IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:09 [Spork]
hahahaha
00:03:21 [Spork]
* Spork takes notes on how to do "that"
00:04:12 [Spork]
first thing I'm doing on monday is knocking down the cubicle wall
00:04:19 [rbm]
:)
00:06:43 [Spork]
hmm
00:07:05 [Spork]
Must go fishing tomorrow and catch some fluke to fillet on my status report
00:08:55 [Spork]
hahahaha
00:08:58 [Spork]
Mission statement
00:15:33 [Spork]
hahahaha. they stole the printer
00:15:56 [Spork]
and kicked it's ass
00:16:03 [rbm]
Yeah.
00:16:10 [Spork]
that's great!
00:30:40 [davb]
davb has joined #OpenACS
00:30:51 [Spork]
hey dave
00:31:01 [davb]
hi
00:31:17 [Spork]
* Spork is watching Office Space
00:31:24 [davb]
cool!
00:31:34 [Spork]
I think on Monday I will steal a printer and smash it with a baseball bat
00:31:48 [davb]
Oh you have watched quite a bit.
00:31:57 [Spork]
Almost done
00:34:29 [Spork]
this movie is great
00:34:47 [Spork]
"Pound me in the ass prison"
00:34:48 [Spork]
rofl
00:43:52 [Spork]
dave, I got a question for you
00:44:03 [davb]
ok
00:44:15 [Spork]
in the movie, how much is left after they show that guy talking about mai tai and getting a pina colada?
00:44:24 [Spork]
Milton in the Resort
00:44:38 [davb]
not much...
00:44:47 [Spork]
what else do they show?
00:44:53 [Spork]
My movie ended there =)
00:45:00 [davb]
That might be it.
00:45:37 [Spork]
ok
00:45:38 [Spork]
hehe
00:45:47 [fly]
fly has joined #openacs
00:45:58 [davb]
hello fly
00:46:09 [fly]
hey davb
00:47:21 [fly]
fly has left #openacs
00:48:00 [davb]
Well, he talks alot.
00:48:54 [Spork]
Does anyone know what port rexec uses?
00:49:10 [Spork]
I think Roberto was talking about remote X apps
00:49:24 [davb]
Oh yeah. SSH tunneling?
00:49:31 [Spork]
yeah
00:49:43 [Spork]
hmmmm
00:50:25 [rbm]
I don't know about rexec tho
00:50:34 [rbm]
You shouldn't be running rexec. Ever.
00:50:39 [Spork]
why's that?
00:50:40 [Spork]
hold on
00:50:59 [rbm]
rexec was for the time when there were 5 nodes on the whole internet, and everybody knew each other.
00:51:13 [davb]
related to rlogin?
00:51:33 [rbm]
you should not use any "r" service, with the exception of rsync
00:51:50 [rbm]
ssh is a secure replacement for all r services.
00:51:58 [Spork]
ok well here's my scenario
00:52:04 [Spork]
Maybe you can help me figure it out
00:52:13 [Spork]
i have 4 computers on my internal network
00:52:29 [Spork]
My Win2K box and my freebsd box get used the most
00:52:44 [Spork]
Say I want to run some X apps from my linux box on my win2k box
00:52:49 [Spork]
How do I go about doing this
00:52:55 [Spork]
I have installed XWin32
00:53:19 [Spork]
But, I also have a router so it blocks replies unless I forward 6000 to one computer
00:53:28 [rbm]
You can run the X app on the Linux box to be _displayed_ on the win2k box
00:53:31 [Spork]
I would prefer to use triggers but I don't know what port it triggers on
00:53:35 [Spork]
right
00:53:39 [Spork]
that's what I meant
00:54:08 [rbm]
It's been a long time I've messed with XWin32. I just use SSH these days.
00:54:27 [Spork]
lol
00:54:34 [rbm]
s/SSH/VNC/
00:54:38 [Spork]
any of you listen to wallops?
00:55:39 [rbm]
Spork: Or, since you have XWin32 running, you can use TeraTerm Pro to forward the X port through the ssh tunnel
00:55:52 [rbm]
Spork: Any reason why you can't just use VNC?
00:56:17 [Spork]
It's too much of a pain to start the server because it doesn't keep my session
00:56:28 [rbm]
VNC does keep your session.
00:56:31 [Spork]
i don't really need a full blown desktop
00:56:45 [Spork]
yeah I know, but I mean between a local and remote
00:57:08 [rbm]
I don't understand what you're saying then.
00:57:13 [Spork]
:/
00:57:31 [rbm]
What's your SSH client on Windows?
00:57:40 [Spork]
SSH Secure Shell from www.ssh.com
00:58:00 [Spork]
yes, it allows for X tunneling through SSH
00:58:41 [rbm]
I hope you're using it on an educational environment. I think it's not free for commercial use.
00:58:52 [Spork]
yeah educational of course
00:59:17 [rbm]
So, you forward the X port on SSH, then what happens?
00:59:23 [Spork]
This is what I did
00:59:27 [Spork]
I have xwin running
00:59:34 [Spork]
My router messes things up though
00:59:52 [Spork]
brb
01:00:11 [rbm]
brb2
01:00:26 [Spork]
back
01:01:41 [davb]
Yeah! To play shoutcast streams I have to save the .pls file and then load it into XMMS.
01:01:56 [Spork]
is that good or bad?
01:03:25 [davb]
Well it works, but I can't do it automagically from the browser.
01:03:35 [Spork]
Could you do that with Freeamp?
01:03:44 [davb]
No.
