IRC log of openacs on 2002-01-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:34 [talli]
* talli similarly mourns mariah carey's demise as an EMI contractor.
00:01:09 [talli]
she was bought out for 28 million dollars today
00:02:02 [denshi]
I'd like to think that I could be bought out for 28 million, instead of simply fired.
00:02:21 [Psychephylax]
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00:02:21 [talli]
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00:03:27 [denshi]
Did anyone see this paper?
00:03:28 [denshi]
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=294828
00:03:29 [chump]
A: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=294828 from denshi
00:04:49 [talli]
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00:04:49 [Psychephylax]
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00:05:50 [denshi]
mark, how's unemployment treating you?
00:06:00 [Psychephylax]
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00:07:45 [markd2]
unemployment is pretty good so far
00:07:49 [markd2]
save for the lack of income part
00:10:45 [chump]
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00:13:46 [ChanServ]
[#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
00:18:05 [denshi]
bye
00:18:06 [denshi]
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00:29:06 [davb]
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00:30:50 [davb]
chump view
00:30:55 [davb]
view
00:31:01 [davb]
chump: view
00:31:01 [chump]
A: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=294828
01:02:22 [vinod]
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02:11:42 [talli]
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02:13:23 [hazmat]
once upon a time this was a noisy place.
02:24:45 [markd2]
then those damn librarians moved in
02:40:27 [davb]
everyone is too busy
02:41:40 [hazmat]
yup
02:57:05 [davb]
bye
02:57:07 [davb]
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03:37:04 [markd2]
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03:37:04 [chump]
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13:56:13 [davb]
http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/silk/jscheme/index.html
13:56:14 [chump]
B: http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/silk/jscheme/index.html from davb
13:56:41 [davb]
B:|JScheme - A Java-based dialect of Scheme
13:56:41 [chump]
titled item B
13:57:34 [davb]
http://www.themindelectric.com/
13:57:34 [chump]
C: http://www.themindelectric.com/ from davb
13:57:51 [davb]
C:|Web Services Tools from The Mind Electric
13:57:51 [chump]
titled item C
13:58:01 [davb]
C: sounds pretty interesting, in Java
13:58:01 [chump]
commented item C
13:58:54 [tils]
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14:25:36 [ntropy_]
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14:25:51 [ntropy_]
anyone from thedesignexperience around here?
14:26:47 [ntropy_]
davb: is this dave bauer?
14:27:47 [ntropy_]
anyway, if you get this, your MX records on thedesignexperience.org are fscked. i've been trying to send you an email regarding nssoap.
14:28:15 [ntropy_]
this is Lee Teague
14:28:53 [ntropy_]
So, I'll assume you're getting this message and sign off now. I'll try to send that email again later. That's probably why you haven't heard back from sourceforge, too.
14:28:54 [ntropy_]
later
14:28:57 [ntropy_]
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14:36:46 [davb]
argh :(
14:36:58 [davb]
weird. I checked the records this morning too.
14:38:08 [davb]
it has an illegal name...
14:38:32 [davb]
* davb wonders what that means
14:42:48 [davb]
I think I fixed it.
14:45:16 [davb]
oops, actually I broke everything, then fixed it.
14:50:17 [davb]
time for a meeting, hopefully its fixed and works when I get back
14:50:50 [markd2]
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14:58:19 [davb]
aha.
14:58:36 [davb]
It is fixed, but unfortunately my ISP cached the screwed up data.
15:01:02 [davb]
hmmm.
15:06:37 [dlk-dead]
dlk-dead is now known as dlk
15:10:55 [dlk]
dlk has left #openacs
15:25:28 [davb]
arhgargharghargh
15:27:04 [davb]
anyone know anything about DNS?
15:27:20 [davb]
I setup and A record for server.thedesignexperience.org that point to 24.58.160.41
15:27:44 [davb]
then I setup an MX record for thedesignexperience.org that point to server.thedesignexperience.org
15:27:48 [davb]
should this work?
15:29:44 [davb]
phew
15:34:00 [markd2]
yep
15:34:05 [markd2]
do you have the syntax right?
