IRC log of openacs on 2002-01-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:15:33 [talli]

may i ask an emacs question without being ridiculed?

00:18:59 [rbm]

talli: of course

00:19:14 [talli]

thanks

00:19:38 [talli]

so i downloaded emacs, although because i'm on a 56k connection i downloaded the binary only

00:20:07 [talli]

i would like to install norman walsh's docbook IDE which requires that i add some things to the .emacs file

00:20:26 [talli]

if i did not download the sources, do i have a .emacs file? if so, where can i find it?

00:21:02 [rbm]

argh. only 27 reactions now.

00:21:28 [rbm]

talli: you're on windows right?

00:21:40 [talli]

yes, on windows

00:21:53 [talli]

what are referring to about reactions, rbm?

00:21:54 [rbm]

Then declare an enviroment variable on your autoexec.bat with "SET HOME=\some

00:21:58 [rbm]

Then declare an enviroment variable on your autoexec.bat with "SET HOME=\some\dir"

00:22:06 [rbm]

and emacs will search for your .emacs there

00:22:29 [rbm]

If this is on Win2k, then you do that on the control panel somewhere

00:23:20 [davb]

Psychephylax: how do I change the meny font size in xfce? Its huge!

00:23:21 [talli]

does that mean i have a .emacs file?

00:23:33 [davb]

You probabaly have to create one.

00:23:51 [beattiek]

couldn't you just search for it?

00:23:55 [talli]

i tried

00:23:58 [talli]

nothing there

00:24:20 [davb]

There is probably a sample one around somewhere.

00:24:47 [rbm]

talli: I can send you mine if you want

00:24:59 [rbm]

Or you can use one of the many in dotfiles.org

00:25:11 [davb]

dotfiles.com (i was just there :)

00:25:16 [talli]

thanks, i'll check out dotfiles.com

00:25:21 [rbm]

Oh, .com :)

00:25:29 [davb]

rbm has a GREAT .emacs.

00:25:53 [rbm]

davb: Uh, thanks :)

00:25:53 [talli]

hmmm... then can maybe i will take yours, rbm :)

00:25:56 [rbm]

* rbm blushes

00:26:03 [davb]

where can I get a decent fixed width font?

00:26:10 [davb]

everything I have it killing my eyes.

00:26:17 [davb]

andale mono is TOO TALL.

00:27:46 [talli]

i need to get away from computers. talk to you guys tomorrow morning :)

00:27:47 [talli]

later

00:27:49 [talli]

talli has quit ("later later later")

00:27:56 [rbm]

talli: http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/emacs.txt

00:28:06 [rbm]

hmmm. too late.

00:29:54 [rbm]

brb

00:33:58 [til]

could somebody help me verify that many context bar links in the groups admin pages are wrong?

00:35:05 [til]

for example, /admin/group-types/one?group_type=group - the link last link in the context bar points to the same page, not to the parent one

00:35:05 [davb]

ok

00:35:18 [til]

it is href=""

00:35:45 [davb]

that's right, its wrong :)

00:36:03 [til]

great ;-)

00:36:15 [davb]

til, a cursory glance shows they are ALL like that...

00:36:32 [davb]

oops not all, most :)

00:36:40 [til]

i just started fixing them

00:36:54 [til]

there are a lot in acs-subsite

00:37:09 [davb]

ok. it looks like mostly the new and add pages.

00:38:28 [til]

i added a [ad_conn package_url]admin/group-types/ - does that sound reasonable?

00:41:54 [til]

it's strange that they are wrong in so many places - did the author plan to add some magic in the template? (well, maybe it was just lazyness and i'm paranoid ...)

00:44:38 [davb]

probably just an oversite. they were broken all over the place. that looks good. its how they are built in packages I have seen.

00:44:52 [rbm]

the author probably had the rug pulled before he could finish it

00:45:30 [til]

ok

00:52:09 [rbm]

SolarWolf rocks

00:53:04 [davb]

solarwolf is?

00:53:53 [davb]

ah cool.

00:56:13 [davb]

brb

00:56:18 [davb]

davb has quit (Remote closed the connection)

00:58:55 [rbm]

really cool game.

00:59:00 [rbm]

Amazing what you can do with Python.

00:59:55 [Psychephylax]

What kind of a game is it?

01:00:22 [rbm]

A clone of Atari's SolarFox

01:00:35 [Psychephylax]

what's SolarFox?

01:00:54 [rbm]

You are the pilot of a ship and you have to collect boxes, while defending yourself from rockets shooting at you

01:01:25 [Psychephylax]

Does it need X to run?

01:01:31 [rbm]

http://shredwheat.zopesite.com/solarwolf

01:01:32 [chump]

F: http://shredwheat.zopesite.com/solarwolf from rbm

01:01:33 [rbm]

Psychephylax: Yes.

01:01:35 [jim]

sounds like asteroids plus boxgathering

01:01:50 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax wanders off to watch the Simpsons

01:01:54 [rbm]

F:|SolarWolf's homepage. A very cool game.

01:01:55 [chump]

titled item F

01:02:00 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax is now known as Simpsophylax

01:04:28 [rbm]

* rbm tries twitch

01:04:34 [jim]

Vinod: ayh?

01:04:48 [rbm]

Vinod's here?

01:05:03 [jim]

that's what I'm asking :) guess not :)

01:05:09 [jim]

here's why:

01:05:15 [rbm]

Ah. ayh -> are you here.

01:06:07 [jim]

he should put a thing in his oacs4 install guide that says about shared libs (LD_LIBRARY_PATH set to /usr/local/pgsql/lib)

01:06:23 [rbm]

Hmmm. My mouse just died

01:06:33 [jim]

mousetrap?

01:07:31 [Simpsophylax]

Roberto didn't feed him

01:07:57 [rbm]

anyway to revive it via X?

01:08:16 [jim]

symptoms?

01:08:18 [Simpsophylax]

nope

01:08:23 [Simpsophylax]

only mouth to mouth

01:09:03 [Simpsophylax]

Don't worry Roberto, you're amongst friends, we won't tell you were frenching a rodent

01:09:15 [beattiek]

:)

01:09:47 [jim]

look what I started :P a channel full of fledgling badpun tellers :)

01:10:00 [jim]

I am still the master badpun and teller!

01:10:34 [Simpsophylax]

oh boy

01:10:37 [Simpsophylax]

snow!

01:10:49 [jim]

where?

01:11:05 [Simpsophylax]

in NY later I hear

01:13:46 [rbm]

I mish twitch wouldn't exit everytime I died

01:14:17 [jim]

rbm: tried pingus?

01:14:41 [jim]

(you'll need opengl and drm/dri for that)

01:17:54 [rbm]

jim: I haven't played it in a while.

01:18:02 [rbm]

(i.e. over a year :-))

01:26:35 [davb]

davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs

01:27:25 [jim]

rbm: what happens when you go to /doc/acs-templating/demo/index.html on an acs 4 and view the output of the first template example on the last group (Description "A simple form")?

01:27:37 [jim]

err oacs4 w/pg

01:28:59 [talli]

talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs

01:29:29 [jim]

talli: you're editor of the brief install guide vinod's doing?

