IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

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01:16:35 [talli]
hey guys
01:25:45 [davb]
just can't stay away huh?
01:30:10 [talli]
nope - i'm a loser
01:30:20 [talli]
although i'm walking away from my computer now...
01:30:24 [talli]
i am leaving...
01:30:26 [talli]
see ya...
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01:32:50 [davb]
bye
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05:54:03 [dent]
[GlobalNotice] T-30 seconds to services implosion
05:59:58 [ChanServ]
ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/
05:59:58 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
07:55:17 [dent]
all openprojects staff, please message me for an invite to #willyoutakethisdance... perpare for liftoff!
08:46:57 [dent]
[GlobalNotice] This is just a warning that in a few minutes we will start to convert the network to dancer-ircd.
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09:09:30 [forward.openprojects.net]
topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/
09:09:30 [forward.openprojects.net]
Users on #openacs: loggy andrew docwolf rbm shagster chump GEM AaronSw
09:09:30 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
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Users on #openacs: loggy AaronSw chump
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month or so. If we have forgotten something, please inform us
09:16:17 [GlobalNotice]
soon (due to database drift) especially if important.
09:16:17 [GlobalNotice]
09:16:17 [GlobalNotice]
For conversion matters please use #Conversion.
09:16:17 [GlobalNotice]
09:16:17 [GlobalNotice]
We hope you will have a great stay with us!
09:16:17 [GlobalNotice]
(Open Projects Net Team)
09:16:17 [ChanServ]
[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
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09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
Welcome to the new Open Projects network. We hope you enjoy
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
the new quality of service that should be provided. If you
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
have any questions / comments / concerns, please email
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
support@openprojects.net or drop by #OpenProjects.
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
Please note that a few items in the services database have not
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
been converted into the new database. This includes:
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
- channel access lists (different complex trust metrics)
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
- memos sent to channels (time reasons)
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
- items which have no equivalent in the new database
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
- things which we have forgotten ;)
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
If there is any information which has not been converted,
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
it will be available on a yet unnamed server for the next
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
month or so. If we have forgotten something, please inform us
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
soon (due to database drift) especially if important.
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
For conversion matters please use #Conversion.
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
We hope you will have a great stay with us!
09:25:18 [GlobalNotice]
(Open Projects Net Team)
09:25:18 [ChanServ]
[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
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Users on #openacs: loggy AaronSw
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Users on #openacs: loggy graszew chump
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[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
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11:28:54 [robster]
[UrgentNotice]
11:33:43 [robster]
:[UrgentNotice] Sorry. Please can you report servers not listening on usual ports ie 6665-7000 to me immediately.
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11:45:11 [robster]
:[GlobalSpam] "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem." But if you do have problems please come to #conversion where your problems will be solved. Thankyou for bearing with us during these difficult times :)
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Users on #openacs: loggy graszew
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13:27:03 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. We're slowly struggling into the new code. If you're having problems, please message me a short detail message describing the problem. That should get us going for now. Thanks.
13:31:20 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. I've gotten surprisingly few messages so far. As other people have mentioned previously, we are aware there are problems. Keep letting us know your needs, we'll respond as quickly as we can. Thanks.
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Users on #openacs: loggy AaronSw chump
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[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
13:38:48 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Apologies for the global notice. You'll probably see a few more. Be aware that I may not have replied to several messages, but I'm logging and intend to hit each one in turn. Thanks for your patience during the cutover.
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Users on #openacs: loggy_1 @AaronSw
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13:50:11 [GlobalNotice]
Welcome to the new Open Projects network. We hope you enjoy
13:50:11 [GlobalNotice]
the new quality of service that should be provided. If you
13:50:11 [GlobalNotice]
have any questions / comments / concerns, please email
13:50:11 [GlobalNotice]
support@openprojects.net or drop by #OpenProjects.
13:50:11 [ChanServ]
[#openacs] This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
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13:50:35 [talli]
whoa. all alone. no one here to love but me.
13:54:47 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. In a few moments we will be reverting to the old servers and stabilize there while we analyze the various issues produced by our conversion attempt. So expect the usual (relatively) stable environment in a few minutes. Please bear with us and thanks again for your patience.
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13:56:59 [davb]
Good morning.
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Users on #openacs: loggy AaronSw davb talli
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This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
14:06:36 [davb]
brb
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14:07:29 [davb]
nevermind.
14:07:46 [talli]
go loggy!
14:13:07 [AaronSw]
AaronSw is now known as Aaron
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Aaron is now known as Aaron2
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* Aaron2 disconnects
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* Aaron2 reconnects
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Aaron2 is now known as AaronSw
14:19:46 [talli]
who is this AaronSW guy and why is he always here?
14:20:00 [davb]
You don't know AaronSw?
14:20:08 [AaronSw]
I'm a secret spy from Zope.
14:20:10 [talli]
hey aaron, isn't it time for school?
14:20:27 [AaronSw]
Ooh, that gets you a smack.
14:20:29 [talli]
aren't you late for the bus?
