IRC log of openacs on 2002-02-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:06:56 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@207-172-97-178.s178.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
00:38:18 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit ("What happens if i press this bu")
01:03:27 [davb]
davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-161-172.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
02:59:16 [davb]
davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:15:47 [davb]
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03:28:12 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@r-41.23.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
03:46:47 [vinod]
anyone know of a pl/[pg]sql 'url_encode" type function offhand?
03:47:07 [talli]
i do
03:47:22 [vinod]
* vinod listens intently
03:47:34 [talli]
it's called "stick it up your ass"
03:47:44 [talli]
sorry, i tried to think of something more creative
03:47:46 [talli]
couldn't
03:48:06 [vinod]
no such command "stick it up your ass"
03:48:13 [vinod]
did i type it right?
03:48:43 [vinod]
* vinod banishes talli to #zope
03:48:45 [talli]
uh, emphasize the it. stick IT up your ass
03:49:06 [talli]
* talli send vinod to #mysql
03:49:18 [vinod]
aaaaah!
03:49:40 [talli]
don't mess with me, rookie. i got all the IRC skillZ
03:50:23 [talli]
* talli tries to figure out how to make his name blink
03:50:36 [talli]
and scroll, too
03:51:09 [vinod]
to make it blink, just hit the "on/off" switch on your monitor repeatedly
03:51:18 [vinod]
to scroll, drop your monitor
03:51:30 [talli]
ah, caveman hacking
03:51:55 [talli]
the successor to eXtreme programming, right?
03:52:03 [vinod]
haha
03:52:19 [talli]
i would hate to know your interpretation of cybersex
03:52:41 [vinod]
cybersex isn't interpreted, it's compiled
03:52:44 [vinod]
sheesh!
03:52:49 [talli]
oh man
03:52:51 [talli]
lol
03:53:12 [talli]
where's markd2? i need a ruling if that's good enough for the quote file...
03:53:16 [vinod]
haha
03:53:47 [vinod]
i think he's intentionally ignoring us
03:54:05 [talli]
btw, vinod, you have just doomed yourself to a life of loneliness
03:56:41 [markd2]
* markd2 rules it is good enough for the quote file
03:56:46 [vinod]
i don't even know what we're talking about anymore
03:56:50 [vinod]
woohoo!
03:57:05 [vinod]
* vinod stops programming for the day
03:57:11 [vinod]
time to start working on tomorrow'
03:57:19 [vinod]
tomorrow's quote
04:00:43 [markd2]
* markd2 sings
04:00:49 [markd2]
Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
04:00:53 [markd2]
I'll Quota ya! Tomorrow!
04:00:57 [markd2]
It's just Vinod and Talli
04:01:01 [markd2]
* markd2 stops singing (thank god)
04:01:08 [vinod]
thank bork!
04:01:28 [vinod]
* vinod doesn't like seeing vinod and talli mentioned in the same sentence
04:01:36 [vinod]
ack! there it is again!
04:02:52 [markd2]
it's everywhere
04:03:17 [davb]
davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:04:31 [talli]
markd2, what is borkware?
04:04:41 [markd2]
borkware is as borkware does
04:04:49 [markd2]
it's also my AIM screen name
04:05:33 [talli]
what do the snuffpuppets have to do with your AIM id?
04:05:40 [markd2]
I googled for my AIM ID
04:05:52 [markd2]
and found the borkware luggage and stick-figure guy
04:06:01 [markd2]
who happened to be link off the snuffpuppets
04:06:10 [markd2]
the snuffpuppets were so weird, I just had to include the
04:15:34 [talli]
we sublet some space from these guys in cambrige: http://www.livesexact.net
04:15:49 [talli]
they put electronic drums in teddy bear heads and then hit them
05:02:03 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("wheeeee")
05:06:29 [andyn]
andyn has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
05:45:45 [andyn]
andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs
09:30:28 [vinod]
vinod has quit ("changing universes")
13:13:51 [lilo]
[Global Notice] Hi all. Non-critical network announcements can be found from time to time on WALLOPS. To tune in, try one of the following commands: /umode +w, /mode <yournick> +w, /quote mode <yournick> +w, /rawmode mode <yournick> +w. Thank you for using OPN and have a great day!
13:34:18 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@r-41.65.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
13:40:31 [davb]
davb (~dave@rrcs-nys-24-97-22-203.biz.rr.com) has joined #openacs
13:43:33 [echarp]
echarp (manu@r38m112.cybercable.tm.fr) has joined #openacs
14:36:39 [markd2]
'morning / 'afternoon
14:36:51 [talli]
hello markd2
14:37:44 [davb]
hi
14:37:50 [talli]
yo davb
15:24:12 [lilo]
[Global Notice] Hi all. Non-critical network announcements can be found from time to time on WALLOPS. To tune in, try one of the following commands: /umode +w, /mode <yournick> +w, /quote mode <yournick> +w, /rawmode mode <yournick> +w. Thank you for using OPN and have a great day!
15:27:05 [til]
til (~tils@port-212-202-128-195.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs
15:35:53 [zooko_cooking_breakfast]
zooko_cooking_breakfast (~zooko@140.184.83.37) has joined #openacs
15:35:55 [zooko_cooking_breakfast]
zooko_cooking_breakfast is now known as zooko
15:39:20 [markd2]
* markd2 wonders about folks who change their nick all the time to inform the world of their every detail, yet don't talk in the channel
15:39:41 [zooko]
zooko is now known as zooko_scratching_his_left_ear
15:39:45 [markd2]
heh
15:39:47 [zooko_scratching_his_left_ear]
zooko_scratching_his_left_ear is now known as zooko
15:39:49 [zooko]
* zooko smiles.