01:03:56 [davb]
Freeamp crashes too much even playing CDs
01:04:07 [Spork]
heh
01:05:37 [Spork]
i like XMMS
01:06:17 [Spork]
I think all older winamp skins and maybe even new ones work with XMMS?
01:06:37 [davb]
Yeah I think so.
01:07:53 [davb]
Ok, howcome windows cd buring software sucks so bad?
01:08:04 [Spork]
you have to be more specific
01:08:11 [Spork]
which one are you talking about
01:08:12 [davb]
I am buring a CD at 8x, installing openacs datamodel, listening to XMMS
01:08:17 [davb]
etc...
01:08:20 [davb]
no problem.
01:08:33 [davb]
If the screensaver comes on in windows, the recording fails EVERY time.
01:08:48 [Spork]
odd
01:08:52 [davb]
I had that problem with Adaptec and WinOnCD. Don't know about Nero, I turned off the screensaver.
01:08:53 [Spork]
What software, what burner
01:09:03 [Spork]
What burner?
01:09:23 [davb]
I have a Yahama 4416 SCSI, now I have a 8424 IDE.
01:09:33 [Spork]
That's odd I have 2 burners and I have almost never had any problems (when everything works correctly)
01:09:39 [davb]
Cool.
01:10:09 [Spork]
my old mitsumi 4x burns without a problem when I multitask, I can surf the web and do a bunch of other things and never had a problem
01:10:16 [davb]
Cool.
01:10:23 [davb]
Must be me!
01:10:27 [Spork]
and the new plextor has Burn-proof so it doesn't crap out at all
01:10:40 [davb]
Yeah, they are good.
01:10:59 [Spork]
yeah
01:12:20 [davb]
Ok, so just forget what I said :)
01:12:21 [Spork]
I don't understand what's Adaptecs problem though
01:12:28 [davb]
Uh, they suck?
01:12:31 [Spork]
they still dont' support overburning
01:12:39 [davb]
Anyway, they are "Roxio" now.
01:13:02 [Spork]
i know
01:13:14 [Spork]
new great name...same crappy product
01:13:24 [Spork]
oh!
01:13:25 [davb]
heh. They support 80 min CDRs now?
01:13:28 [Spork]
I will play some max Payne
01:13:30 [Spork]
Yeah
01:13:34 [davb]
Well its a start.
01:13:38 [Spork]
heh
01:13:49 [Spork]
yeah but I had a 707mb file
01:14:04 [davb]
I thought it would overburn if you just kept putting crap on the CD in the window.
01:14:13 [davb]
Anyway you have Nero.
01:14:54 [Spork]
no
01:14:58 [davb]
oh
01:15:02 [Spork]
it will reject the cd asking you to insert a bigger one
01:15:48 [davb]
oh, that is no fun.
01:16:13 [Spork]
exactli
01:17:05 [Spork]
i'm gonna play some max payne
01:17:08 [Spork]
be back later
01:17:11 [davb]
ok
01:41:44 [davb]
Hmmmm.
01:42:02 [davb]
Installing postgresql-contrib, installs the source for intarray, but doesn't build it.
01:42:17 [Spork]
arg
01:42:20 [Spork]
it frozeth
01:42:21 [davb]
It puts the source in /usr/lib/postgresql/lib/contrib where it can't be built.
01:42:23 [davb]
heh
01:42:43 [davb]
I am wrestling with the debian package system.
01:44:45 [davb]
its just about time to compile from source. oh well...
01:54:19 [Spork]
heh
01:54:25 [Spork]
BSD ports rule
01:54:33 [davb]
Now I have 2 copies of postgresql.
01:54:55 [davb]
Hah. Gilbert had to play musical symlinks with that to get openfts search working also! :)
01:55:09 [davb]
This is a very picky package.
01:57:46 [davb]
All it needs is a debian section in the configure script
02:06:41 [davb]
SUCESS!
02:06:48 [davb]
except in speleng
02:19:04 [davb]
This openFTS is amazing!
02:21:08 [jerryasher]
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02:21:36 [jerryasher]
Bueller?
02:22:23 [davb]
Ferris?
02:22:51 [jerryasher]
Hi Dave. So I have these blogs, and I have this tool to gen RSS .91 and 1.0.
02:22:58 [davb]
great!
02:23:01 [jerryasher]
(from a list of items).
02:23:14 [jerryasher]
(not just from blogs)
02:23:23 [davb]
BTW, the OpenFTS search in openacs4 is really incredibly amazing.
02:23:28 [davb]
Oh cool.
02:23:38 [jerryasher]
aggregator.userland.com tells me that my .91 feeds are valid
02:23:44 [davb]
excellent.
02:23:51 [jerryasher]
though I don't know about the 1.0 feeds.
02:24:14 [jerryasher]
So I was wondering if you or Aaron knew of a place to validate 1.0 feeds
02:24:28 [davb]
Oh I bet there is one. I'll look.
02:24:30 [jerryasher]
and in general of a place I can test/publish my lil old blog with.
02:24:35 [AaronSw]
I can take a look at one.
02:24:41 [AaronSw]
syndic8.com is good for that.
02:24:45 [davb]
Or AaronSw can look at it.
02:24:46 [jerryasher]
Oh! Hi Aaron!
02:24:57 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw heard his name
02:25:02 [AaronSw]
and sped over
02:25:22 [jerryasher]
As a demo, I've been thinking of creating an RSS feed of the last 15 OpenACS posts
02:25:36 [jerryasher]
and letting my.userland.com and webblogs.com carry them.
