IRC log of openacs on 2002-01-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:19:21 [denshi]
D'oh!! Talli's gone.
00:19:25 [denshi]
So who is who?
00:23:00 [hazmat]
ruby is cool.
00:23:23 [hazmat]
i'm a lost soul wandering the channels of irc for something to do.
00:28:51 [denshi]
I miss being a lost soul.
00:28:55 [denshi]
Being found sucks.
00:56:58 [markd2]
markd2 (~Snak@r-41.53.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
00:56:59 [vinod]
vinod has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:58:53 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax (proxy@ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs
01:03:47 [Psychephylax]
:)
01:24:21 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@209-122-233-7.s1817.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
01:28:55 [djg]
djg has left #openacs
01:32:13 [beattiek]
Workiephylax... haha.
01:37:51 [Psychephylax]
hehe
01:39:12 [Psychephylax]
tomorrow it will be Bronxiephylax as I have to travel to the Bronx with my co-worker to do maintenance work on a system we deployed in a hospital
01:40:02 [markd2]
markd2 is now known as Funkyphylax
01:40:05 [Funkyphylax]
gitdown! gitfunky!
01:40:07 [Funkyphylax]
Funkyphylax is now known as markd2
01:40:39 [Psychephylax]
ROFL
01:41:56 [Psychephylax]
you're a nut
01:42:16 [vinod]
some times you feel like a nut
01:42:25 [Psychephylax]
sometimes I need to fill my gut
01:42:39 [Psychephylax]
only to get out of a rut
01:42:40 [vinod]
haha
01:42:50 [markd2]
looks like we have a nut glut around here
01:42:58 [Psychephylax]
LOL
01:43:06 [vinod]
irc poetry - i love it
01:43:11 [markd2]
do not taunt happy fun nut glut
01:43:12 [Psychephylax]
what is it...
01:43:18 [Psychephylax]
Bah, I don't remember that song
01:44:31 [vinod]
markd2: love the snow pictures! still no snow in boston. went home to wisconsin for xmas and no snow there - it was very depressing
01:44:40 [Psychephylax]
awwww
01:44:44 [markd2]
no snow for you? bummer
01:44:47 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax goes to the freezer in his fridge
01:44:58 [vinod]
haha
01:45:02 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax tags vinod square in the head with an icicle
01:45:04 [vinod]
yeah - i love snow and cold weather
01:45:09 [Psychephylax]
c/icicle/ice cube
01:45:14 [vinod]
* vinod ducks
01:45:41 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax points above vinod to a big net of ice cubes in a net as he pulls the lever
01:46:01 [vinod]
lol
01:46:10 [vinod]
Psychephylax always gets his man
01:46:20 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax points at Workiephylax
01:46:23 [Psychephylax]
It's all his fault!
01:46:23 [markd2]
* markd2 sings like ice cube
01:46:35 [ChanServ]
[#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
01:46:36 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax dives under the desk and begins to tremble
01:47:00 [vinod]
Psychephylax: what is this? bring your alter-ego to work day?
01:47:08 [Psychephylax]
ROFL
01:47:11 [Psychephylax]
Kinda
01:47:21 [Psychephylax]
I try to leave him at work so he doesn't bother me at home
01:47:28 [Psychephylax]
somehow he always finds his way home
01:47:36 [Psychephylax]
I left him in the closet this time
01:47:41 [vinod]
haha
01:47:55 [vinod]
when is he coming out of the closet?
01:48:02 [denshi]
Words to your moms,
01:48:04 [Psychephylax]
Not for a loooooooong time I hope
01:48:06 [denshi]
I came to drop bombs,
01:48:11 [denshi]
.I've got more rhymes than the bible's got psalms.
01:48:17 [vinod]
lol
01:48:17 [denshi]
And just like the prodigal son, I return.
01:48:23 [denshi]
Anyone stepping to me, you'll get burned.
01:48:25 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax pokes denshi between the ribs..Who you be?
01:48:35 [denshi]
'Cause I got lyrics, but you ain't got none,
01:48:40 [denshi]
If you come to battle, bring a shotgun. (shotgun)
01:48:53 [denshi]
Jump around!
01:48:58 [Psychephylax]
heh
01:49:05 [Psychephylax]
Cypress Hill is a million times better :)
01:49:06 [denshi]
nothing like angry irish white boy rap.
01:49:16 [denshi]
* denshi be Todd G.
01:49:20 [Psychephylax]
lol
01:49:24 [denshi]
who you be?
01:49:43 [Psychephylax]
I be Bilbo Baggins, the Barrel Rider, the Burglar
01:49:57 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax is now known as Bilbo_Baggins
01:50:05 [denshi]
I quote Chrono Cross: "Ye be me!"
01:50:14 [rbm]
oh boy, oh boy, oh boy... My SCSI burner arrived
01:50:21 [Bilbo_Baggins]
* Bilbo_Baggins cranks up House of Pain and begins jumping on Workiephylax
01:50:27 [markd2]
BURN! BURN THE DISC!
01:50:32 [Bilbo_Baggins]
Burn the orcs?
01:50:34 [Bilbo_Baggins]
LOL
01:50:42 [Bilbo_Baggins]
Go RBM GO!
01:50:46 [markd2]
* markd2 puts on squirrel nut zippers
01:50:48 [Bilbo_Baggins]
Jump up jump up and get down
01:51:02 [Bilbo_Baggins]
* Bilbo_Baggins witholds a nut pun
01:51:03 [rbm]
* rbm will install his burner. brb
01:51:32 [denshi]
rbm gots ta move it.... he gots ta move it
01:51:42 [Bilbo_Baggins]
roflmao
01:53:42 [Bilbo_Baggins]
Bilbo_Baggins is now known as markd3
01:54:04 [denshi]
denshi is now known as markd4
01:54:05 [markd3]
markd3 is now known as loggy`s_pet
01:54:10 [markd4]
We are all Kosh.
01:54:15 [loggy`s_pet]
lol
01:54:52 [markd2]
openacs is a three-edged sword
01:54:56 [markd2]
beauty... in the dork
01:55:00 [loggy`s_pet]
lol
01:55:03 [vinod]
* vinod wants to know who's smoking what tonight
01:55:07 [markd4]
http://xalton.forum2000.org/matrix/forum_hof_answers?keepcookie=136&lm=1002259717
01:55:10 [loggy`s_pet]
sez markd as he goes bork
01:55:32 [markd2]
goin' downtown, to buy some pork
01:55:45 [markd2]
but alas, mugged with a spork
01:55:45 [markd4]
how's the aftertaste on that, loggy?
01:55:58 [markd2]
and rapped with the wrench of torque
01:56:03 [loggy`s_pet]
bahaha
01:56:13 [markd2]
* markd2 waits for Vinod's famous human beat box
01:56:30 [loggy`s_pet]
Just remember, this is all being logged
01:56:34 [markd2]
rockin!
01:56:51 [markd2]
I've already proven myself to be a complete lunatic in this forum
01:56:59 [vinod]
haha
01:57:03 [loggy`s_pet]
heh, so you've reached the bottom?
01:57:33 [markd4]
you don't reach the bottom -- the bottom reaches for you.
01:57:51 [loggy`s_pet]
heh
01:57:59 [loggy`s_pet]
Does anyone know if Heavy D has a glass eye?
