IRC log of openacs on 2002-01-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:22 [talli]

i fear ibm. i have heard nothing good about their consulting services

00:00:50 [talli]

they seem to just hire a bunch of immigrant code monkeys that they can charge at 300/hour and pay 50/hour

00:02:15 [talli]

i know one freelancer that worked on an IBM project as a manager who said that the hackers weren't that good

00:02:45 [talli]

and i know one guy who had a massive project on which IBM bid and lost to accenture. apparently IBM did a pathetic job

00:03:21 [hazmat]

depends on where in ibm.

00:03:30 [talli]

if redhat can weather the downturn, they should be in good shape given linux's reasonable maturation

00:03:40 [hazmat]

there already weathered it afaics.

00:03:48 [talli]

do you have experience with IBM?

00:03:50 [hazmat]

lots of phds at ibm as well doing research and dev.

00:03:58 [hazmat]

intern.

00:04:05 [talli]

ah, yes, but that's not their consulting services area

00:04:10 [hazmat]

no, its not.

00:04:18 [hazmat]

its more their tech. group.

00:04:28 [talli]

IBMs processor R&D area is supposed to be the best in the industry

00:05:30 [talli]

as far as RH, i hope they can weather the downturn. i hope some of the other linux consultancies can do the same, like progeny

00:11:42 [davb]

anyone want to take a quick look at this site design? http://www.okfilters.com/new/

00:13:45 [talli]

davb: it's nice, but the menu gifs don't come across too sharp

00:14:28 [davb]

talli: thanks. I'll have to tweak the anti-aliasing. what are you using BTW?

00:15:11 [talli]

IE 6 on win

00:15:17 [davb]

ok.

00:15:54 [vinod]

looks good on mozilla 0.9.7 (linux)

00:16:28 [davb]

vinod: thanks

00:17:05 [vinod]

np

00:17:05 [talli]

vinod: have you gone to games at lambeau?

00:17:32 [vinod]

just one. it's a bitch to get tickets

00:17:43 [talli]

it's that hard? whoa

00:17:50 [talli]

even just to see a game?

00:18:23 [vinod]

truthfully, it's not too hard to scalp a single ticket (which is what i did), but you can't officially buy tickets. they're sold out through the year 2040 or so

00:18:36 [talli]

jesus

00:18:47 [talli]

did you watch the games from home or tailgate?

00:19:31 [jim]

2040?? if it weren't for other things to do, moving elsewhere might be an option

00:19:44 [vinod]

when i was in gb, (for 6 months in 1999), i tailgated every wknd and then watched the game at a bar

00:20:03 [vinod]

but, i grew up in milwaukee, so, we'd just watch games at home

00:20:07 [talli]

jim: is there something else to do?

00:20:15 [dlk]

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00:20:16 [jim]

I dunno :)

00:20:21 [talli]

ah, you're from milwaukee... that explains it

00:20:33 [jim]

I guess see something else, somewhere else :)

00:20:35 [talli]

the people i know from milwaukee are true freaks.

00:20:38 [jim]

me?

00:20:47 [jim]

milawukee?

00:20:51 [talli]

no, vinod. jim, are you a freak?

00:20:59 [vinod]

i'm a freak

00:21:32 [jim]

I program computers... I guess I qualify :)

00:22:08 [talli]

jim: it also depends on how large your gut is, how long your beard is and how many OS tshirts you have :)

00:22:19 [jim]

but I play bass too :()

00:22:33 [talli]

upright or electric?

00:22:44 [jim]

elec 5 string fretless :)

00:22:48 [vinod]

* vinod realizes that the OpenACS tshirt that talli gave me was a ploy to turn me into a freak

00:23:02 [talli]

oh man. you want another one?

00:23:19 [talli]

i should fight the name change just so i don't have to burn 200 odd OACS 4 tshirts

00:23:41 [vinod]

haha

00:23:51 [jim]

I'm trying to learn something from Gary Willis... I visited him about 20 days before 911

00:23:53 [talli]

i'll sell 'em on ebay :)

00:24:03 [talli]

gary willis... where would i have heard his name?

00:24:24 [jim]

he has Holdsworth album credits...

00:24:46 [jim]

you hear him play, you jaw will fall off ;)

00:24:52 [talli]

hmmm... don't know that. maybe i'm confusing him, or i'm just trying to sound smarter than i am

00:24:56 [talli]

what kind of music are you into?

00:25:02 [jim]

..fall off trying to drop :)

00:25:13 [jim]

he plays fusion

00:25:23 [jim]

I play trad jazz right now

00:25:29 [talli]

cool.

00:25:42 [talli]

you should speak with rolf (rzolf). i guess he plays uprigth bass

00:25:51 [talli]

what kind of trad jazz?

00:26:05 [hazmat]

for me i like dead can dance, ambient electronic, rage against the machine... too young to have 'cultured' taste.

00:26:14 [talli]

ever hear of tony scherr? greg cohen?

00:26:38 [hazmat]

the second one sounds familiar...

00:27:37 [talli]

greg cohen plays bass on tom waits albums

00:28:37 [talli]

but he's primarly a jazz bassist

00:28:53 [hazmat]

ah.. to be honest, i haven't been listening to music in a long time.

00:30:39 [talli]

* talli is away: no reason supplied

00:31:06 [djg]

somebody here an expert on the templating system?

00:31:16 [davb]

I have used it :)

00:31:17 [hazmat]

no, but you can ask.

