IRC log of openacs on 2002-02-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:24:56 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
00:43:50 [Phirus]
Phirus (Phirus@pc3-camb3-0-cust24.cam.cable.ntl.com) has joined #OpenACS
00:44:09 [Phirus]
Can i ask a bit of a silly question.....
00:44:31 [Phirus]
Phirus has left #OpenACS
00:55:49 [davb]
darn, missed em
01:29:25 [jim]
Hi davb
01:30:09 [jim]
um, have you or has anyone noticed that certain versions of mozilla will crash every time when going to /doc?
01:30:42 [jim]
(maybe it's my own installation...)
01:43:37 [jim]
confirmed, it's my installation
01:55:01 [davb]
ah, yeah. I use mozilla all the time with /doc
01:56:18 [jim]
any really bad issues with bboard? I'm about to try using it with people in my music class...
01:58:11 [davb]
I think its fixed.
01:58:52 [davb]
but I have not tested it.
01:59:15 [davb]
I have to ask talli next time he's around. The code is beta quality so I think OpenACS.org should migrate.
02:00:09 [davb]
but that probably requires someone to watch it for issues. it pretty much takes care of itself now :)
02:01:01 [jim]
installing/removing didn't go well, as of 1/31 nightly
02:01:33 [davb]
tarball?
02:01:38 [jim]
yeah
02:01:43 [davb]
they were broken somewhere in there.
02:01:51 [davb]
I just use CVS and have been lucky :)
02:06:51 [davb]
I installed bboard ok. and I mounted it. lets see what it can do :)
02:08:12 [davb]
I installed, created a bboard and posted ok.
02:09:59 [davb]
I can't remember when don fixed the tarballs...
02:11:30 [rzolf]
rzolf (~rolf@above.badgertronics.com) has joined #openacs
02:19:13 [davb]
hi rzolf
02:26:14 [talilee__]
talilee__ (~talli@188.muka.lasv.snfccafj.dsl.att.net) has joined #openacs
02:26:22 [talilee__]
talilee__ has left #openacs
02:26:43 [talli]
talli (~talli@188.muka.lasv.snfccafj.dsl.att.net) has joined #openacs
02:26:48 [talli]
hey guys
02:27:50 [davb]
hi talli.
02:27:57 [davb]
I was just talking about you :)
02:28:33 [talli]
you and every woman in america
02:28:38 [davb]
woah
02:30:27 [talli]
what's up davb?
02:30:39 [davb]
anyway, I was saying that as long as the OpenACS 4 code is stable and we are just waiting for documentation, we should think about migrating openacs.org to openacs 4.
02:31:03 [talli]
yeah, we're just waiting for the bboard stuff to be ready
02:31:12 [davb]
it is not?
02:31:17 [talli]
it is
02:31:19 [davb]
or the stuff to convert it?
02:31:22 [talli]
i think
02:31:29 [talli]
the migration scripts are more or less ready
02:31:33 [davb]
ah. I know you have actual work to do :)
02:31:41 [talli]
:)
02:32:10 [davb]
but now that the beer population of the pacific northwest is under control...
02:32:19 [talli]
ugh
02:32:24 [talli]
i was sooooo hung over this morning
02:32:29 [talli]
that beer was AWESOME!!!
02:34:54 [davb]
sorry I missed it.
03:05:58 [rzolf]
hi davb.
03:06:03 [rzolf]
hi talli.
03:10:45 [rzolf]
what the:
03:10:48 [rzolf]
'm not into Epinions to make money as much as I am to attract the hot babes.
03:12:04 [davb]
is that talli's profile?
03:12:12 [rzolf]
haha.
03:12:28 [rzolf]
no, i think he trolls for hot babes on ebay, not epinions.
03:13:44 [davb]
oh right.
03:14:12 [talli]
i find my woman at camwhores.com
03:14:41 [rzolf]
who is this marc spitzer guy anyway.
03:14:45 [rzolf]
is that you , davb?
03:15:58 [talli]
i have a feeling he is one of the OACS community's many runaway libertarians and gun nuts
03:16:01 [davb]
no way :)
03:16:58 [rzolf]
haha.
03:17:23 [rzolf]
the weird thing about these guys
03:17:38 [rzolf]
(Well, aside from the fact that he started ranting about med insurance in the first place)
03:17:56 [rzolf]
is that they present the stories like this:
03:18:44 [rzolf]
"yeah well i've been laid off 3 times and only had $200 left in my bank account and was eating ramen"
03:18:53 [rzolf]
"and that's why the system should stay as it is!"
03:19:34 [talli]
i find it extremely impressive he was able to lay out such an attractive insurance plan
03:19:42 [talli]
i may ask him to broker my next mortgage
03:19:44 [rzolf]
like. i personally have been laid off and only had $200 in my bank account and have had no health insurance.
