IRC log of openacs on 2001-12-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:07:59 [davb]

davb has changed the topic to: Open? Free Web Toolkit

00:08:19 [davb]

davb has changed the topic to: Open?ACS | Free Web Toolkit | http://openacs.org

00:08:26 [beattiek]

hey dave.

00:13:11 [rbm]

rbm (rmello@fslc.ser.usu.edu) has joined #openacs

00:13:17 [beattiek]

hey rbm

00:14:43 [beattiek]

pfffift.

00:17:32 [beattiek]

dave, the title suggests we are reconsidering OACS being open, not being OCS

00:17:42 [beattiek]

not that it matters...

00:19:44 [rbm]

moo

00:19:59 [rbm]

looks like I was just disconnected again

00:28:15 [davb]

:)

00:28:38 [rbm]

dave!

00:29:58 [beattiek]

you are both far too talkative.

00:30:12 [beattiek]

;)

00:30:29 [rbm]

* rbm twacks beattiek for being too quiet

00:30:44 [rbm]

anyone here play Quake3?

00:30:49 [beattiek]

hehe

00:30:54 [beattiek]

i'm not that cool :P

00:31:15 [beattiek]

I stoped gaming when i switched to linux.

00:31:38 [rbm]

beattiek: Why?

00:31:53 [beattiek]

I have some goals i want to acomplish.

00:31:58 [rbm]

I have Quake 3, SimCity 3000, Descent 3, Myth 2, all for Linux

00:32:01 [beattiek]

then i might start gaming again

00:32:19 [beattiek]

alpha centuari is my favorite linux game

00:32:41 [davb]

nifty.

00:32:46 [beattiek]

:)

00:33:04 [rbm]

Never played alpha centaury

00:33:48 [beattiek]

dave, i never know if your being sarcastic... Let me rephrase that. You always seem sarcastic, but i know you dont always mean it.

00:34:00 [beattiek]

you remind me of my friend, sarcasm.

00:34:45 [davb]

I will try to be a little more clear. I think that was in reply to rbm. I should direct my comments. :)

00:34:57 [beattiek]

hehe

00:35:02 [beattiek]

i'm just eing a geek

00:35:40 [davb]

ok.

00:35:52 [beattiek]

rbm: Alpha centuari is a civ 2ish space game.

00:35:58 [beattiek]

i guess you know that.

00:36:28 [beattiek]

it's realy advanced compared to civ 2, and it has realy cool cencepts.

00:38:26 [beattiek]

what is the point of proc_doc?

00:38:34 [rbm]

A procedure with documentation

00:38:42 [rbm]

ad_proc does it better I think.

00:38:51 [beattiek]

hmm.

00:38:55 [beattiek]

i'm still unclear

00:39:09 [beattiek]

it's used for documenting procedures right?

00:39:59 [davb]

you use it instead of proc procname

00:40:08 [davb]

it actually creates the proc and documents it.

00:40:18 [beattiek]

hmm.

00:40:39 [rbm]

beattiek: Are you looking at OpenACS 3.2.5

00:40:46 [rbm]

s/$/?/

00:41:06 [beattiek]

no, looking through the tcl guide. prolly about OACS 3.2

00:41:58 [rbm]

Tcl Guide? On AOLserver.com?

00:42:04 [beattiek]

no

00:42:09 [beattiek]

web nerds

00:43:00 [rbm]

That's not the Tcl guide. That's Tcl For Web Nerds.

00:43:06 [beattiek]

yeah

00:43:11 [beattiek]

thats what i was refering to.

00:43:19 [beattiek]

*sigh*

00:43:23 [beattiek]

sometimes i am unclear.

00:43:29 [rbm]

How long does UPS ground take to deliver something

00:43:40 [davb]

depends on how far it has to go.

00:43:48 [rbm]

in average?

00:43:51 [davb]

and how close you are to the service center.

00:43:57 [davb]

5 days coast to coast.

00:44:26 [rbm]

oh good

01:03:26 [rbm]

brb

02:27:36 [Psychephylax]

bah

02:27:39 [Psychephylax]

:-/

02:28:06 [Psychephylax]

My linux install won't let me update it

02:44:40 [rbm]

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03:03:28 [rbm]

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04:06:15 [Spork]

Spork (~syslogd@ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs

04:06:33 [Spork]

:-)

04:06:38 [Spork]

Woooohooo

04:06:42 [Spork]

* Spork kicks dave from joy

04:07:58 [davb]

apparently you got it working?

04:08:09 [Spork]

yeah I got it all working finally

04:08:19 [Spork]

Win2K, WinXP and Mandrake

04:08:26 [davb]

cool.

04:08:31 [Spork]

WinXP for games, Mandrake for my new OS

04:08:35 [Spork]

and Win2K as fallback

04:08:36 [davb]

XP was probably the culprit.

04:08:45 [Spork]

Actually

04:08:50 [davb]

Double check your firewall with XP :)

04:08:56 [Spork]

What was I trying to get to work ?

04:09:26 [davb]

You wanted to be able to have a boot menu to switch between them?

04:09:33 [Spork]

Oh

04:09:33 [Spork]

Right

04:09:40 [Spork]

yes, the culprit was actually mandrake

04:10:03 [davb]

really?

04:10:07 [davb]

interesting.

04:10:15 [Spork]

I don't know why maybe the new version of LILO or something did not like my old fashion way of specifying where to boot from

04:10:20 [Spork]

I had to add this:

04:10:28 [davb]

try GRUB. its super/

04:10:34 [Spork]

other=/dev/hdd1

04:10:34 [Spork]

label=Win2K

04:10:34 [Spork]

table=/dev/hdd

04:10:34 [Spork]

map-drive=0x80 to=0x81

04:10:34 [Spork]

map-drive=0x81 to=0x80

04:10:45 [Spork]

Actually, that's how I found out what I needed to do LOL!

04:10:57 [Spork]

I tried GRUB, and it then only let me boot Win2K and no XP

04:11:12 [Spork]

So I switched back to LILO and it apparently kept my GRUB setup

04:11:26 [Spork]

And I had 2 entries like the one I just pasted and I could only boot Win2K but no XP

04:11:40 [Spork]

So I was like....Well, I can hack this, and edit that, and then it should do what I want it to do

04:11:46 [Spork]

And it did :)

04:11:49 [davb]

cool.

04:12:15 [Spork]

I installed XEmacs

04:12:25 [Spork]

but I have been purposefuly using vi

04:12:33 [Spork]

i can actually edit files now ;)

04:12:35 [davb]

I never bothered fixing mine. I switch the boot drive in the BIOS to switch to Win98.

04:12:39 [davb]

Cool.

04:12:54 [davb]

everyone has vi, so you should be able to edit anywhere now.

