IRC log of openacs on 2002-01-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

01:42:25 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@r-41.154.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
01:47:49 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
01:48:03 [shagster]
[to tils]: yes you can compile the need modules and use 3.4.2 but a few things will be slow
01:58:52 [markd2]
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02:11:58 [davb]
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02:27:27 [tils]
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02:30:06 [tils]
[to shagster] thanks, just read your reply in the log
02:31:14 [tils]
you mean slow as a bit slower, or horribly slow?
02:36:28 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
02:36:49 [davb]
* davb has to get cracking on the top-secret project
02:39:18 [tils]
-:- davb [dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com] has joined #openacs
02:39:18 [tils]
* davb/#openacs has to get cracking on the top-secret project
02:39:18 [tils]
[03:40am][tils(+iw)] [#openacs(+n)]
02:39:19 [tils]
[Lag ??] [O/0 N/12 I/0 V/0 F/0] [U:a:S:b:h]
02:39:19 [tils]
[#openacs]
02:39:26 [tils]
aaargh
02:39:40 [tils]
* tils tears out his middle mouse button
02:41:08 [davb]
heh
02:43:15 [davb]
anyone know the secret update the database so locate works command?
02:43:28 [tils]
updatedb?
02:43:33 [davb]
aha, thanks!
02:43:48 [davb]
turbotax seems to have eaten my tax return from 2000
02:43:53 [tils]
actually it's updatedb and then wait 30min
02:44:09 [davb]
ah
02:45:02 [tils]
i think it should be started as root, otherwise you get a lot of permission denied msgs
02:45:26 [davb]
aha. another learning experience for me :)
02:45:29 [tils]
baad turbotax
02:45:40 [tils]
i wish i would get tax returns
02:48:22 [davb]
argharghargh
02:48:47 [rbm]
* rbm invokes his supernatural powers to understand davb's language
02:49:01 [davb]
:)
02:50:28 [davb]
argh
02:51:37 [davb]
xfce fails again. or progeny/gnome did it better.
02:51:56 [davb]
X doesn't run the .bash_profile so the environment is all screwed up in an xterm
02:52:04 [rbm]
* rbm hands davb windowmaker
02:52:48 [davb]
does it magically set the environment?
02:52:50 [davb]
:)
02:54:49 [rbm]
davb: Is this Debian?
02:55:23 [rbm]
My environment seems to be set just fine.
02:55:44 [rbm]
* rbm leaves
02:55:54 [davb]
rbm: yep.
02:55:56 [davb]
oops too late
02:58:30 [tils]
hmm, but shouldnt bash itself read .bash_profile, as soon as it is started, e.g. the xterm is invoked?
02:59:02 [davb]
nope, not according the the XFree86 docs
03:00:04 [tils]
maybe as a dirty workaround use .bashrc then?
03:00:36 [tils]
looking in my .bashrc file i see that there are a lot of environment settings
03:00:56 [davb]
yeah, I am sure there is a trick to it, I am just that lazy :)
03:01:27 [tils]
i remember reading somewhere that the environment stuff just sucks on all unix systems
03:01:37 [davb]
wow, I am almost getting the hang of this cvs local repository thing.
03:01:38 [davb]
heh
03:01:57 [davb]
I never had a problem until I setup my own window manager.
03:02:11 [tils]
so one should give up trying to make sense of it ...
03:02:14 [davb]
I think they probably copy the stuff into the window manager startup scripts.
03:02:52 [davb]
.xession .xinitrc etc...
03:02:54 [tils]
yeah - but why on earth should the windowmanager be responsible for a user's environment?
03:04:07 [davb]
ah I did stuff pgsql/bin in the path in .xsession :)
03:07:05 [tils]
so you have to restart X to make the database work? sounds like you are trying to emulate windows ;-)
03:07:43 [davb]
well only sortof. I can reload the files I think if I read the docs :)
03:09:50 [tils]
in a running bash you can say "source filename". sorry if that's obvious
03:10:43 [davb]
that is handy, thanks
03:10:55 [tils]
but doing that with .xsession might have unpredictable effects ;-)
03:11:45 [davb]
could be, but according to the docs I read that is the way to do it.
03:12:39 [tils]
if it only contains VARNAME=bla then it should be ok
03:15:08 [davb]
cool thanks.
