00:14:22 vinod (~vinod@209-122-231-249.s1519.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 00:19:19 hi vinod 00:20:01 hi vonid 00:27:04 hey guys 00:27:12 vonid? 00:27:56 sounded better than dinov 00:28:07 vonid 00:28:12 has a nice ring 00:28:20 is that the new openacs name? 00:29:58 i think we should keep the ArsDigita name 00:30:46 see how long we can keep it going before anyone notices that the company died. 00:31:06 til (tils@A0126.pppool.de) has joined #openacs 00:31:21 haha 00:31:37 it looks like the demise is pretty brutal, though... FC is showing no mercy 00:32:01 really? 00:32:10 ugh. you should read some of those posts 00:32:26 some are genuinely funny.. others just mean-spirited. 00:32:46 http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/phpcomments/index.php?newsid=82497&page=7&parentid=0&crapfilter=1 00:32:47 A: http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/phpcomments/index.php?newsid=82497&page=7&parentid=0&crapfilter=1 from docwolf 00:32:59 i think some people are taking it too seriously. 00:33:15 andyn has quit (Remote closed the connection) 00:33:40 "Kidnap his dog and demand a $5 million ransom. 00:34:12 "I'm a fuckedcompany addict and know the first five digits of pi. Plus I know enough spanish to get drunk in Guatamala. What are my chances with this girl here? Be brutally honest with me. 00:34:53 ouch 00:35:04 someone even posted pretending to be peter at ybos.. 00:35:09 at least i _hope_ he was pretending 00:36:44 "Puh-leeeze. This is fuckedcompany, not the sensitive ponytailed men's club. You, my friend, missed out on some interesting after work parties. 00:37:59 i remember why i avoid fc.com :-) 00:38:56 hehe 00:53:11 til has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:53:33 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 01:14:44 davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-161-172.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 01:16:11 hey davb 01:16:11 hello 01:16:16 howdy vinod 01:29:19 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 01:36:31 andyn has quit ("leaving") 01:36:49 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 01:40:26 vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:11:47 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.99.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 02:18:46 andyn has quit ("leaving") 02:18:54 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 02:25:20 andyn has quit (Remote closed the connection) 02:30:01 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 03:06:04 davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.5 [Mozilla rv:0.9.8/20020204]") 03:15:06 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 03:27:07 ooohhh, damn they left 03:42:53 andyn has quit ("leaving") 03:43:03 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 03:46:03 andyn has quit (Client Quit) 03:46:09 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 03:59:02 talli (~talli@188.muka.lasv.snfccafj.dsl.att.net) has joined #openacs 04:08:42 Hi,,, 04:09:18 anyone here? I just got oacs from cvs, now I want to get all the packages too :) 04:09:26 can I get em all in one shot? 04:32:18 talli has left #openacs 05:42:19 beattiek has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 05:42:19 shagster has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 05:42:19 djg has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 05:43:28 beattiek (beattiek@bmhd25b1y14ha.bc.hsia.telus.net) has joined #openacs 05:43:28 shagster (~mkovach@web1.alal.com) has joined #openacs 05:43:28 djg (~dirk@212.84.246.68) has joined #openacs 05:53:02 [Global Notice] Hi all. In a few moments we'll be starting open proxy detection and we'll be blocking users who appear to be on open proxies. We've been auditing the list and we shouldn't lose too many people. But please write to support@openprojects.net if you have a problem and we'll try to help. Thanks. 