IRC log of openacs on 2002-01-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:00 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@18.61.1.60) has joined #openacs
00:21:22 [talli]
talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
00:26:41 [talli]
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00:32:02 [hazmat]
ping
00:46:46 [vinod]
hi hazmat
00:46:57 [hazmat]
hi vinod, hows it going?
00:48:19 [vinod]
good. working tonight but it's been slow so far
00:48:41 [hazmat]
i know that feeling...
00:49:03 [hazmat]
the work is tedious or the mind not in it?
00:50:08 [vinod]
no - i'm seeing patients today, but there aren't too many scheduled
00:50:27 [vinod]
altho i've been having the 'mind not in it' problem a lot lately
00:50:39 [vinod]
with the programming stuff
00:54:39 [hazmat]
its been happening to me alot lately as well, but i think its cause i have other stuff on my mind... just takes one good idea and a little midnight oil to get the fingers flying on the keyboard for me, but the ideas just don't seem as inspiring at the moment. i think a vacation is probably in order.
00:59:12 [vinod]
vacation is always a good idea. i've noticed that i have up and down cycles which are somewhat independent of what i'm working on. so i try to fight through em knowing i'll pick up soon :-)
01:06:01 [hazmat]
good policy.
01:06:20 [vinod]
do you read joelonsoftware.com?
01:07:49 [vinod]
he wrote a piece about productivity recently that i really identified with
01:47:25 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-24-58-160-135.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
01:53:05 [davb]
vinod: I think everyone is identifying with that joelonsoftware piece.
01:59:49 [vinod]
you're right. i love the way he writes
02:01:08 [vinod]
he can really crystallize complex stuff into "wow, why didn't i think of it that way" sensations
02:01:21 [davb]
right.
02:02:41 [davb]
I really think I should get one of those Imacs. Its way faster than the machine I have now. All I need is photoshop :)
02:04:16 [vinod]
yeah, i think i will eventually get one. but i'm gonna wait until it's been through some user-use. apple's record on their first run isn't always great
02:07:42 [davb]
ah. good idea.
02:21:09 [davb]
phew, these are really good markers !
02:21:27 [davb]
has anyone ever been to tanglewood?
02:29:40 [davb]
vinod: have you looked at those lectures yet?
02:32:52 [vinod]
i watched the first one and i'm hoping to get through the second one tomorrow
02:33:13 [vinod]
i've been meaning to go to tanglewood, but i never made it out there
02:34:30 [vinod]
have you started watching the lectures yet?
02:37:00 [davb]
Ok. Rbm had a problem with one of them, that is why I was wondering. I think it was 1a.
02:37:18 [davb]
Darn. I need to draw it and all I have is a couple of really crappy gifs
02:38:27 [davb]
oh well:)
02:39:16 [vinod]
wow, i forgot that you had artistic talent. i couldn't draw tanglewood if my life depended on it
02:40:00 [davb]
Sure you could. Drawing is just really a different want of seeing.
02:40:31 [davb]
s/want/way
02:42:57 [vinod]
i can see pretty well.. it's just getting my eyes to communicate with my hands. my brain seems to mess up the signals in translation
02:43:00 [vinod]
:-)
02:45:52 [davb]
heh
02:49:49 [davb]
I am getting kinda tired of this project again and its only been about 40 mins...
02:49:58 [davb]
:)
02:56:57 [vinod]
is this the non-paying project?
02:59:11 [davb]
yeah. I am meeting with him tomorrow. Basically my plan is this. He needs ot hire a real illustrator :) I will do OpenACS 4 programming for him until the project gets off the ground.
02:59:20 [davb]
at least enough for a demo of a basic web site.
02:59:55 [davb]
in exchange for a cash payment when/if he gets some investors :)
03:00:04 [vinod]
that sounds more than reasonable
03:00:24 [vinod]
unfortunately the 'when' usually turns into an 'if' :-)
03:03:12 [hazmat]
anyone got a link for the joelonsoftware article?
03:03:54 [vinod]
i think it should still be at the top of the front page
03:03:54 [davb]
http://www.badgertronics.com/blog
03:04:04 [davb]
:) its blogged on markd2's page also
03:04:27 [vinod]
http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000339.html
03:04:39 [hazmat]
cool, thanks.
03:05:23 [vinod]
it's here too ;-) http://www.thedesignexperience.org/
03:05:46 [davb]
ah, forgot about that
03:29:51 [davb]
its late. I must depart.
03:29:57 [davb]
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03:45:54 [rzolf]
rzolf (~rolf@adsl-21-208-25.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
03:46:34 [rzolf]
hi vinod.
03:46:37 [rzolf]
rzolf has quit (Client Quit)
04:26:52 [talli]
talli (talli@talli.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
04:26:58 [talli]
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04:30:47 [Psychephylax]
Damn
04:30:50 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax pokes vinod
04:57:33 [vinod]
ouch
05:03:06 [vinod]
vinod has quit ("changing universes")
06:56:59 [dlk]
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07:59:55 [jim]
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08:00:07 [jim]
re
08:22:59 [chump]
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10:47:03 [djg]
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dlk is now known as dlk-food
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dlk-food is now known as dlk
13:30:43 [vinod]
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13:34:34 [davb]
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13:36:48 [davb]
Good morning (or other appropriate time-related greeting :)
13:37:58 [vinod]
hi davb!
13:43:37 [davb]
oops, I have to get chump...
13:43:58 [chump]
chump (~chump@alb-24-58-160-41.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
13:48:07 [davb]
Someone is using Radio Userland to monitor my weblog and the chump log.
13:50:54 [davb]
:)
13:51:00 [vinod]
not me... i use mozilla :-)
13:52:15 [vinod]
altho mozilla is really pissin me off. it's crashed twice this am
14:05:31 [davb]
oh no.
14:05:36 [davb]
0.9.7 ?
14:05:43 [davb]
send in a report :)
14:05:51 [dlk]
dlk has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
14:06:32 [djg]
mozilla is cool if you ask me
14:06:37 [djg]
pretty stable...
