00:00:34 <talli> * talli similarly mourns mariah carey's demise as an EMI contractor.
00:01:09 <talli> she was bought out for 28 million dollars today
00:02:02 <denshi> I'd like to think that I could be bought out for 28 million, instead of simply fired.
00:02:21 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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00:03:27 <denshi> Did anyone see this paper?
00:03:28 <denshi> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=294828
00:03:29 <chump> A: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=294828 from denshi
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00:05:50 <denshi> mark, how's unemployment treating you?
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00:07:45 <markd2> unemployment is pretty good so far
00:07:49 <markd2> save for the lack of income part
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00:13:46 <ChanServ> [#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
00:18:05 <denshi> bye
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00:30:50 <davb> chump view
00:30:55 <davb> view
00:31:01 <davb> chump: view
00:31:01 <chump> A: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=294828
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02:13:23 <hazmat> once upon a time this was a noisy place.
02:24:45 <markd2> then those damn librarians moved in
02:40:27 <davb> everyone is too busy
02:41:40 <hazmat> yup
02:57:05 <davb> bye
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13:56:13 <davb> http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/silk/jscheme/index.html
13:56:14 <chump> B: http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/silk/jscheme/index.html from davb
13:56:41 <davb> B:|JScheme - A Java-based dialect of Scheme
13:56:41 <chump> titled item B
13:57:34 <davb> http://www.themindelectric.com/
13:57:34 <chump> C: http://www.themindelectric.com/ from davb
13:57:51 <davb> C:|Web Services Tools from The Mind Electric
13:57:51 <chump> titled item C
13:58:01 <davb> C: sounds pretty interesting, in Java
13:58:01 <chump> commented item C
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14:25:51 <ntropy_> anyone from thedesignexperience around here?
14:26:47 <ntropy_> davb: is this dave bauer?
14:27:47 <ntropy_> anyway, if you get this, your MX records on thedesignexperience.org are fscked.  i've been trying to send you an email regarding nssoap.
14:28:15 <ntropy_> this is Lee Teague
14:28:53 <ntropy_> So, I'll assume you're getting this message and sign off now.  I'll try to send that email again later.  That's probably why you haven't heard back from sourceforge, too.
14:28:54 <ntropy_> later
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14:36:46 <davb> argh :(
14:36:58 <davb> weird. I checked the records this morning too.
14:38:08 <davb> it has an illegal name...
14:38:32 <davb> * davb wonders what that means
14:42:48 <davb> I think I fixed it.
14:45:16 <davb> oops, actually I broke everything, then fixed it. 
14:50:17 <davb> time for a meeting, hopefully its fixed and works when I get back 
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14:58:19 <davb> aha. 
14:58:36 <davb> It is fixed, but unfortunately my ISP cached the screwed up data.
15:01:02 <davb> hmmm.
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15:10:55 <dlk> dlk has left #openacs
15:25:28 <davb> arhgargharghargh
15:27:04 <davb> anyone know anything about DNS?
15:27:20 <davb> I setup and A record for server.thedesignexperience.org that point to 24.58.160.41
15:27:44 <davb> then I setup an MX record for thedesignexperience.org that point to server.thedesignexperience.org
15:27:48 <davb> should this work?
15:29:44 <davb> phew
15:34:00 <markd2> yep
15:34:05 <markd2> do you have the syntax right?
15:34:18 <markd2> e.g.      MX 10  server.thedesignexperience.org
15:47:31 <davb> I am using www.ods.org, so I think they have it right :)
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15:47:43 <davb> thanks. It seems to be working now.
15:47:57 <markd2> yay
15:48:24 <davb> I had the MX pointed to the IP address which apparently does not work all the time. but does work some times.
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16:13:35 <shagster> davb still need help with the mx/dns setup ?
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16:19:49 <davb> shagster: thanks, I think I got it :)
16:19:59 <davb> I am getting mail again anyway.
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16:22:11 <shagster> okay :)
16:30:40 <davb> I think I actually fixed it! I am getting the AOLserver mailing list again.
16:33:24 <shagster> Yea!
16:34:14 <markd2> I'm trying to find the python 'pg' module for postgresql
16:34:26 <markd2> is that supposed to come with either python or pg, or is it a seperate thing?
16:34:43 <shagster> I think you need to look for PyPg
16:34:56 <shagster> I believe it is a seperate beast itself
16:35:03 <markd2> okie
16:35:46 <davb> that python thing is contaigious huh?
16:35:53 <shagster> but I don't really use phyton, so I'm not the best source
16:36:07 <markd2> reading through the 'learning' book, it looks pretty cool
16:36:13 <markd2> figured I'd learn enough to have it as a resume bullet point
16:36:43 <shagster> Bah! Nothing will ever replace the beauty and simplisity of FORTRAN! :)
16:36:49 <markd2> amen brotha shagster
16:37:16 <markd2> if you can't express it in 72 columns, it's not worth expressing
16:37:56 <shagster> correct, any why avoid line numbers? sometimes they make perfect sense :)
16:37:58 <the_docwolf> PR#6 and off we go into the nostalgia zone...