00:31:30 [talli]

* talli is no longer away

00:32:29 [djg]

hmm i wonder about the cacheing.

00:32:54 [djg]

i'm working on a clustering solution and i can't find a catch about in the template cacheing. seems to be totally transparent

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00:34:34 [djg]

huhu?

00:37:43 [davb]

I haven't looked into caching at all.

00:38:50 [hazmat]

djg: there is no caching, just compilation (there used to some options, but i dont' think they exist anymore).

00:39:01 [hazmat]

the compilation to a tcl proc makes it fairly fast though.

00:41:03 [davb]

how does it know to recompile? for example if I change a template.

00:41:27 [hazmat]

i forgot, i think it stores the mod time.

00:41:40 [davb]

ok. np, I can look if I really need to know :)

00:41:55 [hazmat]

the internals aren't very pretty cause of all the uplevel/vars.

00:42:00 [hazmat]

which drove me nuts.

00:42:10 [davb]

yes, they really scare me.

00:42:48 [djg]

hmm but soem other modules seem to be abuse the template query cacheing.

00:42:52 [djg]

guess i'll have to change those

00:58:02 [davb]

wow. dreamweaver is great for dorking around with a dozen or so static pages that you want to change the design on.

00:59:30 [talli]

davb: that's why webDAV is the answer for CMS

01:00:02 [davb]

well is it and isn't dreamweaver is good for dorking around with HTML. so it might be good for editing adp templates.

01:00:20 [davb]

for creating content, I would say it is not so great. WebDAV is still a good idea though :)

01:00:39 [davb]

I am looking at Radio Userland again.

01:01:07 [talli]

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01:01:09 [davb]

You need OS support for webDAV though. What you can do is put files into a folder and they are magically sent to the server.

01:01:14 [davb]

oh well :)

01:02:53 [talli]

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01:03:06 [talli]

hey davb, sorry, got booted

01:03:24 [davb]

np :)

01:03:55 [davb]

anyway, writing tools are very personal so we need a way to support adding and editing content from any tool using WebDAV or SOAP or whatever.

01:15:41 [talli]

yes, that's true

01:17:52 [davb]

and of course, allow uploads of word etc...

01:18:01 [davb]

and do something clever with it.

01:18:14 [talli]

well, that's teh thing. can't webdav do all that?

01:19:10 [talli]

and do it very nicely, with versioning and locking and so on?

01:20:35 [davb]

webdav is just a set of HTTP headers. It's all about moving the content back and forth and versioning. we can implement a webdav filesystem in the database to do the actual imlementation.

01:21:00 [davb]

but that just gets the files to the server. then we have to intelligently process it.

01:29:27 [talli]

well, that's true

01:29:52 [talli]

i think, though, the big part is allowing client side apps other than the browser do more work

01:40:59 [hazmat]

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01:41:27 [docwolf]

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01:41:55 [docwolf]

awright, where is that talli character? The one that was ripping on my hometown? :-)

01:44:15 [davb]

talli: YES!

01:44:16 [davb]

:)

01:44:39 [docwolf]

hehe

01:47:24 [rzolf]

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01:48:12 [docwolf]

go away rzolf, we don't want your kind here. "Boca People". harrumph.

01:48:31 [talli]

docwolf: i thought your hometown was NYC?

01:48:38 [talli]

are you in fact an old yid from Boca?

01:48:45 [docwolf]

talli: that was a long, long time ago.

01:48:56 [docwolf]

now i'm old, bitter, and wearing plad golf pants.

01:48:56 [talli]

ah, ok

01:49:04 [talli]

well, i'll send you some SPF 1000

01:49:06 [docwolf]

it's a natural progression.

01:49:17 [docwolf]

i'm getting extra-crotchety, too.

01:49:23 [talli]

i know the sun is pretty strong down there. and the humidity... OY VEY!

01:49:29 [docwolf]

hehe

01:50:01 [docwolf]

rolf and i actually went out to a "hip place" the other night, and we were afraid of the "surly teenagers".

01:50:16 [talli]

the only thing that might save you is the porn industry. but even that you said is on its way out...

01:50:38 [talli]

aren't there any hotties down at the complex's pool?

01:50:41 [docwolf]

yeah, very sad. ft. lauderdale has become too clean.

01:50:51 [talli]

or, maybe at bingo night?

01:50:55 [docwolf]

we haven't spent much time around the pool. too busy working :-(

01:50:59 [docwolf]

and getting loaded.

01:51:02 [docwolf]

on stimulants.

01:51:21 [docwolf]

(we have a starbucks and an einsteins in walking distance. very bad thing.)

01:51:33 [talli]

you writing yourself RX of ephedrine and ritalin?

01:51:40 [talli]

what's an einsteins?

01:51:47 [docwolf]

(cut to scene of docwolf's chest exploding)

01:51:57 [docwolf]

einsteins is a bagel place, but they have mega coffee.

01:52:12 [talli]

ah, einsteins = noahs, huh?

01:52:17 [talli]

jewish kitsch

01:52:20 [docwolf]

hehe

01:52:21 [docwolf]

ot

01:52:30 [docwolf]

it's like a middle-american bagel

01:52:48 [docwolf]

not the authentic NYC experience.

01:52:49 [talli]

isn't that a donut?

01:52:52 [docwolf]

haha.

01:53:04 [docwolf]

they don't have salt bagels. it totally blows. but their coffee is good.

01:53:15 [talli]

hey, what was that discussion software you mentioned?