14:06:47 [djg]
it's the browser i use by far most
14:12:50 [Psychephylax]
brrrrr
14:12:52 [Psychephylax]
Too cold
14:13:32 [Bronxiephylax]
Bronxiephylax is now known as Workiephylax
14:14:15 [vinod]
djg: yeah, i agree. it's been really stable until this morning. maybe i should stop visiting these *objectionable* sites ;-)
14:16:54 [djg]
haha, no popup xxx sites! ;)
14:17:07 [djg]
i usually work with the nightly build and i find them pretty ok
14:19:32 [vinod]
i'm using 0.9.7. going to http://my.fool.com (financial site) reliably crashes it. haven't investigated more than that
14:20:13 [djg]
wow...fool is still around? they use windows...maybe it's a fending-off feature of IIS: no mozilla?! ;)
14:20:42 [vinod]
haha
14:21:24 [djg]
what is fool advocating these days?
14:21:36 [djg]
still aol, excite, yahoo, amazon, ebay?
14:21:55 [djg]
i used to read their newsletters...but apparently they have stopped them. and on fc i read a bit of nasty news
14:22:59 [vinod]
i think they're getting more conservative, but i like to read some of the bboards on mechanical investing
14:23:29 [vinod]
i'm still getting bombarded by their newsletters
14:23:46 [djg]
oh, i have to recheck then. some of their writers were pretty witty.
14:23:53 [vinod]
they fired my favorite fool - TMF Cheeze (he was from wisconsin) :-)
14:24:07 [djg]
i dont recall the nicks.
14:25:08 [vinod]
here's the error:
14:25:10 [vinod]
Gdk-ERROR **: BadShmSeg (invalid shared segment parameter)
14:25:10 [vinod]
serial 31 error_code 175 request_code 146 minor_code 2
14:25:13 [djg]
but there was one guy who wrote pretty cool articles on promising startup companies...pretty in-depth, not only like...hot stuff
14:26:04 [vinod]
yeah - i really thought that some of the writing was very good. less rah-rah than most sites
14:27:06 [djg]
yup crashed on me too
14:27:42 [djg]
what a stupid test of me :-D
14:27:56 [djg]
if a site crashes mozilla, i try netscape
14:28:46 [vinod]
i appreciate knowing that i'm not completely crazy ;-)
14:29:39 [djg]
now it works tho
14:29:50 [djg]
it had no cookie set on my harddisk...
14:30:09 [djg]
restarted mozilla, went back to my.fool.com, logged in again, and now it has not yet crashed.
14:30:13 [djg]
lemme snoop around
14:31:15 [djg]
okay, i am not subscribed to any newsletters...no wonder that i am receiving nothing
14:31:49 [ola]
ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs
14:32:04 [ola]
hello.
14:32:36 [djg]
howdy
14:33:09 [vinod]
hi ola!
14:35:05 [davb]
hi ola
14:35:16 [ola]
hi guys!
14:40:11 [davb]
davb has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
14:45:56 [djg]
are you all postgres guys?
14:47:37 [djg]
got a question about it
14:50:51 [vinod]
not sure if i'm a postgres guy, but i can try ;-)
14:53:03 [ola]
djg: vinod IS an oracle!
14:54:06 [djg]
i had lunch with a sapdb guy yesterday
14:54:15 [djg]
(i worked there for a while and he's a good friend)
14:54:28 [djg]
and he was interested in the _disadvantages_ of postgres
14:56:05 [vinod]
hmmm... i won't be able to help much. don't know too much about db internals, etc.
14:56:39 [djg]
what about daily life annoyances?
14:57:44 [vinod]
i really haven't noticed much. if anything, it's just issues that i come across with porting oracle-isms to the more standard postgres
14:58:10 [vinod]
but i haven't run any big sites, where dbs like oracle and sap may have significant advantages
14:58:52 [vinod]
in terms of administration for a non-dba, postgres is a dream
14:59:04 [djg]
haha, unlike oracle
14:59:20 [djg]
stability?
14:59:24 [ola]
some people say the error messages aren't verbose enough, compared to oracle. (I would certainly be having trouble reading them even it they spitted out more :-)
14:59:40 [vinod]
ola: that's a good point
14:59:49 [djg]
what is a typical errmsg?
15:00:30 [vinod]
sql error msgs are pretty good. pl/pgsql error msgs are sometimes cryptic:
15:00:41 [vinod]
PARSE ERROR at ';'
15:00:45 [vinod]
or something like that.
15:01:18 [vinod]
it will say that the error was in function foo(), but in reality, it could be in a function called from foo (or further steps in)
15:01:40 [vinod]
so, you have to manually trace back and forward to find the culprit
15:01:45 [djg]
okay, do you learn to get your way around this?
15:02:24 [vinod]
kinda. whenever i run into an error message, i copy the function into a new file and manually load it into psql...
15:02:39 [vinod]
then i add debug statements to figure out where the error happens.
15:03:01 [vinod]
if necessary, i load the called functions source into that file, and work my way to where the error msg is
15:03:10 [vinod]
it's usually not difficult, just tedious]
15:03:20 [djg]
tora is supposed to run with postgres soonish
15:03:24 [vinod]
this brings up another problem in pg though
15:03:42 [vinod]
it doesn't have 'create or replace' syntax (yet?)
15:03:59 [djg]
uh, that is nice about oracle
15:04:19 [vinod]
so, when you're debugging and you're dropping and recreating a function, functions that rely on that function will throw errors
15:04:25 [vinod]
definitely
15:04:48 [vinod]
but i think it might be there in 7.2 (not sure about that)
15:04:59 [ola]
pg_dump still has some problems...
15:05:30 [djg]
whata is pg_dump? the backup util?
15:05:56 [ola]
yes. for online dumps.
15:06:29 [djg]
hmm, unstable backup software kind of sucks
15:07:06 [djg]
but all those things are not all that bad. how many ppl work on postgres?
15:08:22 [ola]
I don't think it can be regarded as unstable but you must edit the dump file manually (or something like that)
15:12:01 [vinod]
i think there are about 20 core developers (although there may be more since red hat got involved)
15:13:16 [vinod]
here's some slashdot talk about sapdb & postgres: http://slashdot.org/developers/01/04/28/016220.shtml (take with pounds of salt)
15:14:03 [vinod]
don baccus chimed in:
15:14:04 [vinod]
Sap DB has many features and administrative tools still lacking in PostgreSQL.
15:14:05 [vinod]
Try real archiving and replication, for instance. Being able to specify where to allocate tables and indices without using "ln -s". An overwriting storage manager so you don't need to VACUUM nightly (or hourly as some do on very busy systems).
15:14:05 [vinod]
That just scratches the surface.
15:14:05 [vinod]
Yes, PG is vastly improved and I'm a big fan. And much of the above list is scheduled for PG 7.2. But today it's PG 7.1 and PG doesn't have these features.
