IRC log of openacs on 2001-11-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:09 [AaronSw]

Wouldn't that make it worse?

00:00:12 [AaronSw]

Aaah, my burns...

00:00:16 [vinod]

oops

00:00:20 [hazmat]

* hazmat now knows their are fates worse than death

00:00:27 [vinod]

lol

00:01:38 [rbm]

AaronSw: That would automatically transform your burns into "Enterprise Burns"

00:02:12 [AaronSw]

Ooh.

00:02:16 [AaronSw]

But they still hurt.

00:02:18 [AaronSw]

Owwww!

00:02:20 [hazmat]

i don't give a *bean* about your burns

00:02:53 [rbm]

You know, like saying that "Enterprise Collaboration Management" != "Toolkit for web communities"

00:07:52 [talli]

talli has joined #openacs

00:08:10 [talli]

hey guys

00:08:58 [rbm]

can someone comment on this page: http://fslc.usu.edu/forum2001/index2.html

00:09:28 [talli]

looks good to me

00:10:03 [rbm]

I still need to add some content.

00:10:15 [rbm]

Any chance some of you will come to our OpenACS booth?

00:10:18 [vinod]

rbm: it comes out too wide for me. i have to scroll horizontally

00:10:38 [rbm]

vinod: Hmmm. I guess the top banner is a little too wide

00:11:15 [vinod]

looks cool otherwise!

00:11:33 [rbm]

vinod: I'm working on that

00:14:24 [talli]

rbm: did you build this in a table?

00:14:50 [vinod]

vinod has quit

00:15:44 [rbm]

talli: Yes. I don't know any other way.

00:15:59 [rbm]

* rbm reiterates that his graphics abilities are comparable to those of an amoeba

00:16:00 [talli]

yeah, that's the way to do it

00:16:22 [talli]

did you specify the width of the table, though? in pixels?

00:17:09 [rbm]

I am now

00:17:39 [talli]

i don't think you have to.

00:18:07 [talli]

it works now, although the "keynote speaker" cell doesn't expand with the text beneath it

00:18:29 [vinod]

vinod has joined #openacs

00:20:01 [Psychephylax]

back

00:20:06 [Psychephylax]

Hi talli vinod

00:22:32 [talli]

rbm: perfecto

00:22:42 [Psychephylax]

?

00:22:50 [rbm]

talli: grazi

00:23:06 [talli]

Psychephylax: hey

00:23:20 [vinod]

looks good rbm

00:23:23 [rbm]

(or "gracias", depending whether you were speaking italian or spanish)

00:23:25 [Psychephylax]

Someone send me an e-mail please

00:23:33 [Psychephylax]

something isn't right

00:23:38 [rbm]

* rbm hands psyche an e-mail

00:23:42 [Psychephylax]

I get 2 mails for the proice of one

00:23:47 [Psychephylax]

nick@neverhere.com will work

00:24:00 [davb]

davb has joined #OpenACS

00:24:08 [vinod]

hey davb!

00:24:16 [davb]

Hello everyone!

00:24:23 [Psychephylax]

Hi dave

00:24:49 [k2pts]

hi dave

00:25:58 [Psychephylax]

rofl

00:26:07 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax reads Vinods email

00:26:16 [Psychephylax]

Awwww, I was hoping to make money fast!!!

00:26:18 [vinod]

thought you'd like that

00:26:29 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax feels cheated

00:26:53 [Psychephylax]

Oh, I have almost a functional demo on my project! with OpenACS =)

00:26:57 [vinod]

* vinod promises to send Psychephylax my next MAKE MONEY FAST email

00:27:02 [Psychephylax]

cool

00:27:09 [Psychephylax]

send one to nblyumbe@optonline.net

00:27:25 [Psychephylax]

Hmmmm

00:27:27 [Psychephylax]

it does it!

00:27:28 [Psychephylax]

WHYYYYY

00:27:56 [Psychephylax]

Grrrrrrrrrr

00:28:00 [Psychephylax]

ok

00:28:04 [Psychephylax]

this is upsetting me

00:28:11 [Psychephylax]

time to go purchase some new furniture

00:29:17 [Psychephylax]

i'm going out to buy a new comfy chair for myself

00:29:31 [Psychephylax]

bbl

00:31:54 [talli]

i just got Beginning Databases with POstgreSQL

00:32:06 [talli]

it has a secion explaining how to install PG on Win!

00:32:09 [talli]

thank god!

00:32:16 [talli]

i'll submit a review later

00:32:18 [hazmat]

talli: why?

00:32:27 [talli]

because i can't fucking do it

00:32:35 [talli]

why did i get the book, you mean?

00:32:41 [hazmat]

yes

00:32:41 [talli]

because i don't know anything about dbs

00:32:56 [hazmat]

lol, well you've come to the right place :)

00:33:30 [hazmat]

bboard quote: my relational skills are so weak that i hesistate to suggest in front of such an august crowd

00:33:48 [talli]

relational or relationship?

00:34:02 [talli]

i don't think the openacs bboards is where you should go for lady advice, kapil...

00:34:16 [talli]

ok, i gotta go scare some people.

00:34:17 [vinod]

darn

00:34:20 [talli]

it's halloween!

00:34:22 [talli]

later guys

00:34:27 [talli]

talli has quit

00:34:28 [hazmat]

cheers

00:47:30 [vinod]

vinod has quit

00:49:30 [rbm]

anyone here?

00:49:37 [k2pts]

yeap

00:49:38 [davb]

Hi

00:49:50 [davb]

There are alot of postgresql books now. Well more than 5

00:50:00 [rbm]

I know it's lame to ask this, but take a look at http://fslc.usu.edu/forum2001/index2.html

00:50:12 [rbm]

and tell me if the headers are better in blue or greeen

00:50:31 [rbm]

The green matches the forum logo

00:50:43 [k2pts]

davb: i've sent the latest workflow package. I didn't test the oracle version so I would appreciate any feedback.

00:50:43 [davb]

Looks good to me.

00:50:53 [davb]

k2pts: Ok.

00:51:04 [rbm]

davb: Do the headers look better in green or blue?

00:51:23 [davb]

hmmm.

00:52:39 [k2pts]

need to go off guys.bye.

00:52:40 [davb]

The Forum Schedule looks good green. It looks ok with the green on the side and blue for Bruce Perens.

00:52:44 [k2pts]

k2pts has left #openacs

00:52:44 [davb]

Bye

00:54:12 [hazmat]

hazmat has quit

00:54:19 [davb]

I think I like the Green better, because the blue in the logo is the text not the background. So the header with green background and white text works better with that logo.

00:54:47 [rbm]

davb: okay. thanks.

00:54:55 [davb]

np.

00:54:56 [rbm]

But leave the perens side as blue?

00:55:37 [davb]

I think the blue might look better just blue text, with a white background similar to the top.

00:55:50 [davb]

Or just use the same green background with white text.

00:55:52 [davb]

:)

00:56:04 [rbm]

hmm

00:56:10 [rbm]

reload it now

00:56:39 [davb]

it looks the same...

00:56:51 [rbm]

err. now :)

00:57:33 [davb]

Ok. I think I like that better, but :) its the same size as the Forum Schedule so I am not sure which to look at first.

00:57:50 [davb]

(its not a good idea to ask me for design advice, you might get more than you bargained for :)

00:58:04 [rbm]

You mean the font size is the same?

00:58:09 [davb]

Yes.

00:58:22 [rbm]

Okay. Let me do some magic to make them different

00:58:43 [davb]

heh. You should have Small, Medium, and Large in a hierachry of importance.

00:59:34 [rbm]

okay. Made them smaller

01:01:33 [davb]

Thats good.

01:01:37 [rbm]

excellent

01:01:47 [rbm]

now I need to rephrase things

01:02:13 [davb]

That is not my area of expertise:) It works good in a smaller window too.

01:02:28 [rbm]

heheh

01:03:21 [davb]

* davb forgets his oracle passwords again!

01:04:12 [davb]

That is a really cool event.

01:04:23 [vinod]

vinod has joined #openacs

01:04:28 [davb]

We don't have anything like that around here.

01:04:41 [davb]

I really do need to start a LUG.

01:05:06 [davb]

Dumb oracle question. How can I see what databases are available?

01:05:36 [rbm]

select * from user_databases (I think)

01:13:19 [davb]

hmm doesn't seem to work. Where is markd2 when you need him?

01:15:09 [davb]

oh yeah, the dbpassword in in the aolserver config file :)

01:15:41 [rbm]

huh

01:15:46 [rbm]

s/huh/heh/

01:16:09 [davb]

The password and dbname I used lat time are in my aolserver config file. So I don't have to remember them :)

01:16:16 [davb]

s/lat/last

01:22:18 [graszew]

graszew has joined #openacs

01:23:14 [docwolf]

docwolf has joined #openacs

01:23:20 [davb]

Hi graszew, docwolf

01:23:30 [docwolf]

hola

01:23:58 [graszew]

hi

01:26:06 [docwolf]

i installed winXP tonite

01:26:12 [docwolf]

it was... umm... interesting

01:27:22 [vinod]

* vinod is wondering if docwolf is now flying around like the people in the commercials

01:27:36 [docwolf]

haha

01:27:49 [docwolf]

it is possibly the most disconcerting piece of software i've ever installed

01:28:20 [docwolf]

it should be renamed "Stepford OS"

01:28:32 [docwolf]

it's really pretty, tries to hold you hand throughout

01:28:33 [markd2]

markd2 has joined #openacs

01:28:34 [docwolf]

but...

01:28:42 [docwolf]

it's always doing weird shit in the background

01:28:51 [docwolf]

constantly reaching out to the net

01:28:57 [rbm]

docwolf: oh really?

