00:00:20 talli: a funny counterexample is Mike Ellison, who went there before me. He didn't get his diploma from TAMS (the school in question), as they didn't like him going to class just for exams, and he dropped out of UT when a job came along. He's done tech in 3 countries and makes more money than anyone else I know. No high school diploma. 00:00:47 sounds like some smarty pants went to that school 00:01:16 i think that's cool. many people go in many different directions 00:01:26 i went to 3 colleges. i hated each one. 00:01:38 where else besides tufts? 00:01:41 which ones? 00:01:42 but i don't think i would have done very well by dropping out without my diploma 00:02:21 i started at pomona college, a small lib arts school in SoCal. only went for a year. then went to a JC in the south bay called Foothill College for a year. then finished at tufts 00:03:11 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 00:03:36 i found the JC to be the most competitive environment actually 00:03:41 isn't foothill college that one in Los Altos with the neat radio station? 00:03:46 yeah! 00:03:55 my bro has been a DJ there for over 10 years 00:04:01 Andy Cadaver 00:04:08 that, talli, is truly awesome. 00:04:21 yeah, it's a great radio station 00:04:29 i'm convinced 6 degrees is too much. I live in a 4 degrees of seperation world. 00:05:09 how was pomona? 00:05:11 although it's gotten increasingly weird. they were playing SubPop in the mid-eighties, and when grunge exploded they felt betrayed 00:05:42 so now they refuse to play anything remotely mainstream. the result is mostly noise like chainsaws 00:06:00 rotfl 00:06:08 pomona sucked. i played football there my freshman year, which sounds far more "romantic" than the reality 00:06:24 there were about 25 guys on the team, yet i was the third string QB 00:06:34 i was known as "The Jew with the Clipboard" 00:06:48 wow - talli is a sports-stud 00:06:56 I only know one person who went to pomona, a girl who consistently, and politely, refused to date me for about 18 months....I sort of had to write that off. 00:07:00 no wonder he's always makin fun of us geeks 00:07:14 otherwise, pomona probably offered the best education of any school i attended, but the social atmosphere was essentially that of high school 00:07:21 1400 kids. 00:07:47 ugh. high school is almost the antithesis of my college experiences. 00:07:59 and no one interacted with any of the other schools, which all were kind of oddball. each school on the Claremont campus had its own oddball personality 00:08:38 claremont is affiliated with caltech xor harvey mudd? 00:08:48 well, denshi, it sounds like you didn't have too much time in high school... 00:08:51 bbl 00:08:55 heh. 00:08:59 well, there are five schools on the claremont campus 00:09:07 argh xchats window is off the top again.. 00:09:10 davb has quit ("Client Exiting") 00:09:12 Pomona College (the "elite" liberal arts school) 00:09:55 Claremont Mckenna College (the right wing liberal arts college known for having high date rape and beer consumption rates) 00:10:07 Pitzer College (hippy frisbee throwers) 00:10:09 vinod: where did you go? 00:10:20 Scripps College (all girls, and most of them ugly) 00:10:34 Harvey Mudd (genius math-science nerds) 00:10:53 univ of wisconsin (big huge state school) 00:10:59 in madison? 00:11:03 yup 00:11:09 vinod: badgers suck! 00:11:11 talli: that sounds like some kind of post-apocalyptic RPG setting. 00:11:21 it was worse 00:11:21 docwolf: you must be from michigan 00:11:29 djg (~dirk@pD9E10EC8.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openacs 00:11:36 stick it in the middle of the Inland Empire, it's the worst place in teh world 00:11:40 vinod: yeah, but when i was a wolverine, the badgers were still floundering. 00:11:47 haha 00:11:58 the Inland Empire is what they call the area 45 minutes east of LA. or, where the smog goes to die 00:12:08 right around when i left, they started winning rose bowls left and right 00:12:14 vinod: madison is cool, though 00:12:26 yeah - i had a blast there 00:12:29 there's a mountain 4-5 miles away from claremont upon which people ski that sometimes couldn't be seen due to smog 00:12:48 besides the 2 wks in january when it drops to -20 degrees, the weather is pretty reasonable 00:12:55 vinod_: i hear that madison is a nice liberal place, kinda like a berkeley of the midwest. true? 00:13:00 and it's between 2 lakes with lots of free outdoors stuff 00:13:13 talli_: yup - very liberal 00:13:15 anyway. I think what convinced me was 5 months ago, a research institute adjunct to Berkeley wanted to hire me but couldn't automatically enter me into grad school b/c I have no BS. So credentialism finally got me. 00:13:38 denshi, what grad department? 00:13:39 they were protesting having students do the 'pledge of allegiance' after 9/11 because of civil rights concerns 00:13:47 my kinda place 00:13:58 vinod: that sounds even screwier than ann arbor 00:14:05 hey now! 00:14:07 (where it is de facto legal to smoke pot in the street..) 00:14:11 CS, probably, but maybe bio. Cross-dept anyway, so what's it matter. 00:14:49 docwolf and vinod_: They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - benjamin franklin 00:14:53 docwolf: they have a 'harvestfest' every year where they block off a street, place beer-barrels on each corner and everyone tokes up 00:15:04 I wonder about social down at UT. By now all the students look like kids to me. 00:15:07 si that so wrong? 00:15:17 talli_: but they actually forbade kids from saying the pledge 00:15:24 even better! 00:15:30 haha 00:16:06 talli is an anarchist :-) 00:16:51 if you mean anarchist in the liberal, peaceful chompsky-esque way, i would tend to agree 00:17:06 not an anarchist like the clueless bastards that screwed up the protests in seattle 00:17:46 oops- gotta go. 00:17:52 good. i don't have to worry about you knocking over a starbucks. 00:18:05 goodnight, all you degree wielding, unemployed anarchists. 00:18:06 i gotta get my fix somewhere 00:19:25 in my world, drugs would be legal! you could get your fix ANYWHERE and ANYHOW!!! 00:19:39 i think talli is living in "his" world 00:19:49 then they'd have the same status as candy 00:19:50 in my world, the only "controlled substances" would be antibiotics 00:19:59 christ, my run at the senate is going to get screwed by loggy 00:20:07 lol 00:20:13 and pixie sticks. we are too fat as-is 00:20:16 denshi has quit () 00:20:27 talli: don't worry. they won't be able to prove that talli_ is talli 00:20:44 unitl now. thanks, vinod. 00:20:50 oops :-) 00:23:22 does anyone have any experience with IBM server hardware? 00:24:15 what size? 00:25:41 any. but lower end, mostly 00:25:50 x86 stuff 00:26:12 nope 00:26:13 sorry 01:02:50 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 01:02:51 talli_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:02:51 vinod_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:44:37 talli has quit ("later later later") 01:48:16 Grax (~grax@cx447399-g.omhaw1.ne.home.com) has joined #openacs 01:48:29 Grax is now known as dwalker 01:51:19 dwalker has quit (Client Quit) 02:15:37 dead-man-walking has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:15:37 docwolf has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:15:37 jim has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:15:37 djg has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 02:24:24 vinod (~vinod@209-122-233-91.s1901.