15:39:49 [davb]
:)
15:40:10 [markd2]
there's a guy on #wplug that does that easily 20-30 times a day. drives me nuts
15:40:11 [davb]
* davb thinks they are waiting for the good stuff....
15:40:12 [zooko]
Hey there. Some channels hate people who show up and immediately ask questions that they could have figured out by themselves.
15:40:37 [zooko]
I was wondering what programming language(s) the original OpenACS was written in, and I heard about #openacs from the FAQ,
15:40:48 [zooko]
and I always hang out on irc.openprojects.net anyway (#p2p-hackers, #mnet), so I popped in.
15:40:51 [davb]
OpenACS has alway been in Tcl
15:40:52 [markd2]
col
15:40:56 [zooko]
But then I decided to keep reading FAQs instead of asking. ;-)
15:40:56 [markd2]
yeah. i t's been tcl
15:41:05 [zooko]
Interesting.
15:41:07 [markd2]
with some of the databases stored-procedure language
15:41:14 [davb]
right.
15:41:16 [markd2]
pl/sql for oracle. not sure what it's called for postgresql
15:41:21 [zooko]
I guess the ACSv4 that the venture capitalists promulgated was going to be 100% Pure Java, right?
15:41:27 [davb]
pl/pgsql (they are super creative)
15:41:29 [zooko]
But OpenACS -- modern OpenACS -- is still Tcl?
15:41:32 [markd2]
yes
15:41:36 [zooko]
Thanks for the answers.
15:41:43 [markd2]
the second Java ACS should have been called '5.0'
15:41:49 [markd2]
since it had no relationship whatsoever to the acs 4
15:41:56 [zooko]
Ah.
15:41:56 [markd2]
calling it "4.6" was a disservice
15:41:56 [zooko]
* zooko nods.
15:42:18 [markd2]
to add to the confusion, there was an acs java based on acs 4 tcl, but it was a conversion of tcl/adp => jsp
15:42:34 [markd2]
the death-blow acs/java 4.6 is has no architectural relationship to what we paly with around here
15:42:37 [markd2]
s/paly/play
15:43:57 [zooko]
* zooko nods.
15:44:47 [zooko]
I'm interested in programming languages, and I hate the "Everything should be 100% Pure Java" campaign, so I wanted to collect this story as a data point for my own personal world view.
15:44:56 [zooko]
I'm not aware of any other major, living effort that uses Tcl.
15:45:16 [zooko]
I hope it doesn't offend to say so, but it seems like Tcl, having lost its Tk monopoly, is moving pretty slow nowadays.
15:45:34 [markd2]
it's also pretty feature complete
15:45:57 [markd2]
on the FC bboards about aD's demise, folks are comparing Tcl to the clean/maintainable subset of Perl that many pros use
15:46:07 [zooko]
* zooko nods.
15:46:10 [zooko]
Interesting comparison.
15:46:11 [markd2]
if you're into languages, catch Denshi when he's around. He's a nut
15:46:27 [zooko]
I've used Perl quite a bit, but the only Tcl that I've used was a summer of developing DejaGNU test suites for PGP.
15:46:36 [markd2]
cool
15:46:38 [zooko]
I really hated it, but I later realized that some of the problems were with DejaGNU instead of with Tcl itself.
15:46:50 [markd2]
I like tcl. Any language you can mater in a couple of hours is OK by me :-)
15:47:01 [zooko]
(The big problem was that any syntax error in any of my Tcl scripts would result in an identical DejaGNU error message: "Error eval'ing code.".)
15:47:10 [zooko]
It wouldn't tell me which script, or what the error was. Boy did that suck.
15:47:19 [zooko]
Yeah, it was easy to learn how Tcl worked.
15:47:20 [markd2]
sounds like a dejuGNU problem
15:47:27 [markd2]
I get tons of stack traces in my day-to-day work :-)
15:47:34 [markd2]
(too many in fact. getting sloppy in my old age)
15:47:49 [zooko]
Yeah. I'll be willing to give Tcl another chance now that I've figured out it was DejaGNU's problem.
15:49:39 [davb]
markd2: thanks. I just read the hole acts of gord :)
15:50:06 [davb]
s/hole/whole (argh)
15:50:41 [markd2]
Acts of Gord ruls(tm)
15:50:41 [zooko]
Well I'd better be testing my demo for CodeCon <http://codecon.org>.
15:50:46 [zooko]
I'll lurk in here for awhile...
15:50:47 [markd2]
cool
16:04:38 [zooko]
zooko is now known as zooko_testing_mnet
16:10:20 [davb]
hmmmm uptime has been having problems on an off with my domains over at cornerhost...
16:24:15 [talli]
zooko_testing_mnet: welcome! seems like you've got the open mind OACS needs!
16:24:28 [talli]
btw, RelishGuy (Roger Williams) for president!!!
