IRC log of openacs on 2001-11-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:08:00 [vinod]

vinod (vinod@18.61.1.60) has joined #openacs

00:12:02 [talli]

anybody here ever work with db2?

00:12:28 [talli]

hazmat, vinod, rbm, shagster, Psychephylax? anyone work with DB2?

00:12:44 [talli]

sorry for the horribly inappropriate wake up call.

00:13:26 [talli]

i just had to do it. i'm having a moment of difficulty in working out a db2 vs. pg argument. of course, it's a brain dead one (20K vs 0) but still gotta make it

00:13:36 [vinod]

talli: sorry, no db2 here

00:13:52 [vinod]

argument #1: lame name

00:13:59 [talli]

vinod: any brain there?

00:14:10 [vinod]

sorry, no brain here

00:14:23 [talli]

yeah, that's a good argument, but at lesat it's not ambiguous like postgresql

00:15:00 [Psychephylax]

nopers

00:15:17 [vinod]

true - what is a postgre anyway?

00:15:33 [talli]

are you asking seriously?

00:15:57 [talli]

apparently, the original name of PG was ingres when it was started at berkeley

00:16:35 [talli]

then, when some hackers took it out of the academic setting they named it postgres to indicate that it was going into a new lifecycle - post ingres

00:16:48 [vinod]

ahhh - i knew the origins were berkeley, but i thought it was always called postgres, even there

00:16:58 [talli]

then they named it postgres95 to piggy back on big bill's millions of advertising bucks i guess

00:17:15 [talli]

then changed the name again to postgresql when they implemented the sql language in it

00:17:23 [vinod]

haha - so when does postgresXP come out?

00:17:37 [talli]

i forget why it was origingally called ingres, though. you can find out at postgresql.org

00:18:07 [vinod]

are you assigning me homework?

00:18:09 [talli]

postgresXP comes out when all the skaters and snowboard thrashers starting hacking and take the DB to EXTREME levels

00:18:11 [talli]

do the dew!

00:18:51 [vinod]

have you heard of warren miller?

00:18:56 [talli]

nope

00:19:04 [Psychephylax]

ok, time to go recompile 30 diff things into the kernel

00:19:05 [Psychephylax]

I be back later

00:19:09 [talli]

wait, of the milwaukee millers?

00:19:14 [vinod]

he makes these really cool extreme skiing movies - been doing it for 50 years

00:19:27 [vinod]

just saw the 2001 version a couple days ago - 'Cold Fusion'

00:19:31 [talli]

ah, i see.

00:19:37 [vinod]

it was amazing

00:19:41 [talli]

wow! he's making scripting movies now?

00:19:49 [vinod]

lol

00:20:01 [vinod]

* vinod shakes talli out of geek mode

00:20:06 [talli]

vinod: the niners will kick the packs ass in the playoffs

00:20:12 [vinod]

pshaw

00:20:26 [talli]

mike mckensie won't be able to hold terrell owens in check

00:20:42 [talli]

garrison hearst will run roughshod over fat gilbert brown

00:20:52 [vinod]

ok, i'll give terrell 2 tds, but hearst aint gonna do chit against our D

00:21:07 [talli]

is chit some weird wisconsin word?

00:21:27 [talli]

name your d-line.

00:21:28 [vinod]

no, it's indian for shit

00:21:42 [vinod]

brown, that kabir guy, holiday, dotson

00:22:15 [talli]

over the hill, no name, first name vonnie?, over the hill

00:22:38 [vinod]

doesn't matter, they get the job done. favre's over the hill for that matter

00:22:38 [talli]

won't be able to stand to our third ranked offense with double barrelled running game

00:22:47 [vinod]

double-barrelled?

00:22:49 [vinod]

barlow?

00:22:51 [talli]

garrison hearst first, then barlow to change up

00:22:55 [vinod]

hahahaha

00:23:00 [talli]

you see his touchdown run yesterday?

00:23:12 [talli]

71 yard run of power and grace?

00:23:16 [talli]

pow!

00:23:21 [talli]

ahman green my ass.

00:23:22 [vinod]

yeah, just straight down the sideline

00:23:30 [vinod]

new orleans can't tackle

00:23:35 [talli]

breaking three or four tackles

00:23:57 [talli]

i traded green for hearst and owens for my fantasy team

00:24:14 [vinod]

wow - that's an awesome trade (even i would do that!!)

00:24:19 [vinod]

i got hearst on my team

00:24:23 [davb]

davb (dave@alb-66-24-206-3.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs

00:24:29 [talli]

yes, i managed to swindle the poor bastard

00:26:22 [talli]

hearst hadn't started having good games yet

00:26:29 [talli]

and ahman green was leading the league in rushing

00:27:03 [vinod]

for me the only question was whether hearst would start. that barlow guy was takin too many carries :-)

00:28:23 [talli]

you're right. hearst only had like 19 carries yesterday

00:28:32 [talli]

for 145 yards, though! pahwow!

00:28:55 [vinod]

that was awesome, though i was pullin for him to get in the endzone on that last play

00:28:59 [chump]

chump (chump@alb-66-24-204-217.nycap.rr.com) has joined #openacs

00:29:19 [talli]

did you see the game? or was it shown after the pack-bears game?

00:29:57 [vinod]

no, i'm in bahstan, so no pack-bears game. i was watching the giants game and they showed the end of the sf-no game

00:30:03 [talli]

hey guys! i just got an email from thone443@hotmail.com that PPIM is a hot, hot stock tip!

00:30:16 [talli]

i'm gonna go buy 5000000 dollars worth! you should too!

