00:08:35 vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-172.s1188.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 00:30:28 beattiek: the best thing that cooper says in that interview is that customers and end users are incapable of visualizing the software or end-product 00:36:00 beattiek has quit (SendQ exceeded) 00:36:11 jim has quit (SendQ exceeded) 00:36:52 beattiek (beattiek@bmhd25b1y14ha.bc.hsia.telus.net) has joined #openacs 00:39:03 dlk-afk has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:39:03 markd2 has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:39:03 talli has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:39:03 til has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:39:03 hazmat has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:39:03 vinod has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 00:39:16 beattiek has quit (SendQ exceeded) 00:44:03 vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-172.s1188.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #OpenACS 00:44:03 dlk-afk (dlk@as2-1-4.va.g.bonet.se) has joined #OpenACS 00:44:03 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.31.alltel.net) has joined #OpenACS 00:44:03 talli (~user@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #OpenACS 00:44:03 til (~tils@62.116.25.202) has joined #OpenACS 00:44:03 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #OpenACS 00:44:07 [#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 00:48:17 on the other hand, the rapid cycle of XP allows folks to 'binary search' their way to the system they think they want 00:52:15 markd2: that's true, but cooper's point about programmers not wanting to scrap their code if the client changes their mind all of a sudden is good 00:52:35 cooper pointed out that his point was not exclusive of XP, which i think is very good 00:52:46 the two can, and probably should, work together 00:52:49 yeah 00:53:21 I'm always leery of the "change the organization" tenants 00:53:41 since that usually involves the programmign team, the customers, and then their respective layers of management 00:57:56 beattiek (beattiek@bmhd25b1y14ha.bc.hsia.telus.net) has joined #openacs 01:00:22 yeah, you're right that it usually includes mangement, the customer, etc. 01:00:36 but his point is that really you only need one point person to deal with everyone 01:00:46 all those people can more or less be totally separate from one another 01:01:11 [GlobalNotice] Hey all, just letting you know we're working on this problem. Not sure exactly what the deal is, though it appears a massive clone attack transpired with #debian as its epicenter. We're doing our best to get the network's stability back. More updates as new information is available. 01:01:11 yeah 01:01:26 * vinod is counting how many times talli says 'point' 01:01:37 since i can't add anything valuable to the conversation 01:01:54 you do have a point there 01:02:49 i blame everything on the pointy-haired boss-types 01:03:05 * markd2 nods in violent agreement 01:04:28 * talli sticks vinod's pointy head with a pointy pencil to pointedly point out how he's missing the point 01:04:54 my pointer counter just exploded 01:05:04 hey - your pointer's dangling 01:05:17 ack - i knew this would come back to haunt me 01:05:21 * vinod is scared of pointers 01:05:37 you were aware of its pointential? 01:05:42 lol 01:15:31 [GlobalNotice] Okay, it looks like it's under control and most everything has been restored. We apologize for the violent interruption in service. Thank you for using the Open Projects Network. If any new information comes up, we'll keep everyone posted. Thank you. 01:58:50 talli has left #openacs 02:25:01 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 02:26:44 davb has left #openacs 02:27:23 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 02:27:27 argh 02:27:36 my window is off the top of the screen again. 02:28:03 aah 02:28:12 shift-leftclick on the border moves. 02:28:35 * davb looks at the topic and says "woah, what did I miss this time?" 02:31:26 heh - nothing more strange than usual :-) 02:31:53 I am going to try running Radio Userland under wine. 02:33:31 cool. i should try it under mol (mac-on-linux), but i've been to lazy to set it up 02:34:43 the new one is supposed to be alot better. it wouldn't work for me under windows, they just released 8.01 so hopefully its fixed. 