02:26:03 [AaronSw]
that'd be quit neat
02:26:34 [jerryasher]
There are times I perceive ACS as so stodgy...!
02:26:37 [davb]
Hopefully we can get it in OpenAcs 4 so that openacs.org can do it itself.
02:26:57 [jerryasher]
The routine I wrote is completely general. It may only need to be updated to use
02:27:02 [jerryasher]
a new version of ad_proc.
02:27:23 [davb]
Cool.
02:27:24 [jerryasher]
Although RSS 1.0 support is very primitive, only the .91 version so to speak.
02:27:37 [jerryasher]
No dublin core or anything else I didn't need.
02:27:55 [jerryasher]
Anyway, I would like to see OpenACS do it for themselves. After I get this working a bit
02:28:00 [jerryasher]
I was going to email talli.
02:28:33 [jerryasher]
Okay then, dinner is about ready. If you can find a 1.0 validator, I would appreciate it,
02:28:46 [jerryasher]
and if not, I will be back in a bit with a link that you can use to look at the xml yourselves.
02:29:17 [davb]
Again, cool. (vocabulary is limited tonight... :)
02:29:31 [jerryasher]
After that, it's the Jules Dassin classic, Rififi http://www.imdb.com/Title?0048021
02:29:41 [AaronSw]
Say my name when you get back.
02:29:46 [AaronSw]
So i'll come check it out
02:29:50 [jerryasher]
Will do! See ya later.
02:31:22 [AaronSw]
c'ya
02:38:03 [docwolf]
anyone know why photo.net is dead?
02:40:05 [docwolf]
philip's site is toast, too.
02:40:25 [davb]
ack!
02:40:30 [davb]
They were talking about moving it.
02:41:20 [docwolf]
hmm
02:41:28 [docwolf]
looks like a multi-day outage
02:41:38 [docwolf]
how long could it take to transfer it over to another machine?
02:41:41 [docwolf]
weirdness
02:41:45 [davb]
Philip.greenspun.com was up yesterday
02:41:59 [docwolf]
right, but the little note says it's not coming back up until monday
02:41:59 [davb]
They wanted to switch from solaris to linux, or at least were thinking about it.
02:42:01 [docwolf]
(they think)
02:42:06 [davb]
aha.
02:42:10 [davb]
didn't see that.
02:42:12 [docwolf]
you'd think if they had a migration plan
02:42:16 [docwolf]
it would be rapid
02:42:31 [davb]
They were asking on the bboard for advice.
02:42:35 [docwolf]
!!
02:42:36 [docwolf]
really?!
02:42:39 [davb]
Yes.
02:42:54 [docwolf]
you've gotta be kidding
02:43:21 [davb]
http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00030u&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS
02:43:21 [chump]
F: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00030u&topic_id=11&topic=OpenACS from davb
02:43:39 [davb]
F:|Advice for moving photo.net off a solaris system
02:43:40 [chump]
titled item F
02:43:45 [davb]
F: openacs.org bboard thread
02:43:45 [chump]
commented item F
02:43:57 [docwolf]
wow
02:43:59 [docwolf]
that's bizzaro
02:44:14 [davb]
Not really. they were only on Solaris because aD was married to it.
02:44:31 [docwolf]
i know, but photo.net
02:44:35 [docwolf]
as far as i understood
02:44:38 [docwolf]
was "business".
02:44:47 [docwolf]
when i was at aD, I actually had a desk
02:44:55 [docwolf]
that was intermingled in the photo.net space. cool bunch of guys.
02:44:58 [davb]
Oh right.
02:45:04 [davb]
Weird.
02:45:10 [docwolf]
but the way I understood it, they had advertisers, etc..
02:45:22 [davb]
Yes. They were at least trying to make money.
02:45:23 [docwolf]
so unlike a hobby site, "going down" would seem to be a big deal
02:45:31 [davb]
But Sun boxes and Oracle are not cheap.
02:45:44 [docwolf]
right. i understand the motivation for the switch
02:45:55 [docwolf]
i just don't understand the execution -- killing the service for 2+ days
02:46:16 [davb]
Yeah. That is strange. You;d think they would have a better plan.
02:46:29 [docwolf]
wild stuff. oh well. the photo.net people were some of the coolest folk at 80 prospect st.
02:46:44 [davb]
Interesting.
02:47:09 [davb]
I guess they really liked what they were doing.
02:47:28 [docwolf]
yup. they were all a little bit older, more experienced and i think worked at photo.net 'cause it was fun
02:48:00 [davb]
Aha. Well hopefully it can support them. That has got to be one of the longest running independent web sites ever.
02:48:23 [docwolf]
yeah. it would be a shame for it to totally die.
02:48:35 [docwolf]
but if somethingawful.com can run on donations
02:48:40 [docwolf]
i have a feeling photo.net could too
02:48:56 [docwolf]
(somethingawful has serious bandwidth requirements...)
02:49:42 [AaronSw]
Hmm, Rajeev was pretty cool, I agree.
02:49:53 [docwolf]
hi aaron
02:49:53 [AaronSw]
Don't know many of the others, I suppose.
02:50:03 [docwolf]
yeah, hanging out on the 2nd floor was always a nice respite
02:50:04 [AaronSw]
Hi there, docwolf... just reading backlogs for a bit.
02:50:23 [AaronSw]
rajeev tried to get me to implement features for him, heh heh
02:50:24 [davb]
I think I'll download Philip's photography book also.
02:50:36 [davb]
That is funny. They should upgrade to OpenACS 4.