01:53:39 [docwolf]

vbulletin. it rocks.

01:54:00 [talli]

what's it written in?

01:54:14 [docwolf]

PHP! (the Mother of All Scripting Languages)

01:54:26 [docwolf]

don't worry, it actually works properly.

01:54:35 [docwolf]

and it scales. rolf used it at winamp.

01:55:28 [talli]

and it allows for email posts?

01:55:45 [rzolf]

what is going on here

01:55:45 [talli]

it is very nice

01:55:48 [docwolf]

http://forums.winamp.com/

01:55:49 [chump]

A: http://forums.winamp.com/ from docwolf

01:55:57 [docwolf]

i am showing off your work

01:56:06 [rzolf]

oh

01:56:12 [docwolf]

and discussing our unfortunate habit.

01:56:20 [rzolf]

i am looking at your prototype.

01:56:23 [talli]

there's a lot of noise at vbulletin.org, but that can prob be taken out

01:56:30 [docwolf]

uh oh

01:56:37 [docwolf]

(docwolfs hangs head in shame)

01:56:50 [rzolf]

is there some randy file where these constants are defined.

01:56:51 [docwolf]

dude -- what's with the "tech support" forum at winamp

01:56:54 [docwolf]

????

01:56:57 [talli]

it's not Libre, though (as my buddy brad says)

01:56:59 [docwolf]

"point, click, install..."

01:57:18 [docwolf]

vbulletin is like $40 a year.

01:57:19 [rzolf]

like "PHP_AUTH_BLABLA"

01:57:31 [rzolf]

or is that coming from the session.

01:58:09 [talli]

rzolf: you talking to me?

01:58:39 [rzolf]

no, doc wolf.

01:58:45 [talli]

ok

01:59:26 [rzolf]

whee.

01:59:50 [docwolf]

(rzolf digs through code that no man should ever have to see..)

02:00:17 [talli]

it's not that much nicer than the OACS bboards, though

02:00:19 [rzolf]

it is better than acs 3.x groups

02:00:38 [talli]

you mean the admin code?

02:00:46 [talli]

the interface isn't that much better than 4

02:00:51 [rzolf]

no i mean doc wolf's code.

02:01:16 [rzolf]

vbulletin is a pile but it seems to work with minimum hassle.

02:01:22 [talli]

ah, ok

02:01:30 [docwolf]

total rube goldberg style

02:01:54 [talli]

do they have a toaster connected to an alarm clock

02:01:55 [talli]

?

02:02:07 [talli]

with a chicken in between?

02:02:08 [davb]

heh

02:02:22 [davb]

* davb looks for his "the incredible machine" floppies

02:03:09 [rzolf]

heh.

02:03:14 [rzolf]

that was a cool game.

02:03:37 [rzolf]

what talli described sounds like a swiss art film.

02:03:47 [rzolf]

only the chicken is wearing bondage gear.

02:03:59 [docwolf]

i believe that would be a german art film.

02:04:04 [rzolf]

and it cuts to a fat guy wearing a diaper.

02:04:13 [talli]

no, definitely czech film

02:04:20 [rzolf]

with the slow-motion cow mooing sound.

02:05:56 [davb]

* davb learns: do not leave the eraser collection next to the sketches you just did in reach of the 3-year-old

02:06:11 [djg]

talli: which preconceptions about czech movies do you have?!

02:06:22 [djg]

the only ones i ever saw were kids' movies...

02:06:28 [djg]

ah and the new hollywood-style breed

02:07:20 [docwolf]

what on earth....

02:07:24 [docwolf]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/01/13/bush.fainting.ap/index.html

02:07:24 [chump]

B: http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/01/13/bush.fainting.ap/index.html from docwolf

02:07:37 [docwolf]

osama bin pretzel

02:07:57 [davb]

oh my

02:08:02 [rzolf]

what on earht.

02:08:11 [davb]

you just can't write jokes like that

02:08:51 [rzolf]

what happens if bush dies? is there even a vice president anymore?

02:08:59 [docwolf]

RoboCheney

02:09:57 [rzolf]

Why Maggie Matters: Sounds of Silence, East and West.

02:10:14 [docwolf]

:-)

02:10:24 [docwolf]

who said philosophy majors are unemployable?

02:10:38 [rzolf]

heh

02:11:05 [talli]

i don't know what happens if bush dies. i guess i'll just have to wait until cnn's web poll results come in...

02:11:41 [davb]

i bet billg rigs it again

02:12:01 [docwolf]

the better question of course... who will take over after everyone in the whitehouse with Enron stock is impeached?

02:19:10 [rzolf]

i think cheney is off finding a place to hide

02:19:51 [rzolf]

the secretary of the army was an enron exec?

02:26:27 [davb]

the worst part is the CEO and enron attorney saying they welcome the justice department investigation so they can find out what happened to the company.

02:33:00 [rzolf]

on a lighter note, http://www.caninefreestyle.com/

02:33:38 [docwolf]

tjat

02:33:41 [docwolf]

that

02:33:49 [docwolf]

is even worse than http://www.pantscam.com

02:34:58 [rzolf]

yes

02:40:41 [rzolf]

www.assmorph.com

02:41:08 [docwolf]

what on earth

02:42:07 [rzolf]

assmorph.com is actually cool.

02:42:13 [rzolf]

sort of.