03:17:36 [tils]
* tils has to go
03:22:11 [davb]
bye, thanks!
03:22:23 [davb]
thanks for helping, not for leaving :)
03:40:29 [tils]
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11:47:41 [dlk]
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11:57:22 [dlk-MeatingMan]
dlk-MeatingMan is now known as dlk-afk
13:57:15 [markd2]
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13:57:15 [chump]
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13:57:34 [chump]
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15:12:47 [shagster]
* shagster bangs head against wall
15:12:55 [shagster]
* shagster . o O ( that feels better )
15:22:53 [markd2]
the poor wall
15:23:06 [markd2]
hopefully it wasn't Larry Wall
15:23:08 [markd2]
he might object
15:23:17 [rbm]
moo
15:23:27 [markd2]
yo pops
15:23:52 [rbm]
how's it going markd2?
15:25:12 [markd2]
going good
15:40:14 [davb]
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15:43:25 [markd2]
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15:54:29 [davb]
* davb wonders if ETP should use its own table for attributes instead of the generic one.
15:54:53 [davb]
since I plan on using it for almost every application.
16:07:18 [ola]
ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs
16:11:06 [davb]
hi ola!
16:13:22 [ola]
hey davb!
16:13:49 [davb]
how is it going?
16:14:35 [davb]
I think I found a bug in acs_object__delete
16:16:08 [ola]
quite good. I finally managed to get software RAID 1 to work on my system.
16:16:40 [ola]
how bad is the bug?
16:17:10 [davb]
wow cool!
16:17:25 [davb]
the bug makes it impossible to use a custom content_type apparently
16:18:16 [davb]
now we know why all the aD packages used 'content_revision' incorrectly :)
16:19:00 [ola]
how weird. I'm going to install qmail and courier IMAP now.
16:19:18 [davb]
good luck. there are debian packages for those.
16:19:38 [davb]
well if you use a customer content_type you are not allowed to use the generic storage actually.
16:19:38 [ola]
did you install from those?
16:19:48 [davb]
ola: nope I could not get it to work :)
16:22:54 [davb]
Also I am using vpopmail which you need to compile something special in courier-imap for.
16:23:11 [ola]
hmm.. that's valuable info. guess I'll go with the source tarballs. the debian daemontols package is not the lates anyway.
16:23:22 [ola]
s/lates/latest
16:23:34 [davb]
yeah. qmail is no big deal, it isn't updated too often so no problem :)
16:24:06 [davb]
oh, I figured something out.
16:24:25 [ola]
davb: ok. cool. is pop better than imap?
16:24:34 [davb]
if you use a custom content_type you can have a wide table with one column for each attribute instead of a table with one row for each item/attribute pair
16:24:40 [davb]
no pop is icky
16:24:51 [ola]
heh. ok
16:25:05 [davb]
imap is much more poweful. Except I don't know if you can save the messages say on a latptop that is not connected all the time.
16:25:17 [davb]
pop is for people who do not have a persistent connection.
16:25:36 [davb]
I have both setup on my server, you can use pop or imap to the same mailboxes.
16:25:49 [ola]
I see. thanks!
16:26:36 [davb]
Hmmm. I wonder if I have say 10 or 15 etp applications with several uniqure attributes each if that would be a problem with a table with 100 columns or something...
16:27:37 [davb]
uhoh, etp has some stuff hard coded in to use generic storage...
16:29:10 [davb]
ah...
16:29:15 [davb]
* davb learns more
16:34:59 [davb]
I see, it looks like each ETP content application can have its own content_type
16:35:09 [davb]
which can have its own attribute table.
16:35:25 [davb]
I think this should be an option instead of using generic storage.
16:35:42 [davb]
most of my applications will use the extended attributes more than the built in ones.
16:40:04 [davb]
I wonder if I am trying to make things too complex and I will end up recreating a monster like CMS...
16:40:47 [davb]
also I wonder if there is really a bug in acs_object__delete still. It works for static_pages....
16:42:19 [ola]
which of the etp packages are you going to fork? :-)
16:42:34 [davb]
oh... static_pages content type refers back to static-pages table.
16:42:49 [davb]
ola: heh. no forking involved. just getting ahead of luke.
16:42:53 [ola]
dave: I wish I knew the answers to at least some of your problems;-)
16:43:07 [davb]
ola: I am just thinking aloud to get my brain working.