14:20:30 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw slaps talli around a bit with a large trout
14:20:39 [AaronSw]
train
14:20:51 [talli]
whatever. get your ass to class, boy!
14:21:25 [AaronSw]
You east-coasters... I've got a whole 'nother hour still.
14:21:34 [talli]
oh... right
14:21:36 [talli]
good point
14:21:54 [AaronSw]
Heh.
14:21:56 [AaronSw]
BTW, I'll be in Washington D.C. next week, in case anybody is around there.
14:21:58 [talli]
well, don't you have any homework to do in this time?
14:22:14 [talli]
what for? meeting with some alQaeda operative?
14:22:50 [davb]
http://dabbler.org/stories/storyReader$88
14:22:52 [chump]
A: http://dabbler.org/stories/storyReader$88 from davb
14:22:59 [AaronSw]
Homework? Why bother
14:23:03 [davb]
A:| .NET Signals an Industry Shift
14:23:05 [chump]
titled item A
14:23:05 [AaronSw]
DC: P2PCon2
14:23:06 [chump]
Label DC not found.
14:23:26 [davb]
AaronSw: do you go to all those things?
14:23:35 [AaronSw]
all what things?
14:24:28 [davb]
You seems like you are visiting quite a few conferences. Well more than me anyway :)
14:25:24 [AaronSw]
Really? I can only think of like 2.
14:25:43 [davb]
OK, I jsut have no life...:) sorry.
14:25:44 [talli]
what about parent-teacher-student conferences?
14:25:54 [talli]
been to many of those lately, aaronsw?
14:26:03 [AaronSw]
Not for years.
14:26:09 [AaronSw]
How about you?
14:26:09 [talli]
truant!
14:26:19 [AaronSw]
double truant!
14:29:06 [davb]
A:[OS Independence|http://dabbler.org/stories/storyReader$22]
14:29:07 [chump]
commented item A
14:29:39 [davb]
A:[Open Pragmatism|http://dabbler.org/stories/storyReader$23]
14:29:39 [chump]
commented item A
14:30:22 [talli]
i hear that C# is an awesome language
14:30:29 [talli]
much better than java, which isn't saying a whole lot
14:30:40 [talli]
but C# apaprently is supposed to hold a lot of promise
14:30:43 [davb]
Interesting.
14:31:13 [davb]
But will it run on non-MS systems?
14:31:17 [talli]
i've heard that from many people, even within the open source community (including luke and lars)
14:31:51 [talli]
i believe so. there were always rumors that the beta versions of some of the .NET IDEs had Linux in their platform choices
14:32:05 [talli]
also, Mono and dotGNU are trying to build open source CLRs
14:32:22 [davb]
Right. Did they say what it was good for?
14:32:41 [davb]
Is it a replacement for C/C++ in other words?
14:34:23 [chump]
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14:34:40 [davb]
Looks like I still have a memory leak on that server...
14:35:34 [talli]
it is more of a replacement of java, which i guess is a replacement of C/C++
14:35:53 [chump]
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14:35:55 [talli]
then again, C/C++ still have their considerable place. witness all the work we still do in C to extend AOLserver,
14:36:10 [talli]
which is still the best fucking web software anyone has written
14:36:12 [talli]
IMHO
14:36:22 [davb]
For some things, yes. But for most applications, a nice scripting language is better. FOr low-level stuff, C is more efficient.
14:36:38 [talli]
on the web, i agree
14:36:59 [talli]
but all the heavy duty stuff on the server side in aolserver is in C, right?
14:37:10 [davb]
Right.
14:37:46 [davb]
C is for the hard stuff. Everything else should be in a high-level language. Most applications can be programmed this way.
14:38:05 [talli]
right, i agree
14:38:28 [davb]
I am going to work on the new keyword stuff today.
14:38:36 [talli]
killer!
14:38:46 [davb]
What do you think about fixing bboard to use the CR keywords?
14:38:49 [talli]
that stuff will be awesome. it will be a great addition to the toolkit
14:38:53 [talli]
i think that would be amazing
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14:41:15 [ola]
Hi all!
14:41:43 [davb]
Hi ola.
14:42:13 [talli]
hey ola
14:44:16 [davb]
brb-breakfast
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15:22:10 [davb]
Hi markd2
15:22:27 [markd2]
greetings
15:22:28 [markd2]
* markd2 is back home, and slogging through the work mailbox
15:29:32 [talli]
yo markd
15:31:47 [markd2]
hiya
15:37:01 [davb]
Anyone know how I would create a package with no SQL files?
15:39:11 [davb]
aha, nevermind.
15:39:40 [Psychephylax]
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15:41:51 [Psychephylax]
hi people
15:41:54 [davb]
Howdy
15:41:58 [Psychephylax]
hey mark
15:42:15 [markd2]
hey Sporkephylax
15:43:03 [Psychephylax]
I need Oracle help =)
15:47:57 [markd2]
sure
15:47:58 [markd2]
whazzup?