03:20:28 [rzolf]
and i'm thinkin g"wow it would be nice to live in a country where I could ride my bike to work and not have to worry about falling off and having an $7000 foot fracture"
03:20:42 [davb]
I wonder if that acs java guy will be back...
03:21:25 [rzolf]
people are totally odd. and of course, my opinion is the correct one.
03:22:08 [talli]
someone should post something about hilary clinton. just to see what spitzer says
03:22:12 [rzolf]
haha.
03:22:34 [rzolf]
sadly, the health insurance situation in this country is completely awful.
03:23:03 [rzolf]
aside from better roads, statistically, the US is looking more and more like "nigeria" every day.
03:23:47 [talli]
is that because we're being overrun by al queda or because we can't feed our children?
03:24:08 [rzolf]
i was thinking because the country is run by oil barons and their cronies.
03:27:52 [rzolf]
in any case
03:27:56 [talli]
well, last time i checked nigeria didn't have any britney spears equivalent, so i don't think it's fair to compare our level of depravity with theirs
03:27:56 [rzolf]
we're all doomed.
03:29:05 [rzolf]
its cool (?) in minneapolis, cuz there are a lot of very recent east african and nigerian immigrants.
03:29:07 [rzolf]
and
03:29:15 [rzolf]
there is this african-american radio station
03:29:18 [rzolf]
that has this talk show
03:29:26 [rzolf]
where people can call in
03:29:42 [rzolf]
and...it always devolves into :
03:29:55 [rzolf]
some eritrian guy will call in
03:30:07 [rzolf]
and start out innoculously
03:30:20 [rzolf]
"hi i love the show and am glad to be in this country"
03:30:22 [talli]
uh oh
03:30:32 [rzolf]
"i've got a great job bla bla bla"
03:30:38 [rzolf]
and the host is like "that's great"
03:31:02 [rzolf]
and then the caller will be like "i just had one question: why are nigerians such lazy, shiftless donkeys?"
03:31:14 [rzolf]
and keep it up
03:31:26 [rzolf]
until the host is like "uh...whoa ...er...hold on"
03:31:32 [rzolf]
then some nigerian guy will call in...
03:31:36 [rzolf]
its the same every show.
03:32:07 [rzolf]
i guess it isn't so good. but, it is kind of entertaining the first time you hear it.
03:32:22 [rzolf]
cuz it is a total suprise.
03:33:05 [talli]
that's almost as good as NYC public access television, the most beautifully perverse transmission of garbage in the world
03:33:13 [rzolf]
haha.
03:33:16 [rzolf]
oh man...
03:34:16 [rzolf]
i'm going to write a brief story about
03:34:24 [rzolf]
people who actually get laid off.
03:34:38 [talli]
one time, i saw this show put on a high ranking member of the Jewish Defense League
03:34:45 [rzolf]
uh oh.
03:34:50 [talli]
a group that is pretty close to Hamas
03:35:23 [talli]
he was ranting because he was being kicked off of Manhattan Public Access, a feat that requires quite a bit of work to accomplish
03:35:30 [rzolf]
haha
03:35:32 [rzolf]
uh oh.
03:35:35 [rzolf]
i can only imagine.
03:35:38 [talli]
it just so happened that the head of Manhattan New Network is black
03:36:02 [talli]
so as he was ranting about MNN and would refer to the president of the network, he would lift a photo of a gorilla
03:36:14 [rzolf]
:'-(
03:36:22 [talli]
and say the name of the president, pointing to the photo
03:36:33 [talli]
it was one of the most amazing things i had ever seen
03:36:56 [talli]
his rhetoric was almost as bad as hitler's, without explicitly saying anything about liquidation
03:37:02 [talli]
i mean, unlike sharon
03:37:04 [rzolf]
yikes.
03:37:08 [rzolf]
ugh.
03:37:15 [rzolf]
please, i'm just a gentile.
03:37:23 [rzolf]
don't make me think about these things.
03:37:26 [rzolf]
they just confuse me.
03:37:36 [talli]
:)
03:37:56 [rzolf]
i mean, us norwegians most certainly hate the swedes.
03:38:12 [talli]
and don't even start on this finns!
03:38:15 [rzolf]
but we don't have the desire to liquidate them.
03:38:29 [rzolf]
the finns aren't really scandinavians, we mostly ignore them.
03:38:35 [talli]
oh
03:38:46 [talli]
except during the olympic hockey tournament, right?
03:39:08 [rzolf]
i think geograhically they are lumped into scandinavia.
03:39:24 [rzolf]
but genetically they are more related to reindeer.
