00:03:00 vinod (~vinod@18.61.1.60) has joined #openacs 00:21:22 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 00:26:41 talli has left #openacs 00:32:02 ping 00:46:46 hi hazmat 00:46:57 hi vinod, hows it going? 00:48:19 good. working tonight but it's been slow so far 00:48:41 i know that feeling... 00:49:03 the work is tedious or the mind not in it? 00:50:08 no - i'm seeing patients today, but there aren't too many scheduled 00:50:27 altho i've been having the 'mind not in it' problem a lot lately 00:50:39 with the programming stuff 00:54:39 its been happening to me alot lately as well, but i think its cause i have other stuff on my mind... just takes one good idea and a little midnight oil to get the fingers flying on the keyboard for me, but the ideas just don't seem as inspiring at the moment. i think a vacation is probably in order. 00:59:12 vacation is always a good idea. i've noticed that i have up and down cycles which are somewhat independent of what i'm working on. so i try to fight through em knowing i'll pick up soon :-) 01:06:01 good policy. 01:06:20 do you read joelonsoftware.com? 01:07:49 he wrote a piece about productivity recently that i really identified with 01:47:25 davb (dave@alb-24-58-160-135.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 01:53:05 vinod: I think everyone is identifying with that joelonsoftware piece. 01:59:49 you're right. i love the way he writes 02:01:08 he can really crystallize complex stuff into "wow, why didn't i think of it that way" sensations 02:01:21 right. 02:02:41 I really think I should get one of those Imacs. Its way faster than the machine I have now. All I need is photoshop :) 02:04:16 yeah, i think i will eventually get one. but i'm gonna wait until it's been through some user-use. apple's record on their first run isn't always great 02:07:42 ah. good idea. 02:21:09 phew, these are really good markers ! 02:21:27 has anyone ever been to tanglewood? 02:29:40 vinod: have you looked at those lectures yet? 02:32:52 i watched the first one and i'm hoping to get through the second one tomorrow 02:33:13 i've been meaning to go to tanglewood, but i never made it out there 02:34:30 have you started watching the lectures yet? 02:37:00 Ok. Rbm had a problem with one of them, that is why I was wondering. I think it was 1a. 02:37:18 Darn. I need to draw it and all I have is a couple of really crappy gifs 02:38:27 oh well:) 02:39:16 wow, i forgot that you had artistic talent. i couldn't draw tanglewood if my life depended on it 02:40:00 Sure you could. Drawing is just really a different want of seeing. 02:40:31 s/want/way 02:42:57 i can see pretty well.. it's just getting my eyes to communicate with my hands. my brain seems to mess up the signals in translation 02:43:00 :-) 02:45:52 heh 02:49:49 I am getting kinda tired of this project again and its only been about 40 mins... 02:49:58 :) 02:56:57 is this the non-paying project? 02:59:11 yeah. I am meeting with him tomorrow. Basically my plan is this. He needs ot hire a real illustrator :) I will do OpenACS 4 programming for him until the project gets off the ground. 02:59:20 at least enough for a demo of a basic web site. 02:59:55 in exchange for a cash payment when/if he gets some investors :) 03:00:04 that sounds more than reasonable 03:00:24 unfortunately the 'when' usually turns into an 'if' :-) 03:03:12 anyone got a link for the joelonsoftware article? 03:03:54 i think it should still be at the top of the front page 03:03:54 http://www.badgertronics.com/blog 03:04:04 :) its blogged on markd2's page also 03:04:27 http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000339.html 03:04:39 cool, thanks. 03:05:23 it's here too ;-) http://www.thedesignexperience.org/ 03:05:46 ah, forgot about that 03:29:51 its late. I must depart. 03:29:57 davb has quit () 03:45:54 rzolf (~rolf@adsl-21-208-25.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 03:46:34 hi vinod. 03:46:37 rzolf has quit (Client Quit) 04:26:52 talli (talli@talli.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 04:26:58 talli has quit (Remote closed the connection) 04:30:47 Damn 04:30:50 * Psychephylax pokes vinod 04:57:33 ouch 05:03:06 vinod has quit ("changing universes") 06:56:59 dlk (dlk@garrison.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs 07:26:16 til (~tils@62.116.25.202) has joined #openacs 07:59:55 jim (~jim@12-233-187-5.client.attbi.com) has joined #openacs 08:00:07 re 08:22:59 chump has quit (adams.