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #OpenACS 02:24:24 djg (~dirk@pD9E10EC8.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #OpenACS 02:24:24 docwolf (~docwolf@67.32.238.80) has joined #OpenACS 02:24:24 jim (~jim@12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com) has joined #OpenACS 02:24:24 dead-man-walking (dlk@garrison.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #OpenACS 02:25:04 [#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 02:44:09 til (~tils@62.116.25.202) has joined #openacs 02:44:09 vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:49:00 djg has quit ("Download Gaim [http://gaim.sourceforge.net/]") 03:05:04 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 03:12:00 anyone around? 03:20:29 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:29:04 vinod (~vinod@207-172-102-146.s400.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 03:30:10 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.157.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 03:37:21 vinod: you there? 03:38:07 vinod: i was wondering how much progress you've made on the installation guide, and whether you might like someone to proof or edit it? 03:38:12 Vinod is like Elvis 03:38:54 what? you mean fat and ugly? 03:39:14 you're Everywhere, man 03:39:17 talli: i'm mostly done. i need to finish up the 'next steps' page 03:39:23 markd2: ahhh :-) 03:39:38 well, whenever you want someone to take a quick look, lemme know 03:39:40 * markd2 sings "Vinod needs boats... Vinod needs boats" 03:39:40 i'd love for you to look at it and be brutal with comments (i know you tiptoe around me all the time) 03:39:44 i'd be happy to help 03:40:26 cool. it's at http://kurup.com/acs/openacs4 but i'm going to try to upload some changes later tonight 03:44:16 ok, do you mind if i write up some suggestions? 03:44:27 not at all 03:44:55 there's comment links on each page or you can email me or whatever 03:45:04 ok, cool 03:46:31 talli: is museatech still doing openacs hosting? 03:47:33 everytime i look at my site, i have this urge to tear it apart and move it to openacs-4 04:13:32 vinod: typically, where might one find their .emacs file? 04:13:40 in what directory? 04:13:47 talli: in your home directory 04:14:01 i can't seem to find mine. yes, well... i'm using windows 04:14:06 home/vinod/.emacs 04:14:07 oh 04:14:15 i'm not sure where they are in windows 04:14:29 thanks 04:18:46 talli: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/faq3.html#startup 04:22:52 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 04:51:17 vinod, do you mind sending me the source files for the install guide? 04:51:56 so i can proof and do some editing? i hope you don't mind. rbm asked me to edit and proof them, as per the status page 04:58:54 sure - do you want them now? I'm gonna be doing some minor updating tonight 05:01:18 now is fine, or whenever. 05:01:30 oh, and do you think i might borrow your .emacs file? :) 05:01:43 i'm having some issues with some .emacs i got over the web 05:01:47 you know how those things go... 05:08:14 haha 05:08:32 i'll send them now 05:08:41 ugh.. i think i just bought into a new fad 05:09:07 have you guys heard of this new .name TLD that goes into effect tomorrow? 05:10:10 no 05:10:27 i can't tell if it's gonna be a mega-flop or not 05:10:43 the domains take the form of firstname.lastname.name 05:12:48 it may be cool (?) 05:12:59 how are people with the same name handled - i suppose first-come-first-served 05:13:05 yeah 05:13:12 that's why i hedged & signed up at register.com 05:13:29 do you have to verify your name? or can i get bill.gates.name? 05:13:40 you can do the gates thing, i think 05:13:48 though i'm sure that if someone challenged it, they'd check. 05:14:07 yeah. i should probably get my name before talli defames me 05:14:25 talli will redirect it to goatse.cx 05:14:29 haha 05:15:04 oh man 05:15:12 i just went to that website for the first time 05:15:18 holy moly 05:15:18 HAHA 05:15:27 oh christ 05:15:29 yeah right. like we believe that :-) 05:15:40 is that what you guys do in med school? 05:15:42 christ 05:15:56 child's play 05:15:58 i saw it through slashdot 05:15:59 vinod: is your .emacs for v21 or v20? 05:16:11 and thats when i decided to set my mod filter at 4 05:16:12 we see everything through slashdot, don't we vinod 05:16:27 have you seen weirder shit in med school? 05:16:36 oh yeah 05:16:42 emacs v 20.7.2 05:16:56 i'd see that kind of stuff in the call room all the time. 05:17:03 ouch 05:17:03 oof. is it a big deal if i'm using v21? 05:17:04 we had a 'swinging' hospital. 05:17:09 gimme a break 05:17:12 what's the call room? 05:17:13 * vinod makes mental note not to step foot in michigan 05:17:45 haha 05:17:57 talli: i don't know about the v20 vs v21 thing. i would guess that most of the stuff should still work 05:18:29 talli: a call room is a place where you as an intern can go & sleep when not being bothered by patients slumping over. 05:18:51 ah, ok 05:19:10 * talli will join vinod's anti-MI bias 05:19:30 vinod: another poor emacs newbie question 05:19:44 unless your attending physician is a workaholic, micromanager and decides to use the call room to sleep, so the poor intern gets stuck sleeping in the chair at the nurses station 05:19:47 wait, kinda useless since you're not using win 05:20:15 is that better or worse than docwolf's call room? 05:20:30 vinod: haha. i actually once had to sleep in a unit bed. the nurses thoguht it was hillarious :-( 05:20:32 i can't think of anything worse than docwolf's call room 05:20:59 what's a unit bed? 05:21:24 docwolf: me too once. worse night of my ICU life 05:21:30 sorry. shorthand... unit bed = a bed in the intensive care unit 05:21:32 unit bed = empty bed in an ICU 05:22:49 ugh.. those were some crazy days. 05:22:58 i'm getting antsy just thinking about it. 05:23:04 haha 05:23:21 .. the pager was like chinese water torture 05:24:04 yeah - my heart still jumps at the sound of a beeper 05:24:15 same here. it's weird. 05:24:31 a totally conditioned response. 05:25:00 it's like a reflex... hear the pager go off, yell "20 of lasix. goodnight." 05:25:07 lol 05:26:33 * vinod is picturing docwolf hearing a beeper go off in a movie theater 05:26:57 (.. cut to docwolf doubling over and vomiting) 05:27:21 haha 05:27:34 i could never eat when i was in the hospital 05:27:54 yeah.. it was tough 05:28:06 i thought it would get better as time went on, but to this day, i only snack when i'm working 05:28:07 though i did manage to develop a pretty good stimulant habit. 05:28:36 yeah, i was lucky to avoid that. didn't start drinking coffee daily until i became a programmer 05:28:59 it's a curse. 05:29:15 so... did you guys hook up with the other drs and nurses as much as the drs and nurses on ER do? 05:29:21 HAHAHA 05:29:48 * vinod has no comment (and hopes that the rumours fly) 05:29:49 dude.. don't mix biz & pleasure! 05:29:58 those nurses can make your life a living hell 05:30:34 as you may have heard in biz school, docwolf, "don't get your meat where you get your bread" 05:30:48 haha 05:31:04 i only hooked up with one classmate, then realized it was a pretty bad idea. 05:31:12 med or biz school? 