06:02:58 [Global Notice] Hi again all. Starting the proxy detector. Please email support@openprojects.net with any questions or problems. 06:30:50 [Global Notice] Hi all. Just an afterward. Out of about 4,700 users, we've lost 7 in a complete scan for open proxies. The scanner is a bit conservative though, and will occasionally kill someone out with a proxy that only appears to be open. If you know anyone with a problem, please have them email support@openprojects.net. Thanks for your understanding. 07:41:34 andyn has quit ("leaving") 07:41:47 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 09:45:14 shagster has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:45:15 djg has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:45:15 beattiek has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:49:00 beattiek (beattiek@bmhd25b1y14ha.bc.hsia.telus.net) has joined #openacs 09:49:00 shagster (~mkovach@web1.alal.com) has joined #openacs 09:49:00 djg (~dirk@212.84.246.68) has joined #openacs 13:33:58 markd2 (~markd2@r-41.159.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 13:45:16 echarp (manu@r38m112.cybercable.tm.fr) has joined #openacs 13:57:10 uh oh 13:57:17 here comes trouble 13:58:18 aD on /.? 14:00:04 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 14:00:10 hi 14:00:31 yeah 14:00:39 this might get ugly 14:01:50 haha 14:01:53 i wonder who wrote that 14:13:42 It is a bit to grammatically correct for me to have wrote it :) 14:14:01 I say it was davb :) 14:21:44 definitely wasn't me then :) 14:32:48 * davb resists the urge to read slashdot... 14:33:08 wait til there are lots of comments to slog through 14:35:41 yeah probably after lunch when I am _really_ bored 14:54:53 * davb thinks its time to try to get NSSoap working again. 15:03:19 hmm 15:03:25 that's an odd post by peterv on slashdot 15:03:48 " Also, we've been enhancing the ACS-Tcl steadily for the last year; it's a totally different project than what Ars Digita has for download -- more stable, faster, better features, etc. OpenACS is nice, but it's still all alpha code. And if you think their 4.X product works with Postgres, you haven't read very carefully. They've been releasing OpenACS 4.X sites on Oracle this year. 15:04:07 why would he feel the need to tear down openacs? 15:06:27 who's peterv? 15:06:36 he runs ybos 15:06:50 http://www.ybos.net 15:06:50 B: http://www.ybos.net from docwolf 15:08:45 probably a way to drum up business 15:18:42 vinod (~vinod@207-172-245-208.s970.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 15:51:46 hi vinod 15:54:11 hey davb 15:56:47 i read the acs-workflow docs last night - quite enjoyable 15:56:57 felt like i learned something :-) 15:57:21 yeah they are great. 15:57:39 although he lost me when he started talking about giving places "colors" using XML and XSLT 15:57:56 I must have skipped over that part. 15:58:00 but i figured that was just some grand future state that will never happen :-) 15:58:20 I wonder where all the code that ybos supposedly added is? 15:58:27 it sure is not avaialbe at ybos.net 16:00:02 what's up with that guy? dissin openacs like that 16:00:50 I am not sure. I doubt customers read slashdot to find developers. 16:02:37 but i'm sure it drives traffic to his site, increases name awareness - plus it's free 16:02:45 that is true. 16:03:03 guess he's not worried about alienating the community 16:03:11 I asked him where the code is over at ybos.net. I asked nicely :) 16:03:41 * vinod feels alienated 16:04:01 * davb knew vinod was an alien 16:04:18 haha - i thought i'd get away with that one without talli around 16:05:54 Can I asked him, un-nicely :) 16:06:20 * vinod starts to get a posse together 16:07:14 I can be a realy b*stard :) 16:07:23 I suspect OpenACS is a better platform to build on. They probably just fixed things so they work. We we busy building a database abstraction, adding postgreql support, plus fixing icky old code. 16:08:23 There is also a big difference between writting code specifically for clients and creating the tool kits 16:09:19 yep 16:09:42 anyone, I am much more interested in the possibility of a new space quest game. 16:10:05 ugh 16:10:16 peterv.. 