15:34:18 [markd2]
e.g. MX 10 server.thedesignexperience.org
15:47:31 [davb]
I am using www.ods.org, so I think they have it right :)
15:47:31 [shagster]
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15:47:43 [davb]
thanks. It seems to be working now.
15:47:57 [markd2]
yay
15:48:24 [davb]
I had the MX pointed to the IP address which apparently does not work all the time. but does work some times.
15:54:24 [dlk]
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16:13:05 [shagster]
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16:13:35 [shagster]
davb still need help with the mx/dns setup ?
16:17:02 [rzolfsauce]
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16:19:49 [davb]
shagster: thanks, I think I got it :)
16:19:59 [davb]
I am getting mail again anyway.
16:21:08 [rzolfsauce]
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16:22:11 [shagster]
okay :)
16:30:40 [davb]
I think I actually fixed it! I am getting the AOLserver mailing list again.
16:33:24 [shagster]
Yea!
16:34:14 [markd2]
I'm trying to find the python 'pg' module for postgresql
16:34:26 [markd2]
is that supposed to come with either python or pg, or is it a seperate thing?
16:34:43 [shagster]
I think you need to look for PyPg
16:34:56 [shagster]
I believe it is a seperate beast itself
16:35:03 [markd2]
okie
16:35:46 [davb]
that python thing is contaigious huh?
16:35:53 [shagster]
but I don't really use phyton, so I'm not the best source
16:36:07 [markd2]
reading through the 'learning' book, it looks pretty cool
16:36:13 [markd2]
figured I'd learn enough to have it as a resume bullet point
16:36:43 [shagster]
Bah! Nothing will ever replace the beauty and simplisity of FORTRAN! :)
16:36:49 [markd2]
amen brotha shagster
16:37:16 [markd2]
if you can't express it in 72 columns, it's not worth expressing
16:37:56 [shagster]
correct, any why avoid line numbers? sometimes they make perfect sense :)
16:37:58 [the_docwolf]
PR#6 and off we go into the nostalgia zone...
16:38:56 [shagster]
nostaligia? I program in FORTRAN 90% at work :)
16:39:09 [the_docwolf]
hehe
16:39:35 [shagster]
I really wouldn't want to do 3-d modelling with much else :P
16:40:36 [the_docwolf]
just a wild stab, but has anyone done programming with quickbooks?
16:40:46 [the_docwolf]
it's got an SDK these days...
16:40:53 [davb]
interesting.
16:41:21 [the_docwolf]
you can apparently pass data in & out of a quickbooks file with XML.
16:41:25 [shagster]
Yea, I heard they were going to do that...
16:41:37 [shagster]
Interesting...
16:41:41 [the_docwolf]
i think intuit is trying to move the product up-market. we are going to use it...
16:41:55 [the_docwolf]
unless anyone can tip us off to potential disaster.
16:42:11 [the_docwolf]
it's just not worth it tryinig to build a "custom" accounting system, when such a good one already exists.
16:42:19 [davb]
it runs on MS Windows, other than that I see no problem.
16:42:30 [the_docwolf]
right, the client does.
16:42:40 [davb]
there is a server version?
16:42:55 [the_docwolf]
no, but apparently a web server can write to the data file
16:43:13 [davb]
oh I see.
16:43:13 [the_docwolf]
and then those with access to the client can run their reports, tc.
16:43:18 [davb]
that is cool.
16:43:32 [the_docwolf]
the thing about quickbooks is that usually only 1-2 people should have access to the data.
16:43:58 [davb]
right. I don't know how it or if it can handle concurrent access.
16:44:02 [the_docwolf]
building an automated system to stuff data into the .qbk file, taken from say orders placed on an e-commerce site, is uber-useful.
16:44:21 [the_docwolf]
you can "network" it. you just name the users.
16:44:35 [davb]
I wonder how it handles it, if it locks the file or what.
16:44:38 [the_docwolf]
I don't know the particulars about passing the XML messages back and forth.
16:44:58 [the_docwolf]
their SDK has pretty good docs.. i'll stick my nose in them tonight.
