00:19:47 <markd2> http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/2001/12/09/news/cape/nct02.asp
00:19:48 <chump> H: http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/2001/12/09/news/cape/nct02.asp from markd2
00:19:56 <markd2> H:|Shoplifting techniques in South Africa
00:19:56 <chump> titled item H
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01:44:52 <davb> ironic, I can access the other windows machine great from Linux with Samba, but from windows, no go.
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05:00:56 <Psychephylax> hmm
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08:56:26 <beattiek> hey Meta, all.
08:57:35 <beattiek> nm that, X-chat bug.
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13:56:10 <ola> hi davb!
13:56:22 <davb> Hello
14:03:22 <davb> ola: did you see an email from the bboards about Oracle and AOlserver not shutting down? (if you subscribe to the bboards)
14:03:57 <ola> don't think so. when was this?
14:04:09 <davb> last night. I deleted it and I can't find the thread.
14:04:39 <davb> :)
14:05:17 <ola> lemme check...
14:05:19 <davb> darn. It might have been the testing or other bboard. 
14:05:20 <davb> oh well..
14:12:34 <ola> perhaps this one: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0003RT&topic_id=OpenACS&topic=
14:12:41 <ola> ?
14:13:35 <ola> hmm... that was today...:-P
14:15:17 <davb> thanks
14:15:19 <davb> ok.
14:15:23 <davb> for you :)
14:15:44 <davb> It was on my email when I got up this moring... :)
14:15:55 <davb> thanks!
14:16:19 <ola> davb: I installed qmail just now and wonder if I did the right thing when I chose "Maildir"?
14:16:23 <ola> np :-)
14:16:28 <davb> yes!
14:16:34 <davb> Maildir is the best.
14:16:57 <ola> cool. what client do you recommend?
14:17:03 <ola> mutt?
14:17:07 <davb> I use mutt as an IMAP client.
14:17:14 <davb> It works good for POP3 also.
14:17:31 <davb> Either that or the Mozilla client is not bad if you want and X windows client.
14:17:32 <ola> great, thanks
14:17:37 <davb> np.
14:17:39 <ola> ok
14:18:32 <davb> http://linuxbrit.co.uk/mutt/
14:18:32 <chump> A: http://linuxbrit.co.uk/mutt/ from davb
14:18:44 <davb> A:|Excellent example muttrc file.
14:18:44 <chump> titled item A
14:21:32 <ola> what about multiple domains? I have polyxena.net and infogettable.net. Should I put the domains in rcthosts and locals or use virtual domains?
14:23:44 <davb> I use virtual domains.
14:24:03 <davb> It depends. Do all the mail accounts have user accounts on the machine? If not use virtual domains.
14:24:16 <davb> I use vpopmail with courier-imap to do pop3 and imap.
14:24:28 <davb> vpopmail is all you need to do pop3.
14:24:59 <davb> Or check out the links at www.qmail.org there are alot.
14:27:32 <ola> ok. I guess I'll try vpopmail (my brother has an account but I think he'll want to use pop3)
14:29:11 <davb> http://www.inter7.com/vpopmail/
14:29:11 <chump> B: http://www.inter7.com/vpopmail/ from davb
14:29:21 <davb> B:|Vpopmail virtual domain support for qmail
14:29:21 <chump> titled item B
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15:04:16 <davb> http://www.web-graphics.com/
15:04:17 <chump> C: http://www.web-graphics.com/ from davb
15:04:51 <davb> C:|Web-Graphics.com - Information and Resources for hypertext interface designers
15:04:52 <chump> titled item C
15:10:53 <miguel_25> miguel_25 (~miguel25@cancerbero.unileon.es) has joined #openacs
15:10:59 <miguel_25> hi all!!
15:11:25 <davb> Welcome miguel_25
15:11:27 <ola> hey miguel_25!
15:12:30 <miguel_25> how are you doing?
15:12:35 <miguel_25> i am doing the problem sets
15:13:20 <miguel_25> i am working now on the problem set 1
15:13:27 <miguel_25> and i am having problems with one fuction
15:13:51 <ola> what's the problem?
15:14:24 <miguel_25> the system cannot use a fuction called db_foreach
15:14:37 <miguel_25> if you want i can give you the server.log
15:14:41 <ola> are you on 3.2.5?
15:14:56 <miguel_25> yes
15:15:09 <miguel_25> is there any problem with that version?
15:15:39 <ola> no. but it doesn't have that command by default.:-)
15:16:13 <ola> your Psets apper to be fot 4.X
15:16:29 <miguel_25> ok
15:16:36 <miguel_25> so how i can sort it out?
15:16:44 <ola> s/apper to be fot/appear to be for
15:17:44 <ola> I think you can add the new db API to 3.X. lemme check...
15:17:50 <miguel_25> ok
15:26:41 <ola> http://michael.cleverly.com/aolserver/nstcl/
15:26:42 <chump> D: http://michael.cleverly.com/aolserver/nstcl/ from ola
15:26:56 <ola> ola has quit ("changing universes")
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15:28:42 <ola> D:|nstcl: AOLserver / OpenNSD-style API routines for tclsh
15:28:42 <chump> titled item D
15:29:35 <davb> http://www.carnageblender.com/public/10-database-procs.tcl.txt
15:29:36 <chump> E: http://www.carnageblender.com/public/10-database-procs.tcl.txt from davb
15:29:55 <davb> E:|OpenACS 4 database API for OpenACS 3
15:29:55 <chump> titled item E
15:30:17 <davb> Make sure to use the pgdriver 2.1
15:30:31 <miguel_25> so which web site should i check?
