00:01:48 M: surprisingly informative with only a couple of missing parts 00:01:49 commented item M 00:02:19 dlk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:06:29 markdfoo (~Snak@r-41.36.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 00:11:27 markd2 has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: markdfoo!~Snak@r-41.36.alltel.net))) 00:11:39 markdfoo is now known as markd2 00:15:22 vinod (~vinod@216-164-248-38.s2514.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 00:19:39 howdy vinod 00:20:59 hey davb! 00:20:59 vînöd iz iñ thé håüs 00:22:10 * vinod feels jealous of markd2's characters 00:23:40 * markd2 is quite the çharacter 00:26:05 actually, you're more of a VARCHAR2 00:26:12 auto-expanding 00:26:17 haha 00:26:22 * markd2 CLOBers vinod 00:26:35 no wait! I can't do that to the PERFORMer! 00:26:39 * vinod avoids the BLOB 00:27:51 I am running mutt in cygwin, but the color isn;t working, I am getting closer... 00:28:00 wow 00:28:09 are you running cygwin in wine in linux? 00:28:13 heh 00:28:33 no when I must boot into Windows. I haven't attempted to run photoshop under wine. 00:28:42 I need a speed boost first :) 00:29:12 * markd2 enters Linux-roolZ mode 00:29:17 does GIMP do what you need to do? 00:29:22 * markd2 leaves Linux-roolZ mode 00:29:33 what mode was markd2 in before (vinod asks suspiciously) 00:29:45 * markd2 is currently in raving-lunatic mode 00:29:54 and Objective-C / cocoa mode 00:29:58 which may be one and the same 00:30:02 haha 00:30:19 gimp is nice, but the text is not so spiffy. ALso I have about 50 layers in this thing and it runs great in photoshop. Also the tool relearning is not worth it. 00:30:44 heh. I have GIMP running in windows too :) 00:31:06 davb is the cross-platform king 00:31:08 * talli is aghast 00:31:20 not quite. I only have two. 00:31:34 vinod: you're a dr! and you have the disabled exercising for your pleasure in peep shows? 00:31:39 Maybe I will dig out the Vic-20 and Atari 800 00:32:13 * vinod is completely confused 00:32:25 gimp running in windows 00:32:35 haha 00:32:36 aigh. 00:32:41 that was davb, not me 00:32:59 i keep my gimps running in X windows 00:33:21 * talli quits stringing puns together and slinks back to his spreadsheets 00:34:19 markd2: have you built anything with cocoa yet? (or is it topsecret stuff) 00:38:20 just working through tutorials 00:38:35 I've got a list about a dozen long of stuff I want to work on 00:42:04 cool 01:13:27 talli has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:13:27 jim has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:13:27 chump has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:13:27 djg has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:13:27 beattiek has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:13:46 davb has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:13:46 Psychephylax has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:13:53 markd2 has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:13:53 vinod has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:13:53 shagster has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 01:29:19 davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-160-239.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 01:30:07 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 01:35:07 davb has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.5 [Mozilla rv:0.9.7/20011221]") 01:35:38 chump (~chump@alb-24-58-160-41.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 01:37:29 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 01:41:18 [Global Notice] Hi all. We've had a failure and are currently restoring servers. 01:48:07 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.36.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 01:50:11 vinod (~vinod@216-164-248-38.s2514.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 01:50:34 * denshi hands vinod a guinness 01:50:45 heh 01:50:50 already got one in my hand :-) 01:51:08 but of course, i'll take another 01:52:42 double-fisted drinking 01:52:47 makes it harder to type, though 01:53:13 dkasdf;jaf adfkjf;asdfi jsaf 01:53:15 just get one of those keyboards with the duplo-sized keys. 01:53:32 ok, i'll put one down 01:53:32 toddlers and drunkards; they know their audience. 01:55:29 denshi! i was looking for you... 02:03:03 [Global Notice] Hi all. Just to recap, we've had a catastrophic network failure we are still analyzing. Now would be a good time for you to consider helping the project, especially if you code in C, know who Stevens is and are comfortable with sockets coding. Our current server code is up on http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~aps100/dancer/dancer-ircd/1.0/releases/dancer-ircd-1.0.31.tar.gz . Thanks. 