IRC log of openacs on 2001-11-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:51 [hazmat]
bueller
00:03:54 [hazmat]
bueller
00:03:55 [hazmat]
bueller
00:03:59 [Psychephylax]
lol
00:05:00 [Psychephylax]
ok why is there a commercial in Japanese
00:05:12 [Psychephylax]
for Applied materials
00:05:15 [Psychephylax]
who the hell are them
00:08:13 [Spork]
Spork has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
00:08:23 [Spork]
Spork (proxy@ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs
00:08:27 [davb]
davb (dave@alb-66-24-206-3.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs
00:08:32 [Psychephylax]
wb
00:09:14 [davb]
hi.
00:09:25 [Psychephylax]
I love the Simpsons
00:13:21 [Psychephylax]
You know how much that trip to the alarm place cost me?
00:13:31 [davb]
An alarm and a leg?
00:13:39 [davb]
sorry :)
00:13:40 [Psychephylax]
pretty much
00:13:56 [Psychephylax]
108$
00:13:59 [davb]
ouch.
00:14:01 [Psychephylax]
For 2 car alarm remotes
00:14:27 [davb]
Thats not too bad.
00:14:29 [Psychephylax]
That place must make mad money
00:15:10 [Psychephylax]
They're one of the top places on Long Island to get car alarms, car stereos and those other "wow, I wish I could get that in my car" type things
00:16:27 [davb]
Cool. (or lame) depending on the stuff...
00:19:09 [Psychephylax]
nah, they got things like headrest mounted tvs and way overpriced navigation systems
00:20:16 [Psychephylax]
what's fondu?
00:21:36 [davb]
the food product?
00:24:54 [Psychephylax]
i guess
00:29:32 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-63-198-222.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
00:35:46 [Psychephylax]
dave, you still alive?
00:39:03 [hazmat]
welcome docwolf
00:39:37 [Psychephylax]
:/
00:40:07 [docwolf]
howdy!
00:40:31 [Psychephylax]
If anyone cares...
00:41:05 [Psychephylax]
call it irony or not, I'm taking American Airlines Flight 587 to Santo Domingo
00:41:14 [Psychephylax]
I hope mine actually lands though
00:44:44 [Psychephylax]
oh chit, everyone hide, here comes Vinod!
00:47:36 [docwolf]
is there still a flight 587? *gulp*
00:47:46 [Psychephylax]
yeah
00:47:47 [docwolf]
usually they'll change the flight number, out of respect...
00:47:55 [Psychephylax]
heh
00:48:00 [Psychephylax]
I guess I better write out a will
00:48:12 [Psychephylax]
All of my ACS code I give to vinod...
00:48:15 [Psychephylax]
lol
00:48:19 [docwolf]
heh
00:49:06 [docwolf]
i was flying yesterday and today, and I think the airlines are full of crap.
00:49:14 [Psychephylax]
?
00:49:16 [docwolf]
the flights i was taking were at least 75% full.
00:49:27 [docwolf]
yet, the airlines keep talking about their distress
00:51:02 [docwolf]
i think the better-run airlines will be fine
00:51:11 [Psychephylax]
yeah
00:57:50 [Psychephylax]
here's a question for you guys
00:58:03 [Psychephylax]
If say a judge places you under house arrest...how do you get money and food and stuff?
01:06:42 [davb]
planning on it?
01:07:12 [docwolf]
is kozmo still in business?
01:07:23 [davb]
docwolf: I heard they were using smaller planes, less flights due to the decrease in traffic. they wouldn't fly empty planes, but they would fly less planes...
01:08:08 [docwolf]
davb: in my flight going up to indiana, the plane was a 727, iirc. But coming back from atlanta today, it was a 767 packed to the gills...
01:09:32 [davb]
ok...that is the extent of my knowledge...:)
01:10:32 [docwolf]
actually, the airports seemed downright civilized.
01:10:40 [docwolf]
maybe 30% emptier than usual.
01:10:42 [docwolf]
and it was _nice-
01:14:16 [docwolf]
i guess some people are still really freaked out to fly.
01:15:17 [docwolf]
but like 120 people are killed on highways every day.
01:18:21 [Psychephylax]
So anyone know how people who're under house arrest survive?
01:18:29 [hazmat]
anyone know what this does upvar \#[template::adp_level] \
01:18:35 [docwolf]
i'm telling ya, kozmo
01:18:41 [Psychephylax]
kozmo?
01:18:46 [docwolf]
kozmo and webvan.
01:18:49 [Psychephylax]
?
01:18:51 [hazmat]
i've never seen that \# syntax
01:19:01 [Psychephylax]
it's an escape character afaik
01:19:04 [docwolf]
oh, wait... i guess they are both bankrupt
01:19:06 [davb]
Aha
01:20:06 [hazmat]
which means what in the context of upvar ?, it expects an integer afaik
01:20:24 [hazmat]
Psychephylax: grocery stores deliver for tthe disabled...
01:20:34 [Psychephylax]
yes I understand that much
01:20:37 [davb]
would be my guess.
01:20:43 [Psychephylax]
I mean you can always ask your neighbor or something
01:20:55 [Psychephylax]
but how does one get the money for groceries if you can't leave your house
01:21:01 [hazmat]
can you imagine explaining it to your neighbor...
01:21:03 [davb]
Actually I think the local stores still have web ordering/delivery.
01:21:06 [davb]
Direct deposit
01:21:15 [Psychephylax]
Direct Deposit?
01:21:23 [Psychephylax]
What good is that if you can't leave your house to "work"?
01:22:52 [davb]
upvar 1 == go up 1 level
01:22:59 [davb]
upvar #1 == go to level 1
01:23:28 [hazmat]
ah... that absolute referencing of stack frames, how delightful, thanks davb
01:23:48 [davb]
no problem. That is all I know :) understanding it would fry my brain
01:24:07 [davb]
Those have to be the scariest commands in Tcl
01:24:32 [hazmat]
their all over the place in templating and db stuff, afaics
01:25:51 [davb]
yeah, I just don't look
01:26:47 [hazmat]
see no, hear no, do no, unless you need to know...
01:28:16 [davb]
right now I am planning on writing my own intermedia-driver package to mirror the functionality of openfts-driver to work with search. Its much easier than trying to port the code. I am working backwards from the service contracts.
01:32:42 [hazmat]
probably a good idea.
01:33:03 [hazmat]
does if_now_rows work with db_multirow??
01:33:40 [hazmat]
* hazmat is in stupid mode...
01:34:06 [davb]
never heard of it...
01:34:17 [hazmat]
according to the source it should be allright but doing this results in an error db_multirow authors gdn_authors_select_all {
01:34:19 [hazmat]
select p.first_names, p.last_name, a.contact_info,
01:34:20 [hazmat]
pty.email, pty.url
01:34:22 [hazmat]
from gideon_authors a, persons p, parties pty
01:34:23 [hazmat]
* hazmat has said too much
02:01:44 [davb]
davb has changed the topic to: Free Web Toolkit http://openacs.org
02:03:02 [davb]
* davb looks more into starting a LUG
02:05:26 [davb]
Aha. All I really need to do is start passing out CDs of different distributions....
02:06:51 [Psychephylax]
lol
02:07:15 [Psychephylax]
You know what would be more useful?
02:07:20 [davb]
Well its a start, I was planning on piggybacking on the local general computer users group.
02:07:25 [davb]
What?
02:07:35 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:08:02 [davb]
That group already fixes up old PCs to distribute to needy causes. They should have a free os on them.
02:08:21 [Psychephylax]
If you actually teach people how to maintain their distributions, how perform daily Winderz-like tasks in *nix and what cool non-Winderz things you can do with Linux
02:08:27 [davb]
Psychephylax: its not just Linux, more a *NIX/*BSD/Free/Open Source kinda thing.
02:08:32 [davb]
Well yeah that too.
02:08:39 [Psychephylax]
i'm down with that
02:09:02 [davb]
BUt I figure there are nerds there, give em free CDs and they will install it. Next meeting tell em how to work it :)
02:09:16 [Psychephylax]
I already know how to install a BSD and a Linux
02:09:29 [Psychephylax]
problem is, I feel out of place using it
02:09:47 [davb]
as opposed to windows?
02:09:51 [Psychephylax]
yeah
02:09:59 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
02:10:19 [davb]
wow. I adapted pretty well. I love mutt for mail. way better than outlook.
02:10:26 [Psychephylax]
heh
02:10:42 [davb]
Plus 90% of my computer time is working on my web sites and OpenACS so I need to be in Linux for that.
02:10:44 [Psychephylax]
I tried mutt, can't use it yet
02:10:48 [Psychephylax]
I hate VI
02:10:52 [davb]
its takes a while.
02:10:55 [Psychephylax]
right
02:11:00 [davb]
I use Emacs (in windows too :)
02:11:19 [Psychephylax]
I am not developing though
02:11:25 [davb]
I have plenty of extra CDRs and a fast internet connection.
02:11:35 [davb]
Well then windows is cool, better for playing games.
02:11:41 [Psychephylax]
like doing stuff like Tcl, Perl...*nix is the way to go
02:12:39 [davb]
The only thing is, if my Linux crashes or breaks, I can fix it and learn something. If Windows crashes, I reboot and complain alot, but thats about all I can do...
02:12:51 [Psychephylax]
hehehee
02:13:16 [Psychephylax]
I can;t even update Mandrake
02:13:34 [davb]
Really? Well RedHat was icky. Debian is much nicer.
02:13:48 [Psychephylax]
I didn't like Red Hat
02:14:04 [Psychephylax]
I switched to FreeBSD and never looked back for a server environment
02:14:17 [Psychephylax]
But I'm looking for a desktop
02:14:33 [Psychephylax]
And FreeBSD lacks in a number of areas for a beginner
02:14:35 [davb]
Try debian :) or something with the new KDE
02:14:46 [Psychephylax]
I hate Gnome and KDE
02:15:09 [Psychephylax]
first things i remove from the install list :)
02:16:15 [davb]
Oh, then I highly recommend debian.
02:16:30 [davb]
install the base system and then put on whatver window manager you like( or none )
02:16:48 [Psychephylax]
That's how BSD is
02:17:32 [davb]
I installed from a boot floppy on my server and just installed the packages I needed to get it going, then added postgresql, etc...
02:18:01 [Psychephylax]
the thing with BSD is that they aren't "oh, let's blindly add this patch"
02:18:06 [davb]
I will try BSD next time, which one? Free or Open?
02:18:19 [Psychephylax]
Free is closer to a desktop
02:18:22 [davb]
Well debian has, stable, testing, unstable
02:18:40 [Psychephylax]
right
02:18:56 [davb]
Is OpenBSD the super secure one?
02:18:58 [Psychephylax]
BSD has : Release, Stable, Current
02:19:05 [Psychephylax]
Net is
02:19:05 [davb]
* davb always gets them confused.
02:19:09 [davb]
Aha.
02:19:11 [davb]
right.
02:19:26 [Psychephylax]
i think open is the really portable one
02:19:34 [Psychephylax]
hold oh
02:19:50 [Psychephylax]
PC Mag actually did an article on a non-MS OS
02:19:54 [davb]
ok.
02:19:58 [davb]
Wow, nifty.
02:20:09 [davb]
must be going out of business, have nothing to lose :)
02:20:26 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
02:21:05 [davb]
now I need an extra box to install it on.