15:16:01 [djg]
i'll forward it to my friend. he is more interested than i am
15:28:08 [davb]
davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
15:31:51 [davb]
does OpenACS 3.2.5 or AOLserver roll the access logs automatically?
15:34:23 [vinod]
aolserver does
15:34:35 [davb]
aha.
15:34:37 [davb]
Ok.
15:34:42 [djg]
vinod: u sure?
15:35:01 [djg]
we used to use another instance of aolserver...that did the rollover
15:35:07 [vinod]
not 100%
15:35:15 [vinod]
lemme check my server
15:35:46 [vinod]
yup, it rolls the access logs. it doesn't roll the error log (i use logrotate for that)
15:35:54 [davb]
aha here are the params:
15:35:55 [davb]
ns_param MaxBackup "5"
15:35:55 [davb]
ns_param RollDay "*"
15:35:55 [davb]
ns_param RollFmt "%Y-%m-%d-%H:%M"
15:35:55 [davb]
ns_param RollHour "0"
15:35:55 [davb]
ns_param RollOnSignal "On"
15:35:57 [davb]
ns_param RollLog "On"
15:36:13 [davb]
Ok. I need to figure out how to get this to work with webalizer.
15:36:53 [davb]
I am running a scheduled proc to analyze the logs every day.
15:37:32 [vinod]
note the RollFmt parameter signifies the filename, not the format of the log itself (each file will be named openacs4.log.2002-01-09-00:00
15:38:06 [vinod]
there is a parameter to set the format of the log, but it defaults the the standard format which should be webalizer compatible
15:38:10 [vinod]
(I think)
15:40:16 [davb]
right.
15:40:16 [davb]
I have 5 days work in the log directory.
15:40:16 [davb]
I could just run webalizer before 12:00, but I don't want to lose data.
15:40:16 [davb]
I think I need a way to keep track of which logs were already processed.
15:40:16 [davb]
or at least the last one.
15:40:16 [davb]
I was using reporte, but analog keeps crashing.
15:40:16 [davb]
webalizer is much nicer anyway.
15:40:17 [davb]
vinod: each time it rolls the log, it puts the time/date at the end of the filename.
15:42:58 [vinod]
yeah, i used reporte a while ago. but you're right that webalizer is a lot nicer than analog in any case
15:43:26 [davb]
webalizer does all the history, etc itself. Webalizer does 99% of what reporte does. all you have to do is feed it a log file and it takes care of the rest.
15:43:35 [vinod]
i think reporte gzip'd the log once it processed it and then only looked for unzipped, rolled log files
15:44:00 [davb]
actually it is looking for the report with server.log.todaysdate
15:44:06 [vinod]
ahh
15:44:08 [davb]
(i am looking at the code))
15:44:25 [vinod]
beats my fading memory any day :-)
15:44:31 [davb]
I think I just need an nsv. I'll put the last processed file name in there. then compare the highest dated file name.
15:45:16 [davb]
was it aD policy to use the most difficult to configure software? i.e. analog, qmail, etc... :)
15:45:35 [vinod]
oracle
15:46:56 [davb]
aha
15:47:09 [davb]
is there a tcl command to get a list of all files in a directory?
15:48:02 [davb]
file glob
15:48:21 [davb]
or actually just glob
15:50:04 [davb]
I think I will make this into a 4.x package so you can just install it and it will run the reports when you say and stuff them in a directory of your choice.
15:50:19 [davb]
Most people logs are not so big that the processing is going to slow down the server.
15:50:42 [vinod]
cool!
15:51:08 [vinod]
i can't believe davb is volunteering for work in #openacs. hasn't he learned his lesson yet ;-)
15:51:23 [davb]
well I am going to need it anyway :)
15:56:18 [davb]
is there an easy way to get the most recent date from a list. So if I grab a list of all the log files, how do I tell which is the latest one?
15:58:05 [davb]
lsort
15:58:06 [davb]
thanks
15:58:59 [vinod]
this 'talkin to yourself' thing is contagious :-)
16:00:18 [davb]
heh
16:05:36 [ola]
davb: you done with clickthrough?
16:06:47 [davb]
ola: i was :)
16:06:55 [davb]
a long while back. It was even tested.
16:07:01 [davb]
probabl;y needs some features added though,
16:09:57 [ola]
where do you view the recorded clickthroughs? admin/?
16:10:20 [davb]
sounds good :)
16:10:37 [davb]
clickthrough_mount_dir/admin/ I think
16:14:47 [ola]
ok. is it scheduled to update the entries hourly or something? 'cuz I didn't see anything there last I tried (I haven't got a system installed now...)
16:16:34 [ola]
(I did both local and "remote" CTs)
16:20:31 [davb]
I think it does it every 10 mins.
16:20:41 [davb]
Did you create links using the CT procs?
16:22:17 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@r-41.140.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
16:24:43 [ola]
nope. something like: /ct/?send_to=http://openacs.org/ - but possibly I didn't wait 10 minutes.
16:27:49 [davb]
ok. I am not sure now how the procs work :)
16:28:05 [davb]
It only records clickthrough to external links I think.
16:33:13 [ola]
davb: I'm sure it works. I just didn't pay it enough attention, I guess...
16:34:55 [davb]
don't worry about it. I can't remember how it works :)
16:46:38 [rbm]
rbm (rmello@fslc.ser.usu.edu) has joined #openacs
16:46:47 [rbm]
I hate being disconnected
16:46:55 [rbm]
Oh, morning everyone :)
16:47:58 [markd2]
hi
16:48:03 [rbm]
hey mark
16:48:07 [davb]
hi rbm
16:48:11 [rbm]
davb!
16:48:31 [rbm]
I got my SCSI burner on monday. Worked excellently.
16:48:36 [davb]
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,49537,00.html
16:48:36 [chump]
A: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,49537,00.html from davb
16:48:40 [davb]
rbm: great!
16:48:51 [davb]
A:|Charities Say No to Obsolete Crap
16:48:51 [chump]
titled item A
16:49:04 [davb]
A: non-profits can't use old PCs with no software
16:49:05 [chump]
commented item A
16:49:18 [rbm]
* rbm reads /. and sighs
16:49:19 [davb]
A: someone has to intecept these and install some free software on them
16:49:19 [chump]
commented item A
16:49:31 [rbm]
What's the MySQL dolphin got to do with Linux?
16:50:04 [davb]
slashdot is a wasteland. all the good links they are late on.
16:50:39 [davb]
* davb apologized for the poor grammer
16:51:37 [davb]
ack I screwed that up too!