02:50:54 [davb]
You could just have billed him $150/hour
02:50:59 [davb]
:)
02:51:12 [AaronSw]
Heh!
02:51:23 [AaronSw]
I doubt they had the money to pay.
02:51:36 [AaronSw]
When I was over there Rajeev cheered every time they got a new Paypal payment... which was once.
02:52:23 [davb]
that is really too bad. its a great site.
03:15:03 [davb]
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03:39:45 [docwolf]
hi vinod
03:40:31 [vinod]
hey docwolf, what's up?
04:14:01 [Spork]
* Spork pokes vinod in the eye with abbaJ the size of a docwolf
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15:34:46 [Spork]
heh
15:34:50 [Spork]
My clocks changed
15:53:27 [Spork]
* Spork needs more sleep
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17:10:01 [talli]
hey guys
17:10:57 [adler]
hey talli
17:11:03 [talli]
hey
17:11:11 [adler]
i just hopped on myself
17:12:59 [talli]
welcome. you at the NYPL?
17:14:24 [adler]
i just hopped on myself Brooklyn
17:14:31 [adler]
errss....
17:14:42 [adler]
fuckig mIRC
17:15:04 [adler]
the nypl is closed on Sundays. So I"m on dialup from home in Brookln
17:15:49 [adler]
i need to bend over and try once again to get DSL service
17:16:06 [talli]
i'm about to do that myself
17:16:13 [talli]
panix was with northpoint before
17:16:18 [talli]
so i got hosed then
17:16:27 [talli]
they moved to focal who is apparently offering decent service
17:16:46 [adler]
christ. who can you trust in this filthy broadband market?
17:17:16 [talli]
i do not know. verizon?
17:17:35 [adler]
you can trust them to violate fair competition.
17:18:32 [adler]
while they may simplify the process of installing a line, there IP-oriented service is sub par
17:18:42 [adler]
so I've heard
17:25:13 [talli]
no, they are horrible in every possible way.
17:25:18 [talli]
they will not simplify anything
17:25:35 [talli]
verizon is a soviet conspiracy to overtake our country.
17:26:17 [talli]
you may have thought that communism was done, while in fact it has only gone underground bu infiltrating our great corporations and turning them into sloth.
17:27:47 [adler]
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17:32:09 [adler]
i love verizon
17:33:45 [davb]
wow everyone is in a great mood today
17:33:49 [davb]
:)
17:34:16 [adler]
i was walking down the street in Park Slope and I sense a palpable, general discontent
17:45:36 [adler]
talli: are you listening to the radio? all the public radio stations are asking for money -- yet another conspiracy
17:45:53 [talli]
chirst almighty
17:47:13 [adler]
the nerve
17:49:02 [talli]
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18:51:09 [Spork]
* Spork is freeeeeeezing
18:51:26 [Spork]
* Spork pokes davb with a til the size of rbm
18:53:45 [davb]
heh
18:53:52 [Spork]
:)
18:53:54 [davb]
WHat? Its nice!
18:53:59 [Spork]
Nice?
18:54:04 [Spork]
The weather is nice
18:54:13 [Spork]
but my toes are about to fall off and run to take a hot shower
18:54:13 [davb]
Sure must be 50 degrees outside. Well we have sun up here anyway.
18:54:19 [davb]
:)
18:54:38 [Spork]
I hate having multiboot machines
18:54:55 [Spork]
Somehow you ALWAYS wind up being 2-3 hours off when the time rolls over
19:03:29 [davb]
I am always 5 hours off somehow.
19:03:43 [davb]
Linux and windows like to play games with how they interpretr the time.
19:08:37 [abbaJ]
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19:19:12 [k2pts]
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19:19:18 [k2pts]
hi guys
19:19:32 [k2pts]
davb: got your email. i will get back to you after dinner. ok?
19:20:21 [davb]
Sure. no problem!
19:20:29 [k2pts]
bbl
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19:34:15 [Spork]
bbl gotta go get my cell phone
19:40:26 [hazmat]
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19:58:24 [davb]
hi hazmat
19:58:37 [hazmat]
hi davb
19:59:01 [hazmat]
davb: i was curious where are the chump archives for this channel?
20:12:22 [k2pts]
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20:13:26 [k2pts]
hi everybody
20:13:38 [k2pts]
hazmat: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
20:19:24 [davb]
Hi k2pts
20:19:31 [k2pts]
hi davb
20:20:13 [k2pts]
the "content" field should include the absolute path to your file
20:20:22 [k2pts]
when storage_type='file'
20:20:28 [davb]
Ok. I fixed it so that the datasource proc figures it out.
20:20:39 [k2pts]
yes, that's the right thing to do
20:20:41 [davb]
The indexer seems to be doing alot of work, but I can't find my pages.
20:20:57 [k2pts]
sounds strange
20:21:25 [davb]
Is there a table I can look in to see what has been indexed?
20:21:37 [k2pts]
yes, select * from txt;
20:21:42 [davb]
ok.
20:21:55 [k2pts]
i think i know what's your problem. i am trying to remember what causes it
20:24:12 [hazmat]
k2pts: search question, is the search system an all or nothing, ie something is either searchable or not. can we define restrictions on the search results to pass in to the search query
20:24:46 [k2pts]
elaborate
20:25:03 [davb]
I am using mime type='text/html' BTW
20:25:20 [k2pts]
davb: it should work
20:25:40 [hazmat]
say i only want to search the bboard? or messages of the bboard that are within a certain forum, or that were posted after a certain date?
20:25:49 [davb]
some of the pages did get indexed. But most did not. I am going to compare them.
