IRC log of openacs on 2001-11-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:06 [davb]
uphill both ways?
00:00:19 [jerryasher]
http://newhome.weblogs.com/directory/11/implementations
00:00:19 [chump]
I: http://newhome.weblogs.com/directory/11/implementations from jerryasher
00:01:18 [davb]
argh, he never put mine on there!! :)
00:01:33 [jerryasher]
I had to write more than once....
00:02:02 [davb]
of course. Anyway orginally he said it was generated from the changes.xml file. apparently he had to actually READ it. :)
00:02:03 [jerryasher]
But anyway, I think it's a good thing to get the OpenACS mentioned in places like this alongside Frontier and Perl.
00:02:15 [davb]
Very good.
00:02:58 [davb]
Mine was sending a Netscape UA string. I hacked ns_httppost to send AOLserver 3.3 etc...
00:03:22 [davb]
Anyway my server was down for a week.... luckily its back up.
00:03:44 [jerryasher]
Where is your server? (end of a dsl line or hosted somewhere?)
00:03:55 [jerryasher]
he does say here http://newhome.weblogs.com/stories/storyReader$26 that you should email him somehow
00:04:28 [davb]
cable now. It was on DSL and I could not get it to respond so I brought it home. Works great.
00:04:37 [davb]
jerryasher: thanks.
00:04:54 [davb]
I am not _too_ concerned about it. Too much work to do.
00:05:23 [jerryasher]
that's for sure. but most of the fun stuff is the stuff you do for yourself.
00:05:27 [rbm]
talli: I didn't say that as an excuse
00:05:33 [jerryasher]
pity that it rarely pays the bills.
00:05:44 [talli]
rbm: i was joking. no worries
00:05:56 [davb]
Oh, none of my stuff pays the bills :)
00:06:28 [talli]
talli has quit
00:06:36 [davb]
well!
00:06:40 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit
00:06:40 [jerryasher]
I was just speaking with a client who insists (I agree too) that the only way to shop for clothes
00:07:10 [jerryasher]
is to make one trip to hong kong or singapore and then six months later to visit paris.
00:07:24 [davb]
I suspect that is a good strategy.
00:07:26 [jerryasher]
I agree, but I can't usually make that trip.
00:07:40 [jerryasher]
turning out gpl'd blogging stuff.
00:07:41 [rbm]
that would be a good strategy, although expensive
00:07:53 [jerryasher]
no the claim is that it's less expensive than
00:08:03 [jerryasher]
all your time and money spent at the mall
00:08:12 [jerryasher]
buying stuff that doesn't fit and wears out too soon
00:08:16 [davb]
I don't have that many clothes.
00:08:17 [jerryasher]
and doesn't look good anyway
00:08:17 [Sporkiephylax]
heh
00:08:19 [Sporkiephylax]
I am here
00:08:33 [Sporkiephylax]
:)
00:08:58 [jerryasher]
ob sexist note:
00:09:12 [jerryasher]
which *guy* here does have that sort of wardrobe?
00:11:20 [jerryasher]
If you're coming to California, Rob Morse suggests hitting the bridges doing 70: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/11/05/MN189033.DTL
00:11:50 [jerryasher]
so you're in the crosshairs less.
00:13:05 [Sporkiephylax]
heh
00:13:06 [Sporkiephylax]
Jerry
00:13:11 [Sporkiephylax]
what part of Cali do you live in?
00:13:33 [Sporkiephylax]
The warm tasty gun-less one? or the other one
00:13:34 [jerryasher]
Berkeley
00:13:38 [Sporkiephylax]
oh cool
00:13:45 [Sporkiephylax]
Is there anything good to do around there?
00:14:21 [jerryasher]
everyone here has guns
00:14:28 [jerryasher]
happiness is a warm gun
00:14:28 [Sporkiephylax]
oh
00:14:31 [Sporkiephylax]
then I'm not coming there
00:16:24 [jerryasher]
if it makes any difference to you you won't be able to see them
00:16:31 [Sporkiephylax]
heh
00:16:34 [Sporkiephylax]
I just want a vacation
00:17:43 [rbm]
* rbm apt-get updates
00:17:47 [jerryasher]
http://www.cnn.com/WEATHER/html/GuaymasMexico.html
00:17:47 [chump]
J: http://www.cnn.com/WEATHER/html/GuaymasMexico.html from jerryasher
00:19:21 [jerryasher]
perspectives: in the midst of 4 anthrax deaths, one company caused 51 deaths amongst dialysis users: http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/11/05/baxter.dialysis/index.html
00:23:59 [jerryasher]
Shit. What do you do when ants march through your pipes?
00:24:09 [jerryasher]
So they come out the sink
00:24:15 [Sporkiephylax]
ummm
00:24:20 [jerryasher]
the come out the sink's emergency drain?
00:24:44 [Sporkiephylax]
You put on Dave Matthews really loud?.
00:29:42 [davb]
you need some ant killer.
00:29:59 [davb]
never had them in the pipes though.
00:30:02 [Sporkiephylax]
heh
00:30:07 [Sporkiephylax]
I liked my idea better
00:30:14 [davb]
thats a good idea anyway.
00:30:29 [Sporkiephylax]
hehehe
00:30:42 [Sporkiephylax]
I need to find someone to go to Santo Domingo with me
00:30:57 [Sporkiephylax]
Or i might have to drag one of my parents with me...I'd rather not go!
00:35:49 [jerryasher]
Dave, I've tried, I can't find anyone that small.