04:13:07 [Spork]

yeah hehe

04:13:17 [Spork]

Hey, you know where the standard place is to keep shared bitmaps?

04:13:33 [davb]

oops

04:14:06 [davb]

I am in windows so I can't check.

04:15:08 [Spork]

heh

04:15:09 [Spork]

I got it

04:15:13 [Spork]

I just made my own place

04:15:24 [davb]

works for me :)

04:15:59 [davb]

I will now leave for the night. Have a good one.

04:16:00 [Spork]

Hehehehehe

04:16:06 [Spork]

Cheese = my favorite Xfce scheme

04:16:09 [Spork]

ok

04:16:11 [Spork]

nite dave

04:16:12 [Spork]

wait

04:16:17 [Spork]

you think I should go to work tomorrow?

04:16:22 [davb]

No.

04:16:24 [davb]

:)

04:16:29 [Spork]

It's a regular work day but I doubt anyone will be there

04:16:48 [Spork]

I'll just wander aimlessly for a bit, stare at the monitor in my cubicle and then go home after an hour

04:16:49 [Spork]

lol

04:17:02 [davb]

you are 100% correct.

04:17:04 [Spork]

I dunno, that's a hundred bucks though

04:17:08 [davb]

Oh.

04:17:13 [davb]

well that is different.

04:17:37 [Spork]

heh

04:18:02 [davb]

bye

04:18:03 [davb]

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04:18:07 [Spork]

see ya

04:23:18 [rbm]

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05:03:29 [rbm]

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10:02:37 [anlater]

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10:31:48 [rbm]

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11:43:29 [ola]

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11:51:11 [ola]

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12:02:01 [ola]

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12:47:05 [davb]

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12:47:56 [davb]

davb has changed the topic to: OpenACS | Free Web Toolkit | http://openacs.org

14:42:25 [Spork]

Spork has changed the topic to: OpenACS | Free Web Toolkit | http://openacs.org | Dave is Grumpy | Happy New Year! | 2002

15:00:12 [Spork]

Dave you awake?

15:11:22 [davb]

hi

15:11:43 [davb]

I have a sick kid at home. looks like it will be a fun day :)

15:12:36 [Spork]

Oh boy

15:12:38 [Spork]

You at work?

15:12:43 [Spork]

Hola ola!

15:15:12 [davb]

heh, no. at home.

15:15:18 [Spork]

Ah

15:15:24 [Spork]

You know how to mount an NTFS partition in Linux?

15:15:31 [davb]

nope.

15:15:35 [Spork]

k

15:15:53 [davb]

do you have it compiled in your kernel or as a module?

15:16:19 [Spork]

I'm guessing in the kernel

15:16:31 [Spork]

I can mount it as root, I just can't read the partition as a regular user

15:16:40 [davb]

Ah.

15:17:03 [Spork]

W00t

15:17:04 [davb]

I never had an NTFS partition before. Although I think I will upgrade to Win 2000 one of these days.

15:17:06 [Spork]

got it

15:17:10 [davb]

cool.

15:18:07 [Spork]

You know, I gotta have my mp3s :-)

15:18:40 [davb]

of course.

15:18:43 [Spork]

Mounted as read only =)

15:18:53 [Spork]

10:20am up 11:22, 1 user, load average: 0.24, 0.12, 0.05

15:18:55 [Spork]

posh

15:19:10 [Psychephylax]

10:30AM up 160 days, 1:42, 1 user, load averages: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00

15:19:17 [Psychephylax]

That's what I'm talking about

15:22:09 [Spork]

dave

15:22:17 [Spork]

You should know this ;)

15:22:23 [Spork]

How do I have somethign start on boot

15:25:26 [davb]

in Linux?

15:25:29 [davb]

depends

15:25:35 [Psychephylax]

It's rc5

15:25:38 [davb]

there is more than one way to do it.

15:25:54 [davb]

oops

15:26:22 [davb]

put a script ing there or rather a symlink to a script that lives in /etc/init.d usually.

15:26:33 [davb]

check out the names, you should be able to figure out how to make it work :)

15:59:52 [davb]

is ola around?

16:00:47 [anlater]

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16:20:14 [Spork]

nope

16:26:47 [rbm]

moo

16:27:43 [Spork]

Moo!

16:27:43 [rbm]

Spork: To have a user be able to mount a certain partition, add the word "user" to the line of that partition in /etc/fstab

16:27:59 [davb]

hi rbm

16:29:21 [rbm]

morning all

16:30:49 [Spork]

hello

16:30:58 [Spork]

I did it a diff way

16:31:07 [Spork]

I just made it ro and automounted

16:31:12 [Spork]

with a umask of 022

16:31:16 [Spork]

or maybe 222

16:37:39 [Spork]

What the hell

16:37:41 [Spork]

what's an rpm.bin

16:38:02 [Spork]

I want to install the Java SDK

16:39:38 [rbm]

I jsut downloaded the tarball and used that

16:39:41 [rbm]

-RPM is evil

16:39:44 [Spork]

yeah

16:45:04 [Spork]

Is it wrong of me to install JBuilder 5 in Linux? :)

16:45:18 [rbm]

I don't see why.

16:45:34 [rbm]

Is JBuilder a free (beer) download?

16:45:55 [rbm]

brb

16:47:36 [Spork]

no it's not

16:49:16 [davb]

Jbuilder personal is free.

16:49:52 [Spork]

oh

16:49:53 [Spork]

heh

16:50:07 [Spork]

I was think of professioanl or enterprise

16:50:14 [davb]

They are less so :)

16:50:42 [Spork]

:)

16:51:11 [rbm]

back

16:51:14 [Spork]

wb

16:51:21 [Spork]

Beer at 10:51 am?

16:51:25 [rbm]

tks

16:51:27 [Spork]

Man, and I thought I was bad

16:51:34 [davb]

You have a copy of JBuilder already?

16:51:42 [Spork]

I have many

16:51:42 [Spork]

lol

16:51:54 [davb]

Ah. well then the installation is up to you :)

16:51:55 [rbm]

Beer?

16:52:16 [rbm]

I don't drink alcohol.

16:52:18 [Spork]

JBuilder 4 Professional, JBuilder 5 Enterprise for windows, JBuilder 5 Pro Educational Special (expires)

16:52:24 [Spork]

You mean you didn't just go get a beer?

16:52:28 [Spork]

My mistake

16:52:47 [rbm]

I've seen the consequences of Alcohol too close and too many times in my 3.5 years in medical school.