05:31:20 talk about being in a fishbowl 05:31:24 med. biz school was like a vacation. 05:31:46 we only had like 120 people in my med school class, so it was a really bad idea. 05:32:05 where did you go to med school? 05:32:14 university of michigan 05:32:21 we started with 150 people 05:32:22 and for biz? 05:32:27 michigan. 05:32:33 and undergrad? 05:32:44 state university of NY @ binghamton 05:33:07 ah, ok. 05:33:20 i was wondering why you weren't a raving wolverine fan 05:33:38 the novely wore off after like 5 years. 05:33:48 after a while, football saturday just meant more traffic 05:33:53 :) 05:33:56 what about bball? 05:34:08 michigan bball has totally sucked for most of the 1990s 05:34:15 hockey is currently the other big thing 05:34:26 hockey games are a blast 05:34:33 hockey was my favorite sport to watch in madison 05:34:54 it was great. the people were like animals. 05:35:15 something about the midwest and hockey... normally reserved people get nutty. 05:35:45 haha 05:36:09 it's all the dairy 05:37:02 ok guys, speak with you tomorrow 05:37:04 have a good night 05:37:06 talli has quit ("later later later") 05:37:06 l8r 05:51:24 rzolf (~rolf@67.32.238.80) has joined #openacs 05:51:29 uh oh. 05:51:56 yowza 06:22:55 rzolf has quit ("BitchX: nine out of ten doctors recommend it") 07:19:49 dead-man-walking is now known as dlk 07:28:20 vinod has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:32:11 til (~tils@62.116.25.202) has joined #openacs 10:23:24 dlk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:44:10 dlk (dlk@garrison.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs 11:45:32 dario (dlk@garrison.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs 11:47:22 dlk has quit (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 12:04:08 dario is now known as dlk 12:09:45 jim has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 12:09:45 docwolf has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 12:10:28 docwolf (~docwolf@67.32.238.80) has joined #OpenACS 12:10:28 jim (~jim@12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com) has joined #OpenACS 12:38:48 dlk is now known as dead-man-walking 13:08:12 dead-man-walking is now known as dlk 13:14:04 djg (~dirk@pD9E10258.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openacs 13:24:08 dlk is now known as dead-man-walking 13:45:49 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 14:06:15 anybody know freezope.org? (it's down right now) 14:06:50 nope 14:07:15 they give you a free zope installation to play around with it 14:07:47 with its own subdomain, like tilsplayground.freezope.org 14:07:59 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.129.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 14:08:51 A friend of mine has set up a poll there, so naturally i wrote a little ballotstuffing script, and voted like 100 times, now the whole site is down ;-) 14:10:50 cool. That is neat. 14:11:10 the free zope installation is a great idea. Now we need someone to do that for OpenACS :) 14:11:29 yeah 14:12:43 uhoh, did I just volunteer? :) 14:15:28 sounds like it to me! 14:19:06 ack. 14:19:24 It will be a little tight on my 256mb ram AMD k6-500 14:20:51 i think its more of a challenge then free zope installations ... you would have to run a lot of aolserver processes in parallel, which take a lot of resources 14:21:16 yes it sure does. 14:21:52 one thing would be to limit each setup to a certain small number of threads. 14:21:53 also to make it real useful you would have to provide shell access ... or some other way to alter files in the installation 14:21:59 yes. 14:22:20 does freezope only allow web access to Zope? 14:22:28 i think so, yes 14:22:34 ah. 14:22:37 now there is no access at all ... ;-) 14:22:44 heh 14:22:52 i'll mail the webmaster 14:27:10 ironically the poll was about "what's the future: zope, openacs, php, jsp ...". Of course my script selected openacs - seems like the system wanted to protect itself from that 14:27:23 heh 14:27:47 hopefully in the future there will be choices just like now. 14:27:49 :) 14:28:01 I like OpenACS but its kinda big for a little personal site. 14:28:16 you just need a bigger machine :-) 14:28:49 aha 14:28:53 that explains alot. 14:33:39 wow, the host node map can map to any URL, not just a subsite package instance. 14:33:40 cool. 14:34:06 except now I have to wait for the DNS to propagate to test it. 14:34:49 davb: is the target url still unique? last time i looked you couldn't poing bla.com and www.bla.com to the same url i think 14:35:27 I am not sure. I used dave.deepskydesign.com and test.deepskydesign.com 14:35:33 let me see what the admin page says... 14:37:38 I have deepskydesign.com and dave.deepskydesign.com attached to / now. but I can't test it quite yet :) 14:37:54 (actually that will definitely break. deepskydesign.com already goes somwhere else) 14:38:07 but it lets me assign it anyway. 14:38:08 you can edit your /etc/hosts file to test it 14:38:17 aha. 14:39:03 if I edit etc/hosts does it "just work"? or do I need to reload something? :) 14:39:16 it should just work 14:39:20 hmmm. 14:39:31 you can test it with ping or something 14:39:51 I think my resolv.conf is misconfigured for it to work... 14:41:12 try to assign a third hostname to / - that won't work. grr 14:41:15 oops nm :) 14:41:36 til you really want multiple host names to the same URL? 14:42:25 at least domain.com and www.domain.com 14:42:47 for /? Just do that in DNS and use ForceHostP 14:43:04 I don't think that works for any other URL though... 14:45:29 yeah, in case you want virtual.com and www.virtual.com to map to /virtual 14:47:04 til: aha. I can imagine myself needing that. i am planning on putting at least two small sites on one OpenACS install so they can use templating and ETP 14:47:42 also it fails with an ugly 500 if you try that. i'll put that in sdm 14:48:25 the search indexer REALLY puts alot of crap in the log. 14:49:03 aha. the host-node map doesn't allow duplicates. weird. 14:49:40 * til writes an apology to the webmaster of freezope.org, who discovered that my email came from the same netblock as the script was run that crashed their site 14:50:05 oops 14:50:27 that's why you should enlist skr1pt k1ddi3s to do that work for you 14:50:35 horrible failure in the script kiddie exam 14:50:41 yeah 14:52:08 til: I think another column is needed is the host node map for the canonical host name for each URL so it can redirect if it finds one of the others. forcehostp for subsites. although it should work without it. 14:53:15 good idea 14:58:01 uhoh, did I volunteer again? 