02:21:31 [Psychephylax]
my bad
02:21:37 [Psychephylax]
you had it right
02:21:49 [Psychephylax]
open = most secure
02:21:57 [Psychephylax]
net = most portable
02:22:01 [davb]
I still wish for OS X. *NIX with a spiffy GUI, plus Photoshop
02:22:09 [davb]
Ok.
02:22:10 [davb]
thanks
02:23:19 [davb]
and OS X is some BSD right?
02:23:20 [Psychephylax]
FreeBSD kicks ass
02:23:23 [Psychephylax]
FreeBSD
02:23:28 [davb]
Cool.
02:23:38 [Psychephylax]
Even Windows borrowed from FreeBSD
02:23:53 [Psychephylax]
The whole TCP/IP stack out of 2000 I believe (line for line) is out of FreeBSD
02:24:59 [davb]
I think that was NT, I am pretty sure they wrote their own (or at least changes a few lines) for 2000
02:25:10 [Psychephylax]
the problem with FreeBSD is that it's not just "add a patch" and you're set
02:25:16 [Psychephylax]
They have to test it all before it gets added
02:25:33 [davb]
That is good, but bad.
02:25:37 [Psychephylax]
Which slows them down
02:25:42 [Psychephylax]
yeah, it's good but bad :(
02:25:54 [Psychephylax]
If they say it works...It works
02:26:09 [Psychephylax]
But that was "The thing to have 2 years ago" type deal
02:26:29 [davb]
That is why debian is cool. you can get the latest packages from unstable if you want to be on the bleeding edge.
02:26:37 [davb]
But debian is pretty good with security updates.
02:26:37 [Psychephylax]
Of course a SCSI drive 2 years ago is still a scsi drive
02:26:44 [Psychephylax]
Which is why BSD makes a great server
02:26:58 [Psychephylax]
You stick in a 2mb Trident card and you got video
02:27:17 [Psychephylax]
I doubt too many people play mp3s on their server..lol
02:28:03 [davb]
yeah I have a few of those 2M trident cards, in fact, in my server :)
02:28:25 [davb]
alot of the web hosts with postgresql use BSD
02:28:30 [Psychephylax]
The FreeBSD software system kicks ass
02:28:47 [Psychephylax]
I dunno if you know how ports work
02:29:06 [davb]
kinda...I will read up when I am ready.
02:29:12 [Psychephylax]
oh
02:29:13 [Psychephylax]
heh
02:29:29 [davb]
or you can tell me all the gory details if you want to type it :)
02:29:51 [Psychephylax]
Well, I'm not a pro, infact, I don't fully understand it but I believe it works like this:
02:30:21 [Psychephylax]
They have mirrors of the main server of course...and the main server stores all the latest packages as contributed by the developers
02:30:53 [Psychephylax]
As a developer
02:31:17 [Psychephylax]
You submit your latest source to the server
02:31:25 [Psychephylax]
You update the info and such
02:31:58 [Psychephylax]
I'm not sure if the FreeBSD team checks..but I think they do because they can block you from using ports to install insecure things
02:32:08 [Psychephylax]
Like Netscape Navigator 4.76
02:32:25 [Psychephylax]
As en user
02:32:39 [Psychephylax]
There is the /usr/ports directory
02:32:57 [Psychephylax]
And there are subcategories like /usr/ports/irc and /usr/ports/www
02:33:29 [Psychephylax]
you can upgrade the whole tree or parts of the tree using cvs and a few other ways
02:34:06 [davb]
aha, and you recompiled everything last time... :)
02:34:06 [Psychephylax]
Then when you're done upgrading
02:34:12 [Psychephylax]
no
02:34:14 [Psychephylax]
not everything
02:34:21 [Psychephylax]
that was different (I'll explain too)
02:34:37 [Psychephylax]
So then say you have gaim .45 installed
02:35:02 [davb]
ok, I have gaim .45 installed </wiseass>
02:35:06 [Psychephylax]
you can uninstall it by doing pkg_delete gaim
02:35:16 [Psychephylax]
hold on
02:35:17 [Psychephylax]
lol
02:35:22 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax ssh's into his server
02:35:55 [Psychephylax]
There's actually a mix of things
02:35:57 [Psychephylax]
with ports
02:36:12 [Psychephylax]
you change into the directory of the thing yo uwant installed
02:36:13 [Psychephylax]
like gaim
02:36:24 [Psychephylax]
Assume I don't know where gaim is :)
02:36:38 [Psychephylax]
nblyumbe@homer../home/nblyumbe>whereis gaim
02:36:51 [Psychephylax]
gaim: /usr/ports/net/gaim
02:36:59 [Psychephylax]
cd /usr/ports/net/gaim
02:37:03 [Psychephylax]
I'm in the dir
02:37:09 [Psychephylax]
make install
02:37:13 [Psychephylax]
that will install gaim :)
02:37:17 [davb]
nice
02:37:21 [Psychephylax]
make deinstall will umm...deinstall it? :P
02:37:37 [Psychephylax]
I think you can do make reinstall to reinstall
02:37:55 [Psychephylax]
The really cool part is the fact that say gaim depended on X
02:38:10 [davb]
ow, I am now a kitten jungle gym
02:38:13 [Psychephylax]
there's a file that stores all the dependencies for your thing
02:38:29 [davb]
hey, I like to keep my thing off the computer
02:38:37 [Psychephylax]
It's recursive
02:38:46 [davb]
cool.
02:38:48 [Psychephylax]
It will go get X..but X is dependent on some other thing
02:38:58 [Psychephylax]
so it will keep going down until every dependency is satisfied
02:39:05 [davb]
cool. just like APT
02:39:24 [Psychephylax]
of course it's not 100% idiot proof
02:39:31 [davb]
of course not.
02:39:39 [Psychephylax]
but it works a lot better than most things
02:39:51 [Psychephylax]
Of course, ports is not the only thing they got up their sleeves
02:39:55 [Psychephylax]
They also have "packages"
02:40:19 [Psychephylax]
pkg_info will show you all the packages you have installed (they usually match the ports stuff)
02:40:25 [Psychephylax]
xosview-1.7.3 A graphical performance meter
02:40:25 [Psychephylax]
xpm-3.4k The X Pixmap library
02:40:39 [Psychephylax]
Then, say I don't want xpm-3.4k anymore
02:40:47 [Psychephylax]
I can just pkg_delete xpm-3.4k
02:40:49 [Psychephylax]
and it's gone
02:41:04 [Psychephylax]
Then I can pkg_add a newer version or compile it from ports :)
02:41:20 [Psychephylax]
oh, make clean will clean the ports stuff for you (the working dir that is)
02:41:28 [hazmat]
make world
02:41:32 [Psychephylax]
heh
02:41:40 [davb]
hazmat: you BSD?
02:41:44 [Psychephylax]
make wold has been split up by the BSD people ;)
02:42:03 [Psychephylax]
You can use cvs to get the new source (I usually do -stable)
02:42:11 [hazmat]
i came, i saw, i left...
02:42:28 [hazmat]
strictly linux now, although i think bsd is a nice platform..
02:43:02 [davb]
I will probbaly stick with Linux too. It works. But if I had an extra box around I would try it.
02:43:09 [Psychephylax]
Then you just do: make buildworld (compile the world), make installworld (install the world), then make buildkernel KERNCONF=YOURCONF will compile the custom kernel and you can install it by make installkernel KERNCONF=YOURCONF
02:43:41 [Psychephylax]
then you just run mergemaster to get your /etc thing in sync with the new things and you're all set
02:43:57 [davb]
Very interesting. I wonder if the debian guys got their ideas from BSD. its very similar.
02:44:14 [davb]
Although I always compile my own kernels by hand.
02:44:31 [Psychephylax]
define by hand
02:44:34 [davb]
well not quite by hand, adding up all those 1s and 0s takes too long :)
02:44:38 [davb]
make menuconfig
02:44:40 [davb]
make dep
02:44:45 [davb]
make bzImage
02:44:46 [davb]
etc...
02:44:48 [Psychephylax]
oh
02:44:54 [davb]
then I install it into the GRUB menu.
02:45:07 [davb]
GRUB is way cool.
02:45:19 [Psychephylax]
i use lilo
02:45:34 [Psychephylax]
heh
02:45:41 [Psychephylax]
did i mention BSD has Linux emulation
02:45:44 [davb]
I did, but GRUB was automagically intsalled by Progeny Debian and it was easier to learn how to use it than replace it :)
02:45:58 [Psychephylax]
it installs a number of Linux things for running Linux programs
02:46:06 [davb]
also Spiffy, although a wise guy might say, Linux doesn't need no stinking BSD emulation...:)
02:46:18 [davb]
or maybe it has it. I am no expert.
02:46:47 [Psychephylax]
it might not have it but I know for a fact it has BSD style drive number/lettering
02:46:54 [Psychephylax]
So it knows how to access BSD partitions =)
02:47:17 [davb]
Well they want to play well with others :)
02:47:25 [Psychephylax]
The new altima's look damn hot
02:47:41 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.4 [Mozilla rv:0.9.4/20010913]")
02:47:43 [davb]
Ok, if you say so. I must depart. Thanks for the info!
02:47:47 [Psychephylax]
BSD uses Linux emulation for things like Flash plugins for your browser
02:48:00 [Psychephylax]
BSD is the superior OS ;)
02:48:06 [Psychephylax]
Did you know Yahoo started on FreeBSD?
02:48:18 [Psychephylax]
on a Pentium 100 never the less
02:48:21 [davb]
yes I think so.
02:48:23 [davb]
heh
02:48:27 [davb]
I have one of those :)
02:48:34 [Psychephylax]
I don't
02:48:41 [Psychephylax]
I got a Pentium 200 running FreeBSD 4.3
02:48:47 [Psychephylax]
I suppose I can start Yahoo!
02:48:48 [Psychephylax]
lol
02:48:55 [davb]
heh. bye
02:48:58 [davb]
davb has quit ()
02:48:59 [Psychephylax]
laters
02:52:17 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd@r-41.34.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
02:57:33 [til]
til has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
03:01:19 [Psychephylax]
Oh chit, everyone hide it's Mark
03:01:26 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax hides behind loggy
03:04:45 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@209-122-231-7.s1277.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
03:04:54 [Psychephylax]
Oh chit, everyone hide it's vinod!
03:04:56 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax hides behind loggy
03:05:23 [markd2]
Vinod! huzzah
03:05:43 [vinod]
howdy!
03:05:46 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax peeks out and throws a cookie to distract mark
03:05:47 [vinod]
* vinod sees all
03:06:28 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax points out the irony
03:06:42 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is taking an American Airlines Flight 587 to Santo Domingo on the 17th
03:10:24 [markd2]
whoa
03:10:38 [Psychephylax]
yup
03:10:43 [Psychephylax]
I bet ya it was an Airbus too
03:11:05 [markd2]
arrrrgh Vinod, I *told* you it was the wrong plane!
03:11:11 [markd2]
oops, that should have been a /msg. sorry
03:11:14 [Psychephylax]
heh
03:17:16 [Psychephylax]
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03:22:16 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-63-198-222.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
03:22:41 [docwolf]
i almost have linux right where i want it..... muahahaha.
03:22:51 [markd2]
woo hoo!
03:23:13 [docwolf]
are there any experts who can help me with my network dilemma?
