00:00:23 VooDoo27 (~tevaram@205-MADR-X22.libre.retevision.es) has joined #openacs 00:00:58 VooDoo27 has left #openacs 00:13:22 djg has left #openacs 00:45:17 docwolf (~docwolf@sdn-ar-002flflauP179.dialsprint.net) has joined #openacs 00:46:15 hello doc 00:46:24 howdy! 00:46:51 hey hazmat, are you the python dude? 00:46:58 fyi re python and yahoo, python is used at yahoo for yahoo mail, yahoo maps, and yahoo groups, at least that i know of. 00:47:00 yup. 00:47:07 sweet 00:47:13 any idea what web server they're using? 00:47:14 not sure about *the* dude, but i'm a python person. 00:47:20 for yahoo groups? 00:47:28 yep 00:47:31 for any of the services 00:47:45 yahoo has a large collection of different systems in use. 00:47:51 most likely a-patchy 00:48:33 just wondering... 'cause i'm looking for anyone who has built a large system with python/aolservere 00:48:38 yahoo groups runs (at least when it was egroups) on a async framework with coroutines written in python. its freely downloadable from www.nightmare.com (medusa is the name) 00:49:02 cool 00:49:02 docwolf: aolsevere? :) 00:49:05 minus the coroutine part the same engine is used by zope, and the core of it is in the python std library. 00:49:25 modules asyncore, asynchat. 00:50:09 although if you're really interested in scalable async frameworks, twistedmatrix.com is probably a better choice. 00:50:22 +qualifier: for python 00:51:09 as for python and aolserver, there are a couple of production systems out there. i was working on a site with it, but i ... 00:52:12 ..(waiting with baited breath to hear about hazmat's experience...) 00:52:13 gave up on it because it doesn't seem to have the number of users and developers that i felt comfortable with (many other reasons besides related to the specific application). its fairly stable. 00:52:48 ok. cool. i'm not sure that i necessarily need a "popular" platform, i just need something that works well 00:52:58 for documentation on the api, its basically consulting the c api docs for aolserver and the swig file. 00:52:58 and can get up 7 running fast 00:53:16 because i'm not planning to have a huge team of monkeys work on this thing... it's just 1-2 people. 00:53:28 i've got some assorted examples of various things if you're interested (and can be hired for more:-) 00:53:37 cool! bring it on... 00:53:42 mainly integration with acs templating, checking mail, etc. 00:53:46 whats your email addr? 00:53:54 afarkas@wolfwater.com 00:54:55 another thing to check out is webware.sf.net which is a python framework reminiscent of java servlets which can run in aolserver. 00:56:07 cool 00:56:46 one comment before i send the files, there isn't really any docs so i would regard them as a grab bag at best. 00:57:21 no problemo. 00:58:44 if you're just trying to run aolserver and python without the acs, things are a alot easier... (esp. the tailing the logfile:) 00:58:57 heh. yeah, we'd probably not use ACS. 00:59:11 we are going to try to stuff as much as we can into postgres. 01:04:33 docwolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:05:01 docwolf (~docwolf@sdn-ar-002flflauP179.dialsprint.net) has joined #openacs 01:06:13 wb 01:11:33 docwolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:41:36 docwolf (~docwolf@sdn-ar-002flflauP179.dialsprint.net) has joined #openacs 01:42:33 docwolf: email away. 01:43:03 sweet! 01:43:32 i also included a soap example. 01:43:32 thanks! 01:43:44 sure. i hope its useful. 01:43:50 probably not :-) 01:45:43 very cool! i appreciate it 01:46:40 ugh.. i just realize i left my mail passwd in the tarball, doh.. 01:47:06 hehe. i'll be gentle :-) 01:47:12 i did that oce 01:47:14 once 01:47:24 at aD.. when i was writing documentation for an oracle install 01:47:28 highly embarrassing. 01:47:48 seriously, i'll delete the tarball. 01:48:06 well hopefully this won't recieve as wide a distribution :-) 01:48:13 hehe 01:48:17 thanks, i'll send another tarball now. 01:48:20 cool 01:48:28 deleted 01:50:30 email sent 01:50:44 received. cool! 01:51:59 enjoy, where you planning on using the aolserver pg adaptors or another python pg adaptor? 