01:29:42 [davb]

jim: me too

01:29:49 [jim]

ahh

01:30:00 [jim]

he should put a thing in his oacs4 install guide that says about shared libs (LD_LIBRARY_PATH set to /usr/local/pgsql/lib)

01:30:32 [talli]

yeah, i am

01:30:54 [jim]

before doing so, query produces a "file not found" err

01:31:37 [jim]

err, opening, not query

01:32:56 [jim]

btw...

01:33:21 [davb]

jim: I think that is an unported sequence

01:33:46 [jim]

If I took an acs bootcamp (in Berkeley) in feb 2001,

01:33:47 [davb]

yes it is.

01:34:16 [jim]

am I considered tainted wrt openacs?

01:34:27 [davb]

Java?

01:34:29 [jim]

nope

01:34:29 [davb]

or Tcl

01:34:33 [jim]

tcl

01:34:36 [davb]

No then.

01:34:42 [davb]

The tcl stuff was all GPLed

01:34:51 [jim]

they offered to javaize one of the other people, he declined

01:35:03 [davb]

btw: xfce is a wonderful window manager

01:35:17 [jim]

"you can do the bootcamp in java; we'll set you right up"

01:35:35 [davb]

rbm: should I submit the templating bug to the sdm?

01:35:38 [jim]

never saw a line of java the whole time I was there

01:35:41 [davb]

or post in the forum?

01:35:46 [davb]

yeah!

01:36:29 [Simpsophylax]

heh

01:36:33 [Simpsophylax]

Dave likes it!

01:37:41 [Simpsophylax]

Dave, did you ever figure out your problem with XFce?

01:38:06 [davb]

nah. I just finally moved the window and it stuck where I left it :)

01:38:18 [rbm]

davb: yeah

01:38:26 [Simpsophylax]

lol

01:38:59 [davb]

* davb generates patch

01:39:06 [jim]

davb: you're not dave cohen are you?

01:39:14 [davb]

no, dave bauer

01:40:12 [jim]

all his stuff (ps0, advice for bootcampers, etc) 404 forbidden

01:40:43 [davb]

darn

01:40:53 [davb]

that was good stuff.

01:42:10 [jim]

I bet a search engine cached it...

01:42:33 [talli]

jim: you can get it somewhere. i think he mentioned on the bboards that he moved it somewhere

01:42:50 [talli]

check the bboards for his posts

01:44:40 [davb]

http://web.archive.org/web/20010710030108/www.primenet.com/~cohen/arsdigita/

01:44:41 [chump]

G: http://web.archive.org/web/20010710030108/www.primenet.com/~cohen/arsdigita/ from davb

01:44:42 [talli]

jim: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0003Ps&topic_id=OpenACS&topic=11

01:44:53 [davb]

G:| Problem Set 0 etc...

01:44:53 [chump]

titled item G

01:51:54 [Simpsophylax]

G: Do it at your own risk ;)

01:51:54 [chump]

commented item G

01:53:23 [jim]

nope, that link still has links to the forbidden items

01:53:35 [davb]

ah... it links to the old stuff..

01:54:04 [davb]

add a web.archive.org/web/20010710030108 in front of the URLs maybe

01:54:18 [davb]

aha

01:57:57 [davb]

hmmm. why would files created by cvs update have different permissions than ones created by cvs checkout?

01:58:33 [davb]

the updated one has 644, eveything else is 775

02:00:00 [rbm]

* rbm shrughs

02:00:04 [rbm]

shrugs even

02:00:22 [davb]

its weird.

02:00:27 [davb]

I am sure I did somethign wrong :)

02:11:36 [davb]

who should own the local CVS repository?

02:12:21 [rbm]

I don't think it matters.

02:12:40 [davb]

OK. I got an error when I tried to update from mine...

02:16:55 [rbm]

brb

02:20:56 [beattiek]

dave, does this look right?

02:20:56 [beattiek]

chmod -R www-data.www-data /var/www/infoptics/

02:21:13 [davb]

looks ok to me.

02:21:15 [beattiek]

i'm getting an error like this:

02:21:21 [beattiek]

chmod: invalid mode string: `www-data.www-data'

02:21:32 [davb]

wait :) chown

02:21:33 [beattiek]

the user/group exists.

02:21:37 [beattiek]

ahhh

02:21:38 [beattiek]

lol

02:21:50 [beattiek]

I can't belive i missed that

02:21:57 [davb]

why are we all fooling around with computers on sunday night....

02:22:11 [davb]

who can instruct me on creating a diff properly for the sdm?

02:22:24 [beattiek]

i think i read over it checking and said "chown www-data.ww......... looks good to me

02:22:27 [beattiek]

:)

02:22:43 [davb]

me too

02:23:31 [beattiek]

we are playing around with comps on saturday cause we have something due tommorow?

02:23:48 [beattiek]

well tuesday, but i always try to be a day early

02:24:21 [davb]

ah

02:24:36 [davb]

I have something due last november....

02:31:54 [talli]

talli has left #openacs

02:32:00 [beattiek]

i see, when will it be done?

02:32:31 [davb]

I am not sure. I have to have a meeting soon.

02:33:47 [jim]

debian? maybe the user is called aolserver, and so the chown would be to aolserver.www-data

02:34:28 [beattiek]

jim, we got it.

02:34:34 [jim]

and if you really want to let www-data members to be able to alter, set their umask to 002

02:34:34 [beattiek]

i was using chmod

02:34:40 [jim]

oic

02:34:47 [beattiek]

thx tho

02:34:55 [beattiek]

this is for PHP Nuke

02:34:58 [beattiek]

not OACS

02:35:05 [beattiek]

i'm just ripping you guys off :)

02:35:12 [jim]

:P

02:35:43 [davb]

heh

02:37:28 [jim]

maybe someone should obtain the ps0 & etc stuff, and contact Dave Cohen for permission or such

02:37:40 [jim]

host em on openacs.org

02:37:48 [davb]

Ok, jim, I'll put you down for that :)

02:41:49 [jim]

to cohen@primenet.com

02:42:35 [jim]

subject: Permission by OpenACS.org to download and host Bootcamp and other introductory docs

02:42:41 [jim]

Hi,

02:42:46 [jim]

I've been asked to see if it's all right for OpenACS.org to host your problem set zero and advice to bootcampers docs.

02:43:33 [jim]

-Jim Lynch <jwl@debian.org>

02:43:46 [jim]

howzat? want a cc?

02:45:16 [davb]

Cool. I was only kidding. Actually I am wgetting the stuff from there now...

02:45:18 [davb]

:)

02:45:58 [jim]

well, I can still send the msg if you want... if you want to be CCed, email?

02:46:10 [jim]

if I shouldn't send, say that too :)

02:47:40 [davb]

No, its a good idea. Just not up to me :)

02:48:01 [davb]

It looks like good stuff. I never read most of it.

02:53:06 [til]

davb: still interested in diff instructions?

02:53:16 [davb]

til: yes, please.

02:53:38 [davb]

I have the old file and new file in packages/acs-templating/sql/postgresql

02:53:50 [til]

i use cvs diff

02:54:16 [davb]

ah that would be smart :)

02:54:23 [til]

cvs diff -c www/index.tcl > bla.patch

02:54:32 [davb]

that is much easier thanks

02:54:43 [til]

you have to cd to the package root, e.g. cd /web/foo/packages/bboard/

02:54:49 [davb]

ok.