15:48:40 [Psychephylax]
I can't insert stuff into oracle
15:48:40 [markd2]
what happens?
15:48:40 [Psychephylax]
I get a number to string error or sumfing
15:52:40 [Psychephylax]
hold on..I need to get my butt in gear here
15:52:50 [Psychephylax]
multitasking and daylight savings times don't mix
15:53:33 [davb]
Should I create seperate UI for site-administrators and users to assign keywords to items?
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15:58:07 [Psychephylax]
Initialization error: X server not responding
15:58:11 [Psychephylax]
Why is that not working!!!
15:58:55 [markd2]
Oracle doesn't use an X server for insert operations...
15:59:23 [Psychephylax]
:D
16:00:08 [Psychephylax]
ora8.c:3568:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-06502: PL/SQL: numeric or value error: character to number conversion error
16:00:08 [Psychephylax]
ORA-06512: at line 1
16:02:14 [davb]
try the query in SQL*PLUS
16:02:30 [Psychephylax]
it's not a query it's an insert
16:02:42 [davb]
ok. try the insert...
16:03:38 [Psychephylax]
how do I run a stored function ?
16:05:21 [davb]
Try select stored.functionname(params); ...
16:05:55 [markd2]
or begin(CR) stored.functionname(args); end; /
16:06:03 [davb]
spiffy!
16:06:26 [Psychephylax]
CR?
16:06:58 [davb]
<-ENTER
16:07:01 [Psychephylax]
oh
16:07:05 [davb]
:)
16:07:51 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax tries
16:09:34 [Psychephylax]
if I have defaults for a few of them then I don't need to specify them?
16:10:14 [markd2]
right
16:10:21 [Psychephylax]
aha
16:10:22 [Psychephylax]
Well, wait
16:10:30 [Psychephylax]
say I have something like this
16:10:55 [Psychephylax]
pl/sql proc that takes (sysname, query, sysuptime, syscontact)
16:11:02 [Psychephylax]
where query is sysdate
16:11:17 [Psychephylax]
how will it know to insert that when I have this:
16:11:47 [Psychephylax]
('OracleBox','10 days','me@oraclebox.com');
16:11:59 [Psychephylax]
wouldn't it try to insert 10 days as the time?
16:12:09 [Psychephylax]
as sysdate rather
16:16:27 [Psychephylax]
anyone?
16:16:55 [talli]
talli has quit
16:17:23 [davb]
What are you trying to accomplish?
16:19:07 [Psychephylax]
i think the problem arrived when I omitted a value
16:19:20 [Psychephylax]
causing oracle think it's inserting something else
16:19:32 [Psychephylax]
everything to shifted by 1 or however many omissions i made
16:19:39 [Psychephylax]
makes sense to me...but I'm no oracle genius
16:19:47 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax waves a cookie around
16:20:09 [markd2]
yeah
16:20:54 [Psychephylax]
so how would I signify I want to use a default in the space?
16:20:57 [Psychephylax]
just go , ,?
16:21:54 [markd2]
don't think you can do that
16:22:05 [Psychephylax]
ok
16:22:06 [markd2]
it'll fill in defaults after it uses the existing arguments
16:22:09 [markd2]
you can name them
16:22:20 [Psychephylax]
explain
16:22:26 [markd2]
e.g. somefunction (arg1 => 'value', arg17 => 'value2', give_mark => 'more cookies');
16:22:33 [markd2]
it'll pass those values for those arguments
16:22:37 [markd2]
and then everything else will take its default value
16:22:38 [Psychephylax]
right
16:22:49 [Psychephylax]
ok this is what I have:
16:23:01 [Psychephylax]
set incident_id [db_exec_plsql insert_info "begin :1 := snmp_incident.new(mac_address => :modem_mac,comments => :comments,
16:23:27 [Psychephylax]
before mac_address I have a incident_id which is calculated from acs_objects
16:23:36 [Psychephylax]
and between modem_mac and comments there's a sysdate
16:28:12 [markd2]
if you don't have any unlabeled paramters, it should then be doing the right thing with the default valus
16:28:30 [Psychephylax]
very odd
16:29:38 [markd2]
then add one
16:29:40 [markd2]
then it becomes very even
16:29:56 [Psychephylax]
i will just fill in the values that don't have defaults
16:31:19 [Psychephylax]
aha
16:32:32 [Psychephylax]
PLS-00306: wrong number or types of arguments in call to 'NEW'
16:33:56 [markd2]
double-check your types
16:34:02 [markd2]
that your'e not passing a character string where a number is expected
16:34:41 [Psychephylax]
I checked
16:34:51 [Psychephylax]
I made it so everything that has a default value is using it
16:34:56 [Psychephylax]
ANd it seems to work
16:34:58 [Psychephylax]
but :
16:35:06 [Psychephylax]
ora8.c:3568:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-02291: integrity constraint (MYOPENACS.ACS_OBJECTS_OBJECT_TYPE_FK) violated - parent key not found
16:35:51 [markd2]
that means you're trying to insert a value into a 'references' column, and ther's not a correspnding value in the referenced table
16:36:08 [markd2]
judging from the name of the constraint (ACS_BJECTS_OBJECT_TYPE_FK), you probably don't have a correspnding object type
16:36:16 [Psychephylax]
hmm?