16:38:56 <shagster> nostaligia?  I program in FORTRAN 90% at work :)
16:39:09 <the_docwolf> hehe
16:39:35 <shagster> I really wouldn't want to do 3-d modelling with much else :P
16:40:36 <the_docwolf> just a wild stab, but has anyone done programming with quickbooks?
16:40:46 <the_docwolf> it's got an SDK these days...
16:40:53 <davb> interesting.
16:41:21 <the_docwolf> you can apparently pass data in & out of a quickbooks file with XML.
16:41:25 <shagster> Yea, I heard they were going to do that...
16:41:37 <shagster> Interesting...
16:41:41 <the_docwolf> i think intuit is trying to move the product up-market.  we are going to use it...
16:41:55 <the_docwolf> unless anyone can tip us off to potential disaster.
16:42:11 <the_docwolf> it's just not worth it tryinig to build a "custom" accounting system, when such a good one already exists.
16:42:19 <davb> it runs on MS Windows, other than that I see no problem.
16:42:30 <the_docwolf> right, the client does.
16:42:40 <davb> there is a server version?
16:42:55 <the_docwolf> no, but apparently a web server can write to the data file
16:43:13 <davb> oh I see.
16:43:13 <the_docwolf> and then those with access to the client can run their reports, tc.
16:43:18 <davb> that is cool.
16:43:32 <the_docwolf> the thing about quickbooks is that usually only 1-2 people should have access to the data.
16:43:58 <davb> right. I don't know how it or if it can handle concurrent access.
16:44:02 <the_docwolf> building an automated system to stuff data into the .qbk file, taken from say orders placed on an e-commerce site, is uber-useful.
16:44:21 <the_docwolf> you can "network" it.   you just name the users.
16:44:35 <davb> I wonder how it handles it, if it locks the file or what.
16:44:38 <the_docwolf> I don't know the particulars about passing the XML messages back and forth.
16:44:58 <the_docwolf> their SDK has pretty good docs.. i'll stick my nose in them tonight.
16:44:58 <davb> anyway, not a big deal the webserver is one user. it can handle that itself (if you program it :)
16:45:28 <the_docwolf> i think intuit is really trying to go to larger businesses.
16:45:33 <davb> cool. they have email invoices etc..
16:45:37 <the_docwolf> aD used quickbooks, up until the $40MM stag.
16:45:40 <the_docwolf> stage
16:46:10 <davb> right. I think if they want to go big business they need to build a front-end that will run on an RDBMS
16:47:08 <the_docwolf> yup.  for certain kinds of businesses, it makes sense to use QBs... others are trickier.
16:47:23 <the_docwolf> if only a few people need access to the accounting data, it's perfect.
16:47:43 <davb> right. it allows 5 users. that is more than enough for most businesses.
16:47:49 <the_docwolf> my hope is that we can automatically stuff invoices into it from our system.
16:48:34 <davb> that would be very nice.
16:48:49 <davb> and a spiffy addition to OpenACS ecommerce if it works.
16:49:28 <davb> ick. the email invoice feature is a add-on service. that sucks. it should just send email.
16:52:46 <markd2> add-on service for squickbooks, or for openacs ecommerce?
16:53:23 <davb> quickbooks.
16:53:48 <the_docwolf> heh
16:53:58 <the_docwolf> back when philip was at the height of his megalomania
16:54:18 <the_docwolf> he once said "we don't need an accounting system, we can write one ourselves."
16:54:21 <markd2> "we'll write our own quickbooks"
16:54:28 <the_docwolf> i still shudder when i think of that.
16:54:39 <the_docwolf> quickbooks is so nice, and easy to use once it's set up.
16:55:17 <the_docwolf> ... and most importantly, accountants understand QB, so they can actually make sense of your financials.
16:55:34 <davb> there is an accountant version, you can email the quickbooks file and they open it and send it back.
16:55:36 <shagster> yea, my account pretty much recommends it
16:55:39 <the_docwolf> so, i'm all for anything that helps one integrate with QB, even though it's not ope source.
16:56:13 <shagster> Actually I've been look at the quickbooks on the web (http://accounting.quickbooks.com)
16:59:05 <the_docwolf> quickbooks on the web scares me...
16:59:32 <the_docwolf> it makes me nervous for a host of reasons.
17:00:00 <the_docwolf> (and since my web site has hacked and destroyed yesterday, i'm a little bit sensitive to those issues.. :-( )
17:01:23 <shagster> Running my accounting on a Windows box makes me nervous also
17:01:50 <shagster> Unless I unplug the thing from the network :)
17:02:09 <the_docwolf> haha. true.