16:32:28 [til]
anyone had problems sending mail to neophytos lately? his mail server rejects my mail, grr
16:33:33 [til]
Remote_host_said:_451_4.7.1_Please_try_again_later ... whatever that means
16:33:37 [davb]
not me, although I haven't tried
16:33:58 [davb]
disk full? :)
16:34:17 [talli]
he should be back here sometime
16:35:01 [til]
* til waits
16:35:21 [til]
everybody should send him a mail to inform him that his server's disk is full
16:36:00 [talli]
good idea. i also have a 5 MB jpeg and a 10 MB word file i was hoping he might take a look at. i'll attach them to the alert email.
16:36:26 [til]
i will include high-res screenshots of my mail server logs
16:37:10 [zooko_testing_mnet]
* zooko_testing_mnet waves.
16:37:16 [zooko_testing_mnet]
zooko_testing_mnet has left #openacs
16:45:19 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs
16:45:25 [k2pts]
hi guys
16:45:35 [talli]
hey k2pts
16:45:44 [talli]
TIL!!! HE'S HERE!!!
16:45:48 [k2pts]
talli: I heart a rumour that there's gonna be a beta release if everybody votes for no name change
16:46:02 [k2pts]
til's here?
16:46:14 [talli]
k2pts, i hear a rumor that you're gonna get your butt kicked
16:46:25 [k2pts]
29.3 at some point this morning
16:47:07 [k2pts]
til: got my message?
16:47:33 [til]
hey k2pts!
16:47:40 [k2pts]
hey til
16:48:19 [k2pts]
talli is silence....
16:48:25 [k2pts]
s/silence/silent
16:48:35 [til]
my email is rejected by your email server ... maybe it's because i don't have an official dnsname for my machine, but never had problems with that before
16:48:54 [til]
it says: Connected_to_195.14.133.150_but_sender_was_rejected./Remote_host_said:_451_4.7.1_Please_try_again_later
16:49:05 [k2pts]
yeah my ISP is screws things a bit from time to time
16:49:31 [til]
or maybe he is the only one on the net that does it right ...
16:49:31 [k2pts]
send it to k2pts at yahoo.com
16:49:34 [til]
ok
16:49:56 [k2pts]
no they really screw things but their monopoly...not for long I hope
16:50:04 [k2pts]
(EU)
16:50:12 [k2pts]
s/their/they are
16:50:21 [talli]
brb
16:50:22 [talli]
talli has left #openacs
16:50:53 [k2pts]
has anybody seen philg's post about aolserver. that guy is incredible :)
16:52:10 [k2pts]
Philip wrote:
16:52:11 [k2pts]
It seems to me that nobody is using AOLserver. This makes me happy because it means I will never have to help a student debug a script. I can claim complete ignorance of every student's tools. I guess it also means that IIS is the rightful heir to the AOLserver legacy: threaded, built-in scripting, ADP-like page development (no surprise since ADP was copied from ASP).
16:52:25 [k2pts]
http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000tbk&topic_id=22&topic=Ask%20Philip
16:52:25 [chump]
A: http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000tbk&topic_id=22&topic=Ask%20Philip from k2pts
16:53:22 [davb]
I think he is reformatting his HD to istall windows xp
16:53:26 [davb]
:)
16:53:41 [k2pts]
yeap
16:53:43 [k2pts]
:)
16:54:22 [k2pts]
there are more. in every message he doesn't forget to mention how good microsoft products are...
16:54:25 [davb]
really incredible.
16:54:29 [davb]
weird.
16:54:32 [davb]
spooky.
16:55:04 [davb]
He never mentions the cost of being locked in the MS trunk.
16:55:20 [k2pts]
ah, and he always mentions of how weak microsoft's department for palmtop technology is...I wonder why...
16:55:31 [k2pts]
:)
16:55:56 [davb]
He hasn't really written anything interesting to me in a long time.
16:56:12 [davb]
hey, the "book" was two years old when I found it.
16:56:23 [k2pts]
I'm reading his bboard postings...
16:56:28 [markd2]
k2pts: nothing really to comment on
16:56:38 [markd2]
philip was just commenting on the choices the students have made
16:56:43 [k2pts]
have you seen the paul graham thread?
16:57:16 [k2pts]
markd2: yes, but "rightful heir to the AOLserver legacy"
16:57:18 [k2pts]
?
16:58:02 [k2pts]
http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000taw&topic_id=22&topic=Ask%20Philip
16:58:02 [chump]
B: http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000taw&topic_id=22&topic=Ask%20Philip from k2pts
16:58:06 [markd2]
in the eyes of the MIT students, sure
16:58:13 [markd2]
one of the reasons why I'd avoid hiring MIT graduates :-)
16:59:01 [k2pts]
:)
17:00:25 [k2pts]
But anyway if everyone were using something like Microsoft .NET common runtime the libraries for Java might just work for Lisp programmers and vice versa -- Philip
17:02:09 [talli]
talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
17:03:29 [k2pts]
I'm sorry to have to say this Phil, because I generally respect your opinions, but here you are talking nonsense, and you would do as well to just admit it instead of trying to spin your way out of it.
17:03:29 [k2pts]
(I guess Philip didn't see that coming)
17:03:37 [k2pts]
-- Paul Graham
17:03:59 [k2pts]
now that I noticed, he did call him Phil...
17:05:36 [k2pts]
next one is my favorite :)
17:05:40 [k2pts]
Want an operating system that doesn't
17:05:41 [k2pts]
have to spend 5 minutes fscking itself after a power interruption (cf. Mac OS
17:05:41 [k2pts]
X)? Windows XP with NTFS. I think the only area where Microsoft hasn't
17:05:41 [k2pts]
completely crushed the competition yet is in Palm-style devices. Those
17:05:41 [k2pts]
PocketPCs are so power hungry that you have to recharge them every night, as
17:05:41 [k2pts]
opposed to a black and white Palm that can run for a month on AA batteries.