02:55:36 [til]

i wasnt sure, but steve and don accepted 3 patches already that were made that way without complaining

02:55:45 [davb]

ok

02:56:13 [til]

the thing with cd to packageroot is hidden somewhere in the boards

03:01:42 [davb]

excelent. that is done.

03:02:56 [davb]

that web archive is tricky. the URLs don't match so you have to get each file seperately. they are not all in one directory.

03:03:00 [davb]

:(

03:03:14 [davb]

but wget should still follow the links.

03:08:37 [jim]

lemme see if I understand this piece.... you're saying that if a person wants to send a patch in, it should be diffed when in packages/?

03:10:21 [jim]

cause the maints want to apply all the patches from that dir?

03:11:21 [til]

no, in packages/package_name/

03:11:21 [davb]

I did mine from the package directory packages/acs-templating in this case.

03:11:22 [til]

before submitting, the sdm gives some hints: http://openacs.org/sdm/patch-submit.tcl?package_id=9

03:11:22 [til]

"Your patch file must be generated from the top- level

03:11:22 [til]

directory of the package. Use a contextual diff if you can to ensure

03:11:22 [til]

maximal compatibility with existing changes made to the repository."

03:12:29 [davb]

til: I always thought that meant the sdm package, that is /openacs-4/

03:12:54 [jim]

oic

03:13:02 [til]

davb: i hope not ...

03:13:16 [davb]

til: I doubt its a big deal :)

03:13:56 [til]

yeah

03:14:27 [til]

we won't get banned from openacs.org for getting that wrong ;-)

03:14:43 [davb]

no anyone who actually contributes is very welcome!

03:29:03 [hazmat]

unless you offend the powers that be.

03:44:20 [davb]

time to go. goodnight

03:44:22 [davb]

davb has quit ("Client Exiting")

04:59:58 [jim]

ok, I want a chump now :)

05:00:37 [jim]

chump: what are you?

05:00:38 [chump]

Not understood: what are you?

05:02:01 [jim]

oh well, leaving that for another day

06:50:06 [djg]

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07:34:23 [jim]

jim has quit (Remote closed the connection)

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09:58:55 [jim]

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09:59:09 [jim]

hi.

10:36:10 [djg]

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10:46:44 [dlk]

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10:59:50 [jim]

any oacs 4 people awake?

11:00:33 [til]

sort of

11:00:36 [djg]

yes

11:00:56 [til]

hey djg!

11:01:19 [djg]

i'm looking for ppl that have used the clustering service

11:01:56 [jim]

ok... I'm trying to use general comments and static pages

11:02:13 [jim]

and I guess I'm not understanding what's up

11:02:56 [djg]

no idea about those

11:04:59 [til]

i just read that the gc ui changed for the worse ...

11:06:14 [til]

what are you trying to do, jim?

11:07:12 [ola]

ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs

11:07:42 [jim]

til: I'm trying to set up one page, a static html, that is commentable

11:09:25 [til]

via the automatic html replacing filter of static-pages? sorry, never used that ... I just know that it's easy to insert comments in an adp page (which can be mostly static, of course)

11:09:38 [jim]

so I installed the static pages and general comments packages, created single instances of each and mounted them, then edited an html (i.e., static page)

11:11:16 [ola]

jim: you need to go to the static-pages url and scan for files.

11:11:25 [jim]

did that...

11:11:28 [jim]

no joy :)

11:11:41 [jim]

sorry, didn't mention that part :)

11:12:12 [jim]

should I tell my html to use a particular template?

11:13:01 [jim]

I have a file in (pageroot)/a-static-page.html

11:13:04 [jim]

contents:

11:13:13 [jim]

This is a static page. Can I comment?

11:13:45 [ola]

it's not needed for the comments to work. what extensions have you activated in the parameters section?

11:14:00 [jim]

hmmm, lemme check that

11:15:14 [ola]

jim: you should be able to comment now... perhaps you need <html> </html> etc...

11:15:37 [jim]

ola: ola :)

11:16:07 [jim]

ok, tried with and without that

11:16:54 [jim]

this is a very very vanilla system, just installed it yesterday

11:17:09 [ola]

so is the page marked as "commentable" in the admin page?

11:17:11 [jim]

before that, only did acs4-oracle

11:17:20 [jim]

yes

11:17:51 [jim]

do I click on "commentable" to make it commentable? or is it telling me it is commentable?

11:17:53 [ola]

try restarting the server... :-)

11:18:09 [jim]

ahh, ok

11:18:14 [ola]

commentable means it's just that...;:-)

11:20:17 [jim]

ola: ok, let me look into that

11:20:42 [jim]

btw, did you win runner up in the 2000 ad prize?

11:20:49 [ola]

too bad I don't have an instance of OACS installed at the moment

11:21:31 [ola]

jim: not that I know....

11:22:12 [jim]

ahh, ok... you'd remember... you'd see your picture, you would have met some people, had lunch/dinner with, etc :)

11:22:39 [ola]

heh

11:24:34 [jim]

I just installed the thing, got past some problems wrt aolserver talking to postgres, installed it and all packages...

11:25:09 [ola]

cool. whats the initial impression?

11:26:02 [jim]

still a few problems, things aren't ported completely, but the package manager works and is solid enough to install all the packages without error

11:26:10 [ola]

I like the static-pages package very much and will use it quite a bit, I think.

11:27:07 [jim]

I have a regular acs too, I'll give that a try after awhile and see how it's supposed to behave

11:27:43 [ola]

yeah! it's a shame the package file is removed, though, if you uninstall it via the package manager...

11:28:17 [ola]

(from the file system, that is)

11:28:38 [jim]

(so far, I've only tried site map, pkg mgr, logging in, general comments, static pages, wimpypoint

11:28:51 [ola]

particularly frutrating when you're porting a package

11:28:54 [jim]

but I have like 40 pkgs installed

11:29:15 [ola]

ok

11:29:29 [jim]

you know how they keep the whole acs in cvs?

11:29:43 [ola]

you should try out ETP. it's really cool..

11:29:48 [jim]

etp?

11:29:58 [ola]

edit this page.

11:30:13 [jim]

ahh, is that a replacement for Page?

11:30:37 [ola]

well. a replacement for content management.

11:31:02 [jim]

ohh, a new frontend for the content repository?

11:31:11 [ola]

yes.

11:31:30 [ola]

jim: keep in cvs?

11:32:10 [jim]

you know how you untar acs in /web/server?

11:32:47 [jim]

when you're first installing it?

11:33:39 [jim]

and you know cvs?

11:33:53 [ola]

not sure what u mean... I usually cvs checkout to /web and thats it...

11:34:11 [ola]

I know a little about cvs, yes...

11:34:16 [jim]

ola: yes, exactly that...

11:34:26 [jim]

that brings the whole acs there... yes?

11:35:24 [ola]

if I remember correctly, yes. have you seen Vinod's install guide? it's all in there.

11:36:01 [jim]

so if the apm removes the files of a package, you can cd there and cvs update or cvs co

11:36:53 [ola]

I would think so, yes

11:37:50 [jim]

I see, so rather than get the tarball and untar, you get everything from oacs cvs

11:38:02 [jim]

(which is what they suggest...)