15:30:38 <davb> also see this thread: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00019E&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS
15:31:05 <miguel_25> ok many thanks
15:31:14 <davb> The first one implements the AOLserver database commands in tcl so you can write a tcl program in the same manner as an aolserver tcl page.
15:31:29 <davb> the second one is the backport of the OpenACS 4 database API for OpenACS 3.
15:31:40 <miguel_25> ok
15:31:54 <miguel_25> so i guess that for working on the exercise of the problem set 1
15:32:08 <miguel_25> i will need to port the api to openacs 3 right?
15:32:54 <miguel_25> by the way, i am using the pgdriver 2.1
15:33:00 <miguel_25> and PgreSQL 7.1.3
15:33:34 <davb> If you use the ported API you should be able to use the database API that is in the psets, but I don't know if the psets use the user/group api in OpenACS 4 or not. 
15:34:26 <miguel_25> as far as i have read it seams that there are only a few modules group enables
15:34:31 <miguel_25> enabled sorry
15:34:49 <miguel_25> at least for the first problem set i think porting would be fine
15:35:01 <miguel_25> i dont know for the others :)
15:35:04 <miguel_25> many thanks for the links
15:38:16 <davb> good luck. I never did the psets. I just downloaded the code and started fooling around with it :)
15:38:55 <miguel_25> what tutorials, books or whatever did u use for fooling around with it :) ?
15:39:12 <miguel_25> i have to do them because my boss ask me to do them, but i am not very happy about it
15:39:35 <miguel_25> by the way ola tell me what it is the link you gave for.
15:44:00 <ola> miguel: I was confusing the AOLserver API with the ACS API... (the link that Dave gave you should work, though)
15:44:00 <miguel_25> davb: this link: http://www.carnageblender.com/public/10-database-procs.tcl.txt
15:44:14 <miguel_25> i just copy those proc definitions and it will work right?
15:44:55 <miguel_25> so yours is not relevant?
15:45:31 <ola> not really in this case...
15:46:08 <miguel_25> ok thanks anyway
15:46:13 <miguel_25> ;)
15:46:23 <ola> heh - sorry
15:46:52 <miguel_25> davb which tutorials, manuals, books did u use to get into the OpenACS tool?
15:48:23 <miguel_25> ive downloaded a tcl/tk draft book which looks fine
16:04:43 <miguel_25> by the way the only problem sets that i could find are for ACS version 3 or 4 right? there is no problem sets for openacs?
16:14:00 <davb> yes. but read that thread i pointed to. vinod found one that wasn't ported.
16:14:24 <davb> Yes. there are not OpenACS specific psets.
16:14:40 <davb> I read SQL for Web Nerds and Tcl for Web Nerds and "the book"
16:14:53 <davb> http://www.arsdigita.com/books/sql
16:14:53 <chump> F: http://www.arsdigita.com/books/sql from davb
16:14:58 <davb> F:|SQL for Web Nerds
16:14:58 <chump> titled item F
16:15:10 <davb> http://www.arsdigita.com/books/tcl
16:15:10 <chump> G: http://www.arsdigita.com/books/tcl from davb
16:15:15 <davb> G:|Tcl for Web Nerds
16:15:16 <chump> titled item G
16:15:32 <davb> also the aolserver documentation is good and has the Tcl reference along with the AOLserver Tcl/ADP apis.
16:15:54 <davb> http://aolserver.com/docs/
16:15:55 <chump> H: http://aolserver.com/docs/ from davb
16:16:02 <davb> H:|AOLserver documentation
16:16:02 <chump> titled item H
16:16:04 <miguel_25> ok ive got all of them
16:16:27 <miguel_25> i just downloaded a pdf draft of a book a guy suggested in the forums
16:16:31 <davb> Reading them through didn't really help, but when I have a tcl question or SQL question I reread them.
16:16:35 <miguel_25> http://www.beedub.com/book/
16:16:35 <chump> I: http://www.beedub.com/book/ from miguel_25
16:17:04 <davb> That is also supposed to be good. There are a few postgresql books around online also and the postgresql documentation.
16:17:41 <miguel_25> you mean the monjiam book?
16:17:53 <miguel_25> also the pdfs in the source distribution are good
16:17:57 <davb> That one, but there are a couple of other ones also.
16:18:05 <miguel_25> do you know anything else about PG¿?
16:18:12 <miguel_25> give any link pleas
16:18:38 <talli> talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
16:18:42 <davb> http://www.postgresql.info/
16:18:42 <chump> J: http://www.postgresql.info/ from davb
16:18:48 <davb> J:|Practical Postgresql
16:18:49 <chump> titled item J
16:18:58 <davb> J: good introduction to postgresql 
16:18:58 <chump> commented item J
16:19:01 <davb> hi talli
16:19:04 <talli> hey guys
16:19:49 <davb> does anyone know the URL for the technotes or techdocs or whatever postgresql resource page?
16:21:02 <miguel_25> do you know if there is a pdf version of the practical postgresql ?
16:22:30 <talli> you guys should also check out Essential PostgreSQL 
16:22:31 <talli> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735711216/qid=1008174230/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_3_1/104-2148058-6921566
16:22:32 <chump> K: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735711216/qid=1008174230/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_3_1/104-2148058-6921566 from talli
16:22:46 <talli> K: New PG book, kind of PG in a Nutshell thing
16:22:47 <chump> commented item K
16:23:07 <miguel_25> thanks talli
16:23:13 <talli> no prob
16:25:48 <miguel_25> do you know any link of a free book (pdf or html) apart of the one davb has just given of practical postgresql and the Monjiam´s book
16:25:49 <miguel_25> ?
