00:24:56 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:43:50 Phirus (Phirus@pc3-camb3-0-cust24.cam.cable.ntl.com) has joined #OpenACS 00:44:09 Can i ask a bit of a silly question..... 00:44:31 Phirus has left #OpenACS 00:55:49 darn, missed em 01:29:25 Hi davb 01:30:09 um, have you or has anyone noticed that certain versions of mozilla will crash every time when going to /doc? 01:30:42 (maybe it's my own installation...) 01:43:37 confirmed, it's my installation 01:55:01 ah, yeah. I use mozilla all the time with /doc 01:56:18 any really bad issues with bboard? I'm about to try using it with people in my music class... 01:58:11 I think its fixed. 01:58:52 but I have not tested it. 01:59:15 I have to ask talli next time he's around. The code is beta quality so I think OpenACS.org should migrate. 02:00:09 but that probably requires someone to watch it for issues. it pretty much takes care of itself now :) 02:01:01 installing/removing didn't go well, as of 1/31 nightly 02:01:33 tarball? 02:01:38 yeah 02:01:43 they were broken somewhere in there. 02:01:51 I just use CVS and have been lucky :) 02:06:51 I installed bboard ok. and I mounted it. lets see what it can do :) 02:08:12 I installed, created a bboard and posted ok. 02:09:59 I can't remember when don fixed the tarballs... 02:11:30 rzolf (~rolf@above.badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs 02:19:13 hi rzolf 02:26:14 talilee__ (~talli@188.muka.lasv.snfccafj.dsl.att.net) has joined #openacs 02:26:22 talilee__ has left #openacs 02:26:43 talli (~talli@188.muka.lasv.snfccafj.dsl.att.net) has joined #openacs 02:26:48 hey guys 02:27:50 hi talli. 02:27:57 I was just talking about you :) 02:28:33 you and every woman in america 02:28:38 woah 02:30:27 what's up davb? 02:30:39 anyway, I was saying that as long as the OpenACS 4 code is stable and we are just waiting for documentation, we should think about migrating openacs.org to openacs 4. 02:31:03 yeah, we're just waiting for the bboard stuff to be ready 02:31:12 it is not? 02:31:17 it is 02:31:19 or the stuff to convert it? 02:31:22 i think 02:31:29 the migration scripts are more or less ready 02:31:33 ah. I know you have actual work to do :) 02:31:41 :) 02:32:10 but now that the beer population of the pacific northwest is under control... 02:32:19 ugh 02:32:24 i was sooooo hung over this morning 02:32:29 that beer was AWESOME!!! 02:34:54 sorry I missed it. 03:05:58 hi davb. 03:06:03 hi talli. 03:10:45 what the: 03:10:48 'm not into Epinions to make money as much as I am to attract the hot babes. 03:12:04 is that talli's profile? 03:12:12 haha. 03:12:28 no, i think he trolls for hot babes on ebay, not epinions. 03:13:44 oh right. 03:14:12 i find my woman at camwhores.com 03:14:41 who is this marc spitzer guy anyway. 03:14:45 is that you , davb? 03:15:58 i have a feeling he is one of the OACS community's many runaway libertarians and gun nuts 03:16:01 no way :) 03:16:58 haha. 03:17:23 the weird thing about these guys 03:17:38 (Well, aside from the fact that he started ranting about med insurance in the first place) 03:17:56 is that they present the stories like this: 03:18:44 "yeah well i've been laid off 3 times and only had $200 left in my bank account and was eating ramen" 03:18:53 "and that's why the system should stay as it is!" 03:19:34 i find it extremely impressive he was able to lay out such an attractive insurance plan 03:19:42 i may ask him to broker my next mortgage 03:19:44 like. i personally have been laid off and only had $200 in my bank account and have had no health insurance. 03:20:28 and i'm thinkin g"wow it would be nice to live in a country where I could ride my bike to work and not have to worry about falling off and having an $7000 foot fracture" 03:20:42 I wonder if that acs java guy will be back... 03:21:25 people are totally odd. and of course, my opinion is the correct one. 03:22:08 someone should post something about hilary clinton. just to see what spitzer says 03:22:12 haha. 03:22:34 sadly, the health insurance situation in this country is completely awful. 03:23:03 aside from better roads, statistically, the US is looking more and more like "nigeria" every day. 03:23:47 is that because we're being overrun by al queda or because we can't feed our children? 03:24:08 i was thinking because the country is run by oil barons and their cronies. 03:27:52 in any case 03:27:56 well, last time i checked nigeria didn't have any britney spears equivalent, so i don't think it's fair to compare our level of depravity with theirs 03:27:56 we're all doomed. 