03:24:11 [docwolf]
when linux starts up, the network looks for a DHCP server, and it takes forever to time out when it can't find one. Where is this setting kept?
03:24:34 [docwolf]
it's getting really annoying waiting 20 hours for the machine to continue booting when i'm not connected to the net..
03:26:06 [vinod]
docwolf: on debian, it's in /etc/network/interfaces - not sure for other distros
03:26:19 [docwolf]
thanks vinod
03:26:36 [docwolf]
i'm using mandrake. If these developers are clever, they won't have moved it.
03:27:10 [docwolf]
oops. they are idiots. mandrake doesn't even have an /etc/network directory.
03:29:34 [docwolf]
they must take perverse pleasure in moving files all over the place.
03:30:39 [vinod]
how bout /etc/sysconfig/network ?
03:31:08 [docwolf]
ahh, yes!
03:31:34 [vinod]
it might be debian that is weird, cuz that's where it is in redhat, too
03:31:38 [docwolf]
vinod always comes through
03:31:41 [docwolf]
:-)
03:31:43 [vinod]
haha
03:32:09 [docwolf]
interesting. it says NETWORKING=yes, but nothing about a timeout interval.
03:32:39 [docwolf]
this directory is a treasure-trove of scary files that should not be tampered with.
03:35:01 [markd2]
* markd2 suggests editing them all to see what happens
03:35:22 [vinod]
is docwolf paying markd2 by the hour?
03:36:07 [docwolf]
I'm paying his firm.... Criminally Insane System Administration, LLC.
03:38:01 [docwolf]
actually, my big problem with linux now is... i've finally gotten my wireless card working... but have to enter the parameters in manually with iwconfig. I can't get the parameters to stick in the PCMCIA config files. it is annoying.
03:39:07 [vinod]
have you looked at http://kurup.com/wireless.phtml
03:39:28 [vinod]
a little out of date, and not quite specific to your platform
03:40:43 [docwolf]
but close enough!
03:40:59 [docwolf]
i've been through all these files & I can't figure out why it doesn't like what i'm doing. it's odd.
03:41:21 [docwolf]
jeez.. you're running linux on a mac? :-)
03:41:37 [vinod]
yup - crazy, huh?
03:42:00 [docwolf]
hehe. NUTS!
03:42:06 [vinod]
mac os9 is too slow on a 266 mhz processor :-)
03:46:29 [docwolf]
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03:54:08 [markd2]
heh. I use os9 on a 266 mhz processor :-)
03:54:23 [vinod]
well, i just must be a lot faster than you ;-)
03:54:24 [markd2]
now, imagine trying to us X on a 266 mhz processor
03:54:32 [markd2]
your mind is like lightening
03:54:35 [vinod]
haha
03:54:42 [markd2]
actually, I do have X on a 266 - my desktop G3
03:54:48 [vinod]
really?
03:54:50 [markd2]
it's moved up from "glacial" to "majestic"
03:54:52 [vinod]
that must be molasses
03:56:09 [markd2]
I'm beat. I'm going to sleep
03:56:11 [markd2]
catch folks tomorrey
03:56:16 [vinod]
seeya markd2
03:56:29 [markd2]
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04:31:29 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-63-198-222.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
04:31:54 [docwolf]
linux is needlessly complex.
04:35:24 [vinod]
oh no - we have an unbeliever :-)
04:47:59 [docwolf]
haha
04:48:09 [docwolf]
the complexity would be OK, if I could easily ignore it.
04:48:38 [docwolf]
but really, setting up a wireless network card should mean shoving it in the damn slot & getting online immediately.
04:48:58 [docwolf]
it's not like i was using some funky north korean brand, or something... This was a lucent wavelan card.
04:52:51 [vinod]
:-) you're right, of course
04:54:50 [vinod]
the complexity should be abstracted, but that would mean the programmers need to think like users :-)
04:55:09 [vinod]
did you get it working?
05:04:29 [docwolf]
got it working for now --
05:04:43 [docwolf]
i made a little bash script that puts the right settings in (a total cop-out :-) )
05:05:51 [vinod]
ouch - that is weird. the settings wouldn't stay in the .opts files?
05:06:06 [docwolf]
nope. really, really weird stuff
05:06:27 [docwolf]
and, in /var/log/messages, it was complaining that the parameters being passed to the wavelan module were obsolete
05:06:42 [docwolf]
yet, i couldn't find a place where those parameters were actually being read from.
05:08:43 [vinod]
i once had a problem that it was registering my card as the wrong type. i had to comment out some lines in /etc/pcmcia/config so that it wouldn't see that type of card and would only see the card i wanted it to
05:08:49 [vinod]
(did that make any sense?)
05:08:54 [docwolf]
yep. perfect. :-)
05:08:59 [docwolf]
i haven't tried that yet.
05:09:01 [docwolf]
i'm too tired.
05:09:09 [vinod]
haha - i know the feeling
05:09:18 [vinod]
i've been trying all day to get my serial port working
05:09:23 [vinod]
so i can sync my palm in linux
05:09:26 [vinod]
no luck yet
05:09:35 [docwolf]
ugh
05:09:48 [docwolf]
this basic stuff should not be hard.
05:09:50 [docwolf]
it's really sad.
05:10:58 [vinod]
yeah - but i like the idea that i should be able to figure it out with enough research, whereas on the mac side, i can only do what the docs say to do
05:11:19 [vinod]
but, i definitely agree that it shouldn't be this hard
05:15:06 [vinod]
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[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
07:13:27 [hazmat]
hello
09:19:02 [hazmat]
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11:45:51 [ola]
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12:01:42 [markd2]
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12:02:21 [ola]
morning markd2
12:04:20 [markd2]
good afternoon ola
12:04:36 [markd2]
how's life?
12:04:45 [ola]
good
12:04:51 [ola]
and you?
12:05:45 [markd2]
doing well
12:06:12 [markd2]
we had a big site migration last night
12:06:21 [markd2]
so I'm pretty tired
12:11:09 [ola]
you have any idea what perm "s" means? :
12:11:13 [ola]
drwxr-sr-x 2 postgres web 4096 Nov 14 13:41 pgsql
12:18:25 [ola]
hmm... I created the dir from a remote box over ssh.
12:22:16 [ola]
oh well. Mark went back to sleep.
12:25:10 [markd2]
oops, sorry
12:25:16 [markd2]
the 's' is setgid or setuid
12:25:29 [markd2]
in your case, it's setguid (set group)
12:25:55 [markd2]
the program will run as the group 'web', no matter what group the person running the program is in
12:30:12 [ola]
aha, but I don't understand why it's not "x". is this controlled by postgresql?
12:33:00 [ola]
...because I issued:
12:33:03 [ola]
[root@hal local]# mkdir /usr/local/pgsql
12:33:13 [ola]
[root@hal local]# chown postgres.web /usr/local/pgsql
12:34:09 [markd2]
the x is implied
12:34:19 [markd2]
ah
12:34:32 [markd2]
you can't have 's' without 'x', so there no need to show 'x'
12:34:36 [markd2]
and I notice now it's a directory
12:34:46 [markd2]
the setgid bit works in a similar situation there too
12:35:00 [markd2]
when you create a file there, it'll ahve the same group as the group of the directory
12:35:04 [markd2]
(I think)
12:37:30 [ola]
Ok, thanks. so it's nothing bad, and not due to me connecting remotely, I take it...:-)
12:40:43 [ola]
Mark, you play some instrument in a band, right?
12:41:20 [markd2]
yep
12:41:26 [markd2]
trombone and bassoon
12:41:42 [ola]
cool!
12:42:15 [ola]
I played trumpet for about a year when I was a kid.
12:43:10 [ola]
a Bach Mercedes I think it was. I rented it for a year and then quit:-)
12:45:20 [ola]
Do you know the "Dirty Dozen Brass Band"?
12:45:26 [ola]
I like them.
12:48:13 [markd2]
I'm not familiar with them
12:51:41 [ola]
I quit cuz my front teeth sort of got loose. (besides, I didn't possesse any talent)
13:01:40 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
13:04:32 [markd2]
sounds like a pretty good set of reasons :-)
13:06:25 [ola]
heh
13:08:50 [ola]
* ola wonders if it's a good idea (or even doable) to start PG/Oracle via daemontools
13:09:41 [markd2]
I have no idea
13:10:47 [ola]
ok.
13:17:00 [markd2]
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13:21:24 [Spork]
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13:27:58 [Spork]
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13:55:44 [davb]
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14:03:09 [davb]
ola: pg has never stopped for me. I just use the startup scripts in etc/rc*.d
14:03:49 [davb]
I am not sure if daemontools can run the shutdown scripts... that would be very important.
14:04:23 [davb]
WOW!
14:04:24 [davb]
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/11/14/1330241.shtml
14:04:24 [chump]
A: http://slashdot.org/articles/01/11/14/1330241.shtml from davb
14:04:36 [davb]
A:|Sir-tech Canada releases Wizardy 8
14:04:37 [ola]
hi davb.
14:04:38 [chump]
titled item A
14:04:46 [davb]
where's docwolf?
14:04:48 [davb]
:)
14:04:58 [ola]
dunno
14:06:26 [davb]
He was mentioning the wonders of Wizardry a while back.
14:07:04 [davb]
argh. someone put grey paper in the color printer.
14:07:23 [ola]
../etc/rc.d/* works fine. I just want to run everyting by daemontools it possible..
14:07:54 [ola]
deamontools rocks!
14:08:21 [ola]
s/deamontools/daemontools
14:08:54 [davb]
that is true.
14:09:18 [davb]
I probably save a couple hours a week starting and stopping AOLserver when I am developing :)
14:09:27 [ola]
haha
14:10:07 [davb]
also is very nice for tinydns, etc...
14:10:30 [ola]
dave, have you run into difficulties creating pltcl lately?
14:12:30 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-63-198-222.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
14:12:41 [ola]
hi docwolf
14:12:48 [docwolf]
howdy!
14:13:31 [davb]
nope.
14:13:40 [davb]
its on my template databse, so it just goes in.
14:13:41 [davb]
A:
14:13:41 [chump]
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/11/14/1330241.shtml
14:13:42 [chump]
Sir-tech Canada releases Wizardy 8
14:15:44 [docwolf]
excellent!! I didn't even know sirtech was still around.
14:15:59 [docwolf]
"will code RPGs for dog food"
14:16:00 [Spork]
Hmmm
14:17:29 [ola]
Hmmm Hmmm
14:18:20 [Spork]
4 hour flight
14:18:21 [Spork]
cool
14:19:19 [Spork]
Nmap run completed -- 256 IP addresses (1 host up) scanned in 179 seconds
14:19:22 [Spork]
that's really odd
14:28:58 [ola]
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14:31:44 [ola]
ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs
14:33:34 [davb]
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2824251,00.html
14:33:36 [chump]
B: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2824251,00.html from davb
14:33:46 [davb]
B:|Bug secrecy vs. full disclosure
14:33:47 [chump]
titled item B
14:34:01 [davb]
B: Excellent essay on why full-disclosure works and why we need it
14:34:01 [chump]
commented item B
14:53:57 [davb]
http://www.emulators.com/pentium4.htm
14:53:58 [chump]
C: http://www.emulators.com/pentium4.htm from davb
14:54:05 [davb]
C:|Pentium 4: In Depth
14:54:05 [chump]
titled item C
14:55:03 [davb]
C: "Intel could very likely release a 1.5 GHz Pentium III tomorrow if they wanted to and completely catch up to AMD's Athlon XP and outperform the Pentium 4 at the same time. "
14:55:03 [chump]
commented item C
15:00:38 [davb]
argh! network solutions STILL did not update my DNS stuff.