01:58:03 [markd2]
* markd2 makes sure nobody is reaching for his... never mind
01:58:15 [loggy`s_pet]
rofl
02:02:58 [loggy`s_pet]
I highly recommend "Cypress Hill - Hand on the Pump"
02:03:58 [markd4]
well if you're going to have a hand on the pump, I should recommend "Talking Heads - Sand in the Vaseline"
02:04:05 [vinod]
ouch
02:04:18 [loggy`s_pet]
hehe
02:05:05 [loggy`s_pet]
9:06pm up 1:08, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00
02:05:08 [loggy`s_pet]
!woot!
02:05:22 [loggy`s_pet]
what the hell
02:05:24 [loggy`s_pet]
oh
02:05:26 [loggy`s_pet]
ROFL
02:05:39 [Workiephylax]
9:18PM up 167 days, 12:30, 1 user, load averages: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00
02:05:41 [Workiephylax]
that's what I meant
02:05:56 [Workiephylax]
* Workiephylax runs back to his closet looking at loggy`s_pet
02:05:58 [markd2]
not bad
02:06:46 [markd4]
http://www.goats.com/archive/971223.html
02:07:14 [markd2]
* markd2 is worried about anything with 'goat' in it
02:08:43 [markd4]
markd4 is now known as goat_lord
02:09:09 [loggy`s_pet]
loggy`s_pet is now known as lords_goat
02:09:25 [lords_goat]
bleeeeeeeat!
02:09:59 [goat_lord]
I just realized I have no goat-based idioms
02:10:27 [lords_goat]
well then I refuse to be your goat
02:10:33 [markd2]
you gotta be kidding me
02:10:37 [goat_lord]
nooo!!!
02:10:45 [markd2]
we should can this now
02:10:50 [lords_goat]
lords_goat is now known as markd2`s_goat
02:11:19 [goat_lord]
"For he who grazes upon my goat mountain shall have eternal bleating.... or something"
02:13:47 [rbm]
Anyone worried about goats must see Dexter's Laboratory "Chupacabra" episode.
02:13:57 [rbm]
That is _the_ best Dexter's Lab episode ever IMHO.
02:14:08 [goat_lord]
I am not familar with Mr. Dexter. Where is his lab?
02:14:10 [markd2]
all I can think about is the goatse.cx site. (do *not* visit)
02:14:20 [rbm]
goat_lord: Dexter's Lab is a cartoon aired at Cartoon Network.
02:14:36 [rbm]
It's an awesome cartoon.
02:16:45 [goat_lord]
goat_lord is now known as markd2`s_sheperd
02:17:05 [markd2]
the goat_lord is my sheperd, I shall not want
02:17:15 [markd2]
he maketh me answer oracle question
02:17:22 [markd2]
he annoyest my head. my tub runneth over
02:17:48 [markd2`s_sheperd]
come follow me, and I shall make ye fishers of SDM bug reports.
02:18:18 [markd2]
bSDM
02:19:23 [markd2`s_sheperd]
can I get a headcount of doms vs. subs?
02:20:16 [markd2`s_sheperd]
oops... I read markd2's msg as 'bDSM'.
02:20:39 [markd2]
close enough for this crowd
02:20:45 [markd2]
we're all Vinod's whipping boys
02:20:50 [vinod]
* vinod uncovers eyes and checks if it's ok to start reading again
02:20:55 [vinod]
* vinod closes eyes
02:21:18 [rbm]
YES! /me is _finally_ partially SCSIfied
02:22:09 [markd2]
strangely enough, that fits in the current thread of conversation
02:22:14 [markd2]
markd2 is now known as scsi_goat
02:22:19 [markd2`s_sheperd]
man, I miss san francisco.
02:22:26 [scsi_goat]
uhhhh
02:22:29 [scsi_goat]
scsi_goat is now known as markd2
02:23:17 [markd2`s_sheperd]
there was this one guy who has a dungeon in his house in Noe -- with several computers on the LAN down there.
02:23:33 [markd2`s_sheperd]
So you can get beaten and check your email concurrently, to save time.
02:24:17 [markd2]
that rules
02:24:27 [vinod]
that business plan must be an interesting read
02:24:28 [markd2]
BDSMTP
02:25:45 [vinod]
"the market for sadomasochistic email users is expected to increase by 200% by the year 2002 and by monetizing these ... blah blah blah"
02:25:47 [markd2`s_sheperd]
it's not a shop, just some guy's house. But you know how wierd the public/private boundary becomes when your place is a regular party fixture.
02:30:28 [markd2`s_sheperd]
SMLDAP: seamlessly maintain DM information for slaves across your enterprise!
02:30:33 [markd2`s_sheperd]
I'll get right on it.
02:31:01 [markd2`s_sheperd]
markd2`s_sheperd is now known as xenopsychologist
02:33:05 [markd2`s_goat]
markd2`s_goat is now known as Sleepiephylax
02:33:08 [Sleepiephylax]
later all
02:33:12 [markd2]
'nite
02:33:13 [Sleepiephylax]
<--needs sleep
02:33:58 [vinod]
vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:34:04 [xenopsychologist]
who is /\w+phylax/, anyway?
02:34:06 [vinod_]
vinod_ (~vinod@209-122-233-7.s1817.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
02:34:22 [vinod_]
vinod_ is now known as vinod
02:34:28 [Sleepiephylax]
I am not /\w+phylax/
02:34:56 [xenopsychologist]
perhaps /\w+phylax/i?
02:35:00 [Sleepiephylax]
bah
02:35:02 [Sleepiephylax]
No use
02:35:04 [Sleepiephylax]
* Sleepiephylax goes to bed
02:36:11 [xenopsychologist]
* xenopsychologist should prescribe *phylax something dangerous.
02:38:52 [xenopsychologist]
I, too, shall go. Night, all.
02:39:11 [xenopsychologist]
xenopsychologist has quit ()
02:47:26 [talli]
talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
02:48:01 [talli]
rbm: dunno if you saw, but todd gillespie may help update the psets
02:50:38 [ChanServ]
[#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
02:51:21 [xenopsychologist]
xenopsychologist (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs
02:51:24 [xenopsychologist]
xenopsychologist is now known as denshi
02:51:48 [denshi]
Ah, hell. I was going to go home, but now talli's back.
02:52:49 [denshi]
Talli, I wrote an email for your last questions when I got back (you had already left). But let me explain what my planning for psets.
02:53:46 [denshi]
ping?
02:55:48 [talli]
hey denshi
02:55:57 [talli]
didn't see you there
02:56:00 [denshi]
LAG!
02:56:04 [talli]
sorry :)
02:56:13 [talli]
i'm three hours ahead, you know
02:56:15 [denshi]
i've been nick swapping.
02:56:20 [talli]
it takes a while for your words to catch up
02:56:27 [denshi]
only one, nowadays.
02:56:33 [talli]
have you? so i should be careful in talking shit?
02:56:35 [denshi]
I'm in Texas.
02:56:42 [talli]
sorry, two hours :)
02:57:08 [denshi]
anyway, here's my planning for psets.
02:57:22 [talli]
what is your latest gig now? and what do you like about ruby? (not a language war...) ok, answer those afterwards
02:57:35 [denshi]
gah!
02:57:54 [denshi]
copying and pasting from my email (unsent)...
02:58:26 [denshi]
I am working in Dallas as a video editor. I seem to have an odd collection of skills. Come this summer, I will return to UT Austin to finish my degree, as a recession is a fine time to be trapped within the stifling, perverted grasp of undergraduate education.
