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09:13:07 <miguel> miguel (~miguel25@cancerbero.unileon.es) has joined #openacs
09:13:12 <miguel> hi guys!!!
09:13:19 <miguel> i need your help
12:01:43 <beattiek> miguel, your probably sleeping, and i don't think i could help you anyway, but hi :P
12:23:29 <miguel> no im not sleeping im in europe
12:23:53 <miguel> but im going for having lunch
12:23:56 <miguel> bye
12:28:40 <beattiek> bye...
12:29:00 <beattiek> oh, and sorry for assuming you were sleeping.
12:31:57 <miguel> no prob
12:33:26 <beattiek> <nod>
13:34:06 <talli> talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs
13:38:24 <djg> djg (~dirk@pD9E101EF.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openacs
13:42:36 <beattiek> hey djg
13:45:29 <davb> davb (~dave@208.136.23.203) has joined #openacs
13:45:39 <davb> Hello
13:47:41 <beattiek> hey dave
13:47:50 <beattiek> How are you?
13:48:56 <davb> Just fine thanks!
13:49:19 <beattiek> :)
13:49:30 <beattiek> saw LotR today.
13:49:36 <davb> spiffy!
13:49:52 <beattiek> yeah
13:49:53 <beattiek> it was
13:49:55 <davb> We haven't seen it yet. I am trying to read the book, but it's slow going.
13:50:03 <beattiek> I know
13:50:14 <beattiek> After I read the preface i was depressed
13:50:20 <davb> heh
13:50:27 <davb> yeah that part should be skipped.
13:50:32 <beattiek> It basicly said the book is gonna suck compared to the hobbit
13:50:45 <davb> heh
13:51:06 <beattiek> it did say that.
13:51:20 <davb> I must have skipped that part :)
13:51:24 <beattiek> hehe
13:53:16 <beattiek> hmmm. so what are you up to today?
14:00:45 <beattiek> something, at least :)
14:12:31 <talli> talli has left #openacs
14:35:54 <miguel> hi guys
14:56:07 <davb> oops, office breakfast... I'm back
14:56:10 <davb> hi miguel
14:56:30 <davb> I am now embarking again on the data-conversion project from Heck.
14:57:09 <miguel> he he he
14:57:12 <miguel> and how are u doing?
14:57:50 <davb> personally fine, the data is not as much fun 
15:00:29 <miguel> he he he
15:01:24 <miguel> i am using ns_schedule tcl script to stuff data into a table. I scheduled it to do it every 20 seconds but after a few executions, it doesnt schedule every 20 seconds...
15:07:37 <davb> weird. anything in the log?
15:08:07 <davb> sounds like the schedule thread is stuck. aolserver reserves 1 thread to run all scheduled procs in.
15:08:18 <davb> Is it possible its taking longer than 20 secs to run it once?
15:08:34 <davb> * davb wings it
15:09:16 <miguel> it could be, going to check the logs
15:09:20 <davb> ok.
15:12:12 <miguel> yes, i checked them and it was a problem due to permissions of the tcl script. I didnt notice and when i updated the tcl script the permissions changed
15:12:32 <miguel> thanks davb, didnt know that this information was logged
15:12:47 <beattiek> everything is logged:P
15:12:58 <beattiek> at least it should be.
15:13:11 <miguel> ok good to know
15:15:07 <davb> the logs are your friend. always check the logs :)
15:15:28 <davb> I spent 8 hours debugging my IMAP server, and the answer was in a log file I didn't know existed :)
15:15:44 <beattiek> if you are running a server on port 80 you need to started the server as root right?
15:15:59 <davb> topic #openacs Did you check the server log? http://openacs.org
15:16:02 <davb> beattiek: yes
15:16:18 <beattiek> i have always known this, but i don't know why
15:16:25 <davb> But you need to use the -u flag to have aolserver switch to the aolserver user after startup.
15:16:40 <beattiek> and i find that almost more important as the knwledge itself
15:16:50 <beattiek> yeah i know about the user stuff.
15:17:44 <beattiek> do you know why, Dave?
15:17:49 <davb> oh you want to know why? ports under 1024 are privileged and only root can access them.
15:17:54 <miguel> the log kepts on saying that cant find the file
15:18:02 <miguel> dont know what´s going on
15:18:10 <davb> it can't find the file :)
15:18:18 <talli> talli (~user@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
15:18:29 <davb> are you referencing the file with the full file path?
15:18:35 <miguel> no
15:18:39 <miguel> but it did work before
15:18:47 <davb> ok. that is weird.
15:19:03 <davb> did you restart the server after making a change? I can't see why that would matter but it might :)
15:19:17 <davb> brb meeting...
15:19:37 <miguel> ok ill try that
15:19:50 <beattiek> restarting stuff is always fun :)
15:20:10 <miguel> he he he
15:23:40 <miguel> nothing mate
15:26:07 <beattiek> It sounds like it's just a syntax error.
15:26:43 <beattiek> maybe try temporaraly using the full path to see if it works.
15:27:11 <miguel> ok
15:27:14 <beattiek> then if somthing else fails you will have a hint as to which variable is wrong
15:32:13 <miguel> i checked the tcl files and the owner is different: i got for all of them nsadmin.web but the two tcl files (the one with the ns_schedule_proc proc) and the tcl script have nsadmin.nsadmin
15:33:09 <davb> miguel: that should still be OK.
15:33:23 <davb> as aolserver usually runs as nsadmin.nsadmin
15:33:43 <davb> miguel: are you using daemontools to control aolserver? 
15:34:06 <miguel> and which permissions should i have? i got 775
15:34:32 <miguel> daemontools? nope, ive got a /etc/rc.d/ script
15:34:41 <davb> that works.
15:34:52 <davb> daemontools is nice because it will restart it if it dies.
15:35:05 <beattiek> Search
15:35:05 <beattiek> New Service-Contract based site-wide search tool.
15:35:22 <beattiek> what does this mean by Service-Contract based?
15:35:36 <davb> it uses the acs-service-contract system.
15:35:50 <davb> It is an abstractions layer so that packages can talk to one another.
15:36:03 <beattiek> i see.
15:36:21 <davb> For example, you could easily swap out the search engine (openFTS) by writing a new package the uses the search contracts.
15:36:35 <beattiek> so you need the Service-Contract package for this to work i guess?
15:36:38 <davb> No other packages use it yet.
15:36:43 <davb> its in the core.
15:36:47 <beattiek> okay.
15:36:47 <davb> automagically installed.
15:36:52 <beattiek> :P
15:37:01 <davb> make sure you read all the instructions carefully.
15:37:06 <beattiek> okay
15:37:06 <davb> I didn't :(
15:37:10 <beattiek> and...
15:38:02 <beattiek> damn, this channel is jumpin': 9 people!
15:38:25 <beattiek> what happened?
15:39:51 <davb> 7 people, 2 bots :)
15:41:00 <beattiek> right
15:41:10 <beattiek> bots are people too :P
15:41:30 <beattiek> <--- will be spared when AI takes over the world, Matrix style
15:41:57 <miguel> he he he
15:42:00 <miguel> frightening
15:42:22 <beattiek> What happened to you when you installed search dave?
15:44:25 <beattiek> miguel: what are you currently up to with OACS?
15:44:32 <beattiek> <--- chatterbox
15:44:47 <davb> beattiek:heh, it didn't work. 
15:44:51 <beattiek> i see
15:44:56 <miguel> what do u mean?
15:45:01 <davb> beattiek: you need the postgresql source code to compile the openfts driver.
15:45:13 <miguel> doesnt work guys, didnt fixed the schedule problem
15:45:15 <beattiek> does that mean you had to wipe the DB?
15:45:25 <davb> beattiek: also don't forget to install the inatarray for postgresql.
15:45:29 <davb> (its all in the docs)
15:45:38 <davb> miguel: weird.
15:45:54 <beattiek> miguel: I mean, what do you use OACS for?
15:46:09 <davb> miguel: start putting in ns_log notice "some useful information" all over the code.
