00:03:35 medium atx case? 00:07:13 $47 on newegg.com 00:07:25 That is similar to mine. 00:08:41 what motherboard/cpu are you using? 00:09:19 I have an Asus something or other Super Socket 7 with an AMD k62/500 in there. 00:09:36 If you go with a P4 or Athlon you'll need a big CPU fan. I am not sure how noisy they are. 00:10:15 The only annoying thing with my case, is you need to remove the front to get the side off. 00:10:57 I looked at the picture, that is the exact case I have :) 00:11:53 i wish it looked more like an iMac 00:12:54 You can get those. I am not sure who makes them, but I have seen some. 00:13:31 there goes the sarcasm.. actually, I'd really like a case that is #1 *quiet*, #2 small, #3 supports new athlons if possible. 00:13:44 heh 00:14:08 THe REALLY small cases I have found also have really annoying small fans. 00:14:36 THese are the mini-desktop style that I am referring to. 00:14:45 right, it's a tough compromise (though I have no experense) 00:15:24 I could always replace them with quality fans and use a classy heatsink 00:15:25 Well to work with the Althon it needs a special power supply? 00:16:00 I don't realy know for sure. I think they make recommendations and prefer a minimum wattage. 00:17:07 talli has joined #openacs 00:17:09 The Althon CPU prices are wonderful also. 00:17:12 Hi Talli! 00:17:16 hey guys 00:17:25 hey talli 00:17:32 hey mike 00:18:29 good evening. tonight topic: quiet and small pcs 00:19:03 alternatively: 'cheap take-out. again' 00:19:44 is rbm around tonight? 00:20:06 not that I have seen 00:20:52 thx 00:23:28 davb - i've heard alot of hubub around the lian-li cases 00:24:12 sure are purty 00:24:15 good or bad? 00:24:25 aiigh 00:24:30 I looked at the prices. 00:25:51 yeah, pricey, but if your apartment was as small as mine, you'd realize how much you are forced to stare at it 00:30:13 talli has quit 00:31:28 aha. 00:31:48 Yeah, I guess I don't have that problem. 00:37:49 http://www.viahardware.com/sv24_1.shtm 00:37:58 [docwolf rises from the dead] 00:38:12 [with an interesting mobo/case] 00:38:39 if you use the VIA C-series chip, it doesn't even need a fan. 00:40:40 have you played around with these? 00:41:31 nope, i was thinking of ordering one this week. 00:41:36 the case/mobo is like $250 00:41:42 the VIA chip is.. .$40 I think 00:42:08 it looks like a good solution if you're using it for basic office stuff, or as a dumb terminal for development 00:42:16 (or... as a portable mp3 jukebox ;-) ) 00:42:42 but my understanding is that when the VIA C chip is used as the CPU, it runs cool enough so you can leave the fan disconnected. 00:42:57 schweet. is the VIA x86? 00:42:58 performance is supposedly celeron-like. 00:43:06 yeah, it's an x86 00:43:29 and that aluminum case is so cute 00:43:29 I guess the only thing you wouldn't want to use this machine for is 3d gaming 00:44:39 neat. 00:44:42 I don't imbibe anyway 00:45:01 i'd probably put in some sort of heinous video capture card 00:45:10 and a 160 gig HD.. and have my own "custom" TiVO 00:46:11 how much ram does that take? 00:46:16 i think 512 00:46:27 i see 2 memory slots 00:47:04 the fact that it has firewire, a LAN, and TV out built in really seals the deal though 00:48:05 mucho gracias -- must go order take immediate! 00:48:21 no prob. i'm trying to find the best place to order one from 00:48:36 the mobo comes without the CPU, and I'm having a dilly of a time finiding a place that stocks the VIA C chip 00:59:05 hmm... $300 for mobo,case, 512mb RAM at Mwave 00:59:19 $50 for the C-class fanless CPU 01:00:10 $140 for 80 gig HD. 01:01:15 $50 for a DVD 01:04:15 adler has quit 01:04:24 adler has joined #openacs 01:04:32 adler has quit 01:06:15 $80 for a decent vid capture card. 01:06:48 $620 for a silent pc-based TiVO/DVD player 01:06:49 not bad. 01:19:02 someone shoot me 01:38:33 jerryasher has joined #openacs 01:39:33 Anyone here in San Francisco Saturday? 