14:58:08 * davb keeps his mouth shut! 14:58:36 I am also getting myself into trouble on the bboard right now... 15:00:07 :) 15:45:21 dead-man-walking is now known as dlk 16:22:24 dlk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:33:25 talli (~user@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs 16:35:24 hi talli 16:37:26 hey davb. interesting thread about keywords 16:39:59 yes. there is alot that can be done with it. but it needs to be well thought out so we only have to rewrite it once :) 16:40:26 and I am not the person to do that. I basically have no clue what a good design is. 16:40:52 yeah. i thought he made a good point about functionality vs complexity 16:41:06 some people are making noise that OACS is way too complex right now 16:41:30 It really is not. you don;t need to KNOW all of that to use it. I only know how the parts of the code I touched work. 16:41:34 others may think in order to gain some of the functions of other apps we need to go in their directions 16:41:37 But I can build a site with it. 16:41:52 yeah, then there are those that are fine with it :) 16:42:02 We need a better admin UI. 16:42:05 Next release :) 16:42:23 Neophytos has some really good ideas on how to standardize across the system. 16:42:28 but there are some who really liked the old way of getting their hands right into the db tables rather than going through the CR or acs_objects 16:42:33 that will help tremendously. 16:42:39 talli: they can use OpenACS 3 :) 16:43:00 That is better for hacking togther a bunch of unrelated code. 16:43:27 but to build a usable system than can be easily extended OACS 4 is much better. 16:43:28 yeah, that's true. but it's also really ugly 16:43:56 The service contract stuff really changes how the different packages will intereact. 16:44:12 I think over the year we will end up with a much different system. 16:44:24 with the underlying data model from ACS. 16:44:44 yeah, i agree. i've spoken with neophytos about some of his ideas and they sound great 16:45:54 personally, i'm going to make three things my personal mission: 16:46:00 one thing I am curious about is the other toolkits communities. i.e. I have practically no programming experience, yet I am a member of the team. 16:46:01 1) helping with the docs so that they are readable 16:46:22 2) getting someone to code some o fhte debugging tools 16:46:27 3) get webDAV support :) 16:46:34 talli: excellent goals. 16:46:43 BTW, have you ever seen Radio Userland? 16:46:50 its an interesting desktop tool. 16:46:54 well, to tell you the truth, i didn't know you don't have any dev expereince 16:47:01 :) 16:47:05 well I have some now. 16:47:06 i mean, neither does vinod, and you both fake it pretty well 16:47:20 no, i haven't used radio userland, although it seems really cool 16:47:25 right. what I mean is we can fit in with DonB, DanW, etc... 16:48:17 If you produce code, you are accepted in out community. If the code needs work, they help you with it, make suggestions etc... 16:48:25 yeah, the great thing about the OACS community is a mega-programmer like donb is willing to accept and work with anyone that is committed to helping 16:48:31 s/out/our 16:48:37 right 16:48:55 the thing about userland stuff is that they have great ideas but i've heard they don't implement it so well 16:49:57 yes. well the first version was cool, but practiaclly unusable. the new release sounds really nice. I haven;t tried it yet. 16:49:58 i don't really trust winer, but he certainly is on the cutting edge of thinking how to let apps collaborate 16:50:29 Anyway, its a great thing to check out to get ideas of how a desktop writing app can connect with the web. 16:50:55 what does the new one do? 16:51:17 basically the same thing, it just does it well. I will tell you more after I actually install it :) 16:51:38 Also, it has a built in scripting language so it can be extended. 16:52:10 :) 16:52:18 is frontier any good, though? 16:52:41 Frontier is an interesting environment. I would say it is not a great scalable web server and database though. 16:52:58 But it is supposedly easy to learn. 16:53:08 yeah, scalability is what i've heard about 16:53:26 john sequiera (another uber-coder) has used it, and built his site in userland 16:53:32 he says it's nice for little CMS sites 16:53:38 yes. 16:55:41 do you know of any commercial company that offers full BSD support, other than wasabi? (http://www.wasabisystems.com) 16:55:47 thinking mostly of freebsd 16:56:30 sorry. 16:56:59 weird that no one does 16:57:08 at least not like RH or Suse 16:57:29 i wonder if it's because freebsd only really runs on x86 16:57:52 could be, but really most people use that for servers. 16:58:25 I would guess most Linux companies advocate for x86 hardware... 16:58:34 true. but if you're a big enterprise (where the money really is) then you probably buy a sun, HP or IBM mainframe 16:58:40 which linux supports 16:58:44 yes I could see that. 16:58:54 djg has left #openacs 16:59:05 or Sun or Compaq. thats about it for "big iron" :) 16:59:22 but they run Linix too. 17:00:08 right 17:00:15 netbsd runs on those, though, but it doesn't seem to have the following yet 17:00:25 I am just a little web services for small business (very small) kinda guy :) 17:00:47 netBSD is only popular I think for web and other internet servers. 17:01:22 I want to look into running multiple small sites with one OpenACS and one postgresql database. 17:01:23 yeah. and the fact that AOLserver can't run on it yet because of thread issues probably means that it's still maturing 17:01:40 i see. 17:01:42 but from what i've heard, it's the best one out there in terms of its core architecture 17:01:50 FreeBSD? 17:01:53 supposed to be beautiful and very clean 17:01:56 netbsd 17:02:02 Ah. 17:03:02 i know a netbsd developer, and he's quite good. he's also fanatical about netbsd and GOOD (TM) operating systems 17:03:11 netBSD runs on every platform I have seen :) 17:03:25 his site is: http://www.sixgirls.org check out what the webserver platform is 17:03:39 mike adler, who hangs around here once in a while, introduced me to him 17:04:15 aha. i remember. very good. 17:04:35 Which BSD is the super secure one? 17:04:43 you see what he's running his site (and i think his isp) from? 17:04:45 openbsd 17:05:04 which is ironic since it's supposed to be the most closed in terms of security :) 17:05:21 talli: thanks. 17:05:46 and i hear that the lead developer is a wacko, too. which i imagine he would have to be in order to start a project that is so fanatically secure 17:05:52 he's probably a militia man 17:05:52 So netbsd looks very promising. 17:06:01 and i super portable. 17:06:02 yeah, netbsd runs on EVERYTHING 17:06:15 i guess each bsd project has a certain goal 17:06:19 Which is OS X/Darwin based on? FreeBSD? 17:06:29 freebsd's goal is to be the ultra-server on x86 17:06:30 yes. kinda like the different Linux distributions. 17:06:43 Psychephylax: you awake or around? 17:06:46 (OSX/darwin is a mix of free and net) 17:06:52 but the Linuxes are more closely related. 17:06:53 netbsd is to be super portable 17:06:59 and openbsd is to be super secure 17:07:30 talli: are you looking to see if there is a better platform for OpenACS or just generally looking? 17:07:39 i fear linux, to be honest 17:08:06 i know that this will bring the rath of others, but i fear it because it's a bit of a mess 17:08:42 interesting. I know is a mess, but it seems to work well. 17:08:59 the 2.4.15 kernel fiasco was too horrible, as bad as anything MS ever put out. it was solved quickly, but still 17:09:04 yeah, it works really well. 17:09:13 yes, that was a big problem. 17:09:22 but, for instance, there is a really great ISP in NYC called Panix 17:09:30 (http://www.panix.com) 17:09:35 of course, important servers aren;t upgraded to the newest kernel the same day its released :) 17:09:42 davb: that's true 17:10:05 but panix is run by some super clued in sysadmins 17:10:24 they have a whole bunch of different machines running, from old sun boxes to quad xeons 17:10:39 becuase they want to have a single OS enviro, they run netbsd across all of them 17:11:09 right. 