02:58:36 [denshi]
ns_ruby....
02:58:48 [talli]
ha!
02:58:50 [denshi]
1. Tcl sucks. And I am tired of it sucks.
02:58:59 [denshi]
oops.. I am tired of it sucking.
02:59:00 [talli]
you still haven't finished your degree? loser. :)
02:59:14 [denshi]
indeed. Poverty sucks.
02:59:18 [talli]
:)
02:59:32 [talli]
well, you seem to know your shit well enough with that silly little piece of paper
02:59:43 [denshi]
I left school at 19, and after 4 years of school I was broker than Enron.
02:59:45 [talli]
i hope your getting a degree in something worthwhile, like literature
02:59:54 [markd2]
or Art History
03:00:07 [talli]
you brokered for enron or are as broke as enron? either way...
03:00:40 [talli]
what do you like about ruby vis a vis python or perl?
03:01:19 [denshi]
I have been refactoring the Scoop code base, which is just a big mess of mod_perl. I don't remember why I picked it up.
03:01:38 [denshi]
But not until now, like three weeks ago, did I realize perl sucks.
03:02:00 [denshi]
I've been using it for four years now and only now has that dawned on me.
03:02:07 [talli]
perl is a bit scary
03:02:14 [denshi]
So I think I'm going to major in 'Grasping the Obvious'.
03:02:26 [talli]
haha
03:02:31 [markd2]
ah. elementary education
03:02:35 [denshi]
Python is kind of weak -- meaning it doesn't really fix much.
03:02:43 [talli]
how do you mean?
03:02:50 [denshi]
http://www.paulgraham.com/fix.html
03:03:08 [talli]
yeah, i read through that today. thought it was cool
03:03:43 [denshi]
Paul Graham draws a nice list of languages and explains their role by what they fix. I don't think Python fixes too much beyond Perl, and what it does fix, namely a throughly redone object system, it doesn't do well enough.
03:03:58 [talli]
i see.
03:04:12 [talli]
i've read that some think that ruby is more OO than python
03:04:25 [denshi]
The most recent release fixes that to some degree, ie, brings the python object system almost up to where Ruby is.
03:05:18 [markd2]
heh. Basic: Fortran is scary
03:06:15 [denshi]
And the indentation-as-syntax always bugged me. I never knew why, until someone pointed out where Python got it from. It's from a niche teaching language with a nifty interactive system, where the indentation is used to show blocks in the entry.
03:07:24 [denshi]
so, sort of like how LISP is impossible to use without a parens-matching editor, Python is silly to use without that entry system.
03:08:37 [denshi]
http://www.paulgraham.com/reesoo.html
03:10:01 [denshi]
the link gives a good list of point that typify OO languages. It's good to know, as, well, "Because OO is a moving target, OO zealots will choose some subset of this menu by whim and then use it to try to convince you that you are a loser."
03:10:39 [denshi]
Ruby is more OO than Python because of 4,5 & 6.
03:11:10 [vinod]
denshi: i was just gonna paste that quote :-)
03:11:37 [denshi]
vinod: who's your goat lord?!
03:11:50 [vinod]
* vinod bows at denshi's feet
03:12:11 [denshi]
But I think the original question was my motivation for ns_ruby in particular.
03:12:16 [talli]
uh, excuse me, vinod?
03:12:31 [markd2]
vinod has a foot fetish
03:12:39 [vinod]
talli: pay attention - denshi's talkin to ya
03:13:02 [vinod]
always wanted to be a podiatrist, but didn't realize they had their own schools
03:13:04 [denshi]
first, tcl sucks.
03:13:28 [denshi]
second, the only apps, by and large, worth writing at the moment are web apps.
03:14:02 [denshi]
third: I like Ruby, for the reasons above, and others, and I see a bright future for it.
03:14:23 [rzolf]
rzolf (~rolf@adsl-21-208-25.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
03:14:50 [denshi]
Hey, Rolf. Little ruby talk going on.. might want to grab the logs.
03:15:44 [hazmat]
* hazmat peeks in
03:16:06 [denshi]
four: there are two schools of thought in writing web apps. One is to run within the web server, and have timing and general shape of the application defined by the pageflow nature of HTTP. The other is to wrap HTTP serving within a larger, monolithic, and almost certainly messier application.
03:16:52 [denshi]
Some people seem to dig the latter, but as I percieve most web apps as glue layer between users and a RDBMS, the former is much more natural to me.
03:16:54 [rzolf]
what is going on in here.
03:17:13 [talli]
i gave a looksee the other day to see if there are any webapp frameworks or projects built in ruby
03:17:16 [talli]
couldn't find any
03:17:41 [denshi]
Taking that approach, nsd is the hands-down winner in that architecture. So I'm hacking it to support ruby, b/c I want the nsd architecture, and Ruby to write code.
03:17:51 [denshi]
QED. My hands are getting tired.
03:17:55 [hazmat]
i tend to disagree with your perspective on python, but i think we're both biased. i find python syntax more elegant's than ruby. ruby has some syntatic oddities that look distinctly perlish to me.
03:18:04 [talli]
yeah, i mean, that's what i figured :)
03:18:09 [rzolf]
what is ruby?
03:18:14 [hazmat]
www.ruby-lang.org ?
03:18:36 [hazmat]
ah. got the link right :)
03:18:44 [talli]
but denshi, why do want OO in webapps? (that is a true war statement, right?)
03:19:16 [rzolf]
i want OO in webaps.
03:19:17 [rzolf]
er
03:19:19 [rzolf]
web apps.
03:19:27 [markd2]
i am OO in webapps
03:19:34 [hazmat]
nutshell, reduce and reuse.
03:19:36 [denshi]
There are actually several webapp frameworks in Ruby, but none come near nsd or the ACS. And since Tcl is core to nsd, ns_ruby can pass values between ACS-tcl and itself. So we can use ACS, and sometimes hack something new in Ruby.
03:20:09 [talli]
ok.
03:20:14 [denshi]
talli: that's both a good question and a funny question. But the answer is the same.
03:20:36 [rzolf]
python seems pretty well suited to webapps.
03:20:46 [denshi]
People who spend time around me note that I'll build something just to see if I'm wrong. I'm messing around with Ruby just to see if OO is a good plan.
03:20:48 [rzolf]
you can learn the language in 5 hours.
03:20:58 [rzolf]
and you can cook up something useful in 2 hours.
03:21:08 [rzolf]
and there are a zillion libraries for it.
03:21:23 [rzolf]
so for instance, writing "webmail" takes like 2 hours
03:21:40 [rzolf]
whereas with aolserver/tcl it is nearly impossible because
03:21:42 [denshi]
So far, Ruby is the best language where I can use OO without it getting in my way, unlike some things like Java where OO is a fragile mess mostly suited for generating lots of 'work' to impress suits.
03:21:50 [rzolf]
there are no decent mail libs
03:21:51 [rzolf]
for TCL
03:23:50 [denshi]
call me selfish, but I just write apps to see if I like them. Maybe I'll like this.
03:24:21 [hazmat]
denshi: i've been trying to find a good 'toy' app to use ruby for... any suggestions?
03:24:57 [denshi]
dev work has stalled, considering the move & the decidedly NON-nsd job, but when I get a minute I really fly. Writing Ruby extensions is just stupid easy.
03:25:23 [rzolf]
wait what is going on in here?
03:25:35 [rzolf]
where is the place where we talk about the barbie jeep.