00:30:16 [vinod]

damn! market's closed now

00:31:31 [vinod]

* vinod looks around for his spare 5000000 dollars

00:36:10 [vinod]

http://www.winamp.com/nsdn/winamp2x/dev/sdk/api.jhtml

00:36:10 [chump]

C: http://www.winamp.com/nsdn/winamp2x/dev/sdk/api.jhtml from vinod

00:36:16 [vinod]

C:| winamp API

00:36:16 [chump]

titled item C

00:36:23 [vinod]

c: how to get people to read your docs

00:36:29 [vinod]

C: how to get people to read your docs

00:36:29 [chump]

commented item C

00:36:45 [vinod]

C: scroll down to the 'VBasic:' snippet

00:36:45 [chump]

commented item C

00:52:03 [dent]

[GlobalNotice] Hello, just a note that the glitches has been fixed and in the next 30 minutes we should be reconverting

00:56:53 [syslogd]

syslogd (proxy@ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs

00:57:04 [syslogd]

mmmmm.....non-microsoft flavored operating system

00:57:23 [syslogd]

Roll call!

00:57:28 [syslogd]

* syslogd wonders who's alive

00:57:38 [syslogd]

* syslogd pokes talli with a Psychephylax

00:57:48 [syslogd]

* syslogd pokes vinod with a talli

01:00:19 [syslogd]

Can someone recommend an X e mail client that supports multiple pop/imap accounts?

01:05:23 [shagster]

* shagster wakes up

01:06:09 [syslogd]

heh

01:06:14 [syslogd]

Shaggadelic!!!

01:06:35 [shagster]

Yea baby

01:07:19 [shagster]

Sorry, I don't use X mail clients.

01:07:26 [talli]

anybody know what license vi is released under?

01:07:40 [shagster]

vi or vim ?

01:07:56 [talli]

vi and/or vim

01:08:00 [shagster]

I think vi (Billy Joy I believe) as BSD

01:08:02 [syslogd]

vi is eVIl

01:08:08 [shagster]

vim I believe is GPL'd

01:08:18 [talli]

cool, thanks

01:09:03 [shagster]

I'm checking right now

01:12:18 [shagster]

vim, License::Free to Use But Restricted (from freshmeat)

01:14:53 [shagster]

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/vim/vim/README.txt?rev=1.53&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

01:14:54 [chump]

D: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/vim/vim/README.txt?rev=1.53&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup from shagster

01:15:06 [shagster]

D: vim license

01:15:06 [chump]

commented item D

01:16:49 [talli]

thanks shagster

01:16:51 [talli]

i appreciate it

01:16:58 [shagster]

Sure, no problem.

01:17:11 [shagster]

I actually have time again, woohoo!

01:17:23 [syslogd]

Dum dee dup

01:17:40 [shagster]

syslogd: easy for you to say :)

01:19:27 [shagster]

I'm not officially ready to help with a webmail module for OpenACS

01:20:18 [shagster]

Umm _now_ not not

01:20:19 [syslogd]

Eh?

01:20:49 [shagster]

*grr* blood alcohol content too low to function correctly

01:24:05 [talli]

see ya guys later

01:24:07 [talli]

have a good eve

01:24:10 [talli]

talli has quit (Peace & Protection 4.00 FINAL BETA)

01:34:04 [davb]

syslogd: the mozilla one is not bad.

01:34:25 [davb]

but mutt is fine for me :)

01:35:57 [syslogd]

I'm gonna play around with them a bit

01:36:22 [syslogd]

I kinda like sylpheed

01:36:32 [syslogd]

But I already found a few things that anger me greatly

01:36:39 [syslogd]

Dave, I got a question for you

01:36:54 [syslogd]

how do I start an x app remotely

01:37:03 [davb]

I tried about 10 different ones, none worked :< anyway mutt is super fast and efficient once you learn the keys, and super configurable.

01:37:08 [davb]

I have no idea.

01:37:17 [syslogd]

I'm sshing in, setenv'ing to my lan ip

01:37:20 [syslogd]

but I still can't run it

01:37:20 [davb]

Never tried it. I stick with consolse apps for remote access.

01:37:58 [davb]

You need a tunnel or something. Plus you need your X server to allow remote access I think, or something like that.

01:39:28 [syslogd]

shit

01:39:33 [syslogd]

I can't print in BSD yet

01:41:49 [hazmat]

syslogd: is ssh setup for forwarding?, display env set?

01:42:03 [syslogd]

server side is

01:42:08 [syslogd]

I'm not sure about client side

01:42:58 [syslogd]

nblyumbe@homer../home/nblyumbe>setenv DISPLAY 192.168.0.4

01:42:59 [syslogd]

nblyumbe@homer../home/nblyumbe>xterm

01:42:59 [syslogd]

xterm Xt error: Can't open display: 192.168.0.4

01:42:59 [syslogd]

nblyumbe@homer../home/nblyumbe>

01:44:17 [hazmat]

display needs to specify a screen number as well

01:44:49 [syslogd]

does it?

01:44:50 [syslogd]

ok

01:45:11 [hazmat]

umm.... i think? 192.168.0.4:0.0 ?, its been a while...

01:45:23 [syslogd]

just :0 is fine

01:45:31 [syslogd]

but now I get a nother error

01:45:36 [syslogd]

nblyumbe@homer../home/nblyumbe>xterm

01:45:37 [syslogd]

Xlib: connection to "192.168.0.4:0.0" refused by server

01:45:37 [syslogd]

Xlib: Client is not authorized to connect to Server

01:45:37 [syslogd]

xterm Xt error: Can't open display: 192.168.0.4:0

01:45:37 [syslogd]

nblyumbe@homer../home/nblyumbe>

01:58:01 [syslogd]

Dave

01:58:03 [syslogd]

You awake?

01:58:11 [syslogd]

* syslogd sends "Mutt" after Dave

02:01:38 [hazmat]

syslogd: i think this relates to my first question.. is ssh setup for forwarding (x)... it should be in the config files for ssh on the server.

