IRC log of openacs on 2001-11-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:08:10 [rbm]
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00:52:12 [docwolf]
i had a fan fail on an athlon
00:52:38 [docwolf]
the heat monitor warning went off after like 30 seconds
00:52:54 [docwolf]
it took about 1 minute total for the CPU to smoke itself.
00:53:02 [davb]
ack.
00:53:12 [davb]
Shouldn't it shut itself off?
00:53:28 [docwolf]
that's what i thought
00:53:30 [davb]
This was on the multiprocessor units.
00:53:30 [docwolf]
but it didn't.
00:53:33 [davb]
Aha.
00:53:34 [docwolf]
the smell was awful
00:53:39 [davb]
ick.
00:53:44 [docwolf]
and the thing is
00:53:52 [docwolf]
it was an ATX motherboard, with the "soft" on/off switch
00:53:57 [davb]
very unfortunate.
00:54:03 [docwolf]
so... the switch failed, and I had to run to yank the power cord
00:54:31 [docwolf]
it was a disaster. i wonder what would have happened if i didn't cut the power
00:54:40 [davb]
Ack. I have _one_ atx case with a REAL power switch on the back along with the soft switch on the front. Its a cheap one too. the fancy ones don't have it.
00:55:02 [davb]
Scary. probably would have overheated the chipset and fried the motherboard.
00:55:23 [docwolf]
it's funny how manufacturers think that systems are realiable enough that we don't need a traditional "on/off switch
00:55:40 [davb]
I am looking at the Oracle/intermedia search package. Its kinda scary.
00:57:13 [docwolf]
in my weird conspiratorial world
00:57:25 [docwolf]
i beleive that oracle makes their software as bulky and difficult to understand as possible
00:57:30 [docwolf]
in order to maintain a "mystique"
00:57:32 [docwolf]
:-)
00:57:35 [davb]
Probably.
00:57:41 [docwolf]
"it's so hard to use, it must be good"
00:57:45 [davb]
heh
00:59:00 [davb]
Well, my lack of Oracle knowledge _is_ quite extensive. But just the architecture is very messy. They crammed everything into one package. The acs-service-contract solution provided by the unpaid volunteers is much nicer than what aD built.
01:00:41 [docwolf]
heh. i'm not surprised.
01:00:50 [davb]
I have this overwhelming instinct to just rewrite the whole thing.... or most of it anyway.
01:03:16 [docwolf]
!
01:03:17 [docwolf]
ugh
01:07:48 [davb]
I need someone from aD who knows how it works.
01:09:10 [docwolf]
who wrote it?
01:09:12 [docwolf]
is it in the source?
01:09:18 [davb]
except I am not sure anyone every did...
01:09:22 [davb]
probably
01:09:24 [davb]
* davb looks
01:09:55 [davb]
here is one name: Khy Huang
01:11:34 [davb]
I could try the email to see if it still is active.
01:12:03 [davb]
well... I am still waiting for an aD bboard search to return... is this the same search software? :)
01:29:41 [Psychephylax]
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01:29:57 [Psychephylax]
hey all
01:30:16 [davb]
hi
01:30:25 [Psychephylax]
wanna help me figure out what domain to register?
01:31:09 [davb]
sure!
01:31:39 [Psychephylax]
any suggestions?
01:31:44 [davb]
I use the tools at selfpromotion.com
01:31:47 [Psychephylax]
I want psychesoft.com but it's taken
01:31:57 [Psychephylax]
and so is psycheinc.com
01:31:58 [davb]
you can sumbit a list of words and it will try all the combinations.
01:32:17 [davb]
only hitch is I always forget my password :)
01:33:24 [Psychephylax]
heh
01:33:35 [davb]
I'm in!
01:33:44 [Psychephylax]
lol
01:34:08 [davb]
it has great tools for analyzing web pages.
01:34:21 [Psychephylax]
Analyze mine them
01:34:23 [Psychephylax]
then rather
01:34:24 [Psychephylax]
neverhere.com
01:35:01 [davb]
you have to say WHAT to analyze it for.
01:35:09 [davb]
ie what keywords you want to be known for.
01:35:23 [Psychephylax]
heh
01:35:27 [Psychephylax]
I don't have any
01:35:44 [Psychephylax]
I wonder if i should register angrymidgets.com
01:35:49 [davb]
its not??
01:35:53 [Psychephylax]
no
01:36:09 [Psychephylax]
i want something professional type
01:36:18 [Psychephylax]
like psychesoft.net maybe
01:36:22 [davb]
psychemidgets.com is also available.
01:37:34 [Psychephylax]
What do you think, psychesoft.net?
01:37:48 [davb]
not bad. whats it for?
01:37:55 [Psychephylax]
nothing in particular
01:38:04 [davb]
psychetron.com,net,org is avaialble.
01:38:10 [Psychephylax]
lol
01:38:15 [davb]
also psychevision
01:38:23 [Psychephylax]
oh boy
01:38:29 [Psychephylax]
if I ever start my own psychic network
01:38:32 [Psychephylax]
I can use psychevision!
01:38:32 [Psychephylax]
lol
01:38:45 [davb]
heh
01:39:16 [Psychephylax]
astisoft.com is taken
01:39:23 [davb]
darn.
01:39:33 [davb]
psychematic is available.
01:39:54 [Psychephylax]
well, psychephylax too but it's no use to me
01:40:06 [davb]
oh right.
