00:00:06 uphill both ways? 00:00:19 http://newhome.weblogs.com/directory/11/implementations 00:00:19 I: http://newhome.weblogs.com/directory/11/implementations from jerryasher 00:01:18 argh, he never put mine on there!! :) 00:01:33 I had to write more than once.... 00:02:02 of course. Anyway orginally he said it was generated from the changes.xml file. apparently he had to actually READ it. :) 00:02:03 But anyway, I think it's a good thing to get the OpenACS mentioned in places like this alongside Frontier and Perl. 00:02:15 Very good. 00:02:58 Mine was sending a Netscape UA string. I hacked ns_httppost to send AOLserver 3.3 etc... 00:03:22 Anyway my server was down for a week.... luckily its back up. 00:03:44 Where is your server? (end of a dsl line or hosted somewhere?) 00:03:55 he does say here http://newhome.weblogs.com/stories/storyReader$26 that you should email him somehow 00:04:28 cable now. It was on DSL and I could not get it to respond so I brought it home. Works great. 00:04:37 jerryasher: thanks. 00:04:54 I am not _too_ concerned about it. Too much work to do. 00:05:23 that's for sure. but most of the fun stuff is the stuff you do for yourself. 00:05:27 talli: I didn't say that as an excuse 00:05:33 pity that it rarely pays the bills. 00:05:44 rbm: i was joking. no worries 00:05:56 Oh, none of my stuff pays the bills :) 00:06:28 talli has quit 00:06:36 well! 00:06:40 hazmat has quit 00:06:40 I was just speaking with a client who insists (I agree too) that the only way to shop for clothes 00:07:10 is to make one trip to hong kong or singapore and then six months later to visit paris. 00:07:24 I suspect that is a good strategy. 00:07:26 I agree, but I can't usually make that trip. 00:07:40 turning out gpl'd blogging stuff. 00:07:41 that would be a good strategy, although expensive 00:07:53 no the claim is that it's less expensive than 00:08:03 all your time and money spent at the mall 00:08:12 buying stuff that doesn't fit and wears out too soon 00:08:16 I don't have that many clothes. 00:08:17 and doesn't look good anyway 00:08:17 heh 00:08:19 I am here 00:08:33 :) 00:08:58 ob sexist note: 00:09:12 which *guy* here does have that sort of wardrobe? 00:11:20 If you're coming to California, Rob Morse suggests hitting the bridges doing 70: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/11/05/MN189033.DTL 00:11:50 so you're in the crosshairs less. 00:13:05 heh 00:13:06 Jerry 00:13:11 what part of Cali do you live in? 00:13:33 The warm tasty gun-less one? or the other one 00:13:34 Berkeley 00:13:38 oh cool 00:13:45 Is there anything good to do around there? 00:14:21 everyone here has guns 00:14:28 happiness is a warm gun 00:14:28 oh 00:14:31 then I'm not coming there 00:16:24 if it makes any difference to you you won't be able to see them 00:16:31 heh 00:16:34 I just want a vacation 00:17:43 * rbm apt-get updates 00:17:47 http://www.cnn.com/WEATHER/html/GuaymasMexico.html 00:17:47 J: http://www.cnn.com/WEATHER/html/GuaymasMexico.html from jerryasher 00:19:21 perspectives: in the midst of 4 anthrax deaths, one company caused 51 deaths amongst dialysis users: http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/11/05/baxter.dialysis/index.html 00:23:59 Shit. What do you do when ants march through your pipes? 00:24:09 So they come out the sink 00:24:15 ummm 00:24:20 the come out the sink's emergency drain? 00:24:44 You put on Dave Matthews really loud?. 00:29:42 you need some ant killer. 00:29:59 never had them in the pipes though. 00:30:02 heh 00:30:07 I liked my idea better 00:30:14 thats a good idea anyway. 00:30:29 hehehe 00:30:42 I need to find someone to go to Santo Domingo with me 00:30:57 Or i might have to drag one of my parents with me...I'd rather not go! 00:35:49 Dave, I've tried, I can't find anyone that small. 