17:06:05 [k2pts]
http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000tb2&topic_id=22&topic=Ask%20Philip
17:06:05 [chump]
C: http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000tb2&topic_id=22&topic=Ask%20Philip from k2pts
17:08:42 [talli]
well, guan yang is a bit of a sycophant. he kinda goes all around the web and kisses the butt of the big wonks. he was the guy that kept the whole aD soap opera alive by posting all the lawsuit crap
17:09:54 [markd2]
a *bit* of a sycophant? heh
17:10:20 [talli]
yeah, well i tried to be nice if he ever googled for his name :)
17:10:26 [k2pts]
talli: where have you been? did you collect more votes for your poll choice?
17:10:39 [talli]
phone. brb
17:10:51 [k2pts]
til: are you still there?
17:11:11 [til]
k2pts: yes
17:11:17 [k2pts]
have you sent it?
17:11:24 [til]
yes
17:11:47 [til]
yahoo accepted it, according to my mail servers log
17:12:10 [k2pts]
strange, they did say they were having an upgrade but it was not until tomorrow morning
17:12:33 [davb]
perhaps this is why it needs one :)
17:12:47 [k2pts]
probably
17:17:19 [k2pts]
bbiam
17:17:20 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
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echarp is now known as ecGoHome
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17:30:13 [k2pts]
Dear Customer,
17:30:13 [k2pts]
We would like to inform you that in our effort to provide you with the best quality of service we are planning an upgrade of our network. The upgrade will begin at 05:00 am on Wednesday February 13th 2002 and it will have a maximum duration of two (2) hours. During that time you will not be able to retrieve your emails from your mailbox while you will be able to send. Please note that all the other Cytanet services will work as normal and that
17:30:13 [k2pts]
no emails will be lost.
17:30:13 [k2pts]
Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience that this upgrade may cause to you.
17:30:49 [k2pts]
that's not until 22 hours from now...
17:32:10 [markd2]
* markd2 schedules some important email to k2pts in 22.1 hours
17:32:23 [k2pts]
:)
17:38:44 [k2pts]
markd2: it seems you have had a nice time last night with vinod and talli -- disclaimer: my english are not that good. don't be offended :)
17:38:58 [markd2]
heh
17:39:13 [markd2]
yeah, I always enjoy seeing talli and vinod PERFORM together
17:39:30 [k2pts]
I hope vinod won't see that last post...
17:40:04 [k2pts]
how old is vinod?
17:40:22 [markd2]
youngish
17:40:32 [markd2]
mid-thirties or below
17:40:36 [k2pts]
ok
17:40:45 [markd2]
* markd2 tries to figure that out in metric
17:40:48 [davb]
heh
17:40:56 [k2pts]
dave how old are u?
17:41:04 [davb]
30 11/12s
17:41:35 [markd2]
got about 3 years on ya :-)
17:41:39 [davb]
too old to be starting a CS degree
17:42:00 [davb]
I knew I should have spent the last 14 years or so playing games...
17:42:10 [k2pts]
davb hopes that we'll release openacs on his birthday. that's why he didn't vote for noname change
17:42:18 [k2pts]
:)
17:42:46 [davb]
Actually I do hope its released near my birthday :) that will coincide nicely with this project.
17:42:55 [k2pts]
talli: still on the phone?
17:43:12 [davb]
he must be if he didn't respond to markd2 back there
17:43:16 [k2pts]
I think that last post might get some more votes for "OpenACS"
17:43:42 [k2pts]
davb: have you read the chatlogs?
17:44:08 [k2pts]
<talli> i would hate to know your interpretation of cybersex
17:44:09 [k2pts]
03:52:41 <vinod> cybersex isn't interpreted, it's compiled
17:44:09 [k2pts]
03:52:44 <vinod> sheesh!
17:44:09 [k2pts]
03:52:49 <talli> oh man
17:44:09 [k2pts]
03:52:51 <talli> lol
17:44:09 [k2pts]
03:53:12 <talli> where's markd2? i need a ruling if that's good enough for the quote file...
17:44:17 [davb]
heh
17:44:21 [davb]
i missed that one.
17:44:26 [Starets]
Starets (petej@fellspt.charm.net) has joined #openacs
17:44:43 [davb]
hi Starets
17:44:49 [markd2]
and indeed, it made it into my quotes file
17:45:00 [davb]
I was just checking
17:45:01 [k2pts]
<vinod> * vinod banishes talli to #zope
17:45:01 [k2pts]
03:48:45 <talli> uh, emphasize the it. stick IT up your ass
17:45:01 [k2pts]
03:49:06 <talli> * talli send vinod to #mysql
17:45:01 [k2pts]
03:49:18 <vinod> aaaaah!
17:45:01 [k2pts]
03:49:40 <talli> don't mess with me, rookie. i got all the IRC skillZ
17:45:02 [k2pts]
03:50:23 <talli> * talli tries to figure out how to make his name blink
17:45:04 [k2pts]
03:50:36 <talli> and scroll, too
17:45:06 [k2pts]
03:51:09 <vinod> to make it blink, just hit the "on/off" switch on your monitor repeatedly
17:45:08 [k2pts]
03:51:18 <vinod> to scroll, drop your monitor
17:45:10 [k2pts]
03:51:30 <talli> ah, caveman hacking
17:45:12 [k2pts]
03:51:55 <talli> the successor to eXtreme programming, right?