16:43:08 [ola]
cool.
16:43:29 [davb]
I need to have a site that works. so I will make it work, then make it pretty when I get the chance.
16:43:30 [ola]
the way infiniteinfo uses different "instances" of one and the same application for the purpose of enabling different templates is quite cool, I think.
16:43:45 [davb]
ola: ?
16:43:53 [davb]
I am not sure what you mean...
16:44:11 [davb]
to the demo
16:44:12 [davb]
!
16:45:45 [ola]
yes... I think they use copies of one self made application and point them to different templates...
16:46:03 [davb]
ah spiffy. I need to get in touch with him.
16:46:28 [davb]
I see that you can change templates.
16:47:18 [ola]
dunno how they implemented it, though. just guessing...
16:48:39 [davb]
also I see a new feature, upload logo and image for a section...
16:48:42 [ola]
shouldn't the user get to change what app to be shown?
16:48:54 [ola]
nifty.
16:49:14 [davb]
you can upload files to any section. I am not sure how they are tied to the templates though.
16:49:19 [jim]
jim (~jim@12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs
16:50:56 [davb]
aha, he has it built in section_image is the name of the section_image.
16:53:08 [jim]
hi...
16:53:12 [davb]
hi jim
16:53:25 [jim]
gonna install anothher openacs 4...
16:53:37 [jim]
I got last nite's nightly tarball
16:53:40 [davb]
postgresql or oracle?
16:53:45 [jim]
postgres
16:53:55 [davb]
I am planning on trying out the cvs from last night....
16:53:56 [jim]
trying it on a woody box
16:55:49 [jim]
(debian pre-3.0 box, that is)
16:55:58 [davb]
cool.
16:56:17 [jim]
havent' decided if I'm compiling everything or not
16:56:24 [ola]
hi jim
16:56:28 [jim]
hi ola
16:56:32 [jim]
err,
16:56:36 [jim]
ola, ola :)
16:56:43 [davb]
does ns_xml come with any debian package?
16:56:48 [ola]
ola jim!
16:57:22 [davb]
I recommened keeping the postgresql source around if you want to use openfts.
16:58:03 [davb]
anyone know what not equals is in pl/pgsql?
16:58:17 [ola]
jim: my name is pronounced more like: ooola
16:58:27 [jim]
oh :)
16:58:41 [davb]
how many ooos are in that :)
16:59:01 [ola]
enough. :-)
16:59:02 [davb]
aha !=
16:59:13 [jim]
we could add another la at the end :)
17:00:02 [jim]
but of course that would be silly... not a good idea to mess around with someone's name too much :)
17:00:09 [davb]
time to reload and test my data model changes :)
17:00:40 [jim]
anyway, I'm trying to find those install docs for oacs 4
17:01:37 [davb]
the new one?
17:02:07 [jim]
yeah, is there a whole doc tree for oacs4 yet?
17:02:28 [davb]
sure, its in the acs-core-docs package
17:02:40 [davb]
that is the core-docs. each package hsa a www/doc directory also.
17:03:42 [davb]
I don't think the new install guide is in there though...
17:03:59 [ola]
jim, try
17:04:10 [ola]
http://kurup.com/acs/openacs4/
17:04:11 [chump]
A: http://kurup.com/acs/openacs4/ from ola
17:04:18 [davb]
thanks ola.
17:05:28 [jim]
yes, thank you :)
17:06:13 [davb]
ola: also I want to hook etp up with workflow. it wasn'y my idea orginally, but i like it :)
17:07:01 [davb]
* davb vacuums
17:07:43 [davb]
oops
17:07:58 [ola]
davb: very cool. I think Don made some enhancements to workflow recently.
17:09:08 [davb]
weird, my home page is broken...
17:11:34 [ola]
(cough) it's been for some time. (on NN 4.77 Linux anyway) ;-)
17:11:55 [davb]
workflow is the example to follow for documentation
17:12:07 [davb]
ola: heh... I don't support obselete browsers :)
17:12:14 [davb]
I also though I had fixed it...
17:13:47 [davb]
its some sort of style sheet issue.
17:14:52 [ola]
davb: it's more than obsolete, IMO. a piece of crap is an understatement.
17:15:04 [ola]
it's a poor excuse for a browser...
17:15:20 [ola]
ok. I'll stop.