16:26:15 <talli> no, those are the two that i know of
16:26:30 <talli> the momjn book is very much for beginners
16:27:00 <talli> and i haven't heard a lot of good stuff abotu the other
16:28:12 <miguel_25> the link you gave us, there is a html version or pdf? (i am a student so i rather prefer to take free books ;) )
16:29:16 <talli> mmm... i don't think so. check out the publishers site, or the homepage of the author
16:29:30 <talli> the truth is, though, that you should be able to get all of the info you need in three places
16:29:33 <talli> four places, sorry
16:29:35 <davb> google is your firend
16:29:40 <davb> friend
16:29:48 <talli> first, on the PG mailing list and the archives
16:30:02 <talli> second, on the PG website, adn the other pages davb gave you
16:30:17 <talli> third, on the OACS website, where everyone helps and DonB is a god
16:30:29 <talli> and fourth, in this IRC channel, where markd is the reigning god
16:31:03 <miguel_25> ok i checked in the two first places
16:31:10 <miguel_25> i havent asked to DonB
16:31:20 <miguel_25> neither to markd. where is he?
16:31:34 <talli> don't email donb directly, just post something to the OACS bboards and people will help
16:31:39 <talli> markd comes by once in a while
16:31:53 <miguel_25> so far i just found monjiam´s book, the pdfs of the source distribution
16:31:57 <talli> and Psychephylax should help you too, since he got by all summer in this room asking for help
16:32:01 <talli> isn't that right, Psychephylax
16:32:13 <davb> He is in finals mode...
16:32:21 <miguel_25> he he he
16:32:39 <talli> ah...
16:32:47 <miguel_25> and the docs of the PG web site
16:33:00 <miguel_25> in the PG mailing lists nobody has given me any link
16:33:29 <miguel_25> and by the way i am looking around from the web link davb has just given me to see if i can find something
16:33:48 <davb> postgresql.orgs database is down 
16:33:52 <davb> very ironic
16:34:12 <talli> whoa
16:34:29 <davb> try  also
16:34:33 <miguel_25> he he he
16:34:37 <davb> http://techdocs.postgresql.org 
16:34:37 <chump> L: http://techdocs.postgresql.org from davb
16:34:42 <davb> if it ever comes back up.
16:34:55 <talli> davb, did you give him roberto's page?
16:35:21 <talli> roberto mello is also very helpful. he's a serious PG hacker
16:35:23 <talli> http://www.brasileiro.net/postgres/
16:35:23 <chump> M: http://www.brasileiro.net/postgres/ from talli
16:35:34 <talli> miguel_25: roberto's PG page of info
16:35:36 <miguel_25> roberto´s mello¿
16:35:49 <miguel_25> is he brazilian?
16:35:55 <talli> yeah
16:35:57 <talli> brazilian
16:36:07 <miguel_25> cool
16:36:20 <talli> so maybe you guys can try and speak spanish to portugese and vice versa :)
16:36:45 <miguel_25> i guess portuguese and brazilians are much better at spanish that we are at portuguese
16:36:55 <miguel_25> i dont know why but they are good at languages
16:37:36 <miguel_25> does he connect to this channel?
16:38:50 <talli> yes, but i think that he is in the midst of finals as well because he's disappeared for a while
16:39:07 <talli> but he'll be back. he's one of the OACS gatekeepers
16:39:09 <miguel_25> ok
16:39:10 <miguel_25> he he he
16:39:13 <miguel_25> we are all in troubles 
16:39:55 <talli> yeah. but roberto is a bit insane because he used to be in medical school and quit so that he could be an undergraduate computer science student
16:40:09 <talli> so he is a smarty pants, but an insane smarty pants
16:40:55 <miguel_25> he he he
16:41:02 <miguel_25> lol
16:41:48 <miguel_25> well i think we all in CS are a bit insane dont u think so? sometimes i thinking about quit and moving to a more calm thing maybe gardening? :)
16:42:24 <talli> i studied EE, but i kind of cheated because i made my own major and skipped all the really hard classes, like fields
16:42:55 <talli> but to be honest, after i graduated, i'm glad i studied engineering and kind of bummed i didn't take those hard classes. 
16:43:11 <talli> you learn a lot, and you learn how to learn as well
16:43:44 <talli> that being said, none of my peers had any clue about how to write a sentence, and i don't come anywhere near using any of my EE degree
16:43:57 <talli> i haven't solved a differential equation since my last final
16:44:36 <davb> talli: do you know if pat installed openacs from CVS?
16:44:51 <davb> or anyone else? I can't get the OpenACS 4 checkout to install.
16:46:53 <miguel_25> what do u mean none of yours peers know how to write a sentence? i think you are right the best thing about an engineering background is you learn of how to learn
16:47:22 <talli> none of my peers at school were capable of expressing themselves very well. the lab reports they would write were pathetic
16:47:41 <talli> it's critically important that people be able to express themselves in writing. 
16:48:06 <talli> thankfully, a rich alum of my school donated 20 million dollars to the schol JUST to set up a program to teach engineers to write
16:48:47 <talli> when you graduate and you have a job, you'll see how important it is that your boss be able to write specs well, that the software you use is documented well, that you can submit reports that others can understand, etc.
16:49:37 <miguel_25> thats the worst part of engineering, people think that to a literate person is something to be ashamed of
16:50:04 <miguel_25> what do you work for?