15:00:43 [ola]
would "build stage" be "make" or "make install"?
15:01:15 [davb]
make i would guess.
15:01:54 [ola]
thanks!
15:02:25 [davb]
np
15:05:54 [davb]
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast08nov_1.htm
15:05:55 [chump]
D: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast08nov_1.htm from davb
15:06:04 [davb]
D:|Leonids Metor Storm Nov 18
15:06:04 [chump]
titled item D
15:06:43 [davb]
D: Sunday Morning 4-6am in New York 1-3am in LA
15:06:43 [chump]
commented item D
15:06:51 [Spork]
heh
15:07:02 [Spork]
I keep forgetting to log out
15:22:17 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
15:26:32 [markd2]
markd2 (markd@r-41.36.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
15:27:50 [davb]
A:
15:27:51 [chump]
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/11/14/1330241.shtml
15:27:52 [chump]
Sir-tech Canada releases Wizardy 8
15:28:40 [Spork]
F!
15:28:42 [Spork]
oh wait
15:28:49 [Spork]
I'm getting a bit excited about my grade
15:35:52 [markd2]
when do you find out?
15:36:34 [Spork]
soon
15:37:09 [Spork]
So I went to the car alarm place
15:37:18 [Spork]
Or were you here for that story?
15:38:30 [markd2]
I have not heard the car alarm story
15:39:23 [Spork]
Oh
15:39:36 [Spork]
yes, my car remote for the alarm has been misfunctioning
15:39:45 [Spork]
I had to smack it against something to get it to work
15:39:58 [Spork]
So I went down to the car alarm place to get it taken care of
15:40:08 [Spork]
Try to guess how much it cost me to get 2 remotes
15:40:40 [davb]
Spork: did you change the batteries? :)
15:40:53 [Spork]
the batteries were fine as far as I know
15:40:59 [Spork]
it worked most of the time
15:41:07 [Spork]
but sometimes it just wouldn't work until I smack it
15:41:13 [Spork]
like a lose wire type thing
15:45:12 [davb]
Wizardry 8 looks like the only new RPG coming out before next spring.
15:45:32 [Spork]
anyone here have a palmpiloty type thing
15:45:47 [davb]
I have a pad of paper and a pencil, does that count?
15:45:52 [Spork]
no :)
15:46:18 [ola]
I have a palm V I never use
15:46:26 [Spork]
how come?
15:46:42 [ola]
it's too big
15:47:06 [markd2]
lemme guess, it cost $30?
15:47:17 [Spork]
Nah, the V i think is expensive
15:47:20 [Spork]
like 350?
15:48:27 [ola]
I bought it for like $250
15:48:30 [Spork]
ah
15:48:34 [Spork]
is it color?
15:49:04 [ola]
nah
15:49:19 [davb]
Spork: looking for one?
15:49:25 [Spork]
considering
15:49:51 [markd2]
* markd2 waits for the punchline of the car remote story
15:49:57 [Spork]
oh
15:49:57 [davb]
Handspring has a new phone/pda thingy that is cool, but $450
15:50:06 [Spork]
well, you never guessed how much i spent
15:53:59 [Spork]
* Spork waits for mark to count
15:56:30 [Spork]
Dave, why, you got a palm you're looking to get rid of?
15:56:36 [markd2]
markd2: [10:51] lemme guess, it cost $30?
15:56:43 [markd2]
10 minutes ago :-)
15:57:21 [davb]
Spork: nope.
15:57:32 [Spork]
hmm http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=285256&tabtype=rb
15:57:35 [Spork]
no, it cost 50
15:57:38 [Spork]
PER REMOTE
15:58:43 [markd2]
ooofa
15:59:05 [davb]
thats a good deal.
15:59:20 [Spork]
The remotes?
15:59:24 [Spork]
Dave, are you instane?!
15:59:32 [Spork]
My car alarm was 550
15:59:40 [Spork]
remotes are like 1/5th of that?
16:01:57 [davb]
no, the visor :)
16:02:08 [Spork]
oh
16:02:09 [Spork]
hehe
16:02:20 [davb]
Anyway I tell you if it was a remote frm the manufacturer of your car it would be twice as much.
16:02:30 [Spork]
heh
16:02:33 [Spork]
probably
16:02:46 [Spork]
question
16:02:51 [Spork]
If this is my ns_log output
16:02:54 [Spork]
Your var is 1.3.6.1.2.1.17.4.3.1.1.0.224.111.1.84.178 {OCTET STRING} {00 E0 6F 01 54 B2 }
16:03:15 [Spork]
does that mean that 00 E0 6F... is in lindex [lindex $var 0] 2]
16:03:16 [Spork]
?
16:03:50 [markd2]
looks like it
16:04:02 [Spork]
well, it's not
16:04:04 [Spork]
ns_log Notice "Your var is $var"
16:04:04 [Spork]
set mac [lindex [lindex $var 0] 2]
16:04:04 [Spork]
ns_log Notice "Your mac is $mac"
16:04:10 [Spork]
$mac is empty
16:06:28 [davb]
try just [lindex $var 2] if there is whitespace in a list element enclose it in {}
16:06:51 [Spork]
aha
16:06:52 [Spork]
right
16:06:55 [Spork]
thats' what I did
16:06:56 [markd2]
your var isn'ta list
16:06:57 [Spork]
and it worked
16:07:32 [Spork]
D'oh those PDA's are out of stock
16:07:37 [Spork]
at the local CompUSA
16:07:50 [Spork]
Anyone use one?
16:08:01 [Spork]
I don't know if it's worth getting one or not
16:10:33 [Spork]
and is it better to get a Palm or some other brand
16:12:27 [davb]
Good question. The visor runs Palm OS. Sony also sells Palm OS devices.
16:19:57 [Spork]
right
16:20:09 [Spork]
is it better to stick with something that runs PalmOS and how do they compare?
16:21:34 [davb]
no clue. PalmOS is supposed to be easiest to use. Or you can get one with Linux or WinCE (or whatever they call it this week)
16:22:10 [Spork]
Linux? :)
16:22:22 [Spork]
I can be a real geek then!
16:22:24 [Spork]
woohooo
16:22:43 [markd2]
the ipaq can run linux
16:23:56 [davb]
The ipaq is cooooool
16:23:58 [Spork]
Well, that's a distinction
16:24:05 [Spork]
Palm, PocketPC
16:24:07 [Spork]
not the same thing
16:24:27 [davb]
do you want to play music and stuff?
16:26:01 [Spork]
I don't know
16:26:29 [davb]
heh
16:27:33 [Spork]
any of you guys ever had to remove whitepsace from inside a string?
16:27:43 [markd2]
not recently
16:27:51 [markd2]
what's your task?
16:28:00 [Spork]
to remove whitespaces from inside a string
16:28:01 [Spork]
lol
16:28:07 [markd2]
:-P
16:28:13 [Spork]
and decide if a Palm Pilot is for me
16:28:16 [Spork]
I always forget things
16:28:25 [Spork]
and lose the pieces of paper I have
16:28:32 [Spork]
I have an organizer
16:28:38 [Spork]
but it requires typing
16:28:56 [davb]
Aha.
16:29:17 [davb]
all the whitespaces? or just some?
16:30:15 [Spork]
all
16:30:30 [markd2]
so to turn "give me cookies" to "givemecookies" ?
16:30:48 [Spork]
given a string 00 E0 6F 01 54 B2 I want back 00E06F0154B2
16:30:49 [Spork]
oh hey
16:30:52 [Spork]
I got a better idea
16:30:53 [Spork]
lol
16:30:53 [markd2]
maybe set blah [join [split $string] ""]
16:31:03 [Spork]
maybe I can use replace
16:31:16 [Spork]
excellent
16:31:25 [adler]
adler (~adler@dsl027-131-050.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #openacs
16:32:08 [Spork]
the program already handles 00:E0:6F:01:54:B2
16:32:30 [hazmat]
hazmat (~chatzilla@66.123.57.58) has joined #openacs
16:32:42 [davb]
adler: checkout these cases: http://www.ecsusa.com/systems.cfm
16:32:50 [davb]
and http://www.ecs.com.tw/products/products.htm
16:33:53 [hazmat]
those are pretty
16:34:19 [davb]
yes, very cool.
16:35:41 [Spork]
hmmmm
16:36:09 [Spork]
it doesn't make sense to me
16:36:27 [Spork]
how do I tell it "space"
16:36:41 [markd2]
" "
16:37:01 [Spork]
ok
16:37:07 [Spork]
and will it remove all occurences or just some?
16:38:18 [Spork]
string replace $mac " " :
16:38:22 [Spork]
somehow that does not seem right
16:38:26 [davb]
try it in tclsh
16:38:34 [Spork]
i always forget about that lol
16:40:41 [markd2]
will you have to worry about tabs?
16:40:50 [Spork]
nope just blank spaces
16:41:12 [Spork]
what's ?newstring?
16:41:18 [Spork]
how do specify it
16:41:54 [markd2]
that means it's an optional parameter
16:41:56 [markd2]
just have a string there
16:41:59 [markd2]
or a variable
16:42:04 [markd2]
whatever makes you happy
16:43:21 [davb]
?newstring? will replace the removed chars
16:43:26 [adler]
davb : those look interesting for set-top or portable desktop style peecees
16:43:39 [adler]
but did you find a price?
16:44:16 [adler]
this conversations is too on-topic, anyways
16:44:21 [Spork]
errr
16:44:25 [Spork]
that doesn't work right
16:44:40 [davb]
adler: nope. gotta contact a distributor like ASI
16:45:02 [davb]
my brother in law is a distributor for ASI so I might be able to find out if I can get their part #
16:45:26 [davb]
you need a special motherboard which I think they also sell.
16:46:14 [davb]
just need an LCD monitor <$500 for a 14 incher
16:46:44 [Spork]
Well, it kind of works
16:46:46 [davb]
Spork: try something like this: <markd2> maybe set blah [join [split $string] ""]
16:47:22 [Spork]
that works
16:48:02 [markd2]
those basic list operations are surprisingly powerful
16:48:16 [Spork]
heh
16:48:20 [davb]
yes they are in several places in ACS
16:48:26 [Spork]
I should have known this
16:48:29 [davb]
especially manipulating file paths.
16:48:37 [Spork]
I had to do this with lists in SML of New Jersey
16:48:48 [Spork]
mmmmm
16:48:51 [Spork]
meta languages
16:48:52 [adler]
davb: the inote pc take Flex-ATX
16:48:59 [markd2]
* markd2 never metadata he didn't like
16:49:09 [Spork]
rofl
16:49:17 [Spork]
I love your sense of humor Mark
16:49:20 [adler]
haha
16:51:09 [adler]
adler has quit ("it hurts")
16:51:21 [Spork]
so you guys thing that palm was a good buy?
16:52:12 [markd2]
dunno
16:58:49 [Spork]
Well, it seems to be modular
16:59:05 [Spork]
so I can actually get the music thing if I have the urge
16:59:16 [Spork]
But how much stuff can you fit into an 8 mb visor lol
17:00:56 [davb]
http://www.ez-bookpc.com/
17:00:57 [chump]
E: http://www.ez-bookpc.com/ from davb
17:01:04 [Spork]
?