01:52:20 no clue; we'll let Rolf the Programmer handle those details :-) 01:53:11 if you're going with a python pg adaptor, i highly recommend the pypgsql.sf.net adaptor, it wraps most of libpq and is actively developed. the one included with pg sucks imo. there are other nice adaptors as well but most don't do a complete wrap of libpq. 01:53:37 cool. thanks. if rolf goes ahead with this, i'm sure he'll be in touch :-) 01:53:48 hazmat: I assume that's Python DB API 2.0-compliant? 01:53:57 yes it is. 01:54:24 hazmat: Ah, nice. I remember when I looked at psycopg, and popy, both seems rather weak to me. 01:54:53 s/seem/seemed/ 01:56:14 popy is weak and not really actively developed anymore. psycopg is nice now (very active dev) but it makes some assumptions wrt to client access that aren't appropiate for all situations (its really designed to be used in zope and other multithreaded apps) as it tries to handle connection pooling implicitly, although it does have a very nice type conversion system, if you're using custom pg types. 01:57:46 good to know 01:58:19 * hazmat returns to his kde3.0 compilation 02:03:48 docwolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:19:13 Spork (~syslogd@ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs 02:19:20 yeah baby yeah! 02:20:21 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 02:20:25 hi. 02:20:53 * davb reinstalls debian 02:21:59 :) 02:22:05 I'm happy with Mandrake 02:24:54 fun 02:27:09 heh 02:27:59 I must resist the temptation to boot into Windows for 3 weeks 02:28:09 I also must get into the habit of going to the gym for 3 weeks 02:28:26 excellent goals. 02:28:37 yes 02:28:51 The brunch at IHOP really helps my second goal 02:37:02 great. 02:37:08 any debian folk about? 02:41:28 hey davb! 02:42:25 hazmat has left #openacs 02:42:26 hi vinod! 02:42:50 so i take it postgres never came back? 02:42:55 I installed a basic debian. Now I want an Xserver etc... 02:43:02 nope. 02:43:10 doh! 02:43:14 Actually everything was broken. I backed up some files. 02:43:21 and DL the debian CDs 02:43:28 cool - it's always nice to start from scratch 02:43:31 yes. 02:43:46 Last time I used Progeny Debian, and it installed Gnome and everything for me. 02:44:15 I am trying to figure out which packages I should get. What window manager does everyone like? 02:45:00 i use icewm - it's really configurable and i've got it set up just the way i like it. i don't use a desktop manager 02:45:12 ah. 02:45:21 altho i tried kde on a friends machine and it seemed pretty nice 02:46:50 thanks. 02:48:16 sure... i think this is the link that convinced me to use icewm way back when - http://ice.dammit.lt/~mgedmin/icewm/index-en.html 02:49:02 vinod: its probably more convincing in a graphical browser :) 02:49:09 lol 02:49:14 oops - yeah, probably 02:49:23 is rbm around? what is the epic4-script package you recommened? 02:49:43 i use epic4-light (on rbm's rec) 02:49:49 aha thanks. 02:52:02 np 02:53:42 I think I will go to kernel 2.4.whatever 02:56:24 i'm using 2.4.17 on my sid machine and it seems to be fine 02:56:48 do you use a firewall script? 02:58:40 no, i just restrict just about everything since I'm on dialup and i never need to access my machine from outside 02:58:45 aha. 02:59:00 darn. I need to find a good one. I should fine one that works with the new stuff in 2.4 02:59:54 yeah, i need to get familiar with that too at some point 03:00:04 Hey it's vinod 03:00:25 hey Spork 03:04:47 :) 03:04:54 * Spork is enjoying his Twilight zone episodes 03:05:04 cool. 03:05:43 i love this show 03:08:28 "imagine if you will... " 03:08:54 that guy always creeped me out when i was a kid 03:16:17 I will attempt to install Ximian Gnome on this system. should be exciting! 03:18:53 anyone know offhand the truetype font servers name? 03:21:25 nope 03:21:50 i think the font server is built into XF4 now, so you just need to specify the path to the fonts in the Files section 03:22:00 I think you are correct. cool. 03:22:53 I only use the Microsoft web fonts in truetype anyway :) 03:23:15 yeah, me too 03:24:09 vinod: BTW I really am sending out the CDs of the lectures :) 03:24:56 brb 03:24:58 davb has quit ("ircII EPIC4pre2.508 -- Accept no limitations") 03:25:11 davb (dave@alb-24-58-162-46.