IRC log of openacs on 2001-11-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:05:12 [wtem]
wtem (~wtem@c1203094-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com) has joined #openacs
00:05:24 [wtem]
howdy everyone
00:05:52 [wtem]
anyone have a set of eyes for debugging available?
02:39:57 [wtem]
guess not, later
02:40:00 [wtem]
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18:48:28 [rbm]
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18:48:37 [rbm]
Hello everyone
18:48:56 [rbm]
Had enough turkey yet?
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20:26:09 [ChanServ]
[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
21:19:47 [til]
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22:17:12 [talli]
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22:17:24 [talli]
hey guys
22:17:51 [rbm]
talli!
22:17:57 [rbm]
Just the man I was looking for.
22:18:02 [talli]
tell me about it...
22:18:21 [talli]
how's life treatin' ya?
22:18:30 [rbm]
I'm sick, but I'm okay.
22:18:38 [rbm]
Good news.
22:18:42 [talli]
bummer. working too hard? did the conference wear you down?
22:18:56 [talli]
glad to hear you got some because i sure as hell need some.
22:19:48 [rbm]
I was able to get the tools to work with the .xml files (following Vinod's tip), and am finishing the roadmap and tools guidelines.
22:20:04 [rbm]
There's only a couple things that I haven't figured out yet.
22:20:26 [rbm]
talli: Why? What's wrong?
22:20:46 [rbm]
talli: The conference wore me down, and I've been working too hard, and I have the flu :)
22:22:16 [talli]
killer, taht's great to hear about the roadmap. i'm looking forward to get that rolling
22:24:58 [rbm]
talli: (WARNING: There's not much there) Take a look at: http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/test/ldp/ and then at http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/test/nwalsh/
22:25:13 [rbm]
Ignore the funky "A"s. My AOLserver is doing something funky.
22:25:45 [talli]
cool! is all this stuff generated by docbook?
22:26:07 [rbm]
talli: Yes.
22:26:15 [talli]
that's rad
22:26:32 [talli]
is XSLT as much a bitch as i've heard?
22:26:38 [rbm]
We need to pick a DSL to go with. Did you notice the differences between the 2?
22:26:46 [talli]
yes, i did
22:27:23 [talli]
i don't really care
22:27:45 [talli]
i'm fine with either. what is the DSL anyway? document style?
22:28:08 [rbm]
The nwalsh one is the "standard" chunks.dsl from N.Walsh. The "ldp" one is a modified version of nwalsh's by the Linux Documentation Project. I think it's nicer because it puts numbers and is not so clunky.
22:28:16 [rbm]
talli: Yes. XSLT is a PITA.
22:28:55 [talli]
ok, well i think we should go with the Linux Documentation Project stuff if they are trying to set a standard for all OSS or GPL documentation
22:29:09 [talli]
do you think we need to add anything to the standard DTD or to aD's DTD?
22:30:07 [rbm]
talli: The cool thing is that we can always use nwalsh's dsl if we need to. DSL is the style sheet used to give "look" to the document (not formatting. That's done by the .xsl file)
22:30:31 [rbm]
talli: I'd vote to avoid ANYTHING that would add to the complexity of this shebang.
22:30:47 [talli]
that sounds like a sound decision to me
22:30:58 [talli]
are we going with XML or SGML?
22:31:02 [rbm]
I grabbed aD's dtd and it's just the DocBook 4.1.2 dtd
22:31:11 [talli]
cool
22:31:30 [talli]
you guys want to see a REALLY NASTY bboard thread?
22:31:36 [rbm]
talli: There's barely any difference in writing in .xml and in .sgml. The tags are the same. But in .xml you have a couple extra rules that were only advices in .sgml
22:31:41 [talli]
it's kinda funny, too
22:31:49 [rbm]
talli: sure
22:32:10 [talli]
http://www.arsdigita.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg%5fid=000jEu&topic%5fid=1535&topic=ACS%20Core%20%26%20CMS
22:32:10 [chump]
A: http://www.arsdigita.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg%5fid=000jEu&topic%5fid=1535&topic=ACS%20Core%20%26%20CMS from talli
22:32:21 [rbm]
talli: So I'd vote to continue in .xml since we already have a zillion of them. It's the easier route, and won't add any complexity.
22:32:32 [talli]
i think that's a perfect idea
22:33:04 [talli]
from what i read, docbook 5 will advance the XML version so that it is reasonably equivalent to the SGML version
22:33:20 [rbm]
I've been working on this thing fore like 5 hours.
22:33:32 [talli]
this post is basically the same thing over again, just a new guy who is trying out ACS-Java
22:33:41 [rbm]
* rbm reads
22:33:50 [talli]
but it's kind of funny to see people still banging their heads against the retards that still work at aD
22:34:29 [talli]
the usual suspects, Richard Li, Tracy Adams and Kevin Scaldeferri, all poke their heads in
22:34:33 [docwolf]
haha
22:34:34 [talli]
this one is for the ages, of course
22:34:35 [rbm]
heheh
22:38:46 [rbm]
talli: I'll have the roadmap for your (and Vinod's and anyone else) review tomorrow. I have to get some work and homework done now.
