00:27:00 davb (~chatzilla@alb-24-58-160-135.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:34:53 talli has quit ("later later later") 00:39:07 yon has left #openacs 00:49:00 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 01:19:41 rzolf is now known as hammerpants 01:21:13 yikes 01:27:20 yikes what? 01:27:28 hammerpants? 01:27:46 you may have spent a little too much time near OakTown, hammerpants. 01:28:10 can't touch the hammer pants. proper. 01:28:30 word 01:28:54 hammerpants is now known as rzolf 01:30:41 did you guys see the new packagign system called OpenPKG? 01:31:39 no. 01:32:35 (http://www.openpkg.org 01:32:52 based on RPMs, it supposedly works on BSD, Solaris and linux 01:33:20 vinod has quit ("changing universes") 01:33:31 interesting. 01:38:32 that reminds me i need to figure out how to write packages for OSX 01:39:34 using fink? 01:40:28 i have no idea how to do it. 01:44:56 check out fink. it's based on the debian system, but built for OSX 01:57:02 rzolf has quit ("Leaving") 02:52:00 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.83.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 02:54:03 * davb switches from his secret-identity "web-nerd" into GraphicsMan! 03:10:50 vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-154.s1170.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 03:16:45 hi vinod 03:17:33 hey davb 03:17:46 that's not davb 03:17:46 that's GraphicsMan! 03:17:56 davb is now known as GraphicsMan 03:18:10 oops, thanks markd2! 03:18:56 GraphicsMan! 03:19:04 how could i have confused them? 03:19:10 heh 03:19:34 actully I can't take my glasses off when I transform. I need new contacts :) 03:19:58 haha 03:20:35 "have you noticed GraphicsMan's graphics have gotten fuzzy lately?" 03:21:02 I should work on a new OpenWhat? logo. 03:43:47 the new "OpenThis!!" logo 03:46:38 i envision a hand with the middle finger extended 03:46:39 heh 03:46:44 me too! 03:47:07 that would keep those damn newbies away ;-) 03:47:14 what about an OpenFly logo? 03:47:30 * vinod checks his fly 03:47:39 monkeys always look 03:47:51 eek! eek! 03:48:40 * vinod always gets burned by that one 03:48:51 hey, guess what? 03:48:58 what? 03:49:02 you guessed it! 03:49:10 (as the humor level sinks lower and lower) 03:49:14 vinod, something's on your shirt 03:49:20 * vinod looks down 03:49:37 * talli smacks vinod upside the head 03:49:41 you'd think as a younger brother, i would have learned my lesson by now... 03:50:17 i still try to get people with the, "you know, if your hand is bigger than your face, you've got cancer" 03:50:25 lol 03:50:27 that's a classic 03:52:10 markd2: alt.religion.kibology has changed my life 03:52:16 sweet 03:52:40 kibo certainly is a unique one 03:53:32 * vinod is about to do a fresh install of openacs to see if his docs are lies or not 03:54:39 lies! lies! its all lies! 03:54:45 LOL 03:55:03 i love it 03:55:13 is there a mailing list for it? 03:55:14 bboards? 03:55:19 LOL 03:55:45 GraphicsMan: you are a graphics genius 03:55:50 that rules 03:56:24 http://www.sixsixfive.com/297.html 03:56:24 A: http://www.sixsixfive.com/297.html from markd2 03:56:32 A:| The Pennsylvania driving simulator 03:56:32 titled item A 03:59:11 imagine what I could do if I applied a couple of filters :) 04:01:29 i don't think censorship would help the cause at all 04:05:24 s/filters/effects 04:05:27 brb 04:05:52 ohhh... effects. 04:06:28 these graphics designers have their own special lingo ;-) 04:07:40 don't i know it. if he had just said, "it needs some whizbang wingwam", i don;t think i would have been so confuse 04:07:42 confused 04:07:52 haha 04:10:27 it's funny how MSN sponsors espn.com, but that site ALWAYS makes IE6 crash 04:10:52 vinod: where are you watching the game this weekend? 04:11:21 probably at home, maybe at a bar 04:12:01 where in boston do you live? 04:12:18 in dorchester - near south boston 04:13:23 i must say, i truly hate the packers. 04:13:31 haha 04:13:41 the only thing that does not make me totally pissed off about last week is that the niners were so bad the years before 04:13:41 don't hate us cuz we're beautiful 04:13:50 the fact they made it that far was amazing in itself 04:13:59 we never should have lost to the cowboys! 