00:44:42 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 01:44:22 wooo! 01:44:25 :-) 01:44:32 http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/casemod/ 01:44:32 A: http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/casemod/ from Psychephylax 01:44:40 A:| What 300$ buys you 01:44:41 titled item A 01:44:49 A: But I doubt it's worth it...Only time will tell 01:44:50 commented item A 01:57:17 vinod_ (~vinod@216-164-248-226.s2702.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 02:05:59 vinod_ is now known as vinod 02:07:11 hey Vinod 02:07:20 --> http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/nblyumbe/casemod/ 02:08:45 ack - i think i need thumbnails ;-) (damn dialup!) 02:09:01 lol 02:09:02 awww 02:09:05 it's worth it 02:09:09 in my opinion :P 02:10:01 i know - i'm just complaining :-) 02:10:08 cool! 02:10:14 like the window 02:10:37 is that a "windows programming for dummies" book i see? 02:10:45 for shame 02:11:54 Game programming 02:11:55 yeah 02:12:06 Hey, blame some idiot who wanted to use it as a *gasp* textbook! 02:12:24 ahh :-) 02:12:40 haha 02:14:42 :) 02:20:28 All of those mods...pre-made 02:20:29 lol 02:20:33 Just spend enough money 02:22:24 i like the case - looks very industrial 02:29:21 hi! 02:31:29 hey dave 02:31:41 Did you see my purty picturesque show of my computer? 02:31:56 hey davb! 02:33:08 yeah. very cool. 02:33:25 I like the logo on the window with the green light. 02:33:35 now you need aluminum floppy and cd drives :) 02:33:41 lol 02:33:45 There's always paint!!! 02:34:02 ah right. that switch under the floppy is for the light? 02:34:16 yep 02:34:23 Also how loud is it with those fans? 02:34:35 VERY 02:35:02 there's two on the front you can't see 02:35:07 Supposedly you need less fans with an aluminum case because the case transfers heat much better than steel. 02:35:10 oh my :) 02:35:11 and one right above the processor 02:35:19 yeah that is HUGE 02:35:54 I need a hard drive 02:35:56 and some round cables 02:36:28 right, I wish I could remember where I saw that howto... 02:36:37 I bet its in the chump somewhere. 02:36:59 the round cable one? 02:37:16 yeah 02:37:26 try this: 02:37:29 http://www.hardocp.com/articles/cooling/round_cables_howto/round_cable_howto_pg1.html 02:37:29 B: http://www.hardocp.com/articles/cooling/round_cables_howto/round_cable_howto_pg1.html from davb 02:37:38 B:|Round IDE Cables HOWTO 02:37:38 titled item B 02:37:56 beattiek: or google 02:38:00 beattiek: http://www.google.com/search?q=round+ide+cable+make+your+own&sourceid=mozilla-search 02:38:04 argh 02:38:07 B:or google 02:38:07 commented item B 02:38:12 B:http://www.google.com/search?q=round+ide+cable+make+your+own&sourceid=mozilla-search 02:38:12 commented item B 02:39:31 also check out that ad on the right for the google search :) 02:39:48 the ads are diff for each person I think 02:40:21 and Also, this stuff can damage stuff even he wasn't manly enough to do the 80 wire cable 02:40:33 shouldn't be, the go by search term I think... 02:40:39 heh. 02:40:52 yeah I don't think I would touch an 80 wire cable either. 02:41:10 I have a set of 40 wire ones somewhere in an old case. 02:41:21 wait, nope, they are SCSI-II 02:42:24 ouch $15.99 for the IDE cable 02:42:30 yep 02:42:35 that 36" though... 02:42:36 14$ 02:42:39 for 24" 02:42:56 yeah but that one looks pretty well made. 02:43:05 no green though :( 02:43:05 yeah 02:43:13 the really well made ones are the expensive ones 02:43:22 they're actually even shielded so there's no cross-interference 02:43:29 oh cool. 02:45:02 so Psychephylax: I have 4 weeks to get a demo site going.... 02:45:10 heh 02:45:12 sounds fun 02:45:17 I hope :) 02:45:44 I just need a couple of little applications and they all should use the same code. Most of it is already written luckily/ 02:46:07 cool 02:46:37 * Psychephylax departs to play some video gamez 02:46:41 bye 02:46:49 I'll be back in like 15 min 02:46:51 that's all I can take 02:46:56 davb: is this the secret project? 02:47:06 vinod: yeah :) 02:47:15 I am going to use a super modified ETP. 02:47:27 cool! t minus 28 days and counting ;-) 02:47:41 I am going to hack in my changes and then hopefully clean it up to release back. 02:48:05 Ironically, if he doesn't get any money, I will have more time to clean up the code than if he does :) 02:48:15 haha 02:48:27 we don't need no stinkin clean code - just give us the slop! 02:48:38 I spent today fixing a bug in wimpypoint that I thought was a bug in ETP. :) 02:48:56 ouch 02:49:03 Well I learned alot :) 02:49:27 yeah, that's true. although i end up forgetting it all and having a deja vu moment after i've relearned it all again :-) 02:49:43 heh, if you take too long a break, yep. 02:49:58 Hehe, for me 8 hours is too long :) 02:50:07 haha 02:50:16 that's why shagster never sleeps 02:50:19 * shagster . o O ( On a good day ) 02:50:31 Correct... 