00:36:37 lol 00:37:01 You need to write a miniaturizer maximizer in C 00:38:20 * Sporkiephylax departs...bbl 00:50:41 jerryasher has quit 01:38:34 davb has quit 01:44:42 jabba_ has joined #openacs 01:46:49 abbaJ has quit 01:47:34 jabba_ has quit 03:04:41 adler has joined #openacs 03:20:22 adler has quit 03:48:22 docwolf has joined #openacs 04:16:38 http://www.anywhereyougo.com/Content.po?name=wap/Fivesteps 04:16:38 A: http://www.anywhereyougo.com/Content.po?name=wap/Fivesteps from Sporkiephylax 04:16:45 A:| wap tutoral 04:16:45 titled item A 04:16:58 A: How to make a WAP website 04:16:58 commented item A 04:56:24 talli has joined #openacs 04:56:44 talli has quit 06:51:14 rzolf has joined #openacs 06:51:59 rzolf has quit 07:02:06 hazmat has joined #openacs 07:02:17 anyone around? 07:04:58 * rbm hides 07:11:18 time for bed. 07:11:18 * rbm heads out 07:26:01 hazmat has quit 08:24:36 jerryasher has joined #openacs 08:25:50 Hey doc, tonight's quantum leap on the sci-fi channel is "Hurricane" - Sam Leaps back into Hurricane Camille! 08:28:49 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: loggy[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by sagan.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for loggy[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])) 08:29:12 loggy has joined #openacs 08:29:12 topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/ 08:29:12 Users on #openacs: loggy jerryasher docwolf Sporkiephylax rbm chump shagster AaronSw 08:29:13 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 12:15:06 jerryasher has quit 13:36:56 markd2 has joined #openacs 13:41:17 * AaronSw reconnects 13:47:25 heh 13:48:23 ? 13:48:29 morning 13:49:40 hiya 13:50:03 demo on Friday 13:50:16 I either get fired, or get an offer =/ 13:50:43 no pressure thre 13:50:48 right 13:52:39 so sleepy 13:52:54 I have another meeting (for school with a professor) but we have nothing! nooothhhhhiiingg! 13:54:08 abbaJ has joined #openacs 14:00:55 hey abbaJ 14:01:06 hi hi hi 14:01:31 hola 14:12:02 I'm going to Santo Domingo ... I hope =) 14:19:05 cool 14:19:08 where's Santo Domingo? 14:19:21 under florida somewhere 14:19:32 ummm...Dominican Republic 14:19:40 cool 14:20:10 yeah I figured, 7.5 years of working my ass off...maybe I should stop for a week :) 14:24:28 time to get up :( 14:24:30 noooooo 14:24:41 * Sporkiephylax fights off the school demons with his pillow 14:28:58 davb has joined #openacs 14:29:19 * Sporkiephylax misses the school demon and smacks dave with his pillow square in the face and knocks him down 14:29:24 oops...Sorry! 14:30:52 good morning to you too! 14:30:58 :) 14:31:05 just trying to fight them bastiges off 14:31:09 but it ain't working 14:38:21 wow! 14:38:31 Shawskank redemption is #2 movie of all times 14:38:44 I've never seen it 14:38:46 what's #1? 14:38:55 Probably some horror like Porky's 14:38:59 lol no 14:39:08 I don't know any famous quotes but let me look one up 14:39:36 and what's the ranking criteria? 14:40:08 Oh heh...this one is probably well known 14:40:22 "I'm gonna make him an offer he cant' refuse" 14:40:32 * davb adds that to his DVD list. 14:40:48 Top 250 movies as voted by our users 14:43:49 i gotta go 14:43:52 check ya guys later 14:44:06 * Sporkiephylax detaches 15:24:35 * AaronSw disconnects 15:26:22 talli has joined #openacs 15:26:30 morning everybody 15:26:45 hiya 15:28:11 hi talli 15:38:48 vinod has joined #openacs 15:38:57 hello vinod 15:39:06 hey dave! 15:39:08 Hey Vinod 15:39:29 markd2! wazzzzup? 15:40:30 have computer prices gone through the roof or what? http://www.amamax.com/amazer.html 15:41:30 oops, looks like they have Sporkiephylax's number problem. 15:43:13 vinod: we meet again 15:43:29 interesting exchange you two are having on the bboard. 15:43:39 i will never be captured! 