39 [docwolf]
who am i to argue?
22:28:39 [talli]
i guess those "power drinks" really do have something in them
22:31:01 [talli]
just like a true MBA... honesty is always a flexible value
22:32:03 [docwolf]
what is truth?
22:32:39 [docwolf]
does this look like a Bad Idea to you?
22:32:41 [docwolf]
http://www.som.com/html/7_south_dearborn.html
22:32:41 [chump]
E: http://www.som.com/html/7_south_dearborn.html from docwolf
22:32:47 [docwolf]
because it looks like a Bad Idea to me
22:32:51 [talli]
dunno. it's somewhere between the accounting department and sales, i think
22:33:23 [talli]
ugh. sounds like a great idea
22:33:37 [talli]
are they going to paint the target on it or is that just implicit?
22:34:31 [docwolf]
haha
22:36:39 [docwolf]
the city council approved it
22:36:41 [docwolf]
hmm
22:36:48 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs
22:36:58 [talli]
yoyoyoy k2pts
22:37:03 [talli]
been waitin' for ya
22:37:03 [k2pts]
howdy talli
22:37:22 [k2pts]
I've had problems all day with my email...so much for the two hour upgrade ha :)
22:37:27 [talli]
i don't have anything to say to you right now, but i may have had something before
22:37:36 [talli]
what were you upgrading?
22:37:59 [k2pts]
not me, my ISP...
22:38:03 [talli]
ah.
22:39:00 [k2pts]
they were supposed (that what there notification said) to upgrade their network during the wee hours (hope that makes sense). Instead I couldn't read email for a day...
22:39:12 [k2pts]
s/there/their
22:39:56 [k2pts]
some messages seem to have been lost. I'm subscribed to the new openfts mailing list and I can see a few messages that haven't made it into my inbox...
22:40:10 [k2pts]
yet (I hope)
22:51:36 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
22:52:11 [denshi]
anyone alive?
22:53:50 [k2pts]
hey denshi
22:54:41 [k2pts]
nice show you had last night with vinod and talli...
22:54:44 [k2pts]
:)
22:54:49 [denshi]
* denshi bows.
22:55:21 [denshi]
hey, are you a hardcore oracle nerd?
23:01:36 [k2pts]
nope, I'm a softcore oracle nerd but hardcore postgresql though :)
23:01:45 [k2pts]
what's up?
23:02:01 [denshi]
I'm looking at CONNECT BY problems.
23:02:10 [k2pts]
sorry not your man...
23:02:17 [denshi]
and I'm wondering about the performance hit.
23:02:32 [denshi]
it's not a syntax question, it's a general DB index question.
23:03:00 [k2pts]
don't know denshi, ask though and you might receive :)
23:03:45 [denshi]
in theory, the reason CONNECT BY (& similar) is slow is that the DB has to make two passes through the index for each row returned, correct?
23:04:15 [k2pts]
sorry, denshi, I'm completely clueles about connect by use in oracle.
23:04:27 [denshi]
so I'm googling to answer the question: did 1960's style hierarchical databases have an index type explicit for hierarchies?
23:05:11 [k2pts]
afaik, hierarchical database were using some kind of pointers...
23:15:08 [denshi]
relationals use pointers, too, they just don't make them explicit to the user.
23:20:15 [andyn]
andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs
23:22:48 [denshi]
hey andy
23:23:23 [k2pts]
denshi: i'm not sure but hierarchical databases make it explicit. to browse a hierarchy you have to follow pointers
23:23:50 [denshi]
i guess my problem is I don't know anything about HDBs query languages.
23:24:24 [k2pts]
From Elmarsi&Navather:
23:25:10 [k2pts]
"So far we have considered retrieving single records by using the GET command. But when we have to locate a deep
23:26:05 [k2pts]
a record deep in the hierarchy, the retrieval may be based on a series of conditions on records along the entire hierarchical path. To accomodate this, we introduce the GET PATH command:
23:26:31 [k2pts]
GET (FIRST|NEXT) PATH <hierarchical path> [WHERE <condition>]
23:26:36 [denshi]
which version of that text do you have?
23:26:44 [k2pts]
second edition
23:28:46 [denshi]
blue cover, horizontal cliff art?
23:29:13 [k2pts]
yeap
23:29:22 [denshi]
oh good. got that one.
23:29:46 [denshi]
not quite the most readable text around, though...
23:30:23 [k2pts]
I had to buy it when I was an undergrad...
23:31:05 [denshi]
i swiped it off my DB teacher after dropping her class. the next edition was out.
23:31:28 [denshi]
yeah, I'm Todd Gillespie.
23:31:37 [denshi]
You're Neophytos, as I understand.
23:31:47 [k2pts]
yes
23:31:48 [denshi]
are you greek?
23:31:56 [k2pts]
yes, cypriot
23:32:42 [k2pts]
denshi: would you care to comment on the design of the categorization data model?
23:33:22 [denshi]
that's on the lower half of the peloponnese peninsula? or is it an island?
23:33:42 [denshi]
I haven't read the categorization model yet. Where is it?
23:34:56 [k2pts]
Cyprus is at the crossroad of Europe, Asia and Africa...It's the Republic of Cyprus...37% (North) is occupied by Turkey. They invaded 1974.
23:35:26 [k2pts]
there's no categorization package...yet
23:35:56 [k2pts]
we were just playing with dave here yesterday and I wrote the datamodel...haven't send it to him yet but I will (I hope you are reading this dave)
23:37:46 [k2pts]
denshi, sorry. have to head out. just got an email w.r.t my top-secret project :)
23:38:06 [k2pts]
I'll probably log in later...
23:38:09 [k2pts]
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23:47:20 [denshi]
denshi has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))