IRC log of openacs on 2001-12-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:12 [talli]
the monitor for a dell laptop. C600
00:00:25 [rbm]
talli: The driver should be the "ati" driver.
00:00:30 [rbm]
talli: That's the driver I use.
00:01:05 [Psychephylax]
i have an idea
00:01:41 [rbm]
talli: What's the laptop model? Dimension?
00:01:41 [Psychephylax]
my dad angers me
00:02:08 [Psychephylax]
he just called me up...only to ask if anyone called him, well knowing nobody likes him and nobody calls him *sigh*
00:02:17 [talli]
dell latitude C600 with a 14.1 screen
00:04:57 [rbm]
talli: I can't find any useful info about it on dell's website
00:05:29 [rbm]
talli: Time to use your included Dell support and ask.
00:05:41 [talli]
yeah, i know. :(
00:05:50 [talli]
thanks for checking, though
00:06:16 [talli]
redhat works
00:06:16 [talli]
since dell bundles with redhat
00:06:22 [talli]
but i don't want to run redhat, i don't trust it for some reason
00:06:31 [Psychephylax]
heh
00:06:49 [Psychephylax]
Roberto, I did go to the debian site looking for their images..but I could not find any ISO images
00:07:21 [rbm]
Psychephylax: Grab the boot floppies, and install from floppies.
00:07:22 [talli]
anyway, i'll be back. gotta go eat with my folks
00:07:32 [rbm]
Psychephylax: Or you can try cdimage.debian.org
00:07:42 [talli]
* talli is away: eating wid da folks
00:07:42 [talli]
* talli is away: eating wid da folks
00:07:56 [Psychephylax]
heh
00:08:02 [Psychephylax]
I don't have any floppies
00:09:26 [Psychephylax]
[#openacs]
00:09:28 [Psychephylax]
I don
00:09:51 [Psychephylax]
I don't need no pseudo-image thing I need the real thing
00:10:29 [jim]
Psychephylax: it -is- the real thing.
00:10:46 [Psychephylax]
It requires use of floppies
00:10:56 [Psychephylax]
I do not OWN any usable floppies
00:11:02 [Psychephylax]
I own about 300 blank cds though
00:11:06 [jim]
netinst
00:11:14 [Psychephylax]
and a 4.5 minute burner
00:11:26 [Psychephylax]
and I can download their ISO in about 5 minutes as well
00:11:43 [jim]
howbout downloading a much smaller image, burning that, and installing the base from that?
00:11:45 [Psychephylax]
how do you suppose I netinst without a floppy
00:11:57 [Psychephylax]
i don't trust net installs ;)
00:12:14 [jim]
see, that's a major waste of bw that debian cd mirror admins pay for
00:13:01 [jim]
debian just doesn't get $56mil/year or especially /project :)
00:13:34 [Psychephylax]
heh
00:13:42 [Psychephylax]
well, it's inconveniencing me :p
00:13:51 [jim]
awww :)
00:14:08 [rbm]
Psychephylax: How about you donate 50 grand to the debian project. I'm sure with that donation they'd be happy to give you a CD image.
00:14:29 [Psychephylax]
how about I download one of the other distributions that does offer me an ISO :p
00:14:34 [jim]
they'll -deliver- you cd images, disks or masters :)
00:14:47 [jim]
run what works best for ya :)
00:14:48 [Psychephylax]
yes, infact, they will probably install it for me too
00:15:02 [rbm]
This is a free world (mostly). You do what you please. Debian is not really actively seeking new users.
00:15:08 [Psychephylax]
but first, I don't have 50 G's
00:16:09 [Psychephylax]
mmmm....850Kbs
00:17:46 [davb]
* davb is jealous of Psychephylax's bandwidth.
00:17:49 [Psychephylax]
[#openacs] 't n[#openacs]e
00:17:59 [davb]
roadrunner maxes out at about 200Kbs
00:18:01 [Psychephylax]
heh
00:18:01 [rbm]
WTH?
00:18:19 [Psychephylax]
oooh...it jumped to 915
00:19:41 [davb]
that reminds me. I have to burn a few Linux CDs to bring to the computer club.