17:01:12 [davb]
E:| Actually selling BookPC $189
17:01:13 [chump]
titled item E
17:01:58 [davb]
E: $469 with 800mhz CPU and 128MB Ram (no OS)
17:01:59 [chump]
commented item E
17:03:06 [davb]
http://www.directron.com/slim.html
17:03:07 [chump]
F: http://www.directron.com/slim.html from davb
17:03:18 [davb]
F:|Wide selection of small cases
17:03:18 [chump]
titled item F
17:03:59 [davb]
F: ok, not that wide...
17:03:59 [chump]
commented item F
17:22:10 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@207.172.216.151) has joined #openacs
17:22:37 [davb]
Howdy vinod!
17:22:58 [vinod]
hey davb!
17:23:02 [markd2]
yo
17:23:30 [vinod]
yo yo yo
17:25:33 [Spork]
hi
17:34:34 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
17:35:35 [Spork]
Question
17:35:47 [Spork]
Is it possible to display stuff as it's being processed?
17:36:20 [Spork]
What I mean by this is: the queries to the router are done first and a table is generated (now, this can get displayed while the other things finish) then the modem table then the pings
17:36:49 [Spork]
My understanding of this is that display logic is deferred until the tcl is actually complete, is there an override flag?
17:40:05 [markd2]
not sure how you do it in template-land
17:40:15 [markd2]
in your tcl page, you can do "ReturnHeaders", and then ns_write your output
17:40:18 [markd2]
and that'll strea
17:40:20 [markd2]
er, stream
17:40:22 [Spork]
oh
17:40:42 [markd2]
http://badgertronics.com/blog/whole-damn-thing.tcl uses that technique
17:40:43 [chump]
G: http://badgertronics.com/blog/whole-damn-thing.tcl from markd2
17:41:07 [markd2]
g: markd's complete weblog, showing streaming iof results in aolserver
17:41:16 [markd2]
G| markd's complete weblog, showing streaming iof results in aolserver
17:41:25 [markd2]
G: markd's complete weblog, showing streaming iof results in aolserver
17:41:26 [chump]
commented item G
17:44:49 [vinod]
G: get deep inside the mind of a programming genius :-)
17:44:50 [chump]
commented item G
17:46:01 [markd2]
heh
17:46:06 [markd2]
and my mind too
17:46:43 [vinod]
:-)
17:47:55 [davb]
Check out the search package for postgresql.
17:48:09 [davb]
You are not supposed to use ns_write with templates, but it won't kill anyone.
17:48:39 [Spork]
bbl
17:48:42 [Spork]
going to get lunch
17:49:31 [markd2]
wow. folks talking about openacs in #java
17:50:51 [ola]
what are they saying?
17:55:05 [markd2]
bitPoet: [12:53] there's always ACS
17:55:05 [markd2]
Shayde: [12:53] ACS is dead dead dead.
17:55:05 [markd2]
itamar: [12:53] there's OpenACS
17:55:05 [markd2]
itamar: [12:53] I should learn JSP and OpenACS someday
17:55:28 [vinod]
rock on itamar!
17:55:35 [vinod]
except for the JSP part
17:56:47 [ola]
heh
17:58:56 [vinod]
woohoo - i got slashdot mod points today!
17:59:22 [vinod]
* vinod feels power rush
18:02:49 [markd2]
mod up some Natalie Portman posts
18:04:33 [vinod]
wow, she posts on slashdot?
18:06:27 [docwolf]
docwolf (~docwolf@adsl-63-198-222.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #openacs
18:06:49 [markd2]
yeah!
18:06:56 [markd2]
she posts under the name "mister stinkyfingers"
18:25:40 [hazmat]
hazmat (~chatzilla@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
18:26:38 [hazmat]
i'm trying to install graphviz for the workflow package but i can't find the required font libraries as the link from the documentation is dead, does anyone know where the webfonts package can be found?
18:29:21 [markd2]
markd2 has quit ("Bork")
18:34:23 [hazmat]
http://www.gunfleet.com/linux_links/webfonts.htm
18:34:23 [chump]
H: http://www.gunfleet.com/linux_links/webfonts.htm from hazmat
18:34:39 [hazmat]
H: fonts for graphviz
18:34:39 [chump]
commented item H
18:35:04 [davb]
thanks
18:36:10 [hazmat]
np
18:40:34 [bartt]
bartt (~chatzilla@dsl-64-34-176-81.telocity.com) has joined #openacs
18:42:41 [k2pts]
k2pts (~nkd@213.149.168.174) has joined #openacs
18:44:38 [til]
til (tils@port-212-202-128-208.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs
18:47:27 [vinod]
vinod has left #openacs
18:51:34 [ola]
ola has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
18:51:35 [ola]
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18:54:03 [hazmat]
hi k2pts
18:54:55 [docwolf]
hazmat: are those fonts already included with newer distributions?
18:55:04 [hazmat]
i dunno
18:57:02 [davb]
I didn;t have to install anything special. There isn't a seperate debian package for them.
18:57:38 [k2pts]
hi hazmat
18:57:58 [hazmat]
well its quite possible you already have them installed... esp. if you have xfree4 or xfst
19:00:12 [davb]
yes I have all that stuff, so its probably in there :)
19:00:46 [docwolf]
the only distro i've ever seen really solve the "font problem" out of the box was Corel
19:01:03 [docwolf]
my guess is that they had a bunch of fonts that they made in-house that they could then use in the distro.
19:01:14 [docwolf]
(they are the artistic types, after all ;-) )
19:01:56 [hazmat]
* hazmat takes great pleasure in keeping his suse box up to date by compiling everything from source ;)
19:10:14 [Spork]
gaaah
19:11:24 [davb]
http://www.robohouse.com/myrobot/
19:11:24 [chump]
I: http://www.robohouse.com/myrobot/ from davb
19:11:38 [davb]
I:|What Robot Are You Really?
19:11:39 [chump]
titled item I
19:18:35 [Spork]
yes!
19:19:30 [davb]
?
19:19:32 [davb]
http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/speed.html
19:19:32 [chump]
J: http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/speed.html from davb
19:19:48 [davb]
J:|The Speed of Information Architecture
19:19:49 [chump]
titled item J
19:20:01 [davb]
J: great info on developing the category hierarchy for a web site
19:20:01 [chump]
commented item J
19:20:32 [davb]
J: more on faceted categories
19:20:32 [chump]
commented item J
19:21:42 [davb]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SemanticsColumn
19:21:42 [chump]
K: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SemanticsColumn from davb
19:21:48 [davb]
K:|SemanticColumn
19:21:49 [chump]
titled item K
19:22:00 [davb]
K: Yahoo Group mail list the preceding article came from
19:22:01 [chump]
commented item K
19:23:14 [til]
til has quit (Remote closed the connection)
19:25:06 [davb]
J: [links to more IA stuff | http://semanticstudios.com/publications/]
19:25:06 [chump]
commented item J
19:25:23 [til]
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19:42:11 [donb]
donb (~donb@dsl-dhogaza.pacifier.net) has joined #openacs
19:42:39 [k2pts]
hey don
19:42:43 [donb]
Hi there ...
19:42:57 [k2pts]
got the flu (it's your email I think)
19:42:58 [k2pts]
:)
19:43:44 [donb]
Oh, that's a drag ... my cold last week was pretty bad but not as bad as the flu
19:44:25 [k2pts]
* k2pts don't understand the difference between cold and flu (it's all the same for me)
19:44:41 [donb]
I'm going to be bouncing back-and-forth here as I'm recreating my Oracle user and reloading OACS 4
19:45:37 [donb]
flu=influenza=nasty bad virus fever aches pains bad strains can kill lots of people (millions after WWI for instance)
19:46:25 [donb]
cold=much milder viral infection bunch of different ones lumped together under one term ...
19:46:36 [donb]
more or less, ask the real doc :)
19:48:16 [donb]
so what's up? I'm tracking down a permissions problem in the PG version ...
19:50:21 [k2pts]
it's a cold
19:50:34 [donb]
so what's the word you guys use?
19:50:44 [k2pts]
kryologima
19:51:00 [k2pts]
cold=kryologima, flu=grippi
19:51:24 [docwolf]
influenza = bad. everyone should get their flushot this year.
19:51:27 [docwolf]
docwolf's orders.
19:51:41 [donb]
Special sick pigs in Asia recently? :)
19:51:50 [k2pts]
I did get a flushot
19:52:06 [donb]
flu in german is close to "grippi" too something like der grippe??? I forget.
19:52:14 [docwolf]
the thing is influenza & anthrax look similar. so, we may see a bunch of panicked people running to the docs.
19:52:26 [k2pts]
:)
19:54:47 [donb]
Oh, there's been press about that, right. CDC doesn't like everyone getting flushots 'cause they're afraid the elderly and others at real risk from the flu won't be able to get shots if there's a big run ...
19:55:11 [docwolf]
the thing is, the public health system in this country is a disaster.
19:55:33 [docwolf]
certainly old people & those with weakened immune systems need to get at the front of the line
19:55:38 [donb]
That's for sure ...
19:55:45 [docwolf]
but if we were serious about public health, they would produce enough for all.
19:56:18 [docwolf]
i'm guessing before long everyone will be getting smallpox vaccines again.
19:56:26 [docwolf]
we've just got to build the supply up.
19:56:53 [donb]
That's for sure, too, but we're not. Business is really stupid about this stuff, i.e. days lost to the flu are probably a big enough hit to more than pay for enough flu vaccine ...
19:57:09 [docwolf]
don: exactly. the "externalities" of illness are huge.
19:57:32 [docwolf]
and flu is really deadly to a certain segment of the population. anything we can do to prevent its spread would be useful.
19:58:01 [donb]
Not to mention the long-term hidden costs of our dabbling in anthrax for biological weapons two-three decades ago ...
19:58:20 [docwolf]
yeah. not nice to tamper with mother nature.
19:58:50 [donb]
You know the UK has a small island that's totally off-limits due to anthrax contamination due to experiments spreading it during WWII ...
19:58:53 [docwolf]
it is sad to think that because we are afraid of our fellow humans, we need to expose ourselves to the risk of smallpox vaccines.
19:59:00 [docwolf]
"anthrax island"
19:59:25 [docwolf]
it is impossible to decontaminate spore-infested areas.
19:59:33 [donb]
Yeah, I remember a New Scientist article a few years ago talking about the impossibility of cleaning it up...
19:59:39 [docwolf]
spores are really amazing structures. so well-engineered by nature.
20:00:02 [talli]
talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
20:00:13 [k2pts]
hi talli
20:00:14 [talli]
hey guys
20:00:16 [talli]
lotsa people here today
20:00:18 [talli]
is there a party or something?
20:00:27 [talli]
then why wasn't i invited?
20:00:36 [docwolf]
SURPRISE!
20:00:40 [docwolf]
(feel better?)
20:00:48 [talli]
oh, shucks. thanks doc.
20:00:56 [talli]
you always know how to make a girl feel better.
20:01:04 [donb]
Neophytos - do you mean the new vs. old workflow?
20:01:15 [docwolf]
you came just in time, talli. we were talking about fatal illnesses.
20:01:30 [talli]
oh! your favorite subject, doc!