00:36:37 [Sporkiephylax]
lol
00:37:01 [Sporkiephylax]
You need to write a miniaturizer maximizer in C
00:38:20 [Sporkiephylax]
* Sporkiephylax departs...bbl
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04:16:38 [Sporkiephylax]
http://www.anywhereyougo.com/Content.po?name=wap/Fivesteps
04:16:38 [chump]
A: http://www.anywhereyougo.com/Content.po?name=wap/Fivesteps from Sporkiephylax
04:16:45 [Sporkiephylax]
A:| wap tutoral
04:16:45 [chump]
titled item A
04:16:58 [Sporkiephylax]
A: How to make a WAP website
04:16:58 [chump]
commented item A
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07:02:17 [hazmat]
anyone around?
07:04:58 [rbm]
* rbm hides
07:11:18 [rbm]
time for bed.
07:11:18 [rbm]
* rbm heads out
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08:25:50 [jerryasher]
Hey doc, tonight's quantum leap on the sci-fi channel is "Hurricane" - Sam Leaps back into Hurricane Camille!
08:28:49 [irc.openprojects.net]
Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: loggy[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net] by sagan.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for loggy[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net]))
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08:29:12 [asimov.openprojects.net]
topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/
08:29:12 [asimov.openprojects.net]
Users on #openacs: loggy jerryasher docwolf Sporkiephylax rbm chump shagster AaronSw
08:29:13 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
12:15:06 [jerryasher]
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* AaronSw reconnects
13:47:25 [Sporkiephylax]
heh
13:48:23 [markd2]
?
13:48:29 [Sporkiephylax]
morning
13:49:40 [markd2]
hiya
13:50:03 [Sporkiephylax]
demo on Friday
13:50:16 [Sporkiephylax]
I either get fired, or get an offer =/
13:50:43 [markd2]
no pressure thre
13:50:48 [Sporkiephylax]
right
13:52:39 [Sporkiephylax]
so sleepy
13:52:54 [Sporkiephylax]
I have another meeting (for school with a professor) but we have nothing! nooothhhhhiiingg!
13:54:08 [abbaJ]
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14:00:55 [markd2]
hey abbaJ
14:01:06 [abbaJ]
hi hi hi
14:01:31 [Sporkiephylax]
hola
14:12:02 [Sporkiephylax]
I'm going to Santo Domingo ... I hope =)
14:19:05 [markd2]
cool
14:19:08 [markd2]
where's Santo Domingo?
14:19:21 [Sporkiephylax]
under florida somewhere
14:19:32 [Sporkiephylax]
ummm...Dominican Republic
14:19:40 [markd2]
cool
14:20:10 [Sporkiephylax]
yeah I figured, 7.5 years of working my ass off...maybe I should stop for a week :)
14:24:28 [Sporkiephylax]
time to get up :(
14:24:30 [Sporkiephylax]
noooooo
14:24:41 [Sporkiephylax]
* Sporkiephylax fights off the school demons with his pillow
14:28:58 [davb]
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14:29:19 [Sporkiephylax]
* Sporkiephylax misses the school demon and smacks dave with his pillow square in the face and knocks him down
14:29:24 [Sporkiephylax]
oops...Sorry!
14:30:52 [davb]
good morning to you too!
14:30:58 [Sporkiephylax]
:)
14:31:05 [Sporkiephylax]
just trying to fight them bastiges off
14:31:09 [Sporkiephylax]
but it ain't working
14:38:21 [Sporkiephylax]
wow!
14:38:31 [Sporkiephylax]
Shawskank redemption is #2 movie of all times
14:38:44 [markd2]
I've never seen it
14:38:46 [markd2]
what's #1?
14:38:55 [markd2]
Probably some horror like Porky's
14:38:59 [Sporkiephylax]
lol no
14:39:08 [Sporkiephylax]
I don't know any famous quotes but let me look one up
14:39:36 [markd2]
and what's the ranking criteria?
14:40:08 [Sporkiephylax]
Oh heh...this one is probably well known
14:40:22 [Sporkiephylax]
"I'm gonna make him an offer he cant' refuse"
14:40:32 [davb]
* davb adds that to his DVD list.
14:40:48 [Sporkiephylax]
Top 250 movies as voted by our users
14:43:49 [Sporkiephylax]
i gotta go
14:43:52 [Sporkiephylax]
check ya guys later
14:44:06 [Sporkiephylax]
* Sporkiephylax detaches
15:24:35 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
15:26:22 [talli]
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15:26:30 [talli]
morning everybody
15:26:45 [markd2]
hiya
15:28:11 [davb]
hi talli
15:38:48 [vinod]
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15:38:57 [davb]
hello vinod
15:39:06 [vinod]
hey dave!
15:39:08 [markd2]
Hey Vinod
15:39:29 [vinod]
markd2! wazzzzup?
15:40:30 [vinod]
have computer prices gone through the roof or what? http://www.amamax.com/amazer.html
15:41:30 [davb]
oops, looks like they have Sporkiephylax's number problem.
15:43:13 [talli]
vinod: we meet again
15:43:29 [davb]
interesting exchange you two are having on the bboard.
15:43:39 [talli]
i will never be captured!
15:43:51 [vinod]
talli: it's for your own good!
15:43:56 [vinod]
life is good in the asylum
15:44:15 [vinod]
* vinod runs head first into the padded wall
15:48:28 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
15:53:36 [talli]
i have responded, vinod
15:54:21 [talli]
vinod: about that link...
15:55:09 [talli]
i gotta say, that i'm kind pissed. just yesterday i dropped 12 million on a new desktop. if i'd known i could customize my own for less than 10 million, i wouldn't have gone for that dumb special
15:56:14 [vinod]
talli: i think they must be a gov't supplier
15:56:25 [talli]
do they have hammers, too?