02:02:15 [syslogd]

the server is, I can run X apps from windows over SSH

02:02:47 [syslogd]

I think my X server on this machine does not want to accept the conection because it doesn't trust it

02:03:40 [hazmat]

hazmat has quit ()

02:18:05 [davb]

* davb is back

02:18:40 [davb]

but I still can't help you... :)

02:39:18 [davb]

davb has quit ()

03:02:40 [talli]

talli (talli@lti-4.dialup.access.net) has joined #openacs

03:23:50 [talli]

talli has quit (Read error to talli[lti-4.dialup.access.net]: Connection reset by peer)

03:25:18 [aegrumet]

aegrumet (aegrumet@h002078cd53e1.ne.mediaone.net) has joined #openacs

03:30:04 [abbaJ]

abbaJ (jabba@adsl-65-65-96-86.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

03:31:37 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Hi all. We're heading toward another cutover. You might want to check out New Code land on irc.openprojects.net:9000 to help us do a bit of preliminary testing, and check out http://openprojects.net/using_the_network.shtml for a reference sheet on channel and user modes for the new software. Thanks.

03:32:15 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] We have not updated the services database in New Code land and won't do so, we'll just keep fixing things from there. Thanks.

03:36:10 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] And in case nobody has told you lately, thanks for your patience. :)

03:39:05 [vinod]

vinod has quit (changing universes)

03:44:35 [abbaJ]

abbaJ has quit (Read error to abbaJ[adsl-65-65-96-86.dsl.austtx.swbell.net]: EOF from client)

03:47:46 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Dent informs me that, if you care to wander over to the test bed (just pick your normal server and use port 9000), it will become the production network rather seamlessly when it's time. So you may want to wander over sooner rather than later. ;) Thanks!

04:29:58 [aegrumet]

aegrumet has quit (Client Exiting)

04:56:55 [syslogd]

syslogd has quit (Read error to syslogd[ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net]: EOF from client)

05:08:28 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax has quit (farmer.openprojects.net forward.openprojects.net)

05:08:28 [chump]

chump has quit (farmer.openprojects.net forward.openprojects.net)

05:08:32 [irc.openprojects.net]

Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer)

05:08:39 [loggy]

loggy (openacs-lo@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs

05:08:40 [benford.openprojects.net]

topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/

05:08:40 [benford.openprojects.net]

Users on #openacs: loggy @AaronSw shagster

05:08:40 [ChanServ]

This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog

05:08:48 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has quit (benford.openprojects.net farmer.openprojects.net)

05:09:52 [AaronSw]

AaronSw (aaronsw@mewtwo.espnow.com) has joined #openacs

05:12:34 [irc.openprojects.net]

Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer)

05:12:41 [loggy]

loggy (openacs-lo@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs

05:12:41 [carter.openprojects.net]

Users on #openacs: @loggy

05:13:08 [irc.openprojects.net]

Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer)

05:13:10 [loggy]

loggy (~openacs-l@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs

05:13:10 [carter.openprojects.net]

Users on #openacs: loggy AaronSw shagster chump

05:13:18 [ChanServ]

[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog

05:13:55 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw reconnects

06:18:45 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice]

06:19:09 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Just a reminder. If you have conversion problems, including channel access list problems, please stop by #conversion. Thanks.

11:52:05 [Nagualito]

Nagualito (sdgsdgd@athe530-e039.otenet.gr) has joined #openacs

11:52:10 [Nagualito]

Nagualito has left #openacs

12:41:54 [markd2]

markd2 (~markd@166.102.41.115) has joined #openacs

12:42:19 [markd2]

markd2 is now known as m0nk3yb0t

12:43:00 [m0nk3yb0t]

m0nk3yb0t is now known as markd2

12:59:03 [markd2]

markd2 has changed the topic to: This topic no verb.

13:15:37 [markd2]

markd2 has quit ("Bork")

13:54:55 [markd2]

markd2 (markd@r-41.182.alltel.net) has joined #openacs

13:55:49 [vinod]

vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-241.s1257.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs

13:56:28 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax (proxy@ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs

13:56:35 [markd2]

wheeee

13:56:54 [Psychephylax]

heh

13:56:57 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax is tired

13:58:45 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax gives Mark a cookie for breakfast

13:58:56 [markd2]

thanks!

13:58:58 [vinod]

this topic no verb?

13:59:00 [Psychephylax]

:)

13:59:02 [markd2]

* markd2 is camped at a friend's house

13:59:14 [Psychephylax]

Hi Vinod

13:59:17 [markd2]

our electric is being worked on today, so no power at home

13:59:25 [vinod]

hey Psychephylax

13:59:55 [Psychephylax]

Anyone use Mandrake here?

14:00:36 [vinod]

Psychephylax: nope, sorry

14:00:56 [davb]

davb (~dave@208.136.23.203) has joined #openacs

14:01:02 [vinod]

markd2: what? you couldn't live without power for 1 day?

14:01:08 [vinod]

hey davb!

14:01:15 [markd2]

I wish

14:01:18 [davb]

HI!

14:01:21 [Psychephylax]

hey all

14:01:25 [markd2]

but the client I'm bleeding my aD time with is in the middle of a Big Migration

14:01:52 [vinod]

markd2: ouch... i see the countdown is 18 :-)

14:02:16 [markd2]

yep!

14:03:04 [markd2]

that's now a countdown to when I can open my ipod

14:03:15 [markd2]

the wife got it as an unemployment present

14:03:50 [vinod]

oh - thought the aDPL didn't let you use cool gadgets or something ;-)

14:03:58 [markd2]

heh

14:04:05 [markd2]

luckily I don't use acs/java, so that doesn't apply. muahahahahaha

14:04:11 [vinod]

haha

14:04:42 [vinod]

* vinod wonders if i'm supposed to get markd2 an unemployment present

14:04:51 [markd2]

no need

14:04:55 [vinod]

* vinod checks his couch for cookie crumbs

14:05:06 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax gives Mark more cookies

14:05:14 [markd2]

mmm.. weight gain...