03:25:58 [denshi]
wait.... is Barbie is the front or the back of the jeep?
03:26:10 [markd2]
only after we hump that seal
03:26:13 [markd2]
er, dog. or whatever
03:43:25 [denshi]
mark, I *will* use the goats.
03:43:25 [rzolf]
doc just fed me some "health drink" which seems to be sapping the power from my brain.
03:43:27 [denshi]
talli, can we get back to the psets?
03:43:33 [denshi]
lag!
03:43:33 [talli]
sure denshi
03:43:34 [vinod]
rzolf: health drink? that sounds scary
03:43:34 [rzolf]
it was scary.
03:43:34 [rzolf]
at first, i couldn't see.
03:43:34 [rzolf]
then as i regained my vision, i kept hearing like...helicopters
03:43:34 [rzolf]
or something?
03:43:34 [rzolf]
but then i ran a 4:20 minute mile.
03:43:35 [vinod]
hmmm.. blindness then cinchonism then mania - sounds like a combination of wood-alchol, aspirin and then cocaine
03:43:35 [talli]
rzolf: wait till he gets you into those florida yoga classes...
03:43:35 [denshi]
okay... the psets are cool, but they don't address the two biggest complaints newbies have with the ACS -- 1. it takes goddamn forever to build your first app, and 2. since the psets bring users in from the bottom up there isn't a strong effort to teach them the ACS APIs...so there is a lot of reinventing the wheel.
03:43:35 [denshi]
I think I need to spend time with doc.
03:43:35 [rzolf]
just tell the newbies to quit being such wimps.
03:43:35 [rzolf]
and if they keep complaining, make them do it in C.
03:43:35 [vinod]
haha
03:43:35 [denshi]
rzolf! You'll never get the newbies into the back of the jeep talking like that.
03:43:40 [rzolf]
i'm sick of all these newbies. taking our women, our jobs.
03:43:40 [denshi]
http://www.goats.com/archive/010205.html
03:43:40 [rzolf]
vinod: in africa, drinking wood alcohol is a big problem.
03:43:40 [rzolf]
there are big billboards on the roadside
03:43:41 [rzolf]
that say like "don't drink chang'aa...you'll go blind"
03:43:41 [rzolf]
anyway, if there isn't anything for me to rant randomly about
03:43:41 [rzolf]
i should probably get back to work.
03:43:41 [vinod]
that sucks. it was a big problem during the prohibition here
03:43:41 [vinod]
yeah, we're trying to stay on topic here
03:43:41 [rzolf]
also, the new imac is cool
03:43:41 [vinod]
way cool. once i get a real job, i'm gonna get one
03:43:41 [rzolf]
aren't you a doctor.
03:43:41 [vinod]
part-time
03:43:41 [rzolf]
what's your excuse for not having a real job.
03:43:42 [vinod]
laziness
03:43:42 [rzolf]
heh
03:43:42 [vinod]
i want to work 1 day a week and make gobs of money
03:43:42 [rzolf]
can't you take some radiology classes.
03:43:42 [vinod]
haha
03:43:42 [vinod]
but then i have to consent to be turned into a troll
03:43:42 [vinod]
they work in the dark and snarl if humans bother them
03:43:42 [denshi]
this lag sucks. I'm going to go eat and sleep.
03:43:42 [vinod]
kinda like programmers, i guess
03:43:42 [rzolf]
yeah that sounds ideal.
03:43:42 [talli]
speaking of trolls, anyone know any good camgirls to check out?
03:43:42 [rzolf]
i'd rather be making $500,000/yr vs. $4000/yr
03:43:42 [rzolf]
how do i get into this radiology thing.
03:43:42 [vinod]
medschool,residency, etc
03:43:42 [rzolf]
hm
03:43:42 [vinod]
or marry a radiologist and sit on your ass at home
03:43:42 [rzolf]
that sounds like it takes hard work, perseverence, etc.
03:43:42 [vinod]
bummer, eh?
03:43:45 [rzolf]
yeah.
03:43:56 [rzolf]
hey how do you get to be the guy that makes the radiology software.
03:44:09 [rzolf]
that might be fun.
03:44:27 [vinod]
i don't know who makes that stuff. there are a bunch of medical software companies up here in boston
03:44:30 [denshi]
night guys
03:44:38 [rzolf]
or it might be insanely hard and pays less than being a visual basic programmer.
03:45:23 [vinod]
yeah - i can imagine doctors as being pain-in-the-ass clients, too
03:45:30 [denshi]
rzolf, I know a NMR programmer in Ann Arbor. He makes more money than god and doesn't even have a high school diploma.
03:45:44 [rzolf]
that's the weird thing about programming. it seems as though technical difficulty of a project is inversely proportional to compensation
03:45:54 [rzolf]
denshi, thats good to konw.
03:46:39 [rzolf]
denshi, can you put me in contact with him? ;-)
03:47:11 [rzolf]
i just have no idea what you actually have to know to get into that field. hardcore DSP image processing, i'm guessing.
03:47:14 [denshi]
he's a real freak. assembly viruses in school, pc games in austin, robotics in taiwan, medical in michigan...... there's a geek to which we can all aspire.
03:47:42 [denshi]
I'll dig him up.
03:48:25 [denshi]
hey! where's my illegal employment in japan!
03:48:32 [rzolf]
oh yeah.
03:48:38 [rzolf]
actually...you dont want to do that.
03:48:50 [markd2]
yeah
03:48:54 [denshi]
hahahah
03:48:56 [markd2]
you end up AIMing your buddies at all sorts of weird hours of the night
03:48:59 [rzolf]
the problem with illegally working in japan. is you have no legal recourse
03:49:06 [rzolf]
when the client doesnt pay you.
03:49:15 [denshi]
rzolf has been deported..
03:49:37 [denshi]
rzolf! When the client doesn't pay you, you pop a cap in his ass! That's the law of the street.
03:49:47 [rzolf]
honestly, working in japan is a bad idea, unless you are working for an american company.
03:50:38 [rzolf]
i popped a cap in their web server.
03:51:05 [rzolf]
and am ignoring the pleas to restart it unless i see $5000 in my bank account.
03:51:16 [rzolf]
* rzolf shrugs
03:51:22 [denshi]
ouch
03:51:43 [denshi]
what's henry up to?
03:51:54 [rzolf]
i dont know. he moved to boston.
03:53:09 [denshi]
one of these days I'm going to compute the graph of openacsers.
03:53:32 [rzolf]
i'm giving up on #openacs.
03:53:40 [rzolf]
i'm getting my MBA.
03:53:55 [markd2]
you're too short for basketball
03:54:04 [rzolf]
i played bball the other day.
03:54:22 [denshi]
I'm going to split before rzolf finds a rebuttal.
03:54:26 [denshi]
night.
03:54:29 [denshi]
denshi has quit ()
03:56:00 [vinod]
rzolf: what about med school?
03:56:18 [rzolf]
i'm trying to figure out something
03:56:38 [rzolf]
i'd like to go to med school but that means i wont be working again until I'm like... 40
03:57:45 [vinod]
yeah... i wouldn't recommend it unless you really loved it
03:57:51 [rzolf]
thats the thing though.
03:57:58 [rzolf]
that always confused me.
03:58:13 [rzolf]
how do the doctors know they "Really Love It" before they go to medical school?
03:59:12 [vinod]
most don't. we go into it becuz we think it's a great profession.
03:59:37 [vinod]
a lot of people will find that they love it as they go along, but a lot end up kinda miserable
03:59:38 [rzolf]
i think it is pretty cool.