20:26:22 [k2pts]
hazmat: we left that for the next release cycle due to lack of time. it should be too hard to implement though (i hope)
20:27:30 [davb]
Weird. A little tiny html file with almost no content has quite a few items in fts_index. A big page has none.
20:28:30 [k2pts]
hazmat: i thought about it a bit but never got the chance to implement it. we can pass the mime type while indexing and it will get stored into the index table. then, we can provide an extra parameter for mime type (this will add an "and" clause to the sql query which performs the search)
20:29:15 [k2pts]
davb: how big is "big"
20:29:21 [davb]
checking...
20:29:53 [davb]
2273 bytes. the small one was 258 bytes. I don't think that is it.
20:30:03 [k2pts]
no, that's not it
20:30:06 [Spork]
bah
20:30:08 [davb]
All of the pages I took over from my other site for testing are not indexed.
20:30:08 [Spork]
stupid Sprint
20:30:13 [Spork]
No good beatniks
20:30:16 [davb]
The ones i created by hand work ok.
20:30:33 [k2pts]
point me to one of your pages
20:30:40 [davb]
they are indexed, but there isn't anything in fts_index.
20:31:09 [k2pts]
which version of openfts have you downloaded?
20:31:15 [davb]
never mind. It looks like they are adp pages with an html extension...
20:31:16 [k2pts]
0.1 or 0.2?
20:31:17 [davb]
0.2
20:31:55 [k2pts]
strange
20:31:57 [davb]
no not all of them are adps, just the one.
20:32:46 [k2pts]
hazmat: I will try to implement this as soon as i'm done with acs-wf
20:32:55 [davb]
All the titles are the same on almost all of them.
20:33:40 [davb]
hmmm, that link I gave you was not indexed.
20:33:51 [davb]
never mind...
20:34:56 [k2pts]
ok, your html page starts with >. that might cause the parser to ignore stuff (i'm not sure though). try adding the <html> tag and reindex. let me know what happened
20:35:45 [k2pts]
hazmat: I meant it should *not* be too difficult to implement
20:35:51 [davb]
Yes I noticted that.
20:35:57 [davb]
I fixed it let me see what happens.
20:37:01 [k2pts]
hazmat...
20:37:45 [davb]
Does not seem to have helped.
20:38:11 [k2pts]
check your logs. is there any helpful message
20:39:57 [k2pts]
davb: ok, here's what I have for you:
20:40:18 [k2pts]
a. open a terminal window and connect to pgsql
20:40:37 [k2pts]
b. select * from search_observer_queue
20:41:02 [davb]
o rows
20:41:03 [k2pts]
c. try to index a page (new index -- rename one of those that don't work)
20:41:22 [k2pts]
d. you should be really fast here and repeat the select statement given in (b)
20:41:31 [hazmat]
k2pts: trying to understand looking at the wf query...
20:41:37 [k2pts]
e. post the select results
20:41:57 [davb]
right.
20:42:09 [davb]
object_id | date | event
20:42:09 [davb]
-----------+------------------------+--------
20:42:09 [davb]
2503 | 2001-10-28 15:52:24-05 | UPDATE
20:42:09 [davb]
2505 | 2001-10-28 15:52:24-05 | UPDATE
20:42:09 [davb]
2535 | 2001-10-28 15:52:24-05 | UPDATE
20:42:10 [davb]
2537 | 2001-10-28 15:52:25-05 | UPDATE
20:42:12 [davb]
2539 | 2001-10-28 15:52:25-05 | UPDATE
20:42:14 [davb]
2541 | 2001-10-28 15:52:25-05 | UPDATE
20:42:15 [davb]
2543 | 2001-10-28 15:52:25-05 | UPDATE
20:42:18 [davb]
2545 | 2001-10-28 15:52:26-05 | UPDATE
20:42:19 [davb]
2509 | 2001-10-28 15:52:26-05 | UPDATE
20:42:21 [davb]
2511 | 2001-10-28 15:52:26-05 | UPDATE
20:42:23 [davb]
2513 | 2001-10-28 15:52:26-05 | UPDATE
20:42:25 [davb]
2515 | 2001-10-28 15:52:26-05 | UPDATE
20:42:28 [davb]
2517 | 2001-10-28 15:52:26-05 | UPDATE
20:42:30 [davb]
2519 | 2001-10-28 15:52:27-05 | UPDATE
20:42:32 [davb]
2521 | 2001-10-28 15:52:27-05 | UPDATE
20:42:34 [davb]
2523 | 2001-10-28 15:52:27-05 | UPDATE
20:42:36 [davb]
2525 | 2001-10-28 15:52:27-05 | UPDATE
20:42:38 [davb]
2527 | 2001-10-28 15:52:27-05 | UPDATE
20:42:40 [davb]
2547 | 2001-10-28 15:52:27-05 | INSERT
20:42:41 [davb]
2547 | 2001-10-28 15:52:27-05 | UPDATE
20:42:43 [davb]
2547 | 2001-10-28 15:52:28-05 | UPDATE
20:42:45 [davb]
2529 | 2001-10-28 15:52:28-05 | UPDATE
20:42:47 [davb]
(22 rows)
20:42:51 [davb]
2547 is the new page/
20:43:39 [Spork]
ack
20:43:47 [k2pts]
syn
20:43:54 [Spork]
res
20:44:10 [k2pts]
davb: how many pages have tried to index altogether and how long ago?
20:44:34 [Spork]
is astiphylax written with a - or space?
20:44:58 [davb]
I have 20 static pages.
20:45:15 [davb]
I set them up before I sent that email.