01:40:18 [davb]
noone would ever be able to type it :)
01:40:39 [Psychephylax]
it's gotta be: easy to remember, about nothing specific, and sound well if it's nick@something
01:40:47 [Psychephylax]
like nick@hishouse.com
01:41:11 [Psychephylax]
psychesoft sounds like a consulting firm perhaps =)
01:42:46 [Psychephylax]
wooohooo! lackofsex.net is available!
01:43:40 [davb]
perhaps
01:43:53 [davb]
uh, that is also VERY surprising.
01:44:03 [davb]
I am sure you can make money with that one.
01:44:15 [Psychephylax]
lol
01:44:17 [Psychephylax]
how do you figure
01:44:42 [Psychephylax]
nbpsy or psynb?
01:45:04 [davb]
psynb is also pronouncable.
01:45:23 [Psychephylax]
yah
01:45:32 [davb]
s/also/almost :)
01:45:38 [Psychephylax]
heh
01:48:09 [Psychephylax]
here's a question for you
01:48:12 [davb]
ok
01:48:30 [Psychephylax]
How can a domain expire 7 days ago and still be operational?
01:48:41 [davb]
who knows.
01:48:48 [Psychephylax]
Domain Name: psychesoft.com
01:48:51 [davb]
is network solutions holding it?
01:48:53 [Psychephylax]
Created on..............: Sun, Oct 29, 2000
01:48:53 [Psychephylax]
Expires on..............: Mon, Oct 29, 2001
01:48:53 [Psychephylax]
Record last updated on..: Fri, Jul 06, 2001
01:49:04 [davb]
they hoard them.
01:49:23 [Psychephylax]
but it still works http://www.psychesoft.com
01:49:46 [davb]
interesting. Perhaps they reregistered but it didn;t go all around yet.
01:49:59 [davb]
no idea, the domain registration system is a huge mess.
01:56:09 [Psychephylax]
maybe I should get neverhere.net
01:56:47 [davb]
maybe.
02:35:48 [Psychephylax]
bah
02:35:51 [Psychephylax]
I need a master card
02:36:32 [davb]
the don't take american express? :)
02:36:41 [Psychephylax]
no, they don't take Discover
02:37:09 [Psychephylax]
Although, supposedly...When i get my citibank atm card, I can use it as a debit card which is accepted for a Master Card
02:37:25 [Psychephylax]
Until then, I'll just have to hope nobody steals my domain :(
02:37:54 [davb]
ack.
02:38:15 [Psychephylax]
ack?
02:38:17 [Psychephylax]
syn!
02:38:22 [davb]
Psychephylax: if the atm card has a mastercard logo, it will be accepted as a credit card.
02:38:37 [Psychephylax]
it doesn't
02:38:45 [Psychephylax]
i haven't gotten it yet anyway
02:38:54 [Psychephylax]
it just sez it's accepted everywhere MC is
02:39:28 [Psychephylax]
they do take American Express tho
02:39:39 [davb]
heh
02:40:02 [davb]
Discover charges outrageous fees. YOu have to do all kinds of special crap to accept it.
02:40:08 [Psychephylax]
nonsense
02:40:19 [Psychephylax]
I got mine =)
02:40:28 [Psychephylax]
I have no fees aside from the ones i make myself
02:40:45 [Psychephylax]
See, I never carry a balance to the next month
02:40:52 [davb]
no not you, the merchant :)
02:40:55 [Psychephylax]
They keep raising my limit too
02:40:56 [Psychephylax]
oh
02:41:20 [davb]
:) /me had a merchant account before...
02:41:23 [davb]
oops
02:41:28 [Psychephylax]
hah
02:41:49 [Psychephylax]
!!
02:41:49 [davb]
Hey, Psychephylax. What would you say is a good book to start learning programming?
02:41:53 [davb]
excellent.
02:41:55 [Psychephylax]
A good book?
02:42:01 [Psychephylax]
Well...depends on what you want to program
02:42:04 [davb]
Yeah, like the first one I should read.
02:42:15 [davb]
Not a language book...theoryish.
02:42:20 [Psychephylax]
Right
02:42:34 [Psychephylax]
well, theoryish books are also usually 1. Language referencing
02:42:44 [Psychephylax]
2. Focus on one point
02:42:47 [davb]
I probably should just keep coding and learn through osmosis.
02:42:51 [Psychephylax]
Nah
02:42:56 [Psychephylax]
What do you have problems with?
02:43:03 [davb]
everything.
02:43:04 [Psychephylax]
I have all sorts of "theoryish" books
02:43:06 [davb]
:)
02:43:12 [Psychephylax]
How's your coding style? :)
02:43:30 [davb]
Not bad, but I am lazy.
02:43:59 [Psychephylax]
you know what fibbonacci numbers are and tower of hanoi?
02:44:29 [davb]
kind of... but not really.
02:44:33 [Psychephylax]
ok
02:44:39 [Psychephylax]
how's your mathematical reasoning?
02:45:16 [davb]
Good question. Not bad I suspect, but I have forgotten most of it.
02:46:08 [Psychephylax]
THis book is pretty good but I think you can find it cheaper at your local college bookstore: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0534944469/qid=1004928410/sr=2-3/ref=sr_2_11_3/107-9392143-8963727
02:46:56 [Psychephylax]
I also have this book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130961418/qid=1004928484/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_10_5/107-9392143-8963727
02:47:05 [davb]
WOW!