17:15:22 [davb]
I really like mozilla, except the mail is still flakey and slow
17:15:44 [davb]
ok, why is my new install trying to run an oracle query...
17:16:37 [rbm]
davb: have you used Opera?
17:17:03 [davb]
yeah. its ok, but I like mozilla better. I can't stand what it does when pop up windows appear.
17:17:32 [rbm]
What? Opera?
17:18:04 [davb]
yeah. If a small window opens, it chnages the size of all the windows, very annoying.
17:18:06 [ola]
hi rbm.
17:18:08 [rbm]
I like Mozilla, except that it takes 40 Mb of RAM and 15 seconds to render a page. If a page has any animated gifs, it takes 90% of your CPU.
17:18:15 [ola]
opera is way fast!
17:18:17 [rbm]
davb: You can change that behaviour.
17:18:36 [davb]
rbm: aha. cool. maybe I'll try it again.
17:18:51 [rbm]
Mozilla takes 200 Mb of disk space. Opera takes 5 or 6 with Qt _statically_ compiled.
17:18:59 [rbm]
hi ola
17:19:07 [davb]
Mozilla is fast enough though at least 0.9.7 before that it was practically unusable.
17:19:40 [ola]
opera doesn't support java (applets), does it?
17:19:58 [rbm]
I think the main reason mozilla is slow is because of the dynamic rendering thing. To enable theming crap they've compromised regular speed.
17:20:19 [davb]
ah, could be.
17:20:21 [rbm]
ola: I just pointed opera to my netscape plugins directory and everything works fine.
17:21:48 [rbm]
anyone here used ino_chart?
17:22:12 [davb]
not me.
17:22:40 [ola]
the tcl graph program? nope.
17:22:41 [rbm]
I'm trying to modify it a bit, but not very successfully apparently.
17:22:53 [rbm]
ola: It's actually a module for AOLserver
17:23:11 [ola]
oh. kewl.
17:23:21 [rbm]
kick butt! apt-listchanges is working for me now!
17:24:58 [ola]
woo hoo!
17:35:58 [davb]
hmmmm... all the existing ACS code assumes if you use a custom content_type then you MUST use a custom table for attributes.
17:36:14 [davb]
this is contradictary to the documentation of course... :)
17:38:27 [rbm]
davb: Submit a patch!
17:38:32 [rbm]
Z)
17:38:36 [rbm]
s/Z/:/
17:40:52 [davb]
:) I am working on it. it is pervasive throughout the toolkit
17:42:08 [davb]
I am just astounded how all the packages just used content_revision instead of fixing this.
17:46:20 [davb]
hmmm. should we just require a table for a custom content type?
17:46:32 [davb]
would an extra 10 or 15 tables hurt anything?
17:48:02 [davb]
oh wait, nm. I read the docs wrong...
17:48:20 [davb]
it says this: "design(# 'My Item',
17:48:23 [davb]
oops
17:48:58 [davb]
aha. the CR is requiring the specific table, not acs-objects.
17:49:03 [davb]
ack, my head hurts...
17:58:38 [tils]
tils (tils@port-212-202-128-208.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs
18:07:49 [davb]
oops.
18:08:16 [davb]
table_name is supposed to be optional in acs_object_types, but it is not...
18:10:10 [davb]
ok, this is just pointless. I do not have time to rewrite pratically every query, table, function, etc relating to object types.
18:10:29 [davb]
it just needs its own table and that is that :)
18:36:10 [dlk-afk]
dlk-afk is now known as dlk
18:58:34 [higgins]
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18:58:59 [davb]
hello higgins
18:58:59 [higgins]
i'm trying to connect to postgres from my machine on 192.168.0.6
18:59:04 [higgins]
hello davb.
18:59:11 [higgins]
but postgres won't let me.
18:59:15 [higgins]
i'm running it with -i
18:59:20 [davb]
on the same machine or a different one?
18:59:23 [higgins]
and pg_hba.conf has a line in it
18:59:27 [higgins]
on a different machine
18:59:38 [higgins]
postgres is on 192.168.0.4
18:59:43 [davb]
ok
18:59:51 [higgins]
i have this set up in pg_hba.conf:
19:00:16 [higgins]
host all 192.168.0.0 255.255.255.255 trust
19:00:45 [higgins]
ARGH my netmask is wrong.
19:00:52 [higgins]
un momento.