15:43:51 talli: it's for your own good! 15:43:56 life is good in the asylum 15:44:15 * vinod runs head first into the padded wall 15:48:28 * AaronSw reconnects 15:53:36 i have responded, vinod 15:54:21 vinod: about that link... 15:55:09 i gotta say, that i'm kind pissed. just yesterday i dropped 12 million on a new desktop. if i'd known i could customize my own for less than 10 million, i wouldn't have gone for that dumb special 15:56:14 talli: i think they must be a gov't supplier 15:56:25 do they have hammers, too? 15:57:45 only $34,000. $40,000 if you act now 16:00:07 just got your bboard post - i'm going to have to leave you with the final word, lest i be drawn into a flamefest that will surely take down the entire community (i.e. i can't think of a witty response right now) 16:10:05 k2pts has joined #openacs 16:11:11 hey nkd 16:11:53 hello 16:11:59 hi guys 16:12:09 davb: how's intermedia going? 16:15:02 * AaronSw disconnects 16:16:15 ok, I haven;t looked at it today yet :) 16:17:20 I had an email exchange with Oleg yesterday and he was very pleased to hear that the community is starting using OpenFTS. 16:17:27 If we store most content in the CR it should be easy to build a way to extract the content. 16:18:13 I just want to get away without copying all the content into a table to have it indexed. 16:18:23 yes that's an ugly hack. 16:19:24 Also intermedia has to rebuild the index instead of indexing just one piece of content so making it work with the search contracts will be a little tricky. 16:20:23 yes, that's where openfts is better (I think). 16:20:26 Does search_observer_queue store all the content that needs to be indexed? Which OpenFTS then grabs periodically and adds or removes frm the index as appropriate? 16:20:47 first question: yes, second: not exactly 16:21:11 I am not sure if the intermedia should use that or have its own table of items that are to be included in the index. (that is how it works presently) 16:21:41 search_observer_queue holds all object ids that need indexing. Then the search package will check for the default search engine (i.e. OpenFTS or Intermedia or whatever you are using) 16:21:56 and call it's indexing function through the acs-sc api 16:22:23 Right. That is the easy part. 16:23:00 One question: what does the automatic_and_queries parameter do? 16:23:15 give me a sec and I'll explain 16:23:34 thanks. 16:24:40 automatic_and_queries is mostly used in the ui part in order to print a message (like google) whenever the user includes "and" in his query. 16:25:07 also, openfts only accepts automatic_and_queries (include all words while searching) 16:25:25 Ok. I will have to check the intermedia DOCs to see how it works. 16:25:56 the upcoming tsearch module (pgsql contrib module) provides boolean queries as well but we are still not adapted OpenFTS to use tsearch. This will happen some time next year. 16:26:04 ok davb 16:26:24 thank you very much. I am learning alot! 16:26:35 same here 16:28:09 vinod: how's the response to talli's message going? 16:33:10 k2pts: i've given up. in order to properly respond, i would have to reveal some very dark areas of talli's persona - it's just not a place i want to go ;-) 16:33:20 :) 16:34:01 k2pts: i tried to read that 'contracts' article you posted. it's put me to sleep the past 2 nights. that's heavy stuff 16:34:20 just skip the examples. they are not so much interesting to us 16:34:29 but the introduction and the concept are the same. 16:35:17 that paper, some say (i don't remember the article I'll have to go through the logs), was the precursor of the design patterns (GOF) 16:35:17 got it. i think i understood the concept, but i'll have to read it again (during the daytime) :-) 16:35:24 sure 16:35:35 The tricky part in site-wide-search is that the serach UI code is mixed with the search indexing code. 16:36:14 vinod: Which contracts paper is that? 16:36:54 I found this today: (not what vinod was talking about but...) 16:36:55 http://www.cs.rice.edu/~robby/contract-reading-list/ 16:36:56 B: http://www.cs.rice.edu/~robby/contract-reading-list/ from davb 16:37:05 B:| Contract Reading List 16:37:05 titled item B 16:37:10 that's where the paper is 16:37:20 Oh. cool, what luck! 16:37:35 It's under Related Issues in Software Engineering 16:37:43 Contracts: Specifing Behaviorial Compositions in Object-Oriented Systems 16:37:47 http://www.cs.rice.edu/~robby/contract-reading-list/ec900169.pdf 16:37:47 C: http://www.cs.rice.edu/~robby/contract-reading-list/ec900169.pdf from vinod 16:38:15 C:| Contracts: Specifying Behavioral Compositions in Object-Oriented Systems 16:38:15 titled item C 16:39:16 i got about two sentences through the abstract and fell asleep. 16:39:22 in fact, i'm sleeping right now... 16:39:25 what? no links to Bertrand Meyer? 16:40:15 when I posted this on the forums. Someone mentioned that Eiffel had contracts since the 1980s. Did anyone ever used Eiffel. 16:40:25 I've never used it 16:40:27 * vinod shakes talli awake 16:40:35 but I've read his stuff from way-back-when 16:45:26 I started acs-sc as a first step towards a RAD tool. I was reading "The timeless way of building" by Cristopher Alexander at the time and I was influenced a lot. hazmat and I had some discussions over the RAD issue lately and it's probably feasible. However I am a bit pursuing chimaera believing that we can have a completely general package that given a context (OpenACS architecture) and design patterns, the user will only have to specify the r 16:45:27 equirements, the page-flow and workflows in order to get his/her package. 16:48:55 Here is what I need for SWS unless I become an amzing programmer: a way for content that is NOT in the CR to register a pl/sql proc to deliver the content of its items to sws. and a way for the sws index pl/sql proc to discover the correct pl/sql proc based on the content_type. 16:49:30 The _really_ tricky part is to somehow make it upgradable from ACS 4.2 to OpenACS 4/Oracle. 16:50:29 davb: first you will have to make sure that use the call to intermedia__index (or whatever you will name the implementation for the respective operation in the FtsEngineDriver contract). 16:50:44 * markd2 contracts back into his shell 16:53:54 Right. Intermedia is the tricky part. I can have a table of object ids to be searched. Then I can have ONE pl/sql proc that is called for every row in that table to generate the content to be indexed. 16:57:35 davb has quit 16:59:00 davb has joined #openacs 16:59:32 wb 17:00:07 thanks 17:10:04 [GlobalApology] We're about to split briefly pending the return of services. 17:10:14 rbm has quit 17:10:14 AaronSw has quit 17:10:23 AaronSw has joined #openacs 17:10:23 rbm has joined #openacs 17:17:07 http://www.terapin-mine.com/terapin/start-product.htm 17:17:07 D: http://www.terapin-mine.com/terapin/start-product.htm from davb 17:17:21 D:| Terapin-Mine digital storage device 17:17:21 titled item D 17:17:43 D: 10GB portable storage, plays MP3s, USB, 10mb ethernet 17:17:43 commented item D 17:17:58 D: can store photos, audio, data 17:17:58 commented item D 17:18:49 D: $599 (woah) 17:18:49 commented item D 17:20:33 wow. that page completely locks up my browser 17:25:33 ack 17:26:50 Anyway, I think this space will soon be full of lots of competition. 17:27:21 I would love a nice litte device that I could download pictures from my camara, store data, and play music. It has video out and a PCMCIA slot. 17:27:35 it also can send email. 17:34:15 Wow. I am on the NYS page and it loads 3 HUGE graphics so you can choose which page you want: 17:34:19 1024x768 17:34:22 800x600 17:34:26 or TEXT-ONLY. 17:34:40 You would be dead before that page loads if you are on dial up. 17:35:02 It _looks_ cool though. just completely useless. 17:36:08 also the graphics would never fit in a 640x480 window, you'd have to scroll horizontally. 17:37:21 the also have this horizontally scrolling graphic that makes me dizzy. 