01:28:58 [markd2]

* markd2 constanly reaches out for mney

01:29:01 [docwolf]

so, like windows randomly pop up

01:29:14 [docwolf]

"i see that your DVD software may be out of date. Why don't you try this update" (with a link)

01:29:28 [rbm]

"Faster than a ray of light I woooonder... how much more I will be screwed by Microsnot"

01:29:47 [docwolf]

it also tries to get you to sign up for a passport.

01:29:51 [docwolf]

over and over again.

01:30:04 [docwolf]

MSN-IM sits in the tray

01:30:11 [rbm]

docwolf: Of course. That's the whole point of XP.

01:30:13 [docwolf]

by default... i have no idea how to turn it off.

01:30:48 [docwolf]

and, like once an hour, a "cartoon bubble" will appear over it "to enjoy instant messenger, you must sign up for a passport. Passports are the most convenient way to surf the web. Sign up now!" (with a link)

01:31:33 [rbm]

I read that Windows Media Player purposefully degrades the quality of MP3s while playing them, to get people to switch to .wmf

01:31:35 [vinod]

persuasion by repetition

01:32:30 [docwolf]

the whole "eXPerience" is really sort of creepy. I mean, it's a stable OS, seems to work about as well as Win2k, but... the surveillance aspect is unnerving.

01:33:18 [rbm]

I like how Michael Tieman put it: "Windows eXtra Proprietary"

01:33:42 [vinod]

have you tried installing netscape or AIM?

01:33:54 [docwolf]

nope -- i'm scared to. :-)

01:33:57 [vinod]

haha

01:34:22 [docwolf]

I'm not putting it on my primary machine. I just can't risk it.

01:34:32 [rbm]

"This browser does not allow us to fully screw you, therefore you can't use it. Click here to download Internet Explorer 6"

01:34:42 [docwolf]

which is the bottom line, i suppose.... If I can't trust the OS, i can't really rely on it.

01:35:27 [docwolf]

I have a feeling though that WinXP is a watershed release; it's probably got more mal-ware built in than any other OS in history.

01:35:39 [rbm]

I'm so sick of TechTV doing everything XP since Oct 25th

01:35:53 [docwolf]

the thoughtful folks at the DOJ must have steam coming out their ears.

01:36:22 [rbm]

docwolf: Wha? The folks at the DOJ are enjoying every minute. Bush's on M$'s pay role.

01:37:45 [docwolf]

haha. while some may be on the payroll, remember that the rank-and-file at the DOJ who actually built and prosecuted the case are still around, and probably very unhappy.

01:39:24 [davb]

hi markd2.

01:39:39 [rbm]

The U.S. govt is the _only_ customer big enough to break the M$ crap. But they won't do it.

01:39:41 [markd2]

hiya

01:40:19 [rbm]

instead they keep saying "Bring it on baby!"

01:40:44 [davb]

does anyone mind reminding me which environment variables I need for ORACLE? My oracle driver is not loading that libclntsh cannot be found. :)

01:40:46 [docwolf]

rbm: m$ may self-destruct on their own. If they don't continue with 20% growth, their share price will go down. Once that happens, the plot begins to unravel.

01:41:03 [rbm]

docwolf: I wish that would be so.

01:41:17 [docwolf]

they are also being hit from all sides, almost like the germans at the end of WWII.

01:41:25 [rbm]

I simply don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes I'm ashamed of the industry I chose to be on.

01:41:35 [docwolf]

the US gov't, Sun (StarOffice), any number of free/cheap UNIX clones, etc..

01:41:42 [markd2]

davb: LD_LIBRARY_PATH

01:41:46 [markd2]

set it to $ORACLE_HOME/lib

01:42:12 [davb]

it is. I wonder if its my RUN script for daemontools. That runs as ROOT right?

01:42:23 [markd2]

don't know

01:42:23 [vinod]

did docwolf just invoke godwin's law? ;-)

01:42:26 [davb]

so I probably have to set it in there...

01:42:29 [markd2]

LOL

01:42:29 [davb]

heh

01:42:32 [docwolf]

haha

01:43:09 [docwolf]

anyway, my final review of XP: "The stepford OS". Pretty, but really, really creepy.

01:43:38 [vinod]

docwolf: have you seen Mac OS X?

01:43:57 [docwolf]

vinod: i've only played with it in a store

01:43:58 [jerryasher]

jerryasher has joined #openacs

01:44:04 [vinod]

i heard that there were alot of similarities - interface-wise

01:44:14 [markd2]

important safety tip

01:44:30 [markd2]

when you're debugging creating new members on a production site

01:44:34 [markd2]

remember to remove or disable those users

01:44:47 [docwolf]

vinod: winXP looks sort of like a teletubbies cartoon

01:44:52 [markd2]

otherwise when the company decides to send their membership "amazing travel deals"

01:44:54 [vinod]

lol

01:44:58 [markd2]

you'll get 35 (and counting) messages

01:45:58 [vinod]

markd2: doh!

01:46:13 [markd2]

* markd2 unsubscribes to each on individually

01:46:38 [davb]

hi jerryasher

01:46:47 [jerryasher]

Hi Dave.

01:47:09 [davb]

hmmm. that did not help (adding export ORACLE_HOME etc... to the RUN script.

01:47:45 [markd2]

that's always fixed it fr me

01:48:04 [markd2]

on a page or a startup proc, do an ns_log notice [exec echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH]

01:48:11 [markd2]

and see what the process thinks its environment is

01:48:25 [davb]

thanks!

01:48:41 [Psychephylax]

back

01:49:41 [markd2]

bach

01:49:49 [vinod]

mozart

01:50:23 [rbm]

Mozart Rocks!

01:51:10 [markd2]

I kinda like Stravinski

01:51:28 [rbm]

The Marriage of Figaro is my favourite.

01:51:38 [markd2]

in the dorm, whenever the guys in the next room played stuff too loud, I'd put on the Rite of Spring

01:52:23 [rbm]

I like Hayden, Beethoven, Bach too

01:52:25 [davb]

* davb forgets about it and runs AOLserver manually instead of with daemontools

01:52:40 [Psychephylax]

I have returned chairless

01:52:46 [davb]

oh no!

01:52:51 [Psychephylax]

Indeed!

01:52:54 [Psychephylax]

I am very upset

01:53:12 [Psychephylax]

Anyone care to enlighten me with their chair expertise?

01:53:19 [davb]

Freedom Chair

01:53:24 [davb]

* davb gets the link

01:53:39 [vinod]

1) make sure it's under you 2) lower ass until it makes contact 3) recline

01:53:44 [Psychephylax]

I am not paying 600$ for a chair

01:53:54 [jerryasher]

jerryasher is now known as ishmael

01:54:02 [rbm]

Psychephylax: how about $1000L

01:54:04 [rbm]

s/L/?/

01:54:07 [davb]

That is an incerdible chair!

01:54:15 [ishmael]

ishmael is now known as queequeg

01:54:31 [Psychephylax]

yah

01:54:39 [Psychephylax]

And how will I justify paying 600$ for a chair?

01:54:50 [markd2]

* markd2 uses a folding metal chair

01:54:58 [Psychephylax]

No seriosly :(

01:55:05 [markd2]

aerons hurt my back, no matter how I adjust them

01:55:09 [Psychephylax]

I was thinking a nice leather chair with some sort of a tilt

01:55:13 [vinod]

markd2: is that the one you use for your wwf battles?

01:55:20 [Psychephylax]

rofl

01:55:28 [markd2]

heh

01:55:39 [markd2]

actually, I'm serious about the folding metal chair (well, it has a little padding n it)

01:55:44 [vinod]

* vinod sits on his living room couch

01:55:46 [markd2]

the aD DC office kept a metal chair in the closet for my visit

01:55:49 [markd2]

visits

01:56:11 [Psychephylax]

ok

01:56:24 [Psychephylax]

I want to know why I get 2 e-mails for every one someone sends me

01:58:06 [markd2]

inflation

01:58:26 [Psychephylax]

no

01:58:28 [Psychephylax]

I got 4 this time

01:59:02 [vinod]

super-inflation?

02:00:39 [davb]

I got mine at staples, $59

02:01:01 [Psychephylax]

odd

02:01:02 [graszew]

graszew has quit

02:04:47 [davb]

Psychephylax: "You keep saying that word, I do not think it means what you think it means" :)

02:05:33 [vinod]

inconceivable!

02:05:38 [davb]

hah!

02:05:53 [davb]

* davb is glad at least one person gets the reference :)

02:06:13 [davb]

Yeah Oracle datamodel is loaded!

02:06:38 [Psychephylax]

what word? odd?

02:07:28 [davb]

yeah.

02:07:30 [Psychephylax]

odd (d)

02:07:31 [Psychephylax]

adj. odd·er, odd·est

02:07:32 [Psychephylax]

Deviating from what is ordinary, usual, or expected; strange or peculiar: an odd name; odd behavior. See Synonyms at strange

02:07:35 [davb]

heh

02:07:48 [davb]

Apparently Psychephylax did not see Princess Bride

02:08:17 [vinod]

inconceivable!

02:08:23 [rbm]

2 days for Shrek to go to rental stores

02:08:51 [davb]

We pre-ordered it. I hope it is shipped early.

02:08:56 [Psychephylax]

heh

02:09:01 [davb]

(on DVD, just got the player)

02:09:05 [Psychephylax]

Cool

02:09:19 [Psychephylax]

Dave, I demand you purchase the Simpsons 1st Season DVD =)

02:09:42 [davb]

Oh yeah, I'll put it on the list.

02:10:30 [markd2]

My name is Homer Montoya. You killed my father. prepare to d... oooh, donuts!

02:10:39 [vinod]

haha

02:10:43 [davb]

rotl

02:10:46 [davb]

oops

02:11:27 [docwolf]

hey vinod, you sign up for that loser conference yet? ;-)

02:11:47 [vinod]

docwolf: not yet - i don't think i'm gonna be able to make it :(

02:12:04 [Psychephylax]

rofl

02:12:19 [Psychephylax]

I'm going to learn Java on my own

02:12:27 [rbm]

docwolf: So, are you coming to this year's forum? :)

02:12:31 [Psychephylax]

I didn't learn it well enough in college those no good bastards

02:12:41 [rbm]

I think I forgot Java already. it's been a while.