16:37:50 [davb]
You are trying to create an object of type 'foo' when there is no entry in acs_object_types for that type.
16:39:22 [Psychephylax]
i just did select object_name from user_objects;
16:39:41 [Psychephylax]
and I have snmp_incident x2 and snmp_incidents
16:40:27 [blueseed]
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16:40:41 [davb]
I don;t even have a user_objects table.
16:41:28 [markd2]
acs_objects
16:41:37 [markd2]
user_objects is part of the oracle data dictionary
16:42:12 [davb]
Thats the objects name. Not its type. You need to create a type if you are using a custom type instead of cr_item.
16:42:17 [davb]
or whatever/
16:42:28 [Psychephylax]
ummm
16:42:31 [Psychephylax]
i'm confused
16:42:41 [Psychephylax]
what tables are the ones I am going to be playing with
16:42:56 [davb]
Do you have in your SQL file acs_object.create_type (my type)
16:43:05 [Psychephylax]
let me check
16:43:33 [Psychephylax]
acs_object_type.create_type (
16:43:33 [Psychephylax]
supertype => 'acs_object',
16:43:33 [Psychephylax]
object_type => 'snmp_incident',
16:43:33 [Psychephylax]
pretty_name => 'SNMP Incident',
16:43:33 [Psychephylax]
pretty_plural => 'SNMP Incidents',
16:43:33 [Psychephylax]
table_name => 'snmp_incidents',
16:43:35 [Psychephylax]
id_column => 'incident_id'
16:43:37 [Psychephylax]
);
16:43:48 [davb]
Ok. good.
16:44:04 [davb]
make sure its there select object_type from acs_object_types;
16:44:05 [Psychephylax]
SQL> select * from acs_objects where object_type = 'snmp_incident';
16:44:05 [Psychephylax]
no rows selected
16:44:16 [davb]
ok.
16:44:25 [Psychephylax]
am I missing something?>
16:44:42 [davb]
The log of when you ran the create script?
16:44:46 [davb]
:)
16:44:48 [Psychephylax]
ummm
16:44:54 [Psychephylax]
lemme check
16:45:01 [davb]
Try creating it now maybe...
16:45:19 [Psychephylax]
nope
16:45:43 [Psychephylax]
umm
16:45:46 [Psychephylax]
spool something
16:49:11 [Psychephylax]
that did nothing
16:49:24 [davb]
no errors?
16:49:53 [Psychephylax]
no
16:51:16 [Psychephylax]
you want the log? :)
16:53:28 [davb]
Not very verbose is it.
16:53:35 [Psychephylax]
no
16:54:00 [davb]
What if you try just that acs_object.create_type in SQL*PLUS?
16:55:28 [markd2]
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16:56:32 [Psychephylax]
it works
16:56:35 [Psychephylax]
it does create my stuff
16:56:37 [Psychephylax]
or so it seems
16:57:42 [davb]
ok. What is the exact acs_object.new call you are making?
16:58:33 [Psychephylax]
it's very long :)
16:58:38 [Psychephylax]
I'm not pasting it
16:59:32 [davb]
ok. Check to make sure that you are setting object_type in there to the object type you have created. and make sure that is what is really getting passed to oracle.
17:00:01 [Psychephylax]
aha
17:00:03 [Psychephylax]
wait
17:00:07 [Psychephylax]
I think I found a problem
17:00:29 [davb]
heh, as I suspected. You should not work before lunchtime on Mondays. :)
17:02:01 [Psychephylax]
heh
17:02:09 [Psychephylax]
that eliminates 10% of my workweek
17:03:05 [davb]
Ok, maybe not...
17:06:51 [Psychephylax]
i see nothing
17:07:15 [davb]
darn.
17:09:33 [graszew]
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17:09:39 [Psychephylax]
how do I do a plain sql block
17:09:47 [Psychephylax]
I'm going to try manually inserting into the thing
17:10:17 [markd2]
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17:10:20 [markd2]
geeze
17:10:23 [davb]
just like this
17:10:23 [Psychephylax]
lol
17:10:26 [markd2]
varley netsplit off, and never rejoined
17:10:31 [davb]
insert into blah
17:10:41 [davb]
object id,
17:10:42 [davb]
etc,
17:10:42 [Psychephylax]
don't I need do do ns_?
17:10:45 [davb]
etc
17:10:51 [davb]
oh inside AOLserver.
17:10:52 [davb]
yes/
17:10:54 [davb]
db_dml
17:11:03 [davb]
I think.