20:45:47 [k2pts]
Spork: "astiphylax" is right
20:45:58 [Spork]
i know, I can't find it on google though
20:46:43 [k2pts]
davb: i'm confused, please explain. the 22 rows that you have posted were the results of step (b) or step (d)?
20:46:48 [davb]
Ok. I just deleted all the static pages.
20:46:50 [davb]
d
20:47:08 [k2pts]
davb: can't you index one page at a time?
20:47:49 [davb]
It is setup to scan the filesystem. I could have just one html page.
20:48:08 [k2pts]
Spork: astiphylax is only used in greek (perhaps is an old word). probably, you couldn't find it because it translates to policeman (or something similar)
20:59:04 [Spork]
order keeper!
20:59:05 [Spork]
;)
20:59:12 [k2pts]
right
20:59:14 [Spork]
just like
20:59:17 [Spork]
Spork is now known as Psychephylax
20:59:32 [Psychephylax]
is Soul Keeper =)
20:59:39 [Psychephylax]
muahahaha
20:59:47 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax sneaks behind dave and steals his soul
21:00:11 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax feels guilty and stuffs it back into dave
21:00:31 [k2pts]
davb: are you ok?
21:00:42 [davb]
heh
21:00:43 [Psychephylax]
hehehe...ok, if phylax is keeper what's _____ stealer ?
21:01:04 [Psychephylax]
or thief I guess
21:01:04 [davb]
Ok I made a little page and it doesn't seem to have worked.
21:01:11 [k2pts]
kleftis
21:01:14 [k2pts]
listis
21:01:15 [Psychephylax]
cool
21:01:25 [Psychephylax]
Psychekleftis
21:01:34 [k2pts]
lol
21:01:50 [k2pts]
davb: post link or send page
21:02:16 [davb]
Interesting.
21:02:30 [k2pts]
what?
21:03:13 [davb]
well I can search for notes. so that is working.
21:03:14 [Psychephylax]
I got one more
21:03:19 [Psychephylax]
what's borrower?
21:06:14 [Psychephylax]
?
21:06:25 [k2pts]
daneistis
21:06:30 [Psychephylax]
cool
21:06:39 [k2pts]
xrewstis
21:06:45 [k2pts]
xreos=dept
21:06:48 [k2pts]
daneio=loan
21:06:58 [Psychephylax]
hehehe
21:07:22 [Psychephylax]
so borrower is daneistis or xrewstis?
21:07:31 [Psychephylax]
or are they synonimous
21:08:10 [AaronSw]
one is debtor and one is loaner
21:08:25 [AaronSw]
it looks like to me
21:08:25 [Psychephylax]
AaronSw you know greek?
21:08:38 [AaronSw]
no... but that was k2pts said, soulboy
21:08:38 [Psychephylax]
i guess not =)
21:08:50 [Psychephylax]
oh
21:08:52 [Psychephylax]
makes sense
21:08:52 [AaronSw]
:-)
21:08:59 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax sucks AaronSw's soul through a straw
21:09:06 [Psychephylax]
mmmmmmmmm....yummy!
21:09:07 [AaronSw]
aaah!
21:09:27 [Psychephylax]
Lay off Pina Coladas dude :)
21:09:34 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax chuckles
21:16:24 [davb]
Opps. here is the problem... Database operation "dml" failed
21:16:37 [davb]
Cannot insert a duplicate key into unique index index13_key
21:16:38 [davb]
): '
21:17:00 [k2pts]
are you sure you have the latest version
21:17:02 [k2pts]
?
21:17:04 [davb]
Before it does that it deletes from index1 - index 12
21:17:09 [k2pts]
this is the bug I mention earlier
21:17:21 [davb]
Oh. Where is the bug?
21:17:24 [davb]
openfts-driver?
21:17:27 [k2pts]
no
21:17:29 [k2pts]
openfts
21:17:31 [Psychephylax]
just point me in the right direction and I'll steal it's soul!
21:17:41 [k2pts]
it is missing an "="
21:17:41 [davb]
Hm. I downloaded openfts-0.2.
21:18:04 [davb]
Ok. that is the aolserver module?
21:18:15 [k2pts]
ok
21:18:39 [k2pts]
not your fault. i just realize that we didn't create a new release when we found that bug
21:18:51 [k2pts]
goto your openfts src directory and edit fts_index
21:19:00 [k2pts]
s/fts_index/fts_index.tcl
21:19:19 [k2pts]
ack
21:20:07 [k2pts]
or you can cvs co
21:20:31 [davb]
I will edit the file for now... what do I need to fix?
21:20:46 [k2pts]
change line 364:
21:20:56 [davb]
That is incredible!!
21:21:02 [k2pts]
from:for {set i 1} {$i < $self(ING)} {incr i} {
21:21:06 [davb]
My cursor just happened to be on line 364
21:21:16 [k2pts]
to: for {set i 1} {$i <= $self(ING)} {incr i} {
21:21:21 [k2pts]
notice the =
21:21:23 [davb]
except that stuff is not on that line.
21:21:51 [k2pts]
i am looking at the cvs diff
21:21:58 [k2pts]
find that line
21:22:09 [davb]
its close 367. got it.
21:22:59 [k2pts]
you need to compile for this to take effect (no need to compile the aolserver module). just make
21:23:00 [k2pts]
make install
21:23:34 [davb]
ok
21:25:44 [davb]
Yeah!
21:25:50 [davb]
I found a bug in my code!
21:26:21 [k2pts]
good
21:26:34 [k2pts]
have you finished compiling?