16:51:38 [davb]
:)
16:52:33 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-21-208-25.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
16:54:01 [rbm]
the doctor is in the house
16:54:21 [docwolf]
yo yo yo
16:55:05 [docwolf]
how's it going?
16:55:47 [docwolf]
we are feverishly working on python stuff
16:56:33 [vinod]
we heard you were trying to poison rzolf with some "health" drink ;-)
16:56:39 [docwolf]
hehe
16:56:43 [docwolf]
arsenic
16:56:49 [docwolf]
gets 'em every time.
16:56:58 [vinod]
haha
16:57:49 [docwolf]
we're trying to decide if we should release some of this stuf
16:57:52 [docwolf]
stuff to the community
16:59:12 [vinod]
well, my reflex answer would always be "yes!"
16:59:26 [docwolf]
hehe
16:59:30 [markd2]
* markd2 gets out his rubber hammer
16:59:34 [docwolf]
i guess we'll see how useful it is...
16:59:55 [markd2]
you should release it, talk about building a community, then ignore the folks who use it
17:00:05 [docwolf]
it's going to have to be under the python "steal this and we can't do anything about it" license
17:00:10 [docwolf]
haha
17:00:13 [vinod]
check the adpl first, they might have a patent on doing that
17:00:17 [docwolf]
hehe
17:00:18 [markd2]
if you play your cards right docwolf, you can get megabucks out of the whole thing
17:00:29 [docwolf]
i just have to lure some unsuspecting VC fund
17:00:35 [docwolf]
then become a totally irrational pain in the ass.
17:00:44 [vinod]
become?
17:00:49 [docwolf]
hehe
17:00:51 [markd2]
ouch
17:01:01 [vinod]
;-)
17:01:10 [docwolf]
it's the florida water. it makes me nutty.
17:02:32 [docwolf]
what's the deal with aure on the ex-ad group?
17:02:55 [markd2]
I think he's just trying to keep folks from taking that article posted too seriously
17:03:10 [markd2]
I'm surprised he didn't express it in javascript, though
17:03:12 [docwolf]
hehe.. but it looks like he actually put "thought" into his post
17:03:19 [docwolf]
like, he was seriously pondering this crap-ola
17:03:51 [vinod]
yeah... the nerve huh?
17:04:00 [vinod]
* vinod pretends he knows what he's talkin about
17:04:09 [docwolf]
hehe
17:04:28 [markd2]
maybe he has too much time on my hands
17:04:34 [markd2]
unlike me, who has no time to chat on IRC
17:07:38 [rbm]
what's the deal with aure?
17:08:04 [rbm]
* rbm installs a virus on docwolf's machine, so that all ex-ad messages are posted to usenet
17:09:51 [markd2]
someone posted a link to the "businesses suing and winning against disgruntled employees" article
17:10:19 [markd2]
but the article was full of folks who did things like "post 10,000 messages to usenet" or "unleashed cows in the corporate office"
17:10:41 [markd2]
aure posted a well-reasoned "if what you're saying is true, it's ok" reply
17:10:48 [markd2]
which is pretty much out of charcter for the entire list
17:10:54 [markd2]
which is usually filled with bitterness and vitrol
17:13:08 [rbm]
heheh
17:14:16 [til]
til (~tils@62.116.25.202) has joined #openacs
17:14:25 [davb]
bbl
17:16:13 [davb]
davb has quit ()
17:22:12 [davb]
davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
17:23:27 [davb]
davb has quit (Client Quit)
17:35:25 [djg]
Fe
17:39:44 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
17:41:49 [denshi]
yo yo
17:42:52 [vinod]
vinod has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
17:43:36 [denshi]
one down, 10 to go
17:44:01 [markd2]
heh
17:47:24 [denshi]
what's up with this aure stuff in today's chatlog?
17:47:43 [denshi]
what's docwolf working on ATM?
17:48:06 [denshi]
is markd2 still holding his rubber hammer?
17:48:11 [markd2]
yeah
17:48:14 [markd2]
makes it hard to type, though
17:51:28 [davb]
davb (~dave@cm-208-136-23-203.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
17:51:59 [denshi]
quick, mark, hit him!
17:52:56 [davb]
ack
17:53:35 [markd2]
* markd2 weilds his rubber hammer of reflexology
17:53:40 [markd2]
wields it too
17:56:42 [denshi]
you can't weld rubber!
17:56:56 [markd2]
heh
17:57:13 [markd2]
rubber cement will bond two latex surfaces together as if they were one
18:05:18 [talli]
talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
18:08:46 [talli]
talli has left #openacs
18:10:51 [markd2]
* markd2 whacks talli with a rubber hammer
18:10:54 [markd2]
dang. too late
18:20:10 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@207-172-216-231.s739.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
18:20:22 [davb]
hi vinod
18:20:32 [vinod]
hey davb
18:21:03 [denshi]
* denshi pokes vinod
18:21:54 [vinod]
* vinod PEEKs denshi
18:23:46 [vinod]
sorry, that's the extent of my apple ][ assembly knowledge (PEEK, POKE)
18:23:52 [markd2]
heh
18:23:55 [markd2]
CALL -151
18:24:51 [vinod]
what did that do again? restart?
18:25:06 [markd2]
I think that drops you into the monitor
18:25:11 [markd2]
CALL -936 clears the screen
18:25:15 [vinod]
oh yeah
18:26:53 [denshi]
* denshi catches an unhandled exception and crashes
18:26:59 [vinod]
haha
18:27:16 [denshi]
doesn't the PEEK/POKE instruction pair go way back?
18:27:32 [denshi]
like pre-Sutherland?
18:27:42 [vinod]
probably, but my meager programming life started on the apple
18:28:11 [davb]
I never saw this before: in a job for a sysasdmin: requires sitting for long periods of time :)
18:28:18 [markd2]
most every BASIC had peek/poke in some form
18:29:48 [denshi]
davb: doesn't that conflict with 'must wear hiking boots in case a mountain appears in the machine room'?
18:30:04 [davb]
heh
18:30:12 [davb]
WTF? "Visual Basic, XML, SQL, ODBC IN Unix/Linux environment"
18:31:37 [denshi]
buzzword soup
18:31:58 [davb]
aha
18:32:20 [davb]
I found out Fleet Bank uses IIS, move your money :)
18:32:50 [vinod]
why, did it offer you a choice of popular passwords when you logged on?
18:33:13 [davb]
heh. no just they are hiring and you need IIS.