02:12:47 [Psychephylax]

yeah

02:12:51 [Psychephylax]

That's what I mean

02:12:54 [Psychephylax]

I forgot what little of it I knew

02:13:02 [davb]

Anyone have any good new music recommendations? (lets stay off topic if we can :)

02:13:09 [docwolf]

rbm: when is the conference? i've got to goto this medical conference..

02:13:12 [vinod]

my cousin has a wk off in december, so i'm gonna hang out with him in SF - can't take 2 wks off in a row :-)

02:13:14 [rbm]

Lots and lots of casting. Geesh.

02:13:21 [rbm]

docwolf: Nov. 15th.

02:13:51 [rbm]

docwolf: http://fslc.usu.edu/forum2001/index2.html

02:14:14 [vinod]

* vinod thinks docwolf should arrange an openacs social in florida during the middle of winter

02:14:20 [vinod]

:-)

02:14:22 [Psychephylax]

heh

02:14:26 [queequeg]

Hmm. Around the same time, is anyone visiting comdex this year?

02:14:27 [Psychephylax]

NYC would be easier for me =)

02:14:48 [Psychephylax]

I got Vinods phone number here! muahaha

02:14:59 [Psychephylax]

Hey Vinod, I don't suppose you watch the Simpsons =)

02:15:40 [docwolf]

vinod: isn't everyone afraid to come here? we're buried in anthrax, after all ;-)

02:15:56 [vinod]

Psychephylax: on occasion :-)

02:16:05 [vinod]

docwolf: anthrax shmanthrax - i'll bring cipro

02:16:11 [rbm]

queequeg: I was thinking of going to Comdex again

02:16:30 [docwolf]

Comdex should be fascinating this year.

02:16:30 [Psychephylax]

Have you ever seen the episode where homer steals Professor Frink's auto-dialer?

02:16:40 [vinod]

yup

02:16:41 [rbm]

docwolf: why?

02:16:47 [queequeg]

rbm: but I think it's the same time as your conference

02:17:01 [queequeg]

docwolf, yes why?

02:17:02 [docwolf]

rbm: the industry is in the crapper, so it will be interesting to see how up/downbeat everyone is

02:17:14 [rbm]

queequeg: Comdex is Nov 12-16. Our forum is Nov. 15th only. I don't need to stay the whole week in Comdex.

02:17:20 [docwolf]

last year it was still pretty packed, though the linux pavillion wasn't as crowded as i thought it would be.

02:17:37 [rbm]

s/in/at/

02:18:48 [docwolf]

has anyone checked out hotel vacancy for comdex? it's a good proxy for the activity level.

02:19:15 [queequeg]

Not yet. I should too. I "won" a VIP pass to a conference being held at the same time

02:19:23 [queequeg]

and I'm trying to determine if I should go or not.

02:19:45 [queequeg]

It sounds like the most boring conference in the world.

02:19:52 [queequeg]

It's entirely about CRM.

02:20:01 [docwolf]

queequeg: it depends. I had a blast last year, b/c I was with a bunch of arsdigitans

02:20:09 [docwolf]

and hung out with the ximian dudes (nat, etc.)

02:20:28 [queequeg]

Well, see, that's why I'm asking here to see if anyone is going....

02:20:28 [docwolf]

if you know people, it's a huge amount of fun. Just go gamble.

02:21:18 [queequeg]

queequeg is now known as starbucks

02:21:53 [Psychephylax]

hmmm

02:21:55 [Psychephylax]

that sounds great

02:22:08 [docwolf]

mmm.. stimulants...

02:22:30 [starbucks]

starbucks is now known as moby

02:22:34 [moby]

see http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/m/moby.html

02:23:02 [moby]

I think I need to read the novel.

02:23:20 [moby]

I read a few articles about the real story the novel is thought to be based on.

02:23:21 [docwolf]

moby was also a file transfer protocol

02:24:04 [docwolf]

(i'm ashamed to remember that fact..)

02:24:51 [davb]

Wow things are bad. Someone just emailed me his resume looking for a job!

02:25:02 [markd2]

yow

02:25:13 [markd2]

* markd2 takes davb off his resume spam list

02:25:24 [davb]

heh

02:26:34 [vinod]

vinod has quit

02:26:47 [Psychephylax]

heh

02:28:22 [davb]

Psychephylax: do you have the bladerunner dvd?

02:28:49 [moby]

No, but in his memories he does.

02:28:56 [Psychephylax]

nope

02:29:04 [Psychephylax]

I have The Net though!

02:29:42 [davb]

heh

02:29:50 [davb]

* davb orders Blade Runner on DVD

02:31:09 [davb]

and the Matrix...

02:32:13 [vinod]

vinod has joined #openacs

02:32:56 [rbm]

Hmmm. The Matrix

02:33:43 [davb]

I already have both on VHS, but they are definitely movies to get on DVD

02:34:03 [moby]

Hey! These guys understand RSS and the dublin core extension (because they print out the dates)

02:34:03 [moby]

http://soapclient.com/RSS/RSS.sri?requestname=RSSGet&uri=http://www.theashergroup.com/demos/rss/openacs-forums.1.00.xml

02:34:24 [moby]

Only folks I can find who print the date in the xml out correctly.

02:34:33 [davb]

Interesting.

02:34:41 [rbm]

The Matrix DVD is _the_ best DVD I have. It has a ton of extra features.

02:34:53 [markd2]

Hopefully lots of extra shots of Trinity

02:35:05 [davb]

excellent.

02:35:15 [davb]

Ok what are other essential DVD's I need to get?

02:35:32 [markd2]

Pat Boone Carneige Hall VH-1 special

02:35:34 [davb]

moby: what does everyone else do with the dates?

02:35:38 [rbm]

markd2: :)

02:35:57 [davb]

* davb is sure markd2 has that one. Although he's not sure markd2 has a DVD player :)

02:36:10 [markd2]

* markd2 does not have a DVD player

02:36:11 [markd2]

yet

02:36:14 [moby]

They drop them. In the RSS 0.91 spec, folks just jam the dates into the description.

02:36:16 [markd2]

The complete Prisoner is out on DVD now

02:36:22 [markd2]

and a B5 movie is coming out next month

02:36:39 [moby]

But AaronSw convinced me to separate them out when doing RSS 1.0.

02:36:50 [davb]

Aha.

02:37:00 [AaronSw]

Why moby?

02:37:01 [moby]

The complete Prisoner, how many DVDs is that?

02:37:08 [AaronSw]

I mean, why's your nick moby?

02:37:10 [markd2]

10 maybe?

02:37:29 [moby]

It was Ishmael, Queequeg and Starbucks.

02:37:43 [AaronSw]

Heh.

02:37:48 [markd2]

Daddy Starbucks

02:37:53 [markd2]

Little Orphan Annie Get Your Gun

02:38:15 [davb]

* davb reloads the Oracle datamodel, 2nd time so far tonight!

02:38:23 [moby]

There was something moby dickish going on today. I heard about it in several venues.

02:38:38 [davb]

I am annoyed that IE is the only browser that can display XML.

02:38:48 [davb]

that I have seen so far anyway.

02:39:03 [moby]

It does do a nice job of it....

02:39:04 [markd2]

make that 39 emails and counting...

02:40:03 [moby]

First American edition published November 14, 1851

02:40:43 [markd2]

oh that's right

02:40:53 [markd2]

I didn't make the book connection with 'moby' befre

02:40:56 [markd2]

just the computer term

02:41:00 [markd2]

silly me

02:41:14 [davb]

crap: We're sorry! Our website is unavailable right now, while we perform System maintenance. We apologize for the inconvenience. Please stop by later today, when our site will be back up and running.

02:41:20 [docwolf]

anyone try the DiamondMax D540X yet?

02:41:28 [davb]

I was ordering DVDs and CDs.. argh

02:41:38 [davb]

Nope.

02:41:42 [moby]

No, I am wondering if an X-10 camera comes with Martha: http://ads.x10.com/yahoo/martha.html

02:41:48 [docwolf]

it's 160 gigs... BURRRP.

02:41:54 [davb]

* davb is really cheap

02:42:05 [Psychephylax]

Grrrrr

02:42:43 [davb]

Oracle runs much faster when you double the ram.

02:42:50 [markd2]

wow

02:42:57 [markd2]

if I try to load that ad directly, it closes after loading

02:43:04 [markd2]

only a brief glimpse a martha

02:43:06 [davb]

not on Mozilla :)

02:43:09 [markd2]

mmm.. martha stewart...

02:43:17 [markd2]

Mothra Stewart

02:43:18 [davb]

What browser are you using markd2?

02:43:24 [markd2]

Netscrape 4.something

02:43:28 [davb]

ARHG!

02:43:32 [moby]

Holy Shit! Mothra Stewart!

02:43:42 [davb]

* davb orders everyone using netscape 4 to install Mozilla 0.9.5 right now!

02:43:44 [markd2]

rook! rook! godzirra!

02:43:46 [moby]

Now that's a horror movie parody I would pay to see.

02:44:02 [markd2]

* markd2 sends davd his powerbook for a processor upgrade

02:44:06 [davb]

oh...

02:44:06 [markd2]

and davb too

02:44:28 [moby]

davb uses gecko

02:44:32 [davb]

Its alot faster now.

02:44:54 [davb]

take about 30mb of ram though.

02:44:57 [AaronSw]

I wish they Galeon for Mac.

02:45:28 [davb]

I should try that again... it was broken last time I tried it, at least on debian.

02:45:58 [AaronSw]

I here a ton of good things about it.

02:46:02 [markd2]

I've got Opera on my os/x box

02:46:25 [rbm]

what was broken on Debian?

02:46:28 [rbm]

Gecko?