01:40:16 Moby Dick day! (No, not the exotic erotic ball, that was last night) 01:40:16 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/11/01/DD81969.DTL 01:43:51 AaronSw has quit 01:44:35 AaronSw has joined #openacs 01:49:24 i'm worried about SF 01:49:48 Yeah, me too. I've been worried most of the day about container ships and GPS. 01:49:56 yeah. 01:50:10 AaronSw has quit 01:50:33 They've been putting coast guard pilots on board the ships with guns to ensure ships don't ram the bridges, 01:50:33 AaronSw has joined #openacs 01:50:46 * AaronSw reconnects 01:50:52 but I just don't see how the can feel comfortable about the contents of the containers themselves. 01:51:16 yeah... but i guess an explosion out on the bay is a better alternative? 01:51:20 Just a day or two ago, some ship was diverted to Alaska I think after finding a stowaway that had outfitted 01:51:38 a container with toilet, computer, drill (to make more airholes...) 01:51:50 fantastic... 01:51:51 ugh 01:51:59 I'd prefer the explosion be out near the farallones! 01:52:27 on the bright side (?) this whole experience may ultimately have a positive influence on other parts of our lives 01:52:33 anyway same old scenarios as two months ago when bush thought bin laden would be using icbms 01:52:40 do tell! 01:52:53 well, fewer counterfeit goods will enter the country, probably fewer drugs 01:53:04 (that is, IF they are serious about tightening the borders) 01:53:27 i've actually been wondering about the drugs. i don't know how seasonal a crop heroin is, but i'm somewhat 01:53:39 surprised we haven't been spraying afghan poppy fields. 01:53:42 it may actually improve our relations with our neighbors to the north and south, as we'll have to cooperate to make that happen 01:54:05 Tony Blair tells us that something like 01:54:05 90% of the heroin in the world comes from Afghanistan 01:54:30 I'm not sure. Apologies to all, but I just see GWB as a one trick pony. 01:54:35 yeah, it's some crazy figure like that. Of course, the taliban actually curtailed production to drive the price up 01:54:45 i don't think GWB is actually running anything. 01:55:02 i'm fairly certain his staff is doing most of the heavy lifting 01:55:04 Illuminati? Skulls and Cross Bones? 01:55:28 Council on Foreign Relations? 01:55:34 (notice that cheney has been invisible & safe, whereas GWB has been hanging out at ball games..) 01:55:38 Bohemian Club? 01:56:11 haha. where are the illuminati when you need them.. 01:56:13 Have you seen the reports that Cheney had been just about to submit his resignation (heart troubles) making 01:56:30 the way for Tom Ridge (all prior to 9/11) 01:56:55 i heard that. Cheney's pump is in a bad, bad way. I hope he's got docs with him at all times. 01:57:21 because he's only got so much good heart muscle left.. if he has another heart attack, they need to catch it quickly/. 01:57:21 I have to laugh, seeing pump made me think: CEO of Haliburton 01:57:26 heh 01:58:22 Anyway, I am worried about SF, it's a beautiful town, seemingly an obvious choice. 01:58:51 Also, Berkeley is such a magnet for various few points, and all sorts of nationalities and legal and illegal aliens 01:58:58 yeah. though if something happened in SF, it would be interestin to see what happens to berkeley.. 01:59:17 that I have been surprised that San Diego and not Berkeley was the site of a terror cell. 01:59:27 uh, i'm not that interested in finding out. 01:59:39 well, SD is so close to the mexican border 01:59:42 god knows what's going on there 02:00:03 especially since we often have an offshore flow 02:00:12 sending the fallout from SF into our hills. 02:00:43 oops.. looks like DeCSS was deemed to be "free speech" 02:01:03 nice to see our supreme court isn't totally bought & paid for. 02:01:06 pretty neat too, but just for purposes of blocking a prior restraint prelim injunction. 02:02:27 http://www.salon.com/tech/letters/2001/11/01/nail_clippers/index.html 02:02:51 I'm sooo glad the republicans defeated the bill to make security a federal responsibility 02:03:54 how's this scary scenario grab you? send 30 al qaida interns to Zaire, Kenya, Uganda for a year or two 02:04:03 get them jobs driving ambulances, or not, 02:04:24 get them an open ticket to NYC, London, LA, SF, Chicago, 02:04:33 and wait for an ebola outbreak. 02:04:35 ... 02:04:55 could happen, but ebola doesn't scare me 02:04:58 as much as smallpox. 