IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:27:23 [rbm]: rbm has quit
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01:31:57 [Psychephylax]: well that wasn't very rewarding
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02:28:02 [donb]: rant rave rant rave rant rave ....
02:28:39 [donb]: Anyone around? Everyone napping?
02:28:49 [docwolf]: hi don!
02:28:53 [docwolf]: keep on ranting :-)
02:29:14 [donb]: Hey, Adam ... boy you used to work for a company that delivered some really *shitty* code.
02:29:20 [docwolf]: haha
02:29:32 [docwolf]: which module are you looking at this time?
02:29:59 [docwolf]: i think ben should set up a poll: which module is the biggest train wreck?
02:30:14 [davb_]: * davb_ is back
02:30:23 [donb]: It's a good thing Helen graduated from Tufts and moved back here. If I were visiting her in Boston I'd probably go buy and Uzi and vent my feelings on what's left of the company.
02:30:45 [docwolf]: haha
02:31:03 [docwolf]: it's amazing that for all the arrogance and bluster, the actual code that was generated was so awful.
02:31:41 [donb]: If I upload an image, say "/home/donb/alex.jpg", into wimpy point no one else can load a file whose path ends in "alex.jpg" into wimpy point. That's the path on one's *local* computer, and *every* user! Grrr ...
02:32:15 [donb]: (I mean "is true for every user" - i.e. the filename on your computer has to be unique among ALL SITE USER'S UPLOADED FILES!)
02:32:28 [donb]: Is that a crock of shit or what?
02:32:39 [Psychephylax]: hey don
02:32:50 [Psychephylax]: hi docwolf and dave :)
02:32:51 [donb]: Hey there ...
02:33:02 [davb_]: oh my, that is insane.
02:33:22 [donb]: Continuing my rant and rave ... the problem is somewhat systematic system-wide because it's due to a unique contraint on the "name" field of content_items.
02:33:35 [Psychephylax]: * Psychephylax growls at the moon and begins his transformation into a....
02:33:37 [Psychephylax]: Psychephylax is now known as Spork
02:34:12 [donb]: Fortunately some (not all and not only the wp idiot) were smart enough to use object ids and leave the name NULL or work around it some other way, I need to start digging into this. Yes, it's insane and unacceptable.
02:34:38 [Spork]: sounds like a major problem and i've only been here a few minutes =)
02:34:53 [donb]: It *is* a major problem and it will be a tedious PITA to fix.
02:35:04 [Spork]: mmmm...pita bread
02:35:13 [Spork]: * Spork closes his eyes and thinks of a falofel
02:35:16 [donb]: Of course in the limited case of wimpy-point it doesn't really matter because you can't display the images you upload anyway, again due to aD problems.
02:35:38 [Spork]: at least I can solve my problems =)
02:35:45 [Spork]: well...no...I can't lol
02:35:49 [Spork]: I bug dave and mark
02:36:08 [Spork]: So the problem is that someone made filename a unique key or something?
02:36:40 [donb]: Someone made the "name" of a content_item a unique key and wimpy point uses the filename portion of the path of the file on your local machine the item's name ...
02:37:31 [donb]: I think the CMS must use the name as its key into items and manage namespace differently (i.e. by tacking on folder names). But the CR is supposed to be much, much more general than that and we have these nice little integers called "object_id" to find objects with.
02:37:35 [Spork]: can't you (meaning someone) just add an indexing column and create a sequence and create a new table mapping user_id to picture_id
02:38:26 [donb]: The *bleeping* code doesn't *need* the filename to start with! It could just as easily use the object_id just like any -1 modded Slashdot anonymous coward could've told the author.
02:38:51 [Spork]: lol
02:39:14 [Spork]: Don, I think you need one of these things I've been giving Mark all along
02:39:27 [Spork]: * Spork takes out a freshly made chocolate chip cookie and hands it to Don
02:39:41 [Spork]: Would you like some milk?
02:39:46 [graszew]: graszew has quit
02:39:54 [donb]: And it will do that before much longer. I've already e-mailed JackP, the guy who ported it, to see if he has time to work on it. He's not a very experienced programmer but a little supervision and he can fix it (if he has time).
02:40:01 [donb]: I want some beer, probably ...
02:40:28 [donb]: Hey, Karl Goldstein lives in Berkeley, I could be down there by daylight and give him hell in person.
02:41:10 [Spork]: * Spork gives Don a bottle of Goldshlager
02:41:13 [donb]: (he didn't write wimpy point but he's responsible for a bunch of other crap, like the templating API that uses its own argument parser instead of the very nice ad_proc and doesn't check for parameters that aren't wanted).
02:41:30 [Spork]: heh
02:41:47 [donb]: Did you know you can do "template::element -this_is_garbage $garbage" without getting an error from element complaining that it doesn't want that parameter?
02:42:10 [donb]: One little slip of a finger while touch-typing and you've entered bug city ...
02:42:48 [donb]: The unbelievable thing is that ad_proc's so nice and was available to his crew ... grrr ... grrr ... grrr ....
02:42:52 [Spork]: no I did not...but I am also not a very competent OACS programmer
02:43:13 [Spork]: Infact....I think I suck at programming period.
02:43:21 [donb]: aD has a job for you!
02:43:23 [Spork]: Maybe I chose the wrong profession -=)
02:43:39 [Spork]: no, cablevision has a job for me! But I don't know for how much longer! lol
02:44:05 [donb]: Actually plenty of aD folks are good programmers and plenty of them weren't very happy at a lot of what was going into ACS 4 ...
02:44:27 [donb]: actually I guess that's "ex-aD folks were" ...
02:44:38 [Spork]: I don't know....The biggest problem I have with aD and ACS is the documentation does not "flow"
02:44:47 [Spork]: I still don't fully grasp how the stuff works
02:45:16 [Spork]: Because I was forced to read sections of the documentation written by the people who did the stuff and assumed I know what they did
02:45:45 [Spork]: Don, you ever pick up a book in a subject you were clueless about and try reading the book?
02:45:56 [donb]: It could use a good primer, that's for sure. One thing that makes it hard is that there are multiple paradigms mixed up (like the template proc arg handler vs. ad_proc). ACS 4 was supposed to fix this by providing a more rational framework engineered free of the pressure of client customization work.
02:46:11 [donb]: Yeah ... programming :)
02:46:14 [Spork]: hah
02:46:15 [Spork]: me too!
02:46:47 [Spork]: I kinda want to get laid off right now...so after I graduate I can spend 6 months slacking off learning stuff I think would be of use to me
02:47:10 [Spork]: I figured, hey....I got 2 BS degrees in 3.5 years...I think my .5 of a year is well deserved =)
02:47:44 [donb]: A half year off is always deserved, which is why I've not worked more than half-time since 1986.
02:48:03 [Spork]: heh
02:48:06 [Spork]: I need a job like that
02:48:43 [Spork]: my job is alright....The hours are good and the pay (at least for me) is decent
02:48:49 [donb]: So, Adam, you're awfully quiet!
02:48:50 [davb_]: yeah! static-pages uses the filesystem relative path for name.
02:48:57 [Spork]: hey dave
02:49:09 [Spork]: * Spork jabs a Psychephylax at Dave
02:50:02 [donb]: Hmmm...at least that will be unique within the server ...
02:50:40 [Spork]: heh
02:50:46 [donb]: They were smart enough to leave the extension on, I assume!
02:50:52 [Spork]: * Spork feels proud of himself...At least I understand this DB talk =)
02:51:26 [Spork]: I impressed my professor today...I wanted to use triggers and stored procedures to do half of my project for databases
02:51:41 [Spork]: He's like..."If you want to excersize that"
02:51:48 [Spork]: * Spork heads over to the Sybase site
02:52:12 [donb]: Triggers, RI constraints (and "on delete/on update"), stored procedures are all really great things to be using to keep things consistent and in order.
02:52:30 [donb]: PG has better "on delete/on update" support that Oracle (8.1 at least, haven't checked 9i).
02:52:39 [donb]: Damn "than Oracle"
02:52:53 [Spork]: lol
02:52:59 [Spork]: Well, we use Sybase at school
02:53:14 [donb]: Oh, that's cool. A lot of people really like Sybase.
02:53:36 [Spork]: I don't know...I use Oracle syntax on tests =)
02:53:42 [Spork]: He still marks them right...hehe
02:54:12 [donb]: If you use "varchar2" you should be flunked :)
02:54:22 [Spork]: Why?!
02:54:24 [Spork]: :P
02:54:30 [docwolf]: back. sorry for my silence. nice flame ;-)
02:54:44 [docwolf]: don: as you're well aware, the berkeley folks were essentially a separate company.
02:55:26 [donb]: Because "varchar" is standard SQL92 and supported by everyone and most RDBMS's don't have user defined types. So you need to edit any Oracle datamodel using "varchar2" to port it when (thus far) "varchar" works just fine in Oracle ("but it may not someday", they keep saying).
02:55:44 [Spork]: heh
02:56:31 [docwolf]: i'd actually love to know what karlg, etc. are working on now
02:56:31 [donb]: Adam, yes I do know that. And Karl had to do *everything* differently than was done in the ACS. Sometimes his efforts were real improvements, sometimes they were really bad, but always different. The notion of code-sharing with the rest of the company just wasn't something he cared about.