17:15:55 [Psychephylax]
umm
17:16:16 [Psychephylax]
you are correct
17:16:21 [Psychephylax]
but when I use it I get an error
17:16:33 [Psychephylax]
nm
17:17:36 [Psychephylax]
ora8.c:3930:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-01400: cannot insert NULL into ("MYOPENACS"."SNMP_INCIDENTS"."INCIDENT_ID")
17:17:47 [davb]
Oh right. do
17:17:52 [markd2]
so stop inserting null for incident_id :-)
17:18:00 [davb]
nextval(acs_object_id_seq)
17:18:01 [Psychephylax]
it gets calculated by openacs object!
17:18:07 [Psychephylax]
oh wait...it used to
17:18:27 [davb]
This is not MS Access.
17:18:33 [davb]
:)
17:18:36 [markd2]
thank ghod
17:19:25 [Psychephylax]
insert into snmp_incidents(incident_id, mac_address, problem_id) values (nextval(acs_object_id_seq),'00:E0:6F:01:54:B2', \
17:19:32 [Psychephylax]
it didn't like my nextval
17:19:47 [davb]
I am wrong
17:19:52 [davb]
nextval.sequencename
17:19:55 [davb]
duh
17:20:00 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax gives Mark Dave's cookie
17:20:09 [davb]
argh! not again!
17:20:17 [davb]
* davb goes to study his oracle again...
17:20:44 [markd2]
sequencename.nextval
17:20:57 [davb]
Ok. at least I was close the second time.
17:21:03 [Psychephylax]
column not allowed here
17:21:08 [Psychephylax]
lol
17:21:09 [Psychephylax]
ok
17:21:26 [Psychephylax]
third time is the cahrm
17:21:38 [davb]
Well first time with the correct information :)
17:23:21 [Psychephylax]
heh
17:24:02 [Psychephylax]
Will this get expanded into the proper values:
17:24:04 [Psychephylax]
'$modem_ip', '$cmts_ip', '$cmts_dns'
17:25:27 [davb]
it should.
17:26:35 [graszew]
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17:28:22 [davb]
ola: were you around yesterday? Static-pages is serachable, at least in postgresql.
17:35:35 [hazmat]
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17:35:46 [hazmat]
hello
17:35:54 [davb]
hi hazmat
17:36:09 [hazmat]
hi davb
17:36:54 [hazmat]
i spent my last night tracking down dependencies for the search stuff, we got get a unified distro with all this stuff included :)
17:37:10 [davb]
That is a good idea.
17:37:29 [davb]
My main problem is debian puts everything in a different spot.
17:37:50 [hazmat]
hmm.. so you're installing via apt, does apt include all the nesc headers?
17:38:07 [davb]
Yes. What it won;t do is compile intarray.
17:38:28 [davb]
it just installs the source for intarray in /usr/lib/postgresql/lib/contrib
17:40:49 [hazmat]
i compiled it all from source (minus tcl), it wasn't so bad, except for getting hold of everything.
17:40:49 [davb]
which is useless because it won't compile without the postgresql source. Which I could not find as a package.
17:40:49 [davb]
It is much easier to just compile postgresql.
17:40:49 [hazmat]
so to do a quick recap openacs4 requires like 10 different packages, ns_xml (depends on libxml), ns_sha1, ns_cache, aolserver, postgresql, intarry, openfts, nstcl, libpgtcl. i'm probably missing something :)
17:40:49 [hazmat]
oh yeah and the pg-driver
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Users on #openacs: loggy k2pts hazmat markd2 blueseed til Psychephylax chump ola AaronSw davb
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This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
17:44:18 [docwolf]
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17:44:23 [k2pts]
hi docwolf
17:44:24 [davb]
Hi docwolf
17:44:30 [docwolf]
hi, everybody!
17:44:41 [davb]
Ok. I need some advice here on building a new keywords admin/user package.
17:44:58 [davb]
Do I need to create permissions like keyword_create etc...?
17:45:18 [k2pts]
davb: i'm confused. what are you trying to do?
17:45:35 [davb]
So that an item, say a bboard posting or something can be set to allow visitors to assign categories to it.
17:45:42 [davb]
or just the original author.
17:46:16 [davb]
k2pts: OK. I am building a general package to offer a UI to manage keywords. To add keywords to the list of keywords and to assign them to items in the CR.
17:46:31 [k2pts]
i thought that keywords were already implemented in the CR
17:46:36 [k2pts]
ok
17:46:45 [k2pts]
ok: ui on top of the CR API
17:46:47 [k2pts]
right?
17:46:51 [davb]
That is correct.
17:47:08 [davb]
CMS has one, but this would be general so any package could take advantage of it. Like general-comments.
17:47:15 [hazmat]
hello
17:47:28 [k2pts]
hi hazmat.
17:47:34 [k2pts]
hazmat: wf is nearly done
17:47:51 [hazmat]
i think i installed a bunch of extra stuff for, openfts oh well. wf is nearly done. awesome! are you going to include graphviz?
17:48:14 [k2pts]
you mean in the package?
17:48:19 [hazmat]
yes
17:48:33 [hazmat]
i have no idea what the license is...
17:48:39 [k2pts]
probably not, I am not sure that the license is combatible
17:49:26 [hazmat]
bummer, it def. add some visual appeal. is anyone familiar with request processor internals?