17:45:14 [k2pts]
03:52:03 <vinod> haha
17:45:18 [k2pts]
what about that one?
17:45:52 [markd2]
pretty funny
17:45:58 [markd2]
those two should do a stand-up act
17:46:05 [k2pts]
yeah :)
17:46:07 [markd2]
lunch time. bbl
17:46:09 [markd2]
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17:46:16 [k2pts]
I was reading...it's more funny than cartoons :)
17:49:14 [til]
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18:01:21 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
18:05:57 [talilee]
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18:05:57 [talli]
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18:06:02 [talilee]
talilee is now known as talli
18:08:49 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@209-122-233-213.s2023.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
18:09:17 [talli]
oh well, la dee da, look who's coming waltzing back
18:09:45 [talli]
hello, vinod
18:09:59 [talli]
* talli goes to wash his keyboard after spelling HIS name
18:10:04 [vinod]
waltzing? I was struttin!
18:11:06 [talli]
like a peacock? with your feathers up? showing off for the babes?
18:11:27 [talli]
i bet the patients really appreciated that
18:11:36 [talli]
next time, try strutting with your pants ON
18:12:05 [vinod]
pants are overrated
18:12:55 [ecGoHome]
ecGoHome is now known as echarp
18:13:32 [talli]
but pantaloons... no there's an IDEA!
18:13:53 [vinod]
pantaloons would be comfortable, i think
18:15:19 [vinod]
http://www.tdrinc.com/genghis.html
18:16:25 [talli]
whoa. their side vented
18:17:03 [talli]
so when you fart, the gas can escape rather than fill up the pantalloons like a hot air balloon.
18:17:04 [vinod]
heh - i'm not going to comment on that feature
18:17:07 [talli]
that's smart
18:17:21 [davb]
oh my
18:17:47 [davb]
I think I better get a waterproof monitor, or stop drinking while reading this channel
18:17:56 [vinod]
lol
18:18:03 [davb]
exactly
18:18:04 [talli]
oh c'mon davb, like you never filled up your pants with gas.
18:19:18 [talli]
hey vinod, i'm thinkin' of having a beantown social sometime soon
18:19:27 [davb]
cool. only 3 hours away
18:19:29 [talli]
davb, could you make boston for a social?
18:19:32 [vinod]
cool!
18:19:34 [talli]
excellent
18:19:53 [vinod]
maybe you'll let me know a couple days in advance, unlike the portland one?
18:20:14 [davb]
vinod: what's wrong, you jet was being serviced that day?
18:21:03 [talli]
davb, no, it just takes vinod a few days to program his VCR to record Star Trek
18:21:14 [vinod]
haha
18:21:17 [davb]
heh
18:21:18 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@r-41.75.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
18:21:20 [talli]
sorry, vinod. i'll be more thoughtful next time
18:21:58 [vinod]
apology accepted (since i'm sure it's not genuine)
18:22:23 [talli]
neither is my love
18:22:40 [talli]
or your gold teeth
18:24:08 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs
18:24:33 [markd2]
who cares if the love is genuine
18:24:40 [markd2]
so long as I get my $19.99/month's worth
18:24:46 [markd2]
uh. wrong window
18:24:47 [markd2]
(I hope)
18:25:34 [vinod]
$19.99/month - that's some hi-class p0rn!
18:25:44 [k2pts]
hey vinod
18:25:50 [vinod]
hey k2pts!
18:26:01 [k2pts]
had fun reading the chatlogs this morning :)
18:26:20 [talli]
vinod, how much are you charging for your webcam nowadays?
18:26:35 [Starets]
Starets has left #openacs
18:27:19 [talli]
i've got my nickels together, and i want to support your art
18:27:54 [vinod]
it's a graded pricing scheme, how much money you got?
18:28:35 [talli]
enough for a shirt and (hopefully) your socks
18:28:53 [markd2]
the socks are pretty hardcore
18:29:00 [markd2]
might want t work up to those
18:29:05 [markd2]
maybe start with a comb or an old toothbrush
18:30:36 [talli]
http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000taw&topic_id=22&topic=Ask%20Philip
18:30:36 [chump]
D: http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000taw&topic_id=22&topic=Ask%20Philip from talli
18:30:49 [talli]
D: Red Hat grabs last of Arsdigita
18:30:49 [chump]
commented item D
18:31:08 [talli]
D: The company was profitable at its outset in 1998, co-founder Eve Andersson said on a Web site chronicling ArsDigita's demise. But it faltered after an attempt to follow the start-up route of venture capital funding and expansion.
18:31:08 [chump]
commented item D
18:31:23 [davb]
wrong link?
18:31:26 [talli]
i don't think eve has much of a chance of getting VC funding again
18:31:31 [talli]
whoops, you're right
18:31:57 [talli]
D: correct link: http://news.com.com/2100-1001-834607.html?tag=cd_mh
18:31:57 [chump]
commented item D
18:37:27 [vinod]
markd2: i like your aD-is-history paragraph
18:37:36 [vinod]
except for the line "I don't have an agenda to put forward"
18:37:59 [vinod]
i'd like to hear about the demise of aD from the pro-balloon perspective
18:39:16 [talli]
i think aD used a teddy bear twist when it should have just done a ballie and lock
18:39:39 [k2pts]
vinod: where's the aD-is-history paragraph?