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs 03:25:19 ah color (epic4-light) 03:25:33 haha - no problem. i wasn't expecting your production and distribution systems to be running at top speed yet ;-) 03:25:43 talli (~talli@188.muka.lasv.snfccafj.dsl.att.net) has joined #openacs 03:25:52 Actually I have a 16x cdrecorder now, twice as fast :) 03:26:46 cool! 03:27:28 how is Ximian? 03:27:40 hey talli! 03:29:36 I am finding out now :) 03:30:06 if you don't pay they restrict your download speed 03:30:14 hi talli 03:30:46 luckily there really wasn't alot of value on my system. all my work has been on OpenACS 4 and that all lives at openacs.org 03:30:58 and my email is IMAP all on the mail server. 03:31:00 interesting 03:32:24 you can join their red-carpet service and your system is supposed to go and get the updates for you. 03:32:39 of course, you can always just type apt-get upgrade instead :) 03:33:04 haha - make your own red carpet 03:33:41 hey 03:33:48 cool. they have instructions on how to make a ximian gnome install cd right on their web site. 03:35:23 btw ximian gnome is apt-gettable 03:35:50 so i suppose download speed can't be restricted there, right? 03:36:16 yes :) you have to add their server to your sources.list 03:36:45 ahhh - they got their bases covered :-) 03:41:30 argh, its broken. 03:42:23 vinod usually is broken 03:43:35 and despite that i work better than talli ;-) 03:43:58 It has to configure guile1.4-slib and gnucash otherwise the other 100 packages it installed won't work?? 03:43:59 hope you enjoyed your new year talli - is the headache gone yet? 03:44:42 davb: are you installing via apt-get upgrade? 03:45:32 ok 03:45:34 dunno. went to sleep at 10 pm :) 03:45:51 this might be dumb but which command can I use to sort the output of ls by the 5th column? 03:45:55 it's sed or awk I think 03:46:02 no party party for me 03:47:22 vinod: no. I did apt-get install task-ximian-gnome which went and got a whole pile of special ximian packages. 03:47:24 talli: sorry to hear that :( my night was pretty low key as well 03:48:21 anyone have a file /usr/share/guile/slib/require.scm? 03:48:25 davb: sometimes you can use the flag --fix-missing and it will try to install any packages which don't depend on the broken packages 03:49:49 davb: nope 03:50:10 argh. 03:50:14 the file exists. 03:50:25 it says it can't find it anyway. 03:57:34 wow! 03:57:54 apt could not set it up. I did dpkg --configure guile1.4-slib and it worked! 03:58:38 weird. 04:01:15 oops: No screens found when I did startx 04:11:13 ok that was also weird. 04:11:30 I reconfigured the X server and it gave me more options to select from. 04:12:48 cool, it seems to be working 04:13:27 nice... that is weird that it didn't offer to configure it for you on the initial install 04:15:08 It is sort of working, the mouse keeps locking up... 04:32:33 Spork: i think you can use awk to do that (with some effort), but ls also has a --sort option 04:33:23 You're about 45 min late with that :) 04:33:27 I figured the -sort way 04:33:49 heh - sorry. i won't answer anymore ?'s 04:33:53 I am definitely having a mouse problem. 04:34:16 surprisingly I have never had a Linux mouse problem before :) 04:34:41 hmm... it works for a while and then locks up? 04:34:44 vinod: do you install postgresl from source? 04:34:50 yup 04:34:53 it gets "stuck" then springs back. 04:35:06 bah! 04:35:11 Ok. I think it is probably best. For OpenACS you need to keep up. 04:35:11 * Spork pokes vinod with a carrot 04:35:27 is 2.4.17 the latest? 04:35:48 carrot? markd gets cookies and i get carrots? ;-) 04:35:53 davb: i think so 04:35:57 ok thanks! 04:36:06 vinod: be thankful you get anything at all. 04:38:07 what device should a PS2 mouse be? 04:38:11 * vinod is thankful for his carrot (but grumbles behind everyone's backs) 04:38:17 i think /dev/psaux 04:38:23 ok. 04:38:40 vinod: mark is a regular hacker. thats why he gets junk food. you are a doctor :) 04:38:49 haha 04:39:22 i knew med school was a bad idea 04:39:26 * davb checks the email he missed while dorking around reinstalling linux 04:41:28 vinod: thanks for the PG advice :) 04:41:50 also that is one nice thing about the Postgresql debian package. It sets up a cron job to vacuum. 