00:20:08 [Psychephylax]
you geek
00:20:09 [Psychephylax]
lol
00:20:10 [Psychephylax]
:-D
00:22:46 [davb]
has anyone installed ETP with a recent CVS checkout?
00:23:34 [rbm]
Why, oh why did ArsDigita decide to write their documentation in XML?
00:23:54 [rbm]
s/XML/Docbook XML/
00:23:59 [davb]
I think the policy was to use the most complicated process to impress the clients.
00:24:08 [rbm]
It would have been so much easier to do it in Docbook SGML
00:25:35 [davb]
but that is what everyone else does :)
00:25:48 [davb]
Are you doing the OpenACS docs in Docbook?
00:26:03 [davb]
Why is Docbook XML worse than DOcbook SGML?
00:26:59 [talli]
* talli is no longer away
00:27:39 [Psychephylax]
All languages that end in ML are evil ;-)
00:27:40 [rbm]
Because the SGML tools are much more mature and better documented than the XML counterparts.
00:28:35 [rbm]
If we were using SGML I would have at least 2 very good sources of documentation to point people to and to ask questions from: the PostgreSQL team and the Linux Documentation Project
00:28:58 [davb]
Aha.
00:29:05 [rbm]
We're using XML, and I haven't seen _anyone_ that uses Docbook XML.
00:29:21 [davb]
would it be impossible to switch now?
00:29:26 [Psychephylax]
What happened to regular text :)
00:29:30 [talli]
would you guys like to see the next generation ETP?
00:29:34 [rbm]
I've tried. Several times.
00:29:40 [davb]
talli: yes
00:29:53 [davb]
also how far away is it? I was going to build a site with the current one.
00:30:00 [davb]
but I can wait a little.
00:30:18 [talli]
jun yamog has done a great job rebuilding the interface
00:30:24 [davb]
cool.
00:30:48 [talli]
there needs to be some clean up done, so when luke gets back he's going to integrate the changes into ETP
00:31:28 [talli]
jun's work uses pretty much just luke's prior work - he hasn't really touched the internals. that's because luke kicks ass.
00:31:35 [davb]
cool. it looks great. I really like the icons.
00:31:41 [davb]
that is true.
00:31:42 [talli]
he did rebuild the interface, though, and did an amazing job at it too
00:32:08 [davb]
I like the templat selection drop down. that is really nice.
00:32:20 [talli]
brb
00:32:28 [davb]
ok.
00:32:52 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:37:29 [talli]
talli (~talli@ip64-75-146-211.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs
00:38:30 [hazmat]
hazmat (~ender@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
00:51:36 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is trying to use vi]
00:54:18 [davb]
fun isn't it
00:54:53 [davb]
:)
00:55:02 [Psychephylax]
oh yeah
00:55:10 [Psychephylax]
eVIl
00:55:18 [Psychephylax]
there's a reason why vi is called vi
00:56:41 [davb]
heh
00:56:44 [davb]
it works.
00:57:00 [Psychephylax]
ee, pico, joe, ed, emacs they all work too
01:01:42 [Psychephylax]
heh
01:01:52 [Psychephylax]
I only got 2 Cs in my CS courses
01:02:11 [Psychephylax]
all other ones are in stupid courses like history and other BS courses
01:05:00 [Psychephylax]
bbl
01:05:04 [Psychephylax]
i hope
01:47:38 [rbm]
Errr. What's wrong with new-file-storage?
01:47:38 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:47:52 [rbm]
Talli!
02:29:39 [rbm]
moo
02:30:01 [rbm]
* rbm feels better now that he made that last post to the bboards
02:35:41 [beattiek]
thx rbm
02:41:34 [rbm]
hey beattiek
02:47:43 [beattiek]
hey
02:47:57 [beattiek]
i'm quick, 6 minutes
02:49:40 [beattiek]
rbm: what linux are you using? (if any)
02:51:32 [rbm]
beattiek: I use Linux 98% of the time I'm using a computer.
02:51:42 [beattiek]
yeah, what flavor?
02:51:44 [rbm]
beattiek: I run Debian sid.
02:51:53 [beattiek]
interesting
02:52:02 [beattiek]
hmm
02:52:25 [beattiek]
do you know if anyone is considering managing OACS for debian?