03:39:32 [talli]
haha
03:40:38 [talli]
i hear in Lapland, above the arctic circle, one can find reindeer tongue, coca cola and harrison ford movies at the local groceries
03:40:52 [talli]
just like when lief erricson was conquering the world
03:40:56 [rzolf]
yeah but you can find that in my home town.
03:41:08 [talli]
you're from lapland?
03:41:11 [rzolf]
no.
03:41:21 [talli]
oh, right
03:41:26 [talli]
minneapolis
03:41:27 [rzolf]
but you can get deer tongue at the quickie mart.
03:41:49 [rzolf]
i'm not really from minneapolis. i grew up in a town of 8000 closer to the canadian border.
03:41:52 [talli]
yowch
03:42:14 [rzolf]
my grandparents live in minneapolis, and i lived there for 5 years.
03:42:55 [talli]
ah, i see
03:43:35 [talli]
btw, remember to celebrate ronald reagan's bday today
03:43:40 [rzolf]
haha.
03:43:45 [talli]
his royal forgetful is 91
03:43:58 [rzolf]
yikes.
03:44:17 [rzolf]
i better start getting serious about kung fu or something.
03:44:30 [talli]
i don't want to be identified as anti-american or, worse, a liberal but when is that fucker gonna die?
03:44:33 [rzolf]
so that when i'm 91 i'm wily and mystical.
03:44:48 [rzolf]
instead of forgetful and tipsy.
03:44:58 [talli]
the dude must be a pile of plastic surgery
03:45:05 [rzolf]
are all those people who are into reagan serious?
03:45:14 [talli]
how can you live so fucking long with alzheimer's? maybe he really is a marrionette
03:47:59 [davb]
well I'm off. Good night.
03:48:09 [talli]
seeya davb
03:48:20 [rzolf]
whoa who is tom hickerson.
03:48:51 [rzolf]
and also, the only H1Bs (aside from Yon) were from like...canada.
03:48:58 [rzolf]
who cares what happens to them.
03:48:59 [talli]
haha
03:49:44 [talli]
devlogics
03:49:54 [talli]
they are important to the US economy
03:49:56 [davb]
davb has quit ("Client Exiting")
03:50:09 [rzolf]
would that be too rude to post.
03:50:09 [talli]
devlogics is the foundation upon which we all sleep restfully
03:50:19 [rzolf]
"most of the H1Bs were canadian. who cares?"
03:50:24 [talli]
haha
03:50:45 [talli]
well, since you're practically a canadian, i think it would be ok
03:53:29 [rzolf]
honestly though.
03:53:33 [rzolf]
who is this guy.
03:53:45 [rzolf]
and why does he think arsdigita had a lot of H1Bs.
03:54:18 [rzolf]
there were like 5 h1bs. and they were all from countries that had better standards of living than the US.
03:56:46 [rzolf]
what is devlogics.
03:56:56 [talli]
http://www.devlogics.com
03:56:57 [chump]
A: http://www.devlogics.com from talli
03:57:03 [rzolf]
why do i feel as though i've just entered into a separate "Bizzaro" universe.
03:57:06 [talli]
even better, check out http://www.coddo.com
03:57:15 [talli]
that last one will put you over the top
03:57:26 [talli]
truly hilarious
03:58:37 [rzolf]
wow what's the story with coddo.
03:58:53 [talli]
they are weirdo
03:59:17 [rzolf]
what's the deal with offshore development anyway.
03:59:37 [rzolf]
do these guys really come in and say "we can do your project for $150."
03:59:45 [rzolf]
or is it more like
03:59:53 [talli]
for a while, coddo had a link to "We and our Fishtank"
04:00:29 [rzolf]
"your project will cost $150,000, but you can be rest assured our salesguy in the US will take $120,000, and split the remaining $30K amonst the 50 programmer dev team"
04:00:52 [talli]
have you ever been in india?
04:00:55 [rzolf]
no.
04:01:23 [talli]
i bet their developers were chosen because they were the only rickshaw drivers that didn't have bloody gums
04:01:29 [rzolf]
haha.
04:02:07 [rzolf]
i'm just wondering, do offshore firms really underbid by a significant margin.
04:02:17 [talli]
yes
04:03:10 [talli]
and companies like them because there is low developer turnover, or so they assume
04:03:16 [rzolf]
ah.
04:03:34 [talli]
it's hard to get away from your computer when you're tied to your desk and the bar has windows
04:03:38 [rzolf]
haha.
04:03:43 [talli]
or, the windows have bars
04:03:52 [talli]
whichever works more effectively
04:04:07 [rzolf]
poor indian code sweatshop laborers.
04:04:14 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-25-113.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
04:04:26 [rzolf]
uh oh.