02:35:04 I hacked the XMLRPC interface onto my weblog way back. 02:35:15 this time I will try to hook it into ETP or something. 02:35:38 also its only free for 30 days this time... 02:38:56 davb: what do you think of radio userland? 02:45:20 the old one was interesting, but needed alot of work. I am trying out 8.0 02:45:33 Reportedly it is much more polished and reliable. 02:45:50 I like it for the writing/outliner part and the fact that its scriptable. 02:46:56 anyone ever setup wine? I am using the winesetup utility... 02:47:15 I have a friend across the creek that makes his own wine 02:47:31 i whine alot too 02:47:44 I knew I could count on you guys to help :) 02:48:08 *did someone say wine?* 02:48:08 oh, that wine. 02:48:12 davb: which version are you using? codeweavers or an RPM? 02:48:27 apt-get install wine :) 02:48:32 i'll check 02:49:51 working... 02:50:12 argh... it can't find my browser... hmmm 02:51:52 wine version 0.0.20011226-1 02:56:23 cool its running 02:56:34 excellent 02:59:47 * markd2 wines and runs to the corner 03:00:44 I can get to the web interface, but not that actual application :( I think its supposed to live in the systray, but my wine systray is infinitely small... 03:06:11 also it did not run the user setup deal so I can sign up for my free space at radio.weblogs.com 03:08:42 wait... 03:08:55 aha, i'm in! 03:09:19 talli (~user@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 03:09:40 http://radio.weblogs.com/0101790/ 03:09:40 A: http://radio.weblogs.com/0101790/ from davb 03:09:48 A:|Davb's Radio Weblog 03:09:48 titled item A 03:10:12 http://radio.userland.com/discuss/msgReader$7581 03:10:12 B: http://radio.userland.com/discuss/msgReader$7581 from davb 03:10:20 B:|Radio Userland and Wine 03:10:20 titled item B 03:12:33 interesting 03:12:50 I installed on my wife's windows machine and I get the same error I got on my windows install. 03:12:55 Under Wine, no errors :) 03:15:24 windows senses you're trying to use a non-msft product :-) 03:18:26 heh 03:18:42 I think its because I had version 7 on there and its screwed up now :( 03:20:45 rzolf (~rolf@adsl-21-207-214.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 03:23:05 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 03:24:03 aha, I had some non-official files in the old install that it did not uninstall that were screwing it up. 03:26:22 talli has left #openacs 03:33:32 rzolf has quit ("Leaving") 03:33:34 hmmm. I posted to the weblog, but nothing happened... 03:39:43 well, i'll figure it out romorrow... 03:39:44 bye 03:39:47 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 03:57:31 vinod has quit ("changing universes") 04:03:32 talli (~user@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 04:15:59 talli has left #openacs 04:31:24 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05:05:24 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 05:27:12 davb:? 05:27:19 nope 05:35:36 hey hazmat 05:35:47 hi talli 05:35:49 oh damn, it's still early for you 05:35:55 it's late for me. still working though... 05:35:59 how are you doing? 05:36:55 bout check out for the nite, pretty relaxin, i took most of the day off. 05:37:05 which isn't saying much when you work at home ;) 05:37:22 :) 05:37:30 hows that presentation coming? 05:37:30 that's the prob with working from home... 05:37:34 the commute is too easy 05:37:44 and the bed is way too close 05:37:54 well i actually have an office thats a 100 feet from my house. (rented apartment). 05:37:58 the proposal is killing me. 05:38:06 but its about the same thing. 05:38:12 me thinks that this channel is really just about bitching about work. 05:38:15 not going so well. 05:38:32 no, going fine. i've just procrastinated on this proposal 05:39:55 loggy, off 05:45:10 chump, off 05:45:24 chump doesn't work the same way :) 05:51:02 talli has quit ("See ya!") 06:44:31 dlk-afk has quit ("- working harder making better doing faster makes us stronger...") 08:12:10 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 08:44:25 dlk (dlk@garrison.