17:49:42 [davb]
Ok, here is my other question. My package will have pages like keyword-add keyword-remove etc.
17:50:29 [davb]
I want to allow other packages to be able to link to those pages with the proper variables to use them. Should I make a seperate proc for each like keyword_add_link, keyword_remove_link?
17:50:55 [k2pts]
davb: first give some thought to the API. portlets would be a better idea
17:51:14 [k2pts]
hazmat: go ahead. i'll see what i can do
17:51:18 [davb]
Hmmm. Ok. I will have to look into that.
17:51:50 [k2pts]
davb: i meant the dotlrn stuff, but if you give some thought to the API it will be easier in the long run
17:52:34 [davb]
Aha. Right.
17:53:36 [k2pts]
the general idea is to think of you functions as datasources (providing info for the portlet)
17:54:09 [k2pts]
and think of the portlet like a widget that you will call to be rendered within the other package
17:54:31 [hazmat]
i've been working on hooking up python to a running openacs installation, after having it working well with standalone aolserver, i think the problem is the request processor is messing up the handling, so i'm trying to figure out the differences between the various styles of procs/filters compared to a map directive in an aolserver config file, my understanding of the rp, was that it was a single filter/proc that allowed regist
17:55:51 [k2pts]
ok let me see
17:57:01 [k2pts]
ok what is the problem exactly: a) not parsing (python) the pages correctly b) not finding them at all
17:57:27 [Psychephylax]
doh!
17:58:19 [k2pts]
hazmat?
17:59:36 [adler]
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17:59:49 [hazmat]
i'm investigating, more info in a sec.
17:59:57 [adler]
greetings
18:00:28 [k2pts]
IIRC, the RP registers some filters at startup and then uses those filters to map them into the right parser.
18:00:38 [k2pts]
s/parser/handler
18:00:48 [k2pts]
you will need to do something like this: rp_register_extension_handler $type $handler
18:01:05 [k2pts]
this is done in: acs-tcl/tcl/request-processor-init.tcl
18:01:37 [k2pts]
ack
18:03:08 [k2pts]
hi adler
18:03:19 [davb]
bbl - lunch
18:03:29 [k2pts]
davb: enjoy
18:03:41 [adler]
mmmm... nourishment
18:03:47 [adler]
howdy k2
18:04:06 [k2pts]
hey
18:05:00 [adler]
ever work with acs-mail/messaging?
18:05:36 [k2pts]
nope
18:06:28 [adler]
I think that's vinod's bag.
18:06:37 [k2pts]
yes me too
18:06:41 [k2pts]
and jong
18:06:52 [k2pts]
JonG
18:07:08 [adler]
I'd love it if oacs could receive mail (from auction sites, pay pal, etc)
18:07:23 [adler]
but I think queue_incoming remains unimplemented.
18:07:48 [k2pts]
henry did some work on that (email-handler)
18:07:56 [k2pts]
but I've never tried
18:08:23 [k2pts]
I think it needs porting/fixing to work in oacs4 but i am not sure
18:08:25 [adler]
is it in the alpha tarball?
18:08:31 [k2pts]
let me check
18:08:54 [k2pts]
i don't know if it's in the alpha tarball but you can get it from cvs
18:09:39 [k2pts]
it seems ported but IIRC there were some extra stuff that needed some work
18:09:57 [k2pts]
probably queue-message.pl and queue-message.sh
18:10:20 [adler]
i think i stumbled across those at one point
18:10:45 [k2pts]
email-handler big picture:
18:10:46 [k2pts]
You can build a gateway for handling incoming email messages for your application using a Perl script called queue-message.pl. That Perl script will accept an
18:10:46 [k2pts]
incoming email message from the mailer and insert its contents into a queue table in the database. A procedure can be scheduled to sweep the queue at some interval to
18:10:46 [k2pts]
process the messages.
18:12:17 [adler]
supposed to use procmail to trigger the perl script?
18:16:01 [davb]
k2pts: is there anything I can read that will help me design the API to plan for future portlets?
18:17:58 [k2pts]
I guess not. But, it would be nice to know what the acs-sc package does. the new portals package is based on that. Kapil wrote an excellent guide to acs-sc issues
18:18:39 [k2pts]
you can find it in: acs-service-contract/www/doc/index.html
18:18:41 [davb]
Ok.
18:20:21 [hazmat]
davb, if you have any questions, let us know and i'll add them to the faq section of the doc..
18:20:38 [davb]
sure.
18:21:14 [davb]
hazmat: Can you stick some <html> tags around that so its not all monospaced? :)
18:22:14 [davb]
k2pts: so should all packages that provide services like this use acs-sc? I was modeling this more after general-comments. which works, but I can't tell you how well designed it is.
18:22:16 [k2pts]
my fault
18:22:37 [k2pts]
well, i like the acs-sc way more :)
18:22:41 [hazmat]
davb, sure the format, is structured text, i was going to convert it to docbook and html, but i ended up just giving it raw to k2pts, i'll convert it over now.