02:52:31 [rbm]
I see you're on #debian
02:52:37 [rbm]
The package?
02:52:40 [beattiek]
yeah
02:52:42 [beattiek]
officialy
02:52:52 [rbm]
I thought there was someone managing the 3.2.x package
02:52:58 [beattiek]
yeah, kinda
02:53:08 [beattiek]
it is poorly managed
02:53:18 [beattiek]
well, i think it is.
02:53:21 [rbm]
roberto@brasileiro:/back/docs/nwalsh$ apt-cache show openacs
02:53:23 [rbm]
Package: openacs
02:53:28 [rbm]
Maintainer: Eric Van Buggenhaut <ericvb@debian.org>
02:53:35 [rbm]
Oh.
02:54:10 [rbm]
One of the things in my TODO list is to learn how to create debian packages.
02:54:17 [beattiek]
when you install it it just dumps an install script and some files on your computer
02:54:31 [beattiek]
and the script didn't work for me
02:54:32 [rbm]
I haven't tried to install the package to be honest.
02:54:40 [beattiek]
well i was just testing
02:54:52 [beattiek]
i wanted OACS 4 anyway
02:54:57 [beattiek]
but it is disapointing
02:55:08 [rbm]
The original package was written by Brent Fulgham, then Eric took it over.
02:55:22 [beattiek]
i think you should be able to apt-get install openacs-4 and thats is
02:55:27 [beattiek]
is = it
02:55:34 [rbm]
Are you planning to use 4.x? It'd be awesome to have a Deb package of 4.x
02:55:43 [beattiek]
i'm using it now
02:55:49 [rbm]
excellent
02:56:54 [rbm]
If you can whip up a 4.x package, that'd be most excellent.
02:57:48 [beattiek]
hmm, i'll try to whip it up, i'm newish to debian but i have made a package before...
02:58:27 [rbm]
Talk to Eric about the 3.x package and his feeling of a 4.x package. You may be able to work together and help each other.
02:58:35 [beattiek]
It would be nice if there was a version of postgres with the driver included
02:58:49 [beattiek]
in debian that is
02:58:52 [rbm]
the AOLserver driver?
02:59:01 [beattiek]
yes
02:59:22 [beattiek]
I think in debian everything should work if you type apt-get openacs-4
02:59:59 [rbm]
Hmm. I thought there was an aolserver-postgres package, upon which openacs depended.
03:00:00 [beattiek]
well maybe the install should be in there :
03:00:18 [beattiek]
nope.
03:00:24 [beattiek]
i don't think
03:00:43 [rbm]
We should talk to Brent about this then.
03:00:51 [beattiek]
Depends: aolserver, postgresql, postgresql-client, libpgtcl, perl5
03:03:09 [beattiek]
I actualy couldn't get the driver to compile, so i just used someone elses.
03:03:41 [beattiek]
but if i get a nack for making debian packages, I would like to package the whole OACS 4
03:04:34 [beattiek]
then once the psets are revised, and the beginers manual is complete, It might be tought in some schools.
03:11:06 [rbm]
that'd be great
03:26:30 [rbm]
bbl
03:29:02 [jim]
beattiek: I can tell you where to start looking... Normally,
03:30:26 [jim]
I'd suggest contacting the maintainer who has in the past packaged pieces that make up openacs (*, aolserver, pg) Brent Fulgham, however he's unreceptive to problem reports
03:33:38 [jim]
there are many ways to start learning to package... one good way, is get gnu hello source, read every file, then get several versions of gnu hello as packaged in debian (i.e., its source for each version). each will expose a different mode of packaging, or packaging for a specific version of debian for which certain specific features exist.
03:34:55 [jim]
another aspect, is what's available in debian's base (marked as base or essential or both); you're guaranteed the presence of them
03:36:02 [jim]
some shells, an editor or two, grep, a carving of perl meant for the base of debian, problem-solving tools.
03:37:43 [jim]
there is a pretty well-factored tool used to carry out little specific pieces of package installs, removes, builds, called debhelper... it has a largish handful of small tools each having a man page
03:38:17 [jim]
other than that... http://www.debian.org/devel/ is the developer's corner
03:39:22 [jim]
there is a mailing list, debian-mentors, meant for packaging questions. archives and signup at http://lists.debian.org
03:50:32 [Psychephylax]
bah!