15:57:45 [vinod]
only $34,000. $40,000 if you act now
16:00:07 [vinod]
just got your bboard post - i'm going to have to leave you with the final word, lest i be drawn into a flamefest that will surely take down the entire community (i.e. i can't think of a witty response right now)
16:10:05 [k2pts]
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16:11:11 [talli]
hey nkd
16:11:53 [davb]
hello
16:11:59 [k2pts]
hi guys
16:12:09 [k2pts]
davb: how's intermedia going?
16:15:02 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
16:16:15 [davb]
ok, I haven;t looked at it today yet :)
16:17:20 [k2pts]
I had an email exchange with Oleg yesterday and he was very pleased to hear that the community is starting using OpenFTS.
16:17:27 [davb]
If we store most content in the CR it should be easy to build a way to extract the content.
16:18:13 [davb]
I just want to get away without copying all the content into a table to have it indexed.
16:18:23 [k2pts]
yes that's an ugly hack.
16:19:24 [davb]
Also intermedia has to rebuild the index instead of indexing just one piece of content so making it work with the search contracts will be a little tricky.
16:20:23 [k2pts]
yes, that's where openfts is better (I think).
16:20:26 [davb]
Does search_observer_queue store all the content that needs to be indexed? Which OpenFTS then grabs periodically and adds or removes frm the index as appropriate?
16:20:47 [k2pts]
first question: yes, second: not exactly
16:21:11 [davb]
I am not sure if the intermedia should use that or have its own table of items that are to be included in the index. (that is how it works presently)
16:21:41 [k2pts]
search_observer_queue holds all object ids that need indexing. Then the search package will check for the default search engine (i.e. OpenFTS or Intermedia or whatever you are using)
16:21:56 [k2pts]
and call it's indexing function through the acs-sc api
16:22:23 [davb]
Right. That is the easy part.
16:23:00 [davb]
One question: what does the automatic_and_queries parameter do?
16:23:15 [k2pts]
give me a sec and I'll explain
16:23:34 [davb]
thanks.
16:24:40 [k2pts]
automatic_and_queries is mostly used in the ui part in order to print a message (like google) whenever the user includes "and" in his query.
16:25:07 [k2pts]
also, openfts only accepts automatic_and_queries (include all words while searching)
16:25:25 [davb]
Ok. I will have to check the intermedia DOCs to see how it works.
16:25:56 [k2pts]
the upcoming tsearch module (pgsql contrib module) provides boolean queries as well but we are still not adapted OpenFTS to use tsearch. This will happen some time next year.
16:26:04 [k2pts]
ok davb
16:26:24 [davb]
thank you very much. I am learning alot!
16:26:35 [k2pts]
same here
16:28:09 [k2pts]
vinod: how's the response to talli's message going?
16:33:10 [vinod]
k2pts: i've given up. in order to properly respond, i would have to reveal some very dark areas of talli's persona - it's just not a place i want to go ;-)
16:33:20 [k2pts]
:)
16:34:01 [vinod]
k2pts: i tried to read that 'contracts' article you posted. it's put me to sleep the past 2 nights. that's heavy stuff
16:34:20 [k2pts]
just skip the examples. they are not so much interesting to us
16:34:29 [k2pts]
but the introduction and the concept are the same.
16:35:17 [k2pts]
that paper, some say (i don't remember the article I'll have to go through the logs), was the precursor of the design patterns (GOF)
16:35:17 [vinod]
got it. i think i understood the concept, but i'll have to read it again (during the daytime) :-)
16:35:24 [k2pts]
sure
16:35:35 [davb]
The tricky part in site-wide-search is that the serach UI code is mixed with the search indexing code.
16:36:14 [markd2]
vinod: Which contracts paper is that?
16:36:54 [davb]
I found this today: (not what vinod was talking about but...)
16:36:55 [davb]
http://www.cs.rice.edu/~robby/contract-reading-list/
16:36:56 [chump]
B: http://www.cs.rice.edu/~robby/contract-reading-list/ from davb
16:37:05 [davb]
B:| Contract Reading List
16:37:05 [chump]
titled item B
16:37:10 [k2pts]
that's where the paper is
16:37:20 [davb]
Oh. cool, what luck!
16:37:35 [k2pts]
It's under Related Issues in Software Engineering
16:37:43 [k2pts]
Contracts: Specifing Behaviorial Compositions in Object-Oriented Systems
16:37:47 [vinod]
http://www.cs.rice.edu/~robby/contract-reading-list/ec900169.pdf
16:37:47 [chump]
C: http://www.cs.rice.edu/~robby/contract-reading-list/ec900169.pdf from vinod
16:38:15 [vinod]
C:| Contracts: Specifying Behavioral Compositions in Object-Oriented Systems
16:38:15 [chump]
titled item C
16:39:16 [talli]
i got about two sentences through the abstract and fell asleep.
16:39:22 [talli]
in fact, i'm sleeping right now...
16:39:25 [markd2]
what? no links to Bertrand Meyer?
16:40:15 [k2pts]
when I posted this on the forums. Someone mentioned that Eiffel had contracts since the 1980s. Did anyone ever used Eiffel.