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13:43:33 [davb]

hello

13:49:27 [markd2]

hi

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bye

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[#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog

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17:22:01 [davb]

hello talli

17:22:14 [talli]

hey davb and the everyone else

17:22:46 [jim]

the jim says the hi :)

17:23:05 [talli]

* talli says hi to the jim

17:28:43 [davb]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23658.html

17:28:43 [chump]

C: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23658.html from davb

17:28:57 [davb]

C:|Borland demands users pay for license audit

17:28:57 [chump]

titled item C

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18:34:08 [vinod]

hey everyone!

18:34:17 [vinod]

can anyone else connect to postgresql.org?

18:34:49 [markd2]

nnope

18:34:54 [markd2]

I can't get to connectix.com either

18:35:08 [talli]

nope

18:35:25 [vinod]

markd2: i can get to connectix

18:35:33 [talli]

i can get to connectix as well

18:35:58 [vinod]

markd2: do you want me to read the page to you? ;-)

18:35:59 [talli]

does connectix work nicely, markd?

18:36:38 [markdfoo]

markdfoo (~Snak@r-41.168.alltel.net) has joined #openacs

18:36:50 [vinod]

i've used virtual pc 3.0 on my mac and it was functional. but if you made me use it for more than an hour i woulda killed you - it was pretty slow

18:37:42 [markdfoo]

I've been running the VP5 for os/x preview for awhile

18:37:52 [markdfoo]

and the day I acutally need it, it expires

18:37:59 [markdfoo]

and connectix.com is down for upgrading from VP4

18:38:17 [vinod]

doh!

18:38:26 [markdfoo]

for what I want to do - read the occasional word file, do a dba test, run oracle, it's great

18:40:13 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

18:40:25 [denshi]

oof. Crowded in here.

18:40:57 [markdfoo]

most of us are robots

18:41:07 [markdfoo]

or waiting for another name to die due to a bad ISP

18:41:16 [denshi]

I am not a bot, I am a free man!

18:42:14 [vinod]

-- said the bot

18:42:54 [markdfoo]

-- said the docbot

18:43:51 [talli]

hey denshi

18:44:22 [denshi]

yo talli.

18:44:23 [denshi]

brb

18:44:28 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)

18:46:33 [denshi]

so I'm reading the chatlogs; seeing what I've missed this wkend.

18:46:45 [denshi]

I see vinod has an open question from saturday.

18:47:18 [denshi]

23:15:18 <vinod> what's functional programming? (in a nutshell)

18:47:26 [denshi]

still need an answer?

18:48:24 [davb]

* davb finishes the chapter on quadratic equations in his albegra book!

18:48:33 [markdfoo]

woot!

18:48:49 [denshi]

bork!

18:48:57 [jim]

davb: cool :)

18:49:09 [jim]

umm, what is chump?

18:49:14 [davb]

now I have to finish up with ratios and inequalities, then on to trig!

18:49:25 [jim]

hmm, you doing precalc?

18:49:29 [davb]

chump keeps tracks of all URLs entered on a line by themselves

18:49:38 [davb]

jim: after trig, then calc, etc...

18:49:45 [davb]

chump: view

18:49:45 [chump]

A: http://forums.winamp.com/

18:49:46 [chump]

B: http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/01/13/bush.fainting.ap/index.html

18:49:47 [chump]

C: Borland demands users pay for license audit (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23658.html)

18:50:10 [vinod]

denshi: sure. i've been reading up on haskell a bit, but my mind is still a little foggy on functional programming

18:50:17 [davb]

the URLs also go to a web site: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog/

18:50:24 [jim]

is chump a general combination of an eggdrop and an aolserver?

18:50:44 [davb]

no, its written in Python. I just use it :)

18:50:56 [denshi]

vinod: in a nutshell, 'funtional programming' means no side effects. Just functions returning values.

18:50:57 [davb]

although something that worked in AOLserver would be nifty.

18:51:35 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax (proxy@ool-18baab43.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs

18:53:06 [davb]

* davb is planning on studying computer science to hopefully avoid a future of Access db hacking.

18:53:39 [denshi]

vinod: to explain using history, functional programming is a style that does not assume the existence of a von Neumann architecture, unlike the imperative languages (eg, the Algols like C). A von Neumann machine is characterized as a set of registers and code that reads and writes to those registers -- the sophmoric language design on top of that is focused on handling those registers.

18:55:06 [denshi]

other types of machines might be a stack machine (which is similar but uses stacks rather than registers), a turing machine (which will never be built), and so forth. I've never explored the LISP machine architecture, so I don't know what to say about that. Moving right along....

18:55:29 [markdfoo]

* markdfoo just invested everything in turing machine tape manufacturers

18:55:30 [markdfoo]

damn

18:56:05 [denshi]

LISP was written in an attempt to axiomatize computation. So it doesn't assume anything about the underlying machine, only that the machine can implement function calls and value returns.

18:56:29 [denshi]

but this is all a bunch of noise, I guess, if you're not already converted.

18:56:54 [denshi]

I didn't fully grasp FP until I used LISP, and the reason why is the top level.

18:57:04 [jim]

do the SICP thing at aduni.org to make it less noisey :)

18:57:37 [davb]

Ah, more people here. So has anyone read The Little Schemer (or LISPer)?

18:57:49 [jim]

I have seen the little schemer

18:57:54 [markd2]

markd2 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))

18:58:04 [jim]

never opened it :)

18:58:09 [markdfoo]

markdfoo is now known as markd2

18:58:10 [vinod]

* vinod wonders why denshi is going back to school :-)

18:58:14 [davb]

I got it to ease the road to SICP :) it looks pretty good.