17:11:37 also, one of the issues with linux is that each distro has its own directory structure, many of which are non-standard. so if you're a sysadmin, you need to remember and be familiar with how each distro is set up 17:11:46 no, we collo there 17:11:52 ah. 17:11:52 they wouldn't host our stuff 17:11:52 ok. 17:12:17 talli: there are really only two directory structures... and smart software can figure it out... 17:12:23 rzolf (~rolf@67.32.238.80) has joined #openacs 17:12:27 that's true 17:12:38 but with a BSD, it's the same across each distro 17:12:41 rzolf has left #openacs 17:12:49 ah. they are smarter. 17:13:40 check out rolf's troll post about linux vs. bsd. i'll get it for you 17:13:59 "troll" is docwolf's word for it. not mine :) 17:15:24 ok. brb 17:15:38 (http://www.spatula.net/proc/linux/index.src) 17:17:49 many of the items in this list are old or out of date 17:18:51 but the points about the general linux community, non-standard approaches and how other things work are a little too true 17:20:47 some. alot of it isn't necessarily a big problem though. Plenty of software can compile on Linux nad BSD, but it requires them to do work in the configure scripts and makefiles. 17:22:16 Basically it depends on your point of view. It's probably good to know both :) 17:23:19 yeah, but this is what bothers me: To install Joe's program, you need Bob's kernel hack, but for Bob's kernel hack, you've got to have Suzy's patches, but Suzy's patches only work with a year-old kernel, unless you get Mike's patches to Suzy's patches, but even then, those conflict with Jeff's drivers, which can be resolved onl 17:23:19 by installing Nancy's patches... 17:23:47 uh, and this: Testing? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up, i 17:23:47 is perfect. 17:23:47 -- Linus Torvalds 17:23:52 and BSD solves ALL of those problems? 17:23:58 heh 17:24:33 i've read some of linus' comments, and they truly are defined by that 17:24:40 I sometimes have trouble comopiling little crappy applications, but AOLserver, Postgresql, etc.. work fine all the time. 17:24:40 that's cool, because he's been consistent throughout. 17:24:50 right. you know what you are getting. 17:24:53 he still considers linux a hobby 17:25:12 How much is he in it? 17:25:28 that's fine, but i don't know if i want to run my client's mission critical apps on his hobby OS 17:25:35 There are alot of people who don't just do it for a hobby, IBM? 17:25:44 he still maintains final decision on kernel commits 17:25:52 yeah, and RH and Suse and many others 17:26:15 The testing might occur after Linus see its, but it has been tested. 17:27:17 go with OS X :) 17:27:23 if they had decent server hardware.... 17:27:24 i want to. badly 17:27:31 they do, from what i hear 17:27:42 i heard that the threading problem is OSX is solved raelly nicely 17:27:45 Apple? Only up to 2 processors. 17:27:55 and nothing that fits in a rack... 17:28:00 yeah, but two really powerful processors 17:28:07 that is true. 17:28:38 But they are super fast a floating point stuff. For a database server you need memory bandwidth. 17:28:42 anyway, i don't really know anything about the technical arguments between BSD and linux 17:28:53 * davb looks 17:29:31 I think there is more cultural difference between BSD and Linux, the technical difference is between Windows 2000 and anyNix 17:29:42 for me, it's more a question of the reliability of a server. if my sysadmin is good and the server ain't going down, i don't care. but i do fear linux. 17:29:53 yeah, you're right 17:30:25 i once saw a /. sig that was: BSD is for people that love Unix. Linux is for people that hate Microsoft 17:30:43 Apple servers are not up to date on memory technology.... too bad. maybe in the summer. 17:30:44 heh 17:30:48 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 17:31:11 I'll have to try BSD. I really like Linux with Xfce. the desktop is super fast. 17:31:21 only think is font display... 17:31:28 and no graphics apps. 17:31:42 So I am steering towards and iMac for that stuff... 17:32:22 i miss ya guys :) 17:32:29 so much work..soooo much work 17:32:34 good :) 17:32:34 * Psychephylax wanders off again 17:33:07 * davb wonders where everyone except talli is... 17:33:20 vinod (~vinod@209-122-236-118.s1991.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 17:33:26 aha 17:33:31 excellent timing vinod! 17:33:47 uhoh 17:33:50 i didn't do it 17:33:55 heh 17:34:58 * vinod scans the log 17:35:42 ahhh... i had a telepathic sensation that my presence was required here :-) 17:38:01 brb 17:48:23 abbaJ has quit ("Client Exiting") 17:49:29 * markd2 catches up 17:57:52 rzolf (~rolf@67.32.238.80) has joined #openacs 17:58:31 * markd2 pours ketchup on rzolf 17:59:30 you forgot the pepper 17:59:45 bitchX won't compile properly on OSX 18:00:01 you need bitch/OSX 18:00:24 i need to quit AIM totally. 18:00:30 i'm down to two "buddies" 18:05:41 ircii is a junkpile. 18:09:28 rzolf has quit ("Leaving") 18:17:53 miguel (~miguel25@cancerbero.unileon.es) has joined #openacs 18:18:05 hi guys!! 18:18:10 hello miguel 18:18:17 how are you doing? 18:18:24 i would like to ask you something 18:19:39 during xmas break someone (roberto maybe) told me that there were people working on a beginner guide for OACS 18:19:57 i am wondering if there is any web page where this info can be accesible 18:20:13 ask vinod: he is writing it :) 18:20:25 well he is writing the install guide I think... 18:21:50 but is there any web site? 18:22:41 hi miguel. i'm working on the install guide. it's at http://kurup.com/acs/openacs4/ 18:23:01 there's also going to be a separate beginner's guide, but i'm not working on it 18:23:18 there's more info on documentation status here: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/one-file?file_id=270 18:24:49 many thanks for the info 18:25:10 no problem 18:26:25 vinod are you in the states? 18:27:25 yup, in boston, massachusetts 18:27:45 in the MIT? 18:28:23 no, i work there as a physician sometimes, but i do my web-development from home 18:29:31 ok must be difficult to join the MIt 18:31:40 miguel: are you interested in working on the beginner's guide? 18:32:16 talli: i am now working on the psets using OACS 3.x 18:32:37 changing the docs for using it with PG and OACS 18:32:42 ah, i see. 18:32:46 why on v3? 18:32:58 besides doing a solution doc 18:33:02 for those psets 18:33:56 but v3 have been done already, to a great degree 18:34:06 did you mention to him that v4 hasn't been picked up yet? 18:34:38 no, no one has picked up the v4 psets yet 18:34:50 and there's really very little that will have to be ported to v4 from v3 18:34:57 in fact, it' 18:35:19 in fact, it's almost impossible to do so without a complete rewrite since the systems are so different 18:36:00 (http://www.ma.utexas.edu/~toddg/docs/psets/ 18:36:14 http://www.ma.utexas.edu/~toddg/docs/psets/ 18:36:14 A: http://www.ma.utexas.edu/~toddg/docs/psets/ from talli 18:36:21 i think i remember miguel and rbm having this same discussion a few weeks ago :-) 18:36:31 beattiek: ToddG's ported psets to PG 18:36:46 i think i had this discussion with miguel, too :) 18:36:57 there's really no need to port more than the first two psets 18:37:10 the other 3 are kind of a waste of time, to be honest 18:37:16 i like pset5 18:37:24 and who likes you vinod? 