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs 09:48:10 til (~tils@62.116.25.202) has joined #openacs 10:00:26 djg (~dirk@pD958738D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openacs 11:06:21 dlk is now known as dead-man-walking 11:33:28 beattiek has quit (SendQ exceeded) 11:33:53 beattiek (beattiek@bmhd25b1y14ha.bc.hsia.telus.net) has joined #openacs 11:35:15 beattiek has quit (SendQ exceeded) 11:36:35 beattiek (beattiek@bmhd25b1y14ha.bc.hsia.telus.net) has joined #openacs 13:17:50 talli has left #openacs 13:38:24 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 13:38:36 hi 13:41:20 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 13:43:17 http://www.steptwo.com.au/papers/kmc_evaluate/index.html 13:43:20 C: http://www.steptwo.com.au/papers/kmc_evaluate/index.html from davb 13:43:28 C:|How to Evaluate a CMS 13:43:35 titled item C 13:44:44 hey davb 13:46:35 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.161.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 13:47:02 or markd2 13:47:11 at yer soivice 13:47:42 mornin' markd2 13:47:45 anyone know where I can get the nssha docs? and is it appropriate to generate a hash to compare a file to see if it's changed? 13:48:20 I think we did this before :) 13:48:29 for the former, I dunno 13:48:43 for the latter, probably, assuming it's not too expensive for what you're doing 13:50:38 1 file, once an hour :) 13:50:55 go fer it 13:51:03 thanks 13:51:04 might as well do md5 a couple of times just for fun :-) 14:01:11 rzolf (~rolf@adsl-21-207-214.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 14:29:53 :-D 14:31:44 so sleepy 14:31:45 so so sleepy 14:32:13 hi Spork 14:36:49 Hey it's my long lost friend Dave 14:37:02 * Spork thwaps© dave for good luck 14:37:22 brb memory install... 14:38:17 Awww 14:38:17 dave forgot to install his memory 14:38:17 is that why he doesn't remember Spork? :-D 14:38:24 har har har 14:41:03 http://www.heiferman.com/mcd 14:43:10 D: http://www.heiferman.com/mcd from rzolf 14:45:23 rzolf: you know that guy? 14:47:41 whatta freak. 14:50:11 seems like a decent guy. funny 14:50:26 and that guy at mcDonald's too 14:51:53 what on earth 14:52:05 what are these painful links rzolf is sending? 14:52:10 i dont know that guy, some other guy forwarded me the link. 14:52:35 taco hell around here is hiring in the $6's/hr 14:52:53 "interactive marketing frontiersman" 14:52:57 i dislike taco bell. 14:52:57 *shudder* 14:58:40 but Arby's.. now that's a sandwich. 14:59:16 mmmm.. beef-like-substance and artificial cheddery-flavored style sause. 14:59:23 I love those things 14:59:34 and it's not real sauce, but "sause" 15:00:24 5 'roast beef' sandwiches for $5.. how can you go wrong? 15:00:39 check out that dude's fake family. 15:03:03 that's almost as good as the 10 ramen for $1 at the Piggly-Wiggly in Conway 15:05:54 docwolf: do you guys pick up the arby's sandwiches on your way to or back from the gym? 15:06:37 before. the ladies are impressed by my good taste. 15:07:31 i 15:07:47 would like to change the topic of discussion to emerging p2p protocols. 15:08:05 what does that have to do with roast beef? 15:08:28 not sure but i could add it to my blog. 15:09:07 "bla bla RSS/XML/RPC/P2P bla bla now I can download arby's commercials before they air" 15:09:07 emerging p2p protocols really is just a fancy term for new kinds of cybersex, right? 15:09:26 humpUhumpMe 15:09:52 i don't know. if all these blog people are really this excited about XML tags the world is doomed. 15:09:59 or maybe just the internet is doomed. 15:10:08 heh 15:10:30 well, they've already fully explored the "current mood: hyper!" area of personal creativity 15:10:31 i looked at the docs for radio userland 15:10:45 and there's only so many times you can redesign the html for your site 15:10:50 i was amazed that it's a feature that you can syndicate your blog to other blogs 15:10:51 so bizarre little protocols are the next logical step 15:11:00 yeah. 15:11:34 all that blog stuff sort of hinges on the idea that there isn't already enough crap being spewed about on the int-er-net 15:11:46 what kind of incestuous world do we live in that people want to publish the journal entries of of other people in their own journal? 15:11:58 isn't weird enough that people publish their diaries online? 15:12:17 uh, rzolf, the correct new term is InterWeb 15:12:57 er. 15:13:05 interweb *BAD* 15:13:13 the interweb superhighway 15:13:58 when my dad was in grad school, he said he tried to buy his landlord's bicycle off of him. 15:14:19 he was denied because his landlord said the bike was being saved for when they built highways for them 15:14:57 similarly, i am saving my webcam blog for when the InterWeb goes 3d 15:15:25 how's that for an image, huh guys? 15:15:36 talli webcam in 3d 15:15:40 * markd2 loses his arby's 15:16:29 I guess so long as it's not Hot XXX Physician-on-Physician Action!!!! it's ok 15:36:03 talli has quit ("See ya!") 15:38:22 dead-man-walking is now known as dlk 15:45:24 djg has left #openacs 16:03:54 dlk has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 16:04:45 vinod (~vinod@207-172-102-57.s311.