14:05:18 [Psychephylax]

:)

14:05:35 [Psychephylax]

Soon I'll have to start giving you sticks of butter so you can get out of your house :-/

14:06:06 [markd2]

heh

14:06:10 [markd2]

mmmm.. dairy products

14:06:25 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax is afraid mark will eat the butter

14:07:18 [markd2]

too late

14:10:00 [davb]

argh! They put the muffins in the wrong bin again!

14:10:08 [markd2]

sounds kinky

14:11:03 [davb]

no I just got an icky one that I can't eat...

14:11:14 [davb]

they _look_ the same...

14:13:24 [Psychephylax]

lol

14:15:49 [davb]

http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?WikiLog

14:15:49 [chump]

A: http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?WikiLog from davb

14:16:04 [davb]

A:|Wikilog == weblog + wiki

14:16:04 [chump]

titled item A

14:16:26 [davb]

A: Edit-this-page for Openacs can do all this (with a little clever templating)

14:16:26 [chump]

commented item A

14:16:52 [davb]

A: But don't forget Edit-this-page also is part of a robust, content management system!

14:16:52 [chump]

commented item A

14:17:13 [davb]

Don't want talli to think I am subverting his marketing efforts :)

14:20:13 [davb]

http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?ViewPoint

14:20:13 [chump]

B: http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?ViewPoint from davb

14:20:19 [davb]

B:| ViewPoint

14:20:20 [chump]

titled item B

14:20:29 [davb]

B: another cool idea in community communication on the web

14:20:30 [chump]

commented item B

14:30:43 [markd2]

markd2 has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

14:31:09 [davb]

* davb thinks about migrating the chump to work inside AOLserver with PyWX

14:32:43 [vinod]

how does chump work now? (i'm clueless)

14:34:15 [davb]

Its a python script that is an IRC client and listens to the channel. it writes the output to XML files.

14:34:41 [davb]

Then I run a scheduled proc in AOLserver to XSLT the files to html and rss every 5 minutes.

14:35:44 [davb]

Or I just need to get the XML data into the database. thats the real trick.

14:36:52 [vinod]

so, if it was in PyWX, instead of writing to XML files, you could write directly to the db

14:38:52 [davb]

Oh yeah, right, i forgot about that :)

14:39:38 [vinod]

* vinod thinks davb is just looking for an excuse to use python :-)

14:40:04 [davb]

Not really. I don't have time to learn, and the indentation code block thing scares me :)

14:41:11 [vinod]

yeah - i haven't used it much at all yet. but some of the features are interesting, like being able to pass functions as parameters (is that the right description)

14:41:54 [vinod]

makes it seem lisp-like

14:45:36 [davb]

close enough for me :)

14:46:52 [vinod]

need to keep plugging away at SICP so i can at least sound like a programmer :-)

14:47:41 [davb]

I need to start it. I am planning on learning my math first, calculus, etc...

14:49:36 [davb]

argh, my mail is broken again (its not my day :)

14:50:06 [vinod]

doh!

14:50:55 [vinod]

i spose math and calculus are important, but i'm too impatient (so far, the math concepts haven't been too difficult)

14:51:19 [abbaJ]

abbaJ (~jabba@adsl-65-65-96-86.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #openacs

14:51:21 [davb]

I want to learn everything though, I am mirroring mostly the adUNI path.

14:52:22 [davb]

weird. when I do a dns query for the MX for my domain it doesn't work. If I just query for the domain name or a server name it works ok.

14:52:27 [vinod]

yeah - i'm actually a math geek. it was my favorite subject

14:52:49 [davb]

I learned up to calculus, but that was 10 years ago, so I forgot most of it.

14:54:09 [davb]

hmmm... now it seems to work...

14:54:19 [vinod]

dns is a black art

14:54:24 [davb]

yes

14:55:48 [davb]

now I probably have to wait another 24 hours for it to fix itself...

15:03:31 [markd2]

markd2 (markd@r-41.182.alltel.net) has joined #openacs

15:26:06 [shagster]

there is no art to dns

15:26:18 [shagster]

Women are easier to understand :)

15:26:27 [davb]

heh

15:28:03 [shagster]

But more and more I find the biggest problem with DNS is ... Bind

15:28:14 [davb]

true.

15:29:22 [shagster]

In fact, I've just about finished my converstion to djbdns since I has having some many DNS issues

15:32:23 [til]

til (tils@port-212-202-128-208.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs

15:46:08 [abbaJ]

abbaJ has quit (Remote closed the connection)

16:39:33 [talli]

talli (~talli@205.253.219.118) has joined #openacs

16:39:45 [talli]

hey guys

16:42:08 [davb]

Hi talli

16:44:04 [vinod]

hey talli

16:45:15 [davb]

http://www.djbdns.org/

16:45:16 [chump]

C: http://www.djbdns.org/ from davb

16:45:27 [davb]

C:|djbdns.org - more djbdns stuff

16:45:27 [chump]

titled item C

16:53:03 [davb]

Talli: any news on the new and improved openacs.org?

16:53:20 [talli]

working on it. i will have some news soon

16:53:28 [talli]

but nothing can happen until

16:53:45 [talli]

a) the bboards are fixed. the scalability issue is major. if it's not fixed, they are useless

16:53:55 [talli]

b) rbm writes up what he's thinking about the docs

16:54:09 [davb]

OK.

16:54:19 [davb]

That scalability issue is major. ouch.

16:54:20 [talli]

next time you see him, annoy him about this. i've been chasing him for three weeks just to write me an email what he's thinking about

16:54:33 [davb]

Aha.

16:55:12 [davb]

I think its fixable.

16:55:37 [davb]

because we have a good team of people, not based on any technical knowledge of the bboards

16:57:48 [davb]

I am sure vinod is working on that right now

16:57:49 [talli]

yeah, i agree it's fixable, and i know that don is on the job or at least will be soon

16:57:58 [talli]

but the site can't go up or live till it's fixed.