16:53:03 [Spork]

ah

16:54:56 [Spork]

hmmm

17:04:08 [Spork]

it's being retarded about installing itself

17:04:08 [Spork]

Hmm

17:04:08 [Spork]

1.4 beta 3 or 1.3 final

17:04:10 [Spork]

Stay fuzzy....save the world...................choices

17:04:22 [Spork]

hmmm

17:04:26 [Spork]

Roberto, when you downloaded the SDK did it have a .bin extension on it?

17:04:40 [Spork]

aha

17:04:42 [Spork]

go java go

17:05:34 [davb]

if you can live with the personal version 5 is out and 6 is coming in January. no expiration :)

17:06:22 [Spork]

heh

17:06:31 [Spork]

yeah but I can make it expire in 10 years :p

17:06:41 [Spork]

No worries

17:07:00 [Spork]

Also, my Uni id doesn't expire until 2003

17:07:18 [Spork]

I'm gonna go to the school store and buy a bunch of software before it expires

17:07:21 [rbm]

Spork: no

17:07:24 [Spork]

it = my id

17:07:42 [Spork]

no what?

17:07:44 [Spork]

no .bin/

17:20:18 [rbm_]

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17:20:25 [rbm_]

Now I have to wait for my clone to die

17:20:35 [davb]

brb

17:20:37 [davb]

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17:26:44 [davb]

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17:29:27 [beattiek]

davb: what's OPML?

17:29:43 [jim]

rbm_: you can tell nickserv to ghost it, -if- you regged your nick

17:29:48 [davb]

Its an XML format for outlines. I forget the acronym.

17:29:57 [beattiek]

cool

17:30:07 [beattiek]

(i'm reading your site)

17:30:08 [anlater]

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17:30:19 [davb]

Aha. I forget why I would have mentioned it there :)

17:30:33 [davb]

rbm: does mozilla live in /usr/bin?

17:31:16 [rbm]

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17:31:23 [beattiek]

opps.

17:31:37 [beattiek]

did you know:

17:31:43 [jim]

I guess you can compile it to live anywhere

17:31:45 [beattiek]

the OACS logo sucks.

17:31:55 [beattiek]

he means default

17:31:56 [Spork]

rofl

17:31:56 [jim]

I like it :)

17:32:07 [beattiek]

it is frumple

17:32:19 [davb]

specifically on debian.

17:32:30 [beattiek]

i will install it and see

17:32:32 [davb]

I can't seem to get it to install 0.9.7.

17:32:45 [jim]

if it's a debian package that follows policy, should be in /usr/bin

17:33:21 [davb]

ok. i still have 0.9.5 and it says its the latest version.

17:33:28 [Spork]

hmmm

17:33:32 [jim]

oic

17:33:41 [jim]

it's not finding the later version

17:33:56 [Spork]

I have a j2sdk1.4.0 directory and a bin in there where all my java stuff is...but how do I linux to know

17:34:29 [jim]

it's saying: "as far as I know from the data I retrieved from the sources you gave me to get packages, it'

17:34:34 [jim]

s the latest"

17:35:02 [davb]

there is an evironment variable the JVM needs set I think.

17:35:09 [beattiek]

i'm gonna read /.

17:35:13 [Spork]

me too

17:35:18 [davb]

I see that mozilla is in non-us. mabe it have to specify...

17:35:36 [jim]

Spork: where'd you get jdk140?

17:36:14 [davb]

I am thinking my souces.list is wrong...

17:36:41 [jim]

no, it sees your mozilla

17:37:03 [jim]

maybe no one packaged 097

17:37:23 [davb]

its in non-us/unstable

17:37:43 [jim]

if they did, you could get the .deb yourself andfeed it to your own dpkg

17:37:49 [rbm_]

davb: I have my nick regged. I forgot I could zap someone else.

17:37:49 [beattiek]

dave, what is the goal of your site "the design experiance"

17:38:07 [davb]

good question beattiek.

17:38:25 [rbm_]

rbm_ is now known as rbm

17:38:29 [davb]

I am just fooling aroudn with OpenACS, learning how it works so I can charge people to set it up :)

17:38:37 [beattiek]

to teach people how to spell experience?

17:38:52 [Spork]

jim: on the Sun website

17:38:55 [jim]

sheesh :) I held back saying that :)

17:38:57 [beattiek]

i see, why don't you port to OACS 4?

17:39:03 [davb]

I also originally was going to have more design and programming chronicles on there, but its more fun to hack the backend.

17:39:19 [beattiek]

:)

17:39:29 [davb]

beattiek: I am actually in the process of converting. I am hacking together some templates for ETP.

17:39:44 [jim]

what's a ETP?

17:39:53 [davb]

its the edit-this-page package.

17:39:55 [davb]

Ok.

17:40:00 [davb]

I am going insane. :)

17:40:19 [davb]

I did apt-get update apt-get install mozilla and not its working.

17:40:33 [beattiek]

yeah, an aquaintance used to use that system

17:40:36 [davb]

I know I tried it the other day.

17:41:24 [beattiek]

he switched to his own tech tho.

17:41:27 [davb]

No this is the OpenACS package edit-this-page.

17:41:29 [rbm]

davb: Can you give more detail please? "Not working" doesn't say much.

17:41:36 [beattiek]

oh

17:41:40 [beattiek]

never read it yet

17:41:41 [jim]

does the oacs4 installer work the same as the acs4 installer?

17:41:45 [davb]

rbm: oops s/not working/working :)

17:41:51 [rbm]

davb: Ah.

17:42:00 [rbm]

jim: pretty much.

17:42:18 [rbm]

Except that we don't have a repository that you can download packages from yet.

17:42:30 [beattiek]

:(

17:42:38 [rbm]

You have to get them from CVS

17:42:40 [jim]

heh, you could use apt :)

17:42:51 [beattiek]

rbm: why don't all packages just come installed?

17:43:19 [rbm]

I think that's what is being done for CVS sources, but that won't be the default upon release

17:43:36 [rbm]

beattiek: There are _a lot_ of packages. Most of them most people don't need.

17:43:56 [beattiek]

but is there any disadvantage of having the packages you don't need?

17:44:00 [jim]

* jim wonders if Phil has seen acs4.6

17:44:15 [davb]

beattiek: having on disk, or installed?

17:44:22 [beattiek]

i guess conflits might occur

17:44:27 [rbm]

Yes. It takes time to load all of them. It increases the size of your backups, it installs filters, etc.

17:44:28 [beattiek]

installed

17:44:37 [beattiek]

oh

17:44:46 [beattiek]

i asked that earlier and people were less clear

17:45:12 [davb]

wow, apt updated galeon when I updated Mozilla.

17:45:35 [Spork]

what the hell

17:45:38 [rbm]

probably because galeon depends on mozilla

17:45:50 [Spork]

What good is a built in package updater in xemacs if none work

17:46:40 [rbm]

What good is Xemacs when there's FSF Emacs? :)

17:47:05 [Spork]

?