02:56:55 [docwolf]: don: right. there was very little cross-talk between cambridge & berkeley.
02:57:03 [donb]: Finishing up ACS Java, which means commerce, KM, and uh I forget but it's not collaboration.
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02:57:32 [docwolf]: I am less convinced than ever about the appropriateness of java for the class of problems they are trying to solve.
02:57:35 [donb]: That's unforgivable. Not only on management's part, Karl's a good engineer and should know better without being told.
02:57:36 [Spork]: Hey it's Oracle Genius mark
02:57:49 [donb]: Hey Mark I'm ranting and raving.
02:58:00 [Spork]: Yeah
02:58:07 [docwolf]: (over the last couple of days i've had a run-in with a few weblogic sites that defy the imagination)
02:58:16 [Spork]: Don went on this cool rampage dissing people hehe
02:58:19 [donb]: Oh, yeah, like what?
02:58:25 [docwolf]: http://www.wml.com
02:58:33 [docwolf]: this is a site for doctors to do their continuing education online
02:58:34 [donb]: Not dissing people - dissing their code. There's a big difference ...
02:58:42 [Spork]: hehe
02:58:44 [Spork]: Close enough
02:58:46 [docwolf]: it essentially consists of a "users" module, and a way to stream real video
02:58:54 [docwolf]: it's a no-brainer of a site.
02:58:55 [Spork]: Web logic is wayyyyyy too expensive with their licensing
02:59:05 [docwolf]: but... implemented in java using weblogic & oracle.
02:59:12 [markd2]: hiya
02:59:18 [docwolf]: even the registration crashes. This is a multi-million dollar site.
02:59:35 [docwolf]: I sent them an enormous "you suck" letter for wasting my time.
02:59:44 [donb]: I just went there, Adam. It *talked* to me. I don't like websites that speak before they're spoken too.
02:59:53 [Spork]: one of our projects was using weblogic but switched to persistence
03:00:14 [docwolf]: haha. Yeah, they hit you with the annoying real video on the front page. most heinous.
03:00:37 [docwolf]: the whole thing is a disaster. They could have implemented it in openacs and saved at least $500k.
03:00:59 [docwolf]: again, what slays me is that the site isn't at all complicated, nor is it super high-volume.
03:01:17 [docwolf]: (in their wildest fantasies they'd only get 100k users)
03:01:55 [docwolf]: and the reason i know they're using weblogic & java is because of the heinous messages it was throwing back at me, the helpless end-user.
03:02:09 [donb]: I wonder if the "dot-bomb" could've been partially avoided if people had used good tools reasonably priced and licensed rather than spend so much on piece-of-shit proprietary systems that were thrown together hastily?
03:02:30 [donb]: I mean the ACS was largely thrown together hastily but the licensing was reasonable!
03:03:22 [docwolf]: hehe. reasonably priced tools would have helped; stuff like this is just terrifying though.. realize that these nudnicks take out full-page ads in the Journal of the American Medical Association ($$$$$)
03:03:48 [Spork]: lol
03:03:50 [docwolf]: they clearly have more money than brains. The idea is good, the implementation is awful.
03:03:58 [donb]: Huh ... what's the registration fee? Or do they have another revenue model?
03:04:17 [docwolf]: after the "free trial" it's $25 a month.
03:04:31 [docwolf]: which is actually reasonable, b/c continuing education can be really expensive.
03:05:14 [donb]: Yes, it is very reasonable. They'll need decent market penetration to make decent revenue at that rate, though. Maybe they feel that it's so low that no doctor who hears about it can justify not registering.
03:06:13 [docwolf]: yeah. their value proposition is good -- cheap CME, and lectures by people who are actually respected in the field.
03:06:46 [docwolf]: (as an example, if I don't do my education credits with these people, i've got to go to a 4 day seminar, which costs about $2000, when all is said & done)
03:06:48 [donb]: Another words the people who built the site aren't lecturing :)
03:06:55 [docwolf]: haha
03:07:01 [donb]: Damn in other words, my mind's tired.
03:07:31 [docwolf]: actually, i looked at the management staff -- the company was founded by jerry della famina (the advertising exec from NYC..) totally wacky.
03:08:10 [donb]: Well ... he obviously has a good idea ...
03:09:17 [docwolf]: it's just a shame, though. If he'd hired in a small, crack team with folks like yourself
03:09:31 [docwolf]: he would have gotten a better result for less money.
03:10:11 [donb]: Hmmm...I'd prefer the "better result for the same money" myself!
03:10:17 [docwolf]: haha
03:10:29 [docwolf]: I'm also not convinced that they needed to shell out bucks to Larry Ellison.
03:10:52 [docwolf]: if you look at the site, there are almost no financial transactions... or transactions of any type, for that matter.
03:11:33 [docwolf]: i wonder if he just brought in some dolts from Accenture who told him "exactly what they needed"
03:12:08 [donb]: Something like that, I'm sure...
03:13:36 [donb]: Well ... I'm going to run off and try to get a little more work done ...
03:13:45 [donb]: See y'all later.
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03:23:26 [Spork]: arg
03:23:37 [Spork]: I can't do my Oracle statements in Sybase =(
03:23:45 [Spork]: Hey Vinod!
03:23:56 [Spork]: you missed Don, he was venting =)
03:25:15 [docwolf]: now that web/db is almost dead, he has no good place to explode.
03:25:42 [Spork]: lol
03:26:08 [markd2]: heh
03:26:33 [markd2]: I figured docwolf would license a tradmarked DonB 'you suck' letter
03:26:41 [markd2]: ow ow ow ow ow
03:26:46 [markd2]: both my legs fell asleep with a cat on them
03:26:50 [markd2]: and now they're waking up
03:26:51 [Spork]: Ahahaha
03:26:59 [Spork]: * Spork pokes them with a psychephylax
03:27:03 [markd2]: ouch!
03:27:31 [Spork]: i have to remember how to program in Java
03:27:40 [Spork]: I want my rest :(
03:27:56 [markd2]: use lots of objects
03:28:04 [davb_]: have fun, I'll be back tomorrow!
03:28:07 [Spork]: heh
03:28:08 [Spork]: ok
03:28:19 [Spork]: I'll be back here tomorrow waiting ;)
03:28:28 [Spork]: * Spork wonders if Vinod is awake
03:28:33 [davb_]: davb_ has quit
03:30:49 [vinod]: what was donb ranting about?
03:31:16 [vinod]: * vinod is barely awake
03:31:17 [docwolf]: poor code from aD
03:31:25 [Spork]: Oh about poor coding on Wimpy Point's part
03:31:38 [Spork]: They made something a key that wasn't supposed to be ;)
03:31:39 [vinod]: ahhh... (phew) ... i'm always worried it's gonna be about bad code from me :-)
03:31:45 [Spork]: nah
03:31:47 [Spork]: someone else though heeh
03:32:02 [Spork]: oy
03:32:05 [Spork]: I have so much crap to do
03:34:22 [Spork]: Vinod, are you going to be around tomorrow morning?
03:34:59 [vinod]: i dunno - my life is quite unpredictable ;-)
03:35:03 [Spork]: heh
03:35:13 [markd2]: he is a super-hero, after all
03:35:16 [Spork]: I gotta get that Oracle problem fixed asap or I won't make any progress
03:35:23 [Spork]: lol
03:35:35 [Spork]: Boss gets mad when I make no progress
03:35:43 [vinod]: markd2: no... docwolf is the superhero
03:35:51 [markd2]: that's right
03:35:57 [markd2]: you're the Trusty Side-Kick
03:36:15 [Spork]: Don't you mean Site-kick?
03:36:17 [vinod]: at your service!
03:36:25 [vinod]: heh
03:36:58 [Spork]: Vinod, so you have any ideas what it might be off the top of your head?
03:37:08 [vinod]: Spork: did you run that last query that i asked about before you left this afternoon?
03:37:19 [Spork]: nope ;( let me do it now...
03:37:49 [Spork]: let's hope Dave's box is on now
03:38:23 [Spork]: looks doubtful
03:38:32 [Spork]: Page cannot be displayed =-(
03:39:07 [vinod]: declare v_id integer; begin snmp_incident.new(mac_address => 'junk', problem_id => 1 ); end;
03:39:36 [Spork]: ERROR at line 1:
03:39:36 [Spork]: ORA-06550: line 1, column 29:
03:39:36 [Spork]: PLS-00221: 'NEW' is not a procedure or is undefined
03:39:36 [Spork]: ORA-06550: line 1, column 29:
03:39:36 [Spork]: PL/SQL: Statement ignored
03:39:53 [vinod]: sorry
03:40:10 [vinod]: stick a 'v_id := ' before snmp_incident
03:40:15 [Spork]: ok
03:40:16 [Spork]: but
03:40:22 [Spork]: there's 2 parameters I must pass on as well
03:40:26 [Spork]: for new to work
03:40:33 [Spork]: problem_id and comments
03:41:16 [vinod]: comments is default null (in the file you sent me)
03:41:25 [Spork]: oh
03:41:27 [vinod]: only mac_address and problem_id are needed
03:41:27 [Spork]: heh
03:41:53 [Spork]: aha
03:41:55 [Spork]: ERROR at line 1:
03:41:55 [Spork]: ORA-02291: integrity constraint (MYOPENACS.ACS_OBJECTS_OBJECT_TYPE_FK) violated
03:41:55 [Spork]: - parent key not found
03:41:55 [Spork]: ORA-06512: at "MYOPENACS.ACS_OBJECT", line 68
03:41:55 [Spork]: ORA-06512: at "MYOPENACS.SNMP_INCIDENT", line 39
03:41:56 [Spork]: ORA-06512: at line 1
03:42:01 [Spork]: that's the error alright =(
03:42:50 [Spork]: I am not sure what it's doing
03:42:56 [vinod]: markd2: is there a way to list a package function's code from sqlplus?