16:58:13 [davb]

right.

16:58:18 [talli]

but i have been off my responsibility of keeping people up to date.

16:58:22 [talli]

i will try and get to it today

16:58:42 [davb]

np. I am just trying to avoid work again :)

17:16:46 [talli]

talli has quit ("Peace & Protection 4.00 FINAL BETA")

17:17:47 [davb]

http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlibrary/100best/novels.html

17:17:48 [chump]

D: http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlibrary/100best/novels.html from davb

17:18:01 [davb]

D:| anyone see a trend in the right hand "reader's list"?

17:18:02 [chump]

titled item D

17:18:11 [davb]

D: 100 best novels

17:18:11 [chump]

commented item D

17:25:12 [vinod]

wow, only 4 ayn rand and 3 l ron hubbard books in the top ten? Surely they must have written some other books that we could stick in there

17:25:24 [ola]

ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs

17:25:35 [ola]

hello

17:25:51 [vinod]

hey ola!

17:26:25 [davb]

C:

17:26:25 [chump]

http://www.djbdns.org/

17:26:26 [chump]

djbdns.org - more djbdns stuff

17:26:27 [ola]

hi vinod

17:28:21 [ola]

can you get to www.infogettable.com ?

17:28:37 [ola]

(I just switched to tinydns)

17:29:04 [vinod]

ola: could not be found :(

17:29:20 [ola]

err www.infogettable.net :-(

17:29:49 [vinod]

yup, that works :-)

17:30:03 [ola]

thanks!

17:31:40 [vinod]

np

17:34:24 [ola]

davb: I was fooled by the testing procedures to believe my tinydns installation was bad - while it was working all along (I just didn't test it)...

17:35:13 [davb]

argh :)

17:35:23 [ola]

:-)

17:46:45 [til_]

til_ (tils@port-212-202-128-208.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs

17:46:45 [til]

til has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

17:59:25 [vinod]

geez - he goes on a roadtrip and that get's him into the new york times...

17:59:30 [vinod]

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/11/fashion/11ROAD.html

17:59:38 [markd2]

yeah

17:59:45 [markd2]

* markd2 wonders what happened to eve

18:02:13 [vinod]

if markd2 goes on a roadtrip once he's unemployed, i'll submit a story to slashdot

18:03:01 [markd2]

LOL

18:03:05 [markd2]

I might drive down to virginia

18:03:13 [markd2]

play a concert

18:03:14 [markd2]

hang out

18:03:16 [markd2]

set stuff on fire

18:03:50 [vinod]

the markd2 farewell tour!!! featuring FIRE!!

18:06:26 [markd2]

huh huh huh huh huh, he said Fire, Beeavis

18:07:47 [vinod]

yeah. Yeah. YEAH. YEAH!!!!

18:13:35 [hazmat]

hazmat (~chatzilla@66.123.57.58) has joined #openacs

18:35:50 [vinod]

vinod has quit ("changing universes")

18:36:38 [markd2]

every time he does that, my desks melt and the cats start talking

18:39:06 [davb]

heh

18:39:39 [hazmat]

anybody seen k2pts...

18:40:15 [davb]

darn time-space continuum warping...

18:40:19 [davb]

Not today.

18:40:56 [hazmat]

bummer, thanks davb

18:46:22 [til_]

til_ has quit (Ping timeout: 184 seconds)

18:47:57 [til]

til (tils@port-212-202-128-208.reverse.qsc.de) has joined #openacs

18:54:24 [talli]

talli (~talli@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs

18:56:02 [talli]

hey AaronSw, i have wound. can you undo it?

18:56:17 [AaronSw]

Huh?

18:56:40 [talli]

have you seen scripting.com today?

18:57:33 [talli]

wait, go to http://winerlog.editthispage.com/ seems winer censored himself for saying something really stupid

18:58:01 [ola]

ola has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

18:58:22 [ola]

ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs

18:58:39 [talli]

http://static.userland.com/images/llamas/davehatesyou.gif

18:58:40 [chump]

E: http://static.userland.com/images/llamas/davehatesyou.gif from talli

18:59:15 [talli]

E: AaronSw and his evil band of RSS cohorts has painfully wounded the internet, according to Dave Winer

18:59:16 [chump]

commented item E

18:59:28 [davb]

http://www.ecs.com.tw/products/bookpc2.htm

18:59:28 [chump]

F: http://www.ecs.com.tw/products/bookpc2.htm from davb

18:59:46 [davb]

F:|BookPC - Cool Small PC cases

18:59:46 [chump]

titled item F

19:00:42 [davb]

E: again

19:00:42 [chump]

commented item E

19:01:29 [davb]

F: actually not quite a PC, but cool anyways

19:01:29 [chump]

commented item F

19:01:55 [AaronSw]

logger, off

19:02:00 [AaronSw]

loggy, off

19:03:14 [davb]

talli: you really do not want to know

19:03:39 [talli]

why? does it have something to do with school?

19:04:37 [davb]

He just takes things a little to personally.

19:06:29 [davb]

F:[USA distributor|http://www.ecsusa.com/systems.cfm]

19:06:30 [chump]

commented item F

19:06:58 [davb]

* davb goes to a dorky meeting

19:07:08 [hazmat]

ouch.

19:07:18 [hazmat]

whats up with the rss1.0 flames...

19:07:48 [hazmat]

not that many people actually use rss1.0...

19:08:10 [talli]

AaronSw is on the w3c working group for RSS

19:08:21 [AaronSw]

no, RDF

19:08:24 [talli]

dave winer is a loser who's got a bif ego

19:08:26 [talli]

sorry, RDF

19:08:30 [talli]

big ego

19:08:42 [AaronSw]

I'm on the open, independent developers WG for RSS.

19:08:53 [talli]

and he needs to take shots at people who don't pray to him

19:09:50 [hazmat]

the internet is full of big egos, i ignore them till they say something that makes sense, dave winer has said things which make sense...