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 10:47:03 djg (~dirk@pD9E10F6E.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openacs 10:56:43 dlk is now known as dlk-food 11:04:17 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 11:11:13 dlk-food is now known as dlk 13:30:43 vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-89.s1105.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 13:34:34 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 13:36:48 Good morning (or other appropriate time-related greeting :) 13:37:58 hi davb! 13:43:37 oops, I have to get chump... 13:43:58 chump (~chump@alb-24-58-160-41.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 13:48:07 Someone is using Radio Userland to monitor my weblog and the chump log. 13:50:54 :) 13:51:00 not me... i use mozilla :-) 13:52:15 altho mozilla is really pissin me off. it's crashed twice this am 14:05:31 oh no. 14:05:36 0.9.7 ? 14:05:43 send in a report :) 14:05:51 dlk has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:06:32 mozilla is cool if you ask me 14:06:37 pretty stable... 14:06:47 it's the browser i use by far most 14:12:50 brrrrr 14:12:52 Too cold 14:13:32 Bronxiephylax is now known as Workiephylax 14:14:15 djg: yeah, i agree. it's been really stable until this morning. maybe i should stop visiting these *objectionable* sites ;-) 14:16:54 haha, no popup xxx sites! ;) 14:17:07 i usually work with the nightly build and i find them pretty ok 14:19:32 i'm using 0.9.7. going to http://my.fool.com (financial site) reliably crashes it. haven't investigated more than that 14:20:13 wow...fool is still around? they use windows...maybe it's a fending-off feature of IIS: no mozilla?! ;) 14:20:42 haha 14:21:24 what is fool advocating these days? 14:21:36 still aol, excite, yahoo, amazon, ebay? 14:21:55 i used to read their newsletters...but apparently they have stopped them. and on fc i read a bit of nasty news 14:22:59 i think they're getting more conservative, but i like to read some of the bboards on mechanical investing 14:23:29 i'm still getting bombarded by their newsletters 14:23:46 oh, i have to recheck then. some of their writers were pretty witty. 14:23:53 they fired my favorite fool - TMF Cheeze (he was from wisconsin) :-) 14:24:07 i dont recall the nicks. 14:25:08 here's the error: 14:25:10 Gdk-ERROR **: BadShmSeg (invalid shared segment parameter) 14:25:10 serial 31 error_code 175 request_code 146 minor_code 2 14:25:13 but there was one guy who wrote pretty cool articles on promising startup companies...pretty in-depth, not only like...hot stuff 14:26:04 yeah - i really thought that some of the writing was very good. less rah-rah than most sites 14:27:06 yup crashed on me too 14:27:42 what a stupid test of me :-D 14:27:56 if a site crashes mozilla, i try netscape 14:28:46 i appreciate knowing that i'm not completely crazy ;-) 14:29:39 now it works tho 14:29:50 it had no cookie set on my harddisk... 14:30:09 restarted mozilla, went back to my.fool.com, logged in again, and now it has not yet crashed. 14:30:13 lemme snoop around 14:31:15 okay, i am not subscribed to any newsletters...no wonder that i am receiving nothing 14:31:49 ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs 14:32:04 hello. 14:32:36 howdy 14:33:09 hi ola! 14:35:05 hi ola 14:35:16 hi guys! 14:40:11 davb has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:45:56 are you all postgres guys? 14:47:37 got a question about it 14:50:51 not sure if i'm a postgres guy, but i can try ;-) 14:53:03 djg: vinod IS an oracle! 14:54:06 i had lunch with a sapdb guy yesterday 14:54:15 (i worked there for a while and he's a good friend) 14:54:28 and he was interested in the _disadvantages_ of postgres 14:56:05 hmmm... i won't be able to help much. don't know too much about db internals, etc. 14:56:39 what about daily life annoyances? 14:57:44 i really haven't noticed much. if anything, it's just issues that i come across with porting oracle-isms to the more standard postgres 14:58:10 but i haven't run any big sites, where dbs like oracle and sap may have significant advantages 14:58:52 in terms of administration for a non-dba, postgres is a dream 14:59:04 haha, unlike oracle 14:59:20 stability? 14:59:24 some people say the error messages aren't verbose enough, compared to oracle. (I would certainly be having trouble reading them even it they spitted out more :-) 14:59:40 ola: that's a good point 14:59:49 what is a typical errmsg? 