02:46:29 [davb]

Opera is not bad, but Mozilla is catching up really fast, and Opera for Linux has a couple of bugs in it.

02:46:32 [rbm]

Is that a package?

02:46:37 [davb]

Galeon. At least it crashed often for me.

02:46:39 [docwolf]

moz 0.9.5 is pretty sweet. Just the ability to control pop-ups makes it worth its weight in gold :-)

02:46:47 [davb]

(yeah it was a package in testing)

02:46:57 [davb]

docwolf: really?

02:47:01 [docwolf]

" user_pref("dom.disable_open_during_load", true); "

02:47:07 [davb]

spiffy.

02:47:16 [docwolf]

that one line saves you endless grief with pop-ups when surfing... unsavory sites.

02:47:28 [moby]

Whoops, gotta go.

02:47:29 [docwolf]

... or so they tell me ;-)

02:47:36 [moby]

moby has quit

02:48:20 [Psychephylax]

hah

02:48:23 [Psychephylax]

java.lang.NullPointerException

02:48:57 [markd2]

java.lang.your.classpath.is.wrong.again.loser.Exception

02:49:06 [davb]

heh

02:49:12 [Psychephylax]

Not.my.application.Exception

02:49:23 [vinod]

docwolf: so i can start surfing those sites again?

02:49:34 [docwolf]

haha

02:49:44 [Psychephylax]

Must.have.upgraded.to.unstable.release.of.jEdit.Exception

02:49:48 [docwolf]

vinod: it's like wearing a suit of armor. you can go to the worst sites on the net without fear ;-)

02:49:57 [vinod]

lol

02:50:14 [markd2]

I told you he's a superhero!

02:50:33 [docwolf]

davb: ROTFL

02:50:37 [vinod]

never doubt markd2

02:50:46 [davb]

strangely timely article

02:51:31 [davb]

although he doesn;t have that Mozilla hint on there...

02:51:59 [docwolf]

mozilla has only really become stable recently. (like 0.9.4 on..)

02:52:15 [davb]

Yes. 0.9.3 was too slow and crashy.

02:52:16 [docwolf]

I use it 100% of the time now... no problems.

02:52:18 [rbm]

It's still _huge_ though.

02:52:22 [davb]

Even the mail is decent on 0.9.5

02:52:33 [markd2]

* markd2 remembers the Talking Moose from the Mac 128K days

02:52:35 [rbm]

I find it slow to render pages. I haven't used 0.9.5 yet though.

02:52:50 [markd2]

The guy who wrote is now a radiologist up in Canada

02:52:56 [docwolf]

rbm: agreed, it's slower than IE. But on a fast machine, the difference is minimal.

02:53:49 [davb]

It is much faster on rendering than 0.9.3 (i skipped 0.9.4)

02:54:07 [davb]

but not quite as fast as Opera on linux.

02:54:24 [docwolf]

between openoffice & mozilla, the end-user apps are getting pretty good

02:54:47 [docwolf]

M$ may finally get some "competition", even if the price is $0.

02:54:58 [vinod]

how about financial stuff - anyone use gnucash yet?

02:55:46 [docwolf]

haven't tried it yet. It's actually a shame that the folks at Quicken won't build a cross-platform version

02:56:13 [rbm]

Quicken has become too dependent on IE

02:56:18 [davb]

They should team up with someone else if they don't want to do it themselves.

02:56:40 [docwolf]

yeah. I think the next 6 months are going to be really interesting. When mozilla hits 1.0, and AOL switches over to it,

02:56:51 [davb]

YEAH! Static-pages still works for oracle.

02:56:57 [davb]

Will they switch?

02:57:04 [docwolf]

and at the same time, OpenOffice/StarOffice will hit 1.0 by Feb/March.

02:57:15 [rbm]

AOL will switch to mozilla?

02:57:19 [davb]

And OpenACS 4 should be released!

02:57:22 [docwolf]

davb: I'm almost certain that if Mozilla actually works properly, they'll switch.

02:57:25 [markd2]

They're using IE because the Netscape code base was so bad

02:57:42 [markd2]

IE was much better factored to be embedded in the client

02:57:46 [docwolf]

And if I ran Sun Microsystems, i'd politely ask AOL if I could bundle StarOffice with all of those miserable AOL disks.

02:58:34 [rbm]

docwolf: That'd be a good idea.

02:58:53 [davb]

what is the default install directory for the APM? for .apm files?

02:59:04 [docwolf]

Imagine, for a second, an "AOL distribution", with a version of Linux, AOL software, Mozilla, and StarOffice... all on 1 free disk.

02:59:06 [davb]

nevermind.

02:59:34 [docwolf]

or bundle it with a $200 PC.

03:00:23 [markd2]

The AOL client is pretty much already running on Linux

03:00:30 [rbm]

markd2: ?

03:00:33 [docwolf]

markd2: ?

03:00:34 [davb]

argh. the APM package-loader is broken for oracle?

03:00:40 [markd2]

the gateway "instant AOL appliance" is embedded linux and mozilla

03:01:13 [docwolf]

markd2: what is this "appliance" of which you speak?

03:01:16 [markd2]

and it's on a Transmeta chip

03:01:22 [davb]

now all we need to do is get them to install OpenACS and AOLserver on it too!

03:01:55 [docwolf]

markd2: if they bundled staroffice, it would be able to do 90% of what "joe average" does with a cheap computer.

03:02:29 [markd2]

* markd2 searches fora page on his pitifully slow connection

03:02:38 [markd2]

http://dc.internet.com/news/article/0,1934,2101_508401,00.html

03:03:13 [docwolf]

it will fail -- $599?? they must be smoking crack

03:03:18 [markd2]

and a picture. http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/overview/0,8826,444883,00.html

03:04:01 [docwolf]

hmm. it's almost a year old. guess it didn't set the world on fire :-(

03:04:21 [markd2]

they're still working on the software, so someone has some glimmer of hope

03:04:23 [davb]

whats getcwd?

03:04:24 [docwolf]

I'm telling ya, get the price-point down to < $300, make it a fully functional PC with linux...

03:04:29 [markd2]

get current working directory

03:04:33 [rbm]

$599?!?!?!

03:04:35 [docwolf]

.. and include the staroffice suite..

03:04:36 [markd2]

don't use it in a threaded environment

03:04:40 [davb]

hmmm doesn;t seem to work

03:04:56 [davb]

is it a program?

03:05:09 [markd2]

it's a C functin

03:05:15 [davb]

shell-init: could not get current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: No such file or directory

03:05:26 [davb]

ok. so its possibly a permissions problem?

03:05:30 [markd2]

yeah

03:05:37 [davb]

its used in the APM installer

03:05:38 [markd2]

or if you've cd'd to a directory, then removed it from another shell

03:05:48 [davb]

nope.

03:06:10 [markd2]

hopefully it's used in a shell script and not in a tcl function

03:06:15 [davb]

yes

03:06:19 [markd2]

good

03:06:29 [rbm]

http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2814683,00.html <-- "Ban Outlook. NOW!"

03:06:33 [davb]

hmmmm. everything looks ok.

03:06:56 [davb]

aha this is the offending command

03:06:58 [davb]

"exec sh -c "cd $tmpdir ; [apm_gunzip_cmd] -c $file_path | [apm_tar_cmd] xf - $info_file""

03:11:09 [markd2]

what's tmpdir, and does it exist?

03:11:22 [davb]

nevermind.

03:11:27 [davb]

I ran nsd with no -u

03:13:52 [davb]

but thanks markd2!

03:15:37 [AaronSw]

davb, how do you generate the chump HTML?

03:15:41 [AaronSw]

is there an ns_xslt?

03:16:07 [davb]

AaronSw: yes. its part of nsxml 1.4 http://acs-misc.sf.net

03:16:18 [AaronSw]

thanks

03:16:23 [davb]

np.

03:17:25 [davb]

Workflow is part of acs-core?

03:20:28 [vinod]

i think so

03:20:29 [davb]

i guess it is.

03:21:04 [davb]

looks like I am loading the datamodel again

03:21:30 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax has quit

03:22:00 [davb]

but tomorrow I think...

03:22:54 [davb]

hmm got that gcwd error again, weird.

03:26:00 [davb]

have fun everyone! Time for me to go

03:26:06 [docwolf]

later davb

03:26:06 [markd2]

l8r

03:26:29 [davb]

davb has quit

03:29:34 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax has joined #openacs

03:33:54 [Psychephylax]

Mark, you awake?

03:34:01 [markd2]

yep

03:34:05 [Psychephylax]

Ok

03:34:07 [markd2]

* markd2 is playing with Java2D right now

03:34:10 [Psychephylax]

for a cookie...

03:34:45 [Psychephylax]

According to my professor (at least that's what my friend is arguing) he's saying that a foreign key must reference a key or a candidate key

03:35:01 [markd2]

"candidate key"?

03:35:28 [markd2]

in Oracle, a foreign key refrences the primary key of the parent table

03:35:35 [Psychephylax]

ok

03:35:36 [markd2]

that's why the column name in 'references' clauses in oracle are optional

03:35:52 [Psychephylax]

ok, well, what about this scenario

03:35:53 [markd2]

e.g. create table lusers (luser_id refrences users, ...);

03:35:57 [Psychephylax]

you have a table

03:36:17 [Psychephylax]

which has a book isbn, copy, title, date, author

03:36:30 [Psychephylax]

Now, we're trying to normalize the table a little here (in case of multiple authors)

03:37:06 [Psychephylax]

in the book table isbn is not a primary key because we can have multiple copies of that book...so I use primary key of isbn, copy #

03:37:22 [Psychephylax]

With me so far?

03:37:31 [markd2]

the primary keyness goes the other direction

03:37:43 [Psychephylax]

hmm?