18:37:31 talli loves me! 18:37:38 true enough. true enough. 18:37:43 haha 18:38:09 miguel: it's probably best that you work on the v4 psets 18:38:26 v3 and v4 are so different that you would have to almost relearn the system 18:40:42 the first 2 psets "teach" general web-development knowledge that most people should learn 18:40:42 you would know PG, AOLserver and tcl very well, but the architecture of v4 and v3 are very different 18:40:42 who's your coord? 18:40:42 is he involved in the community? 18:40:42 yeah, that's usually what people not invovled in the community think. it's plenty stable. we've built many production system susing it 18:40:42 i haven't looked at pset 3 or 4 much, but pset 5 only adds teaching about "connect by" tree commands in oracle (not really generally useful) 18:40:42 the only thing that IS missing is documentation, like the psets :) 18:41:07 and v3 is a total mess. the standard by which v4 is being held in terms of stability and release is much much higher than what v3 ever had 18:42:03 sure. 18:42:13 but it might take you twice the amount of time 18:44:23 talk to Psychephylax :) 18:46:14 great! 18:46:16 congrats 18:46:44 that's usually the best way to start :) 18:47:50 did i recommend to push your mom for a gig? wow. i'm smart :) 18:47:59 what did i say? 18:48:04 are you listening vinod? 18:48:10 someone is speaking well of my wisdom 18:48:51 shoot. i wasn't listening 18:49:16 yeah, usually jumping into the fire is the best way to learn things. it's also the best way to make mistakes. but that's only bad if you don't learn from them. 18:49:39 ;) 18:49:57 true enough. 18:50:17 hey vinod, did you learn from that mistake that resulted in that unfortunate lobotomy? 18:50:36 well, i didn't need all that brain anyway 18:50:52 miguel: just don't make the system too bad. you'll need them for a reference later when you want to charge someone $100/hr 18:50:56 * vinod has learned not to do self-lobotomy again 18:53:13 good luck miguel 18:53:19 thanks 18:53:33 miguel has quit () 19:24:20 talli has left #openacs 19:56:27 * davb waits for beta... 19:57:11 * davb wonders if rbm is available... 19:57:22 but he probably should read the documentation docs first... 20:00:47 davb: do you remember if you had to do some symlinking (of the tcl libraries) to get the openfts search driver to compile on debian? 20:01:12 vinod: yes. if you install the Tcl package... 20:01:19 no, wait... 20:01:28 I think you can just specify it when you ./configure 20:01:40 using --with-tcl, right? 20:01:43 I had to specify the aolserver dir, postgresql dir and tcldir to make it work. 20:01:55 I knew I should have written it down :) 20:02:02 np 20:02:05 i got it to work 20:02:13 excellent, 20:02:16 but i just wanted to make sure i wasn't doing extra steps 20:02:21 I think last tiem I did symlink some stuff. 20:02:28 cuz i'm gonna put it in the docs 20:02:34 the makefile needs to be tweaked to work better with debian. 20:02:40 cool! 20:04:41 vinod: I think it will work if you just specify the 3 withs. 20:05:50 it seems to :) I just tried again, 20:06:56 yeah - it worked that way for me to. (actually didn't need to pg with, since my it looks at /usr/local/pgsql by default) 20:07:02 thanks dave! 20:08:14 np. I knew there was something I wanted to save to help people out :) 20:08:30 the other steps in the openfts-driver install are all the same. 20:10:25 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 20:12:06 vinod has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 20:12:06 markd2 has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 20:17:16 vinod (~vinod@209-122-236-118.s1991.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #OpenACS 20:17:16 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.129.alltel.net) has joined #OpenACS 20:17:36 hi talli. 20:17:48 is anything changing in the ETP datamodel? 20:20:40 brb 20:20:44 davb has quit () 20:47:14 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 21:21:17 davb has quit () 21:26:33 rzolf (~rolf@67.32.238.80) has joined #openacs 21:26:50 totally useless dorks on #python. 21:28:44 i knew there would be something that i didn't like about python ;-) 21:28:55 ugh. 21:29:02 we may not be useful, but we're not dorks 21:29:55 * vinod waits expectantly for someone to contradict him on point #2 21:33:43 * rzolf enters rant mode. 21:35:45 so the docs on this webware thing 21:35:48 are inaccurate 21:35:53 there is no irc channel 21:36:02 they have a stupid "Wiki" instead of a forum. 21:36:07 ugh 21:36:27 wiki! wiki! wiki! 21:36:30 i always have trouble finding stuff on wikis 21:36:43 * markd2 is proud to be a dork 21:36:51 I like wikis for just random "goof-off:" browsing 21:36:54 yeah, but markd2's not useless 21:37:04 markd2: me too - like wikipedia 21:37:05 at least, not yet. muahahahaha 21:37:06 dorks are ok. but slashdorks are not. 21:37:08 uh... never mind 21:37:14 slashborks 21:37:21 borkbots. 21:37:22 I'm still wearing pants 21:37:47 is markd2 transitioning to skirts now too? 21:38:06 it nearly kilt me 21:38:11 lol 21:39:50 all documentation is lies. 21:39:51 lies 21:39:54 LIES 21:40:10 * vinod is writing documentation right now (muahahaha) 21:40:18 nooooo 21:41:22 talli has quit ("later later later") 21:42:09 * rzolf considers a career in the navy. 21:42:24 you can sail the seven seas! 21:42:37 that's a different sort of navy altogether. 21:42:42 haha 21:42:47 but can you see the seven sails? 21:43:14 i wasn't sure how close you and docwolf were getting 21:43:44 well, we are roommates, and like to drive to the gym together in our miata. 21:44:18 and my mother cries herself to sleep at night. 21:44:24 and my father "has no son" 21:44:28 lol 21:44:37 yeah, but all mothers and fathers do that 21:44:41 ... right? 21:44:53 but the latter two are mainly due to my decision to enter the lucrative field of software engineering. 21:45:01 haha 21:45:09 same here 21:45:22 as opposed to? 21:45:29 medicine. 21:45:32 this doctor thing 21:45:34 ahh 21:46:06 but my mom was right. 21:46:30 at least when someone hears you are a doctor 21:46:38 it really did fall off? 21:46:51 images of like...george clooney (or trapper john) materialize in their head. 21:47:06 when someone hears you are a computer programmer....images of "dilbert" appear in their head. 21:47:09 or doogie howser 21:47:23 "Vinod Kurup, M.D. Studly Surgeon" 21:48:02 haha 21:48:25 anyway. 21:48:39 "Extracurricular activities: Played doctor. a LOT." 21:48:43 documentation sucks. 21:49:05 ju5T uze th' k0D3 m4n. 21:49:53 i have been using the code. its like the sysadmin-y style crap that doesnt work. 21:50:02 which is frustrating. 21:50:19 "to initialize library, set bla bla = ['foo']" 21:50:36 * rzolf sets bla bla = ['foo'] 21:50:48 "SYNTAX ERROR!" 21:51:20 set_variables_after_query 21:51:25 hahah. 21:51:26 DoubleApos!! 21:51:41 everyone on #python is talking about getting drunk and coding in haskell. 