11:38:20 [jim]

I found a tarball of everything, and I'm running on that

11:38:40 [ola]

thats what I usually do since everything upgrades so often.

11:38:57 [ola]

jim: that's ok too;-)

11:46:25 [jim]

dang, etp is not in my doc list

11:49:56 [ola]

jim: you having any luck with static-pages?

11:53:15 [jim]

no... I'll get to that more when I understand more of what's going on...

11:59:58 [jim]

it's acting weird

12:04:13 [ola]

ok. (you put the html file under openacs-4/www/, right?)

12:04:23 [ola]

jim: did you get a nightly tarball from january?

12:04:34 [jim]

maybe

12:04:42 [ola]

ok

12:05:00 [jim]

you think I should cvs up?

12:05:37 [ola]

no, not really. a january tarball should be just fine.

12:09:35 [ola]

jim! yes you should get it from cvs instead! tha latest tarball doesn't include the latest patches for static-pages...

12:10:00 [ola]

That explains why it's not working for ya;-)

12:11:45 [jim]

ok, I'm gonna assume the datamodel didn't change, to begin with :)

12:12:19 [ola]

don't assume that. I' sure it did:-(

12:26:37 [ola]

it really is true what the say. debian kicks butt :-)

12:26:49 [ola]

so easy to keep up-to-date.

12:31:19 [jim]

yeah, easy to maintain too

12:31:45 [jim]

so I should blow away the data model and reinstall?

12:33:04 [ola]

that's my suggestion.

12:37:50 [jim]

ok, then I'll do that now

12:38:34 [ola]

cool!

12:39:08 [ola]

lemme know if I can help...

12:42:47 [jim]

ok, I can get the whole oacs from the cvs?

12:44:46 [ola]

sure! first: cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@openacs.org:/cvsroot login

12:44:57 [ola]

and then enter..

12:45:10 [ola]

followed by:

12:45:11 [ola]

cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@openacs.org:/cvsroot checkout acs-core

12:45:19 [jim]

ok, I know what I got befroe

12:46:20 [ola]

you need to be nsadmin and cd to /web first, though.

12:48:35 [jim]

I was using release 4.2.0b2

12:49:09 [ola]

aha. well, it's not actually beta yet...

12:49:27 [jim]

that was from last year...

12:50:37 [ola]

the current cvs version should be *moch* better (at least on PG)...

12:50:52 [ola]

s/moch/much

12:53:30 [jim]

the core pkgs are installing now

12:53:49 [ola]

coolio!

12:54:59 [jim]

done, restartng

12:55:07 [jim]

restarted

12:55:51 [jim]

logged in

12:56:07 [ola]

the system will probably "feel" alot snappier if you only cvs co the packages you need as opposed to the hole bunch...

12:56:13 [ola]

nice.

12:57:35 [ola]

just cd into packages/ and "cvs co foo"...

13:05:31 [jim]

and that gives me package foo

13:06:04 [ola]

right

13:07:22 [ola]

...or you can do cvs update -dP if you want all packages.

13:09:41 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax (proxy@ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs

13:09:57 [ola]

hello Psychephylax!

13:10:01 [Psychephylax]

hello ola

13:11:23 [Psychephylax]

hmmm

13:12:23 [jim]

* jim is getting all packages

13:12:34 [jim]

but only installing a couple :)

13:14:18 [ola]

jim: you've got the right idea. downloading all packages is ok as long as you only install a few;-)

13:14:55 [jim]

do I need CMS for ETP?

13:15:01 [ola]

nope

13:15:29 [Psychephylax]

Gah

13:15:49 [Psychephylax]

Ok, that did not work...so I'm going to eat brakefeast...and drink motor oil har har har

13:15:52 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax needs more sleep

13:16:05 [ola]

hehehe

13:19:15 [jim]

I met the guy who did Static Pages

13:19:48 [ola]

who?

13:20:01 [jim]

Brandoch Calef

13:20:19 [jim]

he was doing unix admin at the berkeley office

13:21:07 [ola]

aha. jim, have you worked at aD?

13:21:23 [jim]

no, did a bootcamp last feb

13:23:22 [ola]

ok. on ACS 3.x I suppose...

13:23:29 [markd2]

markd2 (~markd2@r-41.162.alltel.net) has joined #openacs

13:24:22 [ola]

hey markd2!

13:25:44 [Psychephylax]

hi

13:25:58 [markd2]

greetings

13:26:00 [jim]

hi markd2

13:26:10 [jim]

did all that help?

13:26:16 [markd2]

I'm awake now :-)

13:26:57 [jim]

about the java constructors and initialization?

13:27:45 [markd2]

I think so (haven't had a chance to look closely at it the last couple of days)

13:29:18 [Psychephylax]

i can dress myself =)

13:29:25 [Psychephylax]

aren't you all proud of me?!

13:29:33 [markd2]

woo hoo!

13:29:46 [Psychephylax]

:)

13:30:17 [ola]

anyone know of a good and cheap laptop?

13:30:37 [Psychephylax]

elaborate on "cheap"

13:31:07 [markd2]

and "good" :-)

13:31:15 [ola]

well, around <$2000, I think

13:31:30 [Psychephylax]

oh

13:31:32 [Psychephylax]

easy

13:31:37 [Psychephylax]

Dell Inspiron 8100

13:31:38 [ola]

as good as it gets for the money;-)

13:32:09 [ola]

too expensive...(at least new)

13:32:15 [ola]

Is dell god?

13:32:33 [ola]

s/god/good

13:32:47 [Psychephylax]

yes

13:32:57 [jim]

they're ok, good service

13:32:57 [ola]

you have one?

13:32:58 [jim]

BUT

13:32:59 [Psychephylax]

i was going to actually purchase one for 1500

13:33:08 [jim]

get everything you want in the first order

13:33:24 [Psychephylax]

but, I got desktop parts instead since i don't really need a laptop

13:33:32 [ola]

jim: ok, I hear you:-)

13:34:01 [jim]

like, any cases, accessories, net cards, ram, extra batteries, drives

13:34:18 [Psychephylax]

i'm off to work

13:34:20 [Psychephylax]

bbl

13:34:24 [ola]

bye

13:34:43 [jim]

welp...

13:34:59 [jim]

static pages scan bombed

13:35:19 [ola]

is there an error message?

13:35:51 [jim]

no such array: static_pages

13:36:13 [jim]

(and of course it goes on and on to tell you just where it happened)

13:36:29 [ola]

hmmm...

13:36:46 [ola]

have you mounted it and general-comments?

13:37:28 [ola]

..and remember to restart the server after each new package u install...

13:37:55 [jim]

oh, maybe that was it...

13:38:00 [ola]

heh

13:38:14 [jim]

(but: there is a reload button in pkg mgr)

13:38:55 [ola]

it's unclear to me if that's really enough (th hit that link)...

13:39:03 [jim]

ahh, which doesn't work all the time

13:39:21 [ola]

what do you mean?

13:39:51 [ola]

nm

13:40:00 [ola]

:-)

13:41:58 [jim]

that reload link in the pkg mgr, supposed to reload the tcl, doesn't always work to do that

13:42:16 [jim]

but the bighammer works

13:42:25 [ola]

cool.

13:42:52 [jim]

and general comments work too now

13:43:31 [ola]

yes! yes! yes!