02:51:13 I also made a minor modification to acs_object__delete so ETP can use its own content_types instead of content_revision. 02:51:19 vinod, thanks for the pg-config info, 02:51:41 shagster: no problem - i just happened to notice it yesterday - hadn't seen it before 02:52:16 that will really help on my end 02:53:31 cool - your aolserver distro is a godsend. type "./conf" and that's it! (i deleted almost a page and a half of docs now) :-) 02:53:48 wow! that is very cool. 02:55:07 it installs aolserver, with the bsd, uuencode and uid/gid patches, all the modules, as well as your choice of db-drivers 02:55:32 I try :) 02:55:33 that is very nice. 02:55:45 i think if we push shagster a bit, we could get "press this button to start your ecommerce site now" distro 02:56:04 I got lazy, I like thing simple so I can understand them 02:56:20 (and stole quite a bit from the basic qmail install) 02:56:29 vinod: jim was talking earlier about making an app with ETP as a built-in home page so you can just start editing your site as soon as its installed. 02:56:35 [to vinod]: with some work that would be too hard :) 02:56:52 Umm..wouldn't be too hard... 02:56:56 davb: yeah, that sounds like a good idea 02:57:14 i installed zope the other day, and that's what it was like 02:57:23 aiigghh 02:57:25 I am really start to like ETP 02:57:59 did i say i installed zope? no... i ... uh... 02:58:26 * vinod starts wiping any evidence from his machine 02:58:29 shagster: have you used ETP for any sites? or just testing? 02:58:39 Actually if I could get myself to like Python, zope would be slightly okay :) 02:59:01 [to davb]: Just testing and learning right now... 02:59:28 oh yeah, I want workflow and user submitted content for ETP. then it will be super. I will only need that package for most sites :) 03:00:45 Actually I;m working on a vpopmail/qmailadmin/sqwebmail OpenACS version. ETP doesn't help on that front but code is easy to understand 03:00:54 It has been quite helpful 03:01:06 shagster: that is really cool! the vpop etc.... 03:01:13 Yep.... 03:01:35 of course, I should just start paying someone to handle my email... 03:01:50 I want to make a central server for my email services 03:02:28 good idea. 03:02:41 * davb agrees with everything ahead of time to save bandwidth.... 03:03:03 [to davb]: that is what I do main right now, email 03:03:06 see 03:03:08 back already 03:03:24 there goes the party, heh 03:03:25 shagster: I thought so :) 03:04:34 But now that I'm not doing BP's email I can actually do -new- things :) 03:05:09 cool. 03:05:12 uhoh, bug 03:05:22 I tried to delete an unmounted package... 03:05:38 It's not a bug...it's an issue..LOL 03:06:44 Damn! Doesn't look like I got accepted to Junkyard Wars :( 03:07:07 did you really sign up? 03:07:18 I can barely find time to watch it :) 03:07:22 Yep.... 03:07:34 did you see the new ultimate battle machines? 03:07:55 My tapes was pretty bad, didn't have time to do a good job...we'll try next time... 03:08:12 [to davb]: Sure did...that might be the next one I enter 03:08:20 very cool. 03:08:36 My dad and I are looking at it ... 03:08:46 argh its that PG referential integrity screwiness again. 03:08:54 didn't ANYONE try this :) 03:09:15 Heh, bug testing is always hard 03:09:41 * vinod looks sheepish 03:09:47 yeah, you have to mount a package and then say, oops wrong package, unmount it, then decide to delete it :) 03:09:53 i think i tried that once and it bombed 03:10:04 i *meant* to figure it out 03:10:07 ok, I'll leave you in charge :) 03:10:09 * vinod looks sheepish again 03:11:10 * shagster passed beer to vinod and davb 'what bug?' :) 03:11:28 It is a PG "feature" that in a transaction, it checked the fk referential inegrity, so if you delete something, and then try to delete the something that it refers to in the same transaction it breaks :) 03:11:31 wow thanks! 