04:42:41 sure - wish it had helped :-) 04:43:08 does it just run 'vacuumdb nightly'? 04:45:40 I think so. 04:46:10 vinod: really I am happy, hopefully I can build the system in an organized way this time :) 04:48:51 cool - I should probably do that myself, too, but I'm too lazy at the moment :-) 04:48:53 is OACS gonna have a debian package? 04:49:05 I suspect so. 04:49:17 there is a OpenACS 3 debian package. 04:49:54 argh 04:49:56 i think rbm's working on taking over the aolserver package and creating an openacs4 package 04:50:01 whats the package name of OpenSSH? 04:50:50 aha, its just ssh 04:50:53 tricky :) 04:50:54 20:25:54 vinod: I'm trying to have OpenACS 4 packages available on Debian 04:51:08 that was yesterday 04:56:00 cool. 04:56:14 ssh emails you to say "hey you have telnetd" you might want to get rid of it. 05:11:43 What's everyone's new Year's resolution? 05:18:12 to compile a new kernel? 05:18:18 bbl 05:18:19 davb has quit ("changing universes") 05:27:39 vinod has quit ("changing universes") 05:40:52 moo 05:44:11 hey 05:44:36 hey talli 05:45:17 I got an e-mail back from Brent Fulgham (Debian AOLserver packages maintainer). It looks like I'll be taking over the AOLserver packages sometime next week. 05:45:30 That's nice because I'll create openacs-4 packages too. 05:45:47 nice. that will be great 05:46:00 it will be sweet to do an apt-get openacs-4 05:46:01 I'm excited. 05:46:13 is it hard to build an debian package? 05:46:43 I don't know all of the details yet, but it doesn't look like it. 05:46:56 cool 05:47:34 if you have a deb-src line in your /etc/apt/sources.list, you could do "apt-get source aolserver" to download the source package for example (and take a look at it) 06:04:50 ok rbm, i gotta get to bed to fight off this cold 06:05:00 hope you have a good eve, and happy new year! 06:05:12 the same to the rest of you 06:05:15 especially chump and loggy! 06:05:24 talli has quit ("See ya!") 11:38:52 rbm has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:38:52 beattiek has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:38:52 chump has quit (forward.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 11:44:16 rbm (~rmello@fslc.ser.usu.edu) has joined #OpenACS 11:44:16 beattiek (~beattiek@bmhd25b1y14ha.bc.hsia.telus.net) has joined #OpenACS 11:44:16 chump (~chump@alb-24-58-160-41.nycap.rr.com) has joined #OpenACS 11:44:20 [#OpenACS] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 11:56:16 rbm has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:48:26 davb (~dave@208.136.23.203) has joined #openacs 14:12:12 markd2 (~Snak@r-41.19.alltel.net) has joined #openacs 14:20:58 hi markd2 14:21:03 greetings 14:21:16 happy artificical demarcation of the passing of time! 14:21:18 * markd2 celebrates 14:22:04 woohoo! 14:22:45 * Spork joins in 14:23:13 * markd2 sporks Thwap� 14:23:16 or something like that 14:23:20 ouch 14:35:40 http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/1012 14:35:41 A: http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/1012 from davb 14:35:49 A:|You'll shoot your iBook out! 14:35:50 titled item A 14:36:19 A: article is not as good as the title :) 14:36:19 commented item A 14:42:27 vinod (~vinod@209-122-233-200.s2010.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs 14:43:46 Vinod! 14:44:00 markd2! 14:44:07 how are you! 14:44:09 Merry xmoose and happy new year! 14:44:12 * markd2 got a lot of !'s for xmoose 14:44:16 thanks! 14:44:29 I'm doing well, thanks :-) 14:44:45 how's the groundhog doing? 14:44:50 good morning vinod. 14:44:55 he's all fed now 14:45:02 and we spent the last 4 or so days doing *nothing* 14:45:05 it was wonderful 14:45:11 mornin davb! 14:45:27 excellent - my kind of vacation 14:48:14 http://www.linuxguruz.org/iptables/ 14:48:15 B: http://www.linuxguruz.org/iptables/ from davb 14:48:44 B:|IPTables firewall info 14:48:45 titled item B 14:49:34 cool - did you find a useful script there? 