18:33:21 [vinod]
ahhh
18:33:25 [markd2]
Fleet bank .... Fleet enama. coincidence?
18:33:39 [davb]
* davb doesn't want to know.
18:33:42 [vinod]
they gotta get your money out somehow
18:35:35 [til]
til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
18:36:33 [djg]
djg has quit ("[BX] Tiger Woods uses BitchX. FORE!")
19:30:25 [davb]
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ola has quit ("changing universes")
19:46:35 [davb]
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19:51:57 [denshi]
denshi has quit ()
20:12:01 [davb]
anyone user qmailanalog?
20:12:57 [davb]
nm
20:29:30 [talli]
talli (talli@talli.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
20:29:46 [davb]
hi talli
20:30:23 [talli]
hey davb
20:33:08 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
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20:51:56 [denshi]
denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
20:52:32 [davb]
wb denshi. BTW thanks for nsruby. That is on my list of langauges to learn :)
20:52:48 [denshi]
thanks
20:53:24 [talli]
hey denshi
20:53:30 [talli]
i got your email, thanks alot
20:53:34 [denshi]
np
20:53:38 [talli]
i haven't had a chance to respond
20:54:09 [talli]
but let me find you those psets...
20:56:25 [talli]
denshi: http://www.arsdigita.com/boot-camp/psets/
20:56:26 [talli]
brb
21:03:39 [denshi]
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talli has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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21:16:15 [denshi]
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21:16:23 [denshi]
fscking macos
21:23:48 [talli]
which macos, denshi?
21:23:55 [talli]
wait, must be (
21:23:57 [talli]
9
21:24:12 [denshi]
9.1.
21:24:15 [talli]
no one's come out with worthwhile apps for osX yet, right?
21:24:29 [talli]
no photoshop, illustrator, etc...
21:24:35 [denshi]
it's my primary office machine, and I crash it at least twice a day.
21:25:04 [denshi]
I'm wizardly at that -- if a computer has a keyboard, I can crash it.
21:25:05 [talli]
the only one that almost worked, as far as i remember, was 8.6
21:25:10 [talli]
or maybe 8.5
21:25:15 [denshi]
Sometimes even without it.
21:25:18 [talli]
what apps are you running?
21:25:53 [denshi]
mozilla can crash macos all by itself. But I usually have some MS office noise running as well.
21:25:58 [rzolf]
rzolf (~rolf@adsl-20-167-11.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
21:26:22 [talli]
what do you do your editing on?
21:26:59 [talli]
wanna discuss your pset ideas?
21:27:39 [denshi]
I'm somewhat busy, but start typing and I'll start reading.
21:28:22 [denshi]
btw: who is miguel?
21:28:38 [rzolf]
i am miguel.
21:28:45 [talli]
i believe he is a student at a university in espana
21:29:02 [talli]
the miguel that hangs in here, right?
21:29:16 [rzolf]
he hangs in there, all right.
21:29:33 [davb]
bbl
21:29:37 [davb]
davb has quit ()
21:31:41 [talli]
denshi: i think your idea of getting an ACS newbie using prototyping tools that he/she can use immediately is a great idea
21:32:23 [talli]
given that the psets are built to teach MIT undernerds how to build "web apps" they are unnecessarily technical in getting a newbie up and running
21:33:08 [talli]
some of that is good because it provides a newbie with the necessary knowledge to maintain the system within the context of a unix enviro, but most people want to build a site for their boy scout troop and don't need to know the db apis so much
21:33:59 [talli]
that being said, we should probably discuss (and i wish rbm were around to join) what the intended audience for the psets should be
21:34:17 [talli]
as donb said in the bboard posts before, the OACS is not a make/make install application framework.
21:34:23 [talli]
it's a damn complicated piece of work.
21:34:48 [talli]
zope is notorious for being a system that is easy to build small web pages in and absolute hell to build an application with
21:35:41 [talli]
the psets are good in that they weed out those that are looking to build a website but don't want to learn how to build "enterprise apps"
21:35:47 [talli]
whatever.
21:36:10 [talli]
i'm not arguing against your approach, in fact i think that you are more along the right path
21:36:57 [talli]
what level of developer, though, are you hoping to address? how much would the developer need to know about unix, an rdbms or a webserver in order to get up and running?
21:37:25 [talli]
from what i gather, there would be a progression in learning the system that would look somewhat like this:
21:37:45 [talli]
a) build a few web pages that can stick content in a db and publish tme
21:38:22 [talli]
b) build a data model that will accept content and a web app that returns reports based on canned queries
21:38:42 [talli]
c) open a can of whupass and learn the DB API by heart
21:38:46 [talli]
is that about right?
21:39:04 [talli]
denshi: you should probably come back and look at some of what i wrote :)
21:40:01 [rzolf]
c) there are only 10 DB API functions.
21:40:14 [rzolf]
er, only 10 that anyone would ever use.
21:40:51 [denshi]
I think we're thinking along the same lines of design.
21:40:52 [rzolf]
in fact
21:41:01 [rzolf]
there are only 24 db api functions at all.
21:41:03 [talli]
rzolf: i should probably give you some background to what denshi was thinking about
21:41:19 [rzolf]
the issue is, most people are stupid and lazy.
21:41:24 [talli]
denshi ported the original 3.x psets to PG
21:41:39 [denshi]
I forsee some copy-and-pasting.
21:41:44 [talli]
i was asking him if he would be interested in helping to port the 4.x psets to PG
21:42:08 [rzolf]
i see.
21:42:25 [talli]
he replied that the psets are unnecessarily complex and in depth and that you end up wasting your time playing with DB APIs when people should be playing with the system a bit more
21:42:33 [denshi]
i also forsee rzolf being mugged by rampaging newbie armed with sporks.
21:42:33 [rzolf]
i'm interested in learning who the bass player is on this jeff buckley album.
21:42:34 [talli]
hence, the discussion. and it's kinda true
21:43:00 [talli]
denshi: don't bring up sporks again. there was enough of that this fall
21:43:10 [rzolf]
i haven't ever looked at the 4.X psets.
21:43:15 [talli]
same shit.
21:43:27 [rzolf]
the only psets necessary are 1 and 2
21:43:27 [talli]
they were written by philip for his class.
21:43:33 [rzolf]
and 2 can be folded into 1
21:44:03 [rzolf]
the other ones are just to demonstrate weird oracle magic.