16:44:58 [davb]
anyway, not a big deal the webserver is one user. it can handle that itself (if you program it :)
16:45:28 [the_docwolf]
i think intuit is really trying to go to larger businesses.
16:45:33 [davb]
cool. they have email invoices etc..
16:45:37 [the_docwolf]
aD used quickbooks, up until the $40MM stag.
16:45:40 [the_docwolf]
stage
16:46:10 [davb]
right. I think if they want to go big business they need to build a front-end that will run on an RDBMS
16:47:08 [the_docwolf]
yup. for certain kinds of businesses, it makes sense to use QBs... others are trickier.
16:47:23 [the_docwolf]
if only a few people need access to the accounting data, it's perfect.
16:47:43 [davb]
right. it allows 5 users. that is more than enough for most businesses.
16:47:49 [the_docwolf]
my hope is that we can automatically stuff invoices into it from our system.
16:48:34 [davb]
that would be very nice.
16:48:49 [davb]
and a spiffy addition to OpenACS ecommerce if it works.
16:49:28 [davb]
ick. the email invoice feature is a add-on service. that sucks. it should just send email.
16:52:46 [markd2]
add-on service for squickbooks, or for openacs ecommerce?
16:53:23 [davb]
quickbooks.
16:53:48 [the_docwolf]
heh
16:53:58 [the_docwolf]
back when philip was at the height of his megalomania
16:54:18 [the_docwolf]
he once said "we don't need an accounting system, we can write one ourselves."
16:54:21 [markd2]
"we'll write our own quickbooks"
16:54:28 [the_docwolf]
i still shudder when i think of that.
16:54:39 [the_docwolf]
quickbooks is so nice, and easy to use once it's set up.
16:55:17 [the_docwolf]
... and most importantly, accountants understand QB, so they can actually make sense of your financials.
16:55:34 [davb]
there is an accountant version, you can email the quickbooks file and they open it and send it back.
16:55:36 [shagster]
yea, my account pretty much recommends it
16:55:39 [the_docwolf]
so, i'm all for anything that helps one integrate with QB, even though it's not ope source.
16:56:13 [shagster]
Actually I've been look at the quickbooks on the web (http://accounting.quickbooks.com)
16:59:05 [the_docwolf]
quickbooks on the web scares me...
16:59:32 [the_docwolf]
it makes me nervous for a host of reasons.
17:00:00 [the_docwolf]
(and since my web site has hacked and destroyed yesterday, i'm a little bit sensitive to those issues.. :-( )
17:01:23 [shagster]
Running my accounting on a Windows box makes me nervous also
17:01:50 [shagster]
Unless I unplug the thing from the network :)
17:02:09 [the_docwolf]
haha. true.
17:04:50 [shagster]
So either way I have issues...
17:05:27 [shagster]
My accountant is looking into it hard, talking to intuit,etc.
17:16:23 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@209-122-234-217.s2281.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
17:17:01 [davb]
howdy vinod!
17:18:25 [vinod]
hey davb!
17:18:31 [markd2]
hi vinod?
17:18:43 [vinod]
hey markd2?
17:18:49 [markd2]
how's it going)
17:18:57 [vinod]
not bad) and you)
17:19:03 [markd2]
pretty good@
17:19:15 [vinod]
are we talkin in perl now?
17:19:16 [markd2]
I've got a little time before heading to the dentist^
17:21:29 [vinod]
ouch
17:21:33 [vinod]
* vinod no like dentist
17:22:10 [davb]
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2002/01/24/postgresql.html
17:22:11 [chump]
D: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2002/01/24/postgresql.html from davb
17:22:28 [davb]
D:|Postgresql and PHP - An invitation to drop MySQL
17:22:30 [chump]
titled item D
17:23:07 [the_docwolf]
i just sent a total crackpot letter to a ISP in brazil, and to AOL
17:23:23 [markd2]
sweet
17:23:52 [the_docwolf]
"what these people did was a crime", etc...
17:23:53 [markd2]
I hope you put in some "I'M GONNA REPORT YOU TO THE INTERNET SYSOP!!"
17:24:01 [the_docwolf]
HAHA
17:24:38 [the_docwolf]
my real hope is that it was like a 13 year old kid, and AOL will tell his parents.