03:59:58 [rzolf]
at this point, i'm just sort of looking for something
04:00:06 [vinod]
it is really cool - i love seeing patients
04:00:15 [rzolf]
where I don't make $200,000K 1 year, then $2000 the next year.
04:00:16 [vinod]
i'll probably go back to being a full time MD soon
04:01:46 [vinod]
i'm thinking of getting a real job and moving to nyc
04:01:59 [rzolf]
whoa... "elite"
04:02:07 [rzolf]
nyc is sweet.
04:02:17 [rzolf]
i love brooklyn.
04:02:21 [vinod]
yeah - i'm getting sick of boston
04:02:21 [rzolf]
and manhattan, for that matter.
04:02:23 [rzolf]
and queens.
04:02:26 [vinod]
but talli is in brooklyn
04:02:30 [rzolf]
staten island however...
04:02:34 [vinod]
so it'd have to be manhattan
04:03:00 [vinod]
never been to staten island. i've spent time in nj though
04:03:09 [rzolf]
i dont mind new jersey.
04:03:47 [vinod]
yeah, it's not too bad. hoboken is pretty cool
04:04:01 [rzolf]
i dont think i will move back there, though.
04:04:08 [vinod]
how long were you there?
04:04:10 [rzolf]
because i sort of like open space now.
04:04:12 [rzolf]
1 year.
04:04:23 [markd2]
just wait
04:04:28 [vinod]
yeah - i don't think i could stay there too long
04:04:28 [markd2]
everything will be paved over eventually
04:04:56 [rzolf]
ugh
04:05:02 [rzolf]
i like pavement though.
04:05:05 [rzolf]
skateboarding is fun.
04:05:08 [vinod]
eventually, i'll find some non-paved space in the middle of wisconsin and settle down
04:05:36 [rzolf]
brb
04:09:29 [rzolf]
wisconsin is nice.
04:09:50 [markd2]
too bad minnesota is such a barren wasteland
04:10:14 [rzolf]
heh
04:10:39 [rzolf]
mn is ok.
04:10:41 [vinod]
i liked minneso-duh, too
04:10:49 [talli]
mn has many attractive ladies
04:10:55 [rzolf]
i like the high plains now.
04:11:12 [vinod]
markd2's house looks like it could house a few extra programmers
04:11:17 [rzolf]
because there is absolutely nothing to do there.
04:11:24 [rzolf]
so i dont feel bad about doing nothing.
04:11:28 [markd2]
we an put you up in the barn
04:11:37 [markd2]
Backhoe Bill hasn't filled it up critters yet
04:11:50 [rzolf]
i'm sad, i kind of wanted to argue about python and stuff.
04:12:05 [markd2]
Python rulesucks!
04:12:06 [talli]
openacs should be rebuilt in python.
04:12:07 [vinod]
i love listening to the arguments
04:12:12 [talli]
how's that to start an argument?
04:12:16 [vinod]
unfortunately, i have nothing intelligent to offer
04:12:23 [vinod]
i guess that doesn't stop talli though
04:12:26 [markd2]
* markd2 makes some dumb-ass commet
04:12:35 [talli]
nope, that never stops me
04:12:39 [vinod]
:-)
04:12:50 [rzolf]
python is nice.
04:12:55 [rzolf]
its all good.
04:12:57 [rzolf]
peace.
04:13:16 [markd2]
and on that note, I must sleep before I destroy someone's oracle db tomorrow
04:13:17 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
04:18:44 [rzolf]
i should finish up some work.
04:19:40 [rzolf]
l8r.
04:19:43 [rzolf]
rzolf has quit ("[BX] rzolf has no reason... just kidding :)")
05:03:01 [talli]
talli has quit ("later later later")
05:04:32 [hazmat]
ruby has its good points, but i like python better.
05:07:43 [vinod]
i haven't used either yet, but it seems that python has more tools/docs/users
05:08:29 [vinod]
i've been playing with the twisted-matrix server and trying to look at the internals
05:11:40 [hazmat]
twisted is a marvelous creation, great for async i/o. its packaged really well with several protcols and sample apps. i still haven't had a need to use it yet, cause all i seem to be doing is webapps nowadays... sigh..
05:13:10 [vinod]
i'm not really doing much of either - just playing around trying to see what's out there :-)
05:13:26 [vinod]
what are you using for your webapps?
05:13:42 [hazmat]
zope
05:13:59 [hazmat]
loggy off
05:14:47 [hazmat]
loggy, silence
05:15:49 [hazmat]
loggy, silence
05:16:49 [hazmat]
we need some more bots in here.
05:17:09 [vinod]
i've been meaning to look at zope for like a year now, but i'm slow
05:17:12 [vinod]
haha
05:18:19 [vinod]
i need to get deep into something before i really understand what i'm doing.
05:18:39 [vinod]
it took me a month of using acs on a daily basis to understand it
05:41:21 [hazmat]
learning others get faster as you learn one more. or such that i've noticed.
05:45:08 [vinod]
alright - i'm putting zope on my to-learn list
05:50:50 [hazmat]
its taken me a long time to achieve mastery of zope... things are easier now since the docs are *much* better. but what i was saying about learning one framework (regardless of which) is that you come to appreciate certain features of frameworks and understand a frameworks style, it becomes easier to learn others. i think this applies more so to programming languages.
05:51:10 [hazmat]
s/that/that as
05:53:18 [vinod]
yeah, that makes sense. i've gotten a little addicted to openacs - i actually like tcl :-)
05:55:20 [beattiek]
haha
05:55:33 [beattiek]
vinod: whats your doctors number?
05:55:43 [vinod]
i probably shouldn't have admitted that in public, huh?
05:57:01 [beattiek]
you are in a safe place.
05:57:21 [beattiek]
i just mentioned tcl in debian-kde and almost got shot by one guy.
05:57:39 [vinod]
haha
06:04:58 [jim]
hi
06:06:30 [vinod]
hey jim
06:07:07 [jim]
vinod: heya :) umm, got a missing item for your install guide
06:07:44 [vinod]
cool. what'd i miss?
06:09:08 [jim]
if they build postgres in /usr/local/pgsql, they'll get file not found when they try to open postgres connection until they get /usr/local/pgsql/lib in LD_LIBRARY_PATH
06:09:38 [jim]
(under linux with its ld.so that is)
06:10:29 [jim]
I'm running debian potato, but I built everything up from source
06:11:01 [jim]
(not presently trusting debian aolserver maint to be responsive to bug reports)
06:11:39 [vinod]
i noticed that too, so i moved the 'set up postgres's environment variables' section up a little bit
06:11:43 [vinod]
http://kurup.com/acs/openacs4/postgres.html#install-postgres-env
06:12:16 [jim]
oop, looky there, you got it :)
06:12:22 [vinod]
this sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH in postgres's user (i also explain to set it in nsadmin's env)
06:12:30 [vinod]
i had it lower down before though
06:12:39 [vinod]
so, i probably fixed it after you saw it
06:12:51 [jim]
oh, so it was there the whole time and I didn't get to it...
06:13:26 [vinod]
yeah - thanks for letting me know about it though. any other stumbling blocks?
06:15:45 [jim]
well, I'm finding bugs in the peripheral packages... however the package mgr seems to work fine...