16:40:25 [markd2]
I've never used it
16:40:27 [vinod]
* vinod shakes talli awake
16:40:35 [markd2]
but I've read his stuff from way-back-when
16:45:26 [k2pts]
I started acs-sc as a first step towards a RAD tool. I was reading "The timeless way of building" by Cristopher Alexander at the time and I was influenced a lot. hazmat and I had some discussions over the RAD issue lately and it's probably feasible. However I am a bit pursuing chimaera believing that we can have a completely general package that given a context (OpenACS architecture) and design patterns, the user will only have to specify the r
16:45:27 [k2pts]
equirements, the page-flow and workflows in order to get his/her package.
16:48:55 [davb]
Here is what I need for SWS unless I become an amzing programmer: a way for content that is NOT in the CR to register a pl/sql proc to deliver the content of its items to sws. and a way for the sws index pl/sql proc to discover the correct pl/sql proc based on the content_type.
16:49:30 [davb]
The _really_ tricky part is to somehow make it upgradable from ACS 4.2 to OpenACS 4/Oracle.
16:50:29 [k2pts]
davb: first you will have to make sure that use the call to intermedia__index (or whatever you will name the implementation for the respective operation in the FtsEngineDriver contract).
16:50:44 [markd2]
* markd2 contracts back into his shell
16:53:54 [davb]
Right. Intermedia is the tricky part. I can have a table of object ids to be searched. Then I can have ONE pl/sql proc that is called for every row in that table to generate the content to be indexed.
16:57:35 [davb]
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16:59:32 [k2pts]
wb
17:00:07 [davb]
thanks
17:10:04 [cdlu]
[GlobalApology] We're about to split briefly pending the return of services.
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17:17:07 [davb]
http://www.terapin-mine.com/terapin/start-product.htm
17:17:07 [chump]
D: http://www.terapin-mine.com/terapin/start-product.htm from davb
17:17:21 [davb]
D:| Terapin-Mine digital storage device
17:17:21 [chump]
titled item D
17:17:43 [davb]
D: 10GB portable storage, plays MP3s, USB, 10mb ethernet
17:17:43 [chump]
commented item D
17:17:58 [davb]
D: can store photos, audio, data
17:17:58 [chump]
commented item D
17:18:49 [davb]
D: $599 (woah)
17:18:49 [chump]
commented item D
17:20:33 [markd2]
wow. that page completely locks up my browser
17:25:33 [davb]
ack
17:26:50 [davb]
Anyway, I think this space will soon be full of lots of competition.
17:27:21 [davb]
I would love a nice litte device that I could download pictures from my camara, store data, and play music. It has video out and a PCMCIA slot.
17:27:35 [davb]
it also can send email.
17:34:15 [davb]
Wow. I am on the NYS page and it loads 3 HUGE graphics so you can choose which page you want:
17:34:19 [davb]
1024x768
17:34:22 [davb]
800x600
17:34:26 [davb]
or TEXT-ONLY.
17:34:40 [davb]
You would be dead before that page loads if you are on dial up.
17:35:02 [davb]
It _looks_ cool though. just completely useless.
17:36:08 [davb]
also the graphics would never fit in a 640x480 window, you'd have to scroll horizontally.
17:37:21 [davb]
the also have this horizontally scrolling graphic that makes me dizzy.
17:37:40 [davb]
If you were on dial=-up it would be faster to drive to the office then download this stuff.
17:38:42 [vinod]
heh
17:40:37 [davb]
sorry, I just know the resources they are putting into this, its scary.
17:42:42 [vinod]
is this your "work" site?
17:47:16 [davb]
no, I won't reveal out site :)
17:47:30 [davb]
Everyone asks my advice, but noone listens to me.
17:47:56 [vinod]
haha - sounds familiar
17:48:08 [davb]
I need to be here a little longer before I can rebuild it. Although they are interested in online education, so I might be able to slip some .LRN in here eventually.
17:51:04 [markd2]
davb: what was that?
17:51:07 [markd2]
* markd2 wasn't listening
17:51:49 [davb]
heh. wackiness on the New York State home page.
17:51:54 [vinod]
davb: talk softer, so we don't wake the adults
17:53:10 [markd2]
* markd2 mutters about how things were better in the old days
17:53:42 [vinod]
lol
17:54:15 [vinod]
markd2: no - we can't talk about that unless docwolf steps in
17:55:03 [talli]
arrrr... the good doctors are teaming up again, are they?
17:56:28 [vinod]
it's the secret part of the hippocratic oath - 1) do no harm 2) team up with other MDs to screw everyone else 3) #2 may supercede #1 as needed
17:58:35 [markd2]
heh
18:00:15 [talli]
anybody want to see some toddler pictures of vinod bathing - in the nude?!
18:00:28 [adler]
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18:00:32 [vinod]
nice try - everyone knows that I never take baths
18:00:53 [talli]
hey adler
18:00:57 [davb]
hi adler
18:00:58 [talli]
just the man i wanted to speak with
18:01:23 [talli]
and i want to make it very clear that vinod has never been, and never will be, that man
18:01:44 [adler]
hey dudes
18:03:05 [vinod]
hey adler
18:03:08 [markd2]
hiya
18:03:13 [markd2]
talli and vinod are having another spat
18:03:14 [vinod]
talli: you wound me deeply
18:03:32 [vinod]
he started it
18:04:24 [adler]
this is one for the annals of the openacs irclog
18:04:28 [talli]
and i will finish it! with a stake to the infidel's heart!
18:04:37 [markd2]
mmm.. steak...
18:05:35 [vinod]
* vinod is getting hungry
18:06:06 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. There may be a couple of splits, restarting services
18:06:22 [rbm]
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18:07:04 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
18:08:34 [rbm]
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18:33:48 [hazmat]
hallo world
18:34:21 [k2pts]
hi hazmat
18:34:35 [hazmat]
hi k2pts
18:35:15 [vinod]
hey hazmat
18:35:23 [hazmat]
hi vinod
18:35:51 [adler]
vinod : is this the time of the week where we harrass rbm for the doc roadmap?