18:23:00 [davb]
No problem really :)
18:24:50 [adler]
k2pts: did you have URL for henry's work?
18:25:18 [k2pts]
it's in the cvs
18:25:21 [davb]
I think I will have to post in the bboard to solicit ideas on how this package will be used before I go casting an API in stone.
18:25:33 [adler]
like you said :)
18:25:35 [k2pts]
yes, that's a good idea
18:27:04 [k2pts]
well, well, need to go off guys, later.
18:27:12 [davb]
bye.
18:27:21 [k2pts]
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Users on #openacs: loggy rbm Psychephylax hazmat shagster blueseed AaronSw
22:53:03 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
23:01:47 [toddfx]
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23:07:10 [rbm]
hi todd
23:07:14 [rbm]
welcome to #openacs
23:07:23 [toddfx]
hello
23:09:05 [rbm]
how's the project coming?
23:24:29 [talli]
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23:24:37 [talli]
hey guys
23:24:47 [rbm]
Make way! It's talli on the channel!
23:24:56 [talli]
all hail talli!
23:25:10 [talli]
wait, can i say that for myself?
23:25:22 [rbm]
* rbm twacks talli for self indulgence
23:25:29 [talli]
ouch
23:25:37 [talli]
i've gotten smacked around today on this channel
23:25:49 [rbm]
* rbm twacks talli again, for good measure
23:26:01 [talli]
aaronsw hit my with a trout this morning for suggesting he get his ass to school. damn truant.
23:26:09 [rbm]
heheh
23:26:18 [AaronSw]
And I'll do it again too!
23:26:19 [talli]
how's it going rbm?
23:26:22 [rbm]
I can see Aaron doing that with that kind of suggestion :)
23:26:43 [rbm]
talli: Trying to solve something in our legacy AOLserver app at work, so I can get out of here
23:26:56 [talli]
fun!
23:27:17 [hazmat]
hi guys
23:27:25 [rbm]
hi haz
23:27:29 [talli]
hey hazmat
23:28:22 [hazmat]
hey, i hooked up python to the acs-templating system :)
23:28:38 [rbm]
hazmat: COOL!
23:28:45 [rbm]
* rbm hugs python
23:28:46 [talli]
whoa
23:28:50 [talli]
dope
23:29:04 [talli]
rbm: you prefer python to tcl?
23:29:15 [rbm]
I like Tcl too.
23:29:26 [rbm]
But Python seems to have a much better design than Tcl.
23:29:34 [talli]
true enough
23:29:44 [hazmat]
i spent *way* too much time today doing it, but i'm psyched... i like tcl sorta of but python allows be to do much larger programming projects in all sorts of settings.
23:29:49 [rbm]
It looks like executable pseudocode
23:30:35 [rbm]
I'm slowly digging my way through Programming
23:30:37 [talli]
so hazmat, you can have full acs-templating functionality with python code?
23:30:43 [rbm]
I'm slowly digging my way through Programming Python, 2nd Ed.
23:31:04 [hazmat]
yup... and lisp fans can make even use it in a functional style
23:31:23 [talli]
whoa
23:31:28 [talli]
that's dope
23:32:17 [rbm]
* rbm calls the DEA to go after talli
23:32:32 [talli]
* talli calls the INS to go after rbm
23:32:43 [rbm]
talli: I'm already in the concentration camp.
23:32:50 [talli]
bummer
23:32:57 [talli]
they got you fenced in?
23:33:15 [hazmat]
talli: yes its fully functionality, master templates, variable insertion etc. i need to refactor it a little, cause right now i have to have a tcl page do the nesc. upvars, but righting a wrapper function around the templating call will fix that.
23:33:29 [rbm]
I'm still waiting for something they should have completed in 2 weeks. It's been 10 weeks.
23:33:40 [talli]
christ.
23:33:47 [talli]
hazmat: that's totally awesome
23:35:12 [talli]
so hazmat, i have a question...
23:35:46 [talli]
given that object oriented code can have a serious problem when used in the context of a relational db
23:36:05 [talli]
but given the fact that OOP can be real nice when doing a lot of coding...
23:36:40 [talli]
does python provide a way of bridging this gap as it is an OOP scripting language?
23:40:15 [hazmat]
talli: i'm not sure why oopl nesc. have problems with relational systems... i think thats a more interesting concern considering the natural mismatch of rich object data vs. a pure relational system and bridging them with some sort of relational mapping system. how does python handle it? in terms of pure relational work...
23:40:59 [talli]
the relational mapping issue is the problem i am talking about. it's a real bitch to get right. i would prefer avoiding it all together
23:41:28 [hazmat]
you can put in as little abstraction as you want conn = dbadaptor(connection_string) ; cursor = conn.cursor() ; cursor.execute("select now from dual"); return cursor.fetchmany()
23:42:29 [hazmat]
i actually wrote a zope product that sucks up all the openacs query files and allows you to use them from zope via engine.execute('query_name')... iotw there is a lot of freedom in terms of possible answers.