15:46:11 <miguel> ok sorry for my english
15:46:42 <davb> miguel: all those go in the log. go ahead and put $variables in there to see what the value of them is at critical points etc..
15:46:49 <miguel> the system cant find the script. the funny thing is that it has been executed 20 minutes ago
15:46:51 <davb> then restart and run the server.
15:47:02 <davb> then start up emacs and open a shell Meta-X shell
15:47:14 <davb> miguel: tail -f /usr/local/aolserver/log/servername-error.log
15:47:33 <davb> then watch the log. its very handy to do it in emacs because you can scroll back and forth.
15:48:01 <miguel> beattiek: i am just a CS student learning OACS
15:48:02 <miguel> i am working now on the problem sets
15:48:07 <davb> I think its time for a general debugging OpenACS/AOLserver FAQ. with some of this handy info.
15:48:09 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@r-41.11.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
15:49:17 <Psychephylax> hi
15:49:23 <Psychephylax> damn it feels like 8 am
15:49:33 <davb> it is, in california :)
15:49:37 <markd2> I't's almost 8 on the west coast
15:50:36 <davb> brb
15:51:08 <Psychephylax> heh
15:51:17 <Psychephylax> ok, it feels like 8 am on a monday
15:52:58 <beattiek> miguel: Does your whole class have to learn OACS?
15:53:08 <miguel> he he he nope
15:53:24 <beattiek> where are you going to school?
15:53:37 <miguel> in spain
15:53:51 <beattiek> i guessed that :P what school?
15:53:52 <miguel> in leon for being more precise 
15:54:06 <miguel> you guessed that i was in Spain?
15:54:13 <miguel> why? my english is so bad?
15:54:14 <miguel> ;)
15:54:17 <beattiek> it's in your info
15:54:32 <miguel> ive got to check my security
15:54:33 <miguel> ;)
15:54:55 <miguel> university of leon, do u know where it is?
15:55:11 <beattiek> well leon i'm guessing :P
15:55:18 <Psychephylax> lol
15:55:27 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax puts 5$ on madrid
15:56:26 <miguel> he he he
15:56:33 <miguel> i meant you know where is leon
15:56:35 <Psychephylax> Stop that
15:56:44 <Psychephylax> from this day forth you will concatenate your he's
15:56:56 <miguel> why?
15:57:08 <Psychephylax> because many people use that ^^ for sarcasm :(
15:57:20 <miguel> ok
15:57:22 <beattiek> leon is in leon :P
15:57:25 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax thwaps markd2 
15:57:29 <miguel> maybe i was sarcastic ;)
15:57:30 <Psychephylax> no
15:57:31 <beattiek> like newyork
15:57:39 <Psychephylax> it's in Spain
15:58:20 <miguel> A grade for psyche in geography data
15:58:35 <Psychephylax> awwww yeah
15:58:58 <miguel> any idea how to locate that city? (extra credit question)
15:59:15 <beattiek> look at spain
15:59:27 <beattiek> then look in the top left corner
15:59:30 <Psychephylax> Look on a map?
15:59:55 <miguel> very good, you ever been up to spain beattiek? where r u?
15:59:55 <Psychephylax> This is OACS related? :p
16:00:04 <beattiek> Canada
16:00:08 <miguel> very very off-topic i guess
16:00:14 <Psychephylax> Fremch Canada
16:00:30 <miguel> c´est vrai monsieur?
16:00:40 <beattiek> oh, how are we about off topic chatter here?
16:00:53 <miguel> you started 
16:00:54 <miguel> ;)
16:01:00 <beattiek> i mean is it okay?
16:01:09 <beattiek> of course i started, i always chat
16:01:23 <davb> beattiek: you haven't been around long have you? :)
16:01:24 <miguel> hehehe <- thanks psyche for your lesson
16:01:30 <beattiek> nope
16:01:32 <davb> wait till rzolf comes back when talli is around.
16:01:36 <Psychephylax> What lesson?
16:01:37 <beattiek> but i have looked at the log
16:01:42 <beattiek> why dave?
16:01:44 <miguel> the he´s lesson
16:01:49 <beattiek> are they topic Nazis?
16:02:05 <davb> Oh no, just the opposite.
16:02:12 <davb> markd2: where's docwolf??
16:02:12 <miguel> (by the way i guess it should hes no apostroph right? )
16:02:12 <beattiek> oh, good
16:02:21 <davb> heh: -> topic Nazis?
16:02:32 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has changed the topic to: No Soup For you!
16:02:44 <Psychephylax> hehe
16:02:47 <beattiek> :P
16:03:13 <beattiek> no miguel
16:04:17 <davb> beattiek: they are the opposite. no channel can stay of topic if they are around :)
16:04:25 <beattiek> thats cool
16:04:27 <beattiek> just like me
16:04:42 <beattiek> well unless people want to be on topic
16:04:51 <beattiek> then i will shut my yap.
16:05:22 <miguel> by the way beattiek which city are you on and what do u use OACS for?
16:05:27 <davb> beattiek (and everyone else) BTW, this channel is publicly logged :)
16:05:27 <Psychephylax> Umm
16:05:56 <Psychephylax> what's them retirement plans called
16:06:09 <davb> 401k?
16:06:10 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax jabs a pen at loggy
16:06:10 <beattiek> RRSP?
16:06:17 <davb> IRA?
16:06:20 <Psychephylax> Which one
16:06:21 <Psychephylax> !
16:06:22 <davb> mattress?
16:06:26 <Psychephylax> no
16:06:27 <beattiek> davb: I mentioned that i read the log
16:06:34 <davb> ok :)
16:06:46 <beattiek> davb: if you look back you can see my www-data password :P
16:06:46 <davb> but really we are very flexible here. 
16:07:22 <beattiek> miguel: I am near Vancouver, and i just got OACS working
16:07:29 <beattiek> miguel: care to hear my plans?
16:07:41 <beattiek> <snicker
16:07:44 <miguel> yes if you want to
16:07:51 <markd2> hey beattiek
16:07:55 <markd2> did you get your xml thing figured out?
16:08:07 <beattiek> no, you just used the binary
16:08:22 <miguel> this summer i got to know a girl from vancouver, she told me that there was lots of jobs in IT
16:08:30 <beattiek> hmm
16:09:24 <beattiek> there are a reasonable amount considering the current atmosphere
16:09:25 <miguel> are you working or studying?
16:09:30 <beattiek> working
16:09:37 <miguel> the international atmosphere?
16:09:42 <beattiek> yes
16:09:47 <miguel> working on what?
16:09:59 <beattiek> web development
16:10:14 <beattiek> on a contract basis
16:10:21 <miguel> freelance?
16:10:23 <miguel> more or less
16:10:24 <beattiek> yup
16:10:32 <davb> beattiek: getting paid to work with OpenACS? 
16:10:49 <beattiek> davb: thats not the plan. If i chose to i could
16:10:51 <Psychephylax> I want to be a millionare when I retire
16:11:00 <beattiek> davb: I don't plan on retiring
16:11:05 <beattiek> opps
16:11:09 <davb> OK
16:11:12 <Psychephylax> lol
16:11:12 <beattiek> that was Psychephylax
16:11:56 <beattiek> davb: basicly i can use whatever tools i want to make the page, and then convince the business men it is the best
16:12:48 <beattiek> I mostly work for misguided business men who bought companys after the .com burst, for next to nothing
16:13:17 <beattiek> anyhow, i was gonna get to my .plan
16:13:31 <davb> "Try to take over the world?"
16:13:35 <beattiek> no
16:13:38 <miguel> which other tools are you using beattiek? so you have just started with OACS?
16:13:41 <beattiek> close
16:13:43 <beattiek> :P
16:14:00 <beattiek> we made our own tools, with perl
16:14:01 <miguel> hey! another guy like me
16:14:05 <beattiek> also, i use zope
16:14:16 <miguel> ok me up now i just have used php
16:14:25 <davb> Wow, you have tried everything.
16:14:33 <beattiek> me?
16:15:35 <beattiek> (assumes yes) yeah, I like to experament with things, My long term plans are in OACS tho. I have been 'on to you' for a while now.