20:01:44 [k2pts]
donb: yes. I'm not making much progress with the oracle version
20:02:20 [k2pts]
donb: also I would like to enhance search for package specific searches before release.
20:02:40 [donb]
sometimes fatal illnesses. we should talk about mental illness (aD hired some sick hackers)
20:03:23 [docwolf]
don: you don't know the half of it!
20:04:03 [donb]
Neophytos - we should be able to get help on the Oracle version, is there a specific problem? I would like to see package specific searching, too. Is Dave making progress on hooking up InterMedia to your search package?
20:04:27 [donb]
Adam: I don't want to know the whole of it. It might drive *me* over the edge.
20:05:05 [talli]
donb: might part of their illness have contributed to the nasty scalability bug in bboards?
20:05:08 [donb]
I guess Philip got a devotional artical in the NY Times last Sunday, I didn't see it ...
20:05:16 [donb]
Yes, talli, most definitely.
20:05:17 [k2pts]
donb: I know Dave is working on it. Making the package specific searches is not difficult. We need someone to fix the acs-wf oracle version (since it's not very practical to have dave report bugs, then me try fixing them blindly, send him a tarball, and so on)
20:05:36 [davb]
donb: not much progress, but I have a _plan_. I am building an intermedia-driver similar to openfts-driver to meet the requirements of the service contracts.
20:05:43 [docwolf]
don: that article made me ill. It seemed inappropriate to me, especially with a war going on.
20:06:05 [k2pts]
docwolf: any links?
20:06:14 [docwolf]
let's see...
20:06:15 [donb]
Dave - that approach is the one I had in mind.
20:06:52 [donb]
Adam - a client and Mike Sisk read it and e-mailed me some stuff, cc'ing each other, they thought it was pretty disgusting, too.
20:06:57 [k2pts]
donb: th PG version of acs-wf is in very good shape
20:07:01 [docwolf]
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/11/fashion/11ROAD.h
20:07:01 [docwolf]
tml?searchpv=past7days
20:07:02 [davb]
donb: so I am working backwards from the contracts until I run back into intermedia. I will have to insert a bunch of content just to understand how it works.
20:07:02 [chump]
L: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/11/fashion/11ROAD.h from docwolf
20:07:19 [docwolf]
oops.. sorry, link got split in half..
20:07:38 [donb]
I can help a bit with InterMedia stuff and we can always get Janine Sisk to help out, too, she's fought with it a lot.
20:07:54 [davb]
thanks: I will be in contact when I have questions.
20:08:03 [donb]
She can answer questions about getting it running etc...
20:08:08 [k2pts]
the intermedia-driver will help a lot with tsearch (they have a lot in common)
20:08:12 [docwolf]
don: it reads like the typical navel-gazing .com piece... just a couple of years out of date, and now totally out of touch with reality.
20:08:35 [talli]
donb: i need to send out an update on the status of the new openacs, but the short of it is that the site simply can't go live until that bug is fixed.
20:08:37 [donb]
Adam: that was the gist of Mike and Eric's comment (Eric's the client)
20:08:53 [talli]
i imagine that OACS can't even go beta while that bug is hanging out.
20:09:23 [talli]
are people working on fixing it? does elbow grease need to be thrown its way?
20:09:40 [donb]
OK, one of the OpenMSG folks should be able to help with those slow queries and views. I'm afraid one problem is that PG doesn't optimize queries of a certain form that aD picked up on as being very efficient in Oracle ...
20:10:16 [talli]
are they actually efficient in Oracle?
20:10:25 [donb]
I will double check with Peter Harper if I don't hear from him today, he volunteered to pick up some stuff because his current OpenMSG client work was finished. And, Talli, you're right there's no way we go beta with this ...
20:11:21 [talli]
yeah, it's pretty nasty. we tried populating an OACS4 forum and confirmed that things just don't work right.
20:11:36 [talli]
even at 100 postings
20:11:57 [talli]
don't want to think what it would be like with all of the OACS.org system in there.
20:12:03 [donb]
The particular queries I have in mind are, yes. The overall combination of complex views are probably bad in Oracle - it is known that one of the permissions views breaks performance. Jon Griffin's colleague's fix for the basic perms function in Oracle sped it up a lot. Since I have to fix this bug in PG perms anyway I'm going to look at that subset of the problem...
20:12:58 [donb]
Talli - if you guys have a populated example set up, would you mind pg_dumping it and e-mailing it to me? It would save me the trouble of generating a script to load one up here ...
20:13:19 [donb]
Andrew Spencer was going to e-mail me his big test case but got busy.
20:14:00 [talli]
we don't have the dump anymore since we hadn't updated the code recently and ran into a bug that wiped out the CR. however, we have completed the scripts to migrate a 3.2 bboard system to 4
20:14:04 [talli]
we'll send you those
20:14:14 [talli]
those should be even better for you, i think
20:16:11 [donb]
Neophytos - I forget how to make private posts...regarding the CR, though, we need to make it fast ... and it should be possible to do so. There's not really that much extra overhead compared to basic acs_objects. And as far as versioning goes there's a simple select/join to get the latest revision. Figuring out which messages belong to which bboard, counting the responses, and checking permissions involve monstrous general views that get chopped d
20:16:45 [donb]
Actually you look for the live revision, so there's no max aggregate necessary to pick out the latest one ...
20:17:48 [donb]
So you could speed things up a bit by avoiding the CR. It's not the major source of the problem, though, it's all the cruft surrounding
20:18:11 [donb]
Oops - my client didn't cut it off...
20:18:40 [donb]
"chopped down by specific queries inefficiently". In other words they build these huge views of all possibilities then slice out teensy bits.
20:19:07 [donb]
Oracle and PG can each do some optimization in some cases but it seems obvious (from the performance) that neither does so in all cases.
20:19:41 [k2pts]
ok, got to head out for a while
20:20:18 [donb]
Permissions does the same to abstract out details. However it is being used as an abstraction in the PL/[pg]SQL API which is pretty silly. The API is the client abstraction and it needs to be fast and certainly can be written with knowledge of the permissions internals ...
20:20:52 [donb]
Just between me and the rest of the world I don't think much of Richard Li's practical skills...
20:22:16 [donb]
Talli - yes the 3.2->4 scripts will help a lot. I have a site with a bunch of posts in it that I can use as a test case and can time individual queries, too.
20:22:23 [donb]
comparing 3.2 with 4 in other words ...
20:24:50 [donb]
Here's an HTML question that someone might know the answer to: I notice that Konqueror is able to pull out tiny icons from certain websites and use them on the taskbar so you know which taskbar button is associated with which site. How are the sites communicating the icon, any ideas? It's not in the source HTML may be in stylesheets I'm not seeing.
20:26:17 [donb]
For instance Google has a nice little blue "G" in a little blue box. Crucial has a little "CT" logo (I just bought 3 256MB SDRAM ECC sticks for $79 yesterday, sheesh)
20:26:34 [davb]
favicon.ico I think - thats an IEism
20:27:30 [donb]
Ahhh ... OK. Interesting that the Konqueror folks picked up on it. It a nice idea. Implementing it via a magic file is rather sick, though, typical MS...
20:27:47 [davb]
http://www.favicon.com/
20:27:48 [chump]
M: http://www.favicon.com/ from davb
20:28:02 [davb]
M:|Custom Icons for IE and Konqueror
20:28:03 [chump]
titled item M
20:28:32 [davb]
M: Free online editor
20:28:33 [chump]
commented item M
20:29:17 [davb]
M:[Free icons|http://www.favicons.com/]
20:29:18 [chump]
commented item M
20:30:58 [donb]
Thanks! Mozilla's picking it up in December, before 1.0, according to the website. I had been using Mozilla but thought I'd try the version of Konqueror with 2.2.1 and it's *much* faster (which I knew) and now renders otn.oracle.net and a bunch of other places correctly (which it didn't in the past). I noticed the little icons right off the bat ...
20:31:13 [donb]
(that's KDE 2.2.1)
20:31:33 [docwolf]
KDE 2.2.1 is surprisingly good.. though linux still has a long way to go on the desktop.
20:32:11 [Spork]
hmmmmmm
20:32:12 [docwolf]
its getting good enough that people might take pause before spending $200+ in perpetuity on MS stuff
20:32:16 [Spork]
your cpe_ip is {1.3.6.1.4.1.9.9.116.1.3.1.1.3.0.128.198.231.86.155 IpAddress 24.186.169.85}
20:32:26 [Spork]
why can't I lindex $cpe_ip 2
20:33:06 [davb]
there are only 1 elements in that list (0 indexed)
20:33:16 [Spork]
hmm
20:33:21 [Spork]
so how do I get the Ip address
20:33:22 [davb]
or are there 3 I can't tell with the formatting...
20:33:40 [Spork]
3
20:34:12 [Spork]
aha
20:34:13 [Spork]
I got it
20:34:16 [davb]
cool
20:34:45 [donb]
Adam: StarOffice 6.0 Beta is pretty good. I'm using it instead of the equivalent OpenOffice version 'cause Stallman said not to :)
20:35:34 [donb]
Ben likes Evolution but it requires pieces not on my Mandrake 8.1 machine and they only have RPMs up to Mandrake 8.0 (I decided to try Mandrake on my old desktop machine, just for fun).
20:35:41 [docwolf]
don: i'm right there with you, using SO6.0b
20:36:13 [docwolf]
don: yeah, i'm on mandrake 8.1 too, and as of right now ximian red carpet doesn't support it. it looks really daunting trying to install evolution manually.
20:37:09 [Spork]
Don, you run Mandrake?
20:37:22 [donb]
Mandrake 8.1 has a too recent version of sleepy cat, but I was able to edit the configure file so it liked the version I have (they want all installs of evolution to be able to share db files but I don't give a shit myself).
20:37:24 [Spork]
and docwolf?
20:37:36 [docwolf]
spork: yep.
20:37:38 [til]
til has quit (Remote closed the connection)
20:37:39 [Spork]
I got a question then
20:37:44 [Spork]
how the hell do you upgrade the OS?
20:37:44 [til]
til (tils@port-212-202-128-208.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs
20:37:55 [Spork]
Every time I run MandrakeUpdate it craps out
20:38:04 [docwolf]
spork: i've had problems with update too.
20:38:05 [donb]
Spork - 8.1 was their only version I tried. It set up my samba share and found all my hardware just fine.
20:38:22 [docwolf]
spork: i'm just waiting for helix to have a mandrake 8.1 channel, and then will use red carpet.
20:38:53 [donb]
I think Mandrake's updater will always be a problem given it is based on RH RPMs.
20:39:16 [docwolf]
i'm not sure what magic ximian uses, but redcarpet does seem to work quite well.
20:39:21 [Spork]
Well, I hate the in-ability of Mandrake to update itself
20:39:31 [donb]
It's still better than hassling with RPMs by hand, though. The problem is that all the non-RPM updating I do messes things up ...
20:39:35 [docwolf]
spork: have you gone to mandrake and asked them what the deal is?
20:39:43 [Spork]
no
20:39:56 [Spork]
I posted in one of the forums I frequent but it's not Mandrake oriented
20:40:01 [docwolf]
(i didn't "buy" it, so i'm not sure i have the moral authority to ask them to fix their updater ;-) )
20:40:13 [donb]
I wasn't updating this was a new disk (well, one of the old disks I have scattered around the house).
20:40:23 [docwolf]
for me, the updater craps out when trying to add different mirrors.