04:04:37 [docwolf]
outta my way, wimps
04:04:46 [talli]
speaking of oppressive sweatshop barons...
04:04:58 [talli]
rzolf, how's that whip feel nowadays?
04:05:00 [docwolf]
you! no talking! back to coding!
04:05:13 [docwolf]
i've been feeding him gruel, too
04:05:19 [rzolf]
yeah if i dont finish this javascript. i'm going to have to keep living off weird tubers.
04:05:21 [talli]
please sir, might have more?
04:05:46 [docwolf]
javascript, day 3
04:05:46 [talli]
man. javascript, huh?
04:05:58 [talli]
talk about cross-platform compatibility
04:06:29 [talli]
gonna have one of those "we strongly recommend IE 6.132 service pack 92 to view this site"?
04:06:33 [docwolf]
rzolf hasn't moved from his desk in nearly a week. you should see this page.
04:06:52 [docwolf]
this is the "sum of all fears" javascript page
04:06:59 [rzolf]
the whole site consists of a single 1.5MB javascript class.
04:07:09 [docwolf]
haha
04:08:02 [talli]
how's debugging that javascript page coming along?
04:08:08 [rzolf]
i have a feeling that the whole "outsource to india" thing is really not the money at all.
04:08:56 [rzolf]
its because corporate managers like to feel like plantation lords of yesteryear.
04:09:16 [docwolf]
haha
04:09:28 [rzolf]
just having a couple stinky white guys come in and finish business up in a couple months is too foreign to comprehend.
04:09:52 [rzolf]
it is more satisfying to feel like you are lording over a team of hundreds
04:10:03 [talli]
yes, and caucasians don't respond to linen suits as obediently
04:10:24 [rzolf]
and the offshore part means you can abstract away the distasteful parts of plantation ownership
04:10:33 [rzolf]
like the stench, and the pleading
04:12:02 [rzolf]
its just like the distaste a lawyer feels when he goes to get his mercedes serviced.
04:12:16 [rzolf]
"Wow this crufty mechanic bills out as much as i do"
04:12:35 [rzolf]
no IT manager wants to pay a couple guys more than he makes.
04:12:48 [talli]
well, it's not as bad as when he goes to get his S&M fetish serviced
04:12:53 [rzolf]
haha.
04:13:03 [talli]
our first office was below an S&M parlor
04:13:07 [rzolf]
yikes.
04:13:17 [rzolf]
i always thought S&M parlors were in the basement.
04:13:21 [talli]
the super told us the domanatrix charged like 450 an hour
04:13:38 [talli]
in the basement, or on the third floor of 4 west 37th
04:14:01 [rzolf]
whoa.
04:18:39 [rzolf]
hm docwolf, dannie ashe apparently made $8M last year.
04:18:44 [talli]
whoa
04:18:46 [rzolf]
maybe we need to change focus of this software.
04:18:54 [docwolf]
yikes
04:19:02 [docwolf]
i've been working out...
04:19:02 [rzolf]
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020206/en/review-televisionporn_1.html
04:19:04 [chump]
B: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020206/en/review-televisionporn_1.html from rzolf
04:19:08 [docwolf]
but i'm still not that comfortable with my appearance
04:19:35 [docwolf]
however, that's what photoshop was made for
04:19:52 [talli]
and penile enhancement too
04:20:10 [docwolf]
hehe
04:21:47 [rzolf]
also. why is XML RPC supposed to be interesting?
04:22:25 [docwolf]
you are not down with the radiobloggers.. you ain't nothing
04:23:01 [talli]
xmlrpc is cool because it will provide more interactivity during live nude scenes
04:23:53 [rzolf]
what does it actually do. didn't people mainly decide not to use the real "RPC" because it was a huge security risk and only marginally useful?
04:29:14 [rzolf]
must finish javascript. lator.
04:29:15 [rzolf]
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13:39:50 [davb]
Hello
13:43:55 [shagster]
Hello
13:44:00 [davb]
qmail is trying to kill me
13:44:17 [shagster]
qmail is simple, what's wrong ?
13:45:20 [davb]
For some reason when I get mail from nycap.rr.com's mail server (my ISP) to one of my domains, it bounces saying the domain is not in rcpthosts, although it is. That domain can get mail frm any other mail server no problem.
13:46:40 [davb]
ie. mail to dave@thedesignexperience.org is OK, but dave@deepskydesign.com bounces. But only if its routed through mail.nycap.rr.com or whatever their server is.
13:47:07 [markd2]
is the 'not in recpthosts' coming from your box?
13:47:15 [shagster]
and you email a copy of the output of /var/qmail/bin/qmail-showctl to mkovach@alal.com ?