02:03:04 denshi: i liked your idea about writing a ns_parrot module rather than ns_perl 02:03:04 ns_parrot? 02:03:04 pinin' for the fjörds? 02:03:04 parrot is an effort to build a byte code compiler that works with both perl and python 02:03:04 i hope jim agrees. It'll be awhile before it's production grade, though. So it doesn't obviate ns_ruby and pywx. 02:03:04 ...and ruby. parrot is also the only intended backend for perl6. 02:03:46 talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 02:04:01 well, so much for that conversation. 02:04:34 you must've really pissed him off 02:04:39 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 02:04:49 rather parrot is a byte code executor 02:04:50 i have that effect on people. 02:04:59 :-) 02:05:14 heh 02:05:28 denshi: I was pondering your multi-user language idea 02:05:32 what? whad i miss? 02:05:54 it sounds like a great fit for many web apps, which seems to spend a lot of time managing and carrying around a particular user's state 02:06:05 loggy, are you fully functional? 02:07:16 I'm logging. I found 1 answer for 'are you fully functional' 02:07:17 0) 2002-01-23 02:06:05 loggy, are you fully functional? 02:07:38 02:03:46 talli has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 02:07:38 02:04:01 well, so much for that conversation. 02:07:38 02:04:34 you must've really pissed him off 02:07:52 i'm tellin ya, i could do loggy's job 02:09:42 you're overqualified 02:09:46 now maybe chump's job... 02:10:50 nah. chump does xslt which is one of those black-art things 02:11:52 so mark, have you dreamed up any syntax on my proposed language? 02:12:12 nope 02:12:26 just a class of problems I'd apply it to :-) 02:12:57 yup. should I email you what I sent Paul Graham on my feature concepts? 02:13:21 who's paul graham? 02:13:48 btw, mark, I found out that a 10th lvl fighter/mage can cap a Lich in 3 rounds. Baldur's Gate is disgustingly fun. 02:14:06 heh 02:14:10 www.paulgraham.com 02:14:15 I'm still on version 1 02:14:22 yeah, just found it 02:14:41 sure. why not 02:14:50 i'd probably have no useful comments 02:15:01 He wrote ANSI Common LISP, a couple of advanced LISP techniques books, and now wants to trash it and make a new LISP more appropriate to today. 02:15:09 but even markd2's useless comments are helpful 02:15:35 I admire someone who writes a few essential textbooks before deciding something sucks. I mean, *that's* research. 02:16:47 talli: his name is relevant here b/c the language idea we're tossing around (multi-user as an explicit language construct) I took from his language proposal. 02:17:01 It was like two lines in a 30 page document of good ideas. 02:17:12 so I'm trying to flesh it out and make him build it. 02:17:33 good lord I don't want to become a fully fledged language designer. 02:17:43 wow. killer 02:18:04 is his language proposal resulting in Arc? 02:18:19 * denshi says "aha! mark *does* have an address!" 02:19:58 yeah. I hide it at the bottom of all the pages on my website :-) 02:20:28 that's pretty sneaky. 02:20:55 docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-21-207-214.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 02:21:25 evening all. 02:22:05 howdy docwolf 02:22:32 talli: yes, that's his language prop. 02:22:50 i am the cleaner. 02:24:08 i like graham's third ques in his FAQ 02:24:28 3) A language for Good Prorgammers - Target User: opposit of Java 02:25:51 As do I. His detractors say that the majority of programmers are not 'Good', but he points out that 'Good' programmers write the majority of the software. 02:26:11 I generally agree with anyone who genially raises the bar. 02:27:59 denshi: MVCC? 02:28:04 Model-View-Controller-C? 02:28:10 or something else I'm unaware of 02:28:16 multi-version-concurrency control. 02:28:19 d'oh. 02:28:33 the locking system oracle and postgres use. 02:28:40 gotcha 02:29:07 ....the main reason a novice programmer can open a transaction and ask for things in random order, and never see a deadlock. 02:29:58 yeah 02:30:07 although the 6.916 crowd got pretty good at making oracle deadlock :-) 02:30:15 heh 02:36:15 rzolf (~rolf@adsl-21-207-214.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 02:37:24 hello freaks. 02:38:06 * denshi looks around for freaks. 02:39:48 thems fighting words, rzolf. let's settle this at the shooting range. 