02:47:08 [davb]
$$$
02:47:55 [Psychephylax]
and if you want your hair to fall out from stress and confusion: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0132624788/qid=1004928550/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/107-9392143-8963727
02:48:04 [davb]
(too late)
02:48:04 [Psychephylax]
That's heavy duty
02:48:26 [Psychephylax]
last one has 350 pages
02:48:44 [Psychephylax]
but each page feels like 30 normal pages
02:48:54 [Psychephylax]
every other line is like a concept
02:49:14 [davb]
wow.
02:49:16 [Psychephylax]
then, if you want to read some stuff about Algorithms...
02:49:40 [Psychephylax]
We have one written by one of my former professors: The Algorithm, design manual by Steven S. skiena
02:50:01 [Psychephylax]
and fundamentals of algorithmics by gilles brassard and paul bratley
02:50:43 [Psychephylax]
something on the light side: The practice of programming by Kernigan and Pike
02:50:44 [davb]
Aha. Looks like I really do need to relearn all that math.
02:51:29 [Psychephylax]
then there's "The Object Concept" with C++ references by Rick Decker and Stuart Hirshfield
02:51:43 [Psychephylax]
or
02:52:14 [Psychephylax]
PRogramming Language Concepts and Paradigms by David A. Watt...I don't think it's the same dude the watt unit is named after :-/
02:52:32 [davb]
heh
02:53:02 [Psychephylax]
There's also Software Engineering theory and Practice
02:53:32 [Psychephylax]
that should keep you entertained for a while...a long while... lol
02:53:43 [Psychephylax]
Kept me busy for 3.5 years and I haven't finished reading half of them
02:53:45 [davb]
yeah.
02:53:50 [davb]
aigh!!!!
02:53:56 [davb]
Yeah. I better get going!
02:54:04 [Psychephylax]
hell, there are some books I haven't even started reading! lol
02:54:11 [Psychephylax]
Probably because i never went to class
02:55:29 [davb]
I just need to buy a bookstore....
02:55:53 [Psychephylax]
nah
02:55:56 [Psychephylax]
Just coffee
02:55:57 [Psychephylax]
;)
02:56:08 [Psychephylax]
go to border or b&n...buy lots of coffee and read the books there
02:56:38 [davb]
oh yeah, the vinod method.
02:56:46 [davb]
I work across the street from borders.
02:57:03 [Psychephylax]
I wish starbucks had books there =)
02:57:14 [davb]
crap. amazon showed a book I wanted to look at, and now it's a different one.
02:57:16 [Psychephylax]
Well, some Borders or B&N actually have SB in them
02:57:37 [davb]
Ours has the borders coffee shop. close enough.
02:57:46 [Psychephylax]
hey dave, how would you handle this
02:57:58 [Psychephylax]
Say you have a table for books
02:58:03 [Psychephylax]
a table for book copies....
02:58:12 [Psychephylax]
and patrons can request a book to be on hold for them
02:58:38 [davb]
anyone win the world series yet?
02:58:47 [Psychephylax]
no, not yet
02:58:51 [Psychephylax]
0 - 1 yanks down
02:59:06 [Psychephylax]
so, a patron can request a book to be on hold
02:59:49 [Psychephylax]
I have to find out what book copy will be available fastest and put that person on hold for it
03:00:06 [davb]
Except, what if someone doesn't bring it back on time?
03:00:14 [Psychephylax]
right
03:00:30 [Psychephylax]
My friend has a "Hold" table
03:00:42 [davb]
So you have to put a hold on the "book" not the copy. first available book, goes to first hold.
03:00:43 [Psychephylax]
I'm not sure if it solves the problem anywya
03:01:23 [davb]
It is too late for me to think about it, I was looking at oracle code earlier and my brain is fried.
03:01:28 [Psychephylax]
heh
03:01:33 [Psychephylax]
ok
03:01:38 [Psychephylax]
so let me ask you another question then
03:02:00 [davb]
* davb wonders how he can do 4 years of compsci and work a fulltime job in like 6 months to a year...:)
03:02:11 [Psychephylax]
if you have a table that stores patrons who want to borrow a specific ISBN...can you use SQL to determine who gets the next copy?
03:02:41 [davb]
sure. query the hold table for the earliest hold on that isbn.
03:02:42 [Psychephylax]
Dave, doubtful but you can learn more than if you didn't read anything
03:02:52 [davb]
heh. right.
03:02:57 [davb]
gotta go. good luck!
03:03:10 [Psychephylax]
ok
03:03:12 [Psychephylax]
bye
03:03:14 [davb]
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05:43:33 [jerryasher]
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/10/21/CM161079.DTL
05:43:34 [chump]
A: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/10/21/CM161079.DTL from jerryasher
05:43:38 [jerryasher]
Hmm. Brains.
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13:57:32 [markd2]
Hey Andrew
13:57:42 [aegrumet]
Hey it looks like irc works from here!
13:57:44 [markd2]
* markd2 intrduces aegrumet to the usual crowd
13:57:50 [markd2]
but I think most of them are asleep right now
14:01:08 [davb]
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14:01:18 [davb]
hi
14:02:01 [markd2]
good morning
14:17:54 [davb]
hi aegrumet.
14:17:59 [aegrumet]
hi davb
14:18:09 [davb]
view
14:18:16 [davb]
chump view
14:18:19 [davb]
argh!
14:18:22 [davb]
A:
14:18:22 [chump]
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/10/21/CM161079.DTL
14:18:38 [aegrumet]
I'm a bit of an irc newbie
14:18:54 [aegrumet]
scuse me if I seem confused.