14:50:30 There are alot. I am looking :) 14:51:11 I liked pmfirewall because it asks questions, then sets up the scripts. 15:09:47 bah 15:10:49 * markd2 humbugs 15:11:09 :-/ 15:12:57 I guess I must do work now 15:33:35 Mark, what are your new year's resolutions? 15:37:58 1024/768 15:38:10 outside of that, to get a job 15:38:32 1024/768? 15:38:48 Oh 15:38:54 Geebus 15:39:05 :-) 15:39:19 heh 15:39:36 took a minute...slow morning. 15:40:21 haha - i must be even slower. markd2's a funny guy :-) 15:40:45 Indeed he is 15:41:00 methinks he should be a stand up cominc 15:41:03 comic 15:41:19 I clam up in front of crowds 15:41:56 http://www.twistedmatrix.com/page.epy/whatis.html 15:41:56 C: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/page.epy/whatis.html from davb 15:42:06 yeah, it wouldn't work in the stand-up setting. tell a joke. wait 2 minutes for everyone to get it. tell next joke ;-) 15:42:21 C:|Twisted - framework for web applications in Python 15:42:21 titled item C 15:42:41 although Steven Wright did that 15:42:42 C: includes web server, mail server, relations database interface, irc chat server etc... 15:42:43 commented item C 15:42:46 so maybe there's hope 15:42:54 true! 15:42:55 C: AaronSw might like this 15:42:55 commented item C 15:43:14 I want to pick up Lord of the Rings book 15:43:29 Psychephylax: walk outside, they are everywhere!! 15:43:31 i'm reading fellowship of the rings right now 15:43:40 Psychephylax: you might want to borrow them from the library... 15:43:46 how come 15:43:48 I am almost finished with Two Towers. 15:43:51 i doubt they're there 15:43:56 just read the movie 15:44:03 Psychephylax: depends on if you REALLY want to keep them or now. 15:44:05 haha 15:44:06 iread the movie 15:44:20 I don't want to wait a year to read the second one 15:44:31 and then another year to read the 3rd one 15:44:59 it might take me a year to read these damn books 15:45:06 * vinod is a slow reader 15:45:15 vinod: those books are a slow read. 15:45:38 http://www.ugo.com/channels/filmtv/features/middleearthguide/ 15:45:39 D: http://www.ugo.com/channels/filmtv/features/middleearthguide/ from davb 15:45:42 yeah - i think i'm too used to the harry potter style of writing (don't need to think) 15:45:47 D:|Underground guide to middle earth 15:45:48 titled item D 15:46:27 D:including [The Council of Elrond as told by Kevin Smith | http://www.ugo.com/channels/filmtv/features/middleearthguide/retold_council.asp] 15:46:27 commented item D 15:50:05 my mind glazes over with highly detailed fiction 15:50:22 although I don't have much of a problem with the highly detailed fiction known as 'software' 15:50:51 lol 15:59:23 ewww 15:59:27 real vi is hard to use 16:16:01 mapquest uses aolserver? 16:16:26 really? 16:16:29 That's pretty cool 16:18:14 vim 16:18:17 elvis 16:18:18 etc... 16:18:48 markd2: interesting 16:18:50 The site mapquest.com is running AOLserver/3.4pre1 on Solaris 16:20:27 Dave, what's your new year's resolution? 16:20:35 same as markd2's 16:20:44 * markd2 monitors davb 16:20:59 Although I saw a NEC 17" LCD for $649 16:21:11 that runs 1280x1024 16:21:57 Psychephylax: really, I would say I need to exercise more (at all) and go back to school. 16:23:54 first I have to get going and finish albegra and get to calculus. 16:26:10 ugh. calculus 16:26:17 hated that class(es) 16:26:24 took each one in the calculus series twice 16:26:50 poor instructors 16:27:05 pretty much a different one for each class 16:27:07 I took calculus in high school and learned nothing. 16:27:16 there's a lot of memorization involved, which I just don't do well 16:27:22 I took it again in college and really understood it. 16:27:43 I don't recall that part. All I know is I didn;t read, or even own the book and I still learned it :) 16:27:54 Of course, now I forgot it all :( 16:28:33 I think somehow there has to be a way to teach the concepts earlier. It explains how all the other math stuff works (as least for me) 16:28:46 http://www.rons.net.cn/english/FSM/vim 16:28:46 E: http://www.rons.net.cn/english/FSM/vim from davb 16:28:54