16:50:37 <talli> musea technologies, an OACS company
16:50:45 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax seeks his killer sleeping robot after talli 
16:51:01 <Psychephylax> :-D
16:51:36 <Psychephylax> I agree with talli's statement about being able to write and convey your ideas clearly
16:51:57 <Psychephylax> Right now I'm working on a school project that has incomplete specs...it's very frustrating
16:52:05 <miguel_25> psychephylax do u know any interesting link about PG?
16:52:10 <Psychephylax> nope
16:52:15 <Psychephylax> I like Oracle :)
16:52:25 <miguel_25> he he he
16:52:25 <miguel_25> ok
16:52:26 <talli> yeah right, you like oracle
16:52:37 <Psychephylax> And Sybase is weak...I can't even name constraints!!!
16:52:58 <talli> Psyche all summer: "markd2, how do i ask oracle to come out and play?"
16:53:07 <Psychephylax> hehehehe
16:53:13 <Psychephylax> You mean fall :)
16:54:13 <talli> oh, right. sorry
16:54:16 <Psychephylax> I can't believe it..my boss gave me a week off to finish school (finals and all)
16:54:50 <miguel_25> you are about to graduate?
16:55:40 <Psychephylax> in 4 days
16:55:52 <Psychephylax> Assuming I pass all my classes
16:55:53 <Psychephylax> :-/
16:56:09 <miguel_25> good luck then
16:56:58 <Psychephylax> Thanks
16:58:40 <miguel_25> so talli you to
16:58:40 <miguel_25> ld me to ask in OACS forums about books of PG¿
16:58:52 <Psychephylax> talli is a genius :)
17:03:50 <miguel_25> talli you work with PG ?
17:06:16 <Psychephylax> isn't Oracle varchar2 up to 4000 bytes not 255 like Sybase?
17:06:53 <davb> yes
17:07:10 <Psychephylax> Just another reason why I love Oracle and hate Sybase :-D
17:07:24 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax gives dave cold squid
17:07:50 <Psychephylax> anyone have a laptop here?
17:09:15 <talli> talli has quit ()
17:18:39 <davb> I have an old IBM
17:20:41 <Psychephylax> I'm looking for a laptop :)
17:26:13 <davb> IBMs are very nice, but a little more expensive.
17:26:19 <Psychephylax> yeah I know
17:26:37 <Psychephylax> I'm looking for one under 1500 
17:28:19 <talli> talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
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17:38:32 <Psychephylax> wb
17:39:15 <miguel_25> i am just wondering the OACS 4 is perfectly working or it is a beta version?
17:41:38 <talli> miguel_25: OACS4 works nicely, but it will only go into beta next week
17:41:47 <talli> it should be released by the first of the year
17:42:07 <talli> that means there won't be horrible amounts of bugs and what is there works for what it is worth
17:42:31 <talli> however, there are some major pieces of the system that either need to be removed, optimized or completley rewritten
17:42:47 <miguel_25> by the way ACS which is the current and lately version?
17:43:04 <talli> most of that is legacy code from aD
17:43:29 <talli> OACS4 will be more or less equivalent to ACS4.2. actually, no it won't
17:43:44 <talli> OACS4 will be the next "official" release of ACS4.2
17:43:49 <talli> only it will be much much better
17:44:30 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@r-41.98.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
17:45:41 <miguel_25> what about ACS, will be left over?
17:51:53 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax hands mark a cookie
17:52:03 <markd2> cookies!!!
17:52:21 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax gives Mark some milk to go with his tasty cookies
17:52:28 <markd2> thankyou thankyou
17:52:34 <Psychephylax> no problem :)
17:52:57 <Psychephylax> Any ideas how to validate input in java? I only want them to enter numbers, not strings
17:53:26 <miguel_25> does anyone has experienced a strange behaviour of .tcl pages under Netscape 6.2?
17:53:33 <markd2> use the Integer.parsestring (or whatever it is)
17:53:36 <markd2> and catch the exception
17:53:45 <markd2> if no exception it's good, if you get an exception, complain
17:54:57 <Psychephylax> I was considering checking what keys the user enters
17:55:06 <markd2> that's a world of hurt
17:55:15 <Psychephylax> nah, there's an event for it
17:55:35 <markd2> just integers?
17:55:35 <markd2> or decimal numbers too?
17:56:19 <Psychephylax> just integers
17:56:59 <Psychephylax> I just check if e.VK_0 || e.VK_1 || e.VK_2...etc then ok else "txtStatus.setText(blah);
17:57:17 <markd2> no negative numbers?
17:58:24 <Psychephylax> you can't have a negative number for a book copy
17:58:29 <Psychephylax> that would be funny
17:58:29 <Psychephylax> lol
17:58:45 <Psychephylax> yeah, I'd like to borrow that -3 copy of your Java in a Nutshel please
17:58:48 <markd2> then you should be OK
17:58:48 <markd2> heh
18:04:12 <Psychephylax> :)
18:04:15 <Psychephylax> Sybase sucks
18:04:18 <Psychephylax> it doesn't let you name constraints
18:04:22 <Psychephylax> How horrible!
18:04:29 <markd2> oh the horror
18:13:49 <talli> * talli is away (Auto-away on idle) after 30min idle [msglog:on]
18:45:16 <ola> ola has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
19:40:52 <ola> ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs
19:51:03 <miguel_25> welcome back ola
19:54:09 <ola> thanks!
19:54:11 <miguel_25> does anyone know what is the nvl function for?