15:00:30 sql error msgs are pretty good. pl/pgsql error msgs are sometimes cryptic: 15:00:41 PARSE ERROR at ';' 15:00:45 or something like that. 15:01:18 it will say that the error was in function foo(), but in reality, it could be in a function called from foo (or further steps in) 15:01:40 so, you have to manually trace back and forward to find the culprit 15:01:45 okay, do you learn to get your way around this? 15:02:24 kinda. whenever i run into an error message, i copy the function into a new file and manually load it into psql... 15:02:39 then i add debug statements to figure out where the error happens. 15:03:01 if necessary, i load the called functions source into that file, and work my way to where the error msg is 15:03:10 it's usually not difficult, just tedious] 15:03:20 tora is supposed to run with postgres soonish 15:03:24 this brings up another problem in pg though 15:03:42 it doesn't have 'create or replace' syntax (yet?) 15:03:59 uh, that is nice about oracle 15:04:19 so, when you're debugging and you're dropping and recreating a function, functions that rely on that function will throw errors 15:04:25 definitely 15:04:48 but i think it might be there in 7.2 (not sure about that) 15:04:59 pg_dump still has some problems... 15:05:30 whata is pg_dump? the backup util? 15:05:56 yes. for online dumps. 15:06:29 hmm, unstable backup software kind of sucks 15:07:06 but all those things are not all that bad. how many ppl work on postgres? 15:08:22 I don't think it can be regarded as unstable but you must edit the dump file manually (or something like that) 15:12:01 i think there are about 20 core developers (although there may be more since red hat got involved) 15:13:16 here's some slashdot talk about sapdb & postgres: http://slashdot.org/developers/01/04/28/016220.shtml (take with pounds of salt) 15:14:03 don baccus chimed in: 15:14:04 Sap DB has many features and administrative tools still lacking in PostgreSQL. 15:14:05 Try real archiving and replication, for instance. Being able to specify where to allocate tables and indices without using "ln -s". An overwriting storage manager so you don't need to VACUUM nightly (or hourly as some do on very busy systems). 15:14:05 That just scratches the surface. 15:14:05 Yes, PG is vastly improved and I'm a big fan. And much of the above list is scheduled for PG 7.2. But today it's PG 7.1 and PG doesn't have these features. 15:16:01 i'll forward it to my friend. he is more interested than i am 15:28:08 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 15:31:51 does OpenACS 3.2.5 or AOLserver roll the access logs automatically? 15:34:23 aolserver does 15:34:35 aha. 15:34:37 Ok. 15:34:42 vinod: u sure? 15:35:01 we used to use another instance of aolserver...that did the rollover 15:35:07 not 100% 15:35:15 lemme check my server 15:35:46 yup, it rolls the access logs. it doesn't roll the error log (i use logrotate for that) 15:35:54 aha here are the params: 15:35:55 ns_param MaxBackup "5" 15:35:55 ns_param RollDay "*" 15:35:55 ns_param RollFmt "%Y-%m-%d-%H:%M" 15:35:55 ns_param RollHour "0" 15:35:55 ns_param RollOnSignal "On" 15:35:57 ns_param RollLog "On" 15:36:13 Ok. I need to figure out how to get this to work with webalizer. 15:36:53 I am running a scheduled proc to analyze the logs every day. 15:37:32 note the RollFmt parameter signifies the filename, not the format of the log itself (each file will be named openacs4.log.2002-01-09-00:00 15:38:06 there is a parameter to set the format of the log, but it defaults the the standard format which should be webalizer compatible 15:38:10 (I think) 15:40:16 right. 15:40:16 I have 5 days work in the log directory. 15:40:16 I could just run webalizer before 12:00, but I don't want to lose data. 15:40:16 I think I need a way to keep track of which logs were already processed. 15:40:16 or at least the last one. 15:40:16 I was using reporte, but analog keeps crashing. 15:40:16 webalizer is much nicer anyway. 15:40:17 vinod: each time it rolls the log, it puts the time/date at the end of the filename. 15:42:58 yeah, i used reporte a while ago. but you're right that webalizer is a lot nicer than analog in any case 15:43:26 webalizer does all the history, etc itself. Webalizer does 99% of what reporte does. all you have to do is feed it a log file and it takes care of the rest. 15:43:35 i think reporte gzip'd the log once it processed it and then only looked for unzipped, rolled log files 15:44:00 actually it is looking for the report with server.log.todaysdate 15:44:06 ahh 15:44:08 (i am looking at the code)) 15:44:25 beats my fading memory any day :-) 15:44:31 I think I just need an nsv. I'll put the last processed file name in there. then compare the highest dated file name. 15:45:16 was it aD policy to use the most difficult to configure software? i.e. analog, qmail, etc... :) 15:45:35 oracle 15:46:56 aha 15:47:09 is there a tcl command to get a list of all files in a directory? 