14:20:15 [davb]
no problem
14:20:31 [aegrumet]
hey I did some work on rss over weekend
14:20:41 [aegrumet]
probably won't get much chance to look at it again
14:20:52 [aegrumet]
until after business hours
14:21:22 [aegrumet]
http://aegrumet.dyndns.org:8001/rss-support.html
14:21:23 [chump]
B: http://aegrumet.dyndns.org:8001/rss-support.html from aegrumet
14:21:42 [aegrumet]
(not a canonical url)
14:24:52 [davb]
that looks pretty good. I am still not sure if the RSS parsing bit should be in its own package or part of a bigger XML translation service.
14:25:49 [aegrumet]
Yeah it looks like there may actually be a clean division
14:26:08 [aegrumet]
but in any case I'm happy to work in the same pacakagedir
14:26:09 [aegrumet]
:)
14:26:46 [davb]
Sure. I originally was thinking of just a proc or two that gives the channel info and a list of the items. The caller could then do whatever it wanted, stuff it in the database or whatever.
14:27:54 [aegrumet]
k
14:30:43 [aegrumet]
the other thing that might be useful (feature creep!)
14:30:53 [aegrumet]
would be a way to associate a template with a feed
14:31:09 [aegrumet]
i.e. if I wanted an adp-include which displayed the last
14:31:11 [markd2]
* markd2 fears the feeping creatures
14:31:20 [aegrumet]
few posts on the foo bboard
14:33:44 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
14:35:40 [davb]
That is a portlet. different package?
14:35:58 [aegrumet]
perhaps; still getting familiar with oacs
14:36:03 [davb]
I think we are really at a critiacl point.
14:36:23 [aegrumet]
install went well; tried porting photo-lite to learn a little pg
14:36:30 [davb]
The portlet functionality is getting enhanced for the new Sloan school system.
14:36:30 [aegrumet]
went very smoothly.
14:36:32 [aegrumet]
great tools.
14:36:34 [davb]
Excellent.
14:36:59 [davb]
I am trying to learn acs-interface so I can convert site-wide search to acs-service-contract.
14:37:26 [aegrumet]
Good. I haven't tried classic sws but I've heard with butt slow
14:37:32 [aegrumet]
due to all the dynamic pl/sql
14:37:43 [davb]
Yes, I think that all can go. (i hope)
14:37:44 [aegrumet]
s/with/it's/
14:38:26 [davb]
the new package will just take orders to index content and deliver search results back to the search UI.
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* AaronSw disconnects
15:26:49 [Psychephylax]
hi
15:27:01 [davb]
hello Psychephylax
15:28:32 [Psychephylax]
Hey dave
15:32:04 [Psychephylax]
http://www.digitalblasphemy.com/dbgallery/5/autumnfire1024.shtml
15:32:05 [chump]
C: http://www.digitalblasphemy.com/dbgallery/5/autumnfire1024.shtml from Psychephylax
15:32:12 [Psychephylax]
C:| a very cool background
15:32:12 [chump]
titled item C
15:32:16 [Psychephylax]
C: Worth getting
15:32:17 [chump]
commented item C
15:33:08 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
15:37:19 [Psychephylax]
did I miss much?
15:41:35 [Psychephylax]
Is OpenACS under the GPL or ADL? or whatever the heck AD calls it's license?
15:43:58 [davb]
GPL
15:44:00 [davb]
Nope
15:44:25 [Psychephylax]
not GPL?
15:48:23 [davb]
not it is GPL, you just didn't miss anything :)
15:48:38 [Psychephylax]
i miss my home
15:48:45 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
15:48:53 [davb]
oh, can't help you with that.
15:49:32 [Psychephylax]
Does he have that as a script or does he manually do that?
15:50:09 [davb]
no its a proxy. Keeps him connected when he's disconnectecd.
15:50:17 [davb]
so yeah a script I guess.
15:50:24 [davb]
that is a cool background I set it up.
15:51:36 [Psychephylax]
heh
15:51:45 [Psychephylax]
I have a proxy but it's not that advanced
15:51:52 [Psychephylax]
I will look at it when I get home
15:57:26 [Psychephylax]
i tried muh I think
15:58:31 [hazmat]
is aolserver under the MPL since when? i thought it was GPL...
15:58:48 [davb]
not sure...
15:59:47 [docwolf]
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16:03:21 [hazmat]
http://aolserver.com/license/ looks like its dual licensed
16:03:21 [chump]
D: http://aolserver.com/license/ from hazmat
16:03:37 [hazmat]
D: Aolserver is dual licensed under the GPL and MPL
16:03:37 [chump]
commented item D
16:04:13 [davb]
that is cool then.
16:05:03 [davb]
http://www.ifactory.com/wshops.html
16:05:03 [chump]
E: http://www.ifactory.com/wshops.html from davb
16:05:14 [davb]
E:|Web Trends 1993-2001:
16:05:14 [davb]
A Designer's Perspective
16:05:14 [chump]
titled item E
16:05:23 [davb]
E: A Designer's Perspective
16:05:23 [chump]
commented item E
16:05:30 [davb]
E: An evening with O'Reilly author Jennifer Niederst
16:05:30 [chump]
commented item E
16:05:45 [davb]
E: An evening with O'Reilly author Jennifer Niederst
16:05:45 [chump]
commented item E
16:05:50 [davb]
E: $35
16:05:51 [chump]
commented item E
16:08:53 [Psychephylax]
what's MPL?