04:14:06 yeah - they had a great season 04:14:20 we should never have lost to the falcons and titans and vikings 04:14:23 i don't hate the pack as much as i did when steve young was around (a few years ago) 04:14:32 you lost to the vikes??? 04:14:34 for shame 04:14:40 yup - got killed 04:14:50 nothing, however, compares to my hatred of the cowboys of the early nineties 04:14:54 oooo..... 04:15:06 was that the game that moss had three tds? 04:15:07 actually, i hated the cowboys then too. 04:15:13 we always lost to them 04:15:16 ugh. how could you not? 04:15:24 yeah, but you always lost to everyone. :) 04:15:27 remember, i used to be a semi-cowboys fan 04:15:33 i loved staubach and dorsett 04:15:33 WHAT??? 04:15:36 oh man. 04:15:42 but as soon as they got rid of landry, it all ended 04:16:00 true enough. 04:16:12 gb was lousy for a long time, but they were always fun to watch (almost) 04:16:15 although, i do kinda like that the cowboys had their own team brothel. 04:16:33 wow - never heard about that 04:16:41 i actually liked GB when they had the majik man. 04:16:52 yeah - he was fun to watch 04:16:57 and the WR from stanford. crap... what was his name? 04:17:03 "after further review, the bears stll suck" 04:17:15 jeff query? 04:17:18 no... 04:17:22 the really good one. 04:17:26 james... 04:17:29 lofton? 04:17:34 yes! 04:17:38 he was awesome 04:17:50 until he sexually assaulted someone and got kicked outta town 04:17:53 what? 04:18:00 is that what happened? is that why he left? 04:18:02 whoops 04:18:05 small place to do that. 04:18:08 just ask chmura 04:18:13 yeah.. they don't tolerate that stuff 04:18:16 exactly 04:18:31 remember lynn dickey? 04:18:39 before my time... 04:18:41 what about him? 04:18:44 he could throw the ball like marino. 04:18:49 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 04:18:57 we lost to the redskins 48-47 on monday night once 04:19:03 what a game! 04:19:03 whoa 04:19:06 must have been 04:19:18 i knew a guy that grew up in GB who told me a funny story 04:19:45 he said he and his friend were at a bar one night when sterling sharpe and some white guy came in and sat next to them 04:20:00 at some point, sterling got up and went to the bathroom. 04:20:29 so they leaned over and said, "hey, is that sterling sharpe?" (of course, how many black guys are in GB that aren't on the team?) 04:20:38 the white guy goes, "yeah, that's him." 04:20:45 so they ask, "who are you?" 04:20:59 and he says, "i'm brett favre. i'm the new back-up QB" 04:21:05 haha 04:21:08 and they were like, "oh, that's nice. never heard of you." 04:21:15 that's awesome 04:21:34 later on, after sterling comes back, favre gets up and oges to the bathroom 04:21:51 so they lean over to sterling and go, "hey sterling, who's that new guy" 04:22:02 and sterling goes, "why, what did he tell you?" 04:22:17 and they say, "well, he said that he's new backup QB." 04:22:35 and sterling replied, "he said what???!!! that lying sack of ....!!!!" 04:23:20 so they had a chance to get to know favre before he got major, but alas... they got tricked 04:23:50 wait, so it wasn't favre? 04:24:00 no it was favre. 04:24:06 sterling was fucking with em 04:24:08 wait. 04:24:14 i think i screwed up the story. :( 04:24:18 lol 04:24:26 i was getting confused :-) 04:24:32 i think what happened was this... 04:24:40 favre was the first one to go to the bathroom 04:24:54 and they leaned over and asked sterling who was the new guy 04:25:11 and sterling said, "ah, he's nobody. but he likes to say he's the new backup QB" 04:25:21 ahhhh 04:25:27 and then when sterling left, they started talking and they didn't care that he was the new QB 04:25:37 whoops. i really f**ked that story up 04:25:39 sorry 04:25:47 anyway, it was funny when i heard it 04:25:47 haha - np 04:25:55 oh... and the packers still suck 04:26:08 i sense an inner admiration ;-) 04:28:23 no, that's the vomit journeying up my esophagus 04:29:14 i love your descriptiveness 04:29:40 heh 04:32:15 ok guys, have a good eve 04:32:17 talk to you tomorrow 04:32:22 talli has quit ("later later later") 04:34:42 darn. I "improved" the logo a little. 04:34:50 now talli missed it. 04:35:50 schweeeet! 