03:43:03 [Spork]: pointing at my object and failing or me pointing a diff
03:43:03 [markd2]: yeah
03:43:04 [Spork]: yeah
03:43:05 [Spork]: wait
03:43:08 [Spork]: let me try answering =)
03:43:18 [markd2]: user_source I think
03:43:21 [Spork]: select * from user_source
03:43:22 [markd2]: * markd2 fires up a shell window
03:43:23 [Spork]: heh
03:44:37 [donb]: donb has joined #openacs
03:45:03 [donb]: Well for those who are there I wasn't quite right about the CR's sitewide uniqueness constraint on items ...
03:45:20 [Spork]: hi Don
03:45:24 [donb]: It's a uniqueness constraint for items with the same parent, i.e. in the folder ...
03:45:30 [Spork]: Don
03:45:34 [Spork]: Maybe you can help
03:45:34 [donb]: Yeah ...
03:45:42 [donb]: If it's quick ...
03:45:43 [Spork]: Have you ever seen a parent key constraint violation?
03:46:00 [donb]: Nope ...
03:46:07 [Spork]: ORA-02291: integrity constraint (MYOPENACS.ACS_OBJECTS_OBJECT_TYPE_FK)
03:46:07 [Spork]: violated
03:46:11 [markd2]: sounds kinky
03:46:28 [vinod]: * vinod pulls markd2's head out of the gutter
03:46:33 [Spork]: i am not sure if it's my objects not introducing themselves correctly or if it's an openacs bug
03:47:24 [markd2]: vinod: SQL> select line from user_source where name='PA_PHOTO' order by line;
03:47:31 [markd2]: you'll probably want to do a 'set pagesize 5000' first
03:47:38 [vinod]: thanks markd2
03:47:50 [donb]: It's telling you you're referencing an object type that doesn't exist.
03:47:57 [Spork]: right
03:48:15 [Spork]: but is it my object that doesn't exist or am I referencing something that doesn't exist
03:48:41 [donb]: You're trying to create an object of type "foo" where there's no object_type "foo" defined.
03:48:43 [Spork]: because my snmp_incident object does exist
03:49:03 [donb]: What's the "new" you're executing?
03:49:58 [Spork]: snmp_incident.new(params)
03:50:44 [Spork]: what table can I check to make sure my stuff is in there properly?
03:51:36 [donb]: Sure, but what are the params, in particular the "object_type" param?
03:51:53 [Spork]: ummm
03:52:48 [Spork]: a problem_id (a number mapping to a problem description) a mac_address and a few parameters that have a default value generated so I haven't worried about those yet since the problem occurs when I pass 2 things in only
03:53:39 [donb]: It supposedly defaults to "acs_objects", which of course exists. You might be passing in NULL as the constraint is also "not null" ...
03:53:57 [Spork]: what do you mean?
03:54:26 [Spork]: you mean I try to stick a null into a not null column?
03:54:54 [donb]: Either that or your passing something in the wrong position if you're not using the "parameter_name => value" notation.
03:55:05 [Spork]: hmmm
03:55:12 [Spork]: lemme look at my pl/sql block
03:55:18 [donb]: Right ...
03:55:30 [donb]: Well I've got to run again, sorry, haven't eaten yet and it's 8 PM ...
03:55:35 [Spork]: it's ok
03:55:40 [Spork]: I'll cover those bases
03:55:40 [vinod]: seeya don
03:55:44 [donb]: donb has quit
03:56:48 [Spork]: well, I am using parameter_name => value binds
03:56:52 [Spork]: so that's not the problem
03:57:13 [Spork]: so let's look for null insertions into NN constraints
03:57:38 [Spork]: Vinod, here's a question for you
03:57:50 [Spork]: You still got my create file somewhere?
03:58:44 [Spork]: * Spork pokes Vinod ;)
03:59:31 [vinod]: yep i got it. i'll be back in a sec
03:59:36 [Spork]: ok
03:59:45 [Spork]: I found one spot that's a null
03:59:55 [Spork]: but that should be taken care of acs_objects
04:10:27 [Spork]: back yet?
04:15:24 [markd2]: he's prolly out saving lives
04:15:35 [Spork]: Pshhh
04:15:43 [Spork]: I thought he went to do something important =)
04:17:32 [vinod]: i'm back. i told the nurse to keep the pt alive til i fix spork's problem
04:18:00 [vinod]: found yer problem
04:18:10 [rbm]: "Hold it there! Don't die on me! I've got a quick hack to make and I'll be right back"
04:18:29 [vinod]: lol - i can see the lawyers circling around me :-)
04:19:25 [rbm]: Yeah. Just like their sister species: vulturs
04:19:41 [vinod]: Spork: oracle apparently uses the param defaults that you supply in the PACKAGE definition, not the PACKAGE BODY definition
04:19:50 [vinod]: haha
04:19:58 [markd2]: that makes sense
04:20:37 [vinod]: you have object_type defaulting to 'incident' in the declaration, but 'snmp_incident' in the body
04:21:45 [Spork]: oh
04:21:57 [vinod]: markd2: what do you use for quick debug statements in plsql - is it dbms_output?
04:22:26 [markd2]: yeah
04:22:29 [Spork]: ok
04:22:32 [Spork]: so what I have to do is...
04:22:33 [markd2]: dbms_output.putln (or maybe putline)
04:22:46 [markd2]: put_line
04:22:51 [vinod]: ohhhhhh
04:22:52 [markd2]: set serveroutput on size 10000
04:23:02 [vinod]: i was trying dbms_output.put
04:23:35 [vinod]: and i guess oracle keeps adding to the line until you do a put_line
04:24:01 [Spork]: Vinod, I don't see where I have incident for my object
04:24:40 [Spork]: i have a create or replace package snmp_incidernt
04:24:41 [Spork]: as
04:24:45 [Spork]: function new (
04:25:05 [Spork]: but I don't see where I'm delcaring object_type to be incident by default
04:25:34 [vinod]: the file you sent me has: object_type in acs_object_types.object_type%TYPE default 'incident',
04:26:47 [Spork]: aha
04:26:51 [Spork]: it was at the bottom
04:26:56 [Spork]: so I have to change that to snmp_incident
04:27:06 [vinod]: yep
04:28:39 [Spork]: heh
04:28:48 [Spork]: * Spork tries doing a modem lookup
04:29:24 [markd2]: * markd2 is up way past his bedtime
04:29:45 [Spork]: wooohooo!
04:29:47 [Spork]: ora8.c:3568:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-01400: cannot insert NULL into ("MYOPENACS"."SNMP_INCIDENTS"."CM_RCV_PWR")
04:29:47 [Spork]: ORA-06512: at "MYOPENACS.SNMP_INCIDENT", line 47
04:29:47 [Spork]: ORA-06512: at line 1
04:30:00 [vinod]: * vinod slips caffeine into markd2's cookies
04:30:06 [Spork]: rofl
04:30:15 [markd2]: * markd2 shakes, rattles, and rolls off the chair
04:30:18 [Spork]: You know...this isn't ACS related but I figured I'll tell ya all anyway
04:30:48 [Spork]: I might not like ACS, I might not love Oracle (but I do :)) or what I'm doing with it...but if I didn't have to do this I wouldn't have made friends here =)
04:31:19 [markd2]: awwwwww
04:31:27 [vinod]: * vinod sheds a tear
04:31:29 [markd2]: * markd2 takes the pins out of the Psychephalyx doll
04:31:30 [Spork]: hehehe
04:31:40 [Spork]: Wow, my headache is gone!