16:09:04 [davb]
Mozilla Public License
16:09:08 [Psychephylax]
oh
16:09:12 [davb]
Anyone know of a book on Oracle Intermedia?
16:14:43 [davb]
how do I get a list of all the tables in my database in oracle?
16:14:50 [davb]
sql*Plus
16:16:19 [aegrumet]
select table_name from user_tables;
16:16:31 [aegrumet]
table_name is all uppercase
16:16:51 [aegrumet]
(if you need to do where clausing)
16:16:59 [davb]
thanks!
16:19:15 [aegrumet]
http://oradoc.photo.net/ora817/DOC/inter.817/index.htm
16:19:15 [chump]
F: http://oradoc.photo.net/ora817/DOC/inter.817/index.htm from aegrumet
16:19:23 [aegrumet]
(intermedia documentation for 817)
16:19:29 [davb]
thanks again.
16:37:02 [davb]
unless I am mistaken, the oracle SWS makes a copy of all content to create the index. That is, intermedia has to have the content in a text column of a table to index it.
16:41:41 [aegrumet]
If you use a "direct datastore"
16:42:00 [aegrumet]
intermedia goes to the table and indexes its columns
16:42:08 [aegrumet]
I wouldn't call that a "copy" really.
16:42:12 [davb]
ok.
16:42:18 [davb]
I'll have to read more :)
16:42:29 [aegrumet]
There are other kinds of datastores
16:42:33 [aegrumet]
like a "user datastore"
16:42:40 [aegrumet]
where you provide intermedia with a pl/sql proc
16:42:47 [aegrumet]
that returns the "stuff to be indexed"
16:42:54 [aegrumet]
in theory, that stuff need not be in a table
16:43:01 [aegrumet]
but I don't know why that would be useful.
16:43:10 [davb]
Static-pages.
16:43:17 [aegrumet]
ah hah
16:43:37 [aegrumet]
yeah you probably want a user datastore for that
16:43:40 [davb]
Or whatever. There is a "leave it in the filesystem" option for the content-repository.
16:43:50 [aegrumet]
I'm pretty sure acs3x provides similar functionality
16:44:15 [davb]
I think I will use it for everything. To interface with acs-service-contract. That way each package is resposible for delivering its content to intermedia.
16:45:27 [davb]
ack, maybe not...
16:53:10 [davb]
aha, that is how its done now. Each content type, news, bboard, etc.. registers a stored procedure to index itself.
16:59:36 [markd2]
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17:01:58 [davb]
wb markd2!
17:02:46 [markd2]
tankx
17:08:51 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit
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aegrumet has left #openacs
17:38:46 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
17:50:56 [Psychephylax]
lunch time
17:51:01 [Psychephylax]
be back later
17:59:09 [til]
til has joined #openacs
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hazmat has joined #openacs
18:47:16 [Psychephylax]
:)
18:47:18 [Psychephylax]
sushi!
18:47:27 [markd2]
gazheundheit
18:47:29 [davb]
ok
18:47:44 [davb]
This site-wide-search is taxing my brain!
18:47:49 [Psychephylax]
lol
18:47:53 [Psychephylax]
hey mark
18:48:11 [Psychephylax]
can you read doc format?
18:49:45 [davb]
* davb waves to hazmat
18:49:59 [hazmat]
hi davb
18:50:02 [davb]
Hi.
18:50:20 [davb]
hazmat: can a service-contract impkementation be in pl/sql?
18:50:39 [davb]
(you didn't think I was just being friendly did you? ;)
18:50:44 [hazmat]
:)
18:51:04 [hazmat]
davb, an implementation can be in pl/sql yes. it must be called from tcl.
18:51:18 [markd2]
me, I try to avoid doc format
18:51:27 [davb]
Ok. Then I have more work to do.
18:52:15 [hazmat]
i'm getting to speed on the cr and workflow, sometimes it seems that it will take forever to get something done, vs. rolling my own datamodel... sigh.
18:53:43 [davb]
well of course. But this way it will all work together. Learning OpenACS is a big PITA, but if everyone does it the toolkit will be more valuable :)
18:55:11 [Psychephylax]
Mark, would pdf be better?
18:55:20 [davb]
of course, I don't know what you are trying to accomplish....so my comments may be totally inappropriate.
18:55:21 [markd2]
for what?
18:55:28 [Psychephylax]
for you to read something =)
18:55:33 [markd2]
* markd2 prefers plain text first, then web page second
18:55:42 [Psychephylax]
ok, i'll do it webpage-ish
18:55:45 [markd2]
yay!
18:57:39 [Psychephylax]
try http://www.neverhere.com:1085/er.html
18:58:09 [Psychephylax]
It's not complete :) but it's a start
18:58:32 [markd2]
qool
18:59:13 [Psychephylax]
?
18:59:19 [markd2]
qool == cool
18:59:30 [Psychephylax]
ah
18:59:43 [markd2]
I disagree with having authors reference books
18:59:43 [Psychephylax]
Does it make sense and did I leave anything blatantly obvious out? :)
18:59:54 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax brings cookie offerings to Oracle God
19:00:27 [markd2]
you won't be able for an author to have more than one book in the system
19:00:58 [Psychephylax]
how do you figure
19:01:17 [markd2]
say you have this in your system: ('issaac asimov', 'foundations end');
19:01:25 [markd2]
issaac asimov is the Primary key
19:01:41 [markd2]
so you can have no more rows in the table with 'issaac asimov' as the author
19:01:53 [markd2]
the library now buys "sick limericks" by "issaac asimov"
19:02:01 [markd2]
you can't use the existing record since it points to foundations end
19:02:12 [markd2]
you can't add a new record since "issaac asimov" is the primary key, and hence unique
19:02:19 [Psychephylax]
Author names (but not patron names) are unique.