16:15:48 <davb> heh
16:16:21 <beattiek> well originaly i didn't have faith in PGSQL, but now i do.
16:16:50 <davb> you can also use Oracle :)
16:17:06 <beattiek> yes, but i would use ACS if i could afford oracle
16:17:45 <beattiek> I plan on making large sites that may one day have a goal of making money
16:17:46 <markd2> have any kids?  you could sell them.
16:17:54 <beattiek> already have mark.
16:17:56 <davb> there is no ACS at least not for Tcl anymore.
16:18:04 <beattiek> before the child index rose too.
16:18:07 <markd2> LOL
16:18:23 <markd2> markd2 has changed the topic to: ACS is Dead!  Long Live OACS!
16:18:25 <beattiek> yeah, the new java acs is cool tho
16:18:39 <davb> Have you actually used it?
16:18:45 <beattiek> although the licence scares me.
16:18:51 <beattiek> nope
16:19:04 <beattiek> haha
16:19:45 <beattiek> anyone want to hear my .plan?
16:20:29 <davb> sure give us the .plan
16:20:33 <beattiek> :)
16:20:34 <davb> ack
16:20:47 <beattiek> first i have an experament that i want to try
16:21:20 <beattiek> I site that starts as an information gathering tool, and forms that info into a web page.
16:21:46 <beattiek> It will have a page for every city, or distict
16:22:08 <beattiek> and it will provide them a place to have an online community
16:22:39 <davb> http://www.digitalcity.com
16:22:39 <chump> A: http://www.digitalcity.com from davb
16:22:42 <beattiek> feel free to critisize/ask questions.
16:22:48 <beattiek> i know digitalcity
16:22:53 <davb> :)
16:23:04 <davb> How will yours be different from all the others out there?
16:23:25 <beattiek> good question
16:23:43 <beattiek> idealy, it will support a community better than others.
16:23:54 <davb> So better tools?
16:24:03 <davb> How will you make money? 
16:24:10 <markd2> volume
16:24:15 <beattiek> well i'm not too concerned with making money
16:24:30 <beattiek> thats why i chose OACS
16:24:34 <davb> Ok, how will you pay for all the servers :)
16:24:46 <beattiek> well, I wont lose money, for sure
16:24:52 <davb> ok.
16:25:15 <davb> beattiek: Will you have sites for small communities?
16:25:18 <beattiek> i mean, if a server serves 100 hits/second, i could put banner ads up and pay for it
16:25:26 <beattiek> <--- hates banner ads
16:25:34 <beattiek> davb: yes
16:25:39 <davb> Have a backup plan.
16:25:52 <beattiek> davb: what do you mean?
16:25:54 <davb> Or a migration to new advertising model plan at least.
16:26:09 <davb> banner ads are 99 44/100% useless.
16:26:12 <beattiek> yeah
16:26:16 <beattiek> i was making a point
16:26:21 <markd2> but that 0.000056% man...
16:26:22 <davb> right. 
16:26:25 <beattiek> _even_ banner ads could pay for it
16:26:33 <beattiek> is what i was saying,.
16:26:34 <davb> Actually photo.net has a good plan. 
16:26:55 <davb> They have specific sponsers geared towards the communities.
16:26:55 <beattiek> i have a large vault of common sense.
16:27:07 <markd2> can you hand some of that out?
16:27:10 <markd2> I know some folks who really need it
16:27:15 <beattiek> i know that,
16:27:22 <davb> So maybe you could have targeted small ads and sponsered links for each community.
16:27:34 <davb> actually ads that people might use :)
16:27:35 <markd2> like the google model?
16:27:38 <davb> kinda.
16:27:49 <beattiek> yeah davb
16:27:58 <davb> but more geographically focused.
16:28:02 <beattiek> of course
16:28:26 <beattiek> basicly we let business pay us to have thier store emphasized
16:28:33 <davb> davb has changed the topic to: http://openacs.org
16:28:37 <markd2> * markd2 goes and buries his head into a java book
16:28:49 <beattiek> I don't worry about advertising yet.
16:28:55 <davb> sure.
16:29:00 <davb> good luck :)
16:29:03 <beattiek> i know i can make the money
16:29:06 <beattiek> thanks dave...
16:29:08 <beattiek> i guess.
16:29:18 <davb> no really :)
16:29:31 <beattiek> well what do you think?
16:29:34 <davb> That is what OpenACS is all about. community building software.
16:29:38 <miguel> my group wants to do something similar but they want people go under suscription after a while maybe $10 or $20
16:29:55 <beattiek> i wouldn't suggest that.
16:30:19 <beattiek> the interent is free. you would be better of charging for porn :P
16:30:36 <miguel> me neither, over here we have a very strong culture of "everything for free" (even when it is not for free if you know what i mean)
16:31:10 <beattiek> i mean, is your goal to make money? cause i guess if you got up to 2 000 000 hits/day, you could make alot of money before your site died off :)
16:31:23 <beattiek> yeah :)
16:31:42 <miguel> hehehe yes sure
16:31:48 <beattiek> have you read cluetrain?
16:32:06 <miguel> i guess this people dont know really what they have in their hands
16:32:54 <beattiek> davb: what do you realy think about the idea?
16:33:04 <beattiek> overused?
16:33:11 <davb> beattiek: it will be hard to make it work.
16:33:16 <beattiek> i knw
16:33:29 <davb> there are a lot of community communities on the interenet.
16:33:39 <beattiek> <nod>
16:33:48 <davb> You need a niche, something that is very different or special.
16:34:01 <beattiek> I think if I build a good enough model, i might be able to merge with one of the bigger ones.
16:34:06 <davb> Say I have an MSN community or Yahoo group etc... why should I switch?
16:34:18 <davb> You really need to beef up the email integration.
16:34:24 <beattiek> that is the big questions.
16:34:31 <davb> Everything should be accesible by email. 
16:34:36 <beattiek> okay.
16:34:38 <beattiek> i agree
16:34:44 <davb> much easier to keep people involved via email.
16:34:57 <beattiek> <nod>
16:35:03 <davb> also they rarely unsubscribe. you can pipe ads in them like Yahoo also :)
16:35:19 <beattiek> yeah
16:35:32 <davb> but not big icky HTML ads, just handy links. If you target the ads in the emails by community that would be really powerful.
16:35:34 <beattiek> I think i'm going ot have the option to turn ads off :)
16:35:44 <davb> that is the $$ option.
16:35:48 <beattiek> I doubt many people would
16:36:04 <beattiek> and i think people would _realy_ appriciate it
16:36:21 <beattiek> even if they could just turn the non-applicable ads off.
16:36:27 <davb> right. good idea.
16:36:36 <beattiek> i hate ads but i don't mind seeing thinkgeek ads on /.
16:36:37 <davb> THat is why I said to tightly focus the ads.
16:36:45 <beattiek> yeah :)
16:36:47 <davb> right. ads for stuff you want are useful.
16:36:55 <miguel> for that you need lot of information of people interests
16:37:09 <davb> that is why he has a database :)
16:37:14 <beattiek> yup :)
16:37:38 <beattiek> and a forum where people can talk, with somewhat directed topic
16:37:51 <Psychephylax> hmmm
16:37:58 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax waves a cookie in the air
16:38:05 <davb> you might want to think about the moderated forums kinda like about.com
16:38:14 <davb> Psychephylax: he's busy I think :)
16:38:16 <beattiek> ?
16:38:32 <davb> each section on About.com has an "expert" that ads content, etc...
16:38:37 <beattiek> yeah
16:38:43 <beattiek> that is the plan
16:38:59 <davb> so you need to have a volunteer helper for each community.
16:39:03 <beattiek> yup
16:39:11 <beattiek> which i think i can find
16:39:16 <beattiek> with the right tools
16:39:34 <beattiek> i don't suppose you have read cluetrain dave?
16:39:42 <davb> yep.
16:39:45 <beattiek> realy?
16:39:47 <Psychephylax> I need to build a complex query
16:39:48 <Psychephylax> hehe
16:39:49 <beattiek> what do you think?
16:39:51 <davb> yes. 