19:54:27 <miguel_25> i am checking the sql for web nerds and i cant find that function
19:54:41 <davb> check this:
19:55:04 <davb> http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/guidelines.html?version_id=172
19:55:04 <chump> N: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/guidelines.html?version_id=172 from davb
19:55:15 <davb> the corresponding function in PG is coalesce
19:55:27 <miguel_25> many thanks davb
19:55:33 <markd2> nvl is a "null value" function
19:55:42 <miguel_25> ok 
19:55:45 <miguel_25> thanks
19:55:55 <markd2> nvl (column, 'cookies') will return 'cookies' for the rows if column is null
19:57:04 <miguel_25> ahhh ok now i got the sense
19:57:13 <miguel_25> first time i see this kind of function
20:01:08 <miguel_25> many thanks for the link
20:02:57 <davb> np
20:03:39 <davb> Yeah! Its not just me. The CVS is broken.
20:06:04 <miguel_25> by the way someone told me before that I needed pgdriver 2.1. Ive just got pgdriver-2.0.1 is that the current one?
20:09:26 <ola> miguel_25: yes it is.
20:09:34 <miguel_25> ok thanks
20:09:49 <davb> ok.
20:09:54 <davb> My mistake.
20:13:12 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("Bork")
20:13:59 <markd2> markd2 (~Snak@r-41.98.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
20:16:30 <miguel_25> no problem davb
20:16:41 <miguel_25> i am checking the guide for porting oracle code to PG
20:17:09 <miguel_25> and they say that there is an issue with CLOBS. Is that fixed with the new releases in PG right?
20:18:14 <talli> what guide is that? roberto's guide?
20:18:21 <talli> * talli returns
20:19:40 <miguel_25> no 
20:19:44 <miguel_25> this link
20:19:45 <miguel_25> http://openacs.org/doc/openacs/html/oracle-to-pg-porting.html
20:19:46 <chump> O: http://openacs.org/doc/openacs/html/oracle-to-pg-porting.html from miguel_25
20:23:26 <miguel_25> where is roberto´s
20:23:27 <miguel_25> Ç?
20:30:18 <talli> miguel_25: roberto's porting guide is at his website www.brasileiro.net/
20:30:32 <talli> but it shoudl be the same one you are using
20:31:23 <miguel_25> ok
20:32:12 <miguel_25> i am porting all the useful html docs that i found to pdf so i rather prefer to have the most updated docs
20:39:08 <Psychephylax> hahaha
20:39:22 <Psychephylax> I just came back from my first day of trying out the local gym
20:39:34 <Psychephylax> the treadmill there told me I will die soon
20:40:02 <miguel_25> watch out mate
20:40:06 <miguel_25> ;)
20:42:56 <Psychephylax> heh
20:43:47 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax waves a tasty cookie for Mark
20:44:39 <markd2> * markd2 wakes up
20:45:37 <Psychephylax> stupid question but it is possible to increment everything in a column by one using a trigger (without using stored procedures though) right?
20:45:52 <markd2> I guess
20:45:56 <markd2> or you could use an update statement
20:46:04 <Psychephylax> well
20:46:09 <Psychephylax> would this work?
20:47:13 <Psychephylax> select cookie from cookie_jar (update cookie_jar set cookie = cookie + 1)
20:47:33 <markd2> you can't have an update as a subquery - what would it return?
20:47:47 <markd2> just the update cookie_jar set cookie = cookie + 1;
20:47:55 <Psychephylax> ok
20:47:58 <Psychephylax> let me try this
20:50:14 <miguel_25> bye guys
20:50:23 <Psychephylax> ok cool
20:50:24 <Psychephylax> it works
20:50:25 <Psychephylax> bye miguel_25 
20:50:26 <markd2> woot!
20:50:30 <markd2> get one free
20:50:36 <miguel_25> miguel_25 has quit ()
20:50:40 <Psychephylax> lol
20:52:13 <Psychephylax> I am in "very poor" shape as the treadmill told me
20:52:34 <talli> Psychephylax, are you going to ask markd2 for help with that, too?
20:52:39 <Psychephylax> heh
20:52:40 <Psychephylax> no
20:52:50 <talli> markd2, can you help him with that?
20:52:59 <Psychephylax> He already has
20:53:02 <Psychephylax> he eats all my cookies
20:53:07 <talli> maybe send him some 360s to blow up
20:53:13 <talli> better yet, 260s
20:55:46 <Psychephylax> :(
20:56:34 <ola> ola has quit ("changing universes")
20:58:40 <davb> Psychephylax: you will get better very quickly as long as you exercise at least 1/2 hour 3 times a week.
20:59:18 <markd2> heh
20:59:19 <Psychephylax> That's what I figured
20:59:29 <markd2> see if he can inflate one of the 646's in one lungfull
20:59:31 <Psychephylax> But I need a buddy to work out with me :)
20:59:37 <markd2> I can occasionally inflate 160s
20:59:41 <Psychephylax> What's a 646?
20:59:43 <markd2> but most of the time I just hurt myself
20:59:47 <markd2> it's a big balloon
20:59:52 <Psychephylax> oh
20:59:52 <markd2> 6" diameter, ~46" long
21:01:29 <Psychephylax> Mark, can you do comparisons in a trigger?
21:01:38 <Psychephylax> like if something is not null then do this else don't
21:01:46 <davb> aigh
21:01:49 <markd2> sure
21:01:55 <Psychephylax> ok
21:02:50 <Psychephylax> ok
21:02:56 <Psychephylax> so I have this statement: update Withdrawn set Reminder = Reminder + 1
21:03:07 <Psychephylax> I need to make it update only the things that don't have NULL
21:03:40 <markd2> uh... null + 1 == null
21:03:43 <markd2> so you don't need to do any work
21:03:47 <Psychephylax> Cool
21:03:47 <Psychephylax> !