18:39:40 [talli]
how's that?
18:39:51 [vinod]
http://badgertronics.com/blog/
18:39:51 [chump]
E: http://badgertronics.com/blog/ from vinod
18:40:01 [k2pts]
thx
18:40:25 [vinod]
E:| Borklog: Notes from the fridge
18:40:25 [chump]
titled item E
18:40:29 [markd2]
heh
18:40:48 [vinod]
E: best... blog... ever! (needs some javascript and flash though)
18:40:48 [chump]
commented item E
18:41:32 [k2pts]
markd2: well said
18:41:46 [vinod]
talli: he hints at it, but never comes out and says it
18:41:52 [vinod]
"Massive creation, wearing a lot of hats, making new friends"
18:42:01 [markd2]
LOL
18:42:11 [vinod]
"play with some new toys, make some people happy"
18:42:20 [vinod]
"Some people got screwed"
18:42:26 [markd2]
hubba
18:42:29 [vinod]
haha
18:47:19 [davb]
http://www.edwardtufte.com/1215783739/bboard/q-and-a?topic_id=1
18:47:19 [chump]
F: http://www.edwardtufte.com/1215783739/bboard/q-and-a?topic_id=1 from davb
18:47:33 [davb]
F:|Edward Tufte: Graphic of the Day
18:47:33 [chump]
titled item F
18:48:09 [markd2]
Ask E.T.
18:48:12 [markd2]
* markd2 phones home
18:48:32 [davb]
F: looks like it's still ACS derived
18:48:32 [chump]
commented item F
18:49:43 [vinod]
http://www.edwardtufte.com/1215783739/doc/release-notes/
18:50:01 [davb]
heh
18:50:40 [davb]
I don't see the graphic of the day that was in the link I got...
18:51:04 [markd2]
scroll to the bottom
18:51:06 [vinod]
me neither
18:51:11 [markd2]
they're individual threads
18:51:16 [vinod]
ahh
18:51:27 [davb]
aha, thanks
18:51:42 [talli]
vinod and davb, when's good for you for an OACS social in boston?
18:51:49 [talli]
(probably in slumerville, btw)
18:52:30 [davb]
I am not sure... Niagara falls this weekend (in-laws)
18:53:05 [davb]
but I am flexible. If its a weekday, I need a few days to arrange to sneak out early
18:53:57 [echarp]
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18:54:24 [vinod]
weekdays are better for me (in general), but I'm flexible, too
19:01:06 [vinod]
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19:01:53 [vinod]
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19:02:18 [shagster]
Well, one in Cleveland, OH would be better for me :)
19:03:10 [talli]
shagster, cleveland sounds great!
19:03:28 [talli]
the only problem is that it's cleveland. any chance you can move cleveland to boston?
19:04:04 [shagster]
What is wrong with Cleveland? Huh, Huh? :)
19:04:17 [talli]
uhm...
19:04:21 [talli]
is your beer any good?
19:04:27 [davb]
I suspect it is...
19:04:32 [shagster]
Very good...
19:04:33 [davb]
what else do they have to do?
19:04:40 [davb]
:)
19:05:11 [shagster]
Where have serveral award winning local brewhouses :)
19:05:31 [shagster]
davb: Don't forget the strip clubs! :)
19:05:37 [davb]
I thought so with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and all. There has to be beer.
19:05:44 [davb]
and that too
19:06:01 [talli]
any chance one of those brewhouses is a strip club, too?
19:06:04 [shagster]
Grel Lakes Brewery, 'bout 4 miles from my house
19:06:28 [talli]
ok, that settles it
19:06:30 [shagster]
Nope, but you can get the beer there (umm, so I have -heard-)
19:06:46 [talli]
gonna have an OACS social in cleveland.
19:06:57 [talli]
anywhere there's a brewhouse, we'll have a social
19:07:17 [shagster]
We could have a week long conference then :)
19:07:22 [davb]
ummm we have several in albany...:)
19:07:49 [k2pts]
talli: Cyprus has no age limit for alcohol :) for the younger members of the community
19:07:53 [shagster]
* shagster . o O ( Cleveland, We are happy drunks! )
19:09:29 [davb]
quote from new bboard post "...what idiot added empty_string_p..." referring to OpenACS 3.x code...
19:11:48 [k2pts]
davb: are you in for some one hour porting to oracle?
19:12:17 [davb]
I can help some, I am better in the oracle->pg direction
19:12:17 [k2pts]
I was thinking on writing a categorization package. shouldn't be that hard. almost everything is in place. but I hate doing it twice...
19:12:41 [davb]
Ah. yes I really would like a nice categorization package.
19:13:07 [k2pts]
ok, I can work on it now and email you in an hour or so (maybe earlier). does that sounds good?
19:13:13 [davb]
sure.
19:13:16 [shagster]
*grr* solaris and disk suite...there goes my afternoon
19:13:35 [talli]
shagster, are there many OACS hackers in the surrounding Cleveland area?
19:13:48 [k2pts]
ok, I'll check the chat room from time to time...
19:14:17 [shagster]
Not really, seems to be just about ...me...
19:14:22 [shagster]
that I know of...
19:14:31 [davb]
aha I found it "returns 1 if a string is empty; this is\
19:14:31 [davb]
better than using == because it won't fail on long strings of numbers"
19:14:43 [davb]
sounds like me shagster.