03:11:55 note to dave: look at apm_pacakge__delete tomorrow 03:12:01 mmmm beeer 03:12:45 I love 1 mile from one the best local brewery in Cleveland1 03:13:14 which one is that? 03:13:27 Great Lake Brewery 03:13:37 actually this looks like a real bug. 03:13:45 Burning River, Elliot Ness, good beer 03:13:59 subsite creates an application group, but its never deleted. 03:14:12 because the apm doesn't know about it. 03:14:29 shagster: my cousin lives in cleveland - i'll have to suggest that next time i'm there 03:14:46 Next time your here...let me know 03:15:05 will do! 03:15:39 cool, road trip. 03:15:47 sounds like a good place for an OpenACS social :) 03:15:54 cleveland's not too far from you davb :-) 03:15:59 9 hours 03:16:17 and 2 dinosaur bar-b-qs on the way :) 03:16:18 Kewl :) 03:16:48 Come to Cleveland for a OpenACS social, crash at shagster house :) 03:17:14 Ok. I wonder how to fix that...an application group linked to a package instance, so you can't delete the instance without removing the group. 03:17:28 * davb checks the SDM 03:18:36 From what I have looked through, aren't groups still slightly broke? 03:21:08 probably, but this is different. the group is referring back to the package_id of the subsite instance, but apm_pacakge__delete has no way of checking that... 03:21:24 well, fix it :) 03:21:47 heh, I don't quite have the time to dig into the core again today :) 03:22:01 I'm looking for an nice easy way to do MIME attachments using TCL 03:22:32 to send or receive? or both? 03:23:10 both.... 03:23:14 ah. 03:23:32 OK. I think there IS an easy fix. It is just the application group tha trefers to a package_id. 03:23:36 I'm try to have a good OpenACS/AOLserver solution 03:23:42 right. 03:24:01 is there anything in C that can do it? ns_mime? 03:24:31 I think I could yank so gnome of sqwebmail code.... 03:24:44 but I'd like to _not_ do that.... 03:24:54 of course. that can get messy. 03:25:10 there must be some email code for TCL around somewhere. 03:25:13 What I don't want is 'here is webmail, Install these 3 packages' 03:25:20 right. 03:25:24 There is, but it can be slow... 03:25:48 TCLLIB might be the way 03:26:03 and I don't think say 'Install tcllib-1.1' would be that bad... 03:26:12 there's that (tcllib) and there's another package out there, too. hold on... 03:26:54 here's what DanW said in an email i saved from the aolserver list: 03:26:56 IIRC, you can use Trf instead of the base64 package for encode/decode 03:26:56 of binary data in tcllib. In theory the performance should be much 03:26:56 better with Trf. 03:27:04 --end quote 03:27:31 Yep, that is the way I am currently leaning... 03:28:24 Webmail in OpenACS will always be tough, I just want/need the least difficult way to do it... 03:29:22 Of course I could always say 'Get G77, compile this, link it with OpenACS TCL and you're gold!' :) LOL 03:29:54 Ok. I submitted a bug report. I am not even using subsite, I just installed it by accident... argh! 03:30:21 I'll just leave it for now, I'll reload the datamodel sooner or later anyway :) 03:30:48 I reload mine about every 3 days.... 03:31:00 I can't wait to get to beta! 03:31:09 heh. 03:31:27 me neither, then hopefully I will have a mostly stable base to build on :) 03:32:09 thanks for mentioning me in the workflow expert post vinod! 03:32:25 haha - thought you'd like that :-) 03:32:30 I've got a couple users asking for websites OpenACS would be great for, I'm just waiting for a beta... 03:32:33 I bet the workflow will wait until after the demo :) 03:32:57 Heh, trying being the Uptime/AOLserver packager guy :P 03:33:15 i figure, you've already admitted to reading the docs, so you're way ahead of most everyone else 03:33:28 shagster. I don't know what soft of users you have. I am also thinking of a package where I can host several small unrelated domains in one OpenACS installation. 03:34:03 vinod: They really are the best docs. Lars was an anomaly at aD. 03:34:38 [to davb]: I have a qutie a few lawyers the want everything seperate! 03:35:03 oh, well that is a little different :) 03:35:20 anyone know what address book does? 03:35:48 Actually in Clevelnad they have a new federal court house that will have Internet connections 03:35:49 * davb installs it anyway. 03:36:02 in the courtrooms? neat. 03:36:16 davb: it's supposed to be an personal address book. like a web-based palm. havent tried it though 03:36:21 they lawyers want secure documentaion control 03:36:42 shagster: that would be really cool. I think the dotlrn stuff might apply... 