16:39:51 <Psychephylax> please stand by...
16:40:02 <davb> its not bad. its alot more complicated than that though...
16:40:08 <beattiek> what is?
16:40:10 <davb> I read ALOT of weblogs etc... on the internet.
16:40:23 <davb> beattiek: yes, but I am not the guy to explain it :)
16:40:39 <beattiek> hmmm
16:40:45 <beattiek> anyhow
16:41:03 <beattiek> the main point in that book is : Markets are conversations.
16:41:03 <davb> but the concept works. communication is the key of the internet.
16:41:12 <beattiek> yeah
16:41:16 <davb> communication between people :)
16:41:19 <davb> not just computers.
16:41:23 <beattiek> yeah
16:41:24 <beattiek> of course
16:41:33 <beattiek> well i realy bought that book
16:41:35 <davb> Psychephylax: go ahead we won't flame you for being on topic.
16:41:46 <davb> Did you read Release 2.0?
16:41:56 <davb> same kinda thing.
16:42:00 <beattiek> of cluetrain? nope
16:42:13 <davb> no the book is called Release 2.0, by Esther Dyson. :)
16:42:32 <Psychephylax> is cc_users a view in OACS?
16:42:33 <miguel> it is for free?
16:42:37 <beattiek> oh, hehe :)
16:42:46 <davb> nope. sorry its not free.
16:42:51 <beattiek> what is it about dave?
16:42:53 <davb> Psychephylax: I am not sure.
16:43:06 <davb> beattiek: the interent, conversations etc... 
16:43:14 <davb> I didn;t finish it.
16:43:17 <beattiek> interesting, i will buy it.
16:43:18 <Psychephylax> Wha
16:43:20 <Psychephylax> whoa
16:43:28 <beattiek> I read a ton of those books as well :)
16:43:32 <davb> beattiek: try the local library :) that is how I save alot of $$$
16:43:44 <Psychephylax> Dave
16:43:53 <Psychephylax> Are you familiar with the way they store users at all?
16:43:53 <davb> Psychephylax: let me look...
16:44:20 <davb> Psychephylax: they like to keep them in a little box with a vial of cyanide...oops thats cats.. hang on.
16:45:04 <davb> Psychephylax: its a view
16:45:18 <Psychephylax> ok
16:45:21 <Psychephylax> that's what I thought
16:45:25 <Psychephylax> here's a second question
16:45:28 <davb> users are stored in a bunch of tables, party, users, another one i think...
16:45:33 <Psychephylax> they do some to lower case conversions
16:45:42 <davb> ok...
16:45:45 <beattiek> i'm gonna phone some people. brb.
16:45:45 <Psychephylax> Is this for comparison only or do they store them in the db like that?
16:45:53 <davb> probably for comparison. 
16:45:56 <Psychephylax> ok
16:46:01 <davb> I can't imagine that is stored that way.
16:46:50 <davb> Psychephylax; the oracle datamodel is different... I think
16:46:56 <Psychephylax> ok
16:47:08 <miguel> davb: doesnt work
16:47:09 <miguel> i got this log message:
16:47:10 <miguel> [20/Dec/2001:17:48:54][571.2051][-sched-] Error: invalid command name "/web/cazurra/tcl/miniproject.tcl"
16:47:10 <miguel> invalid command name "/web/cazurra/tcl/miniproject.tcl"
16:47:10 <miguel>     while executing
16:47:11 <miguel> "/web/cazurra/tcl/miniproject.tcl"
16:47:25 <miguel> it just worked when i rebooted the system
16:47:30 <davb> weird.
16:47:33 <Psychephylax> see
16:47:44 <Psychephylax> I have a 2nd table that stores the user hierarchy
16:48:12 <davb> aha. you want a trigger when the user tables are updated to update yours?
16:48:27 <Psychephylax> no
16:48:38 <davb> parties, persons, users are the tables.
16:48:55 <Psychephylax> I want to prevent the user search engine from showing up people who don't work for the person who ran the query
16:49:00 <Psychephylax> s/query/search
16:49:05 <davb> rewrite it :)
16:49:17 <davb> with the appropriate connect by.
16:49:42 <davb> something like this
16:49:44 <miguel> davb: ive got the following permission
16:49:48 <miguel> s
16:49:51 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]# ls -l m*
16:49:52 <miguel> -rwxrwxr-x    1 nsadmin  web           629 dic 20 17:09 miniproject.tcl
16:49:52 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]# ls -l sche*
16:49:52 <miguel> -rwxrwxr-x    1 nsadmin  web            53 dic 20 17:05 schedule_miniproject.tcl
16:49:52 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]#
16:50:08 <miguel> schedule_miniproject launchs miniproject.tcl
16:50:14 <davb> connect by boss_id starting with boss_id = "the user running the query"
16:50:33 <davb> miguel: looks fine.
16:50:35 <miguel> with ns_schedule_proc 20 /web/cazurra/tcl/miniproject.tcl
16:50:51 <davb> that won't work will it?
16:51:06 <davb> Try wrapping the call to /web/... in a proc.
16:51:35 <davb> the last argument to ns_schedule_proc has to be a proc name.
16:51:47 <davb> you need to write a proc that calls that file.
16:51:57 <davb> proc miniproject {} {
16:52:15 <davb> source "/web/cazurra/tcl/miniproject.tcl"
16:52:16 <davb> }
16:52:27 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("Bork")
16:52:30 <miguel> sourcE?
16:52:34 <davb> is that in the aolserver tcl library?
16:52:42 <davb> source evaluates a tcl file.
16:53:00 <davb> ns_schedule_proc 20 miniproject
16:53:02 <miguel> so i should put that code in the schedule-miniproject
16:53:10 <davb> yes. 
16:53:21 <miguel> ok
16:53:24 <miguel> ill try that
16:53:37 <davb> Psychephylax: did that help at all?
16:55:08 <Psychephylax> not sure yet
16:55:38 <Psychephylax> First, I need to find out the full query
16:56:47 <davb> right, I suggest stealing the code from the original page and modifying it :)
16:58:21 <beattiek> yay, i'm back, rejoice.
16:58:51 <beattiek> davb: is there a cost assosiated with installing packages?
16:59:02 <beattiek> ie: does it become less stabe/slower?
16:59:54 <miguel> davb: i got this log message:
16:59:55 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]# ls -l m*
16:59:56 <miguel> -rwxrwxr-x    1 nsadmin  web           629 dic 20 17:09 miniproject.tcl
16:59:56 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]# ls -l sche*
16:59:56 <miguel> -rwxrwxr-x    1 nsadmin  web            53 dic 20 17:05 schedule_miniproject.tcl
16:59:56 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]#
17:00:07 <miguel> sorry
17:00:07 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]# ls -l m*
17:00:07 <miguel> -rwxrwxr-x    1 nsadmin  web           629 dic 20 17:09 miniproject.tcl
17:00:07 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]# ls -l sche*
17:00:07 <miguel> -rwxrwxr-x    1 nsadmin  web            53 dic 20 17:05 schedule_miniproject.tcl
17:00:08 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]#
17:00:50 <djg> djg has left #openacs
17:01:12 <davb> beattiek: not if you have enough ram
17:01:24 <davb> beattiek: it resources all the tcl library files for every thread,
17:01:48 <davb> so thread startup is costly. AOL has minthreads=maxthreads set in the server config file.
17:02:01 <davb> that way threads are never killed so the cost is only at server startup.
17:02:05 <miguel> davb:  warning: sched: excessive time taken by proc 50
17:02:08 <Psychephylax> What's an insured money market account?
17:02:32 <beattiek> i mean, If i install but not use packages, is there still a cost. (if i'm planing a large project should i install all of the packages)
17:02:35 <davb> Psychephylax: I am not sure. check with your financial advisor :)
17:02:48 <Psychephylax> i don't have one
17:03:04 <davb> beattiek: no other cost except RAM. But even with all the packages I don't think its that great.
17:03:12 <beattiek> okay, thanks.
17:03:14 <davb> Psychephylax: google is your friend :)
17:03:28 <Psychephylax> heh
17:03:30 <davb> I should setup that google bot one of these days.