18:58:32 [davb]

it is supposed to teach you to think recursively.

18:58:34 [jim]

so are you watching the aduni flicks?

18:59:16 [davb]

I have downloaded the SICP lectures from MIT, but they made my head hurt (thats why I am studying math and got the little schemer)

18:59:30 [denshi]

There's no concept of a "main" function in LISP; any function can be called at any time. How does that compare to an imperative language? In C, if you call some random function at any time, it might crash, b/c certain environment variables, or globals, or some other kind of state condition has not been previously satisfied. OTOH, any fxn call in LISP is contained, so the toplevel is truly interactive.

18:59:34 [jim]

videos??

19:00:17 [davb]

jim: I DL them from aduni.org, but they are not available since they moved.

19:00:59 [davb]

they are Real media format like everything else from there.

19:01:05 [denshi]

This property in LISP is a result of FP. If you look at that for a while, you'll see how that can make debugging and rapid design much easier.

19:01:26 [denshi]

I'm done for now. I can't explain this one too well yet.

19:01:28 [jim]

davb: how many lectures are there?

19:01:45 [denshi]

davb: I read the Little Schemer for the chocolate chip cookie receipe.

19:01:48 [vinod]

thanks denshi - that was quite helpful

19:01:54 [davb]

jim: for SICP, 20 I think... 10 lectures, 2 parts each.

19:02:05 [davb]

* davb will check for the recipe when he gets home

19:02:52 [denshi]

* denshi thinks he has to explain something to different people at least 3 times to learn how to explain it.

19:03:01 [jim]

how much total space do they occupy?

19:03:32 [denshi]

vinod: jess says it's lunchtime. I'll talk school later, as I hope I am not crazy. But lunch first.

19:03:44 [vinod]

teaching is the best way to learn

19:03:50 [denshi]

Later guys.

19:03:57 [jim]

see ya

19:04:00 [vinod]

denshi: sounds good. i promise not to make any psychiatric diagnoses yet

19:04:00 [denshi]

denshi has quit ()

19:04:19 [davb]

vinod: how many CDs is that?

19:04:47 [vinod]

12

19:04:48 [davb]

jim: the entire adUni catalog is like 80GB. This is just one course :)

19:05:00 [jim]

yes, I'm getting the hd

19:05:13 [davb]

jim: just the SICP lectures are probably around 500 mb.

19:05:18 [davb]

jim: cool!

19:05:23 [jim]

about to write the check now in fact

19:08:41 [dead-man-walking]

dead-man-walking is now known as dlk

19:10:28 [hazmat]

interesting thread on the python newsgroup comparing python to ruby.

19:12:18 [talli]

hazmat: can one use TOra to do ER diagrams?

19:12:36 [hazmat]

no, at least not that i know.

19:12:41 [talli]

ok, thanks

19:21:32 [vinod]

hazmat: is this the 'Ruby Impressions' thread?

19:21:38 [davb]

http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-1.html#%_toc_start

19:21:38 [chump]

D: http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-1.html#%_toc_start from davb

19:21:49 [davb]

D:|Teach Yourself Scheme in Fixnum Days

19:21:50 [chump]

titled item D

19:21:57 [davb]

D: looks like a good intro to scheme

19:21:57 [chump]

commented item D

19:22:10 [hazmat]

vinod: yes. i looked through it, not much meat. but its nice reflection of the various styles.

19:28:10 [hazmat]

hazmat is now known as lethedrinker

19:29:13 [vinod]

yeah - i'm wading through the 'english does not come from italian' subplot ;-)

19:29:22 [dario]

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19:29:22 [dlk]

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19:29:23 [dario]

dario is now known as dlk

19:30:13 [talli_]

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19:30:14 [talli]

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19:45:15 [dlk]

dlk is now known as dead-man-walking

20:01:27 [dead-man-walking]

dead-man-walking is now known as dlk

20:01:55 [dlk]

dlk is now known as d

20:02:00 [d]

d is now known as dlk

20:40:18 [talli_]

does anyone know of any other companies besides Redhat and IBM that support Linux on an "enterprise" scale?

20:40:41 [markd2]

SuSE

20:40:53 [markd2]

they're Oracle's reference implementation for 9i

20:41:21 [talli_]

right, looking at them

21:07:51 [dlk]

dlk is now known as dead-man-walking

21:10:12 [davb]

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21:10:13 [vinod]

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21:23:16 [til]

til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))

22:03:18 [k2pts]

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22:04:55 [lethedrinker]

magic

22:05:00 [lethedrinker]

puff

22:05:01 [lethedrinker]

dragon

22:05:07 [lethedrinker]

eats

22:05:09 [lethedrinker]

queries

22:07:45 [talli_]

i once had paul pat my face after singing Puff and say, "it's not about drugs"

22:07:59 [talli_]

* talli_ is away: no reason supplied

22:08:22 [k2pts]

k2pts has left #openacs

22:17:59 [talli_]

* talli_ is away: no reason supplied (away 10 minutes)

22:26:02 [markd2]

* markd2 is not away: no reason to leave

22:27:59 [talli_]

* talli_ is away: no reason supplied (away 20 minutes)

22:33:38 [markd2]

* markd2 is still here (here for more than 30 minutes)

22:33:59 [vinod]

vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-252.s1268.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs

22:37:18 [lethedrinker]

* lethedrinker is here in spirit, but his morals have gone elsewhere

22:37:59 [talli_]

* talli_ is away: no reason supplied (away 30 minutes)

22:38:28 [markd2]

hey vinod

22:38:36 [markd2]

beat up on talli_ for spamming the (otherwise quiet) channel

22:38:58 [vinod]

* vinod pounds talli_ until the _ falls off his name

22:39:56 [markd2]

I didn't know there was any marketing left to can

22:42:45 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

22:42:54 [denshi]

* denshi roars

22:43:55 [lethedrinker]

* lethedrinker reminds that the best policy is to carry a big stick.