17:25:35 [markd2]
that happens sometimes
17:25:44 [markd2]
I was stalked by a 13 year old from florida
17:25:51 [the_docwolf]
!
17:25:53 [markd2]
she refused to believe that markd@aol.com (me) wasn't some kid in her school
17:25:59 [davb]
http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2002/01/31/CVS.html
17:25:59 [chump]
E: http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2002/01/31/CVS.html from davb
17:26:00 [the_docwolf]
haha
17:26:02 [vinod]
haha
17:26:08 [markd2]
so everyday I got AIM of "why didn't you talk to me yesterday"
17:26:20 [davb]
E:|Easing Web Application Development with CVS
17:26:20 [chump]
titled item E
17:26:28 [markd2]
after about a week of doing the "report this idiot" button, I got an apologetic email
17:27:30 [the_docwolf]
so the folks at aol actually read their mail? i assumed my crackpot scawl went straight to /dev/null....
17:27:46 [markd2]
well, this was a button on the IM window to the effect of "report this person"
17:28:05 [the_docwolf]
i sent it to abuse@aol.com... any idea where that goes?
17:28:16 [markd2]
probably the TOS team
17:28:19 [markd2]
(terms of service)
17:28:32 [the_docwolf]
i see. I attached the C code, and all my logs
17:31:10 [the_docwolf]
oops.. looks like enron execs are shooting themselves.
18:02:21 [hazmat]
where
18:03:02 [hazmat]
oh.. found it.
18:12:04 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
18:41:15 [davb]
http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/css-discuss
18:41:15 [chump]
F: http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/css-discuss from davb
18:41:29 [davb]
F:|Signup for css-discuss -- Practical discussions of CSS and its use
18:41:30 [chump]
titled item F
18:41:56 [talli]
talli (~user@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
18:42:46 [davb]
hi talli
18:49:35 [vinod]
davb: did you look through that php-postgresql article?
18:52:54 [davb]
a little. mostly just says this is how to connect to postgres with php. no why postgresql is better than mysql in it, which is probably good.
18:53:32 [vinod]
yeah, i thought their SQL examples were wierd though
18:53:35 [vinod]
SELECT * FROM id,username,fname,lname where id > 100
18:53:41 [vinod]
that's a cartesian join
18:54:00 [vinod]
i think they meant select id, username, fname, lname from users where id > 100
18:54:12 [davb]
probably.
18:54:22 [davb]
that guy wrote one of the postgresql books!
18:54:43 [davb]
I saw at least 6 different postgersql books at the bookstore last week.
18:54:47 [vinod]
haha - must've outsourced this article to one of his interns
18:54:56 [vinod]
wow - cool
18:54:58 [davb]
did you read the book?
18:55:07 [davb]
i didn't really like it.
18:55:07 [vinod]
nope
18:55:19 [davb]
it was available online while he was writing it.
18:56:23 [vinod]
http://stage.linuxports.com/projects/postgres/book1.htm
18:56:39 [vinod]
i have it bookmarked, but i haven't looked at it yet
18:57:12 [vinod]
like a hundred other things i have bookmarked :-)
18:57:16 [davb]
heh
18:57:22 [davb]
thats why I use chump.
18:57:30 [davb]
I need to get it searchable soon.
18:57:45 [davb]
I think this is the better book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672322609/qid=1011985044/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3_3/002-5055107-0647207
18:58:27 [davb]
and this one: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735711216/ref=pd_bxgy_text_2/002-5055107-0647207
19:00:52 [vinod]
i'll have to take a look at those. practical postgresql seems like a condensed version of the PG manual
19:07:17 [davb]
I am waiting for the missing emails I haven't been getting.
19:07:39 [davb]
Apparently I screwed up the DNS for my MX records, but now I believe it is fixed.
19:08:01 [vinod]
ouch - i hate dns. do you want me to send you a test email?
19:08:27 [davb]
sure. thanks.
19:08:45 [davb]
dave@thedesignexperience.org
19:10:21 [davb]
cool. got it.