03:36:45 maybe not :) 03:37:18 ETP and dotLRN is really almost exactly what some want 03:38:16 yeah. dotLRN will be very nice. at my day job, they want to do online traning and stuff, so I really might be able to sneak it in :) 03:38:52 argh, addressbook is broken, end of test. 03:39:13 I was thinking of something that could keep track of contacts who are members of the community I am building... 03:39:35 that isn;t part of the demo so it'll wait... 03:40:11 Come on, it would take you 10-15 mins to fix it :) workflow god :) 03:40:29 I told you, not until at least after march 1. 03:40:31 :) 03:40:56 Want to hear something really funny? 03:42:13 sure 03:42:48 One of my partners is getting divorces and his soon to be ex things the GPL'd software is worth 'millions' 03:43:11 So I was in court today with my lawyer: 03:43:28 Judge: 'so the source code is not owned by you?' 03:43:45 Me; ' Nope, I 've just added patches' 03:44:01 'Judge: who owns those?' 03:44:15 'Me: well me and the author' 03:44:28 'Judge: why do you do that?' 03:45:00 'Me: Well because it makes the software work the way I want and the author sent me -real- german beer' 03:45:15 'Judge: Damn good reasons!' 03:45:15 cool! 03:45:30 heh, should have waited for the punchline. 03:45:53 how was the beer? 03:46:17 It was great.... 03:46:30 wow, shagster in court fighting for the GPL (kinda) 03:47:05 Well, Like I guess most of us, my business is based on GPL's software 03:47:21 I can't let somebody 'claim' ownership of it... 03:47:46 yeah, I have to teach the guy I am working with about open source so he can explain it to the investors. 03:48:25 Oh, with my investors is was easy ' Will we make money', 'Yes', 'Perfect' :) 03:48:40 cool, I hope these are the same way. 03:48:58 they shouldn't care what software we use as long as we make money with it. 03:48:59 It can be tough though.... 03:49:36 I'm in Cleveland, creating a company based on ' 03:49:49 computer software services' can be tough 03:49:59 I am in Albany.... 03:50:15 but at least its not far from NYC and Boston. 03:50:35 Fairly blue collar town you'll run into the same problems I did I'm sure... 03:51:39 That is why I am also working on the *NIX/BSD etc... club 03:53:19 I actually found that *NIX/BSD didn't matter but explain how the cost/profit worked as an advantage did.. 03:53:50 Right. I figure I can say, we are saving $30,000 or so on ORacle liscensing, $60,000 on an DBA etc... 03:54:05 $100,000 or whatever for a CMS... 03:54:54 Right, business people understood that....It took me a while to realize that though 03:55:07 that is all they need to know :) 03:55:30 I still think this quoute from my lawywer was perfect: 03:56:02 'You have other people write and maintain the code and seel the service of using it?' 03:56:26 did he approve? 03:56:49 He love the idea 03:56:55 Umm ... loved 03:57:01 cool. 03:57:14 Well, great chatting with you, but I need some sleep :) 03:57:50 bye vinod 03:57:57 Heh..same here, but I have 2 new net connection coming in...time for router configs I guess :( 03:58:05 Later davb 03:58:13 bye 03:58:15 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 04:39:34 vinod_ (~vinod@207-172-97-204.s204.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 04:56:52 vinod_ has left #openacs 04:57:01 vinod has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:26:33 Hi. anyone around? 11:27:31 ocxy (ocxy@200.175.21.171) has joined #OpenACS 11:27:40 ocxy has left #OpenACS 15:02:06 bah 15:48:21 talli (~talli@ip64-75-146-79.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs 15:48:41 talli has left #openacs 16:18:52 jim has quit ("[x]chat") 16:19:27 jim (~jim@12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 16:49:02 davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-161-172.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 16:49:36 hi 16:51:16 did some testing on etp 16:52:02 ah cool. 16:52:16 what I found, was it's possible for two people to commit a change at the same time... one weird thing that happened, was I got his change one time, and he got mine 16:52:24 (a different time) 16:53:55 at one point, we had a changed title, he had his version and I had mine... and we submitted simultaneously... 16:54:38 at that point, we both got one of them... but if he commited the one that was mine, he got credit for the change\ 16:55:22 interesting. 16:55:23 one time, I reloaded before committing, and I got his version... 