18:36:13 [talli]
hahahah!
18:36:22 [talli]
is rbm here for that?
18:36:25 [vinod]
adler: yes, but we can also bug talli as he's taken on responsibility too (sucker)
18:36:27 [talli]
i wish he was
18:36:45 [talli]
i've been bugging him for the past couple of weeks
18:36:59 [talli]
making steady progress... we have some ideas but rbm's been overloaded with school
18:37:03 [vinod]
talli: i say we promote adler as well for this purpose
18:37:04 [talli]
it will happen soon, though
18:37:15 [hazmat]
i've been debating whether or not to use the cr, because i'm not really sure if i understand it completely.... one question the cr gets laid out like a virtual fs, but are there functions to identify an objects path in the vfs/cr?
18:37:23 [talli]
sounds good. adler, do you have a life we can squeeze?
18:38:33 [adler]
that's not all I have
18:38:39 [vinod]
hazmat: i think so - i haven't looked in depth
18:39:03 [vinod]
hazmat: there is a function - content_item.get_path that gets a path given a item_id and folder_id
18:40:08 [hazmat]
ok... thanks vinod. i've noticed most packages just create a single folder and filter based on package id.
18:40:15 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
18:40:20 [adler]
i wish I had a clue about where rbm has left off and what the roadmap needs to provide. I'm not the most qualified, but I think I can become so
18:41:57 [hazmat]
are keywords/categorizations associated in the same vfs heirarchy? do they serve as containers for content or just symlinked? has anyone tried using that feature of the cr?
18:42:16 [hazmat]
sorry, i'm full of newbie questions today :)
18:42:40 [aegrumet]
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18:42:52 [vinod]
hazmat: well, they would be newbie questions, except most of us don't know the answer either :-)
18:43:07 [vinod]
hazmat: i think davb has been working with the keywords
18:44:43 [hazmat]
hmm...i was afraid of that. i've been looking at the cr and trying to figure out what i can do with it from the documentation, it looks useful, but i'm scared of both the conceptual overhead and the performance overhead, in the end i'm not what the comparitive advantage is of using the cr..
18:44:43 [markd2]
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18:44:54 [vinod]
it looks like there is a table that links item_id's to keyword_id's (cr_item_keyword_map)
18:45:14 [hazmat]
etp does some fairly cool things with the cr, it looks like it registers all of its content types via tcl.
18:55:21 [adler]
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* AaronSw disconnects
18:59:57 [vinod]
i think davb has been working on adding keywords into etp. i haven't played with etp yet
19:00:17 [hazmat]
its pretty cool
19:00:24 [adler]
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19:00:37 [vinod]
hazmat: that would be a good document to have "when and when not to use the CR."
19:00:57 [hazmat]
k2pts is giving me a tour of search, which i'll write up and post to the new-file-storage, thanks k2pts.
19:01:25 [vinod]
cool!
19:04:27 [k2pts]
np
19:05:03 [talli]
hazmat: k2pts sent me your docs for acs-sc. "i really dug hitchiker's guide to acs-sc"
19:05:45 [hazmat]
inspired by the oracle reference guide's hitchikers guide to the o. data dict.
19:05:54 [talli]
oracle has that huh?
19:06:11 [talli]
i've proposed that we make "hitchiker's guide to acs-X" a standard in the docs
19:06:29 [hazmat]
the oracle reference book, has a chapter named the hitchiker's guide to the oracle data dictionary :)
19:07:27 [hazmat]
i auto generated the docbook version from the text version, so i'm not sure if its 100% compliant. the html, docbook, and text versions are in cvs for acs-sc.
19:08:18 [hazmat]
so talli when do you think its a good idea to use the cr?
19:08:46 [talli]
ummm... when you're writing words that require both the letters "c" and "r"?
19:08:59 [talli]
once again, i throw up my hands to remind all that i am not a programmer. yet.
19:09:15 [talli]
i hope to try and install OpenACS someday soon
19:09:28 [hazmat]
oh... ok..
19:10:01 [talli]
but i was under the impression that we always wanted to use CR to enable SWS.
19:10:02 [hazmat]
i didn't know that.
19:10:05 [talli]
is that wrong?
19:10:17 [hazmat]
you can get search without using the cr
19:10:20 [talli]
i have an engineering degree, but i have never enjoyed programming
19:10:29 [vinod]
infidel
19:10:32 [talli]
so i understand the terms, but i don't get in the nitty gritty
19:11:39 [vinod]
right. as i understand acs-sc, you can pick and choose which services you want to hook up data to. so having everything in the CR may no longer be necessary?
19:12:01 [hazmat]
the biggest thing seems to be the versioning and categorization. but i'm can't decide if its worth the potential overhead, since all content basically (minus real fs storage, and extended attribute storage) gets stored in one big honking table cr_revisions.
19:12:18 [talli]
that is seriously nasty.
19:12:44 [talli]
i guess te CR has yet to be scalability tested. it could wilt under gigs of data
19:12:55 [adler]
talli: when you install oacs, you may want to avoid to vinod's install documentation, less you wish to enflame the holy war
19:13:16 [talli]
vinod didn't write that
19:13:40 [adler]
should that stop me from blaming him?
19:13:59 [vinod]
yeah - talli wrote it - blame him
19:14:00 [talli]
he stole it from a twelve year old lithuanian prodigy who he keeps in his cellar to port all of the ACS code
19:14:13 [vinod]
talli: he's almost 13
19:14:20 [talli]
see!!!!!