19:10:58 [talli]

so has vinod. you gonna start listening to him now?

19:11:12 [hazmat]

AaronSw: have you ever looked at redfoot.sf.net or www.4suite.org (4suite server) ?

19:11:17 [AaronSw]

Yep.

19:11:30 [AaronSw]

I know the developers of redfoot, and I'm well aware of the 4suite work.

19:12:15 [hazmat]

whatcha ya think of them as rdf tools?

19:12:32 [AaronSw]

Well, what kind of work are you doing?

19:14:56 [hazmat]

software package managment, resource discovery and dependency (graphs), for this work i was going thinking about using redfoot, or python pickles directly with something like kjgraph (graph objects for python)... i use 4suite for xslt, never played around with the server but it looks very much like a rdf based document repository with lots of xml goodness thrown in.

19:18:10 [AaronSw]

Redfoot might be pretty good for that.

19:18:26 [AaronSw]

I'm also working on an RDF API which you can feel free to test, but it's in pretty basic form right now.

19:18:29 [talli]

hazmat, if i may interrupt when you have a chance...

19:18:58 [talli]

got a question for you hazmat, when you're done with AaronSw

19:21:27 [hazmat]

AaronSw: thanks for the offer, but i think i'll stick with redfoot for now. rdf inferencing basically reminds of me prolog... ot: what the heck does espnow do?

19:21:31 [hazmat]

whats up talli

19:22:15 [AaronSw]

oh, espnow? they provide resources for my new rdf-based project: the plex

19:22:34 [talli]

hazmat: how are you finding pywx?

19:22:49 [talli]

is it mature? does it work? find any bugs? any probs? any suggestions?

19:23:05 [talli]

i see that the mailing list is pretty dead now, though

19:23:34 [hazmat]

AaronSw: the plex?

19:23:46 [talli]

if we were going to build a python based system, do you recommend using aolserver or apache? (we can't go zope)

19:24:02 [AaronSw]

yeah, the Plex... http://plexdev.org

19:27:46 [hazmat]

talli: re pywx, it has been very stable, only 1 bug worth mentioning a couple of caveats as well.

19:29:25 [talli]

ok

19:29:31 [talli]

what about it's continued dev?

19:29:50 [talli]

i have a client who is somewhat skeptical about OACS and we want to offer AOLserver/python

19:29:54 [hazmat]

talli: is it mature, i would say yes. i'm frankly amazed by how well it works, i haven't found any mem leaks, or the like in my stress testing. as i've said before i've successfully embeded zope in aolserver using it. last night i hooked up soap via zsi (pywebsvcs.sf.net) to aolserver with it. its been very cool.

19:29:58 [talli]

will pywx be continued to extended?

19:30:11 [talli]

ok, cool. good to know

19:30:23 [talli]

seems like the best of all worlds if we could use python in aolserver

19:30:46 [talli]

anyway, brb. latte time.

19:33:00 [hazmat]

talli: i asked that question on the mailing list... re continued dev... i would guess yes, but there aren't many people using it. the biggest problem is only one of the original developer is still using it, although he intends on continuing his usage, most of the wrapping is done via swig so it automates much of the nitty gritty of integration with the aolserver api.

19:33:47 [hazmat]

if i can get the site i'm working on to be a community institution than i hope i can interest others in working with and developing it....

19:33:53 [hazmat]

so the caveats.

19:35:15 [hazmat]

the biggest problem is documentation, you have to be able to look at the both the aolserver c api reference and consult the swig bindings. most of pywx is a straight wrapping of the c api of aolserver

19:36:16 [davb]

argh! I missed all the cool stuff....

19:36:19 [davb]

* davb reads the backlog

19:38:22 [hazmat]

the other caveats really deal with acs integration which is something i've been working on.

19:39:04 [davb]

ok.

19:39:14 [hazmat]

pywx can run in MIMT (multiple intepreter multi thread mode) and SIMT (single interpreter), most python code runs as single intepreter mode (with multiple threads)

19:39:29 [davb]

I was under the impression that people are using PyWX to get work done.

19:40:32 [hazmat]

when you're calling python from tcl it has to be called with MIMT mode, the problem with mimt mode is that it is slow, and takes away from the ability to do things like caching and information sharing within the python layer.

19:41:11 [hazmat]

i've got MIMT mode integrated with the template machinery of the acs... but i'm more interested in running SIMT mode for packages and applications

19:41:35 [hazmat]

which is something i still have to work on.

19:42:23 [hazmat]

using mimt i was able to get a templated listing of my mailbox via imap...

19:43:02 [hazmat]

davb: pywx is running in production for some of the developers. not sure who else...

19:43:21 [davb]

Ok.

19:46:37 [hazmat]

where is k2pts... oh where or where can he be...

19:48:53 [hazmat]

hazmat has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

19:50:01 [hazmat]

hazmat (~chatzilla@adsl-66-123-57-58.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs

19:54:56 [hazmat]

hmmm.. anyone seen this error before Server startup failed: Error during bootstrapping

19:55:07 [hazmat]

error "Unable to locate [acs_root_dir]/packages/$package/*.""

19:55:09 [hazmat]

(procedure "apm_load_queries" line 15)

19:55:10 [hazmat]

invoked from within

19:55:12 [hazmat]

"apm_load_queries"

19:55:51 [davb]

It doesn't show the expanded Tcl for $package?

19:55:55 [hazmat]

error happens on a restarted server...

19:56:23 [hazmat]

it does show the expanded name but that package directory exists, so i don't know why its bombing out...

19:56:43 [davb]

Aha. weird. Its already installed so if it worked last time it should still work...

19:57:42 [hazmat]

maybe this is my sign that its time to upgrade to postgres7.2....

19:58:34 [hazmat]

hmm. the referenced package is not in apm_packages either...

19:59:48 [hazmat]

ah, its in package_types though...