13:44:10 [jim]

now, lessee if those bugs are in the wp of now or no

13:46:47 [jim]

yep that one is still there

13:48:16 [jim]

new bug

13:48:28 [jim]

(but very closely related

13:49:55 [jim]

yeah, all the wp bugs I originally found, plus one more

13:50:30 [jim]

now, try to confirm/deny someone else's bug...

13:52:06 [jim]

his bug is not present (and wasn't at end of nov 2001)

13:56:45 [jim]

yeah, his bug is definitely gone

14:05:27 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Hi all. As a result of recent attacks, we're recommending you consider running your client +CE. +C prevents private CTCP to, and any replies to public CTCP from, your client. It's particularly recommended.

14:06:00 [lilo]

[Global Notice] We're also recommending +E, which disallows private messages from users who are not registered and identified. You should seriously consider registering your nick, and using an autoidentification script. Thanks.

14:12:03 [lilo]

[Global Notice] Please pass your autoidentify scripts to user 'rik'. Thanks.

14:24:24 [davb]

davb (~dave@208.136.23.203) has joined #openacs

14:24:30 [davb]

Hi everyone

14:28:40 [ola]

hello davb!

14:37:21 [davb]

argh, I forgot my nickserv password.

14:42:36 [markd2]

markd2 has quit ("Bork")

14:44:12 [ola]

davb: did you like xfce?

14:45:02 [ola]

I have sawfish-gnome and would like to try something different...

14:45:26 [ola]

any suggestions? :-)

14:48:38 [davb]

ola: YES!

14:48:46 [davb]

With or without Gnome?

14:48:53 [davb]

I don't start gnome anymore.

14:49:04 [davb]

Also Icewem is very nice.

14:49:19 [davb]

- http://www.xfce.org http://www.icewm.org

14:49:29 [davb]

debian package names are as you would expect :)

14:50:53 [davb]

I switched to xdm instead of gdm

14:51:22 [davb]

I also changed /etc/X11/default-display-manager I think :)

14:51:25 [ola]

I don't need gnome with xfce? cool!

14:52:15 [ola]

I tried icewm with gnome but I ended up with TWO icon-bars...also I didn't like it so much.

14:52:58 [davb]

Gnome is a desktop manager. Icewm and Xfce have their own. Xfce is the taskbar. xfwm is the window manager. just apt-get install xfce to get it all :)

14:53:13 [davb]

then try startxfce to run it.

14:53:32 [ola]

ok.

15:06:53 [davb]

http://www.usability.ru/toader/english/articles/forums_usability.htm

15:06:53 [chump]

A: http://www.usability.ru/toader/english/articles/forums_usability.htm from davb

15:07:02 [davb]

A:|Usability in Discussion Forums

15:07:02 [chump]

titled item A

15:07:12 [davb]

A: ideas to keep in mind for bboard after the release

15:07:13 [chump]

commented item A

15:09:24 [ola]

davb, what do you think about the threaded version of the OACS4 bboard? (I kinda like it...)

15:11:51 [davb]

ola: i ha ven't seen it, but I don't like most threaded bboards.

15:12:01 [davb]

http://www.usability.ru/toader/english/articles/forums_usability.htm

15:12:01 [chump]

B: http://www.usability.ru/toader/english/articles/forums_usability.htm from davb

15:12:05 [davb]

B:|MIME-RPC

15:12:06 [chump]

titled item B

15:12:28 [davb]

B: "Because sending simple stuff should be easy and sending complex stuff should be easy too.

15:12:29 [chump]

commented item B

15:14:07 [ola]

ok. but this might be the exception, IMHO. you should try it out...

15:14:16 [davb]

Sure I will

15:15:37 [ola]

brb

15:15:39 [ola]

ola has quit ("changing universes")

15:16:56 [ola]

ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs

15:19:27 [ola]

how do I fix so that my debian box starts in runlevel 3 instead of 5?

15:20:01 [ola]

I need to stop X in order to run startxfce...

15:20:24 [davb]

no idea.

15:20:25 [davb]

:)

15:20:29 [davb]

I just killed gdm

15:21:03 [ola]

but it will start again, won't it?

15:21:12 [davb]

I don't think so.

15:21:15 [davb]

maybe.

15:21:22 [ola]

ok.

15:21:24 [davb]

:)

15:21:45 [davb]

sorry I am not at a Linux machine so I can't check.

15:23:20 [ola]

np. thanks anyway.

15:26:12 [ola]

ola has quit ("changing universes")

15:56:37 [djg]

is there a doc on ns_cache somewhere?

16:02:45 [dlk]

dlk has quit (Connection timed out)

16:06:12 [davb]

check out http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/tcl-api.adp

16:06:25 [davb]

nothing for ns_cachse, but there is for ns_cachse_foo

16:10:36 [ola]

ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs

16:14:09 [ola]

brb

16:14:11 [ola]

ola has quit (Client Quit)

16:15:07 [markd2]

markd2 (~markd2@r-41.195.alltel.net) has joined #openacs

16:19:38 [djg]

but no ns_cache get/set

16:20:12 [davb]

weird.

16:20:17 [djg]

what is the pair here: set cached_p [ns_cache get util_memoize $script pair]

16:20:24 [djg]

that's what i dont get

16:21:16 [davb]

where is that code?

16:21:37 [djg]

acs-tcl/tcl/memoize-procs.tcl

16:21:42 [ola]

ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs

16:21:51 [davb]

ok

16:22:18 [djg]

it's not that i made that up :)

16:22:43 [davb]

heh. no. I was just wonderng :)

16:24:17 [davb]

Is nscache an AOLserver item or aD?

16:25:04 [djg]

it's most certainly an aolserver item

16:25:10 [djg]

i'll ask on the next aolserver chat

16:25:29 [djg]

it definitely is an aolserver thing

16:26:01 [davb]

It comes with the ad+13 aolserver distribution, thats why I asked.

16:26:11 [djg]

will research it more thorougly tomorrow

16:26:13 [djg]

ah that might be

16:27:00 [djg]

oh there's a bunch of hits on ad.com

16:27:08 [davb]

found one:

16:27:10 [davb]

http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/local/as23docs/html/tapi-c22.htm

16:27:11 [chump]

C: http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/local/as23docs/html/tapi-c22.htm from davb

16:27:40 [davb]

I think its too old.

16:28:52 [djg]

looks like rob did it

16:29:42 [djg]

I have written a new module, nscache, that provides a Tcl API on top of

16:29:42 [djg]

AOLserver's existing Ns_Cache C API. (This is a extensive revision of

16:29:42 [djg]

Patrick's work based on additional study of Ns_Cache.)

16:29:43 [djg]

The module provides support for three kinds of caches: global

16:29:43 [djg]

size-limited caches, global time-limited caches, and thread-private

16:29:44 [djg]

size-limited caches. In a global cache, one cache is shared by all

16:29:46 [djg]

threads, and cache values are stored as strings to prevent race

16:29:51 [djg]

conditions. In a thread-private cache, each thread gets its own private

16:29:51 [djg]

cache under the covers, and cache values are stored as Tcl objects for

16:29:52 [djg]

performance.

16:30:34 [djg]

docs are here: /home/aol331/nsssl/aolserver/nscache

16:30:36 [djg]

excellent...