21:44:04 [talli]
point is, though, that 1 isn't that critical unless you want to build new apps
21:44:10 [talli]
not if you just want to use the existing system
21:44:14 [denshi]
i'll come back when rolf is up to speed
21:44:58 [talli]
if i want to build a website using OACS that has ATS, ETP and bboards, do i really need to know how to build a room reservation system?
21:45:17 [rzolf]
no.
21:45:19 [talli]
those psets were also built to weed out those who can work at aD. that's no longer necessary
21:45:26 [rzolf]
but that was the point of the psets.
21:45:50 [rzolf]
to teach people things they would have never thought about.
21:46:03 [talli]
that's good and important
21:46:05 [rzolf]
like double click protection and transactions.
21:46:25 [rzolf]
someone should write something re: building sites.
21:46:40 [rzolf]
but that also could just be a function of standard documentation.
21:46:42 [talli]
yeah, and i think that's what denshi is talking about
21:46:49 [rzolf]
like there should probably be user level documentation
21:47:00 [rzolf]
and then developer documentaion
21:47:08 [talli]
there is going to be user level docs
21:47:11 [talli]
are going to be
21:47:23 [talli]
hopefully, once the dev and admin sites are done
21:47:26 [talli]
perhaps before.
21:48:11 [talli]
we just got a couple of big gigs (including the POH gig that they got 74 proposals submitted) that will have a reasonably large amount of user docs which we will HOPEFULLY, MAYBE be able to share
21:48:21 [rzolf]
hehe.
21:48:30 [rzolf]
poh had 74 proposals??
21:48:43 [talli]
yeah
21:48:47 [talli]
craigslist
21:48:48 [talli]
:)
21:48:54 [rzolf]
oh
21:48:55 [rzolf]
erf.
21:49:02 [talli]
it came down to 5 companies
21:49:12 [talli]
2 that wanted to outsource the java dev to india
21:49:23 [talli]
and one that offered the most amazing proposal ever
21:49:43 [talli]
they did "market research" and found that all the meal delivery orgs used a subset of POH's functionality
21:49:53 [rzolf]
what on earth.
21:50:00 [rzolf]
why didn't they choose them.
21:50:13 [talli]
so they were going to build the POH system and then build an ASP around that system
21:50:13 [rzolf]
what's with the outsourcing?
21:50:22 [rzolf]
people are insane.
21:50:50 [talli]
they didn't go there, obviously, but i was worried for a while they might
21:50:53 [denshi]
now I'm lost. What's POH?
21:51:27 [talli]
we just got a gig for an organization in SF called project open hand (http://www.openhand.org) it's a meal deliv org for aids patients and the elderly
21:51:39 [rzolf]
outsourcing a project of that size to india seems uber retarded.
21:52:09 [talli]
rzolf: the guys that made that pitch said that they were going to charge POH 20K to build the system using a "java application framework" called Versata (http://www.versata.com)
21:52:24 [talli]
the Versata app costs 25K per processor
21:53:39 [talli]
if they selected that company, it would have gone down as one of the all time worst decisions in technology
21:53:54 [talli]
as it is, by selecting us it will only be one of the worst decisions of 2002
21:55:42 [rzolf]
that versata app makes me ashamed to be a member of the human race.
21:58:01 [talli]
"business rules"
21:58:02 [denshi]
damn. there's quite a bit of talli to read.
21:58:16 [talli]
i think their stock price is around 50 cents
21:58:37 [talli]
apparently, they lied about their earnings or something, so they're getting sued up their asses too
22:00:20 [rzolf]
hm
22:07:58 [talli]
so, denshi, any response?
22:08:16 [talli]
to the pset stuff, i mean
22:08:24 [denshi]
yes.
22:08:37 [denshi]
I think I should lie about my earnings and scam places for 25k.
22:08:58 [talli]
:)
22:09:35 [denshi]
as for the psets... I think you see what I will enable for new users, but you've missed the tool component of my plan.
22:10:02 [denshi]
I'm a lazy bastard. I write tools to help me write programs.
22:10:59 [denshi]
As Larry Wall sez, the prime virtues of a programmer are laziness, hubris, and impatience. (Perhaps I am 'lazy, greedy for time, and ill-tempered').
22:11:57 [denshi]
...and one of the most exiting things about oacs 4.x is that it has reached a point of rigor and structure to make tool construction much easier, hence more complete.
22:13:19 [denshi]
so I forsee pampering myself with badass construction kits to build my sites for me. So when you ask me what level of developer I am targeting it at, the answer is 'me'.
22:14:14 [denshi]
the side effect of this is that a new user can start with some of these tools, or tools others have written, and quickly learn how to interface with the ACS system.
22:14:18 [talli]
(gimme an "over" when you're done writing)
22:15:29 [denshi]
then they have both reason (because they now have pages) and motivation (b/c they have had success) to dig into tcl, the raw APIs, and tuning. Which they have to do as their design gets smarter than the tools.
22:16:36 [denshi]
a new user would need to know how to install the ACS, grab the apm for some dev tools &docs, and load a browser. English comprehension would also be helpful.
22:19:21 [denshi]
so in theory, I'm happy b/c I have to type less, a new user is happy b/c he can use OACS the same day he gets it, a not-so-new user is happy b/c he can develop whilst not swamped in learning all the API at once, and the community is happy b/c new members come into the community with knowledge of the ACS APIs/style/customs rather than Tcl/bash/postgres (& looking to reinvent the wheel).
22:20:10 [denshi]
this is where my laziness is apparent. I generally only do things when doing so intersects several needs.
22:20:19 [denshi]
*over*, Buzz, *over*.
22:20:32 [talli]
denshi: i agree with you. i think your ideas are great
22:21:12 [talli]
i know that neophytos and hazmat (kapil thangevelu) were talking about, or had some initial discussions about, building a RAD/prototyping tool using ACS-service contract and the workflow module
22:21:53 [talli]
either way, better prototyping rools, or RAD tools, would be a huge boon to everyone.
22:22:39 [talli]
i think it would fit especially well into newbie development because, as you say, there is very little reason for newbie's to have to learn the APIs, SQL, tcl and the unix shell all at once when all they want is a bboard and ETP
22:23:28 [rzolf]
why doesn't someone just make a Makefile.
22:23:30 [talli]
that being said, what you are suggesting is a reasonably heavy step up in work, right? have you already laid the foundation for this stuff?
22:23:32 [rzolf]
then no one has to learn anything.
22:24:37 [talli]
over
22:25:29 [denshi]
the foundation for page flow and generalized querying was established months ago, on 3.2.5. I have a lot to go over to bring this into 4.x and make the design real.