02:39:53 heh 02:39:55 erf. 02:40:30 i am convinced that trillian works well. 02:40:52 the interface is a little bit too 1337 for my tastes, but i'm sure i'll adjust. 02:41:00 what's trillian? 02:41:17 trillian is an IM client that works with AIM, yahoo, MSN, ICQ, and IRC. 02:41:25 it's got direct connects with 128bit encryption. 02:42:40 the interface is a little garish. kind of XP-esque. 02:43:36 so much software these days looks like it's designed by 13 year olds. or drop-outs from the local art academy. 02:44:01 the local art academy must be big into gray, I should think. 02:44:34 talli has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:34 vinod has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:44:49 [Global Notice] Hi all. If you are interested in playing with dancer, suggest you stop by #mistertoad about now....and the source code is on http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~aps100/dancer/dancer-ircd/1.0/releases/dancer-ircd-1.0.31.tar.gz , grab a copy and start looking. Thanks. 02:45:41 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #OpenACS 02:45:41 vinod (~vinod@216-164-248-38.s2514.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #OpenACS 02:46:24 docwolf are you ircing via trillian. 02:46:36 yes. I am K-RAD. 02:49:21 can anyone recommend a good, cheap projector? 02:49:27 for business and home use.. 02:54:17 /msg docslappy want 2 chat about WWF? 02:54:25 oops. 02:54:32 haha 03:06:22 night guys 03:06:25 denshi has left #openacs 03:08:14 vinod has quit ("changing universes") 03:23:30 talli has quit ("See ya!") 03:38:18 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 04:20:41 talli (talli@talli.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 04:49:36 talli has quit ("See ya!") 04:53:29 rzolf has quit ("Read error: 2.71828182846 (Excessive e)") 06:28:38 talli (talli@talli.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 07:21:06 dlk (dlk@garrison.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs 10:51:42 djg (~dirk@212.84.246.68) has joined #openacs 13:45:27 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 13:48:32 morning davb 13:50:03 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.92.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 14:08:30 tils (~tils@port-213-148-136-37.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs 14:26:21 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 14:28:57 markd2 (~markd2@r-41.92.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 14:30:22 hi talli 14:31:11 Psychephylax (proxy@ool-18bd7775.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs 14:33:11 docwolf has quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") 14:34:16 docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-21-207-214.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 14:41:05 http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/us-wizard/?article=wir 14:41:06 N: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/us-wizard/?article=wir from davb 14:41:14 N:|Crafting a Wizard 14:41:14 titled item N 14:41:30 N:Fifteen dos and don'ts for designing wizards that make complex tasks easier for your users from IBM Developerworks 14:41:30 commented item N 14:41:48 http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/usability/library/us-wizard2/ 14:41:48 O: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/usability/library/us-wizard2/ from davb 14:41:57 O:|More Web-based wizard tips and tricks 14:42:00 titled item O 14:42:23 * markd2 never liked the name 'wizard' 14:43:00 to me it has the implication "you're too dumb to do this. Here, we'll have someone a lot smarter than you do it" 14:43:20 I like the term 'assistant' a lot better 14:43:49 ok, call it an automated date entry assistance enhancing apparatus 14:43:58 s/date/data 14:44:00 :) 14:47:39 exactly 14:47:50 at least that doesn't make me feel stupid 14:47:53 * markd2 drools 14:49:25 dario (dlk@garrison.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs 14:50:11 hello dario 14:50:21 anyway the articles are very good. 14:50:36 assistant reminds me of that paperclip... 