16:30:41 [djg]

see you. gotta run

16:31:03 [davb]

cool.

16:31:05 [davb]

bye

16:53:56 [vinod]

vinod (~vinod@209-122-233-197.s2007.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs

16:54:07 [ola]

dave: have you figured out how to launch a program in the terminal from xfce?

16:54:12 [ola]

hi vinod!

16:54:23 [vinod]

hey ola!

16:54:40 [davb]

ola: I think I know what you mean. You mean a program that runs in a xterm?

16:55:11 [ola]

the command line for (the existing) Vi is Term vi, but it doesn't work...

16:55:13 [markd2]

hey vinod

16:55:16 [markd2]

gonna watch the keynote

16:55:19 [markd2]

see the unveiling of the iLamp!

16:55:22 [davb]

two ways. use the XFrun button. or create a new button that runs xterm -e vi

16:55:30 [davb]

it looks cool.

16:55:52 [ola]

davb: aha. great. thanks.

16:55:55 [davb]

np.

16:56:05 [vinod]

oh no, is apple doing something insanely great today?

16:56:27 [davb]

new Imac that looks like a desk lamp

16:56:35 [ola]

heh

16:59:06 [davb]

here is the link http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-8392837.html?tag=lthd

17:00:05 [vinod]

cool - thanks!

17:02:12 [davb]

I wonder when the apple stores will be them.

17:02:21 [vinod]

markd2: you gonna be an mac programmer now?

17:17:20 [markd2]

that would rule

17:17:27 [markd2]

got my Cocoa book over the weekend

17:18:22 [vinod]

cool! I did a *very* little mac programming in college

17:21:19 [rbm]

moo

17:21:27 [rbm]

* rbm sighs

17:21:32 [rbm]

My conspiracy theories were true. M$ will be not only continue do spread horror and grief on the software market, but will be on the video, TV, games, music and anything else media-related.

17:21:32 [ola]

I understand there's a place I can preview the upcoming ETP... (am I trusted? :-p)

17:21:37 [ola]

hello rbm

17:21:54 [davb]

hi rbm

17:22:21 [markd2]

my first gig at AOL was doing Mac publishing tools

17:22:27 [markd2]

before I got sucked into that webserver thing

17:22:54 [davb]

ola: hang on I think I have the link

17:22:56 [rbm]

How is it doing mac programming? All I've heard is horror stories, although not nearly as horrible as MFC stories.

17:23:20 [davb]

ola: http://demo.infiniteinfo.com/modetp/

17:23:58 [davb]

ola: I am assuming most of it will make it back to etp.

17:26:35 [Simpsophylax]

Hey

17:26:39 [Simpsophylax]

anyone willing to help me out?

17:27:46 [Simpsophylax]

* Simpsophylax jabs a pen at Dave

17:28:52 [davb]

ack

17:28:57 [Simpsophylax]

:)

17:29:18 [davb]

* davb blocks it with his binder from hell

17:30:27 [Simpsophylax]

Can you convert something for me

17:30:44 [davb]

depends. lead to gold? no.

17:31:00 [Simpsophylax]

Large gif to smaller gif

17:31:03 [ola]

the improvement in the UI is enormous...

17:32:07 [ola]

(not being sarcastic, of course)

17:32:10 [davb]

I don't really have any tools here to do that. Use Imagemagick

17:32:26 [davb]

ola: yes it is.

17:32:27 [markd2]

Raw mac programming is pretty painful, but not as bad as MFC

17:32:39 [markd2]

Cocoa (the nextstep framework ) is a real thing of beauty

17:33:08 [davb]

whats MFC so I may avoid it? :)

17:33:22 [ola]

:-)

17:33:31 [markd2]

Microsoft Foundation Classes

17:33:46 [davb]

aha. yes, just the sound of it brings fear to me heart

17:34:05 [davb]

now I know why you fear to utter the full name

17:34:13 [davb]

:)

17:36:46 [ola]

I did not now Microsoft held classes about the foundation trilogy.

17:38:04 [rbm]

MFC is M$'s "easy" GUI "toolkit" for C++.

17:38:08 [rbm]

It's a big piece of crap.

17:38:48 [ola]

s/now/know

17:38:51 [rbm]

The thing is a big hack. You try to look at the source and it's just a conglomerate of macros, globals and unintelligible lines.

17:39:06 [rbm]

Debugging? Good luck.

17:40:33 [davb]

ah, very unfun

17:52:23 [rbm]

okay. Time to go for real now.

17:52:25 [rbm]

later.

17:54:25 [davb]

lunchtime

18:16:38 [vinod]

vinod has left #openacs

18:58:15 [markd2]

markd2 has quit (Remote closed the connection)

19:14:11 [Simpsophylax]

damnation

19:15:37 [davb]

http://dsl.org/cookbook/

19:15:38 [chump]

D: http://dsl.org/cookbook/ from davb

19:15:44 [davb]

D:|The Linux Cookbook

19:15:45 [chump]

titled item D

19:18:54 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

19:24:49 [Simpsophylax]

This company gets bad grades from me, I can't download their demo

19:29:34 [davb]

that is bad. who is it?

19:30:20 [Simpsophylax]

: http://www.visibleadvantage.ca

19:30:30 [Simpsophylax]

it's a 6 meg demo

19:30:37 [Simpsophylax]

How hard can it be right?

19:31:31 [davb]

heh

19:31:55 [davb]

are your trying to download the POS advantage?

19:32:05 [davb]

:)

19:32:22 [Simpsophylax]

lol

19:32:24 [Simpsophylax]

no theo ther one

19:32:45 [davb]

Oh, just guessing based on the acronym...

19:35:13 [Simpsophylax]

i'm just going to pound the hell out of their server because it looks like it's on a 56K modem or something

19:35:42 [Simpsophylax]

i can send faster on my cable modem

19:35:44 [Simpsophylax]

That's sad

19:36:50 [ola]

which is best? window maker or icewm...?

19:36:57 [ola]

not sure I like xfce..

19:37:06 [Simpsophylax]

heh

19:37:13 [Simpsophylax]

I like XFce, then windowmaker than icewm

19:37:20 [Simpsophylax]

icewm reminds me of windows too much

19:37:56 [ola]

ok. I'll try wmaker, then. thanks!

19:38:31 [davb]

ola: try them all! :)

19:38:48 [ola]

lol

19:40:08 [Simpsophylax]

Xfce is awesome :)

19:40:32 [davb]

I like it. What about xfce don't you like ola?

19:41:29 [ola]

ther's no taskbar where I can have an overview of the apps that are open..

19:41:39 [Simpsophylax]

There is :)

19:41:46 [Simpsophylax]

left click on the desktop

19:42:14 [ola]

right click, you mean?

19:42:16 [davb]

ola: I learned that lesson. Always click on the desktop. there is cool stuff hidden in there :)

19:42:22 [davb]

nope thats the menu.

19:42:33 [Simpsophylax]

Right dave

19:42:41 [ola]

well, that's not so smooth...

19:42:42 [davb]

also alt-tab works to cycle through the open apps.