03:51:00 [Psychephylax]
Is it too much to ask for an ability to boot Linux, XP and Win2K from one menu without having to do weird things?
03:53:25 [jim]
did you take SICP?
03:53:52 [Psychephylax]
SICP?
03:54:00 [Psychephylax]
No, I took a sledgehammer to my computers...or about to
03:54:23 [Psychephylax]
Damn it!
03:54:26 [Psychephylax]
HAL is missing
03:54:54 [jim]
*shrug* at some point, you'll need to understand aspects of your computer... its hardware and how it boots are two
03:55:24 [Psychephylax]
I know HOW it boots
03:55:34 [Psychephylax]
the problem is trying to combine all these things correctly
03:55:43 [Psychephylax]
XP lost HAL
03:55:59 [Psychephylax]
See what happens when you let XP have ANY responsibility?!
03:57:03 [jim]
see, microsoft claims ownership of several aspects of your computer in the name of making things simple for you, one of those is the master boot record
03:57:15 [beattiek]
:P
03:57:50 [jim]
the unfortunate consequence of that, is it will rewrite the boot record if it thinks it's been changed
03:58:16 [jim]
in order to make sure it's the only thing that can boot
03:58:43 [beattiek]
jim: you have made .debs right?
03:58:51 [jim]
yeah, a few
03:59:33 [jim]
I guess you probably should talk to Brent, or look at his packaging of openacs3
03:59:38 [beattiek]
yeah
03:59:43 [beattiek]
well
04:00:01 [beattiek]
okay
04:00:34 [jim]
but remember that bug in the aolserver pg driver, where if aolserver called up a non-existant table, aolserver would die without terminating?
04:01:24 [jim]
this was a year or three ago
04:03:56 [jim]
(if you don't set up your openacs correctly, and tables or views are missing, it's not nice to crash and never serve another page again just because some aolserver thread/tcl script called up one of those tables...
04:04:42 [jim]
) anyway, I reported this bug to Brent, and he -refused- to even consider that it might exist
04:05:12 [jim]
as of that moment, I built my own: aolserver, postgres, driver
04:05:40 [jim]
and never used/trusted his packages again
04:13:25 [beattiek]
rbm: are you still around"
04:14:35 [beattiek]
jim: I don't blame you
04:15:06 [jim]
well, the packages were useless with a bug like that...
04:16:00 [jim]
for my purposes, anyway... and the purposes of anyone connecting that aolserver to the postgres in that dist
04:16:07 [jim]
6.5.3 or somethnig
04:16:20 [jim]
something
04:18:15 [jim]
and getting the brick-wall treatment from the maintainer didn't exactly garner my trust
04:22:09 [beattiek]
I need to give this package a configurable install.
04:41:15 [jim]
ok, hang onto your hat, the best thing to do is look into debconf
04:41:58 [jim]
it's a mechanism for deferring and storing common questions asked in service of install of multiple packages
04:45:47 [rbm]
moo
04:46:06 [jim]
hiya
04:46:48 [rbm]
jim: I read the backlog. I've talked to Brent before about taking ownership of the aolserver packages. He seemed okay with thta.
04:47:40 [talli]
talli (~talli@ip64-75-146-64.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs
04:47:42 [rbm]
I'd love to have good aolserver+openacs packages
04:48:52 [rbm]
The aolserver-postgres package seems to be up for adoption: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/rfa_bypackage
04:48:53 [jim]
rbm: ok, that might be a cool thing... I'm not sure how it works, but under certain conditions, software authors can get maint status
04:49:09 [talli]
talli has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:49:11 [jim]
izzat so :)
04:49:22 [rbm]
and aolserver too
04:49:33 [jim]
he orphaned em?
04:49:57 [rbm]
I would like to find a maintainer (preferably outside the US) who could
04:49:57 [rbm]
take over AOLserver. This would allow the packaging of SSL and other
04:49:57 [rbm]
security modules.
04:49:58 [rbm]
-Brent
04:50:41 [jim]
maybe you and ben would be interested in talking to debian about maintaining ocs/oacs in debian
04:52:11 [rbm]
Yeah. I've never done a package though.