02:05:13 ebola is not as "successful" a pathogen as smallpox 02:05:14 Yes, but I think that it might be easier to obtain ebola than smallpox, 02:05:32 true, although it's alleged that there are about 10 countries who never got rid of their smallpox supply 02:05:34 including cuba. 02:05:51 it's also much safer for al qaida to finance ebola experiments abroad than to risk the air supply of the cave. 02:06:12 haha. well, it looks like they won't have to worry much longer about their air supply in the cave. 02:06:16 we're taking care of that for them. 02:06:24 I sure hope so. 02:06:37 http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/STRIKE_MAIN.html 02:06:52 if you believe the military, i think they've narrowed down the locations. 02:07:21 yes, i heard they think he's in 20 square miles in the hills. 02:07:24 i don't know if I trust that they've actually got the people we really want in those caves, but whomever is down there is probably not going to come out alive. 02:07:47 I've discounted that somewhat since I've haven't heard of them 24x7 carpet bombing those hills. 02:09:10 If you have FLASH, try this political cartoon: http://www.sfgate.com/comics/fiore/ 02:10:29 i'm a no-flash guy 02:10:30 :-) 02:10:42 Too bad, this one would have been enjoyable too: http://www.ernieshouseofwhoopass.com/shockwave.html?image=talibanphone 02:10:59 in which we sic telemarketers after the taliban 02:11:03 just the URL sounds funny 02:11:30 answering phone: taliban, "how would you like free hbo for a month?" 02:12:21 fiore points out how typical SF joes such as ourselves know all about the taliban, and the northern opposition, and all are 02:12:26 weapon systems, and .... 02:12:35 But that we don't know there's an SF election in 5 days. 02:12:40 haha 02:16:06 I have an MBA question for you. 02:16:39 We all know the most valuable part of the MBA is the _______ ? 02:17:15 uh oh 02:17:29 sounds like a joke is about to come down... 02:17:53 is this a serious question? 02:17:59 No. Not really. Just getting some advice in an oblique manner. 02:18:08 (although do check out http://www.ernieshouseofwhoopass.com/sidepics/pumpkinblow.jpg) 02:18:09 the best part? 02:18:21 No, I said the most valuable part. 02:18:24 aha 02:18:33 most valuable part... 02:18:35 hmm..... 02:18:50 i suppose the network of people that I built. 02:19:11 Bingo. Damn, that means I have to attend an alumni event tonight. 02:19:17 haha 02:19:32 I need to find the "face" book so I can pretend to know these folks. 02:19:40 at least at the good schools, they stress it to ya from the moment you arrive 02:19:44 it's pretty creepy. 02:20:01 very different from the other degrees i've gotten 02:20:09 yeah, they sure did that where i went, but being married, it was difficult to do all the networking i needed to. 02:20:13 Very very true. 02:20:28 first day we started, the dean addressed us: 02:21:00 "you may not realize it, but this is your home. It will always be your home. The people around you are your family. This is always a place you can return to, and draw strength from..." 02:21:21 That's good, except I can always find food and borrow some money from the folks at home. 02:21:21 "so no matter how far away all of you go, remember, that your center will always be here." 02:21:25 haha 02:21:45 in some sense, though, he was right. 02:21:53 I find the network mainly to be another source of penis size comparison. 02:21:56 now that the economy is shitting itself, it seems like more of us are back at "home base" 02:22:02 (mine's 9 inches) 02:22:12 michigan is a little bit different than most, I think b/c it's in the midwest 02:22:18 = no attitude ;-) 02:22:50 well here it's best dot com job, and best house in the berkeley hills.... 02:22:59 lots of attitude. 02:23:14 haha 02:23:20 yeah, i can only imagine 02:23:32 stanford MBAs were some of the biggest pricks on wheels i've ever met. 02:23:35 don't imagine, it really is 9 inches. 02:23:38 haha 02:24:05 some but not all. i'll tell you my biggest uneasiness though. 02:24:21 i just don't dress like mbas. No matter how hard I try. 02:24:28 haha 02:24:44 I don't have the clean shaven face, or the ultra short haircut, 02:24:49 that's OK. I usually walk around town wearing surgical scrubs, a t-shirt, and sneakers. 