06:16:09 [jim]
one thing I found about aD's apm, the deps didn't work
06:16:57 [vinod]
in what way? i've found problems where the deps were set wrong (circular), but i thought that the apm did the right thing
06:17:02 [jim]
when I get around to porting my ps2-so-far, I'll know more
06:17:23 [jim]
well, I have reserve and schedule pkgs, reserve depended on schedule
06:18:10 [jim]
the dep didn't work right, and it's been awhile since I looked at it.. I have not attempted on oacs yet
06:18:31 [vinod]
oh - ok. i know don fixed a lot of stuff in the apm
06:18:37 [vinod]
for openacs
06:18:54 [jim]
I don't remember specifics, I just remember thinking that debian has much deep knowledge about deps in general; something to learn there
06:19:14 [vinod]
true - debian makes pkg installation nearly brainless
06:19:48 [jim]
yeah... I want to see if a package can be installed in places like users home dir
06:22:10 [jim]
but I was just thinking oacs might peruse their archives
06:22:53 [jim]
* jim thinks about resurecting perl-aol project
06:25:17 [jim]
* jim is trying to understand etp...
06:25:52 [jim]
no doc link
06:25:58 [vinod]
i haven't used it much yet
06:26:08 [vinod]
there's supposed to be docs somewhere
06:26:43 [jim]
I tried mounting it, and it tried etp-ing itself, so I have the paradigm wrong
06:27:31 [vinod]
there's some info here: http://etp.museatech.net/etpdoc/
06:27:43 [vinod]
not sure how up-to-date it is
06:37:52 [jim]
looking
06:39:32 [jim]
what's a .vuh?
06:40:42 [til]
til has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
06:44:12 [vinod]
i think it's a virtual-url-handler.
06:44:18 [vinod]
lemme find the docs
06:46:09 [jim]
no need yet; I understand on that surface, which is good enuf for now]\
06:46:29 [dlk]
dlk (dlk@garrison.ita.chalmers.se) has joined #openacs
06:46:57 [hazmat]
vuh's are documented in the request processor docs for the kernel.
06:47:10 [vinod]
http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/rp-design.html
06:50:23 [jim]
bookmarked
06:50:30 [jim]
tnx :)
06:51:24 [vinod]
np
06:51:59 [jim]
btw, how did you find the etp stuff?
06:54:10 [vinod]
i just remembered that museatech had a demo site up. i assume those docs will eventually make it into CVS
07:00:44 [hazmat]
the etp stuff is a pretty good demo of some of the flexibility of the cr.
07:00:47 [hazmat]
imo.
07:09:00 [vinod]
* vinod is compiling zope!
07:09:20 [vinod]
took me a while to figure out i needed the python-dev headers, too
07:09:42 [hazmat]
* hazmat falls out of his chair.
07:10:47 [vinod]
haha - i told ya i was slow :)
07:13:38 [vinod]
wow, well installation is a breeze
07:14:24 [beattiek]
ACS 4 i assume?
07:16:16 [vinod]
beattiek: no, zope
07:18:07 [beattiek]
oh
07:18:11 [beattiek]
zope is cool
07:18:34 [beattiek]
my business partner is into zope
07:18:48 [vinod]
hazmat: do you tend to use zodb or do you connect to postgres
07:19:37 [hazmat]
zodb, i have used in conjunction with pg before (to openacs datamodel as well), but to be honest most apps really don't need it.
07:20:22 [hazmat]
to answer that fully (via comparison) would require a whole lot of discussion ;)
07:20:59 [vinod]
yeah - i figured ;-) just wanted the quick answer for now
07:29:31 [hazmat]
vinod: what browser are you using?
07:29:56 [vinod]
mozilla 0.9.7
07:30:21 [hazmat]
cool, check this out http://www.zope.org/Members/k_vertigo/mozilla/zope.xul
07:30:44 [hazmat]
its a xul based sidebar for mozilla, (which is why it might look strange full screen).
07:31:15 [hazmat]
search stuff doesn't work yet.
07:31:32 [hazmat]
but the drop menus downs are nice.
07:32:21 [vinod]
schweeet!
07:32:32 [vinod]
that's the way i like dropdowns to work. not on rollover
07:34:21 [hazmat]
btw. there are a couple of bugs in mozilla that might cause problems with the zope management interfaces.
07:34:31 [hazmat]
in mozilla 0.9.7 that is.
07:35:40 [hazmat]
namely on forms with file uploads and frames it tends to hang unless there the file upload entry is non empty. i'm not sure what the exact bug is, but its been fixed in the nightlies or so i've been told.
07:36:32 [vinod]
cool - i'll keep that in mind
07:39:37 [vinod]
just got the page into my sidebar - it does look better there :-)
07:43:38 [hazmat]
cool. i should stop procrastinating and do some work before i fall asleep.
07:44:44 [vinod]
sounds good. i should probably be getting to sleep!
07:44:47 [vinod]
gnite
07:44:53 [vinod]
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dlk is now known as dlk-food
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dlk-food is now known as dlk
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13:22:22 [Sleepiephylax]
Too damn early :-/
13:22:30 [Sleepiephylax]
Sleepiephylax is now known as Psychophylax
13:22:36 [Psychophylax]
oops
13:22:39 [Psychophylax]
Psychophylax is now known as Psychephylax
13:36:37 [davb]
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13:36:53 [davb]
Hello!
13:36:57 [markd2]
hiy
13:36:59 [markd2]
a
14:18:28 [davb]
WTF happened yesterday when I was gone??
14:18:34 [davb]
* davb is reading the logs
14:18:41 [markd2]
depends
14:18:47 [markd2]
is this the goat thing
14:18:54 [markd2]
or the ruby vs pythpon thing?
14:20:23 [davb]
heh
14:20:35 [davb]
Actually that is very useful. Ruby is on my list of languages to learn.
14:20:44 [davb]
and ns_ruby makes it very cool.
14:21:15 [davb]
the ruby thing not the goat thing :)
14:21:54 [Workiephylax]
bah
14:22:20 [Workiephylax]
I was hoping it was the goat thing
14:22:57 [Workiephylax]
it took me waaay too long to drive here
14:26:07 [Workiephylax]
I wonder if I should have done more at the accident scene....*sigh*
14:41:18 [Workiephylax]
anyone alive?
14:43:12 [markd2]
* markd2 decomposes
14:43:16 [Workiephylax]
lol
14:43:57 [Workiephylax]
Now, as I understand it, it is possible to connect through SSH to a computer without typing in the password every time
14:44:00 [Workiephylax]
Is this true?
14:44:37 [markd2]
yes
14:44:51 [Workiephylax]
Do you know how to set that up?
14:44:58 [Workiephylax]
I'm sick of typing in passwords :-/
14:45:11 [markd2]
http://badgertronics.com/knowledge/one.adp?parent=25
14:45:11 [chump]
A: http://badgertronics.com/knowledge/one.adp?parent=25 from markd2
14:45:16 [markd2]
look for "using ssh without a password"
14:45:27 [markd2]
A:| part of markd's knowledge base.
14:45:27 [chump]
titled item A
14:45:43 [djg]
i saw a very interesting lecture on "ssh traffic analysis" at the ccc congress
14:45:55 [markd2]
do tell
14:46:15 [djg]
well, it was more on https ;)
14:46:20 [djg]
but a bit on ssh as wll
14:46:30 [Workiephylax]
pssst...
14:46:37 [djg]
first thing you learn is: a talks to b
14:46:40 [Workiephylax]
What's a remost?