17:03:41 <beattiek> hehe
17:03:44 <davb> beattiek: also though, you can always install more later. 
17:03:46 <miguel> now seems to work
17:03:50 <beattiek> of course
17:03:51 <davb> interesting.
17:03:56 <davb> miguel: great.
17:03:57 <beattiek> but i like doing things in phases
17:03:59 <miguel> it was the proc thing
17:04:24 <miguel> by the way, the system says that it takes 15 seconds to perform an insert in a table
17:04:40 <beattiek> ie, after my packages are installed, i don't want have to deal with them for a long time
17:04:44 <davb> it takes 15 secs to source that file and run it.
17:04:50 <miguel> ok
17:04:59 <miguel> so it is normal
17:05:02 <davb> But still seems kinda long...
17:05:03 <davb> :)
17:05:26 <miguel> i use a db_transaction
17:05:44 <beattiek> Dave, do you know anyone else who may be interested in making web pages like I speak of?
17:05:47 <davb> miguel: I think I am at the limit of my knowledge on this :)
17:05:51 <miguel> an lock the table
17:05:55 <miguel> ok
17:05:56 <miguel> ;)
17:05:58 <miguel> thanks
17:06:09 <davb> beattiek: me :) I am working with someone with a similar project but I can't talk about it :)
17:06:17 <davb> miguel: you really need a table lock?
17:06:17 <beattiek> realy :(
17:06:49 <beattiek> davb: that is depressing.
17:07:14 <miguel> not sure davb but it is an insert
17:07:32 <miguel> well actually it is the only proc that performs inserts so i guess i dont need to lock the table
17:07:52 <davb> miguel: I am not sure when you need a lock..
17:08:07 <miguel> ok i will try without it
17:08:09 <davb> I know alot of little stuff, and then.....nothing :)
17:08:16 <miguel> hehehe
17:08:37 <davb> miguel: OpenACS does inserts all the time and I don;t think there are any explicit locks in there... but I am not an expert.
17:09:36 <beattiek> davb: I keep forking strings in my mind, but they keep hitting the 'he can't talk about it' stage.
17:10:02 <davb> beattiek: heh
17:10:42 <beattiek> so you signed/made a non-disclosure agreement?
17:10:45 <davb> yep.
17:11:03 <davb> of course, I thought there would be some sort of web site by now.
17:11:14 <beattiek> that is so depressing.
17:11:40 <beattiek> even if you did do somthing with me, he might try to sue us for breac of the agreement now :(
17:12:20 <beattiek> hmmmph
17:12:38 <beattiek> well, have you read the bible? i mean, think and grow rich?
17:12:46 <davb> beattiek: well anyway, I will have to make a decision on whats happening with this project after the holidays.
17:13:34 <davb> beattiek: ?
17:13:37 <beattiek> I see, all i can say is, i'm going to succed, despite my poor spelling. :)
17:13:58 <beattiek> that ? is for 'think and grow rich'?
17:14:01 <davb> beattiek: that is what computers are for!!
17:14:06 <beattiek> exactly
17:14:08 <davb> beattiek: yes is that a book title?
17:14:11 <beattiek> yup
17:14:21 <beattiek> cheesy title, i know
17:14:38 <davb> then I have not seen it. although it sounds like a great plan. I have been thinking for a while now and haven't seen the $$$ yet :)
17:15:19 <beattiek> yeah, well, I will talk to you after the holidays if i have the $$$
17:15:37 <beattiek> although I never planed on needing any in the initial stages.
17:15:46 <beattiek> Is he planing to do it full time?
17:15:48 <davb> good plan.
17:16:28 <beattiek> hmm
17:17:00 <beattiek> well i as much as i love to speculate, i'll wait and see what happens.
17:18:19 <beattiek> hmm.
17:18:21 <Psychephylax> nothing like having an in-house DBA help you with a complex query that took him a total of 2 minutes
17:18:32 <davb> Psychephylax: cool!
17:18:37 <davb> was I close?
17:18:44 <beattiek> Is the partner in this plan part of the NDA? (i'm assuming not :P)
17:18:51 <beattiek> some people are crazy tho,
17:19:16 <beattiek> who is the lucky fellow then?
17:20:04 <miguel> thats really worse
17:20:06 <beattiek> i mean, what does this guy do?
17:20:42 <beattiek> hmm.
17:20:47 <miguel> dont worry dave, i have the same thing, i am learning OACS and i dont know if the company will be created neither i will get any benefit
17:20:50 <Psychephylax> no :)
17:20:55 <Psychephylax> we didn't need a connect by
17:20:59 <Psychephylax> just a subquery
17:21:00 <davb> Psychephylax: darn.
17:21:03 <beattiek> did you _sign_ a NDA, and if so, did you sign a contract?
17:21:14 <davb> beattiek: NDA, no contract.
17:21:45 <davb> probably not my best move ever :)
17:21:54 <beattiek> probalby
17:21:59 <Psychephylax> I need more caffeine
17:22:05 <beattiek> hmm.
17:22:23 <davb> I will have to go back and reread it to see exactly what it restricts.
17:22:28 <beattiek> well, will you own part of this company?
17:22:57 <davb> there isn't one. see this is the other reason I never did much work. He has not gotten around to working out that part.
17:23:06 <davb> there is not company just yet.
17:23:13 <beattiek> Is Jhon a nice guy?
17:23:24 <davb> seems to be.
17:23:32 <beattiek> thats good.
17:24:01 <miguel> davb: i deleted the lock part and i just saved 5 seconds ;)
17:24:18 <davb> Basically as long as I don't steal his idea I think I am OK. the idea is very specific.
17:24:22 <davb> miguel: cool.
17:24:41 <davb> miguel: how many rows are you inserting each time?
17:24:41 <beattiek> this may seem like subterfuge, but a guy would works on business development but doesn't have money sounds like a shallow prospect :P
17:25:00 <beattiek> thats cool davb
17:25:10 <miguel> just one
17:25:15 <davb> beattiek: not at all :) I know. but I don't have anyone else paying me to do web work right now :) so I haven;t missed out on much.
17:25:31 <miguel> i call the function 'now'::time to stuff it into my table
17:26:17 <davb> miguel: still seems a little slow. Can't you just put the code in miniproject.tcl inside the AOLserver private library and call it frm the scheduled proc instead of relaoding every 20 secs? Thats alot of disk access.
17:26:20 <beattiek> I'm sure i will think of it myself however, at which point, you would be accused of telling me, and we could not use the idea, but you couldn't tell me not to because you would be giving it away then, or somthing, i hate contracts :P
17:26:34 <davb> beattiek: heh :)
17:26:48 <beattiek> I have to meet someone a few towns away, see you in a few hours, maybe.
17:26:59 <davb> ok. bye
17:27:45 <miguel> bye beattiek
17:29:09 <miguel> davb: dont understand your point. i have in my oacs server in the tcl private library my miniproject.tcl
17:30:35 <davb> miguel: you can just put miniproject.tcl with the openacs tcl files and it will be loaded into the interpreter on server startup. then just call the procs inside there from ns_schedule_proc. then you don't have to source the file every 20 secs.
17:30:52 <davb> it will already be in memory.
17:30:52 <beattiek> bye miguel, davb
17:31:04 <miguel> bye beattiek
17:31:20 <Psychephylax> Dave
17:31:23 <davb> Psychephylax
17:31:38 <Psychephylax> What's the function to return the user_id of the person looking a the page?
17:31:44 <miguel> the tcl script containing the ns_schedule proc should be in the OACS private tcl library?
17:31:57 <davb> miguel that too.
17:32:04 <davb> Psychephylax ad_get_user_id ?
17:32:08 <Psychephylax> that's it
17:32:38 <Psychephylax> set u_id [ad_get_user_id] 
17:32:41 <Psychephylax> like that right?
17:33:00 <miguel> but in the aolserver tcl private library should i write it as a proc right?