17:47:18 [rbm]

I need to modify my Emacs to treat Tabs the way I want them.

17:49:36 [davb]

I am getting : psql: connectDBStart() -- connect() failed: Connection refused

17:49:36 [davb]

Is the postmaster running locally

17:49:36 [davb]

and accepting connections on Unix socket '/tmp/.s.PGSQL.5432'?

17:49:45 [davb]

any clues? Yes I started and restart postgresql.

17:49:59 [davb]

it worked before :)

17:50:03 [rbm]

But did it actually start? Check /var/log/postgres.log

17:50:12 [davb]

ah, thanks, I am dumb :)

17:51:02 [rbm]

rbm has changed the topic to: <davb> ah, thanks, I am dumb :) | OpenACS - Free Web Toolkit

17:51:08 [davb]

my log doesn't show anything about starting up ever.. just shutting down :)

17:51:09 [davb]

heh

17:51:11 [jim]

rbm: that's easy, you just modify the alist for the mode

17:51:29 [rbm]

jim: Oh. If you know how, please tell me.

17:51:40 [jim]

me, I want emacs (and edwin) to never generate tab chars

17:51:42 [rbm]

jim: I want Emacs to treat Tabs as Tabs.

17:51:56 [rbm]

why?

17:52:31 [jim]

i.e., I hit tab, it autoindents, but never replaces 8 spaces with a tab (that's what I want)

17:52:59 [rbm]

I want to hit a Tab and a Tab char be inserted. I don't want it to replace anything.

17:52:59 [jim]

rbm: hmmm, one way is to change the major mode to fundamental

17:53:13 [beattiek]

davb: you get all the fame, i admit to being dumb daily and i never get any glory :)

17:53:19 [rbm]

I only use Tabs in the beginning of lines, so I can change my tab stops anytime.

17:53:27 [rbm]

jim: Argh.

17:54:06 [davb]

Jan 1 00:51:35 dave postgres[1562]: [5] DEBUG: database system is in producti\on state

17:54:26 [jim]

rbm: what mode are you in that you want this?

17:56:21 [rbm]

jim: Isn't there a way to do this that is independent of mode?

17:56:30 [jim]

rbm: hmm, not sure where you want this... global? local to a particular mode? <-- maybe more doable, the former might not have such control over the modes?

17:56:36 [rbm]

jim: Tcl, PHP, Python, and C modes :)

17:56:41 [jim]

I'd have to dig

17:57:05 [rbm]

This has been one source of grief I've had with emacs.

17:58:04 [davb]

brb

17:58:56 [AaronSw-UK]

AaronSw-UK (Snak@ACACB0DC.ipt.aol.com) has joined #openacs

17:59:05 [rbm]

Wow. Aaron amongst us again.

17:59:14 [AaronSw-UK]

* AaronSw-UK waves from the UK

17:59:27 [Spork]

yes!

17:59:29 [Spork]

I broke emacs

17:59:33 [AaronSw-UK]

Heh heh.

17:59:42 [Spork]

Hey AaronSw-UK

17:59:52 [AaronSw-UK]

hey Spork

18:00:00 [davb]

davb has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))

18:00:04 [AaronSw-UK]

* AaronSw-UK wonders if jim is the jim he knows -- notes that we both are attbi customers (or victims...)

18:00:25 [jim]

not sure you know me :)

18:00:38 [rbm]

UK?

18:00:42 [rbm]

NIce.

18:00:45 [jim]

depends on the def of know you're using ;)

18:00:50 [rbm]

<-- wishes to visit Europe someday

18:00:59 [AaronSw-UK]

Yeah, it's fun.

18:01:18 [AaronSw-UK]

I use a very loose def of 'know'.

18:01:33 [rbm]

Are you hiding from school there? :-)

18:01:56 [AaronSw-UK]

:-)

18:02:28 [davb]

davb (~dave@alb-24-58-160-135.nycap.rr.com) has joined #Openacs

18:02:50 [jim]

Use `C-q <TAB>' to insert a tab at point.

18:02:54 [davb]

I think I broke something updating mozilla.

18:02:56 [beattiek]

I hear Europe is a good place to hide from school.

18:03:02 [jim]

(another way)

18:03:33 [AaronSw-UK]

I hear bots talk like beattiek.

18:03:41 [davb]

hi AaronSw-UK!

18:03:48 [beattiek]

I am not a bot.

18:03:53 [beattiek]

;)

18:04:13 [AaronSw-UK]

hi davb!

18:04:21 [jim]

I am not bot-a-not!

18:04:37 [beattiek]

okay jim, take another vallium :P

18:05:01 [AaronSw-UK]

I was curious what you folks thought of skunkweb...

18:05:02 [jim]

* jim hasn't had his coffee yet

18:05:05 [AaronSw-UK]

http://skunkweb.sf.net

18:05:05 [chump]

A: http://skunkweb.sf.net from AaronSw-UK

18:05:07 [AaronSw-UK]

.time est

18:05:22 [Spork]

Almost done

18:05:32 [Spork]

now I just need to tell XEmacs where to look for java binaries like javadoc

18:06:05 [jim]

AaronSw-UK: did we talk about att broadband service?

18:06:12 [beattiek]

senior programmer types like it too (vs. say tcl)

18:06:16 [AaronSw-UK]

dunno. don't remember it

18:06:23 [AaronSw-UK]

A:|SkunkWeb

18:06:23 [chump]

titled item A

18:07:05 [AaronSw-UK]

A:How do people think this compares to OpenACS? It has some features I like, like remote object invokation, templates calling code, and built-in caching, and Python! (all of which I don't think OpenACS has)

18:07:05 [chump]

commented item A

18:07:38 [beattiek]

AaronSw-UK: does it have any modules/community support yet?

18:08:18 [AaronSw-UK]

Unfortuantely, not many that I know of.

18:08:40 [AaronSw-UK]

That's very much a strong suit of OpenACS

18:09:03 [beattiek]

I think people to readily compare things to OACS that are to different to compare.

18:09:18 [jim]

rbm: what you have to do in emacs, is control what elisp function the tab key invokes

18:09:55 [AaronSw-UK]

beattiek, yeah, like Zope

18:10:01 [beattiek]

:)

18:10:09 [Spork]

Woo, just need to find out how to add my path to my thing

18:10:30 [Spork]

Do you Linuxy people know where Linux likes it's path defined globally?