19:14:56 [davb]
Hopefully we will have more if this project takes off, otherwise it will take 10 years.
19:15:15 [markd2]
I tried that in aolserver3.3ad-mumble
19:15:19 [markd2]
and it worked for long strings of numbers
19:15:28 [talli]
davb, but you relatively near Boston, right? 3 hours ain't too bad...
19:15:29 [davb]
what ==""?
19:15:32 [talli]
i wouldn't do it, but... :)
19:15:39 [shagster]
That is why I'm working on the easy installer :)
19:15:42 [davb]
talli: yeah. well we like to visit boston anyway.
19:15:55 [talli]
shagster, you're working on an installer? cool!
19:16:10 [k2pts]
davb: what shall I name the package:
19:16:14 [k2pts]
1. categorization
19:16:18 [k2pts]
2. acs-categorization
19:16:24 [k2pts]
3. openacs-categorization
19:16:34 [talli]
4. i love talli
19:16:35 [k2pts]
sorry talli no oacs-categorization for today
19:16:40 [davb]
heh
19:16:55 [k2pts]
I like (1). davb: what you think?
19:17:00 [davb]
me too
19:17:16 [k2pts]
anyone else...
19:17:18 [talli]
how about "XXX for free!!!"
19:17:20 [davb]
will this be able to replace the CR categories?
19:17:33 [k2pts]
do you mean the keywords?
19:17:33 [talli]
lots of websites use that name. it's a pretty popular name
19:17:59 [davb]
k2pts: yeah category/keyword
19:18:12 [k2pts]
davb: no
19:18:24 [davb]
ah. ok
19:18:26 [k2pts]
actually,...
19:19:25 [k2pts]
davb: keywords could be added later I think
19:20:14 [davb]
k2pts: ok. maybe keywords and categories should be seperate anyway.
19:20:23 [davb]
the distinction in CR is pointless.
19:20:25 [k2pts]
davb: yes, that's what I think
19:21:12 [k2pts]
I'll give a shot on the data model, email it to you. if my email still works...and then work on the ui...I don't think it will be too difficult...
19:22:09 [davb]
argh where it .LRN?
19:22:21 [davb]
There is a big discussion on Learning CMS at [cms-list]
19:22:40 [davb]
:)
19:22:41 [k2pts]
davb: "argh where it .LRN?" pls explain
19:22:47 [k2pts]
talli: are you still there?
19:23:01 [talli]
yup
19:23:26 [davb]
I just want to promote OpenACS over on that list. But we need something they can look at :)
19:23:51 [talli]
it would be nice if OF ever released or spoke about their work, wouldn't it?
19:24:04 [k2pts]
what's the link?
19:24:11 [davb]
heh
19:24:25 [davb]
http://dotlrn.mit.edu
19:24:25 [chump]
G: http://dotlrn.mit.edu from davb
19:24:34 [k2pts]
no not dotlrn. the cms-list?
19:24:38 [davb]
oh :)
19:24:47 [talli]
have they added any pages yet, or everything is still broken?
19:25:16 [davb]
http://www.camworld.com/cms/
19:25:16 [chump]
H: http://www.camworld.com/cms/ from davb
19:25:19 [davb]
broken
19:25:23 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
19:25:25 [davb]
H:|CMS List
19:25:25 [chump]
titled item H
19:35:46 [k2pts]
dave, have to head out for a while. I'll email you when I'm done
19:35:50 [davb]
ok
19:35:55 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
19:44:49 [davb]
http://www.langreiter.com/
19:44:49 [chump]
I: http://www.langreiter.com/ from davb
19:45:09 [davb]
I:|Interesting Weblog - Langreiter.com plain, simple
19:45:09 [chump]
titled item I
19:45:28 [davb]
I: apparently running Vanilla software a wikialike that looks interesting
19:45:28 [chump]
commented item I
19:48:24 [davb]
also
19:48:26 [davb]
http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/FrontPage
19:48:26 [chump]
J: http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/FrontPage from davb
19:48:39 [davb]
J:|Bill Seitz weblog/wiki
19:48:40 [chump]
titled item J
20:01:06 [til]
til (~tils@port-212-202-128-195.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs
20:17:22 [davb]
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020207.html
20:17:22 [chump]
K: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020207.html from davb
20:17:33 [davb]
K:|Bank Shot
20:17:33 [chump]
titled item K
20:17:42 [davb]
K: Not Even a Mountain Can Get in the Way of Bob's Search for Faster Internet Service
20:17:42 [chump]
commented item K
20:17:52 [davb]
darn, markd2 is not around
20:27:18 [davb]
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/apparel/595d.shtml
20:27:18 [chump]
L: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/apparel/595d.shtml from davb
20:27:24 [davb]
L:|SQL T-Shirt
20:27:24 [chump]
titled item L
20:27:46 [davb]
L: link stolen from [SWHACK Weblog|http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/]
20:27:46 [chump]
commented item L
20:36:19 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs
20:36:46 [k2pts]
dave: it may take me a while longer. (we got traffic at the openfts mailing list :) I'll send the data model soon though
20:37:03 [davb]
np. I will probably look at it tomorrow
20:37:38 [k2pts]
ok
20:52:10 [markd2]
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20:59:53 [k2pts]
til: got the email messages. I'm gonna get back to you soon...