04:54:00 [rbm]
* rbm attempts to learn how to create Debian packages
04:54:43 [jim]
you can look at packages from the opposite end than from the source...
04:54:47 [jim]
a .deb
04:54:51 [jim]
is an ar
04:54:58 [rbm]
I know
04:55:12 [rbm]
But packaging them into a deb is what I don't know
04:55:51 [jim]
there's nothing as refined as problem sets to learn from
04:56:23 [jim]
but in the scroll back I wrote up a buncha packaging stuff
04:56:31 [jim]
plus, you could ask for a mento
04:56:32 [jim]
r
04:59:18 [rbm]
Cool.
04:59:43 [jim]
did you see all that stuff? :)
04:59:43 [rbm]
I think the psets are very important for OACS. I hope someone takes over "porting" them to OACS 4 (*hint hint*)
04:59:59 [rbm]
yep.
05:00:04 [jim]
I don't -know- oacs 4 :P
05:00:16 [jim]
however...
05:00:38 [rbm]
I envision the psets as part of a "Beginners' Guide"
05:01:46 [jim]
if someone wants to do a slow bootcamp... "<rbm> ... (*hint hint*)"
05:02:14 [jim]
like over the net here, so I could take and alter and such
05:02:36 [jim]
kill two birdies with one bogey!
05:02:40 [rbm]
a bootcamp?
05:02:55 [jim]
analogous to,
05:03:19 [rbm]
There's not that needs to be changed from the ACS 4.x psets to the OACS 4.x psets, really.
05:03:27 [rbm]
s/not/not much/
05:03:46 [rbm]
Wife called. Gotta go get her at work.
05:03:48 [rbm]
bbl
05:03:51 [jim]
ok
05:08:42 [davb]
jim: we already dicussed the IRC/bboard boot camp right?
05:09:03 [jim]
to some degree
05:09:35 [davb]
Ok. I think its probably the best way to approach it without a centralized entity to run a bootcamp.
05:10:09 [davb]
Actually linux.org or someplace has IRC Linux installfests. I thought it would be good to get volunteers to hang out here after the release for an OpenACS 4 installfest.
05:10:36 [davb]
IRC is more receptive to little annoying questions. You don't want your silly mistake emailed to 100s of people :)
05:11:19 [davb]
Possibly even a FAQ bot so we wouldn't have to keep typing the answers to the common questions.
05:13:25 [beattiek]
davb: thats a good idea
05:14:32 [davb]
if I can get a couple volunteers :)
05:14:55 [davb]
Probably a debian, redhat, etc...
05:15:19 [jim]
this thing run on mac osx or win?
05:15:26 [davb]
OS X yes.
05:15:29 [davb]
Win, maybe.
05:15:57 [davb]
AOLserver support on windows is iffy. AOLserver 4.0 removes all support for windows (if it is ever released)
05:16:45 [talli]
talli (~talli@ip64-75-146-69.dial.maui.net) has joined #openacs
05:16:55 [jim]
not released yet? lessee, ok, aD bought aolserver... hmmm, can't depend on that
05:17:08 [davb]
?
05:17:11 [talli]
hey guys
05:17:16 [beattiek]
hey talli
05:17:19 [davb]
hi talli
05:17:49 [talli]
is rbm still here?
05:18:09 [davb]
According to the AOL developers, the windows support was messy. Taking it out made it better on the other platforms.
05:18:16 [beattiek]
<rbm> Wife called. Gotta go get her at work.
05:18:16 [beattiek]
<rbm> bbl
05:18:28 [talli]
ah, thanks
05:18:55 [beattiek]
that was 15 minutes ago.
05:19:15 [davb]
talli: does that upload a file thing add a new ETP page? (on that demo site)
05:19:22 [talli]
the fact that the aol guys took out win support is totally understandable, but a bit of a bummer. i know of at least one person who is porting OACS to win
05:19:39 [talli]
hmm... the upload a file thing...
05:19:52 [talli]
lemme check some of the emails between luke and jun
05:20:04 [davb]
no big deal, just curious :)
05:20:13 [talli]
i know it was an issue they were discussing about how to implement picture attachments
05:20:21 [talli]
i don't know if it goes into the DB
05:20:24 [davb]
that too :)
05:21:09 [davb]
jim: the documentation status report has a potential Win2000 install guide, no volunteer to write it yet.