14:53:45 N: Check out the Comment box at the bottom of the article. It allows for a long comment or a rating and its built into the page. 14:53:45 commented item N 14:54:16 N: but it doesn't show the comments back the the visitor :( 14:54:16 commented item N 14:59:00 http://www.chem.ucla.edu/~bnh/lotr/lotrmain.html 14:59:00 P: http://www.chem.ucla.edu/~bnh/lotr/lotrmain.html from davb 14:59:09 P:|Lord of the Rings in Lego 14:59:09 titled item P 15:00:26 Lego of the Rings 15:01:57 his council of elrond is more like I imagined it than the movie :) 15:02:05 dlk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:09:34 ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs 15:10:14 hello 15:10:17 hi ola! 15:10:19 http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,36747,FF.html 15:10:19 Q: http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,36747,FF.html from davb 15:10:31 Q:|The Case Against Knowledge Management 15:10:31 titled item Q 15:11:05 hi, what's up? migrated your site yet? 15:11:08 nope. 15:11:25 ah! waiting for beta, right? 15:11:27 I am fooling around with ETP and trying to get it working the way I expect it to :) 15:11:30 that too. 15:12:05 Q: via [Camworld|http://www.camworld.com] "I think that gathering knowledge is the first step. Then you need filter it. And only then distribute it. Maybe the whole Knowledge Management field needs to coin some more specific phrases: knowlege filtering, knowledge aggregation, knowledge syndication, knowledge sharing, etc. 15:12:06 commented item Q 15:12:35 knowledge thingies 15:13:17 warum haste das gemacht? 15:17:56 I always expect something extraordinary from ETP :-) 15:18:41 myself, I've been playing with software RAID 1 on debian 2.4.17 over the past week(s)... 15:18:56 ola: also at one point I decided to redesign it, but I might put that off... 15:19:08 it's still somewhat of a mystery 15:19:14 ah. 15:20:08 ok. sure. keep the design as is but change to OACS4... 15:20:13 Q:"They wanted a cafe, not a library" - an informal mailing list outperforms a fancy KM system 15:20:13 commented item Q 15:20:28 ola: yeah, but I am half programmer and half graphic designer 15:21:18 Q: A very interesting article with some very good real questions to ask about a KM system 15:21:18 commented item Q 15:22:39 davb: you mean redesign your site or ETP? :-) 15:23:37 If I hear one more consultant say, "Knowledge is the only thing we 15:23:37 have to sell," I will take up narcolepsy in self-defense. 15:23:39 heh 15:25:44 ola: my site :) 15:25:53 ola: I am leaving ETP to Luke for now. 15:26:13 also I want to get NSSoap working and make a service-contract for it. 15:26:30 so packages can export services and call external services 15:26:49 ola: also I have the top secret web site to demo in 5 weeks. 15:27:05 cool stuff! ok. well, I guess oacs4 may be overkill in some cases. 15:27:22 what top secret web site? :-) 15:27:37 docwolf has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:29:27 ("what foney dog shit?" - (from Top Secret with Val Kilmer))... 15:30:39 ola: heh. I will tell you about it when its not so secret. 15:34:19 davb: ETP's not too much of a priority for us right now 15:34:24 cool; dotlrn.mit.edu has alot more broken links. hopefully soon the docs will be there. 15:34:30 talli: aha.' 15:34:40 i think jun yamog might be picking it up 15:34:42 well you gotta pay the bill. 15:34:51 ok. 15:36:50 so PG 7.2 is coming out in about a week - anyone know what's gotten better since 7.1? (and what's gotten worse, if any) 15:36:58 I only hope pg_dump works this time. 15:40:03 it doesn't? 15:43:41 not for me. at least not without human intervention and oacs4. 15:44:19 s/and oacs4/on oacs4 15:44:32 Ah. I hadn't tried it with 4 yet. I did dump from 7.0 to 7.1 with openacs 3, but I had to run postgresql.sql to get it to work. 15:45:21 talli: let me know if he does pick it up, I will probably want to work with him on it. I will be using it alot. 15:46:26 I have an idea that if I had one more package like ETP that was geared towards accepting visitor contributions with optional moderation that would be the only 2 packages most people would need. 15:47:12 right. and that's kind of clunky IMO (perhaps not pg_dump's fault, though) 15:47:16 and if that can be just another ETP application, only one package :) 15:47:24 ola: I am used to clunky :) 15:47:33 cool davb! I need such a package!! :-) 15:47:57 heh. I will need it for the top secret project although polishing it up for release won't be a #1 priority. 15:48:30 ok. but it will become open source...? 15:48:56 ola: sure. I have an idea on a generic pacakge that can be customized to do what I need it to do. 15:50:01 Hmm. sounds a lot like the old 3.x series...;-) 15:51:30 heh. I mean I have several applications that are similar so I will build a package that supports them all. its the way its used that will be secret. 15:53:02 don't tell me more, or you'll have to kill me, eh? 15:53:05 :-) 15:54:31 right. 