21:02:35 [til]
k2pts: ok ... i fwd'd it to don too
21:03:01 [talli]
til, k2pts: what are you guys planning? a surprise party? for me? i'm so flattered!
21:03:12 [til]
actually if the comment functionality wasnt so ugly in the sdm it would make sense to use that
21:03:42 [til]
oh no he found out!
21:04:04 [markd2]
(b)SDM
21:04:59 [talli]
til, where are you in the world, again?
21:05:17 [til]
haha, a (b)sdm surprise party
21:05:23 [til]
berlin right now
21:05:26 [davb]
til: I just read that email about persons and users. cool idea. I might need that for the site I am working on.
21:06:06 [til]
yeah, about every project i am thinking of would need sth like that
21:06:17 [k2pts]
dave: I started working on the categories again. We have to make a choice:
21:06:23 [til]
and have companies represented as groups
21:06:37 [davb]
til: exactly. uhoh, better not talk to you :)
21:06:45 [davb]
too secret :)
21:06:56 [til]
which projects exactly? ;)
21:07:03 [k2pts]
choice 1. object_category_map table with object_id, category_id both referencing the acs_objects table
21:07:26 [k2pts]
choice 2. object_category_map, category_category_map, categories tables
21:07:35 [talli]
k2pts, that must be code for planning my surprise party
21:07:39 [talli]
you guys are too much!!!
21:08:00 [k2pts]
I prefer (1) eventhough the second approach might be faster when browsing categories
21:08:01 [davb]
k2pts: choice 2 allows sub-categories to be in more than one super-category?
21:08:22 [k2pts]
choice (1) allows that two
21:08:30 [k2pts]
s/two/too
21:08:52 [davb]
oh ok. so 1) categories are objects, 2) they are not? I think objects if the overhead is not too much.
21:09:27 [k2pts]
2) they are objects but you reference the categories table instead and you split mappings in two categories...
21:09:37 [k2pts]
anyone has to offer suggestions/comments
21:09:57 [k2pts]
talli: don't know what surprise party you talk about. I want a surprise party as well :)
21:10:38 [talli]
oh, ok.
21:10:53 [talli]
make sure to plan my surprise party for yourself as well, then
21:10:54 [davb]
I still like 1)
21:11:03 [k2pts]
still?
21:11:05 [talli]
but be careful not to spoil your own surprise.
21:11:06 [k2pts]
1 or 2
21:11:20 [k2pts]
dave?
21:11:27 [davb]
but without any real technical reasons. I don't know enough to make an educated guess.
21:11:34 [davb]
1.
21:11:37 [talli]
i'll bring vinod to the party. he's ugly enough for you to be surprised
21:12:04 [k2pts]
dave: you said (2) first but then you said "still 1". I'm confused make a choice :)
21:13:10 [davb]
sorry, thinking in the channel. I like choice 1, I just needed more information.
21:14:57 [k2pts]
ok
21:16:41 [davb]
k2pts: if you make the apis can't the table structure be changed without breaking applications? or am I way off?
21:17:20 [k2pts]
otoh, we will need to join with the acs_objects table if we take (1) unless we have a categories table and reference acs_objects for convience sake
21:18:00 [davb]
don't we need a category table no matter what? to hold the names of the categories etc?
21:18:50 [k2pts]
acs_objects has a pretty_name column
21:19:01 [k2pts]
but I think we should use one anyway
21:19:02 [davb]
ah, ok.
21:19:07 [davb]
me too.
21:19:40 [k2pts]
i'm gonna send the datamodel in a while
21:19:49 [davb]
ok.
21:20:11 [davb]
bbl, time to go home
21:20:44 [k2pts]
ok, later
21:26:40 [davb]
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21:27:21 [talli]
k2pts, you may want to cc luke on the categories email
21:27:36 [talli]
i know we've needed to use that stuff, and luke has a pretty good idea how to do it
21:29:39 [k2pts]
yes sure
21:57:37 [andyn]
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22:40:58 [andyn]
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22:43:56 [k2pts]
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til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:25:08 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-228-32.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
23:25:12 [docwolf]
good evening
23:26:10 [donb]
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23:26:48 [donb]
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23:27:15 [markd2]
hey doc
23:27:17 [vinod]
hey docwolf!
23:27:23 [markd2]
"what is up, doctor?"
23:27:28 [docwolf]
how's it going?
23:27:36 [docwolf]
someone dissed lars on FC
23:27:41 [docwolf]
docwolf not happy.
23:27:54 [vinod]
that's weird
23:29:46 [markd2]
unleash your mighty flame "thrower" upon those FC bastages
23:29:50 [vinod]
wow, there's like 400 comments now. i quit reading around 100 or so
23:30:01 [markd2]
it dies off for awhile, then comes back
23:30:06 [markd2]
a lot of grieving to work through apparently
23:33:10 [docwolf]
markd2: i'm ready to unload
23:33:16 [docwolf]
it looks like someone beat me to it, though.
23:33:48 [markd2]
the more the merrier
23:34:48 [docwolf]
i think philip is posting over there
23:36:12 [markd2]
really?
23:36:15 [markd2]
who do you think it is?
23:36:23 [docwolf]
i think he's posting under a variety of names
23:36:28 [docwolf]
the "tone" is his
23:52:52 [k2pts]
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23:53:20 [k2pts]
did I miss Don?
23:53:44 [k2pts]
my email is not working again....
23:55:05 [k2pts]
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23:56:26 [denshi]
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23:58:00 [denshi]
talli?