13:48:01 [markd2]
* markd2 learns a new command
13:48:02 [markd2]
thanks!
13:50:07 [shagster]
showctl is great for debuggin
13:50:37 [davb]
sure! thanks!
13:50:45 [davb]
markd2, yeah, I checked :)
13:52:13 [davb]
wow thats cool
13:52:47 [davb]
ola: check that out sometime
13:54:32 [alltelsucks]
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alltelsucks is now known as markd2
14:06:26 [ola]
cool stuff, shagster :-)
14:06:41 [ola]
dave: do you have deepskydesign.com in rcpthosts?
14:07:21 [ola]
courier is working. Ta-Da!
14:08:57 [davb]
ola: yes :)
14:09:03 [davb]
ola: yippee!
14:09:10 [ola]
:-)
14:09:56 [ola]
only, I must see what's wrong with imap-ssl.
14:11:09 [davb]
ah, I never set that up. :)
14:11:47 [ola]
it was at least two symlinks missing/bad paths in the 1.4.2 courier-imap package (testing)!!!
14:12:55 [davb]
ah :) tricky.
14:15:17 [ola]
dave: your telnet trick was the key to salvation, I believe, thanks for your help!
14:15:51 [davb]
np. I think I got it from markd2> telnet is always handy for seeing what is really happening with network software.
14:17:13 [ola]
telnet: you can't live with it, and you can't live without it. :-)
14:18:00 [davb]
heh
14:18:28 [markd2]
telnet's great for everything but actually logging in somewhere :-)
14:19:15 [ola]
ok. so telnetd is bad..
14:20:47 [ola]
wait! I must have telnetd to monitor my services, no?
14:21:06 [markd2]
like to telnet to port 80 of a webserver?
14:21:55 [davb]
I don't have a need for telnetd that I am aware of.
14:22:00 [ola]
ahh! you're right..
14:22:17 [davb]
telnet is a generic network client I guess :)
14:22:49 [ola]
but if I want to monitor my port 22...;-)
14:24:31 [ola]
anyone tried the new PG 7.2?
14:25:11 [ola]
...with OACS 4.
14:25:48 [davb]
not me. vinod made a change I think to make it work though.
14:33:30 [davb]
oh yeah, i left it out of my email, I did use life with qmail :)
14:47:44 [shagster]
[to davb]: good for you :)
14:48:18 [shagster]
I just replied to your email, best bet is to use recordio to log a failed mail transaction, that should give you move info :)
14:49:32 [davb]
thanks
14:50:00 [davb]
that is the main thing to learn. what tools I can use to see what is really going on :)
14:51:19 [shagster]
davb: recordio is neat. I basicaly writes a copy of everything a file descriptor
14:56:01 [davb]
ah, I should have guessed it was by djb :)
14:56:25 [shagster]
Yea, its nice...
14:57:07 [davb]
ah for some reason I thought it wasn't installed.
14:57:09 [davb]
thanks.
14:58:31 [davb]
weird, empire state college appears to have removed the online application option...
15:00:43 [davb]
ah, i found it, weird there is no link to it anywhere...
15:17:28 [ola]
I can't believe how many people try to conect to my port 21.
15:17:52 [ola]
mostly from my ISP's network...
15:18:04 [markd2]
probably a bunch of compromised windows boxes
15:18:18 [ola]
yeah
15:18:36 [ola]
and also port 111 is very popular.
15:19:06 [davb]
Check this out : http://www.devlogics.com/resources.html
15:21:03 [markd2]
aD tried subcontracting out a lot of stuff to them
15:21:12 [markd2]
like acs/java bboard / faq, and a couple of others
15:21:19 [markd2]
it was a disaster from what I understand
15:21:21 [davb]
ah.
15:21:32 [markd2]
but I dunno if it was because devlogics didn't ahve clue, or that acs/java was such a bad base to start from
15:21:42 [davb]
The tutorials are interesting. I wasn;t able to tell if they are from somewhere else or original.
15:23:07 [davb]
wow, anyone else have any trouble frm google? They are slow, sometimes not loading at all.
15:25:18 [markd2]
google's fast for me
15:25:23 [ola]
it feels responsive to me
15:25:24 [markd2]
usually I can track down google problems to my ISP :-)
15:25:35 [markd2]
hey davb - where did DavesCreature come from?
15:25:56 [davb]
I suspected the ISP.
15:26:04 [davb]
markd2: let me find the link.
15:26:41 [davb]
http://cvs.espra.net/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/creature/
15:26:41 [chump]
C: http://cvs.espra.net/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/creature/ from davb
15:26:46 [davb]
C:|Where the creature lives
15:26:47 [chump]
titled item C
15:27:22 [davb]
No documentation, it might work :)
15:31:57 [markd2]
thanks
15:34:45 [ola]
should this be a problem? # telnet 127.0.0.1 993 (imaps port)
15:35:07 [ola]
courier-imap-ssl IS running...