18:10:49 [jim]

Spork: depends on shell

18:10:58 [Spork]

bash

18:11:52 [jim]

do you want it just for you? maybe you edit ~/.bash_profile, maybe ~/.bashrc

18:12:02 [Spork]

nah, everyone

18:12:39 [jim]

but for the details, info bash, navigate to where it tells you what files it reads when

18:13:52 [rbm]

jim: Hmmm. That's a good suggestion. I think it is indent-line

18:14:00 [AaronSw-UK]

AaronSw-UK is now known as AardnSw-UK

18:14:09 [Spork]

Got it

18:14:16 [jim]

rbm: also, I just found elisp (setq-default ...)

18:14:20 [AardnSw-UK]

AardnSw-UK is now known as AaronSw-UK

18:14:53 [jim]

(as I'm looking to kill all tab chars in my text)

18:15:01 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m869-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #OpenACS

18:15:03 [Spork]

cool

18:15:33 [rbm]

AaronSw-UK: I personally think it's a bad idea to have templates calling code.

18:15:49 [AaronSw-UK]

Really, why's that?

18:16:02 [rbm]

What's a template's function?

18:16:20 [AaronSw-UK]

To outline a representation to be sent to a client.

18:16:28 [AaronSw-UK]

a Representation, really.

18:16:33 [rbm]

Exactly.

18:16:46 [rbm]

So you're separating presentation from logic.

18:16:56 [rbm]

Logic should be where logic goes.

18:17:03 [AaronSw-UK]

Yepitty.

18:17:20 [rbm]

Putting code in presentation defeats the purpose of the separation.

18:17:33 [jim]

but maybe you can create support for templates in specific ways, using code to do that

18:17:56 [AaronSw-UK]

rbm, huh? I didn't say putting code in a presentation -- just calling it

18:18:18 [rbm]

I'd classify that as code. It's a slippery slope.

18:18:49 [AaronSw-UK]

What if it's just requesting some variables to be set?

18:19:02 [rbm]

I can see the usefullness of such thing, but I can also see the problems.

18:19:11 [AaronSw-UK]

Hmm. Let me think about this.

18:19:20 [AaronSw-UK]

What are some of the problems?

18:19:30 [rbm]

It should be pretty easy to implement something like that in OACS' templating system.

18:19:55 [rbm]

AaronSw-UK: You're giving graphic designers rope to hang themselves with.

18:19:57 [rbm]

(for one)

18:20:06 [beattiek]

what is the best way to read package documentation?

18:20:21 [AaronSw-UK]

Hmm, I don't really imagine graohic desginers writing templates like these.

18:20:22 [jim]

eyes are good ;)

18:21:03 [rbm]

AaronSw-UK: Just like people never imagine someone exploiting that buffer they didn't check.

18:21:07 [beattiek]

jim: thanks, i was thinking upside-down and blindfolded

18:21:29 [beattiek]

rbm: i wouldn't say it's just like that,

18:21:30 [jim]

wow, that was gonna be my second guess :)

18:21:58 [beattiek]

but realy, what is the best way?

18:22:12 [beattiek]

can i read it off my server?

18:22:18 [AaronSw-UK]

rbm, I don't think that's exactly analogous.

18:22:56 [rbm]

AaronSw-UK: Not exactly analogous, but pretty close.

18:23:02 [jim]

I've always read pkg docs using the web, there should be a link doc/package

18:23:04 [rbm]

the principle still applies

18:23:12 [AaronSw-UK]

gotta run

18:23:35 [AaronSw-UK]

AaronSw-UK has quit ("dinner")

18:25:19 [jim]

there's the requirements doc, the design doc, which might be linked off of there, and then your indiv procs would be in the api browser

18:25:30 [sbp]

sbp has quit ("Homer: 20 dollars? I wanted a peanut!")

18:26:26 [jim]

(so you should always use ad-proc or equiv, and write the javadoc-like stuff in the doc string)

18:27:15 [jim]

* jim thinks that might be better named doc-proc if we're getting away from ad

18:28:31 [davb]

jim: they are all named ad_foo so you know where they came from I think.

18:28:58 [rbm]

Weird. I didn't think SUM could return a null.

18:30:00 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m182-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #OpenACS

18:31:07 [jim]

if only the VC people would be honored by that rather than see it as competition

18:33:28 [davb]

also there are 1000's of lines of code using them :)

18:40:41 [sbp]

sbp has quit (K-lined)

18:41:26 [beattiek]

would you store subsite files in /var/www/$server/www/$subsite/?

18:41:56 [sbp]

sbp (~sean@m281-mp1-cvx4c.pop.ntl.com) has joined #OpenACS

18:42:54 [davb]

what type? static files?

18:45:19 [sbp]

sbp has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: SeanP!~sean@m97-mp1-cvx3b.pop.ntl.com)))

18:46:09 [beattiek]

yes

18:46:28 [davb]

I am not sure...

18:47:18 [rbm]

PHP sucks

18:47:20 [davb]

that should work.

18:48:08 [rbm]

Anyone know if there's a way to force a process to be executed on a certain process in a SMP machine?

18:48:34 [rbm]

s/process$/CPU/

18:51:33 [davb]

hmmmm.. postgresql is still broken.

18:54:17 [rbm]

7.2?

18:54:24 [davb]

no 7.1.3

18:54:32 [davb]

I can't connect.

18:54:53 [rbm]

Is the process up

18:54:55 [rbm]

?

18:55:11 [davb]

yes. I started and restarted etc... ps -A shows postmaster running.

18:55:22 [davb]

I didn;t change anything :)

18:56:20 [rbm]

Did you just upgrade PG or something.

18:56:32 [rbm]

How are you trying to connect to it?

18:56:51 [davb]

no. at least not that I am aware of :)

18:56:52 [davb]

psql

18:57:20 [rbm]

Do you have a socket on /tmp for PG?

18:57:27 [davb]

I originally noticed because I wanted to vacuum.

18:58:12 [davb]

I can't seem to find one...

18:58:34 [davb]

hmmm...

18:59:01 [rbm]

In Debian it should be in /var/run/postgresql

18:59:16 [rbm]

brasileiro:/var# ll /var/run/postgresql

18:59:16 [rbm]

total 3

18:59:16 [rbm]

drwxr-xr-x 2 postgres postgres 1024 Dec 27 15:12 .

18:59:16 [rbm]

drwxr-xr-x 9 root root 1024 Dec 27 22:22 ..

18:59:16 [rbm]

srwxrwxrwx 1 postgres postgres 0 Dec 27 15:12 .s.PGSQL.5432

18:59:17 [rbm]

-rw------- 1 postgres postgres 27 Dec 27 15:12 .s.PGSQL.5432.lock

19:00:05 [davb]

they are there.

19:01:04 [rbm]

stop the postmaster and check if they go away

19:01:15 [davb]

they did, and I restarted they came right back...