03:29:05 its cool (?) in minneapolis, cuz there are a lot of very recent east african and nigerian immigrants. 03:29:07 and 03:29:15 there is this african-american radio station 03:29:18 that has this talk show 03:29:26 where people can call in 03:29:42 and...it always devolves into : 03:29:55 some eritrian guy will call in 03:30:07 and start out innoculously 03:30:20 "hi i love the show and am glad to be in this country" 03:30:22 uh oh 03:30:32 "i've got a great job bla bla bla" 03:30:38 and the host is like "that's great" 03:31:02 and then the caller will be like "i just had one question: why are nigerians such lazy, shiftless donkeys?" 03:31:14 and keep it up 03:31:26 until the host is like "uh...whoa ...er...hold on" 03:31:32 then some nigerian guy will call in... 03:31:36 its the same every show. 03:32:07 i guess it isn't so good. but, it is kind of entertaining the first time you hear it. 03:32:22 cuz it is a total suprise. 03:33:05 that's almost as good as NYC public access television, the most beautifully perverse transmission of garbage in the world 03:33:13 haha. 03:33:16 oh man... 03:34:16 i'm going to write a brief story about 03:34:24 people who actually get laid off. 03:34:38 one time, i saw this show put on a high ranking member of the Jewish Defense League 03:34:45 uh oh. 03:34:50 a group that is pretty close to Hamas 03:35:23 he was ranting because he was being kicked off of Manhattan Public Access, a feat that requires quite a bit of work to accomplish 03:35:30 haha 03:35:32 uh oh. 03:35:35 i can only imagine. 03:35:38 it just so happened that the head of Manhattan New Network is black 03:36:02 so as he was ranting about MNN and would refer to the president of the network, he would lift a photo of a gorilla 03:36:14 :'-( 03:36:22 and say the name of the president, pointing to the photo 03:36:33 it was one of the most amazing things i had ever seen 03:36:56 his rhetoric was almost as bad as hitler's, without explicitly saying anything about liquidation 03:37:02 i mean, unlike sharon 03:37:04 yikes. 03:37:08 ugh. 03:37:15 please, i'm just a gentile. 03:37:23 don't make me think about these things. 03:37:26 they just confuse me. 03:37:36 :) 03:37:56 i mean, us norwegians most certainly hate the swedes. 03:38:12 and don't even start on this finns! 03:38:15 but we don't have the desire to liquidate them. 03:38:29 the finns aren't really scandinavians, we mostly ignore them. 03:38:35 oh 03:38:46 except during the olympic hockey tournament, right? 03:39:08 i think geograhically they are lumped into scandinavia. 03:39:24 but genetically they are more related to reindeer. 03:39:32 haha 03:40:38 i hear in Lapland, above the arctic circle, one can find reindeer tongue, coca cola and harrison ford movies at the local groceries 03:40:52 just like when lief erricson was conquering the world 03:40:56 yeah but you can find that in my home town. 03:41:08 you're from lapland? 03:41:11 no. 03:41:21 oh, right 03:41:26 minneapolis 03:41:27 but you can get deer tongue at the quickie mart. 03:41:49 i'm not really from minneapolis. i grew up in a town of 8000 closer to the canadian border. 03:41:52 yowch 03:42:14 my grandparents live in minneapolis, and i lived there for 5 years. 03:42:55 ah, i see 03:43:35 btw, remember to celebrate ronald reagan's bday today 03:43:40 haha. 03:43:45 his royal forgetful is 91 03:43:58 yikes. 03:44:17 i better start getting serious about kung fu or something. 03:44:30 i don't want to be identified as anti-american or, worse, a liberal but when is that fucker gonna die? 03:44:33 so that when i'm 91 i'm wily and mystical. 03:44:48 instead of forgetful and tipsy. 03:44:58 the dude must be a pile of plastic surgery 03:45:05 are all those people who are into reagan serious? 03:45:14 how can you live so fucking long with alzheimer's? maybe he really is a marrionette 03:47:59 well I'm off. Good night. 03:48:09 seeya davb 03:48:20 whoa who is tom hickerson. 03:48:51 and also, the only H1Bs (aside from Yon) were from like...canada. 03:48:58 who cares what happens to them. 03:48:59 haha 03:49:44 devlogics 03:49:54 they are important to the US economy 03:49:56 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:50:09 would that be too rude to post. 03:50:09 devlogics is the foundation upon which we all sleep restfully 03:50:19 "most of the H1Bs were canadian. who cares?" 