15:35:42 [ola]
also I get this in /var/log/syslog:
15:35:44 [ola]
Feb 7 17:32:42 hal imapd-ssl: starttls: accept: error:140760FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_CLIENT_HELLO:unknown protocol
15:40:07 [shagster]
ola, of course you'll get that....telnet can't start an SSL connection
15:40:40 [shagster]
There is a way to use stunnel (or such) to test...I can't remember it right off hand
15:41:04 [shagster]
You might try a quick goold search: imap ssl test telnet
15:41:11 [shagster]
* shagster . o O ( I think that is how I found it )
15:42:21 [ola]
uhoh! thanks. heh. I'll google if all else fails (or should I begin with that?)
15:43:28 [shagster]
You basically have to use openssl or something to create the SSL connection. I've only done it once
15:52:40 [davb]
heh, I never notice the connection re: new iMac and Luxo Jr, the star of Pixar's first animation short (also in the logo) :)
15:53:19 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-34-227-75.bct.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
16:00:35 [markd2]
ilamp!
16:00:40 [markd2]
I saw one in person last night
16:04:03 [davb]
was it ugly?
16:04:14 [davb]
I have been hearing reports it is not as spiffy in person.
16:04:28 [markd2]
I thouhgt it was pretty cute
16:04:33 [davb]
cool.
16:04:33 [markd2]
the screen / arm mechansim is really smooth
16:04:41 [davb]
neat.
16:04:53 [davb]
I have to trick my wife into buying one with the tax refund :)
16:05:00 [markd2]
heh
16:05:10 [markd2]
as with many apple products, I want one, but don't really need it
16:05:14 [markd2]
so I'll just drool from the sidelines
16:06:24 [davb]
Now that the new power macs are out, I would probably save up for one of those and get the big display.
16:06:35 [markd2]
yeah
16:53:28 [shagster]
Oh, just want I need a "cute" computer :)
16:55:50 [davb]
http://www.mab3d.com/images/quicktimepop02.html
16:55:51 [chump]
D: http://www.mab3d.com/images/quicktimepop02.html from davb
16:55:57 [davb]
D:|iLuxo
16:55:57 [chump]
titled item D
16:58:28 [davb]
hmmmm. all OpenACS procs that produce HTML should take a "class" parameter to be stuff in the tag so I can do CSS magic with it.
17:00:58 [ola]
goog idea. and "background" should be implemented in default-master.tcl/adp ...
17:01:06 [ola]
s/goog/good
17:01:14 [davb]
that yoy can do yourself :)
17:01:26 [ola]
sure. :-)
17:04:33 [davb]
I mean if we use standard ids and classes for CSS a designer can just change the css and the code will never need to be touched.
17:04:50 [davb]
I should not have to hack ad_context_bar :)
17:07:40 [ola]
we need separation of SQL/Tcl/HTML/css - wow, the system is getting flexible...
17:08:02 [davb]
heh, sure I'll get right on that, I'll have it by Friday.
17:08:15 [ola]
lol
17:08:32 [shagster]
Actually, I'd like to see something link the html parts in cgilib.tcl
17:08:52 [shagster]
Then it would be trivial to add new thml parts
17:09:08 [davb]
interesting.
17:10:06 [davb]
shagster: is that part of aolserver, or tcl?
17:11:01 [shagster]
it is Don Libbs(?) tcl cgi library, nt really part of anything
17:11:16 [davb]
ok :)
17:12:06 [davb]
hopefully with the new portal stuff and acs-workflow, no package should ever have to generate HTML at all.
17:12:45 [shagster]
yea, I really have to take a look at that stuff soon
17:13:08 [shagster]
* shagster . o O ( starts to bound aolserver 3.4.2 + openacs patches on OpenBSD )
17:13:42 [davb]
I figure after everyone builds a site or 2 with openacs 4, they will start fixing up all these little things to make their lives easier.
17:14:23 [davb]
duh
17:16:57 [ola]
shagster: you're putting together a package of AOLserver stuff, right?
17:18:08 [ola]
if so, is it based on 3.4.2 or 3.3ad13?
17:20:21 [shagster]
Right now, 3.3ad13, but I'm moving stuff to 3.4.2
17:21:37 [shagster]
If the patches stay fair close, I'll maintain both till 3.4.2 has some of the i8n stuff that 3.3ad13 does
17:21:49 [ola]
ok. I'm just worrying about vhosting....
17:22:29 [shagster]
Once I get things stablized I bit, I'm going to look at that too..