19:14:32 [talli]
bastard
19:15:18 [hazmat]
vinod: i think thats a good outlook re acs-sc overcoming cr, but the cr is still used by a lot of stuff, and can be quite useful, i'm just not sure it makes sense yet... i guess i just want to talk to someone who is gung ho on the cr :)
19:16:17 [adler]
i can't read the openacs cvs howto http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/one-file-redirect-latest?file_id=100
19:16:42 [talli]
hazmat: i would post something to the bboards. i know that donb has been championing the CR in order to facilitate SWS
19:16:45 [adler]
rather, it's the web server's fault, not my sixth grade teacher's
19:17:42 [talli]
adler: blame it on vinod. it's easy, and no one can really argue because they know it's 50/50 whether it's true or not
19:18:51 [vinod]
ack. i think that may actually be my fault. i fixed the permissioning in new-file-storage, but all the old content had to be converted to the new system, so the links aren't correct anymore
19:18:57 [vinod]
try http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/cvs.html?version_id=140
19:19:21 [talli]
i was right!!!!
19:19:23 [hazmat]
broken links, reminds of me something i read in the panda book...
19:19:48 [adler]
why don't we change the link in http://openacs.org/faq/one?scope=public&faq_id=23#1
19:20:36 [vinod]
will do
19:20:42 [adler]
it's a funny doc : "Oh, by the way: I am not a CVS export"
19:21:00 [adler]
"this is not a recording"
19:21:04 [vinod]
lol
19:21:34 [talli]
whoa. that's about as geeky a joke as i've ever heard
19:21:44 [talli]
i'm actually stunned by how nerdy that is
19:21:54 [talli]
markd, where are you?
19:21:56 [adler]
i wish I could claim credit
19:22:10 [talli]
that's a serious beavertronics quip
19:25:37 [adler]
That Lithuanian is one witty white slave.
19:26:24 [vinod]
ahhh - that's not my work - pascal scheffer's wrote that doc
19:28:06 [vinod]
talli: i'm getting thirsty - when do i get to come down to nyc for free beers?
19:28:32 [talli]
when you submit to my power
19:28:45 [talli]
i don't know
19:28:50 [talli]
i need to figure it out
19:28:52 [vinod]
* vinod submits
19:28:59 [talli]
adler, does the psfc have good beer?
19:29:24 [adler]
They are debating selling alcohol -- it complicates the checkout process.
19:29:42 [adler]
Brooklyn has good beer.
19:29:44 [talli]
because everyone tips a couple back?
19:30:15 [talli]
where is there good beer in NYC?
19:30:56 [talli]
i finally found a place with great beer near my apartment (including hand-drawn fuller's porter.... mmmm) but i still have yet to find a place with beer as good as your average pub in boston
19:30:57 [adler]
For a huge bear selection, there's the Gate on 5th ave near 8th st.
19:31:26 [adler]
s/bear/bear/. You can find you bears in the West Village
19:31:33 [vinod]
lol
19:32:13 [vinod]
talli: do you live in brooklyn? or just work there
19:32:29 [talli]
i just work there.
19:32:37 [talli]
adler: that's a good one about the west village
19:32:38 [adler]
talli: what do you look for in a pub?
19:32:51 [vinod]
chicks, i think
19:33:19 [vinod]
or maybe not
19:33:21 [vinod]
:-)
19:33:56 [talli]
hey vinod, keep talking and child services is gonna find out about little Nikolai and his linux box
19:33:57 [adler]
vinod: keep your eyes on the code.
19:34:12 [vinod]
* vinod shuts up
19:34:12 [talli]
there you go adler. you tell him
19:34:33 [Sporkiephylax]
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19:34:52 [adler]
actually, nylug likes to meet at this ok bar up near the IBM building. They have lots of windows boxes with lcd screens on swivel mounts
19:35:25 [adler]
only this time, we're not allowed to install debian on any of boxes.
19:35:58 [talli]
haha. did you once try that?
19:36:02 [adler]
since we get enought computer time, I think we can skip it.
19:36:06 [k2pts]
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19:36:30 [talli]
hey, i didn't see aegrumet here before
19:36:36 [talli]
how's it going andrew!
19:36:39 [adler]
I wasn't there, but nylug angerred the owners of 'typhoon'
19:37:00 [talli]
that's some serious over the top nerdism
19:37:02 [k2pts]
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19:38:15 [adler]
yeah. I wish I coulda been there *sigh*
19:39:39 [adler]
do we still use acs-events?
19:39:42 [k2pts]
Davb, maybe you should change the topic to "#openacs hotline"
19:40:01 [aegrumet]
oh hey
19:40:07 [aegrumet]
was that "how's it going" for me?
19:40:23 [aegrumet]
or are there other Andrew's?
19:40:31 [aegrumet]
(I'm new to #openacs, not to mention IRC)
19:41:33 [talli]
that was for you andrew
19:41:49 [talli]
have you come to join the darkside?
19:41:53 [aegrumet]
heh
19:41:57 [talli]
does richard li know you're here?
19:42:06 [aegrumet]
I don't suspect so.
19:42:20 [aegrumet]
I'm one of the few ad'ers left supporting a non-java client
19:42:35 [talli]
is there such thing as a java client?