19:02:20 [Psychephylax]
An author does not (co-) author more than one book per year.
19:02:21 [Psychephylax]
An author does not (co-) author more than one book with a particular title.
19:02:32 [markd2]
your data model does not say that
19:02:35 [Psychephylax]
those are assumptions we're allowed to make
19:02:51 [markd2]
then you'll need to put date in your primary key for authors
19:03:03 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
19:03:14 [markd2]
right now ('issaac asmiov', 1984) and ('issaac asimov', 1985) won't work
19:03:47 [markd2]
I'm ignoring your comments and just looking at your create table
19:03:56 [markd2]
since the computer wil be ignoring your comments too :-)
19:07:55 [Psychephylax]
any other stupid mistakes?
19:08:13 [markd2]
that was the only one I could see
19:08:15 [markd2]
lemme re-read it
19:08:49 [markd2]
do they want production-level schema,s like having not-null and check constraints?
19:09:08 [Psychephylax]
if you want the full assignment it's here: http://www.cs.sunysb.edu/~cse305/projects/proj2.html
19:09:36 [markd2]
what's the deal with all the underlined text?
19:10:21 [Psychephylax]
Them are speycial..."important" things we should pay attention to
19:10:33 [markd2]
ok
19:10:47 [markd2]
itle and one of the author names are supplied at the
19:10:47 [markd2]
screen
19:10:50 [markd2]
very important :-)
19:10:57 [markd2]
(odd that the "t" isn't important)
19:11:38 [markd2]
if you want to be studly, for librarian character, have "librarian char(1) check (librarian in ('t, 'f'))"
19:12:03 [Psychephylax]
right
19:12:10 [Psychephylax]
I borrowed that from OpenACS =)
19:12:10 [markd2]
what's a candidate key again?
19:12:18 [Psychephylax]
something that's "unique"
19:12:22 [Psychephylax]
can be a pk I s'pose
19:17:32 [davb]
Aha, here is my dilemma: acs-interface is implemented in 100% pl/sql. Its replacement acs-service-contract uses pl/[pg]sql and tcl.
19:18:34 [davb_]
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19:18:36 [davb_]
argh
19:19:32 [davb_]
Ok. intermedia lets you specify a user datastore where you can have a stored procedure to generate the text content to be indexed on the fly. So right now site-wide-search has a pl/sql proc that checks the content_type and yanks out the pl/sql proc for each content_type.
19:20:32 [davb]
davb has quit
19:20:42 [davb_]
davb_ is now known as davb
19:21:02 [markd2]
argh
19:21:13 [markd2]
what that guy calls "integrity constraints", most of the rest of the world just call "business rules"
19:21:34 [davb]
* davb makes a note never to attend SUNY stony brook
19:22:28 [markd2]
looks almost like a greenspun problem set
19:22:40 [Psychephylax]
rofl
19:22:41 [markd2]
although there you'd be implementing the whole system
19:23:04 [Psychephylax]
Just think....2 more months of that crappy nightmare-ish school
19:23:05 [markd2]
Psychesporklax, I can't find anythign else to gripe about
19:23:13 [Psychephylax]
Excellent =)
19:23:23 [Psychephylax]
I shall bug you more when I finish the system
19:23:31 [Psychephylax]
heh
19:23:35 [Psychephylax]
Sporkiephylax
19:23:41 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax is now known as Sporkiephylax
19:23:45 [markd2]
heh
19:24:08 [davb]
So sitewide search has a table sws_search_contents that keeps the id of every piece of content to be searched and gives that to intermedia and then runs the pl/sql proc registered to the user datastore. (wheeee)
19:24:11 [davb]
!!
19:24:31 [davb]
Sporkiephylax: do you have to actually write this thing? in what?
19:24:46 [Sporkiephylax]
Java
19:24:58 [Sporkiephylax]
That's part 3
19:25:19 [davb]
Fun. BTW there is a Open Source library software project around somewhere...
19:26:05 [markd2]
sounds like there's about to be 20 more
19:26:18 [Sporkiephylax]
rofl
19:26:21 [Sporkiephylax]
20?
19:26:26 [Sporkiephylax]
try 100 or so
19:26:35 [Sporkiephylax]
my account is cse305_246
19:26:43 [Sporkiephylax]
246/2 = 123
19:27:51 [markd2]
* markd2 makes a note never to attend SUNY stony brook
19:28:51 [Sporkiephylax]
heh
19:31:18 [Sporkiephylax]
It took me 3.5 years to get 2 degrees
19:31:29 [davb]
not bad.
19:31:29 [Sporkiephylax]
I regret every minute of those 3.5 years
19:31:30 [markd2]
sounds like you need some nyquil
19:31:40 [Sporkiephylax]
just 2 months more!
19:31:42 [Sporkiephylax]
heh
19:31:53 [Sporkiephylax]
Dave, if you come to NY in december we can party in NYC
19:31:57 [Sporkiephylax]
Free beer and strippers!
19:32:24 [davb]
Sporkiephylax: talk to talli about that...OpenACS social!
19:32:37 [Sporkiephylax]
lol
19:32:38 [Sporkiephylax]
sure!