22:44:27 [vinod]

* vinod steals lethedrinker's stick to pound talli some more

22:44:46 [denshi]

I

22:45:03 [denshi]

I'm just browsing around, wasting time on a monday.

22:45:50 [denshi]

I wish aD would post more stuff about their latest boneheaded manuvers. They have a bboard, why can't they entertain me?

22:46:17 [lethedrinker]

thats a greek tragedy not a comedy, imo.

22:46:20 [talli_]

* talli_ is no longer away

22:46:23 [denshi]

ooh... badger blog

22:46:24 [talli_]

sorry

22:46:33 [markd2]

heh

22:46:40 [docwolf]

double-heh

22:46:42 [denshi]

hah! mark is playing baldur's gate.

22:46:42 [vinod]

don't let markd2 see you... he's got fire in his eyes

22:46:48 [docwolf]

(docwolf resists urge to comment)

22:47:03 [denshi]

markd -- petrify vision?

22:47:29 [talli_]

docwolf: you don't have anything to say about aD, do you?

22:47:43 [markd2]

yep. playing baldur's gate

22:47:44 [markd2]

I love it

22:48:04 [denshi]

is docwolf not commenting on aD or markd2's eyes?

22:48:10 [lethedrinker]

in read about a community liason job at the new acs site @ museatech.

22:48:17 [lethedrinker]

s/in/i

22:48:29 [vinod]

haha

22:48:39 [docwolf]

docwolf's lips are hermetically sealed.

22:48:39 [markd2]

you should use rzolf for the community liason

22:48:40 [talli_]

lethedrinker: you interested? a bridge and a piece of the desert comes with the job too

22:49:00 [talli_]

it's a pretty sweet gig

22:49:02 [lethedrinker]

only if the bridge is in brooklyn

22:49:26 [lethedrinker]

can i telecommute ?

22:49:26 [talli_]

sorry. it's in hahvahd yahd

22:50:06 [lethedrinker]

whats the url for the museatech openacs site?

22:50:31 [lethedrinker]

got it

22:51:46 [docwolf]

whoa. totally random stuff on the aD bboards. haven't been there in a while.

22:51:52 [markd2]

anything good?

22:51:55 [markd2]

i've unsubscribed from 'em

22:52:01 [denshi]

markd2: have you stopped worrying and learned to love the Minsc?

22:52:10 [markd2]

It's Boo!

22:52:21 [docwolf]

just like lots of long names of people from foreign countries with huge error logs from java.

22:52:22 [markd2]

this time around, I had a full party of better characters, so I've ignored Minsc

22:52:45 [docwolf]

with an occasional richard li or david eison comment

22:53:08 [talli_]

docwolf: please summarize the richard li or david eison comments.

22:53:16 [talli_]

i hope they are the usual ones

22:53:27 [talli_]

"we are bitter bastards that know more than you..."

22:53:30 [vinod]

"stop asking us questions on our bboards"

22:53:37 [denshi]

In BG2, Minsc is cooler -- more Boo-based dialog, better stats, etc. I hacked him into a monk anyway.

22:53:49 [markd2]

heh

22:54:01 [markd2]

put the girdle of gender-bending on him for the complete outfit

22:54:22 [docwolf]

http://eison.arsdigita.com/corvette/

22:54:22 [chump]

E: http://eison.arsdigita.com/corvette/ from docwolf

22:54:28 [docwolf]

sorry, chump

22:54:31 [denshi]

there are some actual results from that in BG2 -- there's a gender bender subquest with Edwin.

22:54:35 [docwolf]

no bot should be exposed to this kind of material.

22:55:16 [talli_]

i think it's fine if chump logs that. but i think you might want to put a sticker of eison's frat on chump just in case.

22:55:17 [denshi]

we're forcing the bots to evolve.

22:55:22 [docwolf]

http://aure.com/aureNdave/

22:55:23 [chump]

F: http://aure.com/aureNdave/ from docwolf

22:56:15 [vinod]

* vinod stops his plans to make a webpage about his subaru

22:56:26 [markd2]

* markd2 needs to get a pinto

22:56:58 [talli_]

* talli_ is bummed that vinod chose not to follow the kiss tour in his subaru and chronicle the hijinx

22:56:59 [docwolf]

haha

22:57:04 [docwolf]

http://www.wolfwater.com/ct/sh/shuttle.htm

22:57:04 [chump]

G: http://www.wolfwater.com/ct/sh/shuttle.htm from docwolf

22:57:13 [docwolf]

the docwolf subaru page

22:57:44 [docwolf]

i really need to make up a totally sketchy "Me and my car" site

22:58:08 [talli_]

that'll get the chicks

22:58:23 [vinod]

docwolf has a subaru too?!

22:58:45 [docwolf]

the Mighty Sube (tm)

22:58:59 [vinod]

haha - haven't named mine yet

23:00:06 [markd2]

is that your picture there, doc?