05:23:43 [talli]
jim, if you're interested in the win stuff, i suggest you email john sequiera who is currently porting OACS to work on SQL2000 or SQL Server, whatever it's called
05:23:51 [talli]
his email is johnseq@pobox.com
05:24:55 [davb]
wow!
05:25:10 [davb]
that would be cool. I might be able to sneak it in at work someday.
05:25:16 [talli]
john is a HARDCORE programmer. he's great
05:25:43 [talli]
he's a big perl fan so he hacked together some scripts to suck out the special stuff
05:26:04 [talli]
and he gets a lot of gigs that are win based and he would like to use the OACS
05:26:15 [davb]
really amazing.
05:26:25 [jim]
* jim began work on a project to let perl be an aolserver language
05:26:33 [davb]
also nifty.
05:26:56 [talli]
jim, i would DEFINITELY suggest talking to john then
05:27:08 [talli]
he loves perl, as it seems you do as well
05:27:47 [talli]
i know there are others that would really like to work on rebuilding some of the core pieces of OACS in python using pywx
05:28:29 [davb]
it would be really interesting, if modules could be in different languages.
05:28:43 [davb]
not necessarily efficient, but interesting :)
05:29:00 [talli]
that might become a big mess, if it did happen. just to maintain continuity between the modules
05:29:19 [talli]
but python is a much more feature complete language, and it's got a much bigger community
05:29:41 [talli]
i do really worry about tcl, only because there are about three or four people working on improving the language
05:29:59 [davb]
too bad AOLserver wasn't designed to allow pluggable lanaguages.
05:30:11 [jim]
yeah... if Phil's vision was any guiding light, you have as few languages as possible and stick with them
05:30:15 [davb]
The tcl is embedded deep into AOLserver.
05:30:50 [jim]
I embedded perl to a similar depth
05:30:54 [davb]
That idea is more generic AOLserver than specific to OpenACS.
05:31:03 [davb]
Really? Not as a module?
05:31:16 [jim]
yes, it is a modules
05:31:32 [jim]
originally, it wasn't
05:31:33 [davb]
It will get great to see that code.
05:31:44 [talli]
i think that philg's vision for the ACS was actually to be rather agnostic as far as languages.
05:31:51 [jim]
sourceforge.net/projects/perl-aol
05:31:58 [davb]
I have yet to learn C, but have heard that it's written nicely.
05:32:22 [talli]
i spoke to him once and he said he wanted to maintain the data model, but he didn't care so much about the languages.
05:32:33 [talli]
so he wanted one written in java, in VB, in tcl, etc.
05:32:35 [jim]
then why was he resistant to java?
05:32:40 [talli]
that would have been a nightmare
05:32:47 [talli]
he wasn't resistant to java, AFAIK
05:32:58 [talli]
in fact, he had jin port ACS3.4 to java at one point
05:33:17 [davb]
the datamodel is the most important part.
05:33:46 [jim]
agreed
05:34:24 [jim]
someone should test the create or replace procedure thing of pg
05:34:50 [talli]
jim, have you looked at pywx at all?
05:34:52 [jim]
(create fn a, fn b that calls a, replace a... boom?)
05:35:09 [jim]
no, sure haven;t, nor at python
05:35:56 [talli]
http://pywx.idyll.org/
05:35:56 [chump]
A: http://pywx.idyll.org/ from talli
05:36:06 [talli]
anlater: python module for AOLserver
05:36:18 [talli]
anlater: python module for AOLserver
05:36:19 [davb]
use a big A
05:36:23 [talli]
i did
05:36:28 [davb]
A: python module for AOLserver
05:36:28 [chump]
commented item A
05:36:34 [talli]
anyway, jim check it out
05:36:38 [davb]
:)
05:36:50 [talli]
it might interest you insofar as your development of the perl module
05:36:56 [jim]
talli: the completion got you
05:37:04 [talli]
pywx is fairly mature, and i've heard GREAT things about it
05:37:26 [talli]
yeah, i'm using a new IRC client, which is very cool, but it does things differently
05:37:41 [talli]
anyone ever use Klient on win boxen?