16:12:48 plug 'em 16:16:36 damn, I didn't even make it until lunch 16:16:47 shame on you... 16:16:48 let's see... he dismisses don and ben as power freaks and then says: If you want a copy of our most recent ACS, just drop me a line, or info at ybos dot net, someone will send you our source tree with enhancements. At any rate, there's no reason to be rude. I wasn't rude to you. 16:16:49 pointless meeting will do that to you 16:17:44 Ben and Don as power freaks? Ben and Don of openacs? 16:17:57 The man must be a moron 16:18:01 everyone *knows* that chump is the big OACS power freak 16:18:10 I say, we plug 'em 16:18:13 well, i may be exaggerating but: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=27678&cid=2974431 16:18:32 * vinod privately massages chump's ego 16:18:36 death to the chump 16:18:57 Vinod is play with chump's ...ummm... ego? 16:19:13 hehe.. and it looks like someone dropped the bomb on philip 16:19:14 * shagster gets the video camera...geek p0rn 16:19:52 * vinod stops massaging 16:20:12 * shagster hands vinod a tissue 16:25:06 zoinks 16:29:27 * vinod makes mental note to watch what i say around shagster 16:30:06 anyway - too much gossip in one morning - gotta go pretend to do real work 16:30:55 vinod has quit ("changing universes") 16:33:52 anyone ever do any XML stuff with expat? 16:34:54 http://www.vivtek.com/xmltools/ 16:34:54 C: http://www.vivtek.com/xmltools/ from davb 16:35:18 C:|xmltools: Command Lines Tools for XML, uses expat 16:35:18 titled item C 16:45:14 argh, they are not building... 17:12:04 aha. 17:12:15 I got TclSOAP working in tclsh. 17:16:03 aha 17:16:03 shagster has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:16:18 TclXML, TclDOM, Tcl XSLT are all going to support libxml/libxslt. 18:41:52 davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:44:20 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 19:12:21 shagster (~mkovach@web1.alal.com) has joined #openacs 19:31:09 so does anyone think that the news guys a while back got word of aD and redhat, but somehow got AOLserver/AOL mixed up? 19:32:51 :) 19:34:06 heh 19:52:10 http://www.creo.com/sixdegrees/product_info.html 19:52:11 D: http://www.creo.com/sixdegrees/product_info.html from davb 19:52:18 D:|Six Degress 19:52:18 titled item D 19:52:45 D: supposedly helps you organize stuff on you computer by maintaining a database of the relationships between files, email, etc. 19:52:45 commented item D 19:53:00 D: I want to know how it works. I am sure they don't want to tell me :) 19:53:00 commented item D 19:53:43 AaronSw (~Snak@63.149.73.20) has joined #openacs 19:53:46 redhat?! 19:53:51 chump:view 19:53:51 A: http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/phpcomments/index.php?newsid=82497&page=7&parentid=0&crapfilter=1 19:53:52 B: http://www.ybos.net 19:53:53 C: xmltools: Command Lines Tools for XML, uses expat (http://www.vivtek.com/xmltools/) 19:53:54 D: Six Degress (http://www.creo.com/sixdegrees/product_info.html) 19:54:27 hi AaronSw. 19:54:31 hello. 19:55:23 A:: 19:55:23 commented item A 19:55:26 ergh 19:55:28 A: 19:55:28 http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/phpcomments/index.php?newsid=82497&page=7&parentid=0&crapfilter=1 19:55:29 (AaronSw) : 19:55:52 heh 19:55:55 RedRum! RedRum! 19:56:19 http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/phpcomments/index.php?newsid=82497&page=1&parentid=0&crapfilter=1 19:56:23 obFC forum 19:56:53 @ lol @ "Kidnap his dog and demand a $5 million ransom 19:57:11 http://www.joelonsoftware.com/news/fog0000000355.html 19:57:11 E: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/news/fog0000000355.html from davb 19:57:23 E:|Joel on Software on aD's departure 19:57:23 titled item E 19:57:55 E: he's wrong though, Open Source didn't kill aD 19:57:55 commented item E 20:01:22 The Internet Exuberance era opened with Travels with Samantha? 