04:37:05 I tried adding fire in the background, but it wasn;t working. 04:37:21 Maybe I'll post it to the new name thread as a sense of humour test. 04:37:33 haha 04:38:34 but I think there may be too many new people who would not "get it" 04:38:46 of course maybe they are the ones I should "give" it too :) 04:39:05 yeah 04:39:20 or if people complain, say that rzolf posted under your name ;-) 04:40:56 heh 04:41:26 maybe I'll do a little more survey here first. 04:42:08 I need to write a little program to test every domain name Openfoo against a disctionary to see whats left. 04:42:24 haha 04:49:59 oops 04:50:08 chump can't handle <> in the title 04:50:30 its not turning them into XML entities 04:50:54 GraphicsMan has changed the topic to: OpenACS: Free Web Toolkit http://openacs.org 05:10:17 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 05:10:29 an interesting view point: http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2002/01/10deathstar.html 05:12:49 here's the problem that i have with his theory 05:13:11 how the hell do people find the time to analyze shit like this? 05:13:20 other than that, it's pretty cogent 05:14:21 * GraphicsMan works on the top secret project... 05:24:37 djg (~dirk@pD9E10D01.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openacs 05:25:28 oh man, its 5:26 already :) 05:25:34 gotta get this clock fixed 05:35:53 vinod: add up all the time that you might spend masturbating, having sex or thinking about sex, and just THINK about what you could do with it! 05:36:13 all that energy, all that time... man. serious world peace could be had. 05:36:36 or, you could spend too much time thinking about the plausability of space sanitation schemes 05:37:51 heh 05:39:10 adventures of garphicsman: 05:39:42 GraphicsMan: i fear you may be working too hard 05:39:47 client with no money: I want you to design something. Do what you think is right, you are the expert 05:39:52 gm: ok 05:40:09 c: this is not what I had in mind, you are wrong. do this instead 05:40:15 gm: ok here are the changes 05:40:39 c: no this is wrong. you didn't do what I asked. use your judgement 05:40:41 etc... 05:40:51 good thing I am not busy. 05:41:22 substitute design for program as necessary, 05:42:39 lather....rinse...repeat... 05:43:47 ah, no, you have slept plenty. it is only that your nemesis... the client 05:44:07 GraphicsMan: my solution has always been to tell the client that he or she is an asshole when they do something like that 05:44:20 of course, that has... undesirable effects 05:44:22 heh... 05:44:27 but its quite refreshing 05:44:48 how much work are you giving this guy for no money? 05:45:01 not much 05:45:07 btw, luke and i were thinking about the webdav thing and we think we have a solution 05:45:17 good. don't waste yourself. 05:45:23 its all graphic design, and he actually hasn't received any work, just looked at it :) 05:45:32 talli: excellent! 05:46:28 the solution is to basically use apache as the web server and aolserver as the "app server". pretty straightforward, really :) 05:46:44 aha. I though that was a plan already, 05:46:47 it would be really nice if the fastcgi stuff was done, but it doesn't look like it will be coming anytime soon 05:46:59 the trick is gettng the webdav stuff into the database... 05:47:03 yes, that was a plan 05:47:17 I think webdave could be implemented pretty easily as filters in AOLserver. 05:47:19 well, i'm not sure it's totally critical to get it into the database 05:47:31 how do you mean? 05:47:35 s/webdavE/webdav :) 05:47:57 Webdav is just a set of HTTP headers. so you need to catch the webdav headers and process them accordinly. 05:48:19 Ah. depends on what you are doing. 05:48:48 you can always use static pages to enable search and templating. 05:49:28 yes, i think that we would mostly be doing static pages 05:49:41 but there is serious advantage to having full webdav support 05:49:50 Yes. definitely 05:50:31 Will the writers be using say Word and uploading that, which is then processed ont he server? or are they writing in HTML? 05:50:32 but webdav in apache is quite mature 05:50:43 probably an app like dreamweaver 05:50:56 cool. you could always run apache behind AOLserver.... 