17:33:02 <Psychephylax> Sorry...I forgot everything i knew about TCL and OACS in the last 2 weeks
17:33:46 <davb> Psychephylax yeah
17:34:16 <davb> miguel you need a proc to _do_ whatver you want done.
17:34:22 <miguel> ok
17:34:36 <davb> then just call ns_schedule_proc in one of the files to schedule that proc to be called every 20 seconds.
17:35:06 <miguel> and because it is already in memory i dont need to say where it is?
17:35:36 <davb> it is just like all the OpenACS procs.
17:35:38 <davb> yes.
17:35:42 <miguel> ok
17:35:47 <miguel> going to try
17:45:59 <miguel> dave
17:46:02 <miguel> i got this message
17:46:11 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]# ls -l m*
17:46:11 <miguel> -rwxrwxr-x    1 nsadmin  web           629 dic 20 17:09 miniproject.tcl
17:46:11 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]# ls -l sche*
17:46:11 <miguel> -rwxrwxr-x    1 nsadmin  web            53 dic 20 17:05 schedule_miniproject.tcl
17:46:11 <miguel> [root@cazurra1 tcl]#
17:46:31 <miguel> i got this mesage
17:46:51 <miguel> sched: excessive time taken by proc 50 (7 seconds)
17:47:52 <miguel> ive got the ns_schedule call in the oacs tcl private lib
17:47:58 <davb> ok.
17:48:45 <davb> read this :) http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/tcl-api.adp#ns_schedule_proc
17:48:56 <davb> I am not sure why you get that message.
17:48:57 <miguel> ok
17:49:24 <davb> try using the -thread switch.
17:49:25 <miguel> me neither
17:49:29 <miguel> ;)
17:49:36 <davb> that will let it run without stopping the serverf.
17:50:02 <davb> I must lunch. bbiab.
17:50:11 <miguel> bye
17:50:24 <miguel> ok
17:54:41 <Psychephylax> Dave
17:55:44 <miguel> tried with threads and now i got 6 seconds
17:58:37 <Psychephylax> bah
17:59:56 <miguel> now the system doesnt complain
18:25:24 <davb> miguel: good!
18:27:01 <miguel> just wondering what the h*** means psychephylax?
18:41:41 <Psychephylax> hmm?
18:45:42 <miguel> does it have any meaning?
18:45:44 <miguel> ;)
18:48:28 <Psychephylax> yes
18:51:06 <miguel> may i know which one?
18:53:04 <Psychephylax> Ask dave :)
18:54:38 <davb> back...
18:54:48 <davb> Soul-keeper?
18:54:52 <davb> if I recall correctly.
18:55:04 <davb> or is it cookie-keeper?
18:57:32 <Psychephylax> :-)
18:57:39 <Psychephylax> Mark is the cookie keeper
18:57:50 <Psychephylax> Although he's more like the cookie monster :-D
19:02:44 <miguel> is there any way to have floats ? i want to divide 46 / 50
19:02:58 <davb> 46.0 / 50.0
19:03:25 <davb> you need the .0 to tell Tcl its a float.
19:03:55 <davb> Tcl math is really, really bad. Someone needs to write or find a decent tcl math library.
19:04:22 <davb> Its in Tcl for Web Nerds, a wonderful docuement that catalogs most of the wackiness of Tcl :)
19:05:42 <miguel> so i have to append the .0 ?
19:06:06 <davb> yes. If they are both variables you need to check for it, and tack it on if its not there.
19:06:21 <davb> There might be a proc for that in OpenACS somewhere. If not write one :)
19:07:06 <miguel> ok
19:07:08 <miguel> thanks
19:07:11 <miguel> it works
19:07:35 <davb> cool.
19:08:46 <davb> ooooh bad Win98/ME/XP bug
19:08:49 <miguel> how can i cut some decimals?
19:09:03 <davb> not sure...
19:09:05 <davb> Psychephylax?
19:09:23 <davb> Why can't MS not program  buffer overflow conditions. this is just silly.
19:10:15 <davb> a patch:
19:10:16 <davb> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms01-059.asp
19:10:16 <chump> B: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms01-059.asp from davb
19:10:27 <davb> B:|Latest MS patch for 98/ME/XP
19:10:27 <chump> titled item B
19:14:06 <Psychephylax> what
19:14:36 <davb> miguel: wants to know how to restrict a floating point number to a certain number of digits after the decimal in Tcl.
19:14:47 <davb> Psychephylax: miguel needs to know that :)
19:14:51 <Psychephylax> ok
19:14:53 <miguel> thanks dave
19:14:55 <Psychephylax> use format
19:14:59 <miguel> ok
19:15:01 <davb> thanks Psychephylax
19:15:30 <Psychephylax> [format "%.2f" [expr $online_pct / 100.0]]
19:15:33 <Psychephylax> like that
19:16:02 <miguel> many thanks
19:17:55 <Psychephylax> Dave
19:19:41 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax thwaps© dave
19:22:20 <Psychephylax> wow, solaris interprets symlinks funny
19:27:23 <talli> talli has left #openacs
19:28:53 <miguel> ok guys many thanks for your help
19:29:17 <Psychephylax> heh
19:29:20 <Psychephylax> no prob
19:29:22 <Psychephylax> get dave for me
19:29:28 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax kicks dave in the groin
19:33:09 <miguel> i gotta go home
19:33:10 <miguel> bye
19:34:36 <davb> aigh
19:34:55 <Psychephylax> help
19:34:56 <Psychephylax> :)
19:35:01 <davb> OK :)
19:35:10 <Psychephylax> I have this scenario
19:35:17 <Psychephylax> Updating user information
19:35:28 <Psychephylax> by default: ACS ADmin + user can modify it
19:35:44 <Psychephylax> I need to alter the permissions checking to allow a supervisor to edit the info as well
19:35:56 <davb> but only on his employees?
19:35:59 <Psychephylax> right
19:36:03 <miguel> miguel has quit ()
19:36:10 <davb> I think I can't help you with that :)
19:36:17 <Psychephylax> sure you can
19:36:25 <Psychephylax> I fixed the 'only his employees' part
19:36:27 <davb> Find out which permission it is.
19:36:34 <Psychephylax> "write"
19:36:50 <Psychephylax> And you can't find emps who don't work for you in the edit search form
19:36:54 <Psychephylax> nor can you remove them
19:36:57 <davb> well yeah, but is it like acs_user_write or something.
19:37:11 <Psychephylax> ad_require_permission $user_id "write"
19:37:24 <Psychephylax> I know what it does too
19:37:31 <davb> cool, I don't :)
19:37:32 <Psychephylax> requires the write permission on the user_id object
19:37:38 <davb> heh
19:37:52 <davb> you need to give that permission to the supervisor.
19:37:56 <Psychephylax> Now, I would need to grant the write permission to the supervisor
19:37:58 <davb> I think you need a group thing. 
19:38:04 <Psychephylax> well
19:38:19 <davb> wheere each supervisor is an admin and the employees are in the group so the supervisor can only edit his group.
19:39:11 <Psychephylax> wait
19:39:33 <davb> brb
19:39:45 <Psychephylax> can't I just grant the permission when I add the person?
19:44:07 <davb> yeah, but that is icky. what if the supervisor changes?
19:44:16 <davb> it will work though. 
19:44:40 <Psychephylax> hmmmm
19:45:25 <Psychephylax> That supervisor's boss can change him
19:45:34 <Psychephylax> id stays the same :)
19:46:02 <Psychephylax> How do I grant permissions?
19:46:26 <davb> acs_permission.grant_permission(some args)
19:46:32 <davb> PL/SQL function
19:46:37 <Psychephylax> k
19:48:47 <Psychephylax> acs_permission.grant_permission( $user_id, $creator_id, 'write');
19:50:16 <Psychephylax> invalid command name...
19:50:41 <davb> hmmm. argh. its something like that...
19:50:54 <Psychephylax> It is
19:50:59 <Psychephylax> I looked at Vinod's code
19:52:14 <davb> ok.
19:52:42 <Psychephylax> it's in the docs too
19:52:42 <davb> its a PL/SQL functions... did you do db_exec_plsql "acs_permission..."