03:37:45 [markd2]

the author table is the one iwth the primary key (of author) that the books key references

03:37:57 [Psychephylax]

right

03:38:11 [Psychephylax]

I thought my solution is perfectly sound

03:38:11 [markd2]

so you don't need to worry about isbn, copy#, or any of that jazz for this scenario

03:38:21 [Psychephylax]

create table book (

03:38:25 [Psychephylax]

isbn varchar

03:38:34 [Psychephylax]

title varchar

03:38:38 [Psychephylax]

copyid number

03:38:40 [Psychephylax]

...

03:38:41 [Psychephylax]

)

03:38:49 [Psychephylax]

create table authors (

03:39:07 [markd2]

ah, and have a mapping table between them?

03:39:11 [Psychephylax]

isbn fk references book.isbn

03:39:20 [markd2]

no, don't do it that way

03:39:24 [Psychephylax]

author varchar

03:39:26 [Psychephylax]

)

03:39:27 [markd2]

that's backwards

03:39:33 [Psychephylax]

why?

03:39:40 [markd2]

what about authors that have written more than one book?

03:39:48 [markd2]

the Ideal Way is to have a third table

03:40:05 [markd2]

author_book_map (book_id references book, author_id references authors);

03:40:10 [markd2]

that way you can have multiple authors for each book

03:40:17 [markd2]

and multiple books for each author

03:40:17 [Psychephylax]

right

03:40:49 [markd2]

neither books nor authors should directly reference themselves, unless you want to enforce a 1:X relationship

03:40:59 [Psychephylax]

I see...

03:41:10 [Psychephylax]

ok, but this book_id will be what?

03:41:12 [markd2]

now, I must make a the disclaimer that I've never had a formal database class

03:41:17 [markd2]

just make it an integer

03:41:22 [markd2]

something that uniquely identifies the book

03:41:25 [Psychephylax]

what if we're not giving books a unique thing

03:41:30 [markd2]

or else use the ISBN number- those I beleive are unique

03:41:38 [markd2]

otherwise you'll need a composite primary key

03:41:39 [Psychephylax]

isbn, copy_id identifies a book uniquely

03:41:48 [Psychephylax]

but my argument is that we don't need that granularity

03:42:08 [markd2]

the isbn / copy_id granularity?

03:42:17 [Psychephylax]

just using an ISBN is sufficient because all the different copies were written by the same authors

03:42:31 [Psychephylax]

ISBN -> identifies a book edition uniquely

03:42:35 [markd2]

right

03:42:43 [Psychephylax]

isbn,copy# -> identifies a single book uniquely

03:42:56 [Psychephylax]

So I can reference just the ISBN to store the authors

03:43:15 [markd2]

is isbn/copy# the primary key for th books table?

03:43:17 [Psychephylax]

Correct?

03:43:20 [Psychephylax]

yes

03:43:58 [hazmat]

hazmat has joined #openacs

03:44:08 [markd2]

with the way you have the datamodel set up, just isbn won't uniquely determine a book, so the foreign key won't work to just the isbn#

03:44:18 [markd2]

because y ucould have two books with same isbn# and different titles

03:44:25 [markd2]

so if you join the author to get the books, which one will it use?

03:44:28 [Psychephylax]

no

03:44:31 [markd2]

yes

03:44:41 [Psychephylax]

how can you have same isbn with two different titles?!

03:44:52 [markd2]

with your datamodel, I could legally (accrding to the db) insert books with different titles and same isbn#

03:45:11 [markd2]

insert into books ('123-456', 'cookies'); insert into books ('123-456', 'feet');

03:45:16 [Psychephylax]

but

03:45:27 [markd2]

unless the isbn is the sole primary key

03:45:34 [markd2]

(i left out different copy #'s in my exmaple)

03:45:46 [Psychephylax]

aha

03:45:49 [markd2]

insert into books ('123-456', 'cookies', 23); insert into books ('123-456', 'feet', 24);

03:46:07 [markd2]

interesting problem

03:46:08 [Psychephylax]

i see indeed

03:46:10 [Psychephylax]

that is a problem

03:46:29 [markd2]

maybe have books be just the isbn and title. have a table that has references to isbn and copy#

03:46:37 [markd2]

and then a table of authors

03:47:39 [Psychephylax]

well, this is what the system has to ahve

03:48:03 [rbm]

* rbm heads out for a bit

03:49:07 [Psychephylax]

book title, book author, book date, book copy, book status, shelf id

03:49:18 [Psychephylax]

where status is like "on shelf", "on hold"...etc

03:49:25 [Psychephylax]

shelf-id is what shelf the book is stored on

03:50:35 [Psychephylax]

now, a book can have multiple authors and multiple copies

03:50:46 [Psychephylax]

so, I'm thinking I have 3 tables here

03:50:47 [markd2]

that implies mapping tables

03:51:00 [Psychephylax]

one is a book

03:51:16 [Psychephylax]

it's kind of like the ping stuff I have to do for work

03:51:24 [Psychephylax]

there's a cmts_ping and a cm_ping table

03:51:31 [Psychephylax]

which stores pings related to a single incident

03:52:23 [markd2]

will all the books be stored in the same place?

03:52:33 [Psychephylax]

on different shelves

03:52:38 [Psychephylax]

define your "same place"

03:52:51 [markd2]

you can stick the storage place in the books table

03:53:02 [markd2]

if not, that goes into a mapping table of its own

03:53:03 [Psychephylax]

well, I wouldn't

03:53:08 [rbm]

http://www.lindows.com/

03:53:15 [Psychephylax]

I could stick it into the copies table

03:53:21 [Psychephylax]

where each copy is stored

03:53:21 [markd2]

true

03:53:25 [markd2]

books, copies, authors ?

03:53:30 [Psychephylax]

right

03:53:46 [markd2]

then you can have books be just a PK on isbn#

03:53:49 [markd2]

that should work out

03:53:52 [Psychephylax]

yeah

03:53:57 [Psychephylax]

I'm typing it out in notepad now

03:53:59 [markd2]

you may need a fourth table to map authors and books

03:54:13 [Psychephylax]

lol

03:54:29 [Psychephylax]

I'm using {'s and }'s for my table defs

03:54:34 [markd2]

heh

03:54:35 [Psychephylax]

too much TCL for one day

03:54:36 [markd2]

here, have some []s

03:54:45 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax grabs them and builds a house

03:54:45 [markd2]

otherwise you'd have to have duplicate authors if you had distinct books by the same author

03:54:54 [Psychephylax]

hang on one sec

03:56:29 [Psychephylax]

I'm thinking something like this

03:56:32 [Psychephylax]

create table book (

03:56:32 [Psychephylax]

isbn

03:56:32 [Psychephylax]

title

03:56:32 [Psychephylax]

date

03:56:32 [Psychephylax]

)

03:56:32 [Psychephylax]

create table copy (

03:56:34 [Psychephylax]

isbn referenfces book.isbn

03:56:36 [Psychephylax]

status

03:56:38 [Psychephylax]

copy

03:56:40 [Psychephylax]

shelf_id

03:56:42 [Psychephylax]

)

03:56:44 [Psychephylax]

create table author (

03:56:46 [Psychephylax]

isbn references book.isnb

03:56:48 [Psychephylax]

author

03:56:50 [Psychephylax]

)

03:56:57 [markd2]

I have a quibble about the author table

03:57:03 [Psychephylax]

I would assume it would

03:57:08 [markd2]

what if you have two Issac Asimov Books

03:57:09 [Psychephylax]

have a problem

03:57:14 [markd2]

do you have two seperate author entries

03:57:21 [Psychephylax]

well, it would be

03:57:27 [Psychephylax]

111, asimov

03:57:31 [markd2]

that seems rather (heh) ab-normal

03:57:33 [Psychephylax]

345, asimov

03:57:43 [Psychephylax]

111,pavlov

03:57:45 [markd2]

what if you extend author to have birth/death/biographical information

03:57:58 [Psychephylax]

Well, this system doesn't have it! :P

03:58:17 [Psychephylax]

so why wouldn't ^^ work?

03:58:17 [markd2]

if that's the case, then this should be OK

03:58:30 [markd2]

in the real world (with more author info), you'd have

03:58:39 [Psychephylax]

you can see that book with isbn 111 was written by asimov and pavlov

03:58:42 [markd2]

111, asimov, isaac, 1895-1993

03:58:45 [markd2]

171, asimov, isaac, 1895-1993

03:59:03 [Psychephylax]

so you're saying it's redundant again

03:59:05 [markd2]

you now have asimov, isaac, and 1895-1993 duplicated

03:59:12 [Psychephylax]

And it would have to be normalized again

03:59:15 [markd2]

right

03:59:18 [Psychephylax]

fine

03:59:20 [Psychephylax]

have it your way!

03:59:25 [Psychephylax]

create table author_id (

03:59:27 [markd2]

but if you just have author last name and isbn, then your way would be OK :-)

03:59:38 [Psychephylax]

author_first varchar

03:59:41 [Psychephylax]

author_last varchar

03:59:55 [Psychephylax]

cookie_eater boolean (true!) lol

04:00:02 [markd2]

heh

04:00:05 [Psychephylax]

birth date

04:00:07 [Psychephylax]

death date

04:00:20 [Psychephylax]

hmmm...what would I key it on though

04:00:46 [Psychephylax]

See, your way is waaaay too complex =) although useful never the less

04:01:03 [vinod]

* vinod raises hand

04:01:07 [vinod]

mapping table

04:01:11 [Psychephylax]

how?

04:01:15 [markd2]

very good vinod

04:01:19 [vinod]

* vinod beams

04:01:21 [markd2]

what would you use for the PK of the author table?

04:01:26 [vinod]

author_id

04:01:31 [Psychephylax]

but you have to generate one

04:01:36 [markd2]

yeah, that's what I would use too

04:01:48 [Psychephylax]

me three but that would require a sequence

04:01:54 [markd2]

since there's no real other way to guarantee uniquness in the authors

04:01:58 [markd2]

which is pretty tough

04:02:03 [Psychephylax]

exactly that's what I mean

04:02:17 [markd2]

so you'd use a sequence for the ID number

04:02:23 [markd2]

and in the UI (presumiung a real-world system)

04:02:24 [Psychephylax]

aha!