19:02:20 [davb]

I wonder if something got screwed ip when I updated ,pzo;;a/

19:02:24 [davb]

mozilla

19:02:42 [rbm]

Hmm. So your postmaster is starting allright, but psql can't seem to find the vars.

19:02:55 [rbm]

Check your env vars. Is this as a regular user?

19:03:09 [rbm]

davb: Mozilla shouldn't have done anything with it

19:03:55 [davb]

I tried as postgres user, nsadmin. I don;t think anything changed. that is what is frustrating.

19:04:45 [rbm]

hmph

19:04:56 [davb]

davb has quit (Remote closed the connection)

19:06:36 [davb]

davb (~dave@alb-24-58-160-135.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs

19:06:41 [davb]

oops..

19:08:05 [vinod]

vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-191.s1207.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs

19:08:26 [davb]

hi vinod

19:08:49 [vinod]

hey davb! Happy New Year everyone

19:09:08 [rbm]

vinod: You're 11 hours and 45 minutes ahead of time man :)

19:09:27 [vinod]

davb: i think the topic needs to be changed (if you're dumb, then I'm....not gonna finish this sentence)

19:09:59 [davb]

davb has changed the topic to: Happy New Year from OpenACS | http://openacs.org

19:10:00 [vinod]

rbm: only 8+ hrs here :-)

19:10:01 [davb]

:)

19:10:19 [davb]

vinod?

19:10:24 [vinod]

9+ ?

19:10:29 [vinod]

what time is it?

19:10:37 [davb]

2:11

19:10:39 [davb]

EST

19:10:48 [vinod]

yes, make that 9+

19:10:50 [vinod]

:-)

19:10:53 [rbm]

vinod: Oh :)

19:11:09 [davb]

Ok. any other ideas where I can look to troubleshoot postgresql?

19:11:19 [vinod]

what's not working?

19:11:30 [davb]

psql: connectDBStart() -- connect() failed: Connection refused

19:11:30 [davb]

Is the postmaster running locally

19:11:30 [davb]

and accepting connections on Unix socket '/tmp/.s.PGSQL.5432'?

19:11:31 [rbm]

davb: Your /etc/postgresql/pg_hba.conf

19:11:40 [rbm]

DAVB!

19:11:50 [davb]

yes?

19:12:15 [rbm]

Maybe for some reason it's looking for the socket in a different place

19:12:33 [davb]

ok. could be.

19:13:08 [rbm]

Do a "netstat -anp" and see if you see a line like this:

19:13:09 [rbm]

unix 2 [ ACC ] STREAM LISTENING 575 - /var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432

19:14:45 [davb]

unix 0 [ ACC ] STREAM LISTENING 52120 5591/postmaster /var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432

19:15:38 [rbm]

hmmm

19:15:45 [rbm]

rats

19:16:56 [rbm]

What does psql --help tell you in the line " -h <host> " ?

19:17:07 [rbm]

And " -p <port>"

19:17:59 [davb]

default: domain sockt

19:18:04 [davb]

default: 5432

19:18:25 [davb]

I really didn;t change anything :) It worked on saturday.

19:18:28 [rbm]

That's absolutely bizarre.

19:18:36 [davb]

yes that is what happens to me :)

19:19:07 [rbm]

There's got to be something really miniscule we are missing

19:19:32 [davb]

yes that is also usually what happens to me :)

19:19:44 [rbm]

It happens to everybody

19:19:59 [beattiek]

hmmph

19:20:36 [beattiek]

a packages is 'installed' if it is on your fs right?

19:21:04 [davb]

not quite. the datamodel needs to be installed in the database through the APM.

19:21:20 [beattiek]

oh

19:21:34 [beattiek]

i thought that was just to be 'enabled' thanks.

19:22:18 [davb]

np

19:23:29 [beattiek]

loading that data model isn't realy a big decission right? i mean, i can just remove it later if i don't use it... right?

19:24:07 [davb]

yes. BUT removing a packge from the APM also deletes the files from the filesystem. (yes that needs to be optional)

19:24:53 [beattiek]

weird

19:25:42 [beattiek]

well were not talking a large burden to maintain and load into ram unused packages anyway... i think...

19:26:25 [beattiek]

see, i want to load all of the packages, then use them as nessicary while i develop, then ditch the ones i don't use.

19:27:04 [davb]

I usually just install what I want to work with, then add more if I need them.

19:27:25 [davb]

Definitely on a development machine I can't forsee a problem installing them all.

19:28:04 [vinod]

except that you might run into errors from packages that are not fully ported yet

19:28:32 [davb]

Really weird.

19:28:53 [davb]

postgresql vacummed itself Dec 30, so it was working then.

19:29:32 [vinod]

what have you done since then? ;-)

19:31:51 [beattiek]

are there any packages you guys would suggest against?

19:32:08 [beattiek]

that have caused problems in the past.

19:36:26 [vinod]

you might want to start at the status document: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/status.html?version_id=410

19:36:54 [vinod]

if the package is listed as TESTING, it *should* work. anything less than TESTING and it probably won't work

19:38:53 [davb]

vinod: since then, I was in Windows, I can't even look at the Linux partitions :)

19:40:46 [vinod]

davb: good alibi :-)

19:41:21 [davb]

I thought so.

19:41:57 [davb]

I then did apt-get install mozilla and upgraded to mozilla 0.9.7. then I noticed I couldn't connect to postgresql.

19:42:49 [jim]

couldn't connect?

19:43:24 [davb]

yes. the postmaster appears to be running, but psql and aolserver can't connect to it.

19:43:51 [jim]

ok, sounds like a different vers of pg has been installed?

19:44:01 [davb]

I hope not :)

19:44:22 [jim]

do you build your pg separate, or install .deb?

19:44:40 [davb]

I used the .deb

19:44:54 [jim]

ok, .deb could have been upgraded

19:46:39 [jim]

suggest mkdir /usr/local/pgsql/source ; put source there, install into /usr/local/pgsql from source, manage /etc/init.d/* files appropriately

19:47:02 [jim]

now... so that I can get up to speed and maybe help concretely...

19:47:13 [jim]

I'm gonna now install oacs4

19:47:24 [davb]

i see.

19:47:32 [jim]

I think I have just enuf time

19:47:38 [jim]

first, pg...

19:47:40 [talli]

talli (~talli@ip64-75-146-204.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs

19:47:42 [jim]

what version again?

19:47:42 [davb]

it was working two days ago. That is what is annoying me :)

19:47:45 [davb]

7.1.3

19:47:46 [jim]

hi talli

19:47:49 [davb]

hello talli

19:48:28 [davb]

Spork: can I borrow your slide-rule?

19:48:32 [jim]

talli: tell your perl friend http://sourceforge.net/projects/perl-aol and does he feel like helping?