23:43:14 [talli]
cool
23:44:02 [rbm]
I read about DODS in enhydra (Java). It looked... slow. DODS had to write all your queries for you dinamically
23:44:11 [hazmat]
talli: (just a statement of facts not bragging) the zope corporation guys where trying to have me do work on fitting an or mapping system underneath the zodb, so you could transparently access objects that were stored relationally. i don't really think that this way is terribly efficient, but its something i'm interested in exploring a little more.
23:45:03 [hazmat]
the key concept is a model which maps the class structure to the relational structure, i think the openacs system lends itself *very* well to an or mapping system mainly because of the amount of object meta info lying around
23:45:58 [hazmat]
i wrote up a half-finished paper on zope relational integration a little while ago, its a bit dated, at http://www.zope.org/Members/k_vertigo/Design/smartobjects
23:46:11 [talli]
i'm not entirely qualified to argue one way or the other here, but the mapping problem has always seemed like one of unneeded complexity without any clear benefit
23:46:37 [talli]
yes, you get OOP, but AOLservers approach seems like a better kind of code reuse
23:46:40 [hazmat]
talli: i think a certain amount of metadata is very helpful
23:47:16 [talli]
but how is metadata related to the object-relational mapping problem?
23:47:18 [hazmat]
talli: at least for formulating common queries, the key to an or mapping system, is that it shouldn't get in your way when you need to drill past to make a query to the db.
23:48:11 [talli]
i think that my question is usually related directly to OACS
23:48:38 [talli]
IMHO, aolserver plus an RDBMS makes the or mapping problem disappear
23:48:42 [hazmat]
i think you're question is focusing on python vs. java and or techniques at the acs datamodel
23:49:19 [talli]
so i guess what i'm asking is what do you gain by using an OOP language over aolserver?
23:49:32 [talli]
i'm not being confrontational, just wondering
23:50:21 [rbm]
You can use Tcl with one of its OO extensions in AOLserver BTW
23:50:54 [hazmat]
rbm: i was wondering about that , i looked around but i couldn't figure out which ones were compatible? which ones work?
23:51:18 [rbm]
hazmat: iTcl should work. XOTcl should work too.
23:51:37 [rbm]
I haven't tested either, but a friend of mine has tested iTcl I think
23:52:39 [talli]
rbm: what are TclObjects? and what's the big deal about them being integrated into AOlserver4?
23:53:15 [talli]
hey guys! i just got an email from monpost6969 telling me about an amazing breakthrough in weightloss!!!!
23:53:17 [hazmat]
talli: you'll also get access to all the resources and libraries that the language has to offer, i grant that aolserver is getting an impressive number of libraries and applications (and i hope to add to that list).
23:53:43 [hazmat]
but you can't do everything from aolserver...
23:53:54 [hazmat]
out of curosity talli, how long did etp take to build?
23:54:18 [hazmat]
thanks rbm, i'll look into it more when i got some spare cycles :)
23:55:13 [talli]
the basic functions or etp were probably built in a week or so
23:55:20 [rbm]
talli: In Tcl < 8, everything was a string. That was very inneficient. In Tcl 8 there are Tcl Objects, which makes things a lot faster.
23:55:23 [talli]
but that's because Luke, the God-like Machine, did it
23:55:51 [rbm]
AOLserver internally still uses the Tcl Strings
23:55:55 [rbm]
(method)
23:56:12 [talli]
but we've been talking about trying to see what etp would look like if it were written in python. just to prototype python in aolserver and openacs
23:56:35 [talli]
so what is a Tcl Object?
23:56:41 [talli]
just a thing?
23:56:44 [rbm]
I'm going to implement a graphical app accessing PostgreSQL pretty soon. I'm excited about it.
23:56:45 [talli]
string or otherwise?
23:56:49 [hazmat]
actually it uses ns_dstrings? are those tcl? i thought they were naviserver c stuff
23:57:12 [rbm]
talli: It's like a structure/class, but it's internal to Tcl.
23:57:19 [hazmat]
talli: i was using etp the other day, and wondering how long it took cause i was thinking how long it would take me in zope/python...
23:57:39 [rbm]
hazmat: They hook up to the Tcl strings I think. I don't know that much from the AOLserver internals.
23:58:04 [talli]
it didn't take long. the difference between apps in zope and apps in openacs is you don't need to datamodel stuff in zope, right?
23:58:15 [talli]
at least not in the same way or as anally
23:58:17 [hazmat]
aolserver actually has some really clean source, its refreshing to look at well written c.
23:58:39 [rbm]
hazmat: I know! I love it too.
23:59:30 [talli]
how much noise is generated on the aolserver mailing list? is it worth being on it?
23:59:32 [hazmat]
plus you get a whole lot more flexibility wrt to searching and all sorts of other stuff, like making it web services scriptable, and so much more.... sigh. i should stop before i get on this track
23:59:46 [hazmat]
talli: not much, its very worthwhile to be on, rob mayoff is a god