03:50:24 haha 03:50:45 well, since you're practically a canadian, i think it would be ok 03:53:29 honestly though. 03:53:33 who is this guy. 03:53:45 and why does he think arsdigita had a lot of H1Bs. 03:54:18 there were like 5 h1bs. and they were all from countries that had better standards of living than the US. 03:56:46 what is devlogics. 03:56:56 http://www.devlogics.com 03:56:57 A: http://www.devlogics.com from talli 03:57:03 why do i feel as though i've just entered into a separate "Bizzaro" universe. 03:57:06 even better, check out http://www.coddo.com 03:57:15 that last one will put you over the top 03:57:26 truly hilarious 03:58:37 wow what's the story with coddo. 03:58:53 they are weirdo 03:59:17 what's the deal with offshore development anyway. 03:59:37 do these guys really come in and say "we can do your project for $150." 03:59:45 or is it more like 03:59:53 for a while, coddo had a link to "We and our Fishtank" 04:00:29 "your project will cost $150,000, but you can be rest assured our salesguy in the US will take $120,000, and split the remaining $30K amonst the 50 programmer dev team" 04:00:52 have you ever been in india? 04:00:55 no. 04:01:23 i bet their developers were chosen because they were the only rickshaw drivers that didn't have bloody gums 04:01:29 haha. 04:02:07 i'm just wondering, do offshore firms really underbid by a significant margin. 04:02:17 yes 04:03:10 and companies like them because there is low developer turnover, or so they assume 04:03:16 ah. 04:03:34 it's hard to get away from your computer when you're tied to your desk and the bar has windows 04:03:38 haha. 04:03:43 or, the windows have bars 04:03:52 whichever works more effectively 04:04:07 poor indian code sweatshop laborers. 04:04:14 docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-25-113.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 04:04:26 uh oh. 04:04:37 outta my way, wimps 04:04:46 speaking of oppressive sweatshop barons... 04:04:58 rzolf, how's that whip feel nowadays? 04:05:00 you! no talking! back to coding! 04:05:13 i've been feeding him gruel, too 04:05:19 yeah if i dont finish this javascript. i'm going to have to keep living off weird tubers. 04:05:21 please sir, might have more? 04:05:46 javascript, day 3 04:05:46 man. javascript, huh? 04:05:58 talk about cross-platform compatibility 04:06:29 gonna have one of those "we strongly recommend IE 6.132 service pack 92 to view this site"? 04:06:33 rzolf hasn't moved from his desk in nearly a week. you should see this page. 04:06:52 this is the "sum of all fears" javascript page 04:06:59 the whole site consists of a single 1.5MB javascript class. 04:07:09 haha 04:08:02 how's debugging that javascript page coming along? 04:08:08 i have a feeling that the whole "outsource to india" thing is really not the money at all. 04:08:56 its because corporate managers like to feel like plantation lords of yesteryear. 04:09:16 haha 04:09:28 just having a couple stinky white guys come in and finish business up in a couple months is too foreign to comprehend. 04:09:52 it is more satisfying to feel like you are lording over a team of hundreds 04:10:03 yes, and caucasians don't respond to linen suits as obediently 04:10:24 and the offshore part means you can abstract away the distasteful parts of plantation ownership 04:10:33 like the stench, and the pleading 04:12:02 its just like the distaste a lawyer feels when he goes to get his mercedes serviced. 04:12:16 "Wow this crufty mechanic bills out as much as i do" 04:12:35 no IT manager wants to pay a couple guys more than he makes. 04:12:48 well, it's not as bad as when he goes to get his S&M fetish serviced 04:12:53 haha. 04:13:03 our first office was below an S&M parlor 04:13:07 yikes. 04:13:17 i always thought S&M parlors were in the basement. 04:13:21 the super told us the domanatrix charged like 450 an hour 04:13:38 in the basement, or on the third floor of 4 west 37th 04:14:01 whoa. 04:18:39 hm docwolf, dannie ashe apparently made $8M last year. 04:18:44 whoa 04:18:46 maybe we need to change focus of this software. 04:18:54 yikes 04:19:02 i've been working out... 04:19:02 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020206/en/review-televisionporn_1.html 04:19:04 B: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020206/en/review-televisionporn_1.html from rzolf 04:19:08 but i'm still not that comfortable with my appearance 04:19:35 however, that's what photoshop was made for 04:19:52 and penile enhancement too 04:20:10 hehe 04:21:47 also. why is XML RPC supposed to be interesting? 