04:02:25 [Psychephylax]

lol

04:02:38 [markd2]

if someone said "here's a new bok by John Smith", they'd have to pick which John Smith they're talking about

04:02:42 [Psychephylax]

Social security number but that wouldn't work for foreign authors

04:02:52 [markd2]

right. and I don't think Shakespeare has a SSN :-)

04:03:00 [Psychephylax]

that bastard! rofl

04:03:15 [Psychephylax]

So my way _should_ work unless they want to extend the authors info

04:03:20 [vinod]

right. monty burns was 000-00-0002

04:03:48 [vinod]

monty: damn that fdr!

04:03:55 [markd2]

right

04:04:01 [markd2]

you could put that in for extra-credit :-)

04:04:17 [markd2]

"this works for now, but if we want to include author full names, shoe sizes, etc, there is this complication, with this possible solution"

04:05:23 [Psychephylax]

heh

04:05:36 [Psychephylax]

I'll get extra credit for using triggers in my project

04:05:43 [Psychephylax]

And maybe some stored procedures

04:07:52 [vinod]

add some javascript, too

04:08:02 [markd2]

and Shlockwave!

04:08:04 [Psychephylax]

i was thinking of it

04:08:08 [markd2]

store them in BLOBs

04:08:12 [vinod]

lol

04:08:18 [Psychephylax]

but it's not a applet

04:08:21 [Psychephylax]

it's an application

04:08:28 [Psychephylax]

so there's no network traffic

04:08:36 [Psychephylax]

otherwise I would do constraint checks in jscript

04:08:55 [markd2]

be sure to do them on the server side as well

04:09:26 [vinod]

right, otherwise, i turn off jscript and ... poof!

04:09:28 [Psychephylax]

Anyone know if MySQL supports row locking yet?

04:09:38 [markd2]

anyone care?

04:09:40 [Psychephylax]

good point

04:10:06 [markd2]

heh

04:10:18 [markd2]

oh well, old man needs to get some sleep

04:10:24 [markd2]

catch folks tomorrow

04:10:48 [markd2]

markd2 has quit

04:10:49 [vinod]

gnite

04:11:19 [Psychephylax]

I think I am with mark on this one

04:11:23 [Psychephylax]

For me it's 12:10 already

04:11:33 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax tries to stick to the old schedule of daylight savings time

04:11:51 [vinod]

heh

04:12:03 [Psychephylax]

i've been waking up at 7:30!

04:12:04 [Psychephylax]

It's great

04:12:05 [Psychephylax]

lol

04:12:50 [vinod]

that's just sick ;-)

04:14:13 [Psychephylax]

Good sick or bad sick?

04:14:24 [Psychephylax]

<--barely wakes up at 10 or so

04:33:13 [Psychephylax]

anyway

04:33:14 [Psychephylax]

I'm off to bed

04:34:55 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax detaches

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06:31:57 [moby]

boo

06:32:04 [moby]

moby is now known as jerryasher

06:39:24 [rbm]

* rbm apt-get upgrades

06:39:25 [rbm]

Oh. Mozilla 0.9.5

06:39:48 [rbm]

Debian's packaging system is so cool.

06:40:02 [rbm]

I wouldn't trade it for almost nothing.

06:40:32 [jerryasher]

One day I shall have to try it.

06:41:35 [rbm]

Debian is awesome. So easy to manage and administer. The distribution doesn't get in your way, but still has lots of (optional) tools for those that don't want to do things by hand

06:42:05 [jerryasher]

Do you know where the name comes from?

06:42:26 [rbm]

For the releases? Yes.

06:43:04 [rbm]

Bruce Perens used to work for Pixar. Hence "woody", "potato" (from Toy Story)

06:43:05 [jerryasher]

No, the name debian itself.

06:43:10 [rbm]

Oh, that's easy too.

06:43:27 [jerryasher]

I must admit, I see that, and I always think of "the trouble with tribbles"

06:43:40 [rbm]

Ian Murdock basically started the project. His wife's name is Deborah. Deb+Ian

06:43:54 [jerryasher]

in which Kirk is compared to a denebian slime devil.

06:44:01 [rbm]

heh

06:45:13 [rbm]

www.lindows.com <-- should be interesting to see how that rolls out

06:45:31 [rbm]

It would really kick butt if it worked for the majority of applications

06:45:42 [jerryasher]

Well, frankly, I never liked Earthers. They remind me of Regulan blood worms.

06:45:43 [jerryasher]

Sir.

06:45:43 [jerryasher]

Easy lad, you ought to be more forgiving.

06:45:43 [jerryasher]

No, I just remembered, there is one Earth man who doesn’t remind me of a Regulan Blood worm. That’s Kirk. A Regulan Blood worm is soft and shapely, but Kirk isn’t soft. Kirk may be a swaggering overbearing tin-plated dictator with delusions of godhood, but he’s not soft.

06:45:43 [jerryasher]

Take it easy lad, everybody's entitled to an opinion.

06:45:45 [jerryasher]

That’s right and if I think that Kirk is a Denebian slime devil, well, that’s my opinion too.

06:46:27 [rbm]

???

06:46:41 [jerryasher]

How does it run Windows? Wine?

06:46:45 [rbm]

yep

06:47:00 [rbm]

It's all through wine. They are improving wine and making some proprietary additions to it.

06:47:18 [jerryasher]

??? How do you make proprietary additions to Wine?

06:47:30 [rbm]

I think it's BSD? I don't remember.

06:48:10 [jerryasher]

Don’t do it Mister, now that’s an order.

06:48:10 [jerryasher]

But you heard what he called the Captain.

06:48:10 [jerryasher]

Forget it. It’s not worth fighting for. We’re big enough to take a few insults. Now drink, you’ll drink.

06:48:10 [jerryasher]

Of course, I say that Captain Kirk, deserves his ship. We like the Enterprise, we, we really do. That sagging, old rust bucket is designed like a garbage scow. Half the quadrant knows it, that’s why they’re learning to speak Klingony.

06:48:10 [jerryasher]

Mister Scott!

06:48:12 [jerryasher]

Laddy, don't you think you should rephrase that?

06:48:14 [jerryasher]

You’re right. I should. I didn’t mean to say that the Enterprise should be hauling garbage. I meant to say that it should be hauled away as garbage

06:50:24 [jerryasher]

That Michael Pataki was one of the best Klingons ever, cranial ridges or not.

06:50:41 [rbm]

Hmmm. X 4.1

06:51:17 [rbm]

* rbm is upgrading 190 packages

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13:51:42 [Psychephylax]

heh

13:52:11 [markd2]

'morning

13:52:12 [Psychephylax]

i didn't change some of my clocks to fall time so i get confused in the morning thinking it's 11

13:52:14 [Psychephylax]

or 10

13:52:28 [Psychephylax]

Then I waste an hour figuring out what the hell happened and then it's really 11 lol

13:53:37 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax gets out his big big spoon to eat his Bart Simpson cereal

13:53:46 [Psychephylax]

9:09AM up 100 days, 6 mins, 1 user, load averages: 1.04, 1.03, 1.00

13:53:50 [Psychephylax]

wooohooo!

14:00:56 [markd2]

huzzah!

14:01:17 [Psychephylax]

hmm?

14:01:51 [markd2]

huzzah - a renfest term of celebration

14:01:57 [markd2]

in honor of your machine's uptime

14:02:03 [Psychephylax]

ah

14:02:08 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax gives Mark a cookie with Milk

14:02:12 [markd2]

thanks!

14:02:15 [markd2]

mmm.. breakfast...

14:02:15 [Psychephylax]

:)

14:02:19 [Psychephylax]

lol

14:02:26 [Psychephylax]

Want some cereal

14:02:28 [Psychephylax]

?

14:02:45 [markd2]

no thanks

14:02:48 [markd2]

cookies are fine

14:02:53 [Psychephylax]

okie, coffee?

14:02:56 [markd2]

ok

14:03:11 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax goes to the local Starbucks

14:03:31 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax returns with a pot of coffee he stole from Starbucks

14:03:53 [markd2]

what? didn't bring back the mungus espresso maker?

14:04:02 [Psychephylax]

nah, a little too heavy

14:04:06 [Psychephylax]

They were chasing me too

14:04:09 [markd2]

ah

14:04:11 [Psychephylax]

With pastries of all sorts

14:04:15 [markd2]

have to be quick on your feets

14:04:22 [Psychephylax]

i know

14:05:29 [Psychephylax]

i need more bart simpson cereal

14:05:48 [Psychephylax]

So much milk, so little cereal

14:05:54 [markd2]

Mister Smithers brand bran flakes

14:06:32 [Psychephylax]

No

14:06:38 [Psychephylax]

Kelloggs didn't make that one

14:06:48 [markd2]

* markd2 kicks Kelloggs

14:06:56 [Psychephylax]

They only made "Bart Simpson Cereal" and "Homer's Cinnamon Donuts"

14:07:09 [markd2]

what is bart simpson cereal?

14:07:29 [Psychephylax]

Peanut Buttery gooddness with Chocolate flavorings

14:09:48 [Psychephylax]

i so don't want to go to school today

14:10:05 [markd2]

me neither

14:10:09 [markd2]

luckily I don't have to

14:10:09 [Psychephylax]

heh

14:10:15 [markd2]

I don't want to work today.

14:10:26 [Psychephylax]

i wanna stay home and play with databases

14:10:55 [Psychephylax]

I can't get JBuilder's JDBC driver to work to connect to Sybase though

14:13:19 [markd2]

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14:14:25 [Psychephylax]

wb

14:14:29 [markd2]

wheee. brief power outage

14:15:25 [Psychephylax]

No UPS?!