04:31:42 [vinod]: * vinod is waiting for spork to ask for money now
04:31:48 [Spork]: heh
04:31:52 [vinod]: :-)
04:31:55 [markd2]: it is the local classical station's beg week
04:31:55 [Spork]: I was expecting you to ask for money instead
04:31:56 [Spork]: lol
04:32:22 [Spork]: That oracle error was driving me nuts and I don't think I would have been able to figure it out on my own
04:32:33 [vinod]: you've just heard 2 minutes of mozart. give us money and we'll play another minute
04:32:33 [Spork]: at least not by the 9th of when my demo is due
04:32:54 [vinod]: Spork: here's how i woulda figured it out (maybe)
04:33:10 [Spork]: * Spork listens
04:33:20 [vinod]: we knew it was crapping out because it didn't find a proper acs_object_type
04:33:33 [Spork]: right
04:33:37 [vinod]: so, first select * from acs_object_type and see if my object_type is there
04:33:58 [Spork]: ok
04:34:01 [Spork]: and if it was
04:34:06 [Spork]: snmp_incident
04:34:06 [rbm]: Wow. I didn't know Amazon had switched to Linux
04:34:09 [rbm]: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7720536.html
04:34:12 [Spork]: Hey Roberto
04:34:20 [vinod]: if so, then see what you are sending to acs_object.new as object_type
04:34:33 [vinod]: i assumed 'snmp_incident'
04:34:43 [markd2]: markd2 has quit
04:34:51 [vinod]: but then i stuck in a debug line before the call and found out that it was 'incident'
04:35:02 [Spork]: ah
04:35:04 [vinod]: and that was the 'aha' moment :-)
04:35:21 [Spork]: :)
04:35:47 [Spork]: now I must figure out why it's trying to insert null into cm_rcv_pwr
04:35:55 [Spork]: i can figure that out...I think
04:36:06 [Spork]: but I think I will leave that for work
04:36:22 [Spork]: I can't do all my work at home..hehe....
04:36:32 [vinod]: :-)
04:36:41 [Spork]: Vinod, how did you get it to print what it was sending though
04:37:36 [vinod]: i stuck this just before the call to acs_object.new
04:37:41 [vinod]: DBMS_OUTPUT.PUT_LINE('object_type='||object_type);
04:38:29 [Spork]: ah, well, see...I don't know that...
04:38:32 [Spork]: but I will write this down
04:38:50 [vinod]: me neither, that's why i looked it up in my BIG ORACLE BOOK :-)
04:38:55 [Spork]: lol
04:39:11 [vinod]: page 559
04:39:33 [Spork]: mine is in the car :( waiting for it's commute to work tomorrow morning
04:40:24 [vinod]: ahh - you can always check oradoc.photo.net in a pinch
04:40:51 [Spork]: wow
04:40:52 [Spork]: nice
04:40:58 [Spork]: I'll remember that (I hope0
04:46:45 [Spork]: * Spork falls asleep
04:50:00 [Spork]: thanks Vinod (again)
04:50:35 [vinod]: np
04:51:13 [Spork]: Now I need to find out how to change the passwords in sybase and I am all set
04:52:26 [vinod]: can't help you there :-)
04:53:33 [Spork]: heh
04:53:36 [Spork]: I like Oracle
04:53:38 [Spork]: password
04:53:41 [Spork]: Enter new password:
04:54:07 [Spork]: anyway
04:54:08 [Spork]: off to bed
04:54:13 [Spork]: * Spork detaches
04:54:15 [Spork]: see ya tomorrow
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06:36:12 [hazmat]: hello
06:54:58 [rbm]: hi
07:10:26 [hazmat]: hello
07:10:31 [hazmat]: whats shakin
07:12:06 [rbm]: studying for test :(
07:17:20 [hazmat]: bummer...
07:17:33 [hazmat]: whats the test for?
07:20:50 [hazmat]: rbm: good luck
07:30:00 [rbm]: hazmat: It's Operations Research
07:30:27 [hazmat]: ugh... masters?
07:36:44 [hazmat]: funny pic http://www.quad.com.ar/alex/devel.gif
07:38:08 [rbm]: hazmat: I wish. BS CS
07:38:48 [rbm]: heheh
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13:16:52 [Spork]: Spork has quit
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14:06:35 [Spork]: Spork has joined #openacs
14:06:45 [Spork]: arg
14:06:58 [Spork]: Mark, you awake?
14:08:08 [markd2]: somewhat
14:08:15 [Spork]: select from Table
14:08:20 [Spork]: where X like '%F';
14:08:26 [Spork]: is not a valid query right?
14:08:35 [Spork]: and you can't use LIKE to match column names?
14:13:15 [markd2]: correct
14:13:21 [Spork]: ok
14:13:24 [Spork]: thanks
14:14:06 [davb]: davb has joined #openacs
14:14:14 [Spork]: hey DAve
14:14:17 [davb]: Hi
14:16:54 [davb]: http://www.activewords.com/
14:16:55 [davb]: ARGH!
14:17:16 [davb]: Anyway thats is the Windows analog to Launchpad. You can use words to launch applicatitons etc.
14:17:48 [Spork]: heh
14:17:49 [Spork]: brb
14:17:55 [Spork]: I have to go get cleaned up and go to work
14:17:59 [davb]: ok
14:18:03 [Spork]: * Spork detaches
14:18:08 [Spork]: be back in about an hour
14:18:12 [davb]: Does anyone know of an applicaiton like this for Linux?
14:18:19 [davb]: Of course I can just type in a shell :)
14:52:29 [til]: til has joined #openacs
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14:59:59 [k2pts]: hi everybody
15:00:38 [davb]: Hello k2pts
15:00:54 [k2pts]: hi davb
15:02:36 [k2pts]: davb: I am going to take some time to finish 4.3 today. If you had the chance to try it, I would appreciate any feedback. If not, you can always test it after it's done (which hopefully it will be some time tonight)
15:02:49 [k2pts]: s/any/your
15:04:30 [davb]: I'll see what I can do. On oracle?
15:06:14 [k2pts]: yes Oracle would be better. thanx
15:09:56 [k2pts]: need to go off and do some work. later guys.
15:11:15 [ola]: ola has joined #openacs
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15:12:15 [ola]: hi dudes.
15:13:18 [davb]: hello ola. I fixed that bug and checked it in.
15:14:48 [davb]: oops. Oracle still uses blobs for static-pages. I wonder if I should change it to use the filesystem?
15:16:12 [ola]: yes, I noticed. cool! I also noticed an unported "decode" in display-policy-toggle.tcl ;-)
15:16:41 [ola]: dave, this is my pet module.
15:16:55 [davb]: Heh. Well then feel free to work on it :)
15:17:18 [davb]: Actually I know one other person who wants it extended and improved. I'll have to check my email.
15:18:00 [davb]: oh there isn;t any xql files for display policy-toggle at all.
15:18:15 [ola]: ok :-)
15:23:34 [docwolf]: docwolf has quit
15:23:50 [davb]: ola: are you interested in working on adding to static-pages?
15:26:09 [davb]: oops. it doesn't show an error, but it also doesn't do anything :)
15:26:18 [ola]: I don't have anything specific to add at the moment, but if something pops up, sure.
15:26:53 [davb]: Ok.
15:27:00 [davb]: I fixed it. committing now.
15:28:55 [davb]: ola: keep the bugs coming! You don't happen to have oracle installed do you?
15:33:50 [Spork]: hi
15:33:55 [ola]: ok I will. no I don't have oracle...
15:34:01 [ola]: hi Spork
15:34:32 [davb]: wb Spork
15:36:02 [Spork]: thanks Dave
15:36:29 [Spork]: muussssstttt....fiiinddddd....ooooutttt...whyyyyy noooo inssseeerttt
15:37:03 [Spork]: i hate having 2 backpacks
15:37:12 [Spork]: I brought up the wrong one upstairs last night
15:37:21 [Spork]: And since I don't do homework...lol...I didn't catch that
15:37:21 [davb]: get different colors?
15:37:27 [Spork]: they are different colors
15:37:29 [Spork]: black and blue
15:37:45 [davb]: heh
15:38:21 [Spork]: and to help those fools were sweeping a highway
15:38:35 [Spork]: Why can't they sweep the other side in the mornings
15:38:47 [Spork]: That would make too much sense I guess
15:43:57 [ola]: davb: I can't see any difference in display between "coments displayed" and "comments summarized".
15:44:28 [ola]: perhaps this is general-coments land?
15:44:52 [ola]: s/coments/comments
15:47:27 [ola]: hmm. I'm logged-in as admin. maybe that's why...
15:53:23 [davb]: ola: not sure...
15:53:34 [davb]: i will be in and out for awhile....
15:54:12 [davb]: ola: i think that is in sp_serve_html_page...probably my fault...
16:01:20 [ola]: that's ok dave.
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16:47:59 [Spork]: D'oh
16:48:01 [Spork]: I got moved again
16:48:17 [ola]: moved?
16:48:43 [Spork]: to a diff desk
16:49:22 [Spork]: be back later
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17:28:14 [davb]: hi donb, k2pts
17:28:23 [k2pts]: hi davb
17:28:44 [davb]: ola and I are cleaning up the remaining bugs in static pages - some work gets done via IRC :)
17:29:01 [k2pts]: :)
17:30:32 [davb]: k2pts: I probably can't get to the workflow test until tonight or tomorrow morning.
17:30:58 [k2pts]: np, I am just starting working on it again.
17:31:11 [Spork]: back
17:31:42 [Spork]: my AOLServer logs are not working anymore
17:31:57 [k2pts]: spork someone should keep "taxis" around here :) noone is talking
17:32:06 [donb]: define "not working" ...
17:32:07 [Spork]: taxis?