05:51:14 instead of in front. so it gets the files into the filesystem which AOLserver then processes. 05:51:47 What exacrtly are you using AOLserver for in this process? :) 05:52:07 aolserver would generate the dynamic pages 05:52:28 the other advantage of apache, from what luke mentioned, is its powerful cacheing features 05:52:50 for very heavily trafficed sites, you can run apache in front to cache pages that are generated by aolserver 05:53:03 then you probably do want to use AOLserver templating so they are conistent. I can't imagine maintaining an ADP template along with a dreamweaver template set. 05:53:19 talli: yes, or squid or some other proxy server type of thing. 05:53:26 AOLserver can cache its own pages though. 05:53:51 Also it has more knowledge of which pages should be cachable I think. :) 05:54:04 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs 05:54:04 well, for CMS purposes, we're not really interested in sticking things in the DB. although from what i gather it's reasonably possible to do so wiwth webdav 05:54:05 but it really depends on exactly what you application is. 05:54:12 ? 05:54:20 very interesting. anti-ETP? 05:54:23 :) 05:54:24 i mean, subversion uses BerkeleyDB 05:54:40 yes, veyr much anti-ETP now. at least luke is increasingly so 05:54:47 zope uses the zodb (webdav compliant as well ;) 05:54:52 heh 05:55:00 very interesting. 05:55:11 ETP is not doing it for your projects? 05:55:12 the amount of time it takes to build features into ETP that exist in usual CMS desktop apps is really quite prohibitive 05:55:24 why is that? 05:55:26 CMS desktop apps? 05:55:44 like dreamweaver, with GUI WYSYWIG features 05:55:54 spolsky really kinda got it right 05:55:57 Dreamweaver is a crappy writing application. 05:56:04 it's just easier with a desktop app 05:56:10 for a static site yes. 05:56:26 A desktop app is best for writing. 05:56:56 if webdav is an HTTP protocal, why would it be so much different from ETP putting the content you write in the browser into the DB? 05:57:01 I am leaning towards some sort of XMLRPC/SOAP interface to ETP or whatever CMS like application is on the server. 05:57:06 that uses HTTP as well, right? 05:57:19 but not so great to do concurrency with a desktop app 05:57:55 the thing is people want to use their normal desktop apps for writing content... not the cms app for it. 05:58:05 talli: webdav is a standardized protocol to handlle versioning etc... 05:58:23 hazmat: sure. word is programmable (VB ick, but it will work) 05:58:35 GraphicsMan is now known as davb 05:58:37 ok. so it might be easier to do it with XMLRPC or SOAP? that's just as fine by me... 05:58:49 easier? maybe. different, yes :) 05:58:54 GraphicsMan: any com client can script word... 05:59:07 hazmat: ah cool,. say Python? 05:59:12 :) 05:59:31 yes, i've scripted excel to a tcl gui for a client via python ;) 05:59:33 I am all for everything EXCEPT openacs being written in a non-Tcl language :) 05:59:46 excellent. 06:00:20 davb: i thought you wanted to see some python in OACS? 06:00:44 It would be cool, but I don't know if that will really happen :) 06:00:52 * hazmat feels like he missed an essential part of this conversation. 06:02:26 oh, i agree 06:02:29 it would be hell 06:02:40 much less time than that... 06:03:06 the whole acs4 project was written in less time than that. 06:03:24 it would take 1 person 3 months if. 06:03:47 not to mention that there would have to be a thread on teh bboards that would overload the server 06:04:05 getting the community to accept could take 2 years. 06:04:24 hazmat: yes. 06:05:58 how could it take _forever_ to rewrite in Java, but only 3 months in python? 06:06:16 and alot less people. 06:06:28 you keep the same core. 06:07:00 openacs4 core, you get to keep all the relational stuff, write some classes for the core, you get to reuse all the queries... it wouldn't take that long. 06:07:15 ok...ready....go 06:07:20 * davb starts the stopwatch :) 06:07:42 ok. it would probably take me a year to learn python though ... 06:08:13 maybe not. I am back into programming....tcl was my reintroduction after 10 or 12 years. 06:08:38 for me i don't see the point at the moment. 