20:40:49 [donb]
Yeah, I downloaded too ... I've been able to add mirrors but most of them are so slow things time out.
20:40:59 [Spork]
yeah sounds like my problem
20:41:12 [donb]
If they can afford more bandwidth it might work OK.
20:41:14 [Spork]
I'm thinking it might be best to just burn the new iso's and choose update
20:42:20 [donb]
I burned ISOs (I'm actually running their RC1) I choose Mandrake for this particular box because they had KDE 2.2.1 and Mozilla 9.4, which saved me two update hassles right there (my other boxes other than my laptop are all "headless", of course)
20:42:49 [docwolf]
hmm... look at this:
20:42:51 [docwolf]
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=update+mirror&hl=en&group=alt.os.linux.mandrake&rnum=2&selm=9muet5%24bm3%241%40nntp9.atl.mindspring.net
20:42:51 [chump]
N: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=update+mirror&hl=en&group=alt.os.linux.mandrake&rnum=2&selm=9muet5%24bm3%241%40nntp9.atl.mindspring.net from docwolf
20:43:15 [donb]
And I found a driver for my Matrox Marvel G200 + TV tuner that lets me watch TV under linux (other tuners are supported out of the box, the Matrox driver's still under development)
20:43:56 [Spork]
that makes sense
20:44:19 [docwolf]
hmm.. maybet this will help?
20:44:21 [donb]
The latest VMWare beta doesn't play nicely with kernel 2.4+glibc 2.2, as soon as that's straightened out I won't ever have to boot to windows (the other disk in the machine)
20:44:29 [docwolf]
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=3b48bef3.5332007%40news-server&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dupdate%2Bmirror%26hl%3Den%26group%3Dalt.os.linux.mandrake%26rnum%3D5%26selm%3D3b48bef3.5332007%2540news-server
20:44:30 [chump]
O: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=3b48bef3.5332007%40news-server&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dupdate%2Bmirror%26hl%3Den%26group%3Dalt.os.linux.mandrake%26rnum%3D5%26selm%3D3b48bef3.5332007%2540news-server from docwolf
20:45:18 [docwolf]
mandrake is getting really close to being a decent desktop alternative (though it took me about 3 hours + tons of aggravation to get my wireless card working last night..)
20:45:19 [Spork]
ok
20:45:23 [Spork]
I got an odd problem
20:45:42 [Spork]
I have a list
20:45:54 [Spork]
attached_dev
20:45:59 [Spork]
I also have another list
20:46:03 [Spork]
device_macs
20:46:12 [Spork]
i do foreach attached_dev {
20:46:16 [Spork]
store the dev in the table
20:46:18 [Spork]
}
20:46:27 [Spork]
the two tables are parallel
20:46:50 [Spork]
how do I grab the values corresponding to the device_macs?
20:47:29 [donb]
What brand wireless card are you using, Adam? I've been thinking of going wireless, I think I can hit the coffee shop a few hundred feet away ...
20:48:20 [davb]
Spork: I have done it like this:
20:48:36 [davb]
set i 0
20:48:42 [docwolf]
donb: using the most common one around -- lucent/orinoco silver.
20:48:46 [davb]
foreach attached_dev {
20:48:48 [donb]
I've had a lot more frustration getting NICs to work with Windows than Linux the last three years. In fact, the windows install on this box confused itself about the network card to the point where the 3Com diagnostics can't find it and Windows thinks it's gone missing. Networking itself works, though!
20:49:13 [davb]
set whatever [lindex $device_macs i]
20:49:15 [docwolf]
don: you may have better luck than me... others have reported that mandrake picked up this card & configured it immediately.
20:49:16 [davb]
incr i
20:49:17 [davb]
}
20:50:03 [donb]
is this a laptop machine?
20:50:15 [donb]
(Adam's machine that is)
20:50:24 [docwolf]
don: yep, a dell inspiron 8000.
20:50:34 [donb]
Does it have a built-in NIC?
20:50:45 [docwolf]
don: nope. it's a pcmcia card.
20:51:28 [donb]
Yeah, the wireless is, I was wondering if the laptop came with an onboard RJ45 NIC
20:52:16 [docwolf]
don: nope. everything but.
20:52:21 [vinod]
vinod (~vinod@207-172-216-151.s659.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs
20:52:37 [donb]
Usually pcmcia cards work without a hitch. My laptop's still at RH 6.2 and even if found my network card (a dual RJ45/coax Linksys - my home network's coax not hubbed).
20:53:00 [donb]
Hey vinod are you and Roberto making any progress with documentation?
20:53:08 [donb]
(vinod just left #openacs channel :)
20:53:37 [docwolf]
don: the inspiron 8000 does have on-board wired ethernet.
20:53:37 [vinod]
donb: talli and i are still waiting to see his doc roadmap
20:53:40 [donb]
oooohhhh vinod only has dialup????
20:53:45 [vinod]
:(
20:53:50 [vinod]
yup and flakey at that
20:53:59 [donb]
They just don't pay doctors like they used to ...
20:54:13 [vinod]
no kidding - i heard some have to work for vc companies
20:54:41 [donb]
You guys need to bug Roberto ... we really need replacement XML defs so we can use the XML sources. I'll be writing some as soon as I can do it in .xml rather than html
20:55:05 [Spork]
yeeaaaahh
20:55:06 [donb]
I don't want to graduate from alpha2 to beta until we have at least that step solved.
20:55:06 [Spork]
it works
20:55:09 [docwolf]
vinod: it's a living ;-)
20:55:36 [vinod]
docwolf: better than mine, i'm sure ;-)
20:55:44 [donb]
Hey did GE stock go up today now that it looks like there wasn't a catastrophic engine failure on the AA flight?
20:56:03 [docwolf]
mandrake folk: ok, mandrakeupdate is a front-end to URPMI. it is also quite broken. you can use URPMI from the shell, define your own sources & let it do its thing.
20:56:32 [docwolf]
if anyone finds a good mirror for the RPMs, please let the rest of us know ;-)
20:56:52 [docwolf]
(urpmi is supposed to work like apt... in theory.)
20:56:55 [donb]
Yeah, that's the big issue, slow mirrors.
20:57:41 [Spork]
ports
20:57:43 [Spork]
it's the way to go
20:58:35 [Spork]
is this valid
20:58:38 [Spork]
sest i 0
20:58:42 [Spork]
ack
20:58:44 [Spork]
set i 0
20:58:45 [donb]
Oracle isn't officially supporting BSD, so that forces me to be a Linux guy. (some) clients want official support from Oracle and it's best to run our client's environment ...
20:58:57 [Spork]
set ping$i $value
20:59:31 [donb]
Should work ...
21:02:19 [Spork]
so confused
21:02:21 [Spork]
so so confused
21:02:57 [donb]
OK I'm about out of here, just as soon as my laptop shuts down, time to go drink some legal speed and figure out this permissions problem...
21:03:11 [docwolf]
ok, more on the mandrake update disaster:
21:03:13 [docwolf]
http://mandrakeforum.com/article.php?thold=0&mode=nested&order=0&sid=820&lang=en
21:03:13 [chump]
P: http://mandrakeforum.com/article.php?thold=0&mode=nested&order=0&sid=820&lang=en from docwolf
21:05:52 [Spork]
what kind of list stuff does adp have
21:06:01 [Spork]
adp list processing
21:06:51 [Spork]
basically if I have a list foobar which is {f o o b a r}
21:07:13 [Spork]
in an adp page I want to do foreach element in foobar do {
21:07:19 [vinod]
vinod has quit (Ping timeout: 184 seconds)
21:07:21 [Spork]
puts $element
21:07:22 [Spork]
}
21:09:12 [ola]
ola has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
21:10:04 [donb]
donb has quit ("changing universes")
21:10:17 [davb]
you can put any TCL code you want in an ADP.
21:10:53 [ola]
ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs
21:11:18 [Spork]
really?
21:11:25 [Spork]
well shit
21:13:07 [davb]
its just against ACS rules.
21:13:28 [Spork]
acs rules can go kiss my butt
21:15:15 [davb]
heh
21:17:22 [davb]
you should be able to process it in the tcl though...
21:18:17 [davb]
check this out, it uses ns_write with the templating system in the tcl file: http://openacs.org/sdm/package-repository.tcl?current_entry=FILE%20%2fopenacs%2d4%2fpackages%2fsearch%2fwww%20search%2etcl&package_id=9
21:22:54 [til]
Spork: you could also create your own <multiple>, with ::template::multirow create
21:23:44 [Spork]
wait
21:39:27 [Spork]
ok
21:39:33 [Spork]
It does not like my tcl in adp code
21:40:44 [Spork]
do you have to like declare a tcl block or something?
21:40:59 [davb]
<% tcl code %>
21:41:27 [Spork]
aha
21:41:44 [Spork]
can it be tcl + html?
21:42:53 [Spork]
it appears "No"
21:43:24 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
21:43:30 [Spork]
I'm doing this:
21:43:33 [Spork]
<table cols=2 width="80%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align=center>
21:43:33 [Spork]
<th bgcolor=#909090>MAC ADDRESS</th>
21:43:33 [Spork]
<th bgcolor=#909090>IP ADDRESS</th>
21:43:33 [Spork]
<% set i 0
21:43:33 [Spork]
foreach attached_dev dev {
21:43:35 [Spork]
<tr>
21:43:37 [Spork]
<td bgcolor=#FFFFFF>lindex $mac_dev $i</td>
21:43:39 [Spork]
<td bgcolor=#FFFFFF>lindex $attached_dev $i</td>
21:43:41 [Spork]
incr i
21:43:43 [Spork]
</tr>
21:43:45 [Spork]
}
21:43:47 [Spork]
</table>
21:43:54 [til]
you have to use adp_puts "<tr>..." inside the <% %> i think
21:44:05 [davb]
what til said :)
21:44:09 [Spork]
yeah that's what I though
21:44:10 [Spork]
t
21:44:39 [til]
you can also do the nifty shortcut <%= [expr 5 * 5] %>
21:44:56 [til]
not applicable in your complicated example
21:46:02 [Spork]
that work not well all at
21:46:23 [Spork]
leave off the %> i have
21:46:39 [davb]
talking like yoda you are
21:47:26 [Spork]
talking yoda me like
21:48:46 [til]
:)
21:50:46 [davb]
time for me to go home. tomorrow I am attending a pointless waste of time, i mean, conference...
21:50:50 [davb]
good day!