22:26:45 [denshi]
as an aside, and this is total speculation, writing some ACS plugins for IBM's Eclipse project could be hella cool. I haven't had much time to toy with it yet, but I think Eclipse might be more realistically extensible than Emacs.
22:27:14 [talli]
whoa
22:27:27 [talli]
that will be considered heresy by some, you realize
22:27:34 [talli]
what kinda of plugins were you thinking about?
22:27:42 [rzolf]
what is eclipse?
22:28:09 [talli]
eclipse is IBM's new IDE, right denshi?
22:28:17 [denshi]
right.
22:28:22 [hazmat]
ping
22:28:48 [rzolf]
aren't there like 3 industry standard IDEs already.
22:29:08 [hazmat]
emacs, vim, and pico ?
22:29:15 [rzolf]
;-)
22:29:18 [denshi]
sheeeeeet negro, there are N industry standard IDEs.
22:29:32 [rzolf]
yeah so what is IBM's problem.
22:29:39 [rzolf]
do something new for allah's sake.
22:30:02 [hazmat]
well if there are n industry standard ides than every company needs their own to be a real player :)
22:30:05 [denshi]
it's not a solved problem.
22:30:12 [rzolf]
its not a problem.
22:30:24 [talli]
if we're doing things for allah's sake, can we talk about all these "liberated" women?
22:30:35 [rzolf]
allah doesn't like liberated women.
22:30:56 [hazmat]
fundamentalists don't like anything.
22:32:19 [hazmat]
regarding rapid prototyping tools... i did have some discussions with Neophytos. but i'm not working on anything anymore.
22:32:22 [denshi]
I don't know what's the matter with fundamentalists.
22:32:40 [rzolf]
they don't have any money.
22:32:42 [denshi]
Every time women become more liberated there are more of them at my house.
22:33:04 [hazmat]
part of the fundamentalist creed is that there is a problem which they have to go back to the roots and fight against it, lest it corrupt their souls.
22:33:06 [denshi]
maybe the fundies see an opposite effect.
22:34:19 [denshi]
brb
22:34:45 [rzolf]
hazmat: what part of Pas are you in?
22:40:45 [denshi]
regarding fundies, I can at least understand conservatives. conservatives believe that human nature is fixed, so we should never have social changes -- stick to what we know, they think. But fundies are just freakish.
22:40:46 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@r-41.102.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
22:41:43 [rzolf]
it is a social thing.
22:42:08 [rzolf]
if you feel like you are oppressed (or someone convinces you that you are) you can team up under whatever fundamentalist banner.
22:42:15 [rzolf]
or if you actually are oppressed.
22:42:16 [rzolf]
etc.
22:42:16 [denshi]
Fundies seem to live life in a state of paranoia about 'the Problem' with the world, which is never well-defined. It's a bizarre affirmation that external forces can instill psychosis in mass groups.
22:42:16 [markd2]
* markd2 oppresses rzolf
22:42:29 [denshi]
* denshi oppresses markd2
22:42:48 [markd2]
ahhh... now I can team up with rolf under his fundamentalist banner
22:43:03 [denshi]
* denshi auto-oppresses self
22:43:14 [rzolf]
yes.
22:43:22 [denshi]
* denshi thinks he broke something
22:43:22 [markd2]
you'll go blind
22:43:25 [rzolf]
rzolf is now known as daikonRadishGod
22:43:30 [daikonRadishGod]
hello markd2.
22:43:35 [markd2]
markd2 is now known as dokomun
22:43:45 [dokomun]
dokomun is now known as domokun
22:43:51 [domokun]
arrrrrgh!!!
22:43:58 [domokun]
* domokun passes wind
22:43:58 [denshi]
denshi is now known as giantTotoro
22:44:01 [daikonRadishGod]
as a cute japanese character.
22:44:15 [daikonRadishGod]
you have obviously encountered many forms of discrimination.
22:44:22 [daikonRadishGod]
from inability to extend credit lines
22:44:27 [domokun]
yes
22:44:36 [daikonRadishGod]
to strange looks at the grocery store
22:44:40 [domokun]
Strange Japanese men photographing my butt on subwways
22:44:49 [daikonRadishGod]
well.
22:44:51 [domokun]
* domokun sobs
22:44:58 [daikonRadishGod]
if you praise "rzolf"
22:45:00 [hazmat]
rzolf: pasadena is a pretty small town. i'm nearby caltech.
22:45:02 [daikonRadishGod]
everything is going to be ok.
22:45:04 [giantTotoro]
praise daikon-kami!! Hallelluhah!
22:45:08 [domokun]
* domokun praises rzolf
22:45:14 [domokun]
ah, everything is ok
22:45:20 [domokun]
thanks
22:45:21 [domokun]
domokun has left #openacs
22:45:24 [daikonRadishGod]
no problem.
22:45:26 [daikonRadishGod]
whoa.
22:45:28 [daikonRadishGod]
daikonRadishGod is now known as rzolf
22:45:34 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@r-41.102.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
22:45:46 [markd2]
oooh - giant Tomato
22:45:52 [giantTotoro]
I'm like the only person here who's not all hopped up on docwolf's energy drinks.
22:46:50 [rzolf]
brb.
22:48:13 [talli]
hazmat: i wonder if you live in my parents' old apartment near caltech...
22:48:26 [talli]
do you live in a crumbling shack behind a crumbling house?
22:48:37 [hazmat]
no i live in caltech housing.
22:48:51 [rzolf]
what are you studying.
22:49:12 [markd2]
javascript
22:49:18 [hazmat]
i'm not my gf is doing math theory.
22:49:18 [markd2]
no wait, that's another caltech PhD
22:49:18 [markd2]
sorry
22:49:24 [giantTotoro]
which Hovse?
22:49:31 [hazmat]
the catalinas
22:49:40 [hazmat]
grad housing.
22:49:46 [giantTotoro]
oh, right.
22:49:55 [giantTotoro]
were you an undergrad there?
22:50:03 [hazmat]
hell no.
22:50:21 [giantTotoro]
hmm.... do you know Andrew Childs?
22:50:24 [talli]
hazmat: how does it feel to have a girlfriend smarter than everyone in this chatroom put together?
22:50:28 [hazmat]
i can't understand why someone would go to caltech for undergrad, its like being robbed of a college experience.
22:50:39 [rzolf]
college is for suckers.