19:53:26 <Psychephylax> oh
19:56:05 <Psychephylax> bah
19:58:55 <Psychephylax> Constraint violations
20:03:22 <davb> which one?
20:08:51 <Psychephylax> Uniqueness
20:11:08 <davb> which column and table?
20:12:06 <Psychephylax> one of mine
20:12:17 <Psychephylax> ora8.c:3930:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-00001: unique constraint (MYOPENACS.SYS_C009219) violated
20:12:26 <Psychephylax> SQL: insert into corporate_employees (EMPLOYEE_ID, SUPERVISOR_ID) values (:user_id,:creator_id)
20:12:26 <chump> Label SQL not found.
20:12:27 <Psychephylax>          while executing
20:15:29 <davb> so you tried inserting an employee_id that already existed?
20:16:12 <Psychephylax> no
20:16:22 <Psychephylax> I apparently tried to insert a boss who already existed?
20:16:43 <davb> which column is the constraint on?
20:17:15 <davb> should be employeed_id, there will be more than 1 of each supervisor_id in that table.
20:18:50 <Psychephylax> create table corporate_employees ( 
20:18:50 <Psychephylax>         employee_id     integer primary key, 
20:18:50 <Psychephylax>         supervisor_id   references corporate_employees 
20:18:50 <Psychephylax> ); 
20:20:07 <davb> ok. so you tried to insert a user_id into employee_id that already existed. That is a no-no.
20:21:36 <Psychephylax> how did I do that!
20:22:01 <Psychephylax> db_dml employee_store "insert into corporate_employees (EMPLOYEE_ID, SUPERVISOR_ID) values\
20:22:02 <Psychephylax>  (:user_id,:creator_id)" 
20:22:05 <Psychephylax> is my insertion
20:26:56 <davb> the variable :user_id contains a value that is alreadu in that table :)
20:26:59 <davb> check it.
20:28:12 <Psychephylax> ok
20:28:21 <Psychephylax> I don't understand it
20:29:12 <Psychephylax> user_id is the new user id
20:29:20 <Psychephylax> creator_id is the person who made user_id
20:29:53 <davb> Psychephylax: what new user id?
20:30:20 <davb> Check the value of user_id when you get that error. It should be in the log. Make sure that its not already in that table.
20:33:13 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax checks
20:35:57 <Psychephylax> [20/Dec/2001:15:31:37][4515.8][-nssock-] Notice: nssock: accepting connections
20:35:57 <Psychephylax> [20/Dec/2001:15:31:37][4515.8][-nssock-] Notice: exiting
20:36:01 <Psychephylax> why does it exit?
20:36:52 <Psychephylax> aha!
20:54:53 <Psychephylax> bbl
20:55:04 <davb> k
21:22:01 <Psychephylax> heh
21:22:06 <Psychephylax> I should create a new screen name
21:26:52 <davb> again? :)
21:28:43 <Psychephylax> For AIM
21:28:52 <davb> ah
21:28:55 <Psychephylax> Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of Workiephylax
21:29:04 <davb> not back.
21:29:20 <Psychephylax> and Homiephylax to match
21:31:19 <Psychephylax> since I already have MobilePhylax
21:31:27 <Psychephylax> Hahahaahahaha
21:31:36 <davb> how many do you need?
21:31:49 <Psychephylax> Workiephylax - work (I leave it on at night)
21:32:04 <Psychephylax> Mobilephylax - cell phone (I leave it on as well)
21:32:14 <Psychephylax> I should change it to Phoniephylax (hehehehehe)
21:32:37 <Psychephylax> and Psychephylax is my regular one
21:32:43 <Psychephylax> but Workie doesn't exist
21:32:45 <Psychephylax> I use Range27
21:33:16 <davb> you cell phone has AIM. So I can send an instant message to your phone?
21:33:29 <davb> cool. tried using it with SmarterChild?
21:33:47 <Psychephylax> Yeah, my cell phone has AIM
21:33:53 <Psychephylax> What's smarterchild?
21:34:23 <davb> Its cool. IM it and say Hi.
21:34:41 <Psychephylax> don't hehe
21:34:41 <davb> I has all kinds of neat info and is getting new features all the time.
21:41:58 <davb> time to finish christmas shopping!
21:46:14 <jerryasher> jerryasher (~jerry-irc@adsl-209-233-238-162.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
21:47:09 <davb> Hi jerryasher!
21:47:15 <davb> what brings you here?
21:47:37 <jerryasher> I admit it's not just for chatting.  I need a recommendation on where to buy laptops.
21:48:09 <jerryasher> Almost everyone wants 15% restocking fees.
21:48:30 <jerryasher> Does anyone have good service, good price, and not want a 15% restocking fee?
21:49:09 <jerryasher> And what other newsgroup or resource should I go to get a vendor recommendation?
21:50:23 <davb> PC Connection?
21:50:34 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@r-41.11.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
21:50:34 <davb> I don't know about restocking, but otherwise they are good.
21:51:34 <jerryasher> Yes, I bought my last laptop, an IBM, from them, but that was about four years ago.
21:52:30 <davb> Are you planning on sending it back?
21:52:32 <davb> :)
21:52:48 <davb> Or just want to keep your options open if it does not meet your needs?
21:52:59 <jerryasher> No and yes.  It's a $2500 machine, and I am very picky about keyboards.
21:53:28 <jerryasher> And since so few companies seem to have a good selection of laptops in stock to play
21:53:37 <jerryasher> on, it is really a blind purchase.
21:54:03 <jerryasher> Also, the one I want is the Toshiba Portege 4000, and there are conflicting reports
21:54:08 <Psychephylax> Holy shit it's Jerry
21:54:10 <jerryasher> as to how linux compatible it is.
21:54:10 <Psychephylax> And Mark!
21:54:35 <jerryasher> It's obnoxious.  The resellers want $2.5K, but they don't have a support staff that
21:54:56 <jerryasher> can answer questions (linux yes or no), and they don't have anyway to let you feel
21:55:00 <jerryasher> the keys before you purchase.
21:55:12 <jerryasher> So yeah, for good reasons I may have to send it back.
21:55:37 <davb> Yeah, a keyboard is pretty important. Good luck. I must finish shopping now (real life :)
21:56:07 <markd2> hiya
21:56:22 <markd2> it's the Jerry and Mark show
21:56:48 <jerryasher> I forget, am I the one that never says anything during the show?
21:57:35 <markd2> I thought I was
21:57:36 <davb> davb has quit ()
21:57:39 <markd2> maybe that's why we got cancelled
21:57:53 <Psychephylax> Jerry
21:58:01 <Psychephylax> Go to your local computer shacks :)
21:58:09 <Psychephylax> You can play with the keyboards there
21:58:39 <jerryasher> No one carries this particular model.
21:58:57 <jerryasher> (I called them all just yesterday.)
22:05:10 <markd2> what kind of keyboard?
22:05:41 <Psychephylax> what brand
22:05:45 <jerryasher> laptop keyboard.
22:06:02 <jerryasher> they are all so funky. both how they feel as well as their key layout
22:06:23 <jerryasher> And it's a place that many manufacturers use to cut costs.
22:06:48 <markd2> yeah
22:06:57 <markd2> and it's where geeks like us spend all of our time
22:07:52 <jerryasher> I usually like to pay more to get less (weight that is), but not if the machine is not usable.
22:08:30 <jerryasher> I used to walk two miles from home to school with a 3.5 lb IBM laptop - a very good compromise.
22:08:48 <jerryasher> It didn't have *everything* but it had all I needed and I could make it lighter by 
22:08:56 <jerryasher> leaving the floppy at home and things like that.
22:08:57 <markd2> shaving off plastic from the case
22:09:08 <jerryasher> Hmm.  I never thought of trying that.
22:09:34 <jerryasher> In the Toshiba case, I believe it's magnesium to shave.  Be careful or it will turn into
22:09:37 <jerryasher> thermite!
22:09:48 <markd2> heh
22:10:00 <markd2> "where's jerry?"  "he got killed by his laptop"
22:10:34 <jerryasher> It's always a bummer to be featured in the darwin awards.