17:32:12 [Spork]: nm
17:32:14 [Spork]: I found out why
17:32:19 [Spork]: have another instance bound to 8080
17:32:29 [donb]: That will do it.
17:33:27 [donb]: What are the remaining bugs in static pages?
17:34:14 [Spork]: odd
17:34:15 [davb]: just silly stuff I missed in the www/admin pages.
17:34:17 [Spork]: [31/Oct/2001:12:29:33][6154.9][-conn0-] Notice: bind variable 'cm_rcv_pwr' = '-0.5'
17:34:43 [Spork]: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-01400: cannot insert NULL into ("MYOPENACS"."SNMP_INCIDENTS"."CM_RCV_PWR")
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17:37:54 [Spork]: aha
17:40:42 [Spork]: excellent
17:41:57 [markd2]: suh-weet!!
17:42:02 [markd2]: * markd2 wants to join in
17:44:29 [Spork]: Indeeeeed!
17:44:50 [Spork]: * Spork runs around chanting "It works! it works! it works! it works!'
17:44:56 [markd2]: woo hoo! woo hoo!
17:46:33 [Spork]: :)
17:46:40 [Spork]: now...I gotta get the stuff out of the database =(
17:47:50 [Spork]: any suggestions?
17:50:58 [donb]: Where does it have to go once it's out of the database?
17:51:57 [markd2]: * markd2 suggests /dev/null
17:52:19 [Spork]: Well
17:52:30 [Spork]: my boss wanted it work like this
17:52:41 [Spork]: when you look up a history: it shows 3 key values and incident id
17:53:05 [Spork]: but incident id is a link...you click it, and it brings up the rest of the values (there's about 25)
17:54:19 [donb]: are you typing or is that it?
17:54:24 [markd2]: sorry. can't do that
17:54:27 [markd2]: it's against the rules(tm)
17:54:39 [Spork]: that's it pretty much
17:55:00 [donb]: So what's the question, exactly?
17:55:07 [Spork]: is it doable? hehe
17:55:22 [Spork]: and how do I specify multiple row output
17:55:49 [Spork]: from the db
17:56:18 [markd2]: just about every package does that
17:56:20 [hazmat]: hazmat has joined #openacs
17:56:57 [Spork]: ah
17:57:00 [Spork]: * Spork looks
17:57:04 [donb]: There are all sorts of examples in the toolkit ... check out bboard/forum.tcl and bboard/forum-view.adp
17:57:07 [markd2]: look at db_1row / db_multirow
17:57:15 [Spork]: alright
17:57:24 [markd2]: and the <multiple> for templating
17:57:27 [donb]: Right mark's pointing you to the db api routines, I'm pointing you to a user of those routies.
17:57:31 [donb]: routines, oops
17:57:51 [markd2]: * markd2 nods
17:58:20 [donb]: most of the time you have "foo.tcl" and "foo.adp" but the forum-view.adp template file is shared by a couple of .tcl files that build the datasources somewhat differently.
17:59:18 [donb]: db_multirow and <multiple> make it really easy to whip up pages like this.
17:59:20 [markd2]: Vinod's package that yu're using as a template probably has goodies you can emulate
17:59:26 [adler]: adler has quit
17:59:38 [markd2]: * markd2 should really get his 'o' key fixed
17:59:47 [donb]: Which Vinod package is he using?
18:00:36 [markd2]: I'm not sure
18:00:54 [Spork]: Reserve and Schedule
18:00:55 [markd2]: Probably his 'Crush all hum-mans and invade the earth one"
18:01:00 [Spork]: rofl
18:01:16 [donb]: Would a "I'm-not-sure" package pass the turing test?
18:02:02 [donb]: What's this reserve and schedule package? Something Vinod's doing privately?
18:02:08 [Spork]: probably
18:02:14 [Spork]: it was for hotel reservation stuff
18:02:19 [davb]: I think its a problem-set....?
18:02:28 [donb]: Oh, right ...
18:02:54 [davb]: time for lunch...
18:03:02 [Spork]: laters
18:03:03 [markd2]: markd2 is now known as markb
18:03:06 [markb]: * markb tries to fit in
18:03:12 [Spork]: heh
18:03:17 [Spork]: easy for me to fit in
18:03:21 [Spork]: Spork is now known as nickb_
18:03:25 [nickb_]: arg
18:03:31 [nickb_]: close enough though
18:03:34 [donb]: I've got to run, too ...
18:03:40 [nickb_]: * nickb_ shakes fist angrily at nick@144.136.232.197
18:03:40 [donb]: donb has quit
18:03:44 [hazmat]: damm..
18:03:49 [markb]: markb is now known as markd2
18:03:49 [hazmat]: to late..
18:03:56 [nickb_]: nickb_ is now known as Psychephylax
18:05:33 [Psychephylax]: quick question
18:05:51 [Psychephylax]: Am I gonna have to lock the table when I'm inserting things and so forth?
18:06:04 [Psychephylax]: because it will be a multiuser system so writes can occur concurrently
18:06:50 [markd2]: just general blind inserts, not really depending on what's already there?
18:07:17 [Psychephylax]: ummm
18:07:22 [Psychephylax]: pretty much
18:07:23 [Psychephylax]: there will be updates
18:07:40 [markd2]: no problem - the database will handle that
18:07:49 [markd2]: for the updates, you may need to do some special processing
18:08:01 [markd2]: to lock the row you're updating
18:08:23 [Psychephylax]: Well
18:08:24 [markd2]: select stuff_that_describes_the_row for update; then update it.
18:08:24 [markd2]: that'll prevent another connection from sneaking in and changing it under you
18:08:38 [Psychephylax]: That won't happen
18:08:39 [markd2]: in oracle you rarely have to lock the whole table
18:08:39 [markd2]: and row-locks are super cheap
18:08:49 [Psychephylax]: Because only time someone can update the row is right after they ran the query
18:09:03 [Psychephylax]: afterwards nobody can change it
18:20:31 [k2pts]: k2pts has joined #openacs
18:21:05 [hazmat]: hello k2pts
18:21:16 [k2pts]: hi hazmat
19:27:52 [Psychephylax]: odd
19:28:04 [Psychephylax]: Can't read incident_id no such variable
19:28:47 [davb]: In a Tcl page?
19:28:58 [Psychephylax]: adp/tcl
19:29:00 [Psychephylax]: I did a query
19:29:07 [Psychephylax]: db_multirow incident_id incidents_select {
19:29:07 [Psychephylax]: select incident_id, cm_rcv_pwr, cm_c_to_n_ratio, cm_trans_pwr from snmp_inc\
19:29:07 [Psychephylax]: idents
19:29:07 [Psychephylax]: }
19:29:18 [Psychephylax]: and contracted it:
19:29:20 [Psychephylax]: incident_id:multirow
19:29:37 [Psychephylax]: and then tried outputting it:
19:29:39 [Psychephylax]: @incident_id@
19:29:58 [markd2]: inside of a <multiple> tag, you have to qualify it
19:30:02 [markd2]: incident_id.incident_id
19:30:04 [davb]: Its a multirow. You need to put in in <multiple> tags.
19:30:06 [markd2]: with @@s
19:30:10 [davb]: yes that was what I was going to say
19:30:26 [davb]: or incident_id.cm_rcv_pwr
19:30:31 [markd2]: * markd2 suggests looking at a working example
19:30:38 [davb]: @incident_id.cm_rcv_pwr@
19:30:44 [davb]: Yes, very educational.
19:30:46 [markd2]: 'cause what you describe is very far from a working example
19:33:15 [Psychephylax]: heh
19:36:20 [jerryasher]: jerryasher has joined #openacs
19:36:42 [davb]: Hi jerryasher
19:36:51 [markd2]: greets
19:36:55 [hazmat]: ola jerry
19:37:01 [Psychephylax]: hey Jerry
19:37:08 [jerryasher]: Howdy:
19:37:12 [jerryasher]: Check out: http://www.theashergroup.com/demos/rss/openacs-forums.1.00.xml
19:37:23 [jerryasher]: and http://www.theashergroup.com/demos/rss/openacs-forums.0.91.xml
19:37:44 [hazmat]: nice
19:37:46 [jerryasher]: Syndicatable OpenACS forums
19:37:56 [jerryasher]: Yeah, I want to get Musea to do this for the new site
19:38:28 [davb]: Cool.
19:38:29 [jerryasher]: and it would be real nice to see an underlying openacs api for this for many modules (bugs, ticket tracker, ...)
19:38:57 [hazmat]: acs-service-contract + the data source api for portals would do it.
19:39:05 [Psychephylax]: question
19:39:09 [davb]: hazmat: cool.
19:39:18 [Psychephylax]: I think Dave you ran across this before
19:39:23 [Psychephylax]: ns_returnredirect
19:39:31 [Psychephylax]: does the code after it get executed anyway?
19:39:33 [davb]: I am willing to work on the contracts for the RSS stuff.
19:39:41 [davb]: Psychephylax, I don't recall...
19:40:05 [Psychephylax]: Because I'm checking to see if it's a history and redirecting to run_history
19:40:12 [jerryasher]: davb: sounds good, I'll try to publish some code by the end of today or sometime tomorrow.