20:02:10 [hazmat]

oh yeah, the other annoying thing to using pywx with acs, is tracking the log file with level debug, means you get an assload of messages from scheduled procs and the qd which make tracking anything a royal pain...

20:02:14 [talli]

guys, does anyone have a criticism of PHP's security structure?

20:02:53 [hazmat]

what security structure?

20:02:55 [markd2]

just uninformed bigoted hatred

20:03:26 [davb]

yeah, that needs to be a parameter, turn all off OpenACS logging.

20:03:36 [davb]

or maybe, per package.

20:03:38 [hazmat]

hmm... removing the referenced package from apm_package_type and and apm_package_versions fixed it.

20:03:53 [talli]

hehe.

20:04:09 [talli]

is PHP an insecure environment? is it something tha should be worried about?

20:04:35 [hazmat]

php is a programming language afaik, applications build their own security mechanisms.

20:04:49 [talli]

(explanation: i am offering alternative dev platforms to OACS. one is python+aolserver, next is PHP+apache and finally, ugh, java+tomcat+apache)

20:04:58 [hazmat]

zope

20:05:00 [talli]

hazmat: yes, ok.

20:05:05 [davb]

heh

20:05:13 [talli]

well, yes zope. but w don't have experience with zope

20:05:37 [ola]

ola has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

20:05:42 [talli]

but it would have been nice to have that in our bag to pull out

20:05:49 [talli]

this is kind of funny, though...

20:06:39 [markd2]

Zope on a rope

20:06:39 [talli]

this is a Nonprofit with a 100K budget that wants a fairly sophisticated DB system

20:06:49 [talli]

so we submitted a bid with OACS, PG, linux, etc.

20:06:56 [hazmat]

zope is dope... :)

20:07:06 [talli]

they responded, "well, we're not sure we want to go with something that obscure...

20:07:18 [talli]

"we're thinking java, tomcat and DB2"

20:07:24 [hazmat]

to lunch.

20:07:33 [AaronSw]

AaronSw is now known as danbri-lap

20:08:22 [davb]

they need more $$$

20:08:28 [ola]

ola (~ola@as3-1-3.mal.s.bonet.se) has joined #openacs

20:08:30 [hazmat]

i would challenge anyone to a dev contest for building apps faster with zope vs. another platform, any takers

20:08:31 [talli]

tell me about it

20:08:56 [talli]

hazmat: no.

20:09:01 [hazmat]

* hazmat shuts up and crawls into a corner before the hailstorm hits... :)

20:09:05 [davb]

hazmat: I bet you win.

20:09:28 [talli]

i believe you that zope is cool. but, as i;m sure you would admit: use the tool that fits

20:09:39 [davb]

But OpenACS 4 is catching up fast. Depends if the included applications fit the sites needs.

20:09:56 [danbri-lap]

danbri-lap is now known as AaronSw

20:10:13 [hazmat]

totally which is why i'm using the openacs righ now, but i keep kicking myself because i know i'm working alot harder to do things...

20:11:08 [talli]

yeah, and zope may be better for building biz logic, but i am still not convinced it's best for developing heavy DB apps

20:11:26 [hazmat]

sorry, gotta go to lunch with the gf.

20:11:30 [davb]

Zope has a book, when is the OpenACS coming out? :)

20:11:58 [davb]

* davb thinks he just volunteered to write a book :(

20:12:19 [talli]

no, once we start getting the doc effort going, we should have something that approximates a book

20:12:23 [talli]

at least outstanding documentaiton

20:13:05 [davb]

Yes. The volunteers are ready!

20:14:07 [ola]

davb, are you writing a book? cool!

20:14:15 [ola]

:-)

20:14:20 [davb]

uhoh.

20:14:26 [talli]

we'll be using DocBook, so it will be reasonably easy to print out paper copies of the docs

20:14:31 [davb]

* davb thinks about installing Zope on the work computer.

20:14:58 [davb]

actually I will DL it at home and see how long it takes to get running.

20:16:22 [talli]

more importantly, docbook can spit out the content as a PDF, a print book, HTML and even man pages!

20:16:59 [davb]

cool. Actually all the object stuff in Zope is already giving me a headache.

20:17:35 [ola]

talli: DocBook is real nice. my brother has written a whole book in it...

20:18:04 [talli]

whoa. cool

20:18:09 [talli]

what was the book about?

20:18:23 [talli]

don't let hazmat hear that...

20:18:31 [talli]

he might attack you.

20:19:03 [ola]

It's about world history - from Big Bang to september 11...

20:19:28 [ola]

it will be available online in a couple of weeks.

20:21:14 [ola]

hey dave, how come I can get to www.infogettable.net but NOT infogettable.net?

20:21:38 [ola]

I used to be able to do that with named.

20:22:05 [davb]

you didn;t set it up

20:22:10 [davb]

:)

20:22:24 [davb]

add an alias from inforgettable.net to www.infogettable.net's IP address

20:23:32 [ola]

I did something like: ./add-alias www.infogettable.net 123.123.123.123

20:23:54 [ola]

so should I do: ./add-alias www.infogettable.net 123.123.123.123

20:23:58 [ola]

err

20:24:05 [ola]

so should I do: ./add-alias infogettable.net 123.123.123.123

20:24:07 [ola]

?

20:24:23 [davb]

looks good.

20:24:27 [davb]

the second one

20:24:39 [ola]

maybe I should try..:-)

20:24:47 [davb]

its much simpler than BIND

20:25:07 [davb]

its _too_ easy almost if you are used to the complexity of BIND. Luckily I never figured out BIND.

20:25:08 [ola]

yes! I love tinydns.

20:25:22 [ola]

heh

20:25:54 [davb]

It is the wave of the future.

20:31:20 [ola]

davb: would you mind telling me if it's working now? (I cant get to my own domain...)

20:33:49 [davb]

yep.

20:34:15 [davb]

redirects to www.inforgettable.net (openacs does that ForceHostP)

20:34:45 [ola]

Ahh! cool. Thanks.