19:42:44 [Simpsophylax]

There's a KDE/Gnome menus if you want them too

19:42:48 [Simpsophylax]

yep

19:43:02 [Simpsophylax]

I always find that taskbars clutter me too much

19:43:17 [davb]

anyway try them all. With debian its a snap. apt-get install windowmanager-name, start-window-manager-command

19:43:36 [davb]

Simpsophylax: do you use the xfce thingy?

19:43:46 [Simpsophylax]

Yep

19:44:05 [Simpsophylax]

Simpsophylax is now known as Workiephylax

19:44:43 [Workiephylax]

It rocks

19:44:46 [Workiephylax]

how can I not use it?

19:45:15 [davb]

ok :)

19:47:12 [ola]

hmm.. just remebered how much I hate cluttered taskbars...;-) anyway, which one is the lightest or fastest?

19:47:47 [davb]

anything that doesn't include Gnome or enlightenment :)

19:48:02 [ola]

ok.

19:48:08 [Workiephylax]

XFCE!

19:48:10 [Workiephylax]

:)

19:48:28 [Workiephylax]

brb

19:48:31 [ola]

ok OK!

19:48:39 [ola]

:-)

19:50:03 [hazmat]

i like windowmaker for fast, light, and no frills.

19:50:48 [davb]

* davb will have to try windowmaker too...

19:51:10 [ola]

what about file managers...I use them sometimes.

19:51:15 [ola]

* ola ducks

19:51:19 [Workiephylax]

WindowMaker has a few annoyances but otherwise it's ok

19:51:22 [Workiephylax]

* Workiephylax geese

19:51:29 [Workiephylax]

ls?

19:51:41 [Workiephylax]

What more do you need

19:52:45 [davb]

heh

19:52:53 [davb]

XFTree (comes with Xfce) :)

19:52:53 [ola]

drag-and-drop..?

19:56:01 [Workiephylax]

yes

19:56:21 [davb]

ola: that is not a window manager function :)

19:57:05 [Workiephylax]

bah

19:57:11 [Workiephylax]

I killed Explorer.exe

19:57:14 [Workiephylax]

bbl

20:04:29 [markd2]

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20:09:36 [ChanServ]

[#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog

20:10:06 [Workiephylax]

I'm in XFce :)

20:10:30 [davb]

heh

20:10:33 [davb]

hi markd2

20:10:42 [Workiephylax]

but now I must go back to windows

20:15:14 [talli]

talli (~user@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs

20:15:41 [talli]

whoa. serious packedness

20:16:02 [talli]

is anyone talking though?

20:16:49 [markd2]

psychephylax is actually 13 of the 15 folks here

20:16:53 [davb]

a little

20:16:59 [talli]

:)

20:17:35 [denshi]

I'm here but not here.

20:18:03 [vinod]

vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-182.s1198.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs

20:19:27 [davb]

hi vinod

20:19:58 [vinod]

hey davb!

20:20:02 [vinod]

thanks for the new years present ;-)

20:20:17 [davb]

np.

20:20:21 [davb]

you are very welcome.

20:20:24 [davb]

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TheSourceCodeIsTheDesign

20:20:25 [chump]

E: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TheSourceCodeIsTheDesign from davb

20:20:32 [davb]

E:|The Source Code is the Design

20:20:33 [chump]

titled item E

20:20:40 [davb]

E: very interesting reading

20:20:41 [chump]

commented item E

20:21:02 [Workiephylax]

lol

20:21:06 [Workiephylax]

I'm not 13

20:21:07 [Workiephylax]

just 2

20:21:15 [markd2]

well, 2 and a half

20:22:11 [talli]

davb: that's a nice article.

20:22:21 [talli]

but the wiki sure sucks. wish they just had general comments

20:22:31 [Workiephylax]

Half?

20:22:32 [davb]

Well its just a different way to look at it.

20:22:48 [davb]

the wiki, not the half :)

20:22:59 [Workiephylax]

Anyone ever had to do a kiosk type deployment?

20:23:02 [davb]

I am zipping all around and probably missing half of it.

20:23:06 [Workiephylax]

I need to lock down a browser somehow

20:23:44 [Workiephylax]

D'oh! I was in the city on Friday, I should have visited talli :-D

20:24:11 [davb]

grab the mozilla source and hack it.

20:24:24 [talli]

d'oh! Psychephylax was in the city friday. i should have gotten the hell out of it. :(

20:24:31 [vinod]

i was there too!

20:24:42 [talli]

vinod: i will see you in the tundra

20:24:51 [vinod]

i hunted everywhere for talli but he kept evading me ;-)

20:24:58 [vinod]

The FROZEN TUNDRA!!!!

20:25:05 [vinod]

the game was awesome

20:25:16 [talli]

yes, well they won. i would assume it was awesome

20:25:17 [Workiephylax]

wth

20:25:20 [vinod]

it was like 35 and no wind, no rain, so it didn't get too cold

20:25:39 [talli]

favre's record in home playoffs and cold weather means nothing to us

20:25:42 [talli]

we will prevail!

20:26:17 [vinod]

haha - bold talk. owens will take one look at the field and take his dancin back to the lockerroom ;-)

20:27:24 [talli]

maybe. but i think it will be more likely that GB will ask reggie white to return and bless them because they will be soon be eaten by those more powerful than they

20:27:52 [vinod]

haha

20:27:56 [talli]

btw, vinod, did reggie mention south asians when he enlighted the wisconsin legislature? what was your talent?

20:28:18 [vinod]

i think we got lumped in with the regular asians - you know industrious and smart, but geeky

20:28:34 [talli]

right. "make a television out of a wristwatch!"

20:28:38 [vinod]

football players should not be allowed to talk in public

20:28:43 [vinod]

lol

20:28:47 [Workiephylax]

heh

20:29:03 [talli]

religiously fanatical football players for sure should not speak in public, let alone in front of congress

20:29:34 [Workiephylax]

anyone use Citrix around here?

20:29:57 [vinod]

Workiephylax: never heard of it

20:30:02 [Workiephylax]

heh

20:30:09 [Workiephylax]

it's like Remote Terminal Serve stuff

20:30:54 [denshi]

everytime I hear the word "Citrix" I reach for my orange juice.

20:32:54 [talli]

denshi: how long did it take you to port the acs psets for 3.x?

20:34:30 [denshi]

uhh... like no time at all, I think.

20:34:58 [denshi]

No, wait, I was just learning the ACS back then, so there was some substatial time investment in actually *doing* the psets as I ported them.

20:37:55 [denshi]

I should touch those up and kick out 3 & 4 -- I think PG 7.1 came out like a year after I wrote them, so there are a few disingenious lines. Plus the installation help and docs have come a long way since summer '00.

20:39:44 [talli]

denshi: might you consider worknig on the 4.x psets instead of finishing the 3.x ones?

20:43:28 [talli]

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20:44:08 [talilee]

talilee (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs

20:45:48 [Workiephylax]

What browsers are opensource?

20:46:12 [markd2]

mozilla

20:46:15 [markd2]

konquerer

20:46:16 [ola]

lynx m

20:46:18 [markd2]

lynx

20:46:23 [Workiephylax]

mozilla sounds good

20:56:20 [denshi]

talli: love to, babe, but I haven't cut the shrinkwrap on my copy of 4.x.

20:57:00 [denshi]

more substantially, work is really far away from oacs-land, so I haven't spent much time on it lately. :(.