22:11:33 <jerryasher> I think it's going to be an interesting experiment.
22:12:03 <jerryasher> I will let the basic laptop run the Windows OS it comes with and then use VMWare to run linux on top of that.
22:12:37 <jerryasher> That should get the best of both worlds, although I won't be able to get my $5 Windows OS rebate.
22:12:44 <markd2> bummer
22:14:20 <jerryasher> Oh well, I'll stop fantasizing for now, and continue cleaning my office.
22:14:57 <markd2> that was always a weekend-long affair for me
22:14:58 <markd2> * markd2 is a slob
22:17:11 <jerryasheraswell> jerryasheraswell (~jerry-irc@adsl-209-233-238-162.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
22:17:33 <markd2> he is sitting there beside himself
22:17:51 <jerryasher> cleaning up always leads me to
22:18:00 <jerryasheraswell> talking to myself
22:18:34 <jerryasher> When I get a new wireless laptop I can disconnect a few energy sucking pcs.
22:18:41 <jerryasher> bye!
22:18:46 <jerryasher> jerryasher has quit ()
22:19:14 <markd2> get one free
22:19:55 <jerryasheraswell> how?
22:21:30 <markd2> gotta bye one first
22:22:12 <Psychephylax> eh
22:22:34 <Psychephylax> Jerry, you're getting a Toshiba?
22:23:07 <jerryasheraswell> I am thinking of it, yes.
22:26:47 <jerryasheraswell> http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/tais/pc/pc_prodDetail.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0879978760.1008887235@@@@&BV_EngineID=eadcckfeliigbfekcghcfmfdglj.0&comm=CS&plin=Portable%20Computers&pfam=Portege&poid=204368&Adoid=141680
22:26:48 <chump> C: http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/tais/pc/pc_prodDetail.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0879978760.1008887235@@@@&BV_EngineID=eadcckfeliigbfekcghcfmfdglj.0&comm=CS&plin=Portable%20Computers&pfam=Portege&poid=204368&Adoid=141680 from jerryasheraswell
22:27:18 <jerryasheraswell> (what a stupid, unsharable URL...)
22:28:51 <markd2> but it's java.  so it has to be good!
22:29:18 <markd2> be sure to apply that XP patch when you get it
22:30:21 <jerryasheraswell> Windows, hmmm.  http://www.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Invasion%20of%20the%20Body%20Snatchers%20(1978)
22:31:09 <markd2> heh
22:31:56 <jerryasheraswell> Yeah, actually meant this one: http://www.imdb.com/Title?0049366
22:32:57 <markd2> cool.  two pop-under ads
22:33:19 <markd2> but a good movie
22:34:28 <jerryasheraswell> imdb, nytimes, latimes, salon, they've all gotten really heavy on the pop up ads lately.
22:34:39 <markd2> tis the shopping season
22:34:51 <Psychephylax> what model
22:34:57 <jerryasheraswell> I am hoping it gets worse, because the worse they make it, the sooner there will be
22:35:04 <markd2> I think just regular browser windows
22:35:07 <markd2> but sent to the back
22:35:09 <jerryasheraswell> easier features in the browsers to knock it off.
22:35:29 <jerryasheraswell> Some more expensive version of the 4000.  
22:35:35 <Psychephylax> lol
22:35:35 <Psychephylax> ok
22:36:02 <jerryasheraswell> they are trying to turn the net into TV as far as ads go.
22:36:17 <jerryasheraswell> jerryasheraswell is now known as jerryasher
22:36:19 <Psychephylax> too expensive for me
22:36:54 <jerryasher> the same price as when I last purchased a laptop
22:37:27 <jerryasher> that was a 3.5lb, 100Mhz, 24M, 800Mb IBM.
22:37:55 <jerryasher> With careful management of disk space, that one only recently became unusable.
22:38:13 <jerryasher> (the battery died so it can't unplug and play anymore.)
22:40:33 <Psychephylax> heh
23:02:51 <jerryasher> Well gotta run.  Talk to you folks later.
23:02:57 <jerryasher> jerryasher has quit ()
23:25:19 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax pokes markd2 
23:25:57 <markd2> * markd2 wakes up
23:26:33 <Psychephylax> heh
23:26:42 <Psychephylax> I was gonna ask you stuff
23:26:45 <Psychephylax> but everyone left
23:26:54 <Psychephylax> so...I'm going to follow and leave :)
23:26:58 <markd2> heh
23:27:00 <markd2> * markd2 waves
23:27:07 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax thwaps©
23:27:10 <Psychephylax> oops
23:27:13 <Psychephylax> I thwapped myself
23:27:15 <markd2> heh
23:27:17 <markd2> you'll go blind
23:27:22 <Psychephylax> hehehehehehe
23:29:28 <Psychephylax> What should I learn first
23:29:42 <Psychephylax> Java, C, C++, Visual Basic, Oracle
23:29:54 <markd2> hat do you want to do?
23:29:56 <markd2> er, what
23:30:00 <Psychephylax> Stuff
23:30:08 <Psychephylax> I want to do something really well
23:30:24 <markd2> I guess Java, since it has that built-in library of stuff
23:30:33 <Psychephylax> Why not C?
23:30:45 <markd2> C's pretty uninteresting when starting out
23:30:54 <Psychephylax> Explain starting out
23:31:06 <markd2> and you need some pretty solid grounding in C's basics and not-so-basics when using more sophisticated features
23:31:18 <markd2> starting out - hello world, learnign the ropes with data types and poitners
23:31:30 <Psychephylax> I can do hello world 
23:31:44 <markd2> most decent GUI libraries, fer instance, require a solid grounding in data structure concepts, pointers, and function pointers
23:31:50 <markd2> not to mention the various games with the preprocesso
23:31:54 <markd2> preprocessor
23:32:00 <Psychephylax> ok
23:32:51 <markd2> oh, and memory mangement too :-)
23:33:12 <markd2> I've been helping one of the young'uns in #wplug through some C programs he's doing for school
23:33:45 <markd2> and some "obvious" stuff that doesn't work is usually broken three different ways
23:34:00 <Psychephylax> Wanna help me?
23:34:10 <markd2> so long as it doesn't take too much time
23:34:11 <Psychephylax> I wanna learn but I don't know what kind of programs to write
23:34:34 <markd2> two things I usually do when faced with that
23:34:42 <markd2> is either re-implement something I already have and like
23:34:50 <markd2> or try something new, like computerize a board game I like
23:35:12 <Psychephylax> I'll talk to you later about this
23:35:18 <markd2> ok
23:35:24 <Psychephylax> :)
23:35:26 <Psychephylax> I have so much time
23:35:32 <Psychephylax> and so little knowledge
23:35:36 <Psychephylax> I want to improve
23:35:38 <markd2> heh
23:35:44 <markd2> that's a nice position to be in
23:35:48 <markd2> I'm kinda doing that now
23:35:56 <Psychephylax> Know at least 3 good programming languages (C++,Java,?) and databases
23:35:56 <markd2> taking my unemployement time and cramming my head full of new stuff
23:36:15 <Psychephylax> I want to be able to do stuff hehe
23:36:20 <Psychephylax> But now I have ot go home :)
23:36:27 <markd2> Java, Perl, and Lisp would be an interesting triplet to lear 
23:36:28 <markd2> learn
23:36:37 <Psychephylax> if you're on at about 8:30 or so I'll talk to you
23:36:39 <Psychephylax> Perl!
23:36:42 <markd2> ok
23:36:44 <Psychephylax> That's right..Perl!
23:36:52 <Psychephylax> I want to be good in C++,Java, Perl
23:36:56 <Psychephylax> And Oracle
23:37:09 <Psychephylax> Then I can do lots of stuff
23:37:24 <Psychephylax> I'll talk to you at like 8:30 about this :)
23:37:28 <Psychephylax> bbl!
23:37:49 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax prepares for "Honk honk honk...brake brake brake...honk honk punch...brake brake brake"
23:37:54 <Psychephylax> Ahhh..the joys of a commute
23:38:03 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax detaches