05:37:51 [jim]
I noticed it, it started a bit after I started; I ran into problems, back back burnered the code
05:38:11 [talli]
i noticed that there are notes about your progress from oct 2000
05:38:45 [talli]
btw, if you have a page on debian.org, why are you worried about OACS on win? i came into the win convo late
05:39:09 [davb]
never heard of it. I have been using Chatzilla.
05:39:22 [jim]
yeah... I changed the internal data structures around, and the object destructors started crashing aolserver...
05:39:36 [jim]
haven't gotten back to it yet
05:39:59 [talli]
davb: http://www.klient.com
05:40:18 [jim]
had a new "bright idea" about how to implement the aolserver structures... hasn't worked well
05:41:04 [talli]
hmmm... like i said, talk to john sequiera
05:41:05 [talli]
i'll send an intro email, if you would like
05:41:09 [talli]
john is hardcore
05:41:19 [jim]
well, I don't like windows much... but if oacs' goals include a port to it, I shouldn't stand in its way
05:41:42 [jim]
is he deep into the internals?
05:41:53 [jim]
of perl that is
05:42:20 [talli]
he may be
05:42:28 [jim]
my problem was one of reference counting
05:42:30 [talli]
he's one of those freaks that likes to look at shit like that for fun
05:43:34 [jim]
yeah, I was into parsing algorithms pretty deeply when I was a kid
05:44:37 [jim]
got into lisp pretty heavily, got a copy of "Anatomy of Lisp", did some of the evaluators
05:44:52 [talli]
well, john is married, so he has no excuse
05:45:33 [davb]
Time for me to depart.
05:45:42 [jim]
seeya davb
05:45:46 [davb]
bye
05:45:49 [davb]
davb has quit ("I'm too lame to make a quit message")
05:46:23 [talli]
all right. i need to go shower.
05:46:28 [talli]
just got off the beach :)
05:46:48 [talli]
anyway, jim i suggest you ping john to intro yourself, or i can do it if you would like
05:47:01 [talli]
i think he would be really into the perl module because he prefers developing in perl
05:47:19 [talli]
if he could plug into aolserver with perl he would be real excited
05:47:59 [talli]
like i said, his email is johnseq@pobox.com
05:48:02 [jim]
I was looking into having perl scripts be aolserver config files
05:48:14 [talli]
cool
05:48:19 [talli]
all right, talk to you guys later
05:48:25 [talli]
have a good night
05:48:27 [jim]
seeya talli
05:48:30 [talli]
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16:28:44 [jim]
* jim counts the rbms... oh, there's just one :)
16:58:52 [beattiek]
Good Morning Neverland!
16:59:55 [beattiek]
Hey Loggy, Chump.
17:00:05 [beattiek]
oh, and real people.
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17:05:17 [MysticOne]
[GloblaNotice] Hello all, just a quick reminder for everyone... If anyone asks you to join #secrets, please do not. Due to some problems with a bunch of clone bots joining that particular channel, an automatic kline is issued for any user/host that attemps to join that channel. We've had a large number of people join this channel by mistake and get klined. So, do yourself a favor, and don't attempt it. Hopefully the clones will die off at some point. Thank y
17:06:02 [jim]
heh, I watched pan yesterday
17:14:34 [beattiek]
pan?
17:16:09 [jim]
Peter Pan
17:16:49 [beattiek]
right.
17:17:40 [jim]
the guy who went to Neverland :)
17:18:02 [beattiek]
yeah
17:18:09 [beattiek]
i just woke up :)
17:18:16 [beattiek]
:P
17:18:31 [beattiek]
so how did you get draged into OACS?
17:18:58 [anlater]
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17:19:07 [beattiek]
hey anlater
17:19:18 [anlater]
hi
17:27:36 [jim]
well, I put up an openacs 3.something some years ago, couldn't understand it, went to acs 4 w/ oracle, got it working after a bootcamp and now waiting for oacs4 to stablize
17:29:04 [jim]
meanwhile trying to do some aduni curriculum, going thru the SICP stuff now
17:29:53 [jim]
trying to come up with continued fraction
17:37:47 [jim]
and discovering I need a subproc to count upwards...