17:37:40 If you were on dial=-up it would be faster to drive to the office then download this stuff. 17:38:42 heh 17:40:37 sorry, I just know the resources they are putting into this, its scary. 17:42:42 is this your "work" site? 17:47:16 no, I won't reveal out site :) 17:47:30 Everyone asks my advice, but noone listens to me. 17:47:56 haha - sounds familiar 17:48:08 I need to be here a little longer before I can rebuild it. Although they are interested in online education, so I might be able to slip some .LRN in here eventually. 17:51:04 davb: what was that? 17:51:07 * markd2 wasn't listening 17:51:49 heh. wackiness on the New York State home page. 17:51:54 davb: talk softer, so we don't wake the adults 17:53:10 * markd2 mutters about how things were better in the old days 17:53:42 lol 17:54:15 markd2: no - we can't talk about that unless docwolf steps in 17:55:03 arrrr... the good doctors are teaming up again, are they? 17:56:28 it's the secret part of the hippocratic oath - 1) do no harm 2) team up with other MDs to screw everyone else 3) #2 may supercede #1 as needed 17:58:35 heh 18:00:15 anybody want to see some toddler pictures of vinod bathing - in the nude?! 18:00:28 adler has joined #openacs 18:00:32 nice try - everyone knows that I never take baths 18:00:53 hey adler 18:00:57 hi adler 18:00:58 just the man i wanted to speak with 18:01:23 and i want to make it very clear that vinod has never been, and never will be, that man 18:01:44 hey dudes 18:03:05 hey adler 18:03:08 hiya 18:03:13 talli and vinod are having another spat 18:03:14 talli: you wound me deeply 18:03:32 he started it 18:04:24 this is one for the annals of the openacs irclog 18:04:28 and i will finish it! with a stake to the infidel's heart! 18:04:37 mmm.. steak... 18:05:35 * vinod is getting hungry 18:06:06 [GlobalNotice] Hi all. There may be a couple of splits, restarting services 18:06:22 rbm has quit 18:06:22 AaronSw has quit 18:06:36 AaronSw has joined #openacs 18:06:36 rbm has joined #openacs 18:07:04 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 18:08:34 rbm has quit 18:16:08 docwolf has quit 18:16:12 adler has quit 18:18:29 adler has joined #openacs 18:31:29 hazmat has joined #openacs 18:33:48 hallo world 18:34:21 hi hazmat 18:34:35 hi k2pts 18:35:15 hey hazmat 18:35:23 hi vinod 18:35:51 vinod : is this the time of the week where we harrass rbm for the doc roadmap? 18:36:13 hahahah! 18:36:22 is rbm here for that? 18:36:25 adler: yes, but we can also bug talli as he's taken on responsibility too (sucker) 18:36:27 i wish he was 18:36:45 i've been bugging him for the past couple of weeks 18:36:59 making steady progress... we have some ideas but rbm's been overloaded with school 18:37:03 talli: i say we promote adler as well for this purpose 18:37:04 it will happen soon, though 18:37:15 i've been debating whether or not to use the cr, because i'm not really sure if i understand it completely.... one question the cr gets laid out like a virtual fs, but are there functions to identify an objects path in the vfs/cr? 18:37:23 sounds good. adler, do you have a life we can squeeze? 18:38:33 that's not all I have 18:38:39 hazmat: i think so - i haven't looked in depth 18:39:03 hazmat: there is a function - content_item.get_path that gets a path given a item_id and folder_id 18:40:08 ok... thanks vinod. i've noticed most packages just create a single folder and filter based on package id. 18:40:15 * AaronSw reconnects 18:40:20 i wish I had a clue about where rbm has left off and what the roadmap needs to provide. I'm not the most qualified, but I think I can become so 18:41:57 are keywords/categorizations associated in the same vfs heirarchy? do they serve as containers for content or just symlinked? has anyone tried using that feature of the cr? 18:42:16 sorry, i'm full of newbie questions today :) 18:42:40 aegrumet has joined #openacs 18:42:52 hazmat: well, they would