16:55:36 I commited that, and I got credit for his change 16:55:38 Ah, you would. because it was in the database by then. 16:56:16 you'll be happy to know... 16:56:22 Looks like you are interested in a more sophisticated workflow which checkout/checkin? 16:56:23 the server never crashed :) 16:56:55 that is excellent. 16:56:55 well, interested? more interested in making sure the right person is credited for the change... 16:57:28 It is the way the application is developed. 16:57:56 Anyone who has permission can change a page. So if I change it. you cna change it next. 16:58:14 yes, that's not a problem... 16:58:16 Are you talking about making a revision "live" when you say commit? 16:59:34 jim: also, I think my changes I am making will help you. items will be owned by the author. I think revisions could also be owned. so if you make a revision, it will be "owned" by you and if it is later committed it will still be owned by you. 17:00:00 that sounds like the solution 17:00:18 I think you are using it in a way noone though of :) 17:00:50 well, we were both interested in what happens on a simultaneous commit 17:01:42 or really, near-simultaneous submit followed by a near-simultaneous commit 17:01:55 right, it will always "work" 17:02:08 why are you interested in who committed it? the "credit" concept. 17:03:18 or is that irrelevant to what you are describing? :) 17:03:44 we wanted to be able to edit pages and have the workflow be similar to cvs, with many people working on the page 17:03:59 Ah, I see. 17:04:05 technically, there is no workflow now :) 17:04:10 it's quite important who said what, and who changed what 17:04:35 ETP might not do what you want it to then... 17:04:59 It saves the entire content, you can save the revisions, you if you add a sentence, it won't say who added that sentence. 17:05:07 it's more of a single-user thing? 17:05:39 well not really. 17:05:47 just not concerned with that stuff. 17:05:58 hmm, ok... 17:06:02 Are you planning on making the pages accessible to all users, or just admins? 17:06:32 sometimes pages will be restricted to a group, sometimes all live 17:06:41 public read 17:06:54 ok. 17:07:30 I am sure it can do what you want. Just not sure how much tweaking is needed :) 17:07:34 the permissions thing worked fine for that it seemed like 17:08:11 I could grant read on the root page to the public or to registered users 17:08:43 If each revisions was associated with a user, that would take care of the tracking who said what. 17:09:36 jim: you almost need to create a revisions as soon as they click edit,, that way each time someone clicks edit, they have their own revision. 17:10:28 hmm, if you did that tho, that would break the back button by leaking rows 17:11:44 hmmm.... 17:11:51 so let's see... if they say "edit title", 17:11:57 it pulls the title in 17:12:13 to an html text entry 17:12:23 which has a submit 17:12:52 if you go back and then forward, should they still have their same edit? 17:13:20 that is tricky 17:14:33 you almost need a temporary table to hold the stuff until they hit submit... 17:14:37 or, would that do the db query when they went forward? 17:15:12 jim: it probably should re run the query every time. 17:15:26 that's what it does now? 17:15:41 I would think so. 17:15:55 I can't test any of this right now :) 17:16:05 ok 17:16:32 How does CMS handle it? I think it has check-in/check-out so only one person can edit a page at a time. 17:16:57 yeah, I seem to recall a workflow... 17:17:45 I think ETP is more designed for a small group of trusted writers than the kind of thing you are thinking of... 17:18:31 jim: do you envision one person changing another persons words, or just adding to it? 17:19:41 yes, a person can change another's words... 17:20:49 tricky. 17:22:25 what I was thinking of doing, is if someone wanted to work on a section, we'd manually break it down into sections 17:22:36 which can be done now 17:23:04 ok, pretend that each writer can check out his own copy. What if I change one sentence and commit. then you change a different sentence and commit. 17:23:16 would your changes overwrite mine? 17:23:43 i mean they would now :) but how would you keep track of that. you almost actually need CVS :) 17:24:32 yeah... 17:25:19 it would be interesting to combine cvs with this 17:25:47 well adding webdav to it is on our todo list. 17:26:03 of course you still need CVS to implement the webdav versioning. 17:29:33 I wonder what a WIKI would do. 17:38:35 some people I showed this to, say it looks better than wiki 17:44:45