21:03:50 <Psychephylax> :-D
21:03:56 <markd2> I guess you slept through that part of the lecture
21:04:03 <markd2> Zzzzzzzz ooo :-)
21:04:04 <Psychephylax> Maybe
21:04:08 <markd2> k:-O
21:04:10 <Psychephylax> although that sounds vaguely familiar
21:04:12 <markd2> oh my god!  there's an axe in my head
21:04:31 <Psychephylax> rofl
21:05:17 <Psychephylax> ok
21:05:41 <Psychephylax> another trigger (sorry I never used triggers so I don't knwo what they are capable of)
21:05:45 <Psychephylax> question
21:06:12 <Psychephylax> What happens if the column is empty and I try to increment the values in it 
21:06:13 <markd2> basically it's just a piece of arbitrary code that runs either before or after an insert/update or delete
21:06:17 <Psychephylax> will that crap out or just nothing will happen
21:06:25 <markd2> if empty == null, then null + 1 = null
21:07:04 <Psychephylax> no I mean if you have a table but the table contains no data 
21:07:18 <markd2> it'll just then do the work on zero rows
21:07:20 <markd2> so you'll be ok
21:07:24 <Psychephylax> cool
21:07:33 <Psychephylax> ok
21:07:36 <Psychephylax> so I did the easy part
21:07:57 <Psychephylax> this part of this trigger has to go through a table and do something to all the books that match the criteria
21:08:40 <Psychephylax> I'm thinking it would be a subquery into an update
21:09:32 <markd2> * markd2 looks confused
21:09:43 <markd2> I'm thinking of triggers in the oracle sense
21:09:50 <markd2> in that they happen on inserts/updates/deletes
21:09:56 <Psychephylax> right
21:10:01 <markd2> if you have some code that's being executed regularly (like a job), you can do anything you want to in there
21:10:03 <Psychephylax> This is what I have (trying to do)
21:10:23 <Psychephylax> We have a Rollover table that has an Uptime row
21:10:27 <Psychephylax> it stores an int...
21:10:41 <Psychephylax> When the user hits Next Day in the interface....the number is incremented by one
21:10:56 <Psychephylax> I am writing a trigger on that update that does this:
21:11:10 <Psychephylax> Updates books that are out to be "Out for x+1 days"
21:11:23 <Psychephylax> Updates the days since last reminder by incrementing it by one
21:11:27 <markd2> ok
21:11:54 <Psychephylax> Then a book that has been on hold for 3 days reverts back to on-shelf status
21:12:42 <Psychephylax> And if Out for 3 days then I need to set Reminder to be 0 
21:13:19 <markd2> update books set status = on-shelf if status = on-hold and days_on_hold = 3;
21:13:24 <markd2> s/if/where/
21:13:30 <Psychephylax> ok
21:13:57 <Psychephylax> How about this
21:14:00 <markd2> update books set reminder = 0 where status=out and days_out = 3;
21:14:01 <Psychephylax> update Withdrawn set Reminder = 0 where Reminder < 3
21:14:10 <Psychephylax> Ack
21:14:40 <Psychephylax> i'll show you my full trigger when I finish
21:14:44 <markd2> sounds kinky
21:14:55 <Psychephylax> yeah. :)
21:19:48 <Psychephylax> ok
21:19:54 <Psychephylax> This is the hard one for me
21:20:20 <Psychephylax> I need to update a different table from what the trigger is on
21:20:39 <markd2> what's hard about that?
21:20:44 <Psychephylax> not sure yet
21:20:46 <markd2> update table2 set cookies='more' where user='markd'
21:22:18 <Psychephylax> ok
21:22:22 <Psychephylax> this is what I have:
21:22:36 <Psychephylax> a HoldQueue table with ISBN, DaysOnHold
21:23:14 <talli> * talli is away (Auto-away on idle) after 30min idle [msglog:on]
21:23:37 <Psychephylax> wait...I think I might have a slight problem here
21:24:18 <Psychephylax> not me..my friend :)
21:27:54 <Psychephylax> ok
21:28:24 <Psychephylax> this is the problem my friend conjured up
21:28:45 <Psychephylax> We have a HoldQueue table
21:29:02 <Psychephylax> Basically when people want to hold a book for 2 days that's where it gets stored
21:30:16 <Psychephylax> The rule is that after 3 days the person who put the book on hold gets removed and the book goes back to on-shelf status
21:30:34 <Psychephylax> However, I asked him what happens if there are 2 people who want the book on Hold
21:30:48 <Psychephylax> and the second one puts it on hold 2 days after
21:31:32 <Psychephylax> then it should be on hold still 
21:31:40 <Psychephylax> until there are 0 people who want the book on hold
21:32:09 <davb> you have one record for each book/patron hold in the holdqueue?
21:33:09 <Psychephylax> the holdqueue has the ISBN of the book, the id of the person who has it on hold, days on hold, position (I'm guessing in the queue) and lastcalled (to remind them about something)
21:34:55 <davb> How about putting the date it was put on hold in there.
21:35:04 <markd2> http://web.0sil8.com/episodes/megway/home.html
21:35:04 <chump> P: http://web.0sil8.com/episodes/megway/home.html from markd2
21:35:11 <davb> Then you can order them and just compare the onhold date to the current date to decide if it comes off or not.