04:22:25 you are not down with the radiobloggers.. you ain't nothing 04:23:01 xmlrpc is cool because it will provide more interactivity during live nude scenes 04:23:53 what does it actually do. didn't people mainly decide not to use the real "RPC" because it was a huge security risk and only marginally useful? 04:29:14 must finish javascript. lator. 04:29:15 rzolf has quit ("rzolf has no reason") 04:39:29 talli has left #openacs 05:36:48 andyn has quit (Remote closed the connection) 05:54:43 docwolf has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:15:22 echarp (manu@r38m112.cybercable.tm.fr) has joined #openacs 08:59:00 andyn (~andy@12-254-190-230.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 10:02:43 bRac (brac@62.211.43.134) has joined #OpenACS 10:03:07 bRac has left #OpenACS 13:23:56 markd2 (~markd2@r-41.73.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 13:29:06 ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs 13:39:46 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 13:39:50 Hello 13:43:55 Hello 13:44:00 qmail is trying to kill me 13:44:17 qmail is simple, what's wrong ? 13:45:20 For some reason when I get mail from nycap.rr.com's mail server (my ISP) to one of my domains, it bounces saying the domain is not in rcpthosts, although it is. That domain can get mail frm any other mail server no problem. 13:46:40 ie. mail to dave@thedesignexperience.org is OK, but dave@deepskydesign.com bounces. But only if its routed through mail.nycap.rr.com or whatever their server is. 13:47:07 is the 'not in recpthosts' coming from your box? 13:47:15 and you email a copy of the output of /var/qmail/bin/qmail-showctl to mkovach@alal.com ? 13:48:01 * markd2 learns a new command 13:48:02 thanks! 13:50:07 showctl is great for debuggin 13:50:37 sure! thanks! 13:50:45 markd2, yeah, I checked :) 13:52:13 wow thats cool 13:52:47 ola: check that out sometime 13:54:32 alltelsucks (~markd2@r-41.73.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 13:54:58 markd2 has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: alltelsucks!~markd2@r-41.73.alltel.net))) 13:55:04 alltelsucks is now known as markd2 14:06:26 cool stuff, shagster :-) 14:06:41 dave: do you have deepskydesign.com in rcpthosts? 14:07:21 courier is working. Ta-Da! 14:08:57 ola: yes :) 14:09:03 ola: yippee! 14:09:10 :-) 14:09:56 only, I must see what's wrong with imap-ssl. 14:11:09 ah, I never set that up. :) 14:11:47 it was at least two symlinks missing/bad paths in the 1.4.2 courier-imap package (testing)!!! 14:12:55 ah :) tricky. 14:15:17 dave: your telnet trick was the key to salvation, I believe, thanks for your help! 14:15:51 np. I think I got it from markd2> telnet is always handy for seeing what is really happening with network software. 14:17:13 telnet: you can't live with it, and you can't live without it. :-) 14:18:00 heh 14:18:28 telnet's great for everything but actually logging in somewhere :-) 14:19:15 ok. so telnetd is bad.. 14:20:47 wait! I must have telnetd to monitor my services, no? 14:21:06 like to telnet to port 80 of a webserver? 14:21:55 I don't have a need for telnetd that I am aware of. 14:22:00 ahh! you're right.. 14:22:17 telnet is a generic network client I guess :) 14:22:49 but if I want to monitor my port 22...;-) 14:24:31 anyone tried the new PG 7.2? 14:25:11 ...with OACS 4. 14:25:48 not me. vinod made a change I think to make it work though. 14:33:30 oh yeah, i left it out of my email, I did use life with qmail :) 14:47:44 [to davb]: good for you :) 14:48:18 I just replied to your email, best bet is to use recordio to log a failed mail transaction, that should give you move info :) 14:49:32 thanks 14:50:00 that is the main thing to learn. what tools I can use to see what is really going on :) 14:51:19 davb: recordio is neat. I basicaly writes a copy of everything a file descriptor 14:56:01 ah, I should have guessed it was by djb :) 14:56:25 Yea, its nice... 14:57:07 ah for some reason I thought it wasn't installed. 14:57:09 thanks. 14:58:31 weird, empire state college appears to have removed the online application option... 15:00:43 ah, i found it, weird there is no link to it anywhere... 15:17:28 I can't believe how many people try to conect to my port 21. 15:17:52 mostly from my ISP's network... 15:18:04 probably a bunch of compromised windows boxes 15:18:18 yeah 15:18:36 and also port 111 is very popular. 