23:00:24 [docwolf]

heh. aren't i suave?

23:01:30 [vinod]

If overdone, you can slip into an abyss, known as the "C.C. Deville Stage of Sudden Retirement". This occurs in young people when they are abruptly stripped of the adrenaline rush and stress that work provides, and have no clue what to do with themselves. Symptoms include weight gain of 100 pounds or more, deep depression, and a strange belief that you are somehow still relevant to the rest of the world.

23:02:11 [vinod]

i think you've diagnosed me

23:02:16 [docwolf]

haha

23:02:31 [vinod]

is there gonna be a infomercial that sells the cure?

23:02:54 [docwolf]

rzolf is here building me an e-commerce site just for that purpose.

23:03:08 [markd2]

I thought it was to sell your "powerDrink"

23:03:16 [vinod]

haha

23:03:39 [docwolf]

WolfJuice

23:04:54 [markd2]

sounds like you're Philip's ghostwriter

23:05:03 [denshi]

markd2: I am apparently either Pacman or the Ghosts.

23:05:18 [markd2]

wokka wokka wooka

23:05:19 [markd2]

wookie

23:05:33 [markd2]

Chew'bacca, 'bacca Khan, 'bacca Khan

23:05:38 [lethedrinker]

markd2: aren't there java bindings to cocoa?

23:05:47 [markd2]

yeah, but they're pretty nasty from what I hear

23:06:13 [lethedrinker]

i would like to see someone do a greek play about aD's history.

23:07:27 [talli_]

lethedrinker: aD's history may perhaps be good for a greek play, but it's by no means shakespearean

23:07:40 [markd2]

I think Beckett might be more apropos

23:07:54 [talli_]

or mamet

23:08:13 [docwolf]

actually, i think of it more as a bad jerry bruckheimer film.

23:08:19 [talli_]

perhaps even warhol, just to go totally post-modern

23:08:26 [talli_]

whoops. i think docwolf's got it right

23:08:42 [markd2]

mad Max, beyond chunderdome

23:08:44 [talli_]

a jerry bruckheimer film starring all of the wayans bros

23:08:53 [vinod]

lol

23:09:00 [denshi]

"Its amazing how many people get out of the way when they see a giant mollusc flying towards them at 25mph."

23:10:32 [docwolf]

man. sounds like more fun at aD today.

23:10:42 [talli_]

where???? give it up!

23:13:37 [lethedrinker]

i really don't understand what separates ad currently from every other company out there with a java product to sell.

23:14:12 [markd2]

* markd2 hands lethedrinker a prize

23:14:25 [denshi]

docwolf: what now?

23:15:11 [docwolf]

denshi: just more churn. at this point, to me anyway, they are "just another shitty tech company in boston." none of the original people are left.

23:15:40 [docwolf]

ok, not totally true. there is 1 person left there that I care about.

23:15:44 [docwolf]

the rest.. well.. ugh.

23:15:52 [markd2]

heh

23:15:53 [lethedrinker]

* lethedrinker relegates the prize to aD rechristened as the visonless awards.

23:16:45 [denshi]

docwolf: you should hire a Gibson-esque corp slave 'extraction' team to get that person out of there.

23:16:50 [denshi]

Then you can nuke the site from orbit.

23:16:54 [denshi]

It's the only way to be sure.

23:17:02 [docwolf]

haha

23:17:05 [markd2]

time to blow Chunks out of that place.

23:17:29 [docwolf]

it's so sad.

23:18:22 [markd2]

motley crüde

23:18:52 [denshi]

it is sad.

23:19:19 [talli_]

* talli_ is surprised that IRC has a crude mode setting. figures he must have it set for on by default

23:19:37 [lethedrinker]

talli windows does that for you ;-)

23:19:47 [talli_]

:)

23:23:41 [denshi]

is vinod still here?

23:23:58 [vinod]

yup - trying to think of a crude joke

23:26:20 [denshi]

have you found the crudeness?

23:27:17 [vinod]

nope - i'm giving up. noone can match markd2 for crudeness anyway (sorry talli)

23:27:19 [talli_]

vinod, how about the crude joke of you being licensed to save people's lives?

23:27:38 [vinod]

once again, i was mistaken - talli wins

23:27:42 [talli_]

is that one over the top? sorry

23:27:46 [docwolf]

low blow

23:27:57 [talli_]

hey docwolf, you went to med school too...

23:28:03 [vinod]

* vinod wipes the tears from his eyes and adds another name to his bully-book

23:28:18 [docwolf]

i keep rolf well sedated, which has to count for something

23:28:22 [vinod]

oh wait - talli is already in there

23:28:29 [vinod]

haha

23:28:42 [markd2]

and just when things get interesting

23:28:46 [markd2]

gotta run. l8r

23:28:47 [markd2]

markd2 has quit ("Bork")

23:29:57 [denshi]

so is school crazy?

23:30:28 [talli_]

denshi: certainly so. answer must be yes. totally

23:30:40 [talli_]

btw, what are you talking about?

23:30:40 [vinod]

nah - undergrad was the best time of my life. but i think i'd have trouble going back to any kind of school again

23:31:16 [talli_]

school sucks.

23:31:18 [denshi]

porque?

23:31:22 [docwolf]

undergrad was fun. rolf and i are thinking of taking basket weaving.

23:32:58 [denshi]

vinod? reasons?