02:24:52 or the million dollar clothes. 02:25:08 i feel almost like homer simpson on "do as you feel day", when he wore a monk's robes. 02:25:11 hazmat has quit 02:25:29 yeah, well that's me most days. 02:25:45 i usually only dress up when i'm fairly certain it's important to. 02:25:51 doing the VC work, i'd look positively heinous 02:25:56 b/c it was mostly phone meetings. 02:27:52 Well I actually need to hit the shower and shave or something so I can do the network. Luckily, as usual, 02:28:05 they've picked just about the worse restaurant and bar in town. 02:29:24 I'd better go, I'll talk to you (all) later. 02:29:28 cool! have fun! 02:29:29 bye. 02:29:33 jerryasher has quit 02:33:56 * AaronSw disconnects 02:36:02 * AaronSw reconnects 03:01:56 talli has joined #openacs 03:02:04 hey guys 03:12:40 talli has quit 03:23:48 docwolf has quit 03:31:44 * AaronSw disconnects 03:32:19 * AaronSw reconnects 04:16:43 * AaronSw disconnects 04:17:03 * AaronSw reconnects 07:42:49 AaronSw is now known as AaronSw|sleep 07:42:54 AaronSw|sleep is now known as AaronSw 08:05:38 djg has joined #openacs 08:27:06 rbm has quit 08:27:13 rbm has joined #openacs 08:35:02 [GlobalNotice] We're presently moving services between servers. There will be a short netsplit and services will be restored. Thank you, have a nice day. 08:35:20 AaronSw has quit 08:35:20 djg has quit 08:35:33 AaronSw has joined #openacs 08:35:33 djg has joined #openacs 08:35:52 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 09:02:45 hazmat has joined #openacs 09:10:56 hazmat has quit 10:42:12 davidw has joined #openacs 10:42:38 you guys should hang out on #tcl some, too:-) 11:09:21 davidw has left #openacs 11:39:01 davb has quit 13:32:32 graszew has joined #openacs 13:50:55 graszew has quit 14:05:24 davb has joined #openacs 14:18:53 graszew has joined #openacs 14:56:03 graszew has quit 14:58:00 graszew has joined #openacs 15:04:20 graszew has quit 15:24:40 * AaronSw disconnects 15:29:59 morning 15:37:49 hi 15:40:03 hey Dave 15:40:10 so quiet here today 15:40:25 Dave, is there a page with adp syntax? 15:40:34 I can't seem to find it on the aolserver.com/docs page 15:40:43 i know eq is equal 15:40:49 i'm looking for less than and greater than 15:41:35 That is OpenACS templating. ADP doesn't have any custom tags built it. Check your /doc/acs-templating 15:41:42 ok 15:42:00 gt lt I think though 15:42:24 that's what I figured 15:42:48 The template system is really spiffy. Especially multiple 15:43:08 found it 15:43:10 lt and gt 15:43:16 cool. 15:43:45 yeah =) 15:43:48 colors! hehe 15:44:07 Cool. 15:44:25 here's a question for you 15:44:29 ok 15:44:35 There's a function to normalize a modem mac address 15:44:46 ok. 15:44:52 it's in run-query2.tcl 15:44:59 that file also redirects to a history 15:45:13 but the way I have it now is that it doesn't normalize before the redirect 15:45:38 is it better to copy and paste into the other page the normalization function or move my redirect somewhere else 15:46:16 You probably should normalize it first. 15:46:24 But it will work either way :) 15:46:36 i think first way is better 15:46:43 less code and less chance of mistake 15:46:59 Yes. that way you aren't duplicating the code. 15:48:13 excellent 15:49:53 ok 15:49:59 one more quickie 15:50:04 is this a legal tag 15:50:26 if @incident_report.cm_rcv_pwr@ lt value || @incident...@ gt value> 15:51:21 use or instead of || 15:51:25 ok 15:53:22 can I do a tcl "set blah blorg" 15:53:23 ? 15:53:31 inside an adp block? 15:56:00 hmmmm.... 15:56:40 hmmm is right 15:56:42 maybe... like this < if a eq 1><% set blah blorrg %> ?? 15:56:43 and I don't think you can 15:56:54 why would you want to? 15:57:03 Don't want to repeat code 15:57:21 The ADP has to pass its output as form variables. 16:07:09 til has joined #openacs 16:08:00 question 16:08:06 i see 16:08:08 16:08:12 16:08:15 is there a way to put another if in there? 16:08:33 like an elseif 16:13:32 dont know if there is elseif, but you could just put another inside the 16:14:12 you mean like 16:14:22 y 16:17:45 can i use parenthesis in there? 