21:35:22 <Psychephylax> hmmm
21:35:25 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax thinks
21:35:27 <markd2> P:|MTH - Megway Transporting Human
21:35:27 <chump> titled item P
21:35:36 <markd2> P:Revolutionizes transportation
21:35:37 <chump> commented item P
21:35:52 <davb> ohmigod some people have too much time!
21:36:04 <Psychephylax> Mark
21:36:12 <Psychephylax> can you combine two things into one statement?
21:36:16 <Psychephylax> I need a delete and update
21:36:27 <Psychephylax> where the update uses one of the variables from delete
21:36:33 <markd2> why would you combine them in one statement?
21:36:39 <markd2> hmmm
21:36:50 <markd2> please elaborate
21:37:39 <Psychephylax> well, I need to delete from HoldQueue where DaysOnHold > 3 AND then I need to update the Copy table and set the status of the ISBN that was just freed to be on shelf and do it only if there are no more people who want this book on hold
21:37:58 <markd2> you'll need two statements
21:37:59 <markd2> but just do them serially
21:38:12 <Psychephylax> But how will the update know what the ISBN of the freed book was?
21:38:21 <markd2> oh
21:38:33 <Psychephylax> yeah
21:38:36 <Psychephylax> ..oh :p
21:38:53 <markd2> update table set blah = whetever where isbn = (select isbn from ook where your_delete_predicate);
21:38:59 <markd2> delete from ook where your_delete_predicate
21:39:09 <Psychephylax> elaborate
21:39:28 <markd2> not much more I can elaborate
21:39:40 <markd2> lemme know what word you don't understand :-)
21:39:49 <Psychephylax> delete_predicate
21:40:02 <markd2> that's your where clause that you decide what to delete
21:40:11 <Psychephylax> delete from HoldQueue where DaysOnHold > 3 
21:40:13 <Psychephylax> update Copy set Status = on-shelf where Status = on-hold AND (select count(*) where ISBN = ISBNfromDelete)
21:40:13 <markd2> where cookies = ketchep and topping = spam
21:40:44 <markd2> this ain't C.  your AND statement is syntax error
21:40:54 <Psychephylax> why
21:40:57 <markd2> it just is
21:41:06 <markd2> SQL ain't C
21:41:06 <Psychephylax> Explain this isn't C stuff
21:41:16 <markd2> "1" isn't "true" in sql
21:41:18 <markd2> so you can't do "AND 1"
21:41:29 <markd2> you can do "and exists (select 1 from blah where isbn = whatever)"
21:41:49 <Psychephylax> oh
21:41:55 <Psychephylax> I forgot to add a comparison statement
21:42:15 <Psychephylax> should have = 0 on the end
21:42:27 <markd2> ok
21:42:29 <markd2> then that should work
21:42:41 <Psychephylax> but I don't know how to get the ISBN!!!!
21:42:42 <Psychephylax> :-(
21:42:58 <markd2> select isbn from books where your_delete_predicate
21:43:05 <markd2> there's this magical thing called 'transactions'
21:43:14 <markd2> you can do multiple statements and do work
21:43:15 <Psychephylax> Hmm
21:43:24 <markd2> you don't have to cram it all into one statement
21:43:30 <markd2> sybase has some procedural extensions.  use them
21:43:40 <Psychephylax> This isn't worth my time though :)
21:43:49 <Psychephylax> I'd rather use Oracle in the first place
21:44:31 <Psychephylax> There has to be a way to combine the two statements
21:45:01 <markd2> not an update and a delete
21:45:09 <markd2> just give up on that tack
21:45:12 <markd2> you'll waste a lot of time
21:45:24 <Psychephylax> hmmm
21:45:58 <markd2> can you do this work in java-land?
21:46:04 <davb> good luck
21:46:06 <Psychephylax> i could
21:46:08 <davb> davb has quit ()
21:46:09 <markd2> do it there.
21:46:11 <markd2> much much much easier
21:46:22 <markd2> use a query to get your isbn, walk through it using loops and whatnot
21:46:24 <Psychephylax> I was hoping to impress the professor 
21:46:31 <Psychephylax> by using a trigger
21:46:34 <markd2> you'll just impress him by misunderstanding basic SQL
21:46:43 <Psychephylax> heh
21:46:50 <markd2> sounds like he's a dork anyway
21:46:56 <Psychephylax> he is
21:47:18 <Psychephylax> oh well
21:47:23 <Psychephylax> I'll jsut do the removal of a book now
22:00:08 <Psychephylax> bbiab
22:08:25 <til> til (tils@port-212-202-128-205.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs
22:08:35 <markd2> hiya
22:08:51 <til> hi there
22:10:32 <Psychephylax> hmm
22:27:14 <Psychephylax> Mark?
22:27:18 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax waves a cookie
22:28:24 <markd2> hmmmm?
22:28:33 <markd2> * markd2 blames canada
22:28:43 <Psychephylax> does Oracle have "Referencing" in Triggers?
22:28:54 <markd2> don't know
22:28:55 <markd2> what does that mean?
22:29:17 <Psychephylax> REFERENCING clause The REFERENCING OLD and REFERENCING
22:29:17 <Psychephylax> NEW clauses allow you to refer to the deleted and inserted rows. For the
22:29:17 <Psychephylax> purposes of this clause, an UPDATE is treated as a delete followed by an
22:29:31 <markd2> yes
22:29:38 <markd2> you can use the (I think) :new and :old metathingies
22:29:52 <markd2> :new.thingie = :old.something * 2;
22:30:31 <Psychephylax> But this doesn't help my problem does it?