15:48:02 file glob 15:48:21 or actually just glob 15:50:04 I think I will make this into a 4.x package so you can just install it and it will run the reports when you say and stuff them in a directory of your choice. 15:50:19 Most people logs are not so big that the processing is going to slow down the server. 15:50:42 cool! 15:51:08 i can't believe davb is volunteering for work in #openacs. hasn't he learned his lesson yet ;-) 15:51:23 well I am going to need it anyway :) 15:56:18 is there an easy way to get the most recent date from a list. So if I grab a list of all the log files, how do I tell which is the latest one? 15:58:05 lsort 15:58:06 thanks 15:58:59 this 'talkin to yourself' thing is contagious :-) 16:00:18 heh 16:05:36 davb: you done with clickthrough? 16:06:47 ola: i was :) 16:06:55 a long while back. It was even tested. 16:07:01 probabl;y needs some features added though, 16:09:57 where do you view the recorded clickthroughs? admin/? 16:10:20 sounds good :) 16:10:37 clickthrough_mount_dir/admin/ I think 16:14:47 ok. is it scheduled to update the entries hourly or something? 'cuz I didn't see anything there last I tried (I haven't got a system installed now...) 16:16:34 (I did both local and "remote" CTs) 16:20:31 I think it does it every 10 mins. 16:20:41 Did you create links using the CT procs? 16:22:17 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.140.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 16:24:43 nope. something like: /ct/?send_to=http://openacs.org/ - but possibly I didn't wait 10 minutes. 16:27:49 ok. I am not sure now how the procs work :) 16:28:05 It only records clickthrough to external links I think. 16:33:13 davb: I'm sure it works. I just didn't pay it enough attention, I guess... 16:34:55 don't worry about it. I can't remember how it works :) 16:46:38 rbm (rmello@fslc.ser.usu.edu) has joined #openacs 16:46:47 I hate being disconnected 16:46:55 Oh, morning everyone :) 16:47:58 hi 16:48:03 hey mark 16:48:07 hi rbm 16:48:11 davb! 16:48:31 I got my SCSI burner on monday. Worked excellently. 16:48:36 http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,49537,00.html 16:48:36 A: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,49537,00.html from davb 16:48:40 rbm: great! 16:48:51 A:|Charities Say No to Obsolete Crap 16:48:51 titled item A 16:49:04 A: non-profits can't use old PCs with no software 16:49:05 commented item A 16:49:18 * rbm reads /. and sighs 16:49:19 A: someone has to intecept these and install some free software on them 16:49:19 commented item A 16:49:31 What's the MySQL dolphin got to do with Linux? 16:50:04 slashdot is a wasteland. all the good links they are late on. 16:50:39 * davb apologized for the poor grammer 16:51:37 ack I screwed that up too! 16:51:38 :) 16:52:33 docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-21-208-25.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs 16:54:01 the doctor is in the house 16:54:21 yo yo yo 16:55:05 how's it going? 16:55:47 we are feverishly working on python stuff 16:56:33 we heard you were trying to poison rzolf with some "health" drink ;-) 16:56:39 hehe 16:56:43 arsenic 16:56:49 gets 'em every time. 16:56:58 haha 16:57:49 we're trying to decide if we should release some of this stuf 16:57:52 stuff to the community 16:59:12 well, my reflex answer would always be "yes!" 16:59:26 hehe 16:59:30 * markd2 gets out his rubber hammer 16:59:34 i guess we'll see how useful it is... 16:59:55 you should release it, talk about building a community, then ignore the folks who use it 17:00:05 it's going to have to be under the python "steal this and we can't do anything about it" license 17:00:10 haha 17:00:13 check the adpl first, they might have a patent on doing that 17:00:17 hehe 17:00:18 if you play your cards right docwolf, you can get megabucks out of the whole thing 17:00:29 i just have to lure some unsuspecting VC fund 17:00:35 then become a totally irrational pain in the ass. 17:00:44 become? 17:00:49 hehe 17:00:51 ouch 17:01:01 ;-) 17:01:10 it's the florida water. it makes me nutty. 17:02:32 what's the deal with aure on the ex-ad group? 