19:40:13 [Psychephylax]: but it still stores stuff in the database
19:40:19 [hazmat]: gotta go, bye folks.
19:40:27 [davb]: bye
19:40:34 [markd2]: ns_returnredirect - yes code after it gets executed
19:40:41 [hazmat]: hazmat has quit
19:40:51 [Psychephylax]: how can I make it not execute and go to a diff page on a condition?
19:40:51 [markd2]: that just sends the redirect HTTP jazz to the browser
19:41:11 [markd2]: do the ns_returnredirect, then 'return' to stop execution of the page
19:41:16 [davb]: So perhaps you need to put it inside an IF so that the code doesn't get executed unless it is supposed to.
19:41:40 [Psychephylax]: Thanks Mark
19:44:24 [davb]: jerryasher: that is great!
19:45:01 [jerryasher]: Thanks, it is currently updated by crawling every 20 minutes.
19:45:04 [Psychephylax]: Mark, does ns_returnredirect pass things in the url as well?
19:45:16 [jerryasher]: Better in the API, would be updates when content actually changes.
19:45:42 [davb]: Psychephylax: only what you tell it to.
19:45:49 [markd2]: nope - if you want stuf passed in the url, you'll have to do it yourself
19:46:17 [davb]: i.e. : ns_returnredirect "/page.tcl?parem1=blah&param2=foo" etc...
19:46:36 [markd2]: yeah
19:47:16 [davb]: use export_vars to URLencode the variables if you need to
19:47:35 [davb]: or ad_export_vars...
19:47:47 [davb]: oops, nope export_vars is the good one.
19:50:29 [Psychephylax]: yeah I figured that stuph out
19:50:38 [Psychephylax]: i love getting random errors though
19:52:08 [Psychephylax]: set online_pct [format "%.2f" [expr $online_pct/100.0]]
19:52:18 [Psychephylax]: first one to figure out wha's wrong gets an oracle cookie!
19:52:31 [Psychephylax]: s/wha/what
19:52:32 [markd2]: no space after pct maybe
19:52:40 [markd2]: also, if online_pct isn't a number, it'll error out
19:53:47 [Psychephylax]: or if it's empty
19:54:04 [markd2]: that two
19:55:33 [Psychephylax]: very odd
19:56:11 [markd2]: +1
19:56:14 [markd2]: now we're even
19:58:52 [rbm]: moo
19:59:19 [markd2]: móò
20:00:21 [Psychephylax]: ¿ººm
20:01:08 [rbm]: cool chracters
20:01:11 [Psychephylax]: heh
20:01:14 [rbm]: characters even
20:01:49 [Psychephylax]: :)
20:01:53 [rbm]: how do you type them?
20:02:01 [Psychephylax]: lol
20:02:04 [markd2]: on a mac keyboard it's easy
20:02:05 [Psychephylax]: ok, mark is right
20:02:09 [markd2]: dunno about those other OS's
20:02:19 [Psychephylax]: windows you just have to know the asii mapping
20:02:37 [rbm]: ^WINDOW REFNUM 6
20:02:52 [Psychephylax]: Just hold alt, type that in on the left number thing
20:02:56 [rbm]: you both are on macs?
20:02:59 [Psychephylax]: lol
20:03:00 [Psychephylax]: no
20:03:09 [markd2]: the mac way is much saner - it uses dead keys
20:03:17 [markd2]: option-i puts a hat over the next vowel you type
20:03:17 [Psychephylax]: the windows way is not
20:03:22 [markd2]: âêîôû
20:03:40 [markd2]: option-` does a grave accent, option-e for an acute accent
20:03:46 [markd2]: etc
20:04:09 [markd2]: option-c for cedille ç, option-a for ågnstrom, etc
20:04:20 [rbm]: you can use dead keys on any keyboard
20:04:26 [Psychephylax]: sad that Mark knows all of the names for them
20:06:09 [markd2]: * markd2 took french, latin, and greek in high school
20:06:13 [markd2]: so I got exposed to a lotta stuff
20:07:19 [rbm]: * rbm had english and spanish. We study latin and greek while studying portuguese, since the language comes from those 2 root.s
20:08:00 [markd2]: cool
20:08:09 [markd2]: I wish more amurricans would study latin and greek
20:08:25 [rbm]: markd2: indeed
20:08:29 [k2pts]: yes me too.
20:08:43 [k2pts]: I wouldn't have to learn English
20:08:52 [markd2]: heh
20:08:57 [markd2]: I studied the Old Stuff
20:09:24 [markd2]: I can see a bunch of folks wandering around Cyprus speaking in the homeric dialect
20:09:34 [k2pts]: the only thing I know from the Old Stuff is "ta paideia paizei"
20:09:50 [markd2]: gazheundheit
20:09:57 [k2pts]: which means "the kids are playing"
20:10:27 [k2pts]: gazheundheit?
20:10:40 [markd2]: "ta paideia paizei" could be intrpreted as a sneezing noise
20:10:41 [Psychephylax]: arg
20:11:19 [Psychephylax]: excellent
20:15:59 [Psychephylax]: how come it's rounding the things off
20:16:01 [Psychephylax]: damn it
20:17:56 [markd2]: leaving sharp corners could open the language to a lawsuit
20:18:17 [rbm]: so many buzzwords in one single e-mai
20:18:56 [rbm]: "ArsDigita will focus on what it calls ''enterprise collaboration management'' - software that will help large groups use the Web to work together more efficiently"
20:19:15 [markd2]: * markd2 retches
20:19:23 [markd2]: oops, sorry
20:19:26 [markd2]: reflex action
20:19:28 [rbm]: I guess that's a super different concept from the 1998 "web community"
20:20:10 [markd2]: correct
20:20:22 [markd2]: ECM is Web Community, but written in Java
20:20:49 [rbm]: ooohhhhhh! WOW! That's so innovative!
20:20:55 [davb]: Isn't everything written in Java prefixed with Enterprise?
20:21:37 [rbm]: hehehe
20:22:02 [markd2]: Even the new TV show
20:22:08 [markd2]: it's just in small type so you can't read it on the TV
20:23:18 [rbm]: * rbm goes to a boring class
20:23:24 [rbm]: bbl
20:23:42 [jerryasher]: Just last week T'Pol asked the replicators for a cup of Java
20:23:50 [markd2]: whoa
20:23:52 [jerryasher]: and as you would expect out came tarry slime
20:23:54 [markd2]: I haven't seen it since the pilot
20:23:58 [markd2]: any more jello detox scenes?
20:24:09 [Psychephylax]: Here's a good question for you
20:24:15 [jerryasher]: (i'm not sure they were replicators since those are based on transporter technology
20:24:20 [Psychephylax]: why is Oracle storing integers and not reals
20:24:20 [jerryasher]: )
20:24:31 [jerryasher]: * jerryasher rbm has been following slashdot links again
20:24:54 [jerryasher]: * jerryasher oops, that's markd2
20:24:58 [markd2]: heh
20:25:22 [markd2]: do a describe on your table, and paste in what your real column says it is
20:25:28 [Psychephylax]: k
20:25:46 [Psychephylax]: CMTS_RCV_PWR NUMBER(20) IN DEFAULT
20:26:00 [Psychephylax]: I'm guessing it's the (20)
20:26:54 [Psychephylax]: * Psychephylax gets out his big oracle book
20:26:55 [markd2]: right. it should be 20,X for stuff with stuff after the decimal
20:27:03 [markd2]: what did you use in your table when you created it?
20:27:45 [Psychephylax]: what do you mean
20:28:10 [markd2]: you had to do a 'create table' at some point in time
20:28:15 [markd2]: what did you use for that column
20:28:36 [Psychephylax]: create table...
20:28:52 [Psychephylax]: cm_rcv_pwr number(20)...
20:28:58 [markd2]: there you go
20:29:06 [markd2]: didn't tell it to store anything after the decimal point
20:29:29 [Psychephylax]: so it's 20.5
20:29:29 [Psychephylax]: ?
20:29:50 [Psychephylax]: I only want like 345.06 but not 345.06000
20:30:46 [markd2]: then number (20,2) (I think)
20:31:12 [Psychephylax]: ok
20:31:12 [ola]: ola has quit
20:31:54 [markd2]: * markd2 waits for his cookie
20:33:25 [Psychephylax]: * Psychephylax gives Mark a cookie
20:33:28 [Psychephylax]: want some milk?
20:33:47 [markd2]: sure!
20:33:54 [markd2]: thanks!
20:34:16 [Psychephylax]: * Psychephylax pours Mark a nice glass of milk
20:34:52 [markd2]: mmmm.... comfort foods....
20:36:58 [Psychephylax]: lol
20:46:13 [jerryasher]: jerryasher has quit
20:47:21 [Psychephylax]: ok
20:47:23 [Psychephylax]: this is beyond me
20:48:58 [markd2]: scoot closer
21:04:09 [davb]: Wow. a 1Ghz processor for $67!!!
21:06:08 [vinod]: vinod has joined #openacs
21:06:21 [vinod]: * vinod waves
21:06:23 [davb]: Hi vinod!