22:39:01 [rbm]
talli: Do you run Linux?
22:39:06 [rbm]
if so, what distro?
22:39:37 [talli]
i don't run linux right now because i can't get X to run on my laptop.
22:39:53 [rbm]
talli: Oh, that's right.
22:39:54 [talli]
i'm going to try and setup OSX on my old G3 and failing that will set up a desktop linux box
22:40:01 [rbm]
talli: Can you do me a favor?
22:40:20 [talli]
i also am planning on buying framemaker, an Adobe product that gives you a nice GUI for writing XML docs
22:40:27 [talli]
sure, lemme know what it is
22:40:46 [rbm]
We need to find out which RPM packages people need to install for xsltproc and docbook-xsl
22:41:39 [rbm]
Not docbook-xsl, docbook-xml
22:45:34 [talli]
ok, i'll look into it
22:45:45 [rbm]
talli: It looks like xsltproc is available from here: ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/stable/redhat/i386/libxml/
22:45:54 [rbm]
The URL for xsltproc is http://www.xmlsoft.org/
22:46:03 [talli]
is it reasonably easy to set up emacs to edit docbook DTDs?
22:46:25 [rbm]
http://distro.conectiva.com.br/projetos/46
22:46:25 [chump]
B: http://distro.conectiva.com.br/projetos/46 from rbm
22:46:25 [talli]
or rather docbook files?
22:46:48 [rbm]
talli: Yes. Just install the psgml package.
22:46:49 [talli]
whoa, very nice
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23:04:48 [markd2]
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23:06:27 [vinod]
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23:09:35 [rbm]
Vinod!
23:10:00 [vinod]
hey rbm!
23:10:14 [vinod]
haven't seen ya in a while - hope things are going well
23:10:23 [rbm]
vinod: Can you look at the log for the channel?
23:10:31 [rbm]
I was discussing some things with talli
23:10:37 [vinod]
sure - hold on a sec
23:12:10 [rbm]
synaptic indeed rocks.
23:12:28 [vinod]
cool! so i wasn't completely off when i was using xsltproc and chunks.xsl :-)
23:12:47 [rbm]
vinod: No. I actually followed your tip after struggling with jade for a couple hours.
23:13:01 [vinod]
yeah - i failed miserably with jade
23:13:28 [rbm]
I don't know what's the deal with all these tools, but they are awfully complicated and integrated.
23:13:52 [rbm]
The LDP Author Guide (HOWTO-HOWTO) is my saviour.
23:14:03 [vinod]
oh - i need to read that
23:14:13 [vinod]
i was working on the docbook book, but it's slow going
23:14:43 [rbm]
vinod: Good luck. I personally tried to go that route and never did. It's way too much work.
23:14:57 [rbm]
vinod: You don't need to read the book if you have some examples to look at and Emacs+psgml
23:14:58 [vinod]
yeah - i think you're right
23:15:22 [rbm]
C-c C-e is your friend in psgml :-)
23:15:31 [vinod]
don asked me to work on getting the alex logo and an openacs header at the top of each generated page
23:15:44 [rbm]
vinod: Oh. So was that you who did that?
23:15:45 [vinod]
psgml is cool :-)
23:15:58 [vinod]
i actually haven't done anything yet
23:16:05 [vinod]
is there a logo there already?
23:16:11 [rbm]
vinod: Maybe you can tell me this then... Where is it that the logo and the navigation stuff are defined? I can't find it anywhere.
23:16:24 [rbm]
vinod: I cvs update'd and Alex's logo is showing up.
23:16:45 [vinod]
hmmm - someone else must be doing that (i haven't cvs update'd in a while)
23:17:04 [rbm]
vinod: I found why is it that xsltproc generated files like ch01s01.html for the aD files.
23:17:20 [vinod]
cool - i was wonderng that! why?
23:17:53 [vinod]
cuz it breaks some internal links in the html
23:18:18 [rbm]
vinod: Because they were sloppy and didn't id'd the sections. If you put <sect1 id="a-section"> then it'll create a "a-section.html"
23:18:34 [vinod]
ahhh - i figured it would be something like that
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23:19:11 [rbm]
So we'll have to put names in those sections and appendices
23:19:18 [rbm]
hmm?
23:22:45 [vinod]
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23:22:58 [rbm]
vinod: So we'll have to put names in those sections and appendices
23:23:09 [vinod]
sorry - someone called me on the phone and my ppp hung up
23:23:16 [vinod]
rbm: makes sense
23:24:05 [rbm]
NOO! Don't pick up the ph@#$#%! NO CARRIER
23:24:15 [vinod]
haha
23:24:40 [rbm]
I've had to say that so many times :)
23:25:21 [vinod]
yeah - fortunately, i no longer have roommates, so i only need to say that when the schizophrenia gets particularly bad
23:29:12 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
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