be newbie questions, except most of us don't know the answer either :-) 18:43:07 hazmat: i think davb has been working with the keywords 18:44:43 hmm...i was afraid of that. i've been looking at the cr and trying to figure out what i can do with it from the documentation, it looks useful, but i'm scared of both the conceptual overhead and the performance overhead, in the end i'm not what the comparitive advantage is of using the cr.. 18:44:43 markd2 has quit 18:44:54 it looks like there is a table that links item_id's to keyword_id's (cr_item_keyword_map) 18:45:14 etp does some fairly cool things with the cr, it looks like it registers all of its content types via tcl. 18:55:21 adler has quit 18:59:12 * AaronSw disconnects 18:59:57 i think davb has been working on adding keywords into etp. i haven't played with etp yet 19:00:17 its pretty cool 19:00:24 adler has joined #openacs 19:00:37 hazmat: that would be a good document to have "when and when not to use the CR." 19:00:57 k2pts is giving me a tour of search, which i'll write up and post to the new-file-storage, thanks k2pts. 19:01:25 cool! 19:04:27 np 19:05:03 hazmat: k2pts sent me your docs for acs-sc. "i really dug hitchiker's guide to acs-sc" 19:05:45 inspired by the oracle reference guide's hitchikers guide to the o. data dict. 19:05:54 oracle has that huh? 19:06:11 i've proposed that we make "hitchiker's guide to acs-X" a standard in the docs 19:06:29 the oracle reference book, has a chapter named the hitchiker's guide to the oracle data dictionary :) 19:07:27 i auto generated the docbook version from the text version, so i'm not sure if its 100% compliant. the html, docbook, and text versions are in cvs for acs-sc. 19:08:18 so talli when do you think its a good idea to use the cr? 19:08:46 ummm... when you're writing words that require both the letters "c" and "r"? 19:08:59 once again, i throw up my hands to remind all that i am not a programmer. yet. 19:09:15 i hope to try and install OpenACS someday soon 19:09:28 oh... ok.. 19:10:01 but i was under the impression that we always wanted to use CR to enable SWS. 19:10:02 i didn't know that. 19:10:05 is that wrong? 19:10:17 you can get search without using the cr 19:10:20 i have an engineering degree, but i have never enjoyed programming 19:10:29 infidel 19:10:32 so i understand the terms, but i don't get in the nitty gritty 19:11:39 right. as i understand acs-sc, you can pick and choose which services you want to hook up data to. so having everything in the CR may no longer be necessary? 19:12:01 the biggest thing seems to be the versioning and categorization. but i'm can't decide if its worth the potential overhead, since all content basically (minus real fs storage, and extended attribute storage) gets stored in one big honking table cr_revisions. 19:12:18 that is seriously nasty. 19:12:44 i guess te CR has yet to be scalability tested. it could wilt under gigs of data 19:12:55 talli: when you install oacs, you may want to avoid to vinod's install documentation, less you wish to enflame the holy war 19:13:16 vinod didn't write that 19:13:40 should that stop me from blaming him? 19:13:59 yeah - talli wrote it - blame him 19:14:00 he stole it from a twelve year old lithuanian prodigy who he keeps in his cellar to port all of the ACS code 19:14:13 talli: he's almost 13 19:14:20 see!!!!! 19:14:32 bastard 19:15:18 vinod: i think thats a good outlook re acs-sc overcoming cr, but the cr is still used by a lot of stuff, and can be quite useful, i'm just not sure it makes sense yet... i guess i just want to talk to someone who is gung ho on the cr :) 19:16:17 i can't read the openacs cvs howto http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/one-file-redirect-latest?file_id=100 19:16:42 hazmat: i would post something to the bboards. i know that donb has been championing the CR in order to facilitate SWS 19:16:45