21:27:15 [davb]
yes. It found the page, but my url contract had a typo.
21:27:40 [k2pts]
is it working now?
21:27:54 [davb]
nope, my query is wrong. Easy to fix.
21:28:00 [k2pts]
ok
21:29:04 [davb]
yippee!!
21:29:43 [k2pts]
congrats
21:29:49 [davb]
thanks.
21:30:08 [davb]
k2pts: does search use the keywords?
21:30:23 [k2pts]
not yet
21:30:38 [davb]
Ok. then I won't worry about extracting META keywords from the HTML yet.
21:31:06 [davb]
cool. I added all my pages and they are in there now and searchable.
21:31:28 [davb]
Now I have to upgrade my web site to openacs 4 so I can search the chump
21:31:36 [k2pts]
well done davb. i feel very good to see the search package in a live site.
21:32:51 [davb]
well not quite. Hopefully soon. I don't need to migrate my database, so it shouldn't be too bad.
21:33:12 [davb]
Now I must do some work in the yard. bbl Thanks again.
21:33:20 [k2pts]
cheers
22:10:38 [talli]
talli has joined #openacs
22:17:51 [k2pts]
hi talli
22:18:00 [talli]
hey neophytos
22:18:04 [talli]
how's cyprus today?
22:18:09 [k2pts]
how are we doing today?
22:18:10 [k2pts]
good
22:21:24 [davb]
Hi talli
22:21:28 [davb]
* davb is back
22:21:33 [talli]
hey dave
22:21:55 [k2pts]
hi davb
22:22:09 [k2pts]
talli: davb installed openfts on his site
22:22:20 [talli]
killer!
22:22:26 [talli]
how's it work davb?
22:22:31 [k2pts]
davb: what's the address again?
22:23:11 [davb]
not much in there.
22:23:21 [davb]
its on my development machine,
22:23:39 [davb]
wait, I am reinstalling it for a test...
22:26:43 [davb]
weird. Oops. I forgot to do load.sql.
22:28:16 [davb]
my good friend ph4gdj84dx just send me some information about merhcant accounts. Anyone interested? :)
22:29:19 [talli]
damn!
22:29:31 [talli]
too bad your friend wasn't offering information on low-interest loans
22:29:46 [davb]
sorry, that was last week.
22:29:46 [talli]
i'm really hurting for one of those from a strange spammer
22:30:58 [talli]
i bet i didn't act fast enough to not miss that opportunity. damn.
22:31:09 [talli]
i spent my time checking out the hot young chicks instead.
22:31:30 [davb]
heh
22:35:37 [davb]
aha, its fixed.
22:35:47 [davb]
I put my queries for the service contract in an xql file.
22:36:22 [davb]
oops.
22:36:41 [davb]
a template bug? can't read "offset_next": no such variable
22:36:41 [davb]
while executing
22:36:41 [davb]
"append __adp_output "
22:36:41 [davb]
<small><a href=search?q=${urlencoded_query}&offset=${offset_next}><font color=0000cc><b>Next</b></font></a></small>
22:36:41 [davb]
""
22:36:43 [davb]
invoked from within
22:36:45 [davb]
"if {"${from_result_page}" < "${to_result_page}"} {
22:36:47 [davb]
append __adp_output "
22:36:49 [davb]
<center>
22:37:46 [k2pts]
it works for me
22:38:04 [davb]
that URL?
22:38:06 [k2pts]
oops sorry
22:38:33 [davb]
I think its because there are more than 10 results.
22:41:27 [k2pts]
it worked when I test it. probably changed something stupid. it's been a while. I will let you know how to fix it in a moment
22:44:02 [k2pts]
this is probably something I changed and forgot to commit, can't find the fixed page. davb: change the whole ref to @url_previous@ and @url_next@ and let me know if it works
22:45:56 [k2pts]
ack
22:46:37 [k2pts]
davb??
22:49:10 [graszew]
graszew has quit
22:52:30 [davb]
i am back.
22:52:58 [talli]
btw, neophytos, thanks for taking on the search problem
22:53:06 [talli]
it's great that we have this solution.
22:53:12 [davb]
What file is that in?
22:53:12 [k2pts]
talli:np, davb:edit search/www/search-results-bottom.adp
22:53:41 [talli]
have you done any benchmarks of openfts vs. ht:dig or intermedia?
22:53:50 [talli]
do you have any sense of what the comparison might be like?
22:54:09 [k2pts]
openfts is better at indexing
22:54:16 [k2pts]
at online indexing
22:54:47 [k2pts]
intermedia is using reverse indexing which means that they have to update the whole index (index for all documents)
22:55:05 [davb]
aha, first page work. the "next" page is broken still:
22:55:06 [davb]
We had some problems processing your entry:
22:55:06 [davb]
22:55:06 [davb]
offset is not an integer
22:55:06 [davb]
You've supplied two values for 'offset'
22:55:09 [k2pts]
openfts index one document at a time (all the rest remain intact -- no full-reindexing)
22:55:28 [davb]
talli: also, it works :)
22:56:03 [talli]
ah, yes. the little "it actually works" argument
22:56:04 [davb]
should it be like this? &offset=@url_next@
22:56:10 [talli]
always rather compelling
22:56:30 [k2pts]
davb follow me: change search?q=@urlencoded_query@<if @offset_previous@ ne 0>&offset=@offset_previous@</if> to @url_previous@, similarly for next
22:57:05 [k2pts]
talli: yes lots of features. not to mention flexibility (you can add as many dictionaries as you like) and close integration with pgsql
22:57:23 [talli]
nice!