14:15:48 [Psychephylax]

that is so....wrong

14:16:59 [Psychephylax]

i have to return this cell phone headset

14:17:06 [markd2]

I keep most stuff shutdown unless I need it

14:17:33 [Psychephylax]

I thought over the ear will be better since it will have more "holdage" but it's a major pain in the arse to put it on

14:17:34 [Psychephylax]

I'

14:17:54 [Psychephylax]

I'd rather get a speaker phone that plugs into the bottom of the phone for more money

14:18:14 [shagster]

pain in the arse? Then I don't think you are putting it in the right spot :)

14:18:24 [Psychephylax]

rofl

14:18:41 [shagster]

Just athought :)

14:18:55 [graszew]

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14:19:01 [Psychephylax]

ok, should i say "pain in the ear" then lol

14:19:18 [shagster]

Ohhh...

14:20:08 [Psychephylax]

lol

14:21:31 [Psychephylax]

Anyone know when OACS is going beta?

14:22:33 [Psychephylax]

heh

14:22:45 [Psychephylax]

I just found one week old buffalo wings in my room....eeeeewwwwwwwwwww

14:23:39 [markd2]

they're prbably still good

14:24:38 [Psychephylax]

ummmm

14:24:50 [Psychephylax]

I dunno man, they turned from reddish to greenish

14:24:52 [Psychephylax]

all over

14:33:33 [Psychephylax]

school

14:33:36 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax leaves

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15:55:29 [davb]

phew, made it.

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16:09:57 [Psychephylax]

bah humbug

16:25:31 [djg]

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16:36:02 [ola]

dave: looks like you've been working on your index page this morning... am I right?

16:37:30 [davb]

I have? No my server is all screwed up and I am not too inclined to fix it :)

16:37:57 [davb]

I think it needs a new NIC (i hope anyway, that is easy to fix)

16:42:07 [ola]

weird. I could've sworn I witnessed you working on it a couple of hours ago.

16:42:31 [ola]

it loaded really slow, so that may be it.

16:42:51 [markd2]

I was watching my secret spy cam, and he wasn't working on it

16:44:27 [ola]

heh. ok.

16:45:39 [davb]

ola: you missed the great network troublshooting extravaganza :) Also I think I screwed up the virtual hosting.

16:46:08 [davb]

I just have to say this:

16:46:08 [davb]

Have you (or any of the TNG cast) ever rubbed it for good luck?

16:46:08 [davb]

Are you kidding me? We'd gather every Monday morning in the center of the bridge, cry havoc, and let slip the rubbing of Patrick's head. We always wanted to rub Shatner's bald head for luck, but he'd never take off his toupee. So we'd just rub his belly instead.

16:46:19 [davb]

from: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/29/173252&mode=nocomment

16:47:04 [markd2]

that's an awesme interview

16:47:48 [davb]

yes it is.

16:53:43 [davb]

Ok, whats the partitioning option for oracle and do I need it for OpenACS?

16:53:54 [markd2]

don't need it

16:54:05 [markd2]

partitioning lets you break your tables and indexes up into pieces

16:54:09 [davb]

OK. Cool. I think its installed anyway though, so I'll leave it for now. :)

16:54:17 [markd2]

allows for parallelism in accessing the data

16:54:25 [davb]

Nifty.

16:54:27 [markd2]

and you can easily do 'sliding windows' on your data

16:54:41 [markd2]

like keep the last 12 months of data in your user activity table

16:54:48 [davb]

That is nifty.

16:54:55 [markd2]

dropping the oldest month becomes one operation rather than a big delete

16:55:32 [davb]

Thanks!

16:56:51 [ola]

Dave, do you still have a problem with daemontools and the environment?

16:56:59 [ola]

...or is markd2 clairvoyant and can answer that? :-)

16:57:28 [markd2]

Reply hazy. Try again later

16:57:38 [davb]

Ola: yes, but I skirted around it by running aolserver manually on port 8000

16:57:52 [markd2]

and now he's wearing a skirt

16:58:09 [davb]

it seemed to help.

16:58:38 [ola]

davb: aha. maybe you should try shagsters little trick:

16:58:50 [ola]

http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002qM&topic_id=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design&topic=12

16:59:15 [ola]

I found it quite useful!

17:00:11 [davb]

thanks! that is what I needed.

17:00:30 [ola]

cool!

17:01:43 [markd2]

ah, so that's who shagster is

17:02:06 [ola]

heh. you didn't know?

17:02:18 [davb]

* davb installs the debian package for graphviz to test acs-workflow 4.3

17:03:12 [davb]

I love the new [set parameters] That is a million times better than fooling around with a tcl file to specify paths to stuff and change settings.

17:03:53 [markd2]

ooh - a suse wonk

17:03:56 [markd2]

not enough of us in the world

17:04:18 [davb]

uhoh, bug.

17:06:48 [markd2]

I prefer to think of those as Additional Billable Hours

17:07:40 [davb]

heh...too bad I am not charging for this.

17:13:04 [ola]

write down the hours and charge future clients retrospectively.

17:17:08 [davb]

heh.

17:20:46 [ola]

* ola hates his firewall

17:21:02 [ola]

it's one big hindrance for me:-(

17:21:30 [davb]

Is it yours? or someone elses?

17:21:54 [ola]

mine.

17:23:33 [davb]

Oh.

17:24:06 [davb]

hmmmm. mine never bothers me. I put my webservers outside the firewall though and just use IPCHAINS on the server itself.

17:24:10 [ola]

I bet it's the firewalls fault tinydns doesen't work.

17:26:37 [davb]

interesting. Is it a special firewall? I use a linux box. Also I run tinydns and qmail on the firewall box.

17:27:16 [davb]

you need to allow UDP port 53 through for DNS. Thats about all I know.

17:30:29 [k2pts]

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17:32:13 [davb]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005O3VC/havebrowsewil-20/107-1093050-9466116

17:32:17 [davb]

Coool!

17:32:35 [ola]

it's a linux box of it's own running IP masquerading and ipchains. all my servers; qmail/tinydns/aolserver are behind it. I did a "port forward" to the local dns box and allowed UDP and TCP on that IP, but it still doesn't work.

17:32:44 [ola]

tinydns: fatal: unable to bind UDP socket: address not available

17:33:02 [ola]

hi k2pts.

17:33:06 [k2pts]

hi ola

17:33:34 [davb]

interesting. Not sure how it works. tinydns is not binding on the server its on. Are you sure BIND isn't running in there somewhere?

17:33:40 [graszew]

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17:34:13 [ola]

q

17:34:23 [ola]

errr

17:34:46 [davb]

or something else... what command is that netstat or something?

17:34:50 [ola]

[root@hal main]# netstat -a | grep domain

17:34:51 [ola]

tcp 0 0 hal:domain *:* LISTEN udp 0 0 hal:domain *:*

17:35:30 [davb]

davb has changed the topic to: Unqualified personal giving network administration advice

17:35:31 [ola]

hmm. I don't have bind installed.

17:35:49 [davb]

* davb has no clue.

17:36:01 [davb]

I am just lucky, mine works, I have no idea how :)

17:36:42 [ola]

davb: that topic is not descriptive. you're being a great help;-)

17:37:03 [davb]

heh

17:37:19 [davb]

davb has changed the topic to: Free Web Toolkit | http://openacs.org

17:38:37 [ola]

hi graszew.

17:38:37 [davb]

ola have you used static-pages anymore? Think its ready to go in the alpha-2 release?

17:39:00 [davb]

Luckily the oracle version did not break!

17:39:44 [davb]

Top selling music DVDs at columbiahouse: 06 The Cars: Live

17:39:44 [davb]

Starring: Ric Ocasek, Elliot Easton

17:39:47 [davb]

??

17:41:58 [ola]

davb: yes I think it's pretty good! have you fixed summarized/non-summarized display of comments? that would be nice to have working - as of now comments are always shown as list items.

17:42:32 [davb]

Oh, hmmm I'll check it out. That is weird.

17:43:20 [ola]

The Cars have only done one good song. Drive. that was like twenty years ago...

17:44:15 [davb]

ola: BTW, I emailed don that static-pages was a-ok right before you said that :)

17:45:34 [ola]

ok. so it acts the same for you?

17:45:59 [davb]

not sure, I am reinstalling from CVS to make sure...

17:48:22 [ola]

I *think* I prefer the full comments as it is in 3.x as opposed to summarized with links...

17:49:27 [davb]

ouch oracle is taking forever to shutdown.

17:49:58 [ola]

ouch!

17:50:12 [markd2]

are there any connected clients?

17:50:20 [markd2]

if you just 'shutdown', it'll hang around until the clients disconnect

17:50:23 [davb]

Apparently there were :)

17:50:32 [davb]

I did killall nsd and it shutdown right away.

17:51:30 [markd2]

cool

17:51:47 [markd2]

shutdown transactional will wait until transactions finish, and then shut down

17:53:30 [davb]

handy information.

17:55:16 [ola]

davb: does search in static-pages work satisfactory to you?

17:55:30 [ola]

* ola is too lazy to install search again

17:55:33 [davb]

Yeah. It was working very well.

17:55:39 [ola]

cooool

17:55:54 [davb]

Did you not see the example I had running?

17:56:11 [davb]

I can fire it up later, I think it's still installed.

17:56:12 [ola]

yes I did

17:56:37 [davb]

You have to do scan the filesystem to make it reindex.

17:56:55 [ola]

aha

17:57:32 [davb]

I figure its the easiest way. Probably should have a scheduled proc that runs every whatever to rescan automagically.

17:57:35 [AaronSw]

AaronSw is now known as SeanP2

17:57:54 [SeanP2]

SeanP2 is now known as AaronSw

17:58:06 [davb]

time for lunch...

17:58:13 [ola]

ok.

17:58:18 [k2pts]

davb: enjoy

17:59:26 [markd2]

SeanP2?

18:09:20 [k2pts]

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18:38:02 [talli]

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18:38:08 [talli]

hey guys

18:38:16 [markd2]

hey Talli

18:39:08 [davb]

hi talli

18:39:16 [davb]

ola: i suspect general comments.