17:38:15 [jim]
or maybe I should defer nothingness on the way down, and do all the work on the way up
17:39:34 [jim]
in a little while, if nothing else comes up, I'm gonna try installing oacs 4, and port all my present stuff to it, such as from the bootcamp
17:39:44 [jim]
(which is all I got so far...)
17:42:29 [jim]
I want to also play with acs java at some point, not sure I have time
18:08:35 [beattiek]
do you have certain goals for OACS?
18:11:41 [jim]
not yet
18:12:19 [jim]
right now, install it and port my stuff to it... rbm asked for porting the problem sets, so:
18:12:59 [jim]
my problem set answers (which I found) are for acs 4.2 or thereabouts
18:20:51 [ircMonkey]
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18:21:33 [jim]
I could port most of ps1 and about 2/3rds of ps2
18:22:43 [ircMonkey]
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18:23:39 [jim]
is oacs docs going to docbook?
18:28:07 [beattiek]
i hope so
18:34:43 [jim]
good, I got the book :)
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20:11:02 [rbm]
moo
20:11:21 [rbm]
Weird... I got disconnected and reconnected a bunch of times last night
20:11:40 [rbm]
Another weird thing... I woke up today thinking I was back in Brazil, for some reason.
20:12:27 [talli]
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20:13:15 [rbm]
hey talli
20:13:26 [rbm]
* rbm wonders if talli is really there
20:14:09 [talli]
hey rbm
20:14:09 [talli]
sorry, was going over the name change thread.
20:14:10 [talli]
brb. dad calling
20:14:51 [talli]
hey
20:14:51 [talli]
back
20:15:02 [talli]
rbm: you there now?
20:15:50 [rbm]
I don't know. Still trying to find out :)
20:16:11 [rbm]
I am going through my e-mail for the night
20:16:43 [rbm]
I tried to let you look at the Status document before I made it public last night, but you weren't here
20:18:00 [talli]
ah, i see
20:18:16 [talli]
thanks for the status page. it helps alot
20:18:27 [rbm]
What do you think of it? Suggestions?
20:18:27 [talli]
although, it also brings up a lot of questions...
20:18:38 [rbm]
That's the intent :)
20:18:53 [talli]
ah, yes, sorry about that
20:18:56 [talli]
i think it's ok though
20:19:09 [talli]
i have many questions that i will write up
20:19:22 [talli]
would you prefer that i post it on the thread or send it to you privately?
20:19:37 [rbm]
post it on the thread
20:20:07 [talli]
ok
20:20:10 [talli]
brb
20:28:44 [davb]
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20:29:09 [rbm]
I think I'll take ownership of the AOLserver Debian packages
20:29:38 [rbm]
hey davb. Using chatzilla eh?
20:29:52 [rbm]
I find 0.9.7 to be much more unstable than 0.9.6 ever was (although faster)
20:30:08 [davb]
yep. in windows at least. Its not bad. 0.9.7 is great. No debian package I could find though :(
20:30:43 [rbm]
Hm? 0.9.7 has been on Debian for a while
20:31:01 [rbm]
I need a Churrasco today
20:31:09 [rbm]
Too bad it's so cold outside
20:31:17 [rbm]
Heck, it's cold in here
20:32:30 [davb]
ok. I will have to check what I am doing wrong when I get back to it.
20:32:50 [davb]
what command is best to upgrade just Mozilla?
20:33:23 [davb]
either that or I have two copies, and I installed the new one, but I am running the old one :)
20:33:26 [rbm]
apt-get update
20:33:29 [rbm]
apt-get install mozilla
20:33:59 [rbm]
If you do that, and you already have mozilla installed and a new version is available, only mozilla will be upgraded
20:35:23 [davb]
ok i tried it. i think maybe I installed a non-debian mozilla once...
20:35:46 [davb]
thanks
20:36:12 [rbm]
np
20:37:06 [talli]
talli has quit ("See ya!")
20:38:15 [rbm]
there goes talli again
20:44:58 [rbm]
* rbm e-mails the AOLserver packages maintainer
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21:25:58 [talli]
rbm: you here?
21:26:49 [talli]
rbm: i just posted my response to the status doc
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22:13:11 [beattiek]
loggy, on
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