19:34:38 [davb]
argh!!! "in a future release , CR will use the acs_contents for storing its data"
19:34:42 [davb]
yippee!
19:35:01 [davb]
Its is totally inconveinent to use the CR to store any data you want searched with intermedia.
19:36:23 [Sporkiephylax]
hmmm
19:37:13 [markd2]
* markd2 prefers CR/LF
19:38:28 [Sporkiephylax]
alter snmp_incidents modify cm_up_percent number 10,2
19:38:29 [Sporkiephylax]
?
19:38:39 [Sporkiephylax]
close?
19:38:40 [davb]
I think it is actually the other way around now. I didn;t see one package that used acs_contents in OpenACS.
19:38:42 [markd2]
mdify clumn cm_up_percent perhaps
19:38:44 [markd2]
might need number(10,2)
19:40:33 [Sporkiephylax]
CM_UP_PERCENT NOT NULL NUMBER(20)
19:40:41 [Sporkiephylax]
SQL> alter table snmp_incidents modify cm_up_percent number (20,2);
19:40:47 [Sporkiephylax]
ERROR at line 1:
19:40:48 [Sporkiephylax]
ORA-01440: column to be modified must be empty to decrease precision or scale
19:40:50 [markd2]
try 22,2
19:40:53 [Sporkiephylax]
I thought I was increasing
19:41:09 [markd2]
you now have 18 to the left of the decimal pint where you used to have 20
19:41:24 [Sporkiephylax]
aha
19:41:30 [Sporkiephylax]
thanks
19:44:57 [davb]
what is a nested table?
19:46:52 [markd2]
a quasi OO thing
19:47:03 [markd2]
a way of having a column be a data type
19:47:19 [davb]
ok...
19:51:06 [Sporkiephylax]
quasi modo
19:51:12 [davb]
heh
19:51:59 [davb]
THis is icky. It looks like I will have to mix and match the code in site-wide-search...
20:03:25 [Sporkiephylax]
* Sporkiephylax gives Mark a cookie
20:03:33 [markd2]
mmmm.. cookies...
20:03:46 [markd2]
* markd2 suspects something Pavlovian
20:07:17 [davb]
BTW, I saw the "Attack of the Clones" trailer at Monsters Inc this weekend.
20:07:54 [markd2]
yeah
20:07:57 [markd2]
* markd2 liked it
20:08:27 [davb]
which?
20:08:31 [markd2]
both
20:08:46 [davb]
Except for the dorky name, Star Wars II looked cool. Monsters is great.
20:12:06 [markd2]
I guess this will be the Clone Wars mentioned in ANH
20:18:23 [Sporkiephylax]
where's better to travel
20:18:28 [Sporkiephylax]
Florida or California
20:19:55 [markd2]
what do you want to do?
20:20:45 [Sporkiephylax]
i want to get away for a week from here
20:20:57 [Sporkiephylax]
under 1000$ preferrably
20:21:14 [markd2]
check out site59.com
20:21:24 [markd2]
'get-away' travel
20:21:27 [davb]
yeah. good idea. that is a cool site.
20:21:51 [davb]
I just wish they had trips out of an airport that wasn't a trip for me.
20:22:09 [davb]
oh well.
20:28:35 [davb]
aigh! acs-content is wacky! It is a simple replacement for the content-repository. in acs-content, the content is just a row in acs_contents, not an object. hence no permissions, etc...
20:28:36 [davb]
weird.
20:29:09 [davb]
aha. I see you would create an object which would store its conent in acs_contents, but the content itself is not an object.
20:31:24 [wysoft]
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20:31:31 [davb]
hello wysoft
20:31:35 [wysoft]
Hi
20:31:59 [Sporkiephylax]
hey joopie
20:32:05 [wysoft]
:)
20:32:52 [Sporkiephylax]
Why can't you drive down to Cali
20:33:02 [Sporkiephylax]
I'm trying to plan a thanksgiving vacation
20:33:29 [wysoft]
When?
20:33:45 [wysoft]
And don't say "Thanksgiving day"
20:34:44 [Sporkiephylax]
well, thanksgiving is like 24th and 25th right?
20:35:32 [wysoft]
25th
20:35:44 [Sporkiephylax]
ok
20:35:56 [Sporkiephylax]
so I get that whole week off
20:36:15 [Sporkiephylax]
So 17-25th
20:36:29 [Sporkiephylax]
I was thinking I would go to Cali for 3-5 days
20:36:39 [wysoft]
Ok, but I'm not going to California. There's no swaying me. I don't have any money to do it, and for sure my family wouldn't have it.
20:36:40 [Sporkiephylax]
Seattle can't be THAT exciting on it's own =)
20:36:57 [Sporkiephylax]
you lousy bum =)
20:37:13 [Sporkiephylax]
Well, unless you can convince me as to why I would want to go to Seattle for 4 days
20:37:24 [Sporkiephylax]
or
20:37:27 [Sporkiephylax]
how far is Canada
20:38:15 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
20:38:17 [markd2]
from NY? pretty close
20:38:21 [wysoft]
You don't want to go to Canada :/
20:38:54 [wysoft]
Nick, did you know they've cordoned off my town and they're inspecting suspicious vehicles on every major entrance/exit? rofl
20:39:04 [wysoft]
They're calling it "emphasis patrol." Is this Nazi America?
20:39:38 [markd2]
* markd2 goosesteps
20:39:54 [wysoft]
I can't blame them, though. There's two navy bases here, both with nuclear materials on site.