20:02:29 I am not sure exactly what he is talking about :) 20:11:53 whatever he's smoking, he's not sharing 20:12:08 hehe 20:12:18 i think joel fancies himself as a philg lite 20:12:26 yeah 20:12:42 Duh. He originally named his company PaxDigita 20:13:07 All the insanity, less filling. 20:14:35 AaronSw has left #openacs 20:22:04 markd2 has quit ("wheeeee") 20:22:18 talli (~talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 20:22:53 hi talli 20:23:00 hey davb 20:23:47 wow. some real idiots are coming out of the woodwork to comment on the aD is gone thread 20:24:44 yeah. making fun of a poor, defenseless car like that 20:34:13 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 20:34:58 hey talli 20:35:43 docwolf, can you recommend a comprehensive medical text on stitching and other flesh repair techniques? 20:37:52 uh oh 20:37:58 denshi, what did you do now? 20:38:28 what, you think that isn't valuable information for everyone to have? 20:38:33 hehe 20:38:44 oh my 20:38:52 "learn by doing" was my motto 20:39:07 denshi: did you see OnLisp is available for download from paul graham's site? 20:39:35 yes I did, davb. I haven't gotten it yet, though. 20:39:54 ok. I knew you would be interested :) 20:41:06 maybe I should heed the words of King Missile and print it out before I leave work. 20:43:13 did you also see this: http://www.readscheme.org/xml-web/ 20:44:02 docwolf: I made an ass of myself at my periodontist b/c my stiches came out. Apparently the medical response to that is "yeah?" My complaint here is, what is medical common sense regarding stiches isn't found in the lay public. 20:44:57 http://google.com/search?q=cache:05qKlen5QoAC:mail.lab.net/lists/archive/lyrics/2000-May/000004.html+King+Missile+%22Take+Stuff+from+Work%22+lyrics&hl=en 20:44:57 F: http://google.com/search?q=cache:05qKlen5QoAC:mail.lab.net/lists/archive/lyrics/2000-May/000004.html+King+Missile+%22Take+Stuff+from+Work%22+lyrics&hl=en from denshi 20:45:07 F: "Take Stuff from Work" by King Missile 20:45:07 commented item F 20:45:11 i'm not sure i understand the question about the stitches 20:45:22 there's not much to them. 20:45:33 they are sterile pieces of string, made out of a variety of materials. 20:45:43 some types dissolve, other types do not. 20:46:05 sometimes they can blow apart 20:46:07 it happens. 20:46:25 bah. Go back to flogging rzolf. 20:46:30 i've actually seen it happen dramatically, to a patient after abdominal surgery 20:46:35 i came into the room 20:46:41 and her intestines were hanging out 20:46:46 "this isn't normal, is it doc?" 20:47:35 ugh. What's the longest op you've scrubbed in on? 20:47:49 longest without me being able to leave... 20:47:56 9 hours 20:48:11 that was brutal 20:48:37 (brutal because it was tedious, and all i was doing was retracting 20:49:14 I can't understand how you can ask a person you remain competent to cut people after that long. The Doc I noted above said he did a 17 hr "back when I was doing gut surgery". 20:49:53 it depends on what you're doing 20:49:57 sort of like when you sit down to code 20:50:08 if you are really, really concentrating, the time can go by quickly. 20:50:18 When I sit down to code I'm allowed to revise mistakes. 20:50:25 so, for the epic 9-hour-without-being-able-to-take-a-leak case i was in on 20:50:27 http://timesshadow.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$985 20:50:27 G: http://timesshadow.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$985 from davb 20:50:39 When I sit down to code I'm also not wearing pants. 20:50:42 G:| Man's Reach Should Exceed His Grasp, or What's a Metaphor? 