21:51:51 what a sad reality i exist in. 21:51:54 haha 21:52:11 the folks in #java are griping about missing LISP features 21:52:15 ugh. 21:52:21 or else they're asking newbie questions about C and pointers 21:52:26 here we talk about sobering up and coding in fortran 21:52:27 what on earth 21:52:38 oh markd2. remember "boonga ga" 21:52:52 not off the top of my head 21:53:03 oh its that video game in japan where you poke the butt console. 21:53:15 oh yeah 21:53:28 so on #python the other day, instead of talking about being drunk and coding in haskell. 21:53:32 i'm getting nervous here, folks.. 21:53:40 everyone was talking about lewd video games 21:53:57 like that one evil old atari 2600 game "custer's revenge" 21:54:01 heh 21:54:09 Cluster's Revenge 21:54:17 so i pipe up with "oh yeah check this out...boonga ga" 21:54:31 and everyone was like "rzolf...that is totally sick. you are disgusting" 21:54:38 lol 21:54:40 and no one answered my questions. 21:55:34 it was weird. 21:55:57 its kinda like when you go into the #openacs channel and everyone gets mad about the off-topic python discussion you are trying to start up. 21:55:58 well, you ar totally sick and disgusting 21:56:04 that's why we "love" you 21:56:32 no i'm actually a really nice and normal person, but i'm like a magnet for filth and depravity. 21:56:37 haha 21:56:47 people like markd2 are just drawn to you 21:56:49 hey, i resemble that remark 21:56:51 haha 21:56:54 or docwolf. 21:57:07 rzolf is starting to nudge out philg in the quotes file 21:57:09 and his online herbal viagra clinic. 21:57:22 don't reveal the secret! 21:57:25 oops. 21:57:26 aha - the truth is out 21:57:40 i still think we should get into that dong cream advertised on the radio. 21:57:47 haha 21:57:49 lol 21:57:55 i mean, really "get into it" if you know what i mean. 21:57:56 oh my 21:58:23 that was actually sort of odd, because i dont think that kind of radio ad would get aired in MN. 21:58:51 (there was some radio ad about "male enhancement cream" on the local radio) 21:58:51 but they wouldn't say "penis".. it was always "male tissues" 21:59:19 as if the wackos who are listening to AM radio at 3:00 in the morning would care 21:59:29 i care. 21:59:53 hehe.. what was the name of that stuff 21:59:59 can't remember. 22:00:04 see. rzolf cares 22:00:26 markd2: is the "awake respond sleep" pattern a standard thing? 22:01:00 if it's what I think it is, then yeah 22:01:07 it is what you think it is. 22:01:08 that's how the aolclerver tcl connection thread thingies work 22:01:15 cool. 22:11:29 whats a good php blog package? (aesbestos suit: on) 22:11:54 I wouldn't know 22:12:07 there's a #php 22:12:15 they're probably arguing about FORTH 22:12:30 i don't even want to know. 22:12:35 haha 22:12:44 actually i think on #python they WERE arguing about forth. 22:12:53 or was that here? 22:13:11 somewhere someone was rambling on about how cool open firmware is. (?) 22:13:21 oy 22:13:55 maybe they need that cream stuff 22:14:26 cream can't help someone excited about open firmware. 22:14:41 but it converts firmware to hardware 22:15:19 erf. 22:15:26 bu-dum-bum *BING* 22:15:33 is flaccidware.com available? 22:15:58 haha - nope it's taken 22:16:03 whoa. 22:17:11 nothing there, though 22:18:31 "Legal lingo was 22:18:31 amusing to me too, until i read through a few contracts and got a taste of 22:18:31 what coma must be like. 22:18:31 " 22:46:50 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 22:47:51 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 22:48:17 HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN! 22:48:32 decent 22:48:35 * markd2 looks around for gentlemen 22:48:50 ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO SOMEONE WHO WON'T RETURN MY CALLS. 22:49:01 what you say! 22:49:07 * vinod scrambles to returns denshi's call 22:49:26 hah! vinod has the bases! Quick, I need a plane. 22:50:53 "badger blogging, across the universe, boldly clicking forward 'cause we can't find reverse!" etc 22:50:59 heh 22:51:16 there's klingons on the starbord bow, starbord, barbord bow... better scrape them off 22:51:34 It's HTML Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it browser... 22:51:58 * talli is sorry he mised the boonga ga discussion 22:52:09 rzolf will be happy to demonstrate 22:52:28 it is kinda like that whack a mole game. 22:52:41 but there are no moles. 22:52:48 and no whacking. 22:53:23 well, "whacking" in a literal sense 22:54:01 i saw goatse.cx for the first time last night 22:54:24 heh 22:54:26 i certainly did not whack on that. although i almost sent out an internet whack to docwolf who suggested the link 22:55:07 how can i watch avis on OS X? 22:55:20 sounds like it'll hertz 22:55:38 I think ther's windows media player for X 22:55:58 can't quicktime read avis? 22:56:01 * rzolf hears the internal price is right "losing foghorn" noise. 22:56:29 well, you still get to spin the wheel... so not all is bad! 22:56:48 I want you to put me on the wheel 22:57:09 this channel is becoming more and more salacious. 22:57:13 til (~tils@62.116.25.202) has joined #openacs 22:57:21 can't we invite some ladies in here to tone it down? 22:57:25 uh oh. the log sez markd has a quotes file. 22:57:49 http://badgertronics.com/writings/quotes.txt 22:58:37 I can't figure out if rzolf just quoted himself or if you keep a realtime log. 22:58:51 it's pretty realtime 22:59:00 if something tickles me, I drop it in there 22:59:57 see - markd2 IS a bot 22:59:58 looks like markd doesn't have anything that'll ruin my future political career. 23:00:06 * markd2 beeps 23:00:46 "Oui, mem sahib. Me onum phone. Me talkum customers. White man use strange 23:00:46 words like "crash" and "bug" and "@#$@^#$". Me no likum support. Ugh." 23:00:57 i have far too many quotes in that file. 23:01:10 talli -- where are the ladies? 23:01:25 dunno. eve is available right? tracy? they could help here... 23:01:26 that's why I keep saying you have a career as a mania^H^H^H^H^H net.commentator 23:01:27 right? 23:01:56 umm.. i thought you said that you wanted to tone it _down_... 23:02:13 (ever watch eve drink?) 23:02:20 no, sorry. 23:02:33 but i hope that there will be a story coming, with or with the #s 23:02:47 ask and you shall receive 23:03:07 whoa. nice 23:03:17 i wasn't that plastered. 23:03:36 poor guidestar. 23:03:51 guidestar is all in java now :) 23:03:56 good work, guys. 23:04:06 the funny thing about that 23:04:07 poor gregh 23:04:14 is it took GS over a full *year* to get out of aD 23:04:22 their consulting company was over a year late with the site 23:04:30 then they wanted to ditch tht consulting company. 23:04:35 christ 23:04:41 because they charged over $1M 23:04:49 why did they want to get out of aD? 23:04:55 because I personally suck. 23:05:08 it was a disaster 23:05:12 horribly underscoped 23:05:14 i dont know, the project was a disaster. 23:05:17 ah, one of those 23:05:25 the conversion of the legacy site was scoped to take 2 weeks 23:05:32 whoa 23:05:40 they wanted all this stuff, but really they only wanted the same site they already had. 23:05:45 in reality it was a very weirdly programmed combination of CF pages and informix bizarreness 23:05:54 and we had to port the old sie. 23:05:56 site. 23:05:59 and it was weird. 