19:49:32 [talli]

jim: i won't be able to do it soon. but he is an OACS member and you're welcome to ping him yourself.

19:49:39 [talli]

his email is johnseq@pobox.com

19:49:47 [talli]

hey vinod

19:49:52 [vinod]

hey talli. dial.maui.net????

19:50:05 [jim]

ok, cool

19:50:18 [talli]

yup, in maui. leaving today

19:50:28 [vinod]

cool! (well, not the leaving part)

19:50:43 [jim]

have a safe trip

19:51:08 [vinod]

so, where are you gonna celebrate the new year?

19:51:15 [jim]

7.1.3, ok

19:51:29 [jim]

the best place is on the international date line :)

19:51:58 [talli]

vinod: in SF

19:52:55 [vinod]

cool!

20:03:07 [AaronSw-UK]

AaronSw-UK (Snak@ACAEC362.ipt.aol.com) has joined #openacs

20:03:09 [jim]

best idea to have oracle and pg available still?

20:04:31 [davb]

on pg_ctl start and pg_ctl stop I see this message: /usr/lib/postgresql/bin/postmaster: reaping dead processes...

20:05:23 [vinod]

hmmm... when you do pg_stop, are there any postmasters left running?

20:05:41 [talli]

jim: i just mentioned to john via MSN IM that you're working on the perl-aol module

20:05:56 [talli]

he's not around right now, but he should get the message soon

20:06:05 [jim]

talli: wow :) that was fast :)

20:06:14 [vinod]

jim: for development/porting, it's nice to have both installed, but you don't need to

20:06:32 [jim]

well, since I do have it installed...

20:07:11 [vinod]

you've went through the pain already - leave it :-)

20:07:22 [davb]

vinod: nope

20:08:01 [jim]

hmmm... 7.1.2 wouldn't be close enuf, would it? :)

20:08:20 [vinod]

i think 7.1.2 is ok - 7.1.1 is BAD, though

20:08:26 [vinod]

davb: darn :-)

20:08:32 [jim]

hmmmm

20:08:37 [jim]

replacing.

20:09:34 [talli]

ok, see ya guys later

20:09:43 [vinod]

seeya talli!

20:09:43 [talli]

have a good new year everyone

20:09:48 [talli]

talli has quit ("See ya!")

20:10:51 [jim]

user postgres/group postgres builds/installs/owns?

20:12:32 [vinod]

i do user:postgres group:web so that nsadmin.web can do maintenance (not sure if that's absolutely necessary)

20:13:06 [jim]

ok, will consider that...

20:13:08 [vinod]

jim: do you want to look at the docs that i'm working on - they're rough

20:13:15 [jim]

sure

20:13:27 [vinod]

http://kurup.com/acs/openacs4

20:13:27 [jim]

where to look?

20:13:39 [jim]

ok

20:13:54 [vinod]

skip down to install postgres

20:14:13 [jim]

there

20:14:23 [jim]

ok, so you're advocating just that

20:14:30 [vinod]

please comment on the pages (or by email) if you find anything weird

20:14:44 [jim]

* jim considers doing some setgid dirs tests

20:15:05 [vinod]

jim: yeah, but i stole a lot of info from other sources (old openacs docs, old acs docs)

20:23:52 [johnseq]

johnseq (user72@h00036d142020.ne.mediaone.net) has joined #openacs

20:23:55 [Spork]

Hey vinod

20:23:59 [Spork]

davb: sure

20:24:01 [davb]

heh

20:24:15 [Spork]

You can also borrow my baseball bat if need be

20:25:07 [vinod]

hey Spork

20:25:23 [Spork]

:-)

20:25:54 [rbm]

vinod: I'm trying to have OpenACS 4 packages available on Debian

20:26:49 [beattiek]

vinod: what sort of feedback are you looking for?

20:27:01 [vinod]

rbm: cool, that would be great!

20:27:41 [rbm]

vinod: I'm also trying to take ownership of the AOLserver packages. They are up for adoption.

20:27:52 [vinod]

beattiek: well, i still need to make the external links work and fill out a couple sections, but aside from that, *any* feedback is welcome.

20:27:57 [Spork]

i'm gonna go play some video games :)

20:28:17 [Spork]

bbl

20:28:25 [Spork]

* Spork goes to reboot in *shudder* Windows

20:28:26 [Spork]

Spork has quit ("Client Exiting")

20:29:37 [rbm]

* rbm foresees a very boring new years' eve in his life tonight

20:32:35 [davb]

it looks like my apt-get upgrade stopped in the middle...

20:33:04 [vinod]

hmmm... the plot thickens :-)

20:33:19 [davb]

I did that AFTER I was having a problem though...

20:33:20 [rbm]

vinod: Added a comment to http://www.kurup.com/acs/openacs4/install-overview.html

20:33:47 [vinod]

davb: doh

20:34:43 [davb]

so it may or may not help... :)

20:34:57 [vinod]

rbm: thanks! yup - you're right. i was considering adding that myself in the 'Steps involved' section (but I got lazy)

20:35:03 [davb]

I think I need to start all over again one of these days.

20:35:17 [rbm]

vinod: np.

20:35:22 [rbm]

I'm going to eat something. brb.

20:35:50 [vinod]

davb: the windoze solution (that's how i usually fix things that are frustrating me) :-)

20:38:04 [davb]

I _know_ I did things in a non-ideal manner, and I have learned alot since I first installed debian.

20:39:37 [vinod]

i know what you mean - my powerbook install was initially linuxppc and then i somehow forced debian in piece-by-piece

20:40:01 [davb]

nope postgresql is still hosed.

20:40:13 [davb]

argh.

20:40:29 [davb]

I wonder if I have any valuable data on this parition :)

20:40:36 [vinod]

haha

20:42:20 [vinod]

there's a debug option in /usr/local/pgsql/data/postgresql.conf called debug_level (set it to 16 and get tons of crap). might help?

20:42:50 [davb]

Maybe I shall. I had it on 3, but it was not quite informative enough for me to fix it

20:44:10 [davb]

nothing...

20:44:18 [davb]

it doesnt say anythign useful.

20:44:28 [vinod]

darn

20:47:19 [johnseq]

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20:48:45 [jim]

rbm: would you like sponsorship into debian maint status?

20:51:03 [davb]

davb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

21:03:16 [jim]

rbm: Hi. you here?

21:04:06 [vinod]

it think he's refueling - <rbm> I'm going to eat something. brb.

21:04:18 [vinod]

s/it/i

21:04:27 [jim]

ok...

21:04:48 [jim]

* jim is determining how to get rbm in as debian maintainer...

21:05:08 [jim]

one approach would be not-maint, have-sponsor

21:06:14 [vinod]

jim: are you a maintainer?