17:04:50 <shagster> So either way I have issues...
17:05:27 <shagster> My accountant is looking into it hard, talking to intuit,etc.  
17:16:23 <vinod> vinod (~vinod@209-122-234-217.s2281.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
17:17:01 <davb> howdy vinod!
17:18:25 <vinod> hey davb!
17:18:31 <markd2> hi vinod?
17:18:43 <vinod> hey markd2?
17:18:49 <markd2> how's it going)
17:18:57 <vinod> not bad) and you)
17:19:03 <markd2> pretty good@
17:19:15 <vinod> are we talkin in perl now?
17:19:16 <markd2> I've got a little time before heading to the dentist^
17:21:29 <vinod> ouch
17:21:33 <vinod> * vinod no like dentist
17:22:10 <davb> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2002/01/24/postgresql.html
17:22:11 <chump> D: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2002/01/24/postgresql.html from davb
17:22:28 <davb> D:|Postgresql and PHP - An invitation to drop MySQL
17:22:30 <chump> titled item D
17:23:07 <the_docwolf> i just sent a total crackpot letter to a ISP in brazil, and to AOL
17:23:23 <markd2> sweet
17:23:52 <the_docwolf> "what these people did was a crime", etc...
17:23:53 <markd2> I hope you put in some "I'M GONNA REPORT YOU TO THE INTERNET SYSOP!!"
17:24:01 <the_docwolf> HAHA
17:24:38 <the_docwolf> my real hope is that it was like a 13 year old kid, and AOL will tell his parents.
17:25:35 <markd2> that happens sometimes
17:25:44 <markd2> I was stalked by a 13 year old from florida
17:25:51 <the_docwolf> !
17:25:53 <markd2> she refused to believe that markd@aol.com (me) wasn't some kid in her school
17:25:59 <davb> http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2002/01/31/CVS.html
17:25:59 <chump> E: http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2002/01/31/CVS.html from davb
17:26:00 <the_docwolf> haha
17:26:02 <vinod> haha
17:26:08 <markd2> so everyday I got AIM of "why didn't you talk to me yesterday"
17:26:20 <davb> E:|Easing Web Application Development with CVS
17:26:20 <chump> titled item E
17:26:28 <markd2> after about a week of doing the "report this idiot" button, I got an apologetic email
17:27:30 <the_docwolf> so the folks at aol actually read their mail? i assumed my crackpot scawl went straight to /dev/null....
17:27:46 <markd2> well, this was a button on the IM window to the effect of "report this person"
17:28:05 <the_docwolf> i sent it to abuse@aol.com... any idea where that goes?
17:28:16 <markd2> probably the TOS team
17:28:19 <markd2> (terms of service)
17:28:32 <the_docwolf> i see.  I attached the C code, and all my logs
17:31:10 <the_docwolf> oops.. looks like enron execs are shooting themselves.
18:02:21 <hazmat> where
18:03:02 <hazmat> oh.. found it. 
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18:41:15 <davb> http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/css-discuss
18:41:15 <chump> F: http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/css-discuss from davb
18:41:29 <davb> F:|Signup for css-discuss -- Practical discussions of CSS and its use 
18:41:30 <chump> titled item F
18:41:56 <talli> talli (~user@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
18:42:46 <davb> hi talli
18:49:35 <vinod> davb: did you look through that php-postgresql article?
18:52:54 <davb> a little. mostly just says this is how to connect to postgres with php. no why postgresql is better than mysql in it, which is probably good.
18:53:32 <vinod> yeah, i thought their SQL examples were wierd though
18:53:35 <vinod> SELECT * FROM id,username,fname,lname where id > 100
18:53:41 <vinod> that's a cartesian join
18:54:00 <vinod> i think they meant select id, username, fname, lname from users where id > 100
18:54:12 <davb> probably.
18:54:22 <davb> that guy wrote one of the postgresql books!
18:54:43 <davb> I saw at least 6 different postgersql books at the bookstore last week.
18:54:47 <vinod> haha - must've outsourced this article to one of his interns
18:54:56 <vinod> wow - cool
18:54:58 <davb> did you read the book?
18:55:07 <davb> i didn't really like it.
18:55:07 <vinod> nope
18:55:19 <davb> it was available online while he was writing it.
18:56:23 <vinod>  http://stage.linuxports.com/projects/postgres/book1.htm
18:56:39 <vinod> i have it bookmarked, but i haven't looked at it yet
18:57:12 <vinod> like a hundred other things i have bookmarked :-)
18:57:16 <davb> heh
18:57:22 <davb> thats why I use chump.
18:57:30 <davb> I need to get it searchable soon.