20:50:42 titled item G 20:50:50 we were hooking up 2 pieces of large intestine. sort of like sewing 2 pieces of pipe together 20:51:11 ok, both of those were more information than I needed 20:51:11 the normal way to do it is with a staple gun that's round 20:51:13 :) 20:51:27 it's a neat tool, and can cut the procedure down to like an hour. 20:51:40 .. but the old-timer i was with wanted to throw each stitch by hand instead. 20:52:04 so, he did. And he had fun. He was able to concentrate for almost 10 hours on putting each stitch in. 20:52:24 G: very much related to some ideas at [reciprocality|http://www.reciprocality.org] 20:52:24 commented item G 20:52:37 That guy could eat the entire software field for breakfast. 20:53:47 cool 20:53:59 man, i was dead by the end of that case, though 20:54:07 b/c all i was doing was holding back pieces of bowel 20:54:08 and watching 20:54:18 so, for me, time passed slowly. 20:54:33 it's all about perception, i guess. 20:55:09 G: "When I think of Agent Smith these days, I think of Dr. Laura. 20:55:09 commented item G 20:55:22 argh. I hate when I copy a CR 20:55:46 heh, it will take you a month to read the stuff a reciprocality.org 20:56:39 sigh.. crazy days. 20:56:41 i miss surgery. 20:56:42 dammit. davb, you ask too much. 20:56:45 but i don't miss the surgeons. 20:56:52 why's that? 20:56:59 surgeons, as a rule, are assholes. 20:57:05 (there, i said it..) 20:57:21 where is vinod to back me up ;-) 20:58:31 vinod is going to read this log and think 'docwolf called me an asshole!' 20:58:42 hehe 20:58:48 vinod probably agrees with me 20:58:52 I assume you have formulated some theory to explain this phenomenon. 20:58:53 though he'd never say it ;-) 20:59:01 what? why surgeons are assholes? 20:59:04 it's cultural 20:59:19 it takes a certain personality to go into the field. 20:59:45 there are exceptions, but as a rule surgeons can be difficult to deal with. 21:01:04 the opposite extreme... pediatricians are generally nice people 21:01:10 and dermatologists like working 9-5. 21:01:14 there, i said it. :-) 21:02:04 ah, so given a balanced set of humans entering med school, the difficult people clump around the surgical subgroup. 21:02:17 it is interesting how that works. 21:02:32 assuming, of course, that you found a balanced set of people entering med school at all... 21:02:36 certain fields are just known to be more laid back than others. 21:02:39 hehe 21:02:46 it was not so balanced, i'm afraid 21:04:55 must run. l8r 21:05:06 l8r. thx. 21:21:49 davb has quit () 21:21:49 denshi has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:47:56 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.194.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 22:00:29 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 22:09:28 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 22:15:57 * davb blindly hacks C code to see what happens 22:21:40 it dumps core, you fool! 22:22:43 heh 22:23:03 no I am taking changed from one version of tcldom and additng it to nstcldom. 22:23:24 oops. 22:23:44 darn, its harder than it looks :) 22:25:29 * denshi urges davb to do a little rat dance on his keyboard. 22:25:45 oh, that helps? 22:27:46 it's a dilbert joke. 22:27:47 a pointer thingy wasn't defined. I added it in. 22:28:24 I can't believe I missed a Dilbert Reference 22:28:32 I'll have to read all the comics on Monday at work. 22:30:20 ok, it built. lets see if it works. 22:31:37 yippee! a different error message. 22:31:43 thats progress in my book. 22:35:31 I think I still missing something. 22:38:18 hmmm no error message, but still doesn't look right. 22:38:34 yeah! it worked. 22:41:01 I hope the IRC logs will be included in davb's CVS checking. 22:41:15 s/checking/checkin/ 22:41:18 heh 22:41:29 luckily I don't have access quite yet :) 22:41:58 although that is an interesting idea. 22:43:34 oops, a new error. 22:43:42 in the tcl code though. 22:43:46 or rather my use of it :) 22:48:14 man, those fc boards are getting nasty. Yet more on topic than usual. 