19:10:29 [vinod]
excellent
19:12:13 [davb]
so vinod: _are_ you the workflow guy?
19:12:29 [vinod]
haha - i don't think so
19:12:39 [vinod]
i read that too and said, who me?
19:12:44 [davb]
:)
19:12:48 [davb]
I thought so.
19:13:13 [vinod]
i ported ticket-tracker, so i *used* workflow, but i didn't get into the internals at all
19:13:26 [vinod]
i think neophytos is the workflow guy, or danw
19:13:29 [davb]
aha.
19:13:39 [davb]
yeah neophytos worked on it most recently.
19:16:48 [davb]
* davb reads the workflow docs
19:19:39 [talli]
davb: you can also ask luke about workflow, if you have any questions
19:19:48 [talli]
he's doign a project with it right now
19:19:54 [davb]
talli: thanks! First I think I will actually read the docs.
19:20:49 [vinod]
davb likes doing things the unconventional way
19:20:52 [davb]
talli: BTW can you ask him if he ever sent me any emails that bounced?
19:21:23 [davb]
just looking it appears workflow is the best documented package in all of OpenACS
19:21:39 [talli]
davb: yeah, i'll ask him
19:21:49 [talli]
workflow is the best documented because lars built it
19:21:54 [davb]
exactly.
19:22:09 [davb]
it is a shining example of what the docs should be :)
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20:34:44 [davb]
http://www.brainjar.com/css/positioning/
20:34:45 [chump]
G: http://www.brainjar.com/css/positioning/ from davb
20:34:56 [davb]
G:|CSS Positioning
20:34:56 [chump]
titled item G
20:35:30 [davb]
G: explains the CSS Box Model
20:35:30 [chump]
commented item G
20:51:20 [davb]
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html
20:51:20 [chump]
H: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000348.html from davb
20:51:31 [davb]
H:|Rub a dub dub
20:51:31 [chump]
titled item H
20:51:37 [davb]
H: a story of refactoring
20:51:37 [chump]
commented item H
21:07:24 [davb]
bye!
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23:14:02 [tils]
does anyone has a macro/config magic to quickly create a new .tcl/.adp pair in emacs, with some boilerplate stuff already filled in?
23:14:17 [tils]
s/has/have/
23:15:56 [vinod]
nope - sorry, tils. though it sounds like a great idea :-)
23:17:06 [vinod]
i have a function in my .emacs file that fills out ad_page_contract automatically anytime it creates a file in a directory under /web, but it doesn't do anything for adp
23:18:54 [tils]
could you send it to me or post it here?
23:19:32 [tils]
sounds quite useful - why not duplicate it for adp? I'm gonna try that
23:20:08 [tils]
s/duplicate/modify/
23:20:50 [vinod]
sure, i'll email it to ya (it's about 30 lines long). i didn't write it - stole it from web/db bboards a while back
23:21:12 [vinod]
what's your email?
23:21:26 [tils]
tils@tils.net - thanks!
23:23:35 [vinod]
np - on its way
23:25:31 [tils]
* tils reads all the amazing stuff in vinod's .emacs
23:26:20 [vinod]
haha - i wish i knew what half that stuff did
23:26:25 [tils]
hey, is this your aim password here? ;-)
23:26:35 [vinod]
oops - probably
23:27:15 [vinod]
* vinod warns everyone that tils may now be masquerading as me on aim
23:27:19 [tils]
i promise, gaim alway crashes on me, so i won't use it
23:27:35 [vinod]
thanks :-)
23:27:44 [tils]
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23:27:49 [vinod]
lol
23:28:01 [vinod_]
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23:28:17 [vinod]
i just remembered that i sent my .emacs file to talli a while back too
23:28:24 [vinod]
he would never use it for evil, would he?
23:42:58 [markd2]
Talli? Eeeeeeevil? never.
23:43:33 [vinod]
phew - that's what i though. i was getting worried for a second though
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23:58:50 [til]
sorry vinod, the only thing i can do with emacs lisp stuff is copy and paste it, so i won't be able to do a fancy adp mod
23:59:21 [til]
btw, which mode do you use to write adp's - html-mode?