17:02:55 I think he's just trying to keep folks from taking that article posted too seriously 17:03:10 I'm surprised he didn't express it in javascript, though 17:03:12 hehe.. but it looks like he actually put "thought" into his post 17:03:19 like, he was seriously pondering this crap-ola 17:03:51 yeah... the nerve huh? 17:04:00 * vinod pretends he knows what he's talkin about 17:04:09 hehe 17:04:28 maybe he has too much time on my hands 17:04:34 unlike me, who has no time to chat on IRC 17:07:38 what's the deal with aure? 17:08:04 * rbm installs a virus on docwolf's machine, so that all ex-ad messages are posted to usenet 17:09:51 someone posted a link to the "businesses suing and winning against disgruntled employees" article 17:10:19 but the article was full of folks who did things like "post 10,000 messages to usenet" or "unleashed cows in the corporate office" 17:10:41 aure posted a well-reasoned "if what you're saying is true, it's ok" reply 17:10:48 which is pretty much out of charcter for the entire list 17:10:54 which is usually filled with bitterness and vitrol 17:13:08 heheh 17:14:16 til (~tils@62.116.25.202) has joined #openacs 17:14:25 bbl 17:16:13 davb has quit () 17:22:12 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 17:23:27 davb has quit (Client Quit) 17:35:25 Fe 17:39:44 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 17:41:49 yo yo 17:42:52 vinod has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:43:36 one down, 10 to go 17:44:01 heh 17:47:24 what's up with this aure stuff in today's chatlog? 17:47:43 what's docwolf working on ATM? 17:48:06 is markd2 still holding his rubber hammer? 17:48:11 yeah 17:48:14 makes it hard to type, though 17:51:28 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 17:51:59 quick, mark, hit him! 17:52:56 ack 17:53:35 * markd2 weilds his rubber hammer of reflexology 17:53:40 wields it too 17:56:42 you can't weld rubber! 17:56:56 heh 17:57:13 rubber cement will bond two latex surfaces together as if they were one 18:05:18 talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 18:08:46 talli has left #openacs 18:10:51 * markd2 whacks� talli with a rubber hammer 18:10:54 dang. too late 18:20:10 vinod (~vinod@207-172-216-231.s739.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 18:20:22 hi vinod 18:20:32 hey davb 18:21:03 * denshi pokes vinod 18:21:54 * vinod PEEKs denshi 18:23:46 sorry, that's the extent of my apple ][ assembly knowledge (PEEK, POKE) 18:23:52 heh 18:23:55 CALL -151 18:24:51 what did that do again? restart? 18:25:06 I think that drops you into the monitor 18:25:11 CALL -936 clears the screen 18:25:15 oh yeah 18:26:53 * denshi catches an unhandled exception and crashes 18:26:59 haha 18:27:16 doesn't the PEEK/POKE instruction pair go way back? 18:27:32 like pre-Sutherland? 18:27:42 probably, but my meager programming life started on the apple 18:28:11 I never saw this before: in a job for a sysasdmin: requires sitting for long periods of time :) 18:28:18 most every BASIC had peek/poke in some form 18:29:48 davb: doesn't that conflict with 'must wear hiking boots in case a mountain appears in the machine room'? 18:30:04 heh 18:30:12 WTF? "Visual Basic, XML, SQL, ODBC IN Unix/Linux environment" 18:31:37 buzzword soup 18:31:58 aha 18:32:20 I found out Fleet Bank uses IIS, move your money :) 18:32:50 why, did it offer you a choice of popular passwords when you logged on? 18:33:13 heh. no just they are hiring and you need IIS. 18:33:21 ahhh 18:33:25 Fleet bank .... Fleet enama. coincidence? 18:33:39 * davb doesn't want to know. 18:33:42 they gotta get your money out somehow 18:35:35 til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 18:36:33 djg has quit ("[BX] Tiger Woods uses BitchX. FORE!") 19:30:25 davb has quit () 19:32:13 ola has quit ("changing universes") 19:46:35 davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 19:51:57 denshi has quit () 20:12:01 anyone user qmailanalog? 20:12:57 nm 20:29:30 talli (talli@talli.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs 20:29:46 hi talli 20:30:23 hey davb 20:33:08 markd2 has quit ("Bork") 20:43:47 docwolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:51:56 denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs 20:52:32 wb denshi. BTW thanks for nsruby. That is on my list of langauges to learn :) 20:52:48 thanks 20:53:24 hey denshi 20:53:30 i got your email, thanks alot 20:53:34 np 20:53:38 i haven't had a chance to respond 20:54:09 but let me find you those psets... 20:56:25