14:46:45 [markd2]
remote host
14:46:55 [Workiephylax]
ok, then why did you write on the remost host
14:47:19 [djg]
then you learn about the size of the ip packets exchanged
14:49:26 [djg]
http://www.ccc.de/congress/2001/fahrplan/event/333.de.html <- that's a better summary
14:49:26 [chump]
B: http://www.ccc.de/congress/2001/fahrplan/event/333.de.html from djg
14:50:29 [Workiephylax]
bah
14:50:33 [Workiephylax]
have to go to do stuff
15:17:45 [jim]
B|How to analyse encrypted IP traffic to determine patterns of user behavior
15:18:08 [jim]
B | How to analyse encrypted IP traffic to determine patterns of user behavior
15:18:31 [jim]
B| How to analyse encrypted IP traffic to determine patterns of user behavior
15:18:49 [jim]
B How to analyse encrypted IP traffic to determine patterns of user behavior
15:18:56 [jim]
it won't do it :P
15:18:59 [davb]
:)
15:19:10 [davb]
B:|How to analyse encrypted IP traffic to determine patterns of user behavior
15:19:11 [chump]
titled item B
15:19:33 [jim]
tnx :)
15:19:42 [davb]
np
15:19:53 [davb]
I need to put up a little page about chump on of these days.
15:20:55 [Workiephylax]
Ok I am very confused
15:21:18 [Workiephylax]
I get the bit about generating a key pair and uploading it
15:21:33 [Workiephylax]
It's the where to upload it that gets me..the dir not the host :P
15:21:59 [markd2]
on the machine you want to ssh from, run ssh-keygen
15:22:21 [Workiephylax]
It's a windows client...it generates funky keys
15:22:21 [markd2]
on the machine you want to ssh into, copy identity.pub into your .ssh/authorized_keys
15:22:48 [markd2]
if you're in windows land, you're on your own
15:22:52 [Workiephylax]
Heh
15:23:50 [Workiephylax]
My key looks like this
15:23:52 [Workiephylax]
---- BEGIN SSH2 PUBLIC KEY ----
15:23:52 [Workiephylax]
Comment: "[1024-bit dsa, Nikolay Blyumberg@hugo, Tue Jan 08 2002 15:07\
15:23:52 [Workiephylax]
:29]"
15:23:52 [Workiephylax]
AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAACBAKCuOTwU3P6mcz+CcqrZo3g4GLrDQ+ockHGbUfys06xN6nQ7Mo
15:23:59 [Workiephylax]
...more...
15:24:06 [Workiephylax]
V6yRi
15:24:06 [Workiephylax]
l+8rXlu7F1J7oywswg==
15:24:06 [Workiephylax]
---- END SSH2 PUBLIC KEY ----
15:24:12 [djg]
yeah that's okay for a key
15:24:20 [markd2]
looks like a key to me
15:24:33 [Workiephylax]
but my identity.pub on the machine I go to ssh looks like this:
15:24:42 [Workiephylax]
1024 35 135933456347712
15:24:45 [Workiephylax]
...more...
15:24:51 [Workiephylax]
6179 nsadmin@oacs
15:25:00 [Workiephylax]
Big difference if you ask me
15:25:33 [markd2]
do you have an identiy.pub locally (not a key)?
15:25:48 [Workiephylax]
Elaborate on locally
15:25:59 [markd2]
on your windows box
15:26:32 [Workiephylax]
no
15:26:43 [markd2]
oh well. windows land, on own, etc
15:27:19 [Workiephylax]
I have a number of *.pub keys that look like key_22_ip.pub
15:28:15 [til]
til (~tils@62.116.25.202) has joined #openacs
15:35:48 [Workiephylax]
Aha
15:35:52 [Workiephylax]
There's a difference
15:35:59 [Workiephylax]
ssh v1 vs ssh v2
15:36:15 [Workiephylax]
* Workiephylax wanders off to the Bronx but promises to figure this all out later
15:36:21 [Workiephylax]
Workiephylax is now known as Bronxiephylax
15:38:50 [davb]
http://www.picturebookart.org/home/grid.html
15:38:50 [chump]
C: http://www.picturebookart.org/home/grid.html from davb
15:38:59 [davb]
C:|Eric Carle Museam of Picture Book Art
15:38:59 [chump]
titled item C
15:39:32 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@216-164-248-200.s2676.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
15:42:13 [davb]
hi vinod!
15:43:40 [vinod]
hey davb!
15:43:46 [markd2]
yo markd2!
15:44:10 [vinod]
i see markd2 is talkin to himself again
15:44:17 [markd2]
* markd2 mumbles
15:44:28 [markd2]
it's because loggy won't talk to me any more
15:44:38 [davb]
davb has changed the topic to: OpenACS: Free Web Toolkit http://openacs.org
15:45:18 [vinod]
what about Psychephylax? he talks to anybody, even Bronxiephylax
15:45:28 [vinod]
Bronxiephylax?
15:45:41 [markd2]
he asks me hard technical questions I can't answer without actually having to exert myself
15:45:47 [markd2]
so can't have that
15:45:55 [davb]
heh
15:46:53 [vinod]
i thought you made most of those answers up anyway
15:47:00 [markd2]
shhh!
15:47:02 [davb]
shhhhhhhh!
15:47:03 [davb]
:)
15:47:07 [markd2]
heh
15:47:28 [davb]
vinod has discovered our secret, he must be destroyed!
15:47:30 [vinod]
oops - i thought the 30th time you said "just reinstall the os", he woulda figured it out
15:47:42 [vinod]
haha
15:47:55 [vinod]
* vinod hides behind chump
15:48:34 [markd2]
heh
15:49:09 [davb]
http://get.vin.od
15:49:09 [chump]
D: http://get.vin.od from davb
15:50:42 [vinod]
* vinod fights off HTTP GET's with 404's but he's running out quickly
15:51:14 [davb]
borrow some from microsoft.com they are always creating them
15:51:21 [markd2]
* markd2 hands vinod a couple of 808s
15:51:29 [markd2]
you'll have to divide them
15:51:32 [vinod]
haha
15:51:54 [vinod]
borrow from microsoft? i think i'd have to order them through their website - no thanks
15:52:10 [markd2]
oh speaking of radiologists
15:52:20 [markd2]
my dad is one :-) So there are some that don't turn into trolls
15:52:27 [markd2]
so there may be hope for you (or was it rzolf) yet
15:53:08 [vinod]
actually most radiologists are cool and well-adjusted (cuz of the nice lifestyle)
15:53:26 [vinod]
every once in a while you'll run into one who bites your head off for no reason
15:53:28 [markd2]
plus you get to zap folks with radiation beams
15:53:49 [vinod]
* vinod visualizes markd2 visiting dad's office to play with the xray beams
15:54:24 [vinod]
"i know i can get superpowers if i just hit the right button"
15:54:28 [markd2]
heh
15:54:40 [markd2]
instead I got put in the office and wrote isoptope tracking systems
15:54:45 [vinod]
lol
15:56:50 [markd2]
he was into nuclear medicine too
16:01:12 [vinod]
we internists call it 'unclear' medicine (it's always - "this could be really bad... or perhaps not... what do you think?")
16:03:06 [markd2]
heh
16:03:20 [markd2]
I'm amazed that they can look at these blurry grainy images and tell there's Stuff there
16:03:33 [markd2]
but the toys they have to play with are a lot of fun
16:04:27 [vinod]
yeah - it's actually quite useful, too (but we have to make fun of things we don't quite understand)
16:05:22 [markd2]
but of course
16:05:42 [markd2]
I had a chance to do a little graphics programming on a Siemens camera / visualization thingie
16:05:54 [markd2]
had knobs and joysticks for controling the view / color ramp.