15:19:06 Check this out : http://www.devlogics.com/resources.html 15:21:03 aD tried subcontracting out a lot of stuff to them 15:21:12 like acs/java bboard / faq, and a couple of others 15:21:19 it was a disaster from what I understand 15:21:21 ah. 15:21:32 but I dunno if it was because devlogics didn't ahve clue, or that acs/java was such a bad base to start from 15:21:42 The tutorials are interesting. I wasn;t able to tell if they are from somewhere else or original. 15:23:07 wow, anyone else have any trouble frm google? They are slow, sometimes not loading at all. 15:25:18 google's fast for me 15:25:23 it feels responsive to me 15:25:24 usually I can track down google problems to my ISP :-) 15:25:35 hey davb - where did DavesCreature come from? 15:25:56 I suspected the ISP. 15:26:04 markd2: let me find the link. 15:26:41 http://cvs.espra.net/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/creature/ 15:26:41 C: http://cvs.espra.net/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/creature/ from davb 15:26:46 C:|Where the creature lives 15:26:47 titled item C 15:27:22 No documentation, it might work :) 15:31:57 thanks 15:34:45 should this be a problem? # telnet 127.0.0.1 993 (imaps port) 15:35:07 courier-imap-ssl IS running... 15:35:42 also I get this in /var/log/syslog: 15:35:44 Feb 7 17:32:42 hal imapd-ssl: starttls: accept: error:140760FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_CLIENT_HELLO:unknown protocol 15:40:07 ola, of course you'll get that....telnet can't start an SSL connection 15:40:40 There is a way to use stunnel (or such) to test...I can't remember it right off hand 15:41:04 You might try a quick goold search: imap ssl test telnet 15:41:11 * shagster . o O ( I think that is how I found it ) 15:42:21 uhoh! thanks. heh. I'll google if all else fails (or should I begin with that?) 15:43:28 You basically have to use openssl or something to create the SSL connection. I've only done it once 15:52:40 heh, I never notice the connection re: new iMac and Luxo Jr, the star of Pixar's first animation short (also in the logo) :) 15:53:19 docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-227-75.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 16:00:35 ilamp! 16:00:40 I saw one in person last night 16:04:03 was it ugly? 16:04:14 I have been hearing reports it is not as spiffy in person. 16:04:28 I thouhgt it was pretty cute 16:04:33 cool. 16:04:33 the screen / arm mechansim is really smooth 16:04:41 neat. 16:04:53 I have to trick my wife into buying one with the tax refund :) 16:05:00 heh 16:05:10 as with many apple products, I want one, but don't really need it 16:05:14 so I'll just drool from the sidelines 16:06:24 Now that the new power macs are out, I would probably save up for one of those and get the big display. 16:06:35 yeah 16:53:28 Oh, just want I need a "cute" computer :) 16:55:50 http://www.mab3d.com/images/quicktimepop02.html 16:55:51 D: http://www.mab3d.com/images/quicktimepop02.html from davb 16:55:57 D:|iLuxo 16:55:57 titled item D 16:58:28 hmmmm. all OpenACS procs that produce HTML should take a "class" parameter to be stuff in the tag so I can do CSS magic with it. 17:00:58 goog idea. and "background" should be implemented in default-master.tcl/adp ... 17:01:06 s/goog/good 17:01:14 that yoy can do yourself :) 17:01:26 sure. :-) 17:04:33 I mean if we use standard ids and classes for CSS a designer can just change the css and the code will never need to be touched. 17:04:50 I should not have to hack ad_context_bar :) 17:07:40 we need separation of SQL/Tcl/HTML/css - wow, the system is getting flexible... 17:08:02 heh, sure I'll get right on that, I'll have it by Friday. 17:08:15 lol 17:08:32 Actually, I'd like to see something link the html parts in cgilib.tcl 17:08:52 Then it would be trivial to add new thml parts 17:09:08 interesting. 17:10:06 shagster: is that part of aolserver, or tcl? 17:11:01 it is Don Libbs(?) tcl cgi library, nt really part of anything 17:11:16 ok :) 17:12:06 hopefully with the new portal stuff and acs-workflow, no package should ever have to generate HTML at all. 17:12:45 yea, I really have to take a look at that stuff soon 17:13:08 * shagster . o O ( starts to bound aolserver 3.4.2 + openacs patches on OpenBSD ) 17:13:42 I figure after everyone builds a site or 2 with openacs 4, they will start fixing up all these little things to make their lives easier. 17:14:23 duh 17:16:57 shagster: you're putting together a package of AOLserver stuff, right? 17:18:08