06:09:22 aha. right. 06:09:42 if i can get a good or mapping layer to pg/oracle than it might be more interesting.... but i'm not gonna have time for that for a few months. 06:11:33 I just want everything.... 06:13:32 you can have what ever you want if you're willing to do it yourself. 06:15:06 and if you know what you're doing (an area that i'm lacking) 06:16:38 right. its on my list on things TODO 06:18:02 and then some company says its patented and slaps you with a lawsuit. 06:18:58 ah. 06:19:02 what fun. 06:24:02 whoof. it's 1 AM out on this side for davb and me. 06:24:09 davb, what are you doing still up? 06:24:19 talli: you mean its early? 06:24:40 I am working on this design I was supposed to finish in october :) 06:24:49 I am on a roll, in the zone, etc... 06:25:47 keep rollin' baby!!! 06:37:40 davb has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:10:13 talli has left #openacs 07:11:31 vinod has quit ("changing universes") 07:21:08 hazmat has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 07:21:08 jim has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 07:21:08 docwolf has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 07:21:08 djg has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 07:22:17 hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #OpenACS 07:22:17 djg (~dirk@pD9E10D01.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #OpenACS 07:22:17 jim (~jim@12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com) has joined #OpenACS 07:22:17 docwolf (~docwolf@67.32.238.80) has joined #OpenACS 07:22:24 [#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 07:23:11 hazmat has left #openacs 10:17:06 djg has left #openacs 11:25:05 rzolf (~rolf@67.32.238.80) has joined #openacs 11:25:20 rzolf has quit (Client Quit) 13:45:38 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 13:45:51 * davb arrives at work with not nearly enough sleep... 13:49:24 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.28.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 14:12:34 * davb is working with clueless fools that get paid alot more than he does. 14:14:53 :-( 14:15:20 *rimshot* 14:15:44 so I hear John Sawyer got the axe 14:15:47 there is still some justice in the world 14:16:02 who was john sawyer? 14:16:23 the sysadmin manager manager 14:16:29 toadie middle manager 14:33:11 jim has quit (Remote closed the connection) 14:50:40 good example: alleged programmer spends 1/2 day writing a reports to print out two fields from one table, ordering the report by the data in one of the fields. 14:51:21 select a,b from table order by a; 14:54:24 heh, yeah I know that. I think he feels a need to make everything look incredibly diffcult so he can justify it taking a week to do something that takes 1/2 hours 14:54:45 oy 14:55:00 I'm always afraid to try stunts like that 14:55:05 figuring I'd get found out and sacked 14:55:09 then I see losers like that pulling it off 14:55:11 just makes me mad! 14:55:22 heh 14:55:35 well, that and the "ethics" thing my folks raised me with 14:55:48 its great for me. he makes the schedule, so I can slack off, hack openacs etc... and then finish the work at the last minute. 14:55:53 I hate it here... 14:55:55 :) 14:56:01 heh 14:57:29 ok. what is a query that can find duplicate ids? I have an id number field that access says has duplicates, but it will not reveal what they are... 14:58:46 hmmm 14:58:53 is it hard? 14:59:00 my brain hurts this morning :) 14:59:01 in oracle-land it's pretty easy 14:59:44 select a.X, a.rowid, b.rowid from oogie a, oogie b where a.X = b.X and a.rowid <> b.rowid 14:59:52 cool. 15:00:10 actually, I found the secret button that does it in access. they interface is either good, or impossible 15:07:39 thanks! 15:07:56 it works? 15:09:09 i used the built in one :) but thanks. Yours looks nicer though. the access one uses a subselect with a group by and count... 15:10:56 interesting 15:11:01 can you paste it in here? 15:11:13 I've been curious of the platform-independent way of doing that 15:11:14 sure 15:11:19 but never actually got interested enough to work on it 15:11:24 heh 15:11:44 formatting will probably suck 15:11:45