16:06:08 [markd2]
unfortunately it ran RSX, and you could only do programming in FORTRAN
16:06:54 [vinod]
* vinod now understands markd2's nostalgia for FORTRAN
16:07:05 [markd2]
I ran fortran on an Apple ][
16:07:15 [markd2]
which is a pretty perverted concept in and of itself
16:07:18 [vinod]
haha
16:07:58 [vinod]
i remember taking a class in junior high where we were sent off to Marquette Univ to learn FORTRAN for a wk
16:08:08 [vinod]
we had to use punchcards and everything
16:08:22 [jim]
markd2: remember the apple ][ UCSD pascal compiler?
16:08:28 [markd2]
oooh yes
16:08:35 [markd2]
the Apple fortran was part of that environment
16:08:55 [markd2]
I was so excited when I discovered the UCSD editor could be used like a word processor
16:09:10 [markd2]
I could do 80 columns and upper and lower case, on a 40 column Apple ][
16:09:34 [markd2]
in high school, I took a fortran class at the university of arkansas / little rock. My first exposure to vaxes (or anything beyond the Apple ][)
16:14:13 [dlk]
dlk is now known as s
16:14:22 [s]
s is now known as dullk
16:16:12 [jim]
just before 1980, I was in a company implementing forth for the apple
16:16:37 [markd2]
cool
16:16:48 [markd2]
I tihnk I was in 5th grade at that time :-)
16:16:53 [dullk]
dullk is now known as dlk
16:18:19 [jim]
ada came out around then, and the exception handling stuff interested me (typical catch/throw stuff without those names) and implemented a compiler and runtime for em
16:18:57 [markd2]
cool
16:19:00 [markd2]
in the UCSD environment?
16:19:08 [jim]
no, in forth
16:19:51 [markd2]
ah.
16:19:52 [markd2]
cool
16:20:03 [markd2]
did you work on any of the Mac forths?
16:21:02 [jim]
I wrote the typical guess (you guess a number bet. 1-200) using the exception handling thing I implemented... I would "raise win" if they guessed right or "raise lose" if didn't guess in 8 tries
16:22:21 [jim]
implemented that way, I think the source was under 2k
16:24:31 [jim]
no, didn't own a mac until like 92
16:24:40 [markd2]
okie
16:24:54 [markd2]
one of my managers at AOL was one of the guys that did the original 1984 Mac Forth
16:25:20 [markd2]
that poor machine was so memory starved, forth was about the only way to program on it in the early days
16:25:25 [jim]
did he work on postscript?
16:25:32 [markd2]
nope
16:25:35 [markd2]
This was Dave Colburn
16:25:44 [jim]
I knew dave :)
16:25:53 [markd2]
really?!
16:26:02 [markd2]
I think he's in California now
16:26:09 [markd2]
he was my boss for a year and a half
16:26:23 [jim]
I think so, he went to the fig mtgs and asilomar forml mtgs
16:26:38 [markd2]
big guy, wears suspenders
16:26:47 [jim]
brown hair?
16:26:53 [markd2]
yeah
16:26:55 [markd2]
good sense of humor
16:48:36 [jim]
so that was like into the 90s?
16:48:56 [markd2]
yea
16:49:04 [markd2]
95-97ish
16:49:33 [jim]
recent
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17:35:39 [ola]
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17:36:13 [davb]
Hi ola!
17:36:43 [ola]
hi dave!
17:39:54 [davb]
How is debian? Which window manager did you pick? :)
17:49:26 [ola]
debian is fine, thanks. although I have to admit that playing around with window managers and OSs isn't half as fun as playing with OACS and the templating system and such things...(I'll stick with using xfce).
18:02:18 [jim]
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18:11:22 [davb]
ah. yeah, building something new is more interesting.
18:12:02 [markd2]
the Thrill of Creation
18:12:08 [markd2]
the Agony of The Feet
18:14:40 [davb]
I actually prefer using a good chair to standing during hacking.
18:18:14 [ola]
I decided to give debian a try on this old AMD K6 166MHz 64MB box I'm on now, and I'm kind of impressed by linux. it feels about as swift as Win 2000 does on my other K6-2 450MHz with 128MB...
18:19:47 [markd2]
Linux is awesome
18:20:18 [ola]
yep
18:24:42 [ola]
have anyone "used" the rss-support package?
18:24:59 [ola]
s/have/has
18:26:33 [davb]
not yet
18:26:52 [markd2]
ETP is a simple CMS kidn of system, right?
18:27:00 [ola]
yup
18:27:07 [davb]
yes, but don't say that to talli.
18:27:12 [markd2]
can it be used for newsletter kind of things?
18:27:19 [davb]
it is very powerful
18:27:25 [markd2]
like "here is the october edition of sporks anonymous. here is the december edition"
18:27:26 [davb]
define newsletter
18:27:32 [davb]
easy
18:27:42 [markd2]
cool
18:27:43 [davb]
you can have multiple sections.
18:27:47 [davb]
with multiple pages
18:27:49 [markd2]
does it have some kind of workflow?
18:28:02 [markd2]
just something simple like submit / edit / publish
18:28:18 [davb]
yes, but there isn't any sophisticated permissions.
18:28:30 [davb]
If you have permission to submit, you can edit and publish.
18:28:51 [markd2]
ok
18:28:56 [davb]
I have to go setup for a demonstation bbiab
18:29:08 [markd2]
thanks
18:30:47 [ola]
markd2: you can play around with the upcoming version (I think/hope) at: http://demo.infiniteinfo.com/modetp
18:31:05 [markd2]
ooooh
18:34:34 [vinod]
* vinod anxiously awaits markd2's "Web Development in FORTRAN Newsletter"
18:34:44 [markd2]
heh
18:34:59 [markd2]
my dad is trying to talk the American Brahms Society into making an online version of their newsletter
18:35:03 [markd2]
I'll probably be volunteered for it
18:35:11 [markd2]
and I don't wnat to use the aD CMS jazz
18:36:10 [vinod]
cool!
18:37:08 [vinod]
i don't think the brahms society would appreciate you using any "jazz"
18:37:15 [vinod]
where's my drumroll?
18:37:25 [markd2]
ba-dum *bing*
18:37:32 [vinod]
thanks ;-)
18:37:32 [markd2]
oops. hit the cowbell there
18:38:06 [vinod]
lol - thought it sounded a bit off
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20:09:29 [markd2]
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20:45:40 [davb]
markd2: i was thinking the same thing about that dilbert cartoon :)
20:47:44 [markd2]
heh
20:48:28 [davb]
nice snow beings also.
20:51:35 [markd2]
thanks
20:51:41 [markd2]
they're still out there
20:51:59 [davb]
cool.
21:20:29 [markd2]
http://www.bigempire.com/postittheater/
21:20:29 [chump]
E: http://www.bigempire.com/postittheater/ from markd2
21:20:34 [markd2]
E:| Post-It note theater
21:20:34 [chump]
titled item E
21:23:43 [davb]
excellent. I'll check it out later. Time to go :)
21:23:46 [davb]
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21:37:24 [ola]
heh. ice fishin' is pretty lame
21:38:30 [markd2]
heh
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ola has quit ("changing universes")