15:54:41 I have been waiting to use that joke! 15:56:00 heh 15:59:23 I can't believe people worry about search engines other than google. 15:59:51 it is the #1 referrer on my site. I suspect it will replace DNS soon. 16:11:38 vinod (~vinod@216-164-248-38.s2514.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 16:11:47 http://techno-weenie.com/entry.php/view/4 16:11:48 R: http://techno-weenie.com/entry.php/view/4 from davb 16:11:51 hi vinod! 16:12:00 hey davb! 16:12:17 R:|RFC for a Common XMLRPC API for Weblogs [or other web sites] 16:12:18 titled item R 16:12:48 dario is now known as dlk 16:12:57 I wonder what happens when chump gets to the end of the alphabet 16:13:07 It didn't roll over at the end of the day... 16:13:20 chump has quit (Remote closed the connection) 16:13:25 chump (~chump@alb-24-58-160-41.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 16:17:22 after Z, it starts using markd2's characters 16:17:27 heh 16:17:57 ÅÇ: http://www.kurup.com from vinod 16:18:08 haha 16:27:55 reiserfs or not reiserfs, that's the question. 16:28:11 reiserfs needs something like 32 MBs of extra space in the /boot partition for its journal. hmm.. 16:34:32 R: This looks pretty well though out and extendable. I think it would make a good fit as an interface for OpenACS/Edit-this-page 16:34:33 commented item R 16:43:18 http://thcnet.net/error/index.php 16:43:18 S: http://thcnet.net/error/index.php from davb 16:43:29 S: the coolest 404 page ever! I mean it! 16:43:29 commented item S 16:43:57 S: from [Swhack Weblog|http://blogspace.com/swhack/weblog/2002/01/21/] 16:43:57 commented item S 16:45:45 S: and you thought you were going to get some work done today! 16:45:45 commented item S 16:49:14 cool! 16:49:27 * vinod scolds davb for not letting us get work done 16:49:42 (as we are usually *so* productive) 16:50:28 tils has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:53:22 http://www.despair.com/bittersweets.html 16:53:22 T: http://www.despair.com/bittersweets.html from markd2 16:53:37 T:| Valentine's Snacks for the Lonely Programmer 16:53:37 titled item T 17:05:25 only 6 more to go before we hit Z 17:09:50 i wonder why it didn't reset at the end of 1/22 17:13:44 k2pts (~nkd@adsl-168-174.cytanet.com.cy) has joined #openacs 17:14:16 hi k2pts 17:14:25 hey 17:17:45 http://www.research.att.com/~andreas/sci.html 17:17:45 U: http://www.research.att.com/~andreas/sci.html from davb 17:17:55 U: The Science of Scientific Writing 17:17:56 commented item U 17:47:35 shagster (~mkovach@web1.alal.com) has joined #openacs 17:52:33 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs 18:01:30 dlk has quit (Connection timed out) 18:08:51 talli has quit ("See ya!") 18:25:25 k2pts has left #openacs 18:40:31 rzolf (~rolf@adsl-21-207-214.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 18:45:57 docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-21-207-214.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 18:51:40 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 18:52:34 denshi has left #openacs 19:02:55 DavesCreature (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 19:03:09 .usage 19:03:13 darn 19:03:24 .help 19:03:24 usage: help 19:03:25 - provides specific usage help for command 19:03:26 - for a list of valid commands, use commands in a channel or private message 19:03:33 aha 19:04:13 DavesCreature? 19:04:22 .google openacs rulz 19:04:23 no results found. 19:04:27 heh 19:04:27 doh. 19:04:32 a new bot 19:04:40 .wn kibash 19:04:50 .help 19:04:50 usage: help 19:04:51 - provides specific usage help for command 19:04:52 - for a list of valid commands, use commands in a channel or private message 19:04:53 ohh.. missing some commands 19:04:53 .help commands 19:04:53 usage: commands 19:04:54 - lists valid commands available within DavesCreature or contained on the Zope IRC command Interface (ZIRCI) 19:05:07 .commands 19:05:07 valid commands: 19:05:08 - +mask, -mask, access, act, babel, billennium, c2f, change, commands, ctcp 19:05:09 - date, dict, die, dns, e, email, excuse, f2c, flight, foldoc 19:05:10 - fortune, google, help, imdb, intelliquote, isotime, jargon, join, login, masks 19:05:11 - modules, msg, news, news on, news source, nick, nickometer, part, pig latin, plexname 19:05:11 .weather lax 19:05:12 no weather stations found for lax 19:05:12 - poker, quit, quote, raw, register, rfc, rot13, search, seen, server 19:05:13 - servers, spell, status, symbol for, time, translate, unixtime, users, weather, webster 19:05:14 - when did, whois, wn, zipcode, zope commands 19:05:16 oops. I wonder what I did wrong :) 19:05:22 .python 19:05:22 usage: .python