20:57:04 [davb]

argh, power went out at home

20:57:54 [denshi]

BTW: I just got the cost estimates for DVD dups from my producer; does anyone remember how much of the ad-uni stuff there was to duplicate?? Was it something like 75 hours of film?

20:58:42 [davb]

275

20:59:25 [denshi]

<i>ungh!</i>

20:59:26 [markd2]

I think that includes them getting the hard drive

20:59:43 [markd2]

you can send in your own hard drive, and cover the cost of mailing

21:00:12 [denshi]

hard drive, schmard drive. I'm not cutting DVDs from real video stock.

21:00:24 [denshi]

I need source material.

21:00:26 [talilee]

how big a hard drive holds 275 hours of film?

21:00:37 [davb]

80 gig they said.

21:00:50 [talilee]

hmm.. neat

21:02:10 [Workiephylax]

:-/

21:02:25 [Workiephylax]

i can just download that stuff

21:02:52 [davb]

they have a limited bandwidth. it would take a looong time to download.

21:03:09 [Workiephylax]

how limited?

21:03:17 [davb]

I am not sure...

21:03:37 [talilee]

people see the new imac?

21:03:40 [denshi]

anyway, if you neglect the one-time master authoring charges, I can farm out DVD dups for $4 per disc. So assuming 9 hours of video per disc, the set could cost $120 per.

21:03:42 [talilee]

it's a reallll beaut

21:04:05 [davb]

talli: the imac is cool.

21:04:16 [markd2]

yeah

21:04:21 [davb]

Thats not too bad. its alot of video.

21:04:28 [markd2]

processor, memory, hard drive, and sooper drive all in that cantelope

21:04:36 [talilee]

the processor is a monster

21:04:42 [talilee]

800 mhz g4? woof

21:05:25 [markd2]

the range of motion on that screen is amazing

21:05:37 [markd2]

swing it over so the guy in the next cube can look at something

21:05:40 [talilee]

whoa

21:05:54 [talilee]

those industrial design guys they have a geniuses

21:06:11 [denshi]

Someone could decide on key lectures or sections, or at the very least trim out some dead time. I thought I could make the set for $40, but that would be some severe editing. Of course, that'd still be 75 hours...

21:06:24 [davb]

cool its on the home page.

21:06:29 [davb]

the new imac

21:06:49 [talilee]

yeah

21:07:21 [davb]

denshi: an 80 gig drive is around what $200?

21:08:09 [denshi]

I bought a 60 gig IDE drive last weekend for $95.

21:08:35 [davb]

woah. Anyway, how about a DVD-ROM set of the realvideo?

21:08:46 [vinod]

the imac has DVD-RW, too?

21:08:47 [davb]

or is that what you were talking about?

21:08:52 [markd2]

yeah

21:09:01 [vinod]

i want one!

21:09:10 [denshi]

ugh.

21:11:32 [Workiephylax]

* Workiephylax wanders over to the apple site to look

21:11:46 [denshi]

this whole ad-uni thing is a bit of a service to others... I'm not personally interested anymore, since I will be back in school this summer and sweating my profs for my money's worth-- who needs videos?

21:12:04 [talilee]

jsut got the new PG book: practical postgresql

21:12:18 [davb]

cool.

21:12:50 [Workiephylax]

Droolie droolie...I want me one of those too

21:13:00 [davb]

Workiephylax: and it runs BSD!

21:13:21 [davb]

:)

21:13:42 [Workiephylax]

I know!

21:14:40 [chump]

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21:15:15 [vinod]

looks like everyone's trying to buy one at once. i keep gettin server errors at store.apple.com

21:15:23 [Workiephylax]

lol

21:15:51 [Workiephylax]

they even crashed chump

21:16:48 [davb]

nope, power went out...

21:16:54 [Workiephylax]

hehehehe

21:17:08 [Workiephylax]

* Workiephylax thwaps© Dave for not having a UPS

21:17:11 [vinod]

doh. is it snowin in your part of the world, davb?

21:17:16 [davb]

I have one, its in the back out the car :)

21:17:23 [davb]

snow, yes about a foot.

21:17:23 [talilee]

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21:17:35 [Workiephylax]

Well how the hell is it supposed to work from the back of your car!?

21:18:02 [davb]

very little I suspect :(

21:18:15 [markd2]

* markd2 suggests an extension cord

21:18:18 [davb]

heh

21:19:31 [vinod]

or put the computer in the car

21:20:01 [markd2]

wireless!

21:20:14 [denshi]

how large of a UPS are we talking? Will it power the car?

21:20:20 [vinod]

haha

21:20:29 [davb]

heh, not quite. Its very small and old.

21:20:33 [talli]

talli (~user@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs

21:20:34 [vinod]

the car?

21:20:37 [markd2]

or at least power one of those big brown trucks

21:20:37 [davb]

I am just to lazy to more it.

21:20:56 [Workiephylax]

* Workiephylax thwaps© Dave for not thinking right

21:20:56 [Workiephylax]

anyone know where I can find some AVI files?

21:20:58 [vinod]

* vinod is getting overloaded with puns

21:21:51 [Workiephylax]

LOL

21:23:12 [davb]

vinod: new ibook too.

21:23:14 [davb]

gotta go.

21:23:20 [davb]

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21:26:42 [denshi]

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21:35:17 [denshi]

denshi (~chatzilla@adsl-216-62-223-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

21:35:30 [denshi]

frickin' mac crashed

21:37:13 [denshi]

I think I've figured out how the MacOS TCP/IP stack works-- there's a "lock entire OS" op on each SYN_WAIT state.

21:37:33 [denshi]

....at least it behaves that way.

21:37:56 [denshi]

talli: psets? What do you have in mind for 4.x?

21:41:38 [denshi]

http://www.paulgraham.com/fix.html

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21:51:59 [markd2]

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22:08:41 [talli]

denshi: sorry, gimme a second

22:21:41 [talli]

denshi: rbm has a better idea than i what should be in the psets, but i think that the basic idea is to make the v4 psets available much the same way you made them available for PG

22:23:59 [talli]

looking at pset1 this seems reasonably easy since it's just an intro to aolserver, tcl and oracle. i think that psql can be replaced with sql*plus reasonably easily

22:24:56 [talli]

pset2 and pset5, though, are pretty heavily oracle oriented

22:25:55 [talli]

the nice thing about the psets, though, is that i guess they throw you more or less into the fire. so they don't do too much handholding. just saying PG rather than ORacle in certain places may be enough

22:26:57 [denshi]

but as for pset5, we have several postgres tree solutions, so it's not too hard to work that over. But I'd add in a chunk of Celko explaining some SQL tree theory via adjacency lists.

22:30:54 [talli]

denshi: do you know where the acs v4 psets are? they have them both at aD.com and at philip's site

22:32:27 [talli]

part of the problem is that there are links to certain socs that don't really exist. that shouldn't be your responsiblity. leave that to the editors and proofers.

22:32:35 [talli]

that is, if you want to accept the pset gig :)

22:42:28 [denshi]

hang on.... a burst of editing just came in my door.

23:02:34 [talli]

denshi: where do you work now?

23:05:17 [talli]

and why did you build ns_ruby? (a genuine inquiry as to why your interest in ruby)

23:31:10 [talli]

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23:58:30 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax has quit (Remote closed the connection)