23:06:06 like the database stored procedures make bitfields, which then the CF pulled apart 23:06:10 hehe. 23:06:13 oh yeah i forgot that. 23:06:15 plus the datamodel was *way* fuxored 23:06:18 and intermedia didn't work. 23:06:38 and rzolf & I had no clue what were were doing 23:06:39 and we had to figure out how to get the data off of casette tapes and into oracle. 23:06:41 has intermedia ever worked? 23:07:01 and barbara link quit. 23:07:12 and atisaya left 23:07:23 and I had to get the barbie jeep tuned up. 23:07:31 wonder what happenedto blink once ad.org got shot 23:07:50 i dunno i think she is loaded so it probably makes no difference. 23:08:10 docwolf still is in touch with her, i think 23:08:20 * markd2 prods docwolf 23:08:25 i think docwolf is sleeping. 23:08:46 wha 23:08:49 oh 23:08:57 guess he woke up 23:08:57 blink is living on a farm 23:08:58 anyway. even though guidestar is now on java 23:09:02 outside of providence 23:09:06 and hosted by who knows 23:09:12 doing consulting work for the local government. 23:09:15 i had to bump it up a few notches on my resume. 23:09:18 and growing vegetables. 23:09:19 ooof 23:09:22 because it is on TV all the time. 23:09:39 is it part of the networkedforgood.org silliness? 23:09:57 weren't it and helping.org somehow related? 23:10:04 yes to helping.org 23:10:58 well, that's good to know 23:11:18 markd forgets about the "bill gates wealth clock" 23:11:34 heh 23:11:35 i went to pogopet.com a couple o ftimes 23:11:37 (promoted by philg as one of the many "web apps" that he's written..) 23:11:37 that was more of an MIT property 23:12:04 yon (~yon@24-168-18-193.nyc.rr.com) has joined #openacs 23:12:07 aD built some real doozy dotbombs 23:12:12 hey yon 23:12:15 this Yonaton? 23:12:31 yup 23:12:33 Yonatan 23:12:35 dude! 23:12:40 yon. 23:12:44 mark wasssupp? 23:12:50 nammach 23:12:56 killing time before band tonight 23:12:58 i just found out about this channel 23:13:09 do you have a performance or practice? 23:13:12 yeah. some real weirdos hang out around here 23:13:14 practice 23:13:52 * rzolf is out -- food 23:13:54 maybe adam is the only weirdo 23:14:04 and rolf :) 23:14:11 * rzolf isn't weird 23:14:12 Vinod's pretty weird too 23:14:24 i am not pretty 23:14:40 who is vinod ?? 23:14:44 dude.. the Wolf Bioscience team isn't weird.. we're just shady. 23:14:45 oh man 23:14:47 that's it 23:15:01 how is boca baby ?? 23:15:12 nobody really - i just hang around for the on-topic discussions 23:15:12 it is good, but we gotta go eat. 23:15:18 it's been fun so far... but ask rzolf :-) 23:15:27 yeah, we're going out to stuff our faces. be back in a bit. 23:15:51 let me recommend that you guys go to la fusta in miami beach and then to the dollhouse 23:16:00 yon - did you see the pornolizer? 23:16:02 oh yeah 23:16:04 la fusta. 23:16:08 ok, gotta go. 23:16:11 * rzolf is away 23:16:13 no, what is that? 23:17:36 it's random every time you load it 23:18:45 to quote: 23:18:45 Dec 20, 2001: ArsDigita Answers "Bust-a-Cunt" Raunchs on the Future of ACS and Support of Open "Bitch" Source 23:19:01 I think markd has reached new levels of depravity with this one. 23:19:21 I didn't write it 23:19:25 who the hell developed this? 23:19:31 origianlly I saw it with wplug.org in the victim slot 23:19:59 why does 'wpug' ring bells for me? 23:20:06 wpLug 23:20:17 wpug sounds like a radio station 23:20:25 unh. it's a LUG. 23:20:39 http://juniks.org/ is mentioned at the bottom of the pornolizer front page 23:20:39 B: http://juniks.org/ from markd2 23:21:12 your LUG is certainly more interesting than the one I was in in Austin. There someone quit b/c another member 'disrespected christ' or somesuch nonsense. 23:21:21 heh 23:21:26 http://www.wplug.org 23:21:26 C: http://www.wplug.org from markd2 23:21:38 C:| Western Pennsylvania Linux Users Group 23:21:39 titled item C 23:21:47 C: MarkD's favorite LUG 23:21:47 commented item C 23:21:53 the channel has a monkeybot that's amusing 23:23:26 what's a monkeybot? 23:23:34 it's what we call our infobot 23:23:53 it also can play a number guessing game, has info on country codes. 23:23:57 and knows the All Your Base dialog 23:23:59 that pornolizer kicks ass 23:24:13 this truly is a depraved channel. 23:24:41 markd2 has changed the topic to: OpenACS: Free Web Toolkit http://openacs.org | this truly is a depraved channel. 23:24:42 denshi, i shan't think that your bible bangin' cohort at the austin lug would much enjoy it here 23:25:21 i like the "web cocksucker content framework" 23:25:38 maybe it whould be the "web sucker content framework" 23:26:07 it was so wierd to see someone suddenly spin off about their god in the middle of a technical discussion on unix timekeeping. It was like reading alt.religion.kibology. 23:26:25 our crew is pretty good about that stuff 23:26:34 except for one guy that wears an "abortion in murder" button 23:26:40 but he is such a mega loser, we just make fun of him 23:27:37 actually, i think there is some interesting synchronicity, if you will, with his spouting off about god during a unix timekeeping discussion. 23:28:06 speaking of alt.religion.kibology 23:28:12 if you assume god to be a celestial watch keeper, and unix to be an appropriate metaphor for our corporeal existence... 23:28:17 well, you get the picture. 23:28:45 markd2: can we pornalize the vatican website, maybe? 23:28:50 http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=m23dpdmn4t.fsf%40project.epicentre.net&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DTodd%2BGillespie%26hl%3Den%26group%3Dalt.religion.kibology.*%26selm%3Dm23dpdmn4t.fsf%2540project.epicentre.net%26rnum%3D1 23:28:50 D: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=m23dpdmn4t.fsf%40project.epicentre.net&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DTodd%2BGillespie%26hl%3Den%26group%3Dalt.religion.kibology.*%26selm%3Dm23dpdmn4t.fsf%2540project.epicentre.net%26rnum%3D1 from denshi 23:29:19 cool. the web server logs don't show the pornolized versions as coming from the pronolizer 23:29:29 a.r.k is extra fun b/c various crackpots pick fights with Kibo. I mean, that's like asking god for a violent non-sequiter. 23:29:45 Leader Kibo & I have written a play 23:30:08 http://badgertronics.com/net-humor/waitingForKibo.adp 23:30:09 E: http://badgertronics.com/net-humor/waitingForKibo.adp from markd2 23:30:25 E:| Collaborative composition with MarkD and Leader Kibo 23:30:25 titled item E 23:30:46 i must admit i am unfamiliar with this kibo person 23:31:10 http://kibo.com/ 23:31:11 F: http://kibo.com/ from markd2 23:31:14 James "Kibo" Parry 23:31:26 back inthe Good Old Days, he'd grep the usenet stream for his name, and reply to postings 23:31:31 so he was like a God that appeared out of nowhere 23:31:52 eventually alt.religion.kibology came about as an appropriate forum for discussing kibolicious theology 23:32:00 that sort of snowballed. Now his channel is filled with people trying to understand the Tao of non-sequiter. 23:32:05 haha 23:32:26 "Because KIBO MUST BE STOPPED, PREFERABLY BY A CRAZY PERSON." 23:34:08 oops -- I gave the wrong link. click on msg 31 in that thread and work your way down. 23:34:50 "Send email to people who have the power to stop James Kibo." 23:35:11 all of thm are pretty good 23:37:32 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 23:37:57 gotta run. l8r 23:37:59 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 23:38:30 myself as well. 23:38:32 denshi has quit ()