21:06:51 [vinod]: hey dave!
21:06:53 [Psychephylax]: Hey Vinod
21:07:01 [markd2]: yo
21:07:01 [Psychephylax]: Dave, where at?
21:07:18 [vinod]: howdy!
21:07:29 [davb]: newegg.com. Its an Athlon of course.
21:08:02 [Psychephylax]: Of course
21:08:05 [Psychephylax]: socket a?
21:08:30 [davb]: yes.
21:08:47 [vinod]: davb: did you ever figure out that network weirdness? I noticed that thedesignexperience.org points to deepsky
21:08:55 [davb]: thats the DURON. The thunderbird is $1 more
21:09:11 [davb]: vinod: oh...I turned off the virtual hosting...didn't help.
21:09:25 [davb]: Maybe i'll switch it back so at least the domain is correct...
21:11:07 [davb]: I suspect a hardware failure anyway...
21:11:59 [vinod]: ahh... bummer.
21:12:18 [davb]: Yeah. I need to order a new NIC I think. But I probably should replace the cable first.
21:13:24 [til]: til has quit
21:23:05 [Psychephylax]: Mark, you want to earn another cookie?
21:23:09 [markd2]: sure!
21:23:11 [Psychephylax]: Ok
21:23:40 [Psychephylax]: If I have cm_rcv_pwr number(30,2) and it encounters a -5.9
21:23:43 [Psychephylax]: what would it store?
21:24:01 [markd2]: -5.90 I think
21:24:09 [Psychephylax]: Well, that ain't it =(
21:24:11 [Psychephylax]: -59
21:24:54 [Psychephylax]: hmmm
21:24:55 [Psychephylax]: wait
21:24:58 [Psychephylax]: maybe it's my fault again
21:24:58 [markd2]: huh?
21:25:00 [markd2]: SQL> create table test (blah number(30,2));
21:25:01 [markd2]: Table created.
21:25:01 [markd2]: SQL> insert into test values (-5.9);
21:25:02 [markd2]: 1 row created.
21:25:02 [markd2]: SQL> select * from test;
21:25:02 [markd2]: BLAH
21:25:04 [markd2]: ----------
21:25:06 [markd2]: -5.9
21:25:30 [vinod]: never underestimate the correctness of a markd2
21:25:40 [Psychephylax]: heh
21:25:40 [Psychephylax]: ok
21:25:45 [markd2]: heh
21:25:51 [Psychephylax]: must figure out why I fucked up then
21:25:52 [markd2]: I'm incorrect enough to be paranoid
21:25:57 [Psychephylax]: rofl
21:25:59 [vinod]: lol
21:26:04 [Psychephylax]: I'm using that as my quote from now on =)
21:26:35 [markd2]: heh
21:29:31 [davb]: I'm going home!
21:29:35 [davb]: davb has quit
21:35:31 [Psychephylax]: buggy
21:37:27 [markd2]: not bad
21:38:29 [Psychephylax]: Tomorrow!
21:38:33 [Psychephylax]: 100 :)
21:38:42 [markd2]: woo hoo!
21:38:52 [Psychephylax]: what's the -query thing used for?
21:39:38 [markd2]: -query thing on what?
21:39:59 [Psychephylax]: ad_page_contract
21:40:36 [Psychephylax]: and here's one more questoin
21:40:43 [Psychephylax]: is there a way to do this
21:41:06 [Psychephylax]: I have to write a select statement that yanks everything out
21:41:15 [Psychephylax]: I don't really want to type up 25 diff column names
21:41:44 [Psychephylax]: is there a one quick and easy way of yanking it out that I can still reference
21:41:45 [markd2]: you can select *
21:41:53 [markd2]: the column names will be there just as before
21:42:04 [markd2]: they're acutally pulled from the result set returned from the db, not from the select statement
21:42:08 [Psychephylax]: oh, I can still do incident.blah
21:42:12 [markd2]: yep
21:42:16 [Psychephylax]: cool!
21:44:10 [Psychephylax]: now I'm getting to the fun stuff of OpenACS and Oracle =)
21:44:17 [markd2]: yep
21:44:22 [markd2]: the UI stuff is the fun part
21:44:29 [Psychephylax]: I know
21:44:29 [Psychephylax]: hehe
21:45:03 [Psychephylax]: One thing I don't like about this (of course due to my lack of knowledge) is how do I make my stuff more abstract so it's independent on certain things
21:45:16 [Psychephylax]: like row counts or columns
21:47:03 [markd2]: yeah.
21:47:09 [markd2]: I dunno if the db_* api has goodies for doing that
21:47:15 [markd2]: the aolserver api does
21:47:29 [Psychephylax]: I want to make this more "generic" i guess
21:47:29 [markd2]: you can grovel through the result set and get the column names
21:47:53 [markd2]: write it twice non-generically, then the parts you need to genericize will be obvious
21:48:09 [Psychephylax]: I probably will have to write it more than twice
21:48:14 [Psychephylax]: that's why I want to make it generic
21:57:31 [Psychephylax]: muahaha
22:09:52 [k2pts]: k2pts has left #openacs
22:14:44 [Psychephylax]: I want my HTML book
22:24:17 [markd2]: * markd2 wants his MTV
22:33:09 [k2pts]: k2pts has joined #openacs
22:34:12 [Psychephylax]: wb
22:36:55 [k2pts]: thanx
22:37:00 [Psychephylax]: heh
22:37:12 [Psychephylax]: Typing out tables by hand is a lot more tedious than in Dreamweaver
22:37:36 [k2pts]: never used it
22:37:40 [markd2]: me neither
22:38:03 [Psychephylax]: Oh man
22:38:11 [Psychephylax]: You guys are missing out =)
22:38:27 [k2pts]: emacs is better
22:38:36 [markd2]: I get frustrated with wysiwyg html tools
22:38:41 [k2pts]: same here
22:38:58 [k2pts]: which btw is wysinwyg
22:39:31 [k2pts]: most of the times
22:39:38 [Psychephylax]: nah
22:39:42 [Psychephylax]: Dreamweaver kicks ass
22:39:47 [k2pts]: rofl
22:39:50 [Psychephylax]: It's made by Macromedia
22:40:02 [Psychephylax]: not like FrontPage
22:40:03 [k2pts]: i don't use flash either
22:40:09 [vinod]: but how do you guys do all the javascript rollovers and animated gifs that are so important for all websites ;-)
22:40:41 [markd2]: with Java applets
22:40:43 [k2pts]: i don't :) I only develop for oacs thus far
22:40:46 [vinod]: lol
22:41:00 [k2pts]: don't know java either :)
22:41:14 [Psychephylax]: * Psychephylax gives Mark a cookie
22:41:34 [Psychephylax]: Mark, if I store 603.00 in Oracle
22:41:37 [Psychephylax]: will it toss the .00?
22:41:58 [vinod]: i cringe everytime someone asks me to add more rollovers to a site
22:42:11 [Psychephylax]: lol
22:42:15 [Psychephylax]: i hate them
22:42:21 [markd2]: it'll store the value 603, which is the same representation as 603.00000000....
22:42:24 [Psychephylax]: They were cute back in 93
22:42:29 [Psychephylax]: right
22:42:41 [Psychephylax]: So I don't have to wonder why it's printing out 603 in the page
22:42:53 [markd2]: what do you get from sqlplus?
22:43:03 [markd2]: or are you wanting 603.00 ?
22:43:43 [Psychephylax]: I get 603
22:43:51 [Psychephylax]: i wouldn't mind a 603.00
22:44:13 [Psychephylax]: I don't want the dummies at level 1 techsupport get thrown off by 603 instead of 603.00
22:44:14 [Psychephylax]: lol
22:44:50 [markd2]: I haven't done that m'self
22:44:54 [markd2]: but format might do it for you
22:45:20 [Psychephylax]: heh
22:45:54 [rbm]: * rbm is back
22:46:40 [k2pts]: wb rbm
22:51:08 [rbm]: tks k2pts
22:52:17 [Psychephylax]: i wish there was an easy way to send someone to the page they just came from without telling them to "Press back please"
22:52:18 [markd2]: * markd2 lvs abbrvs
22:52:28 [Psychephylax]: lol
22:52:42 [markd2]: javascript.goBack, or something like that?
22:52:47 [Psychephylax]: kinda
22:52:51 [Psychephylax]: but in OACS =)
22:52:59 [rbm]: javascript.history(-1)
22:53:04 [Psychephylax]: hah
22:53:12 [Psychephylax]: Can I use jscript in an ADP page?
22:53:17 [markd2]: sure
22:53:19 [rbm]: why wouldn't you?
22:53:22 [Psychephylax]: i dunno
22:53:23 [markd2]: to the ADP it's just text
22:53:29 [Psychephylax]: you guys have your crooked set ways of doing stuph
22:53:31 [rbm]: s/wouldn't/couldn't/
22:53:38 [markd2]: you could put client-side FORTRAN if you wanted to
22:53:44 [Psychephylax]: i'll pass
22:53:56 [markd2]: * markd2 should write a client-side fortran applet in java
22:54:00 [rbm]: ssl.usu.edu? What's that for?