19:42:40 [aegrumet]
I mean,
19:42:52 [aegrumet]
someone who hired us to build a site
19:43:42 [aegrumet]
not "client" in the "client/server" sense
19:44:13 [aegrumet]
I just discovered something about ad_proc that I didn't know before
19:44:28 [aegrumet]
if you call ad_proc -bar borg $foo
19:44:37 [aegrumet]
and $foo happens to start with a dash
19:44:42 [aegrumet]
bad things happen
19:44:53 [aegrumet]
the answer: ad_proc -bar borg -- $foo
19:44:57 [aegrumet]
(that's dash dash)
19:45:10 [aegrumet]
(to signify end of optional switches)
19:45:35 [adler]
I think it's time for me to catch a nice Indian buffet lunch.
19:45:37 [talli]
andrew, i saw you have a new daugther
19:45:40 [talli]
congrats!
19:45:43 [aegrumet]
hey thanks
19:45:55 [talli]
laer adlet
19:45:56 [talli]
adler
19:46:05 [talli]
drop me your number so we can chat
19:46:12 [talli]
how's life been as a father?
19:46:20 [adler]
talli: I'm not comfortable with your pet names for me.
19:46:41 [talli]
adler: like what? "vinod's little boy"?
19:46:50 [adler]
that's a different story entirely
19:46:58 [adler]
later
19:47:00 [adler]
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19:47:13 [aegrumet]
hmm, I'm not clueful about irc
19:49:03 [hazmat]
aegrumet: waste a few days on it and it will all be clear ;)
19:49:12 [aegrumet]
heh
19:49:22 [aegrumet]
do I know you hazmat?
19:49:55 [hazmat]
doubtful
19:50:01 [aegrumet]
okay hi I'm Andrew
19:50:02 [aegrumet]
:)
19:50:09 [hazmat]
kapil
20:06:07 [rbm]
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20:28:50 [talli]
hey rbm and markd2
20:29:44 [talli]
markd2: here's a line for ya, from: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/cvs.html?version_id=140
20:29:58 [talli]
"Oh, by the way: I am not a CVS export. There are absolutely no warranties. "
20:30:20 [talli]
thought that was a pun (accidental?) worthy of the folks over at beavertronics
20:31:34 [markd2]
heh
20:33:36 [k2pts]
markd2: do you still work at aD?
20:34:39 [markd2]
k2pts: I do at the current time
20:34:54 [k2pts]
ok, just curius
20:43:32 [vinod]
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20:43:33 [davb]
* davb has returned, wow you guys were busy while I was gone!
20:44:21 [k2pts]
davb: hazmat needs more info for the keywords stuff. right hazmat?
20:48:54 [hazmat]
hi davb
20:49:17 [hazmat]
me have questions re keywords jaunx
20:49:53 [hazmat]
* hazmat formulates questions
20:50:12 [hazmat]
* hazmat decides to think about questions over a smoke
20:50:29 [talli]
ahhh!!! cigarrettes!
20:50:34 [talli]
stay away from those death sticks!
20:50:47 [hazmat]
cancer sticks not death...
20:51:08 [k2pts]
* k2pts thinks that talli is influenced by vinod
20:51:16 [talli]
sorry. i guess the cancer that cigs cause is curable nowadays?
20:51:36 [talli]
no, i'm influenced by my former addiction, and the health scares it caused
20:52:07 [talli]
of the many ways of dying, i've decided that i would like to try and exclude car crashes and cancer for my personal end
20:56:20 [hazmat]
talli, who wants to live forever?
20:57:02 [talli]
i don't want to live forever, but while i live i don't really want to experience my brain turning into a mass of runaway tumors
20:57:12 [talli]
i have a friend whose father died of lung cancer
20:57:41 [talli]
in the last stages, when the cancer had overtaken his brain, he couldn't remember his sons' names but he still asked for cigarettes
20:58:05 [talli]
so my friend would have to hold cigarettes to his mouth because his body had disintegrated too much for him to hold it himself
20:58:56 [hazmat]
* hazmat considers quitting
20:59:48 [hazmat]
at that point i was ask someone to perform a mercy killing.
20:59:53 [hazmat]
s/was/would
21:00:44 [talli]
yeah, you would if you could form that thought in your head. unfortunately, the cancer would have eaten too much of your brain
21:02:47 [hazmat]
thats what friends and family are for right? to put a gun in your hand and ask you to light up...
21:03:33 [hazmat]
my morbid insensitive humor is disturbing to me.... back to the cr keywords...
21:04:25 [hazmat]
davb, you around?
21:12:34 [hazmat]
argh... have to go put out some client fires. cheers
21:12:46 [hazmat]
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21:15:48 [davb]
darn, missed him.
21:15:58 [davb]
(stupid meeting)
21:16:35 [davb]
* davb decrees all must use the CR or suffer his wrath!!
21:17:08 [davb]
Actually the way to get CR benefits is to create a content-item but store the actual content in a package specific table i think.
21:17:26 [davb]
that you you can query for permissions, keywords, etc using the build in facilities.
21:18:51 [davb]
that was the general idea of acs-content.
21:23:08 [aegrumet]
hey I just noticed the big alpha disclaimer in nsopenssl.c
21:23:13 [aegrumet]
anybody know of specific issues?
21:27:06 [markd2]
outside of the boils that spontaneously form, nothing I've heard
21:27:13 [aegrumet]
heh
21:27:24 [aegrumet]
I also just noticed that scottg.net has a "version 2"
21:28:26 [aegrumet]
whereas ftp.aolserver.com does not
21:28:44 [davb]
weird.
21:29:01 [markd2]
ftp.aolserver.com probably lags what scottg has
21:29:08 [davb]
Version 2 is MUCH better. I don't know if it has experienced wide-spread testing though.