18:39:26 [davb]

I am passing show_content_p=1 to it.

18:41:24 [davb]

I think the oracle version works though.

18:42:31 [ola]

ok. well, I'm sure Pascal or Don is working on it...

18:43:17 [ola]

a question for dave: why does static-pages say "updated" for files I haven't updated upon a "filesystem search"? the dirs show "unchanged"...

18:43:47 [davb]

It's a "design feature" of switching to file-system based files.

18:44:05 [davb]

There is no copy in the database to compare to, so it thinks they are new every time.

18:44:39 [ola]

aha. thanks

18:44:39 [davb]

We probably should do an ns_sha on the file or something to see if its changed and stuff that in the database.

18:45:01 [davb]

It causes every file to be reindexed by search which might be a problem on a site with many static-pages.

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18:59:36 [davb]

hi jerryasher

18:59:45 [jerryasher]

howdy!

19:01:10 [ola]

hi jerry

19:01:23 [k2pts]

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19:09:52 [davb]

ola: my list is getting evaluated incorrectly...

19:10:12 [davb]

causing it to pass bogus into to general_comments_get_comments

19:11:12 [ola]

so you may be able to fix it?

19:11:53 [davb]

i think so....

19:11:57 [ola]

need help?

19:12:45 [davb]

hmmm.

19:13:04 [davb]

ok, it works if I hard code in a 1 for show_content_p.

19:14:17 [ola]

yabba dabba doo!

19:14:23 [davb]

aha

19:18:56 [davb]

ok it works.

19:20:39 [davb]

and committed

19:23:27 [davb]

markd2: does oracle suppport CASE WHEN?

19:23:39 [k2pts]

davb: use decode

19:24:35 [davb]

right. I stuck a CASE in the oracle XQL file and it didn't give me an error. I was curious to how I managed that :)

19:24:47 [markd2]

davb - yes

19:24:49 [markd2]

(I think)

19:25:43 [davb]

OK. cool.

19:26:03 [davb]

Another Oracle, we will work with the standard AND make up our own version just for fun.

19:26:14 [markd2]

heh

19:26:24 [markd2]

well, the 'decode' came before case when, so I can forgive them for that one

19:26:33 [davb]

Ok. this time.

19:26:49 [k2pts]

markd2: thanks, didn't know that. decode is used all over in the oracle version.

19:26:55 [davb]

But that stuff can probably go in a generic XQL file then if it works in both.

19:26:57 [k2pts]

s/over/over the place

19:29:02 [markd2]

I think most of aD was ignorant of case when

19:29:16 [k2pts]

ok, that explains it

19:35:27 [andrew]

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19:37:45 [davb]

anyone know how util_memoize works?

19:38:19 [davb]

never mind

19:38:40 [markd2]

gee, that was easy :-)

19:40:39 [davb]

heh

19:41:31 [davb]

I called util_memoize_flush [list [sp_get_page_info $page_id]] instead of util_memoize_flush [list sp_get_page_info $page_id]

19:43:55 [ola]

huzzah! it works (I learned a new word from Mark)

19:44:04 [markd2]

woo hoo!

19:44:40 [markd2]

proper pronounciation in "hooZahh", emphasis on the second syllable

19:46:37 [ola]

heh. that's similar to the swedish words for "what did you say?".

19:46:53 [markd2]

that's awesome

19:47:04 [markd2]

"huzzah!" "what did you say?"

19:47:13 [ola]

hehe

19:47:51 [davb]

ola: cool. thanks for testing. I am really bad because if flames don't shoot out of the box, I figure it is working OK.

19:48:03 [davb]

otherwise known as the MS testing process.

19:48:08 [k2pts]

huzzah

19:48:21 [markd2]

markd2 has changed the topic to: Free Web Toolkit | http://openacs.org | Huzzah!!

19:49:00 [ola]

davb: sure, I think it's fun stuff to do...

19:49:13 [docwolf]

hi everybody!

19:49:19 [markd2]

hey doc

19:49:58 [davb]

ola: yeah I don't mind testing someone elses code :)

19:50:00 [k2pts]

hi docwolf

19:50:02 [davb]

hi doc!

19:50:05 [ola]

markd2: "huzzah!" == "hur sa?" == "what did you say?"

19:53:40 [k2pts]

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19:59:10 [ola]

davb: can I make a feature request for static-pages?

19:59:26 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw disconnects

20:01:36 [davb]

ola: sure!

20:01:56 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw reconnects

20:02:52 [ola]

wouldn't it be cool to have links; "children displayed/summarized" just like "children commentable/not commentable"?

20:03:06 [davb]

heh.

20:03:13 [davb]

That should not be too tricky.

20:03:43 [davb]

ola: do you need that level of granularity? Or will you get set all pages the same?

20:04:44 [ola]

probably the same. should it be parameterized?

20:05:48 [davb]

Another good question.

20:06:07 [davb]

I think its not too tricky to put a couple more buttons at the bottom.

20:07:57 [davb]

so ola, when will you have those new features implemented?? :)

20:09:21 [ola]

heh. it was a request. I'm not stepping up;-)

20:10:29 [davb]

:)

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20:15:02 [talli]

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20:21:03 [ola]

holy shit!

20:21:10 [markd2]

?

20:21:17 [ola]

Ron Sexsmith plays here tomorrow and I can't go:-(

20:21:20 [markd2]

* markd2 didn't remember teaching ola that

20:21:41 [ola]

un-huzzah!

20:21:51 [markd2]

LOL

20:21:57 [markd2]

who's Ron Sexsmith?

20:22:55 [ola]

a great singer/songwriter much like Elvis Costello or Bob Dylan..

20:23:24 [ola]

from canada.

20:24:22 [markd2]

cool, eh

20:25:05 [davb]

:)

20:25:14 [davb]

Check it out: http://www.vebjorn-sand.com/thebridge.htm

20:25:32 [davb]

A bridge is being built in norway based on a design by Leonardo Da Vinci

20:26:32 [davb]

more: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20011031/wl/1004543048norway_leonardos_bridge_osl108.html

20:38:13 [davb]

more on winXP: http://www.eastsidejournal.com/sited/story/html/71914

20:56:43 [Psychephylax]

mark, you around?

20:57:14 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax waves a cookie around

20:59:01 [markd2]

* markd2 sniffs the air

20:59:48 [Psychephylax]

Hey

21:00:07 [Psychephylax]

Remember out talk last night?

21:00:12 [markd2]

yep

21:00:14 [Psychephylax]

Guess what the professor decided to do =)

21:00:29 [Psychephylax]

He adds "Date of birth" attribute to Authors

21:00:31 [markd2]

everything in one table?

21:00:37 [Psychephylax]

But

21:00:45 [Psychephylax]

He said Author names are unique

21:00:55 [markd2]

not in the real world...

21:01:06 [markd2]

but this is college, after all :-)

21:01:51 [davb]

ow my brain...

21:02:35 [Psychephylax]

yeah lol

21:03:43 [davb]

Sounds like he trained the guys who work here...

21:03:59 [davb]

We don't want to query any other tables, so we'll put everything in this table..

21:05:04 [davb]

They are stuck in the 80s. We use enable which is a Dbase-like product. Its great except it has no integrity contraints.

21:05:24 [davb]

paraphrasing here "why do we need consisten data? Whats wrong with duplication?"

21:05:31 [davb]

* davb stop.

21:05:34 [davb]

* davb stops.

21:05:37 [davb]

sorry

21:06:45 [jerryasher]

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21:10:24 [markd2]

ranting is god for the soul

21:13:07 [davb]

heh

21:13:25 [AaronSw]

But if you duplicate data, then it'll be faster, right?

21:13:27 [AaronSw]

:-)

21:13:36 [markd2]

* markd2 thinks of it as redundant backups

21:13:43 [davb]

Oh yes, of course

21:13:43 [AaronSw]

Yeah, that's it.

21:13:58 [davb]

Right, because you don;t have to do a join to another table.

21:14:18 [davb]

:-/

21:14:58 [markd2]

instead you have to shlep around all that data on each query

21:15:03 [davb]

The scary part is I am the most knowlegable one! I know nothing.

21:15:04 [davb]

heh

21:15:45 [davb]

Well he told me he doesn;t want to have to do a query from more than one table for reports.

21:17:04 [davb]

the best part, is in the current system we have lookup tables, and then they store all the data from the lookup in the other tables.

21:24:43 [davb]

ok, time to go now, talk amongst yourselves...

21:24:47 [davb]

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21:40:30 [ola]

* ola gets verklempt

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23:20:48 [adler]

hi folks

23:21:49 [docwolf]

hola

23:23:18 [adler]

hey - I had a question about audit tables

23:24:26 [docwolf]

you got the wrong guy :-(

23:24:35 [docwolf]

maybe donb will login soon

23:25:13 [adler]

would it be desirable to hide the detail behide procedural abstration? it kinda mucks up the sql files and, from what i read, they are only working inconsistently

23:25:30 [adler]

maybe someone will jump in anyway :)

23:29:41 [adler]

i miss the # blog

23:30:14 [adler]

this was the first place I saw such a thing -- I thought it was pretty cool.

23:44:46 [davb]

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23:50:19 [docwolf]

hi davb

23:51:41 [davb]

hi

23:52:36 [adler]

evening, davb

23:53:09 [davb]

adler: hello. sorry the chump is temporarily unavailable.

23:54:06 [adler]

i'll forgive him

23:54:29 [davb]

:)

23:55:08 [adler]

i need a decent case for a new linux box, any recommendations?

23:55:29 [davb]

I like the enlight cases.

23:57:08 [adler]

are they noisy with the stock fans/powersupplies?

23:57:12 [graszew]

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23:57:56 [davb]

* davb listens...

23:58:27 [adler]

brb

23:58:30 [davb]

not too noisy with the one I have.