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 16:15:51 my bike has arrived. 16:17:35 wü hü!! 16:21:02 * rzolf contemplates replacing uber-expensive brooks saddle that was stolen in berzerkley. 16:21:41 whoa. your cool saddle was stolen? 16:21:48 :'-( 16:21:58 yes, by a fellow bike nut. 16:22:13 since, he didn't just steal the saddle. he actually switched out his saddle for mine. 16:22:32 wow, how courteous 16:22:37 at least he didn't just leave you a post to ride on 16:22:38 so I started riding away, and then "whoa...this is some crummy schwinn saddle" 16:22:59 yeah. 16:23:12 there is some new dutch leather thing that sheldon brown(e) is selling. 16:23:27 that i might want to try. but the brooks is nice. 16:23:45 i might build out my fleet of bikes this year. 16:23:53 ...and go bankrupt in the process. 16:24:30 what bike did you get? 16:24:52 i bought a gunnar fixed gear cyclocross bike 2 years ago. 16:24:58 but my dad just shipped it to me. 16:25:19 cool 16:26:26 i want to turn it into a "winter" bike and get a real track bike. 16:26:58 but i also want to get a bmx bike and an amsterdam bike, and a many-geared touring bike. 16:27:14 tandem! 16:27:33 i have a tandem already. 16:27:38 actually i have 2 tandems. ;-) 16:27:41 whoa! 16:28:04 one is a 1950s era schwinn 3-speed internal 16:28:20 the other is some weird white-elephant brand MTB-style tandem that cost like $400. 16:29:25 * vinod thinks rzolf could sell all his bikes and retire to a nice island somewhere 16:29:36 most of them are worth $0 16:29:52 i wouldn't mind retiring to new zealand, after seeing LoTR 16:30:02 too much celtic music there 16:30:13 just finished reading fellowship of the rings, so i can go see the movie now 16:30:21 heh. i'll have to admit i'm not big on the celtic culture. 16:30:55 it was trendy amongst lefty minnesotans when i was in college (minnesota is a weird place) 16:31:06 haha 16:31:13 and the whole time i was just thinking "wow, a culture more boring than scandinavian culture" 16:32:25 i think it is because both scandinavians and the irish have a tendency towards alcoholism, but the irish have good beer, and the scandinavians have awful beer. 16:32:56 so the MN scandis got jealous and co-opted the celtic stuff. 16:33:23 the pogues are a good band though. 16:33:34 * rzolf recently obtained coffee, entered into "random" mode. 16:34:15 * vinod remembers his coffee is still sitting in the coffeemaker! 16:35:02 * rzolf is on a bike nerding binge. 16:35:16 bmx bike i want: http://www.brooklynmachineworks.com/bikes/images/crsr_orange.jpg 16:36:26 amsterdam style bike: 16:36:29 http://shop.kronancykel.se/artimages/herr_orange_350.gif 16:36:30 E: http://shop.kronancykel.se/artimages/herr_orange_350.gif from rzolf 16:37:17 ooh - that one looks cool 16:37:32 most of the bikes i saw in amsterdam were old piles of cra 16:37:33 p 16:37:47 but, there wre a few new ones of the "kronan" variety. 16:38:05 they look really cool when decked out with the front frame 16:38:13 and they are about $600 16:39:37 ultrasweet touring bike: 16:39:40 http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/general/atlarrive/atlantisside10.jpg 16:39:40 F: http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/general/atlarrive/atlantisside10.jpg from rzolf 16:39:51 now just need to find some uber bike snob track bike. 16:39:53 ;-) 16:40:00 biking on the roads around here is suicide :-( 16:40:24 i'm guessing ehre too. 16:40:31 so i might only go at like 4 in the morning 16:40:36 (which is what i did in cambridge) 16:40:52 all the big steel trucks are out at 4 16:40:58 ugh. 16:41:13 the old drivers here are sort of terrifying. 16:41:20 because they are all driving big huge boats 16:41:24 and 16:41:27 they can't see 16:41:37 i miss that about madison. there were bike lanes everywhere 16:41:40 because florida apparently doesn't require an eye check when renewing license. 16:42:13 * rzolf actually liked biking in brooklyn. 16:42:15 * rzolf shrugs. 16:43:34 i can no longer stand this crummy irc client. 16:43:35 rzolf has quit ("Leaving") 16:44:04 rzolf (~rolf@adsl-21-207-214.