17:22:56 [shagster]
basically reverse proxy (apache/squid) vhosting works fairly well...
17:23:16 [ola]
wow. cool. :-)
17:23:19 [shagster]
the nsvhr patches really only work well on Linux...(from my testing)
17:23:29 [ola]
aha.
17:24:42 [davb]
ola: yeah, I think that apache/squid is the real answer for virtual hosting.
17:24:46 [shagster]
Vhosting is really something I"m going to wait on till after OpenACS 4 final is out
17:25:05 [dlk]
dlk is now known as dlk-feeding
17:25:07 [shagster]
Then I think I'm going to invest some time in vhosting alternatives
17:26:13 [shagster]
Oh no......
17:26:30 [shagster]
"Subject: Intern Code Review"
17:26:42 [markd2]
heh
17:26:57 [markd2]
aD should have done that with some of their inerns
17:27:43 [til]
til (tils@B3b2c.pppool.de) has joined #openacs
17:28:42 [shagster]
[to markd2]: Yes, but I hate doing it....
17:28:54 [markd2]
turn it into a drinking game
17:29:32 [shagster]
There isn't enough beer in this part of the country for me to do that .. LOL
17:30:23 [davb]
then you could recruit OpenACS hackers
17:30:42 [davb]
heh, maybe we should do that for OpenACS :)
17:31:22 [shagster]
"Abstract: Beer Based Rewards System for OpenACS Code Review"
17:31:46 [markd2]
markd2 has changed the topic to: OpenACS: Free Web Application Toolkit | http://openacs.org | Sense of humor (and/or beer) mandatory
17:34:15 [davb]
* davb hacks ad_context_bar
17:35:12 [davb]
cool it worked.
17:41:42 [davb]
argh.
17:42:02 [davb]
nm.
17:42:04 [davb]
I got smart.
17:42:28 [davb]
I can just use a different stylesheet for sections that need to look different, and class names stay they same.
17:51:25 [ola]
shagster: I installed telnet-ssl and then did: # telnet -z ssl 127.0.0.1 imaps, and voila! :-)
17:59:44 [jim]
you mean... I'
17:59:45 [til]
til has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:00:01 [jim]
have been misspelling walla all these years?? :)
18:01:07 [markd2]
walla-walla-washington
18:01:07 [ola]
heh. hi jim.
18:01:24 [jim]
re ola
18:05:55 [jim]
OK, I wanna set up a content type and make content items and revisions... by hand :)
18:06:04 [talli]
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18:18:09 [echarp]
echarp is now known as ecFirst
18:38:12 [jim]
I'll get to that later, it seems... sheesh...
18:38:14 [dlk-feeding]
dlk-feeding is now known as dlk
18:43:16 [davb]
wow, css is almost fun
18:43:27 [markd2]
is it saner to use these days?
18:43:39 [davb]
as long as you ignore netscape 4 :)
18:43:45 [markd2]
ah
18:43:51 [davb]
actually I will have to test it in other browsers. there is a set of
18:44:06 [davb]
tags that kill netscape 4, so you put them in a file and use @import
18:44:23 [davb]
which it doesn't understand, so it ignores those styles.
18:55:04 [dlk]
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18:56:57 [davb]
argh.
18:57:35 [davb]
hey does mentioning godwin's law by describing its effects count as invoking it?
18:57:47 [davb]
if so.... someone just did on the openacs bboard.
18:57:56 [talli]
yeah
18:57:58 [talli]
annoying
18:58:16 [davb]
not really necessary, oh well.
19:03:32 [davb]
css is not as forgiving as html tables, but once you get the hang of it, it is very useful.
19:10:58 [jim]
Hi, having a problem with general comments/static pages... this is the nightly tarball from 1/31... when I scan for pages, it can't find em
19:11:09 [markd2]
davb: you might be interesting in CodeBitch
19:11:13 [markd2]
http://macedition.com/cb/cb_current.php
19:11:16 [chump]
E: http://macedition.com/cb/cb_current.php from markd2
19:11:21 [markd2]
E:| CodeBitch at MacEdition
19:11:21 [chump]
titled item E
19:11:34 [markd2]
E: Big into standards-complaint webbyness, CSS, etc
19:11:36 [chump]
commented item E
19:12:03 [davb]
jim: hmmm
19:12:27 [davb]
jim: did you restart? I had to restart after mounting the package.
19:12:42 [davb]
I think it has to do with the parameters. they are not loaded when a package is mounted.