22:48:29 haha 22:48:39 aigh 22:48:40 yes, particularly the revelations about rzolf and his cheese fetishes 22:48:48 haha 22:48:53 ah, not again, too much information.... 22:48:55 they are 100% accurate, i tell ya 22:49:03 he is an animal 22:49:03 especially the cheese parts 22:49:17 Eve got *way* too much cheese for Pi Day I 22:49:17 i keep him locked in the basement with a slab of meat 22:49:25 and rolf finished most of it off in a week or two 22:49:45 i have determined rolf's issue 22:49:51 he is like a fish 22:49:53 and that' bad 22:49:59 because i've been stocking this place with lots of food 22:50:12 and he will eat it until his abdominal cavity explodes 22:50:24 speaking of eve, maybe someone should just post some of that ecommerce code so the well informed and classy FC population can decided for themselves about her Career! 22:50:34 yes, I think the parts blaming it on rzolf might be most accurate. 22:50:45 (of course, we are going to gorge ourselves on cuban food tonight... no mas...) 22:50:52 the collapse of aD or the cheese shortage in florida? 22:51:05 (the collapse of aD) 22:51:49 and as usual, the slashdot maroons don't get it. 22:51:56 and that surprises you? 22:52:15 hehe. i am an optimist. i keep hoping some common sense will bust through. 22:52:15 they're probably saying "who the hell is this rolf guy they keep talking about" 22:52:39 it is almost insane 22:52:45 that eve actually responded to flames on FC 22:52:49 man, do lawyers know about FC? 22:53:21 i hope not 22:53:57 between the philip/nazi and tracy/black guy at bootcamp stories, i can't imagine what people think 22:54:25 tracy/black guy? 22:54:35 it matters not, most of them are ignoring openACS 22:54:38 i realized that the nice thing about open source communities is that there is much less repressed anxiety among the involved members 22:54:55 that's because everyone knows everything, or at least almost everything is of public record 22:55:12 you know, I have never met tracy, don't know tracy's gender, know none of the stories, and I use more of Tracy's code than any other aDer. 22:55:21 but for companies, everything builds up and eventually explodes at a depraved site like FC 22:55:26 most people don't like flying blind... 22:56:18 * jim wonders where all those aerons are going :) 22:56:33 jim: i think everything was leased 22:56:41 total boiler-room scenario 22:57:06 including the fishtank? :) 22:57:15 or, if not leased, they will be used to pay creditors 22:57:17 hehe 22:57:27 apparently the fishtanks were removed months ago, to pay the electricity bill 22:57:35 hmm 22:57:47 but what do i know.. i haven't been back there since last march 22:57:51 (thank god) 22:58:09 * jim did a bootcamp in berkeley 22:58:24 I think it was beginning of feb 22:58:29 oh man 22:58:46 a few of their aerons were broke 22:58:51 from slasdot 22:58:55 My company, ybos.net [ybos.net] is pretty much the number one ACS-Tcl company right now. We picked up the ongoing development of Ars Digita's Tcl platform a year ago when they dropped it for java, and have continued to enhance it. According to f*cked company, the java port is going away now that RedHat has bought it. 22:58:55 22:58:55 Ironically we've done about six times more ACS work than ArsDigita has done this year, including beating them out for the Children's Hospital at Montefiore project, a really cool project which put our site, based on the ACS at every bed in the Children's Hospital, next to Plasma screens and wireless keyboards. We're stable, and growing, and have never had an employee leave the company since we started in 1998. 22:58:57 22:58:59 Also, we've been enhancing the ACS-Tcl steadily for the last year; it's a totally different project than what Ars Digita has for download -- more stable, faster, better features, etc. OpenACS is nice, but it's still all alpha code. And if you think their 4.X product works with Postgres, you haven't read very carefully. They've been releasing OpenACS 4.X sites on Oracle this year. 22:59:04 22:59:06