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 16:44:21 which irc client was it? 16:44:32 is this your bike? http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/fixed.html#gunnar 16:45:55 yes 16:46:11 i have straight-up ircII installed on OS X but it sucks. 16:46:28 i guess it is ok if you have the right scripts installed, but i dont know which ones are good. 16:46:47 does BitchX work? 16:46:55 BitchX works good "out of the box" but i can'tget it to compile on OS X 16:46:55 snak may be a little too girly-man for you 16:47:10 remember what kind of errors you were getting? 16:47:15 i'm using BitchX now from the freeBSD machien. 16:47:20 machien! 16:47:30 or point me to the source and I'll spend 15 minutes looking at it 16:47:53 www.bitchx.org i got the one with the latest version number. 16:48:03 qool 16:48:05 also you need to get ncurses 5.2 16:48:10 o 16:48:15 (but it doesnt work even if you have ncurses 5.2) 16:48:46 confilicting types for 'tparm' 16:48:54 previous declaration of 'tparm' 16:49:03 -75p3 or 1.018 ? 16:49:20 1.018 16:49:26 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 16:49:43 other people have claimed success. 16:50:35 what is a "hebrew process routine?" 16:51:27 vinod has quit ("changing universes") 16:54:15 what's thec ontext? 16:54:47 in the bitchX source there is a file called "hebrew.c" and the comments just say something like "hebrew process routine ... ported from windoze pardon the mess bla bla bla" 16:55:07 bizarre 16:55:17 I'm still downloading 17:01:05 aim on OS X is flaky. 17:01:20 I don't like it 17:01:25 I can't shove the window under the menubar and hide the advert 17:01:45 i might (shudder) get Kriston's mini tcl command line client. 17:02:03 provided the blocking feature works. 17:02:05 ;-) 17:02:21 my buddy list contains 3 people. 17:02:31 any more than that, I can't get anything done. 17:05:50 productivity is overrated 17:06:13 and seeing as how the boss is goofs off around here too, you should be all set for easy street 17:08:31 or i'll be set for mopping the gym and delivering papa johns. 17:08:47 if i don't finish this system soon. 17:10:07 papa john papa john you rock me you rock me papa john papa john 17:10:28 hehe 17:10:33 thin crust ,please. 17:11:26 til (~tils@194-208-073-068.TELE.NET) has joined #openacs 17:17:24 i will convince pair.com to offer mass postgresql databases. 17:20:12 or convince aupair.com 17:21:54 heh 17:21:58 pair rules 17:22:45 maybe if dot.wolf implodes i can work at pair and live in a tent on the dot.bork estate. 17:23:28 just make sure Backhoe Bill doesn't confuse you for a "chicken" 17:28:12 dot.wolf will never die 17:28:16 heh 17:28:35 i don't care if I have to sell viagra from the back of a clapped-out impala 17:28:47 it will just transform into turkeyduckfortheholidays.com 17:28:53 hehe 17:28:56 we can sell pre-prepared turkey ducks for thanksgiving. 17:28:58 what _is_ that thing? 17:29:31 i don't know. are you sure FAU doesn't have some recluse genetic engineer working anonymously in some lab? 17:29:47 it seems the ideal area to hatch some diabolical scheme. 17:30:27 that being said, can turkeys mate with ducks? maybe its just some bastard offspring of bird love that was never meant to be. 17:30:56 take a picture of it 17:31:00 i did. 17:31:06 ooh - online anywhere? 17:31:15 no i better charge up iphotO 17:31:29 but i gotta finish up this email to Pair. 17:40:51 * markd2 gives up on building BitchX 17:40:58 ncurses not compiling well or working 17:41:05 maybe beg a binary from #leet-wares 17:45:07 womp-waaaa 17:45:21 did ncurses compile? 17:45:26 sort of 17:45:32 the tests wouldn't run 17:45:42 couldn't figure out how term types of vt100 or ansi or dumb, so I gave up 17:45:56 hm 17:46:00 l4m3 17:46:10 there is some weird flag you need, but i'm not sure if it changes anything. 17:58:37 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 17:58:59 http://www.tranquileye.com/cyber/index.html 17:59:00 G: http://www.tranquileye.com/cyber/index.html from talli 17:59:09 cyber history collection 17:59:09 and timeline @ tranquileye 18:03:57 talli: personal weblogs linking to each other is a waste of time...but there are other uses for that type of software. Userland is pushing it for knowledge managament across an organization also. 18:04:20 which is a little more interesting... 18:04:47 davb: yeah, i figured 18:04:57 hello 18:04:57 that does sound very nice, actually. you're right 18:05:03 wow. very nice, in fact 18:05:07 heh 18:05:07