23:37:21 [vinod_]

vinod_ (~vinod@216-164-246-4.s2099.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs

23:38:00 [vinod_]

damn dialup

23:40:39 [vinod_]

denshi: a lot of undergrad is wading through reams of stuff that you hope will be helpful in the future

23:40:40 [vinod_]

vinod_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))

23:41:03 [lethedrinker]

so why is post nuke cool?

23:41:04 [vinod_]

vinod_ (~vinod@207-172-102-18.s272.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs

23:41:11 [denshi]

apparently vinod's dialup terms of service forbid him from bashing it.

23:41:40 [vinod_]

this time the phone rang and it was one of those automated spam services!

23:42:03 [vinod_]

in case my isp is watching "i love dialup!!!" *force smile*

23:42:15 [vinod_]

denshi: a lot of undergrad is wading through reams of stuff that you hope will be helpful in the future

23:42:50 [vinod_]

and after doing that in undergrad and medschool and realizing that most of it isn't all that helpful, i don't think i'd be able to tolerate it again

23:42:59 [denshi]

vinod: you can disable call-waiting on your modem. So you won't get interrupted.

23:43:30 [vinod_]

yeah, but i rarely get calls on my landline. plus it makes for a good excuse when talli starts talkin

23:44:03 [lethedrinker]

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23:45:35 [denshi]

I can handle the wading through stuff. Work is like that all the time.

23:46:31 [docwolf]

denshi: i disagree with vinod in one respect: undergrad was fun _because_ of all the useless garbage.

23:47:09 [denshi]

I found college hilarious after I went back the first time. On the first day, they *give* you a list of everything that's going to happen for the next 5 months. No reorganizations, no evil bosses, no suprise clients, etc, etc. I felt like I was let in on some kind of secret.

23:47:28 [vinod_]

that's true. i was talking more about learning which carbon atoms on the kreb cycle changes in each step

23:47:37 [denshi]

after that, I can't understand students who can't schedule.

23:47:42 [docwolf]

right. i agree with vinod there.

23:47:59 [docwolf]

for people who go into medicine, all of college seems like one large "vocational school" rat-race

23:48:10 [docwolf]

(taking useless courses b/c you have to..)

23:48:25 [vinod_]

denshi: i liked that part about college, too

23:48:33 [talli_]

that's pretty much what engineering school is about as well.

23:48:34 [docwolf]

but i really dug taking classes that had nothing to do with 'employment'.

23:48:45 [vinod]

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23:48:46 [docwolf]

like comparative literature, etc..

23:48:50 [vinod_]

yeah - my favorite class was african storytelling

23:48:54 [talli_]

after grad, i realized that the discipline was more important than the subject

23:49:09 [vinod_]

learning how to learn

23:49:51 [denshi]

I think lib arts is validated b/c of the one or two really fantastic professors you find in several years. They open up whole new realms of questions.

23:50:36 [docwolf]

right. but these days "the humanities" have become really weak.

23:50:39 [talli_]

denshi: what year in undergrad are you in?

23:50:49 [talli_]

docwolf: i kinda disagree with you there.

23:50:58 [talli_]

rather, that's a very ambiguous statement

23:51:14 [denshi]

then they fail you, just to take their hideous price. Never work with the undead, my grandfather always said. He was a cyborg, you know. He faced terrible cyborg persecution back in nineteen dickety-two, as that was the style of the time....

23:51:53 [talli_]

docwolf: if by weak you mean diluted, that may be valid

23:52:10 [talli_]

but there's still alot of good scholarship out there, and the same books are still available...

23:52:45 [denshi]

talli: 30 credit hours to go.

23:53:05 [talli_]

how many times have you gone and come back?

23:53:09 [vinod_]

denshi: ahh - you're almost done

23:53:56 [denshi]

started at 15, left at 18 to work, back at 20, out at 21 to work, back at 23.

23:54:08 [talli_]

uhmm... started at 15?

23:54:11 [denshi]

* denshi has leveled up.

23:54:17 [vinod_]

denshi: geez - you're just a kid, too ;-)

23:54:20 [talli_]

is that what people do in texas?

23:54:28 [denshi]

yup. You heard it here first -- I'm as wierd as they come.

23:54:44 [talli_]

so you're a smarty pants, huh?

23:54:47 [talli_]

not bad.

23:55:42 [talli_]

you should go and speak with aaronsw. you can hang out in treehouses and plot the demise of western civilazation's education system :)

23:55:58 [talli_]

(just kidding)

23:55:59 [denshi]

talli: in a word, no. But there's a wierd little school adjunct to a major university that accepts 400 students in the middle of high school, sticks them on campus, tells them to survive for two years as college students, and gives them two diplomas afterwards. The student burn rate is pretty. :)

23:56:22 [jim]

pretty burn?

23:56:54 [jim]

umm, north tx state?

23:57:06 [denshi]

UNT.

23:57:19 [jim]

ahh

23:57:24 [talli_]

denshi: so you have a high school diploma by now, or just the equivalent?

23:57:25 [jim]

phenom music dept

23:57:54 [jim]

Gary Willis and Steve Morse came outta there

23:57:55 [denshi]

uhh... that school is accredited to give high school diplomas, so I have one of those. Then I went to UT Austin.

23:58:03 [talli_]

ah, cool

23:58:06 [denshi]

jim: so did the Eagles.

23:58:40 [jim]

Joe Walsh was in that

23:59:37 [jim]

the Eagles went to north Texas state?