21:51:07 [davb]
davb has quit ()
21:51:17 [Spork]
is it supposed to be surrounded by "?s
21:51:20 [til]
<% foreach a $b { %> <li> ... <% } %> not work will
21:51:32 [Spork]
yikes
21:51:38 [Spork]
I'm not going to un-yoda that
21:52:14 [til]
only the last three words are yoda'd ... doesn't work anyway
21:52:40 [til]
that's what is possible in jsp and annoying that it isn't in adps
21:52:56 [Spork]
so how do I do that
21:53:01 [Spork]
I need to print out a list
21:53:46 [til]
insert a <% foreach a $b { puts "<li>$a" } %> in your adp
21:54:00 [Spork]
huh
21:54:06 [til]
replace puts with adp_puts, sorry
21:54:38 [Spork]
<% set i 0
21:54:38 [Spork]
foreach attached_dev dev {
21:54:38 [Spork]
adp_puts"<tr>"
21:54:38 [Spork]
adp_puts"<td bgcolor=#FFFFFF>lindex $device_macs $i</td>"
21:54:38 [Spork]
adp_puts"<td bgcolor=#FFFFFF>lindex $devices $i</td>"
21:54:39 [Spork]
incr i
21:54:41 [Spork]
adp_puts"</tr>"
21:54:43 [Spork]
}
21:54:45 [Spork]
%>
21:54:49 [Spork]
i did that
21:55:19 [til]
dev would be $dev (typo i guess)
21:55:52 [Spork]
hmm
21:56:10 [til]
and lindex in [] please, but basically that should work
21:56:29 [til]
i mean: [lindex $devices $i]
21:57:07 [Spork]
invalid command name "adp_puts"<tr>""
21:57:07 [Spork]
while executing
21:57:07 [Spork]
"adp_puts"<tr>""
21:57:12 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:57:46 [til]
space missing? adp_puts "<tr>"
21:58:11 [Spork]
damn it
21:58:19 [Spork]
lol
21:58:20 [Spork]
thanks
21:59:03 [Spork]
i can now make my adp page 1/4th the size too
21:59:17 [Spork]
Use the same trick for the 2 ping tables making it independent of the ping numbers
22:00:29 [til]
if you want to keep separation of style and content then you will want to do your own <multiple>
22:00:51 [til]
to avoid the <% %> in the adp, which makes designers fade away
22:00:52 [Spork]
i'm not that good :)
22:01:11 [Spork]
I'm the front end, back end and dba for this program
22:01:13 [Spork]
lol
22:01:19 [Spork]
not much for separation eh?
22:01:57 [til]
ok, i don't want to foster your schizophrenia
22:02:10 [Spork]
Hmm?
22:02:19 [til]
never mind
22:08:09 [Spork]
til, you got a palm pilot?
22:08:44 [til]
no, why?
22:08:52 [Spork]
Pondering getting one
22:08:56 [Spork]
Was looking for opinions
22:09:38 [til]
never had such a thing
22:10:15 [til]
there is some news on slashdot about new linux based ones, but i think they are ugly
22:10:34 [Spork]
iPaq
22:11:36 [til]
does iPaq run linux or bsd?
22:12:30 [Spork]
linux afaik
22:12:37 [Spork]
but I think it's irrelevant
22:12:41 [Spork]
as you can install any
22:12:46 [Spork]
It comes with CE at first
22:12:49 [Spork]
me thinks
22:25:33 [ola]
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22:28:05 [ola]
ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs
22:38:54 [ola]
ola has quit ("changing universes")
22:48:01 [hazmat]
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22:51:26 [hazmat]
hazmat (~chatzilla@66.123.57.58) has joined #openacs
22:52:22 [Spork]
Dang
22:52:31 [Spork]
Databases bah!
22:53:00 [markd2]
markd2 (~markd@166.102.30.96) has joined #openacs
22:53:56 [Spork]
heh
22:53:59 [Spork]
Did you hear me call?
22:54:06 [Spork]
<Spork> Dang
22:54:06 [Spork]
<Spork> Databases bah!
22:54:07 [Spork]
ùíù markd2 [~markd@166.102.30.96] has joined #openacs
22:54:09 [markd2]
I felt that disturbance in the force again
22:54:16 [markd2]
LOL
22:54:17 [Spork]
hehehe
22:54:25 [markd2]
now that is spooky
22:54:29 [markd2]
how's it going?
22:54:33 [Spork]
hang on let me fix one thing before I delve into the db end
22:54:55 [Spork]
ok
22:54:58 [Spork]
I have a table
22:55:06 [Spork]
create table snmp_cm_pings (
22:55:22 [Spork]
incident_id integer,
22:55:28 [Spork]
ping_time integer
22:55:28 [Spork]
)
22:55:37 [Spork]
i'm getting a uniqueness constraint violation
22:55:45 [Spork]
and I know why
22:55:58 [markd2]
yay
22:56:13 [Spork]
but I don't see why i can't have a table that has 2 non-unique things
22:56:43 [markd2]
are you getting a constraint violation on the primary key
22:56:44 [markd2]
?
22:56:57 [Spork]
ora8.c:3930:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-00001: unique constraint (MYOPENACS.SYS_C009211) violated
22:57:20 [markd2]
what table and column is that on?
22:57:54 [Spork]
incident_id integer
22:57:54 [Spork]
constraint snmp_cm_pings_incident_id_fk
22:57:54 [Spork]
references snmp_incidents(incident_id)
22:57:54 [Spork]
primary key,
22:57:54 [Spork]
ping_time integer
22:57:55 [Spork]
);
22:58:01 [Spork]
random guess that this is a problem
22:58:18 [Spork]
can I ditch the primary key, bit?
22:58:48 [markd2]
if having rows with the same incident_id, then yeah
22:59:11 [Spork]
like this (?):
22:59:12 [Spork]
create table snmp_cm_pings (
22:59:12 [Spork]
incident_id integer
22:59:12 [Spork]
constraint snmp_cm_pings_incident_id_fk
22:59:12 [Spork]
references snmp_incidents(incident_id),
22:59:12 [Spork]
ping_time integer
22:59:13 [Spork]
);
22:59:35 [markd2]
yeah
22:59:41 [Spork]
ok
22:59:50 [Spork]
and how do I alter the table to remove this without re-running my script?
22:59:58 [markd2]
urgle
23:00:04 [markd2]
check the docs for Alter Table
23:00:07 [Spork]
gurgle?
23:00:15 [markd2]
alter table snmp_cm_pings drop constraint blah blah blah
23:00:17 [markd2]
or thereaebouts
23:00:25 [Spork]
heh
23:00:44 [markd2]
here ya go
23:00:44 [markd2]
alter table contest_domains drop primary key cascade;
23:00:58 [markd2]
not 100% sure what the cascade does
23:01:06 [markd2]
maybe cleans up any dangling foreign key references if tehre are any
23:01:11 [Spork]
cascades the constraint thing
23:01:14 [Spork]
yes
23:02:06 [Spork]
Doh! :)
23:02:08 [Spork]
ora8.c:3930:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-00936: missing expression
23:03:09 [Spork]
logic error on my part
23:04:42 [Spork]
question
23:04:46 [markd2]
answer
23:04:48 [Spork]
say I have a list oorgle
23:05:11 [markd2]
I have a list oorgle
23:05:12 [Spork]
markd2 Spork davb is the list itself
23:05:22 [markd2]
ok
23:05:38 [Spork]
Now, I'm going to be giving out cookies but markd2 is going to be getting a basket of them
23:05:48 [Spork]
so I only want to go through the spork davb list for cookies
23:05:50 [markd2]
as it should be
23:06:13 [Spork]
now, I want a foreach person $oorgle {
23:06:27 [Spork]
except the first element
23:06:34 [Spork]
Any suggestions?
23:06:49 [Spork]
i see one but I'm not sure if it's good
23:06:57 [markd2]
you can make a new list of lrange [$list 1 end] to lop off the first one
23:07:11 [Spork]
what's more efficient
23:07:12 [Spork]
that
23:07:13 [Spork]
or
23:07:17 [Spork]
sets i 1
23:07:18 [markd2]
or else have a flag variable, and do a 'continue' inside of the loop the first time through
23:07:34 [Spork]
foreach person $oorgle {
23:08:25 [Spork]
do something lindex $oorgle $i
23:08:27 [Spork]
}
23:08:54 [markd2]
maybe something like:
23:09:06 [markd2]
set skip_first_p 1
23:09:11 [markd2]
foreach person $oorgle {
23:09:19 [markd2]
if { $skip_first_p == 1 } {
23:09:26 [markd2]
set skiP-first_p 0
23:09:28 [markd2]
continue
23:09:29 [markd2]
}
23:09:33 [Spork]
no way
23:09:35 [Spork]
that's too complex
23:09:36 [markd2]
do work for the other folks
23:09:36 [markd2]
}
23:09:46 [Spork]
I might as well do lrange
23:10:00 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.4 [Mozilla rv:0.9.4/20010913]")
23:10:29 [Spork]
set mod [lindex $ping_list 0]
23:10:29 [Spork]
set ping_list [lrange [$ping_list 1 end]
23:10:29 [Spork]
foreach ping $ping_list {
23:10:29 [Spork]
db_dml insert "insert into snmp_cm_pings (incident_id, ping_time) values ($incident_id, $ping)"
23:10:30 [Spork]
}
23:10:40 [Spork]
mod has 1st element
23:10:46 [Spork]
then, you chop it off and do foreach
23:10:47 [markd2]
which was my first suggestion :-)
23:12:09 [Spork]
almost
23:13:40 [Spork]
invalid command name "10.158.134.27 9 9 9 10 8"
23:14:14 [markd2]
why are you doing [$ping_list 1 end] ?
23:14:45 [Spork]
to cut off the 1st element
23:15:58 [Spork]
and it's not working
23:15:59 [Spork]
lol
23:16:12 [markdfoo]
markdfoo (~markd@r-41.13.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
23:16:35 [markdfoo]
????
23:16:46 [markdfoo]
[$ping_list 1 end] says to take $ping_list, and treat it as a command
23:16:48 [markdfoo]
remember your basic tcl
23:17:26 [markd2]
markd2 has quit (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)
23:17:27 [Spork]
yeah I got past that once I looked at it
23:17:34 [markdfoo]
markdfoo is now known as markd2
23:17:41 [Spork]
set ping_list [lrange $ping_list 1 end]
23:17:46 [markd2]
there ya go
23:17:47 [Spork]
I did this in tclsh
23:18:12 [Spork]
set ping_list [lrange $ping_list 1 end]
23:18:12 [Spork]
ns_log Notice "your ping list is $ping_list"
23:18:12 [Spork]
foreach ping $ping_list {
23:18:12 [Spork]
db_dml insert "insert into snmp_cm_pings (incident_id, ping_time) values ($incident_id, $ping)"
23:18:12 [Spork]
}
23:18:26 [Spork]
my $ping is still " "
23:19:01 [markd2]
how are you setting _ping_list?
23:19:27 [Spork]
ok
23:19:39 [Spork]
ns_log reveals that what I want is now stored in $ping_list
23:19:45 [Spork]
wait
23:19:50 [markd2]
in your tclsh test
23:19:51 [Spork]
ok
23:20:04 [Spork]
set ping_list "blah 1 1 1 1"
23:20:15 [markd2]
try "set ping_list [list blah 1 1 1 1]"
23:20:42 [Spork]
no no
23:20:43 [Spork]
i'm stupid
23:22:21 [Spork]
no cookies for me
23:23:49 [Spork]
wooohooo
23:23:54 [Spork]
Display logic is broken!
23:26:43 [Spork]
Time to go home
23:26:45 [Spork]
:(
23:26:49 [Spork]
i mean ))))))
23:26:51 [Spork]
:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
23:26:57 [Spork]
I'll see ya laters
23:27:01 [Spork]
* Spork gives Mark a cookie
23:27:07 [Spork]
and milk!
23:27:14 [markd2]
mmmm
23:27:30 [Spork]
:)
23:27:36 [Spork]
There's more in the oven at home
23:27:37 [Spork]
hehehe
23:27:40 [Spork]
be back later
23:27:46 [Spork]
* Spork detaches
23:27:46 [markd2]
l8r
23:31:17 [markd2]
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23:35:54 [docwolf]
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