21:06:19 [jim]

yes

21:06:26 [vinod]

cool - which pkgs?

21:06:49 [jim]

I wrote some peripheral progs, packaged em

21:07:03 [jim]

animals, members, a few others

21:07:05 [AaronSw-UK]

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21:07:13 [jim]

one I didn't write is cgiwrap

21:07:26 [vinod]

was it a long process to get approved as a maintainer?

21:08:24 [jim]

for myself, no... not really long... but, for some it's taken longer than a year

21:11:17 [ola]

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21:24:58 [vinod]

cool - just apt-got animals. i remember playing that on my apple iie years ago :-)

21:28:14 [vinod]

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21:46:25 [talli]

talli (~talli@ip64-75-147-49.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs

21:46:36 [talli]

hey guys

21:46:44 [talli]

jim: did john get a hold of you?

21:46:52 [jim]

yes :)

21:47:02 [talli]

great

21:47:12 [talli]

his response when i told him about your project was "AWESOME!!!"

21:47:17 [jim]

I rambled in a somewhat controled way...

21:47:26 [jim]

then gave him some links to look at...

21:47:36 [jim]

cool :)

21:48:12 [jim]

rbm: stillrefuling?

21:50:39 [talli]

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21:50:50 [jim]

OK, replaced pg 7.1.2 with pg 7.1.3...

21:56:28 [jim]

did all tests

22:07:38 [jim]

installed.

22:15:10 [rbm]

jim: hey there

22:15:17 [jim]

hi.

22:15:26 [rbm]

jim: What do you mean sponsorship?

22:15:45 [rbm]

I'm not familiar with the process of becoming a maintainer yet. Haven't gotten that far down the doc.s

22:15:49 [rbm]

s/doc.s/docs/

22:16:53 [jim]

ok, first: it's not -strictly- necessary for you to become maint... under this arrangement, a debian maint would check and upload pkgs for you...

22:17:31 [jim]

or you can do it if you yourself go for maintship (you would then have a lot to learn)

22:18:31 [jim]

in answer direct: a sponsor is the debian developer who checks your package and uploads it

22:19:07 [jim]

one question, do you reside in US jurisdiction?

22:19:31 [rbm]

Currently yes. I'm from Brazil but I'm studying in Utah right now (getting my BS in CS)

22:19:38 [jim]

ahh

22:19:51 [jim]

future plans?

22:20:10 [rbm]

Hopefully go back to Brazil. It all depends where I get a job :)

22:20:16 [jim]

gotcha

22:20:48 [rbm]

I'm going to go for a Masters starting next fall, so that should be I should be done with studies by 2003 or 2004.

22:21:08 [jim]

did you do the MIT thing?

22:21:28 [jim]

I'm assuming you went there when you and Ben were student?

22:21:30 [jim]

s

22:21:54 [rbm]

Heh. MIT... I wish.

22:22:21 [rbm]

MIT is too expensive for me. I was lucky to get a scholarship to pay for my BS here at Utah State University.

22:22:50 [rbm]

Ben is on leave for his doctorate from MIT (I think)

22:23:18 [jim]

Calling Docter Fine, Doctor Howard, Doctor Fine...

22:23:37 [jim]

(old 3 stooges routine :)

22:25:42 [jim]

OK. You can apply for maint, get advocate/sponsor, eventually get accepted as debian devel, or let another debian devel (perhaps Brent) sponsor your pkgs without you being maint...

22:25:55 [jim]

which you want to do?

22:27:43 [rbm]

hmmm

22:28:14 [rbm]

How long does it take to be "accepted" as debian developer.

22:28:20 [rbm]

s/\./?/

22:30:17 [jim]

could be long time. year is not unheard of

22:30:39 [rbm]

WOW!

22:30:49 [rbm]

Why does it take that long?

22:31:02 [jim]

but: you would maintain pkgs anyways no matter how you looked at it

22:31:26 [rbm]

Do you have to take tests to become a maintainer?

22:31:48 [jim]

originally, there were only a handful of people whose job it was to interview/process new maints

22:32:03 [jim]

I think it's better now, not sure

22:32:12 [jim]

not sure about the tests

22:32:49 [rbm]

interesting.

22:32:52 [jim]

for one, you have established track record as free-software advocate, you likely read the GPL more than once...

22:33:22 [rbm]

So perhaps the best way would be for me to have a sponsor until I'm eventually accepted as a maintainer.

22:33:54 [rbm]

jim: That's easy. I founded the USU Free Software and Linux Club 3 years ago, was its president for the first year and have been an officer since.

22:35:14 [rbm]

I visualized, and with the help of several others, organized and promoted 2 University-level Free Software and Linux Forums. First one had Richard Stallman as keynote speaker, and the second one had Bruce Perens.

22:35:29 [rbm]

Next year we'll have Jon Maddog Hall it appears.

22:35:47 [jim]

yes, maybe that is best... either way, you'd maintain pkgs...

22:36:26 [jim]

(note: to pass policy, your packages won't be able to touch /usr/local in significant ways)

22:36:27 [rbm]

That's cool that Debian is so careful about its maintainers. The more I get to know Debian, the more I like it.

22:36:38 [rbm]

jim: That's okay.

22:37:15 [rbm]

Maybe I should stop by #debian sometime.

22:39:02 [jim]

yes, I'm now trying to get BenC's attn

22:40:12 [rbm]

in #debian?

22:40:19 [jim]

umm

22:40:25 [jim]

by /msg

22:40:32 [rbm]

I just joined

22:40:33 [jim]

he's current debian project leader

22:41:41 [rbm]

jim: You're already a maintainer rigth?

22:41:50 [jim]

yes

22:42:21 [rbm]

So how about you "adopt" the AOLserver packages and you become my "sponsor"?

22:42:31 [jim]

I can do that

22:42:43 [rbm]

Then we can see about packaging openacs-4

22:42:59 [rbm]

We could package nsopenssl, ns_xml and other AOLserver modules.

22:43:05 [jim]

there's one problem for me...

22:43:14 [rbm]

what?

22:43:22 [jim]

I don't have machines enough to get away from the stable released debian

22:43:47 [rbm]

I have machines running unstable. I could get another running testing.

22:45:50 [jim]

rbm: does oracle-8.1.6 run ok on sid?

22:46:11 [rbm]

jim: Yes. It's been a while since I installed it, but it did last I tried.

22:46:21 [rbm]

I think I installed 8.1.7 actually.

22:46:38 [rbm]

That reminds me I should install it again sometime.

22:54:17 [jim]

* jim is arranging to get a sid going

23:40:53 [jim]

ok, updating said machine

23:47:14 [jim]

upgrading its packages gonna take awhile