21:29:24 [aegrumet]
interesting
21:30:15 [davb]
I am not sure ftp.aolserver.com is a good place to get anything except aolserver.
21:30:27 [aegrumet]
hey -- he took the alpha disclaimer out
21:30:38 [aegrumet]
then it MUST be better ;)
21:31:26 [markd2]
even then, getting the mayoff specials at arsdigita might bebetter
21:31:40 [markd2]
anyone know if Rob's gonna keep working with aolserver?
21:31:42 [davb]
until 4.0 at least, yes.
21:31:49 [davb]
He is still active on the list.
21:31:59 [markd2]
good
21:32:22 [davb]
the 4.0 answer was to the arsdigita specials. I am not sure rob is actually working on AOLserver :)
21:33:00 [davb]
gotta go. If haztmat comes back I will be back later tonight probably :)
21:33:05 [davb]
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21:45:43 [markd2]
* markd2 celebrates
21:45:49 [markd2]
I have postgresql working now on os/x
21:50:17 [aegrumet]
reminds me of a funny conversation I had with chadier
21:50:30 [aegrumet]
about running servers from those slim mac laptops
21:50:48 [aegrumet]
how many of those do you think could fit into 1U of rackspace
21:50:48 [aegrumet]
?
21:53:39 [talli]
i think you could fit about as many laptops into a rack as you can fit hipster graphic artists into an indy rock concert in a closet
21:53:44 [talli]
meaning, like 4000
21:54:31 [markd2]
that would be amusing to see a rack full of tibooks
21:54:44 [markd2]
disk i/o isn't great on those things
21:54:46 [markd2]
but the cpu is nice
21:59:50 [talli]
and the screen is beautiful... wait. it's in a rack
21:59:56 [talli]
damn! foiled again!
22:00:31 [talli]
rzolf bitches about his ibook alo
22:00:33 [talli]
alot
22:00:40 [talli]
but then again, rzolf bitches alot
22:01:21 [markd2]
heh
22:01:44 [talli]
for those of you in cambridge on nov 18th...
22:02:01 [markd2]
talli and Vinod in hot one-on-one action
22:02:09 [aegrumet]
lol
22:02:14 [talli]
there will be an OACS social at the house of blues where sexmob will be playing (http://www.sexmob.com)
22:02:28 [markd2]
like I said...
22:02:33 [talli]
whoa. markd2, that's blasphemy
22:03:04 [talli]
i sentence you not only to install and implement Intermedia, but to build a site with... Bebop!
22:03:20 [markd2]
* markd2 slinks back to his corner
22:03:29 [markd2]
anything but BeBop
22:03:38 [talli]
anyway, go to sexmob.com and check out the goods section http://www.sexmob.com/gds.html
22:03:39 [markd2]
* markd2 considers that cruel and unusual
22:03:56 [talli]
yes, well how do you think i feel about a hot one on one with vinod?
22:04:27 [markd2]
heh
22:04:27 [talli]
re: sexmob, check out the Nobody Does it Better mp3
22:04:32 [talli]
dope dope dope!
22:07:59 [talli]
for something completely different
22:08:11 [talli]
has anyone ever been able to sit through an entire monty python movie?
22:08:32 [markd2]
I have
22:08:33 [talli]
i was watching the meaning of life last night, and after 30 minutes or so i couldn't deal anymore.
22:08:48 [talli]
it was hilarious, but it drove me insane after a while
22:09:02 [talli]
markd2, does that mean there is something wrong with me?
22:09:11 [talli]
or with you?
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23:10:05 [markd2]
yo
23:10:12 [markd2]
hey - got postgresql working on os/x
23:10:31 [markd2]
I'm too lazy to look it up questin - any good 'beginner quickstart guides' for PG?
23:10:57 [jerryasher]
I like the pg interactive docs
23:11:07 [jerryasher]
it's /doc + general comments
23:11:24 [jerryasher]
but it depends on what you are trying to do of course.
23:11:29 [markd2]
that the doc tarball?
23:11:53 [jerryasher]
no I was referring to openacs.org/doc if it had (when it has) general comments turned on
23:12:06 [jerryasher]
so that you get the official docs + user comments to help clarify or expand
23:12:15 [markd2]
ah
23:12:26 [jerryasher]
http://www.postgresql.org/idocs/
23:12:27 [chump]
E: http://www.postgresql.org/idocs/ from jerryasher
23:14:10 [vinod]
markd2: cool!
23:14:30 [vinod]
lots of good stuff at http://techdocs.postgresql.org too
23:15:07 [markd2]
any quick "if you know oracle, here's the PG equivalents" kind of things?
23:15:22 [jerryasher]
that's more in the rbm stuff at techdocs
23:15:37 [jerryasher]
but again it depends
23:15:47 [jerryasher]
the doc is there for this query becomes that query
23:15:52 [jerryasher]
but not as much for the
23:16:01 [jerryasher]
administration side of life
23:17:32 [vinod]
here's rbm's guide
23:17:35 [vinod]
http://www.brasileiro.net/postgres/porting/
23:17:36 [chump]
F: http://www.brasileiro.net/postgres/porting/ from vinod
23:17:50 [markd2]
thanky
23:17:54 [vinod]
F:| rbm's oracle to pg guide
23:17:54 [chump]
titled item F
23:17:59 [vinod]
no problemy
23:42:16 [markd2]
markd2 has quit
23:43:16 [markd2]
markd2 has joined #openacs
23:43:29 [markd2]
* markd2 unplugged
23:43:39 [markd2]
time to go to a comfy spot and read