19:13:03 [davb]
markd2: cool
19:27:20 [irc.openprojects.net]
Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer)
19:27:44 [loggy]
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19:27:44 [zahn.openprojects.net]
topic is: OpenACS: Free Web Application Toolkit | http://openacs.org | Sense of humor (and/or beer) mandatory
19:27:44 [zahn.openprojects.net]
Users on #OpenACS: loggy beattiek shagster ecFirst_ docwolf davb ola andyn jim chump jabba_ djg Psychephylax
19:27:45 [ChanServ]
[#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
19:28:57 [davb]
http://www.web-graphics.com/mtarchive/000300.php#000300
19:28:57 [chump]
F: http://www.web-graphics.com/mtarchive/000300.php#000300 from davb
19:29:14 [davb]
F:|Bookmarklet (javascript) to show div and span borders
19:29:14 [chump]
titled item F
19:30:08 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd2@r-41.73.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
19:42:49 [shagster]
I never though I would see the day Godwin's Law would be invoked on the OpenACS Forum
19:43:07 [jim]
davb: that was it, forgot to restart server
19:43:32 [jim]
did it succeed in halting discussion? :)
19:43:51 [shagster]
Now, they just continued on...shame..shame..
19:44:58 [davb]
but not about the subjects godwin's law refers to :)
19:45:10 [markd2]
I think Godwin's law was brought up inappropriately
19:45:19 [markd2]
since nobody actually did invoke nazis, etc before that
19:45:33 [davb]
ah, so it doesn't count.
19:46:23 [markd2]
yeah
19:46:36 [docwolf]
maybe someone can put that fc.com thread down
19:46:42 [docwolf]
by just saying "greenspun was a nazi"
19:46:46 [docwolf]
and ending it totally
19:47:08 [markd2]
I remember an "inspirational message" to the company involving nazis
19:47:14 [docwolf]
HAHA
19:47:18 [docwolf]
that was priceless
19:47:19 [markd2]
something to effect of "they were ruthlessly efficient, so we should be to"
19:47:32 [docwolf]
that would be awesome to post to FC ;-)
19:47:37 [docwolf]
i don't have a copy of it any more
19:47:49 [docwolf]
it happened just around the time I joined. Too funny.
19:48:34 [markd2]
that should have been a Big Warning
19:48:52 [docwolf]
it's hard to imagine anyone writing that letter and thinking, "you know, this is a good idea."
20:05:12 [til]
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20:06:16 [markd2]
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20:14:07 [jim]
ok, new problem...
20:14:42 [jim]
maybe this one is too faqy... but *.txt rendered as text/html
20:14:58 [jim]
want em as text/plain
20:15:30 [jim]
but there's another way I can go too
20:22:28 [jim]
say I have a file full of lines that look like this:
20:22:39 [jim]
"<jim> say I have a file full of lines that look like this:"
20:22:53 [jim]
and I want the server to render those,
20:23:43 [jim]
if it ends up being rendered as text/html, I'm thinking I can replace all the < with &88; or soemthing like that
20:25:57 [talli]
talli (~talli@188.muka.lasv.snfccafj.dsl.att.net) has joined #openacs
20:29:48 [jim]
in a web page, how do I say a character in hex or decimal?
20:29:59 [jim]
&50; or something like that?
20:31:18 [til]
jim: &#88;
20:31:44 [til]
jim: < and > can also be represented by: &lt; and &gt;
20:45:07 [jim]
ahh, ok
20:49:00 [ola]
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20:53:08 [til]
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21:23:50 [davb]
gotta go
21:23:54 [davb]
davb has quit ()
21:40:45 [jim]
til: thanks :)
21:41:03 [jim]
ok, I'm gonna have to try my luck at the cvs...
21:43:30 [jim]
could someone give me url for how to get oacs-4 from cvs?
22:13:04 [shagster]
[to jim]: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage
22:13:44 [shagster]
There is instructions in the freebsd install docs and a few remains docs (sorry, can't remember right off hand)
22:31:06 [talli]
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22:32:38 [jim]
thank you :)
23:02:31 [markd2]
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23:03:05 [davb]
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23:05:02 [markd2]
telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
23:05:28 [davb]
hi
23:05:33 [davb]
jim: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/cvs.html?version_id=140
23:05:47 [davb]
use the source, jim :)
23:15:50 [davb]
bbl..windows games
23:15:52 [davb]
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23:16:22 [docwolf]
greg is nuts :-)
23:16:29 [markd2]
heh
23:16:40 [markd2]
* markd2 heils
23:17:14 [docwolf]
hehe
23:17:37 [docwolf]
we really do need to construct a comprehensive archive
23:17:55 [docwolf]
i've got some _awesome_ flammage from the Ann Arbor office fiasco
23:18:16 [markd2]
whoa
23:18:20 [markd2]
I don't think I've seen much of that
23:18:34 [docwolf]
it was mostly between the folks living in A2
23:18:36 [docwolf]
and philip & ern
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