22:54:03 [rbm]: oops
22:54:21 [markd2]: dang! my search for "spaghetti-O fetish" turned up no hits!
22:54:32 [markd2]: uh, wrong window. sorry
22:55:02 [Psychephylax]: alrighty
22:55:10 [Psychephylax]: how about this
22:55:15 [vinod]: markd2: actually, if talli was here, that would be an appropriate query
22:55:27 [Psychephylax]: I need to color the cell of a table a color if the value is out of a specific range
22:55:30 [markd2]: really!
22:55:45 [Psychephylax]: lol
22:55:52 [vinod]: :-) anything's game with him
22:55:52 [markd2]: I guess I should invite him to the Western PA Spaghetti-O Fetish Society
22:56:01 [Psychephylax]: Mark, do you want me to give you spaghetti-O's now?
22:56:16 [markd2]: no - just cookies
22:56:19 [Psychephylax]: ok
22:56:22 [markd2]: didn't mean to let the whole world know
22:56:22 [Psychephylax]: * Psychephylax waves a cookie
22:56:24 [markd2]: darn this IRC!
22:56:26 [vinod]: yeah, don't get him excited
22:56:30 [Psychephylax]: lol
22:56:45 [markd2]: * markd2 looks around suspiciously
22:56:57 [Psychephylax]: So, say I have a value I use @cm_rcv_pwr@ in my adp page (the value is yanked out of Oracle)
22:57:05 [markd2]: this is frightening.
22:57:13 [Psychephylax]: Could I do this set color = ""
22:57:15 [markd2]: a little java program I'm working n. t run, the resident size is 11 megs
22:57:20 [markd2]: and the total process size is 217 megs!
22:57:31 [vinod]: ouch
22:57:31 [markd2]: * markd2 is horrified
22:57:35 [Psychephylax]: if @cm_rcv_pwr@ < val || @cm_rcv_pwr@ > val then
22:57:52 [Psychephylax]: set color = "cookiecolor"
22:57:52 [Psychephylax]: }
22:57:56 [Psychephylax]: something like that?
22:58:44 [vinod]: Psychephylax: try it. does it work?
22:58:48 [Psychephylax]: no idea
22:58:49 [Psychephylax]: lol
22:58:55 [vinod]: i think it should, but i'm not sure of the syntax
22:59:11 [vinod]: oh wait - no
22:59:20 [vinod]: i think your combining adp and tcl
22:59:29 [vinod]: s/your/you're
23:00:04 [Psychephylax]: i am
23:00:12 [Psychephylax]: i want to check some tcl stuph
23:00:14 [Psychephylax]: ack
23:00:24 [Psychephylax]: I need to check to make sure if a value is in a range
23:00:30 [Psychephylax]: if it's good, color green
23:00:39 [Psychephylax]: if it's borderline, color yellow
23:00:43 [Psychephylax]: if it's bad, color red
23:01:22 [markd2]: make a pl/sql proc to make the determination. have it return one of three strings 'green' 'yellow' 'red'
23:01:35 [markd2]: then you can do a blind color=@cookie.color@
23:01:36 [Psychephylax]: ummm
23:01:44 [markd2]: or yo ucan do it in the adp, using the <if> tag
23:01:47 [markd2]: but that's kind of tedious
23:01:55 [markd2]: specially if you want to reuse the stuff elsewhere
23:02:05 [Psychephylax]: reuse= good
23:02:21 [Psychephylax]: let's see if i can put forth my ORacle powers and spew forth a procedure
23:02:50 [markd2]: * markd2 avoids watching Psychephylax spew
23:03:08 [Psychephylax]: i don't have to make a whole package do I
23:03:19 [markd2]: nope
23:03:23 [Psychephylax]: ok
23:03:30 [Psychephylax]: oh wait
23:03:36 [Psychephylax]: It's in my ORacle book
23:03:38 [Psychephylax]: I read this before
23:03:42 [Psychephylax]: * Psychephylax searches for it
23:05:23 [rbm]: any GIMP artists out there?
23:05:33 [Psychephylax]: I know of some pimps
23:05:36 [markd2]: * markd2 has the artistic talent of a unripe melon
23:05:36 [Psychephylax]: but no gimps
23:06:21 [rbm]: * rbm has the graphic talent of an amoeba
23:07:03 [markd2]: * markd2 is unworthy
23:08:29 [rbm]: I need to go back to playing piano. I felt good playing piano.
23:08:53 [rbm]: Especially after I learned that music has the power to significantly increase cognitive ability
23:08:59 [markd2]: yep
23:09:03 [markd2]: I'm a music junkie
23:09:09 [Psychephylax]: me too
23:09:11 [markd2]: if I don't have a group to play with, I just Don't Feel Right
23:09:33 [Psychephylax]: Mark, this book has a total of 10 pages on how do what I want to do
23:09:42 [markd2]: excellent!
23:09:50 [Psychephylax]: got any good sites for writing an oracle thing to compare stuph
23:10:16 [rbm]: markd2: That's cool. What do you play?
23:10:19 [rbm]: * rbm loves music
23:10:27 [markd2]: trombone and bassoon
23:10:32 [rbm]: nice
23:10:34 [markd2]: and the spousal overunit & I try to sing in a choir
23:10:43 [rbm]: I used to sing in a choir
23:10:53 [markd2]: It's been an amazing help to my pitch
23:11:02 [markd2]: I'm not sure I'm an amazing help to the group :-)
23:11:14 [rbm]: I have 3 things I'd like to learn how to play: violin, guitar and drums.
23:11:35 [rbm]: After I re-learn piano. It's been several years I stopped playingc
23:11:55 [markd2]: I tried to learn viola
23:12:03 [markd2]: (traded programming lessons to a really cute viola player)
23:12:12 [markd2]: but years of holding up a bass trombone had screwed up my left wrist
23:12:16 [markd2]: just too painful to play
23:12:24 [markd2]: I should try the upright bass one of these days
23:13:52 [Psychephylax]: mark, any sources on how do what I want?
23:14:26 [markd2]: nt that I know of
23:14:36 [Psychephylax]: *sigh*
23:14:39 [Psychephylax]: Not good
23:14:47 [markd2]: but off the top of my head something like create or replace function cookie_color (some value)
23:15:08 [markd2]: begin if value = 'snood' return 'green; else if value = 'vinod' return 'puce' else return 'ochre'; end;
23:15:14 [markd2]: then in your select, do something like
23:15:36 [markd2]: select thingie, cookie_color(blargle) from spaghetti_os where fetish='lego';
23:16:04 [markd2]: so your second column should then become strings of the various colors based on the value blargle
23:18:25 [Psychephylax]: but that checks for =
23:18:29 [Psychephylax]: I want to do < and >
23:19:03 [markd2]: if value > 10 return 'green'; else if value < 5 return 'blue';
23:19:15 [Psychephylax]: pl cpp;
23:19:17 [Psychephylax]: ack
23:19:18 [Psychephylax]: ok cool
23:19:26 [markd2]: heh
23:20:28 [Psychephylax]: would it be if value > 10 and value < 5 return green
23:20:29 [Psychephylax]: ?
23:21:00 [markd2]: you can do whatever you want
23:21:04 [markd2]: it's just standard programming logic
23:21:09 [Psychephylax]: ok
23:22:04 [Psychephylax]: are ' <- required?
23:22:08 [Psychephylax]: or is that jsut for strings
23:22:11 [markd2]: just strings
23:27:18 [Psychephylax]: Does rollback also go back if you try to create a function?
23:27:28 [markd2]: nope
23:27:34 [Psychephylax]: hmm
23:27:45 [markd2]: any non insert/update/delete will do an implicit commit
23:27:52 [Psychephylax]: oh
23:29:03 [Psychephylax]: create or replace function receive_pwr (rcv_pwr)
23:29:03 [Psychephylax]: begin
23:29:07 [Psychephylax]: end;arg
23:29:18 [markd2]: you'll need a type up there
23:29:25 [markd2]: speaking of choir, tnight is choir night. gotta run
23:29:33 [Psychephylax]: type up where?
23:29:41 [markd2]: (rcv_pwr integer) or something
23:29:45 [Psychephylax]: oh
23:29:54 [markd2]: markd2 has quit
23:31:20 [Psychephylax]: me too!
23:31:23 [Psychephylax]: * Psychephylax goes home
23:37:26 [hazmat]: hazmat has joined #openacs
23:44:12 [hazmat]: s/a/in a
23:57:12 [AaronSw]: * AaronSw disconnects
23:57:32 [AaronSw]: * AaronSw reconnects
23:57:47 [rbm]: * rbm lights AaronSw on fire
23:58:02 [rbm]: <-- pyromaniac today
23:58:07 [hazmat]: the fire spreads and the channel goes up in flames
23:58:17 [rbm]: * rbm lights hazmat on fire
23:58:51 [hazmat]: * hazmat screams AHH i'm melting, melting...
23:59:41 [AaronSw]: Aah!
23:59:51 [vinod]: * vinod saves the day by pouring Java(TM) on everyone