19:02:36 [higgins]
* higgins lames
19:02:40 [higgins]
that was the problem!
19:02:46 [davb]
cool.
19:02:53 [higgins]
thanks for your support.
19:02:56 [davb]
np
19:03:01 [higgins]
higgins has quit (Client Quit)
19:03:24 [davb]
higgins continues the record of the #openacs channel helping the asker answer his own question
19:04:07 [jim]
just being a clear channel helps with that :)
19:04:37 [davb]
ah.
19:22:40 [ola]
ok. I get this error when I compile ucspi-tcp:
19:22:40 [ola]
tcpserver.c:1: sys/types.h: No such file or directory
19:22:40 [ola]
tcpserver.c:2: sys/param.h: No such file or directory
19:22:40 [ola]
tcpserver.c:3: netdb.h: No such file or directory
19:22:40 [ola]
make: *** [tcpserver.o] Error 1
19:22:40 [ola]
hal:/usr/local/src/ucspi-tcp-0.88#
19:23:07 [ola]
I bet davb or rbm recognize it...
19:25:16 [davb]
ola: sorry, I never have had an error with any of djb's stuff :)
19:25:58 [rbm]
looks like you're in the wrong dir
19:26:05 [rbm]
s/^/ola: /
19:26:44 [ola]
what?
19:28:11 [rbm]
in tcpserver.h, what does the include line that includes sys/types.h look like?
19:28:19 [rbm]
I meant tcpserver.c
19:31:11 [ola]
the three first lines look different from the rest...
19:31:38 [rbm]
So you don't have the library that defines sys/types.h
19:31:59 [ola]
no, I guess not.
19:32:36 [ola]
I should come with the tarball, right?
19:32:38 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-207.s1223.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
19:32:40 [rbm]
Mine is on /usr/includes/sys/types.h
19:32:46 [davb]
yeah me too.
19:32:48 [ola]
s/I/it
19:32:49 [davb]
hi vinod
19:32:52 [rbm]
Let me find out which debian package has it
19:33:06 [vinod]
hey davb, rbm, ola!
19:33:10 [rbm]
hey vinos
19:33:17 [rbm]
s/vinos/vinod/
19:33:28 [ola]
hey vinod!
19:35:57 [rbm]
ola: You need libc6-dev
19:36:23 [ola]
aha! so the files between < and > are supposed to reside on the computer already?
19:36:31 [ola]
thanks rbm!
19:37:17 [rbm]
Between < > means that the C pre processor will look in the standard include locations. #include "foo.h" will look for foo.h in the current directory
19:38:22 [ola]
I see. well I learn something new every day.
19:42:41 [jim]
and if you -I dirname on the gcc command line, you can add to the standard include locations
19:43:57 [jim]
(which you might want to, for the X includes, or postgres includes, etc
19:51:44 [ola]
jim: you mean like this: make -I /path/to/includefile.h ?
19:52:12 [jim]
ola: more like this:
19:52:34 [jim]
CFLAGS="-I /path/to/includefile.h" make
19:52:57 [jim]
note I'm doing a shell assignment then running make
19:53:46 [ola]
ah. thanks. I'll try to remember all these tricks.
19:53:52 [jim]
reason, make has all these rules builtin, one of them says how to make a .o (object) file from a .c file
19:53:52 [ola]
:-)
19:54:31 [jim]
oh, don't remember that one; it's better to have a makefile and edit it
19:55:02 [ola]
right
19:55:45 [jim]
projectwise, if you're working on your own stuff, you'd have a directory for your project, and inside, a Makefile and some .c and .h files
19:56:28 [jim]
the Makefile knows how to bring all the things in the directory uptodate (building what needs to be built, etc)
19:58:07 [jim]
the rule that knows how to build a .o from a .c, uses a gcc command line... it automatically puts whatever is in CFLAGS variable in there
19:59:23 [jim]
it's expected to be command line switches, like -g for make debugging convenient, or -O for optimize the code
19:59:47 [jim]
anyway, those are fed to gcc by this make rule3
20:02:04 [jim]
but if you don't want to use make, if you want to just use gcc directly or in a script,
20:02:11 [jim]
say you had foo.c
20:02:15 [jim]
you could say
20:03:03 [jim]
gcc -I /path/to/includefile.h foo.c -o foo
20:03:28 [jim]
err, small thing to clean up there...