20:40:40 [wysoft]
Anyhow Nick, how's the SNMP app coming? Are you still getting paid to waste time? :)
20:41:40 [Sporkiephylax]
shut up
20:41:42 [Sporkiephylax]
it works
20:42:01 [wysoft]
rofl
20:42:15 [markd2]
he's getting help with hoemwork now
20:42:24 [Sporkiephylax]
heh
20:42:30 [Sporkiephylax]
* Sporkiephylax gives mark lots of cookies
20:43:03 [Sporkiephylax]
i'll be back...god knows when, must have a meeting
20:43:30 [wysoft]
wysoft has quit
20:54:50 [davb]
http://commons.somewhere.com/rre/2001/RRE.Design.for.a.Web.Fil.html
20:54:50 [chump]
G: http://commons.somewhere.com/rre/2001/RRE.Design.for.a.Web.Fil.html from davb
20:55:00 [davb]
G:|Design for a WebFilter service
20:55:00 [chump]
titled item G
20:55:15 [davb]
G: this looks interesting, might be fun to build
20:55:15 [chump]
commented item G
21:22:19 [davb]
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21:45:40 [k2pts]
k2pts has joined #openacs
21:45:48 [k2pts]
hi guys
21:46:47 [til]
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22:07:05 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
22:12:08 [rbm]
moo
22:14:02 [aegrumet]
hey it looks like acs4 classic never implemented forced-host redirection
22:14:11 [aegrumet]
(photo.net -> www.photo.net)
22:14:23 [aegrumet]
Does anyone know if this made it back into oacs?
22:14:31 [jerryasher]
No, I think that was a deliberate design decision.
22:14:40 [aegrumet]
what, leaving it out?
22:14:44 [jerryasher]
Yes.
22:14:56 [jerryasher]
I recall reading that they decided to give up on the "www" argument
22:15:04 [aegrumet]
interesting
22:15:13 [aegrumet]
I just wrote a proc to do it because my client needs it
22:15:16 [jerryasher]
in favor of being able to have sites with a root extension
22:15:20 [jerryasher]
that could share cookies.
22:15:22 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
22:15:29 [jerryasher]
Or something like that.
22:15:31 [aegrumet]
actually
22:15:37 [aegrumet]
the issue wasn't so much
22:15:53 [aegrumet]
about "to www or not to www"
22:15:57 [aegrumet]
but rather
22:16:14 [aegrumet]
"there are 5 aliases for my ip"
22:16:26 [aegrumet]
"but so as to avoid cookie-chains
22:16:33 [aegrumet]
I'm going to 302 redirect anybody that
22:16:48 [aegrumet]
doesn't match the nssock hostname parameter"
22:16:58 [jerryasher]
Yes, well they did get rid of the cookie chain, but I believe the strategy is just to issue
22:17:15 [jerryasher]
photo.net cookies and not mysubsite.photo.net cookies.
22:17:25 [aegrumet]
interesting
22:17:29 [aegrumet]
not all browsers support that
22:17:35 [aegrumet]
plus my client has registered
22:17:38 [aegrumet]
foo.com and foo.org
22:18:06 [jerryasher]
* jerryasher maybe I should run out and squat on foo.tv
22:18:11 [aegrumet]
heh
22:18:19 [aegrumet]
Okay, just a sanity check on my part
22:18:29 [aegrumet]
in my case I think we really do need it
22:18:38 [aegrumet]
but for other folks it may be a matter for discussion
22:18:55 [aegrumet]
In any case, the web UI for that param should probabably be removed
22:19:01 [aegrumet]
if it's not going to be implemented.
22:19:35 [jerryasher]
Of course, asking on the bboard may result in a different answer, possibly more accurate too.
22:20:34 [jerryasher]
http://www.hydroski.com/pages/skibike.htm
22:20:34 [chump]
H: http://www.hydroski.com/pages/skibike.htm from jerryasher
22:20:51 [jerryasher]
A jetski on steroids being developed by ex-aDrs
22:23:26 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
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hazmat has joined #openacs
22:48:23 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
22:54:12 [k2pts]
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23:06:30 [aegrumet]
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23:14:41 [Sporkiephylax]
anyone still alive?
23:16:23 [rbm]
barely
23:19:37 [Sporkiephylax]
heh
23:19:42 [Sporkiephylax]
I think I figured out my problem
23:21:48 [rbm]
what problem?
23:23:42 [Sporkiephylax]
The problem of making oracle show dates in Tcl
23:23:46 [Sporkiephylax]
I mean
23:23:47 [Sporkiephylax]
times
23:23:52 [Sporkiephylax]
It already shows dates, I wanted times
23:26:23 [rbm]
oh
23:29:52 [dgeilhufe]
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* AaronSw disconnects
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dgeilhufe has quit
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23:56:39 [davb]
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23:56:47 [davb]
hello
23:56:55 [jerryasher]
Hey Dave.
23:57:03 [talli]
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23:57:08 [davb]
hi talli
23:57:11 [talli]
hey guys
23:57:39 [talli]
is rbm around this eve?
23:57:58 [rbm]
nope
23:58:48 [rbm]
* rbm vows to get that done tonight talli
23:58:56 [rbm]
* rbm had 2 tests today
23:59:11 [talli]
ah, exams
23:59:20 [talli]
poor excuse, my undergraduate friend
23:59:30 [jerryasher]
I had two testes at the beginning of the day
23:59:55 [talli]
when i was in college, i had to slog through a thousand miles of burning coals just to reach a calculator...