22:30:41 <markd2> nope
22:30:48 <Psychephylax> what about Create Variable?
22:30:57 <markd2> I'm not going to talk about it anymore
22:31:01 <Psychephylax> lol
22:31:06 <Psychephylax> alright alright :(
22:31:10 <markd2> I think it's a waste of time, so I'm not going to waste my time
22:31:15 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax wrestles the cookie away from Mark
22:31:18 <markd2> besides, I have an oracle test tomorrow =:-O
22:31:28 <til> til has quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds)
22:31:30 <Psychephylax> Good luck
22:31:35 <markd2> I'll need it
22:31:43 <markd2> scoring 70 and 80 percents on my practice tests
22:31:51 <markd2> I usually do 5-10% better on the real test than the practice ones
22:31:54 <markd2> so I'm hoping that holds
22:33:19 <Psychephylax> :/
22:33:54 <markd2> k||-O
22:33:56 <markd2> oh my god!
22:34:01 <markd2> Geordi has an axe in his head!
22:34:14 <Psychephylax> rofl
22:35:38 <talli> markd2: how high do you have to score in order to pass an oracle DBA test?
22:36:21 <markd2> something insanely low
22:36:25 <markd2> 2% or something
22:36:28 <markd2> (or maybe 60%)
22:36:47 <markd2> so unless I *totally* choke, I should at least pass
22:36:59 <markd2> but it Just Won't Be Right if I don't do really well :-)
22:39:15 <talli> i understand. what grade do you need to get in order for your parents to let you go to cheer leading practice and talk to Bobby, school QB and heartthrob, on the phone?
22:39:18 <talli> * talli returns
22:39:31 <markd2> heh
22:40:47 <markd2> k:-O?
22:40:53 <markd2> "Oh My God!  There's an Axe in Jay Leno's Head!"
22:41:06 <Psychephylax> talli, how do you like Peace and Protection?
22:46:12 <Psychephylax> lol...*finally reads what talli said above*
22:46:36 <markd2> sounds like Talli had quite an... interesting... high school life
22:49:04 <Psychephylax> lol
22:50:27 <Psychephylax> Mark, can I delete from multiple tables? like this:
22:50:41 <Psychephylax> delete from Copy, Author, Book where isbn=1111
22:50:48 <markd2> nope
22:50:50 <Psychephylax> Assuming I delete in the proper order
22:50:55 <Psychephylax> Are you sure?
22:50:56 <markd2> there's this magical thing called a "transaction" ....
22:51:05 <Psychephylax> heh
22:51:26 <Psychephylax> what about drop table blah, blord, goobers
22:51:29 <Psychephylax> Can I do that?
22:51:41 <markd2> db dependent, but I don't think so
22:51:57 <markd2> in oracle you can't
22:52:28 <markd2> that should be a rare enough situation, so I doubt that's high on the implementaiton pipeline
22:52:51 <Psychephylax> hehe
22:52:53 <Psychephylax> Ok
22:54:20 <talli> have you guys ever had any experience with Rbase?
22:54:48 <Psychephylax> talli how do you like Peace and Protection?
22:55:09 <talli> peace and protection is pretty nice, but i'm using something else on this computer.
22:55:14 <talli> just wanted to try something out
22:55:16 <Psychephylax> ah
22:55:22 <talli> but it's nice
22:55:30 <Psychephylax> :(
22:55:31 <Psychephylax> ack
22:55:33 <talli> i used a linux client that was better than both
22:55:34 <Psychephylax> figured you'd like it
22:55:54 <talli> i definitely like it more than this once. whose name i forget
22:55:54 <markd2> Peace and Protection?
22:55:58 <markd2> sounds pastoral
22:56:18 <talli> its an application built by Dubyah's Homeland Security Office
22:56:47 <talli> they also recently released an aerosal spray called Evil-Doers Away!
22:56:52 <talli> i heard it works real nice
22:58:03 <Psychephylax> hmmm
22:58:12 <Psychephylax> status = NOT (on-hold)?
22:58:46 <talli> is that another one of those extremely instructive DB error messages?
23:00:28 <Psychephylax> or no
23:00:43 <Psychephylax> i am trying to figure out how to get the count of things that are NOT on hold
23:00:51 <markd2> status <> 'on-hold'
23:00:57 <Psychephylax> oh
23:01:04 <markd2> this is a database class you're taking?
23:01:10 <markd2> sounds like they didn't cover basic sql
23:01:38 <Psychephylax> you know...they did not
23:01:42 <Psychephylax> at least not very well
23:01:55 <Psychephylax> He glanced over it waaaaay back in the beginning of the semester
23:02:09 <Psychephylax> and then jumped into the "theory" as how they store indicies and stuff
23:02:17 <markd2> heh
23:02:25 <markd2> those are implementation details
23:02:33 <markd2> theory is the set algebra stuff
23:02:35 <Psychephylax> yeah, what's more useful?
23:02:56 <markd2> all of it!  muahahahahaha
23:03:01 <Psychephylax> uh huh
23:03:04 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax thwaps miguel_25 
23:03:06 <Psychephylax> ack
23:03:09 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax thwaps markd2 
23:03:33 <markd2> those are uncopyrighted thwaps!
23:04:19 <Psychephylax> oh my
23:04:21 <Psychephylax> lol
23:28:46 <talli> * talli is away (Auto-away on idle) after 30min idle [msglog:on]
23:36:55 <markd2> markd2 has quit ("la la la la")