22:50:49 [talli]
here here. i agree with rbm
22:50:52 [talli]
rzolf, i mean
22:51:02 [talli]
never agree with rbm. it's bad for the skin
22:51:02 [hazmat]
sorry, phone call from au.
22:51:24 [rzolf]
i need to find a grad school in EE that is strong in DSP.
22:51:27 [giantTotoro]
au?
22:51:29 [rzolf]
and isn't impossible to get into.
22:51:42 [giantTotoro]
The element gold? Australia? Aure?
22:51:46 [rbm]
* rbm senses his name being spoken of
22:51:56 [rzolf]
"Georgia Tech" looks like the best bet, but georgia looks awful.
22:51:58 [talli]
rzolf: stanford
22:52:14 [talli]
it's not hard to get accepted to stanford
22:52:21 [rzolf]
really.
22:53:02 [talli]
no, i remember that the numbers for EE acceptance at stanford were high, like 50%. it would be pretty easy with your background in math.
22:53:13 [talli]
and i believe that you can get MA at stanford too.
22:53:16 [rzolf]
hm
22:53:19 [rzolf]
that's interesting.
22:53:24 [giantTotoro]
UM Ann Arbor
22:53:37 [rzolf]
palo alto, whilst not my cup of tea...seems a whole lot better than atlanta.
22:53:56 [talli]
careful with those words. i heard that atlanta's not that bad
22:54:09 [rzolf]
i suppose.
22:54:35 [talli]
i might suggest tufts, which is very easy to get into. and if you're interested in DSP and imaging, they have some good profs
22:54:48 [rzolf]
people that say things like that are usually just making excuses for not being able to cope with NYC or california.
22:55:07 [rzolf]
"its really not that bad. there are some good restaurants. and a Border's"
22:55:32 [giantTotoro]
giantTotoro is now known as denshi
22:56:08 [markd2]
AnnArbor is nice
22:56:34 [rzolf]
i've heard it is ok.
22:56:48 [rzolf]
i want to live somewhere that is 1. in california or 2. ultra cheap
22:57:08 [rzolf]
i would look at tufts but i never want to set foot in boston again.
22:57:39 [markd2]
astral project
22:59:58 [talli]
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/beyond/apps/gradeng.htm
22:59:58 [chump]
B: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/beyond/apps/gradeng.htm from talli
23:00:15 [markd2]
misspelled gardening
23:00:57 [rbm]
The UofMichigan Ann Arbor is expensive though.
23:01:41 [rzolf]
ann arbor also has weirdly high rent, considering it is in Michigan.
23:01:54 [rbm]
* rbm heads phisically to work
23:03:17 [denshi]
ann arbor: '20 square miles surrounded by reality'.
23:03:39 [markd2]
lot of mac geeks there
23:03:41 [rzolf]
it is cheaper to live in LA.
23:04:12 [rzolf]
i have to rule out Michigan.
23:04:21 [rzolf]
it is just too gloomy.
23:04:27 [rzolf]
it is worse than seattle.
23:05:37 [denshi]
the way ann arbor works is like this: it is a one hour drive from three large cities. So anyone who would live in those three, who wants to live in a liberal college town, lives in Ann Arbor. That explains both the rent, lack of industry, prevelance of coffee shops, and high level of education in A^2.
23:06:02 [rzolf]
my uncle lives there and he is a bore.
23:06:04 [markd2]
is that where Border's got started?
23:06:11 [rzolf]
markd2: yeah.
23:06:35 [talli]
rzolf: what about columbia?
23:06:53 [rzolf]
i like columbia and NYC, but its all too damn expensive.
23:06:54 [talli]
or cooper union?
23:07:00 [rzolf]
cooper union is too oddball.
23:07:14 [talli]
there's also steven's tech, which is right across the river in hoboken
23:07:23 [rzolf]
yeah that's more my style.
23:07:24 [talli]
i know some very intelligent, good engineers who went there
23:10:12 [rzolf]
i'll have to see.
23:10:24 [rzolf]
i'm leaning more towards west coast, or middle of nowhere.
23:13:11 [markd2]
you might not even need a big name school if the program is good
23:13:13 [markd2]
look at me for instance
23:13:15 [denshi]
UT Austin
23:13:21 [markd2]
went to a little liberal arts school in arkansas
23:13:22 [rzolf]
i dont care about big name.
23:13:27 [markd2]
and now i'm... uh... unemployed
23:13:27 [markd2]
never mind
23:13:34 [rzolf]
i went to acommunity college in the midwest.
23:13:56 [markd2]
lutheran schools *suck* man.
23:14:00 [markd2]
go to methodist ones instead.
23:14:01 [rzolf]
i know.
23:14:03 [rzolf]
haha.
23:14:39 [rzolf]
did you see the simpsons where lisa is choosing a new religion.
23:15:00 [rzolf]
and her most violent negative reaction is to "methodist"
23:15:01 [rzolf]
hehe.
23:15:05 [rzolf]
what is a methodist.
23:15:28 [denshi]
for EE/DSP, Austin might be for you. The whole Austin scene is all about hardware, mostly embedded & cpus. But EE here is the shit.
23:15:28 [markd2]
generic protestant
23:15:42 [markd2]
I have no idea how they differ from presbys or lutherites
23:15:53 [markd2]
but they seem to be in the center 'easy going' category
23:16:19 [markd2]
oooh - and Austin has a hopping music scene
23:16:21 [markd2]
rzolf you could probably gig there in your spare time
23:16:25 [rzolf]
yes.
23:16:31 [rzolf]
it is in texas though.
23:16:57 [denshi]
think of that as a challenge.
23:17:42 [rzolf]
i dunno.
23:18:27 [rzolf]
if i cant get in somewhere in california i will probably just go to the U of MN.
23:18:29 [denshi]
Austin's nice... it's really the only decent patch of Texas.
23:19:35 [markd2]
T Myers is located in Austin
23:19:42 [rzolf]
heheh.
23:23:07 [denshi]
???
23:23:23 [rzolf]
t meyes hot twisting hits
23:23:51 [markd2]
you can pick up a lot of latex action there
23:23:54 [denshi]
sounds painful.
23:24:08 [denshi]
i think mayoff is still in Austin.
23:24:28 [markd2]
probably
23:25:27 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit (Remote closed the connection)
23:26:42 [rzolf]
ok i better get back to work.
23:26:45 [rzolf]
laterz
23:26:47 [rzolf]
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23:27:20 [denshi]
denshi has quit (Remote closed the connection)
23:36:47 [hazmat]
hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
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