20:41:36 [yPsychephlax]

yPsychephlax (proxy@ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs

20:41:49 [yPsychephlax]

....

20:41:50 [yPsychephlax]

yPsychephlax is now known as Spork

20:42:04 [ola]

hi Spork!

20:42:53 [Spork]

Ola hola

20:42:57 [Spork]

doh

20:43:03 [Spork]

proper grammar is essential

20:43:05 [Spork]

Ola, hola!

20:43:23 [Spork]

That's probably why I'm failing so many things

20:43:34 [Spork]

Can't spell, lack of grammar

20:43:34 [ola]

that's better.

20:44:31 [ola]

what did you fail now?

20:45:17 [Spork]

Digital Circtuit design

20:45:22 [markd2]

oof

20:45:26 [markd2]

Circuit :-)

20:45:30 [markd2]

And it's Dijital

20:45:31 [ola]

heh

20:46:41 [Spork]

Goddamn it

20:46:49 [Spork]

I think I'll just go off the hospital roof

20:46:52 [ola]

failures are good - one learns from them...

20:46:55 [Spork]

But they'll probably save me

20:47:22 [Spork]

I'm sorry, I do not believe knowing the difference between a mealy and a moore state diagram will ever be useful

20:48:57 [davb]

thing is you never need to KNOW that stuff, you just need to know when to look in a book to find out.

20:49:23 [Spork]

Right

20:49:49 [Spork]

I mean there are these rare occurences where the planet's existence depends on that...but who really cares

20:50:45 [davb]

heh http://www.esc.edu :)

20:52:06 [markd2]

markd2 has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)

20:52:31 [davb]

* davb starts thinking about drumming up local interest in a LUG

20:54:36 [Spork]

heh

20:55:12 [Spork]

question

20:55:22 [Spork]

Cell phone "arm " type devices to hold your phone in your car

20:55:32 [Spork]

what's they called in eNgLeesh?

20:56:29 [davb]

bracket, thingy, whachamacalit?

20:56:35 [ola]

ear plug?

20:57:02 [Spork]

yeah bracket type thingiemajig

20:58:51 [Spork]

must go get ripped off by my car alarm place

20:58:56 [davb]

heh

20:59:27 [davb]

http://www.crutchfield.com/

20:59:27 [chump]

G: http://www.crutchfield.com/ from davb

20:59:41 [Spork]

no, i already have one installed

20:59:45 [Spork]

the remote is not working right

20:59:52 [davb]

ah, good luck!

20:59:53 [Spork]

well, until I hit it against something

21:00:09 [Spork]

They provide "Lifetime warranty as long as you own the vehicle"

21:00:16 [Spork]

but I don't think they'll extend it to the remotes

21:00:19 [Spork]

those bastiges

21:00:21 [Spork]

bbl

21:00:24 [Spork]

* Spork departs

21:18:44 [markd2]

markd2 (markd@r-41.85.alltel.net) has joined #openacs

21:23:57 [ola]

strange days indeed...! I have logged in to my OACS dev server with "Remember this login" checked. I can get to the index page with "http://_my_hostname_" and "http://127.0.0.1" no problem, but if I type "http://localhost" I get logged out!

21:25:21 [ola]

weird huh?

21:25:34 [davb]

I am not sure how the cookie works. That is what ForceHostP is for, so that you get redirected to the hostname distributing the cookies.

21:25:42 [davb]

That should wake up markd2 :)

21:26:13 [ola]

it's OACS4.

21:26:28 [markd2]

* markd2 hears his /nick

21:26:50 [markd2]

cookies and hostname-based subsites?

21:26:51 [markd2]

I haven't a clue

21:28:28 [davb]

aha.

21:28:55 [davb]

not sure how that works.

21:29:33 [davb]

probably is something in the site-node-map dealie. I think there was a discussion about that on the bboard.

21:31:30 [hazmat]

hazmat has quit ("back to padded room")

21:35:52 [talli]

has anyone noticed that philip's intro to aolserver has been, uhm, scuttled by aD?

21:36:31 [davb]

where?

21:36:35 [davb]

asj?

21:37:01 [markd2]

* markd2 saved off the article he wrote, out of paranoia

21:40:11 [davb]

this? http://www.arsdigita.com/asj/aolserver/introduction-1

21:42:03 [markd2]

the one I wrote. https://arsdigita.com/asj/tuning

21:42:07 [markd2]

er, without the https

21:42:52 [markd2]

looks like philips article

21:42:57 [markd2]

what's different?

21:43:50 [davb]

looks ok to me

21:45:23 [ola]

the link to it from ASJ main page is gone (or I can't find it).

21:45:55 [ola]

no I found it :-)

21:46:03 [davb]

ola: I said the same things :)

21:46:15 [ola]

it was tiny...

21:47:28 [davb]

yes, and the light blue doesn't help.

21:47:50 [ola]

exactly

21:48:37 [davb]

time for me to go home. Later!

21:48:41 [davb]

davb has quit ()

21:55:33 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw disconnects

21:55:48 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw reconnects

22:04:08 [vinod]

vinod (~vinod@207-172-255-241.s1257.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com) has joined #openacs

22:05:27 [hazmat]

hazmat (~chatzilla@66.123.57.58) has joined #openacs

22:30:57 [markd2]

markd2 has quit ("Bork")

22:38:08 [ola]

ola has quit ("changing universes")

22:44:02 [talli]

talli has quit ("Peace & Protection 4.00 FINAL BETA")

23:05:21 [vinod]

vinod has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

23:37:40 [syslogd]

syslogd (proxy@ool-18baa98f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openacs

23:37:46 [syslogd]

Aaaaarg

23:37:48 [syslogd]

what hte hell

23:37:57 [Psychephylax]

oh

23:38:01 [syslogd]

syslogd has quit (Client Quit)

23:57:18 [Psychephylax]

roll call?