16:18:04 I need something like if (a and b) or (c and d) then do thing 16:32:00 hang on... 16:32:13 it works it works! heheheehe 16:32:54 here is what the doc says "Compound expressions can be created by combining terms with the and and or keywords, as illustrated above. Any number of statements may be connected in this fashion. There is no way to group statements to change the order of evaluation. 16:33:34 yeah i saw that 16:38:01 odd 16:38:06 I can't set the background color of a page 16:39:18 hmmmm.. that is strange. 16:39:22 Oh 16:39:23 let me guess 16:39:29 the master template overrides my page settings 16:39:40 possibly. 16:40:11 well shit 16:40:24 You want just one page to be a different color, or all of them? 16:41:29 yes 16:41:33 well 16:41:36 not sure yet 16:42:04 right now, yeah 16:57:35 which? :) 17:19:58 I want the master template to have a different color 17:24:15 Oh. That's easy. 17:24:48 Well =) 17:24:52 Easy for you maybe! lol 17:25:13 I am looking. It appears that you can have a per-package setting for background color. 17:25:50 otherwise do [set parameters] on / in the site-map. 17:26:25 oh 17:26:28 ok 17:27:17 I think there is a way to setup a package parameter to override the default. 17:28:09 ok 17:28:12 question 17:28:29 Say I have a bunch of procs (already done for me) to make table rows and tables 17:28:36 ok. 17:28:43 is there a way to use them in my package? So the interface is the same from the old script 17:29:08 yeah, stuff em in snmp-more-procs.tcl 17:29:21 ok 17:29:23 and then? 17:29:24 all tcl files have to be -init.tcl or -procs.tcl or they won't get loaded. 17:29:34 It will load when the server starts. 17:29:42 I am not sure how they work. 17:29:51 You might want to register ADP tags to call them. 17:30:00 yeah that's what I would like 17:30:16 BTW, you can go to the APM and pick your package then go to Manage Parameters to add a new paramter to your package. 17:33:07 I am looking to see if there is an ACS facility to make new tags or if you just use the AOLserver stuff. 17:33:55 ok 17:41:28 i found Compound expressions can be created by combining terms with the and and or keywords, as illustrated above. Any number of statements may be connected in this fashion. There is no way to group statements to change the order of evaluation. 17:41:29 oop 17:41:40 doc_register_adptag 17:42:11 not sure, the documentation sucks. 17:42:49 heh 17:43:31 I think it takes the tag name and proc name to call when that tag is encountered. 17:44:59 * davb thinks Psychephylax should write a book and sell it about customizing OpenACS :) 17:45:09 and with that.....to lunch! 17:48:00 heh 18:14:36 djg has quit 18:18:21 talli has joined #openacs 18:18:29 hey guys 18:18:34 hi talli 18:20:10 how is openacs.org v4 coming? 18:26:14 coming along... i'll actually be writing something up for you today. 18:26:22 sorry about the delay... i've been ill all week 18:26:57 No problem... 18:27:30 I have been trying to learn how to program so I actually know what I am doing. 18:29:26 talli: I am reading now about Habitat for Humanity. Sounds like they are not up on technology. 18:29:40 oh yeah? how so? 18:30:02 Hard to say... I just read it on some weblog. I would have to actually visit them to see what they really need. 18:30:18 http://judithburton.weblogger.com/2001/10/12 18:31:03 Sounds like its the local outfits, the web site has a nice donation page. 18:32:56 markd2 has joined #openacs 18:34:47 I'll have to find out anyway. It is a organization I have always thought about working with. I might as well use my technology knowledge to help out. 18:34:51 hi markd2! 18:35:35 cro has joined #openacs 18:35:44 howdy 18:35:56 I'm looking for docs on the format of the .xql files. 18:36:00 hello 18:36:16 Hi cro. hold on... 18:36:23 ok 18:37:01 there is this: http://openacs.org/4/query-dispatcher which has an example. 18:37:31 It is pretty simple. 18:37:47 I see 18:37:48 I 18:37:50 oops 18:38:03 I'm thinking about queries for inserting clobs into an Oracle table 18:38:14 the dml statement needs a different syntax 18:39:08 like db_dml statement_name statement -bind ... -clob 18:39:11 or some such 18:39:19