18:57:45 <davb> I think this is the better book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672322609/qid=1011985044/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3_3/002-5055107-0647207
18:58:27 <davb> and this one: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735711216/ref=pd_bxgy_text_2/002-5055107-0647207
19:00:52 <vinod> i'll have to take a look at those. practical postgresql seems like a condensed version of the PG manual
19:07:17 <davb> I am waiting for the missing emails I haven't been getting.
19:07:39 <davb> Apparently I screwed up the DNS for my MX records, but now I believe it is fixed.
19:08:01 <vinod> ouch - i hate dns. do you want me to send you a test email?
19:08:27 <davb> sure. thanks.
19:08:45 <davb> dave@thedesignexperience.org
19:10:21 <davb> cool. got it.
19:10:29 <vinod> excellent
19:12:13 <davb> so vinod: _are_ you the workflow guy?
19:12:29 <vinod> haha - i don't think so
19:12:39 <vinod> i read that too and said, who me?
19:12:44 <davb> :)
19:12:48 <davb> I thought so.
19:13:13 <vinod> i ported ticket-tracker, so i *used* workflow, but i didn't get into the internals at all
19:13:26 <vinod> i think neophytos is the workflow guy, or danw
19:13:29 <davb> aha.
19:13:39 <davb> yeah neophytos worked on it most recently.
19:16:48 <davb> * davb reads the workflow docs
19:19:39 <talli> davb: you can also ask luke about workflow, if you have any questions
19:19:48 <talli> he's doign a project with it right now
19:19:54 <davb> talli: thanks! First I think I will actually read the docs.
19:20:49 <vinod> davb likes doing things the unconventional way
19:20:52 <davb> talli: BTW can you ask him if he ever sent me any emails that bounced? 
19:21:23 <davb> just looking it appears workflow is the best documented package in all of OpenACS
19:21:39 <talli> davb: yeah, i'll ask him
19:21:49 <talli> workflow is the best documented because lars built it
19:21:54 <davb> exactly.
19:22:09 <davb> it is a shining example of what the docs should be :)
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20:34:44 <davb> http://www.brainjar.com/css/positioning/
20:34:45 <chump> G: http://www.brainjar.com/css/positioning/ from davb
20:34:56 <davb> G:|CSS Positioning
20:34:56 <chump> titled item G
20:35:30 <davb> G: explains the CSS Box Model
20:35:30 <chump> commented item G
20:51:20 <davb> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html
20:51:20 <chump> H: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html from davb
20:51:31 <davb> H:|Rub a dub dub
20:51:31 <chump> titled item H
20:51:37 <davb> H: a story of refactoring
20:51:37 <chump> commented item H
21:07:24 <davb> bye!
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22:07:34 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@r-41.184.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
22:20:56 <vinod> vinod (~vinod@209-122-236-111.s1984.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
23:14:02 <tils> does anyone has a macro/config magic to quickly create a new .tcl/.adp pair in emacs, with some boilerplate stuff already filled in?
23:14:17 <tils> s/has/have/
23:15:56 <vinod> nope - sorry, tils. though it sounds like a great idea :-)
23:17:06 <vinod> i have a function in my .emacs file that fills out ad_page_contract automatically anytime it creates a file in a directory under /web, but it doesn't do anything for adp
23:18:54 <tils> could you send it to me or post it here?
23:19:32 <tils> sounds quite useful - why not duplicate it for adp? I'm gonna try that
23:20:08 <tils> s/duplicate/modify/
23:20:50 <vinod> sure, i'll email it to ya (it's about 30 lines long). i didn't write it - stole it from web/db bboards a while back
23:21:12 <vinod> what's your email?
23:21:26 <tils> tils@tils.net - thanks!
23:23:35 <vinod> np - on its way
23:25:31 <tils> * tils reads all the amazing stuff in vinod's .emacs
23:26:20 <vinod> haha - i wish i knew what half that stuff did
23:26:25 <tils> hey, is this your aim password here? ;-)
23:26:35 <vinod> oops - probably
23:27:15 <vinod> * vinod warns everyone that tils may now be masquerading as me on aim
23:27:19 <tils> i promise, gaim alway crashes on me, so i won't use it
23:27:35 <vinod> thanks :-)
23:27:44 <tils> tils is now known as vinod_
23:27:49 <vinod> lol
23:28:01 <vinod_> vinod_ is now known as til
23:28:17 <vinod> i just remembered that i sent my .emacs file to talli a while back too
23:28:24 <vinod> he would never use it for evil, would he?
23:42:58 <markd2> Talli? Eeeeeeevil?  never.
23:43:33 <vinod> phew - that's what i though. i was getting worried for a second though
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23:58:50 <til> sorry vinod, the only thing i can do with emacs lisp stuff is copy and paste it, so i won't be able to do a fancy adp mod
23:59:21 <til> btw, which mode do you use to write adp's - html-mode?