22:57:32 [talli]
what version are you guys on right now?
22:57:32 [k2pts]
i am currently working on a unicode parser but it is moving rather slowly.
22:57:45 [k2pts]
oleg and teodor do most of the work
22:58:03 [k2pts]
they have released tsearch which is very similar to openfts
22:58:17 [k2pts]
openfts will make use of tsearch in the future
22:59:25 [k2pts]
tsearch (is analogous to intermedia). you can ask queries like within pgsql rather than externally
22:59:49 [k2pts]
tsearch is available as a contrib/module for pgsql-7.2
23:00:08 [k2pts]
davb: it works now
23:02:50 [k2pts]
davb are you with us?
23:04:06 [talli]
so tsearch is a replacement of openfts?
23:04:23 [k2pts]
no
23:04:27 [talli]
and can openfts index files like .doc and .pdf?
23:04:36 [talli]
(i though openfts was like intermedia)
23:04:49 [k2pts]
ok give me a sec to explain
23:04:58 [talli]
np. take your time :)
23:05:58 [k2pts]
oleg and teodor also develop the intarray for pgsql.
23:06:09 [k2pts]
intarray provide set operations for array of integers
23:06:57 [k2pts]
so with intarray you can query a field (which is an intarray) if it is a superset, subset, or if it overlaps with another set.
23:07:27 [k2pts]
but in a search engine we are interested to search for words, not integers.
23:08:21 [k2pts]
so, openfts was built on top of intarray to parse text documents and assign a unique integer to each word. openfts also makes use of several dictionaries which are responsible for stemming and some ranking algorithms
23:09:14 [k2pts]
during september, teodor improved the intarray package with extra operators (e.g. not)
23:10:29 [k2pts]
he also replicate/copied some of the functionality (parser -- parsing documents to generate integer ids) into the tsearch modules.
23:10:34 [k2pts]
s/modules/module
23:11:57 [k2pts]
this enables the developer to write queries like "select * from foo where titleidx @@ '(the|this)&!we';"
23:12:05 [talli]
i get the sense that oleg and teodor are really fucking smart
23:12:31 [k2pts]
they are. @@=contains, !=or, &=and, !=not
23:13:23 [k2pts]
tsearch translates this query to something like "select * from foo where titleidx @@ '(1234|455436)&!843;"
23:14:14 [k2pts]
the openfts (which we use in our project) is doing this externally (out of pgsql)
23:14:28 [talli]
in perl or tcl, yes?
23:14:35 [k2pts]
both.
23:15:05 [talli]
depending on whether you use the perl version or the tcl version, right?
23:15:10 [k2pts]
in the future, openfts will contain the dictionaries, ranking algorithms but parsing and the rest of the stuff that I described will be included in tsearch
23:15:22 [k2pts]
depending??
23:15:59 [davb]
brb dinner
23:16:23 [k2pts]
davb: ok, we 'll talk tomorrow.
23:16:28 [talli]
ok. enjoy
23:16:37 [k2pts]
so tsearch is more similar to intermedia because it can be used inside pgsql
23:16:55 [k2pts]
but the ideas are the same for tsearch and openfts
23:16:58 [talli]
fyi, i meant that there are two versions, the tcl and the perl versions. each are different systems. but are mirrored in functionality
23:17:06 [k2pts]
exactly
23:17:25 [talli]
cool. so tsearch enjoys better performance because it is written in a language embedded in PG, yes?
23:17:32 [k2pts]
yes
23:17:35 [talli]
cool.
23:17:51 [talli]
any idea what kind of performance benefit it gets?
23:17:58 [talli]
is it in the orders of magnitude?
23:18:08 [k2pts]
check this link: http://openfts.sourceforge.net/tsearch/README.tsearch
23:18:26 [talli]
cool! thanks
23:18:41 [k2pts]
towards the end
23:18:56 [k2pts]
377905 titles
23:20:25 [talli]
i must admit i can't read it. i don't know what the differences mean
23:20:30 [talli]
but you can explain it to me later
23:20:39 [k2pts]
sure, it's very fast
23:20:45 [talli]
cool
23:21:24 [k2pts]
tsearch also includes a morph dictionary which it's very interesting in it's own respect
23:21:53 [k2pts]
stemming is used for the english language. when you follow english grammar (it cuts -ing from testing etc)
23:22:47 [talli]
cool
23:22:52 [k2pts]
now, think of astronomical terms, the names don't necessarily follow any grammar. so you cut the endings with respect to the morphology of a list of words that used to built your dictionary.
23:23:28 [talli]
oh, that's cool
23:23:43 [talli]
so you can create your own dictionary according to your particular need...
23:23:47 [talli]
that's neat
23:24:06 [k2pts]
yes
23:24:52 [k2pts]
you provide a list of words. there is some utility (which more or less finds the endings). while searching the search engine will cut the longest common subsequence of this endings
23:25:08 [talli]
cool!
23:25:12 [k2pts]
you know what's the funny thing
23:25:17 [talli]
can you create the dictionaries dynamically?
23:25:30 [k2pts]
yes this is what I meant with morphology
23:25:35 [talli]
ah, cool
23:25:47 [k2pts]
know what's the funny thing?
23:25:51 [talli]
what?
23:26:02 [k2pts]
I still can't search in greek
23:26:19 [k2pts]
but I did learned a lot and soon I will have the unicode parser built
23:26:33 [k2pts]
so everything will turn out well.
23:26:46 [talli]
nice
23:26:47 [talli]
:)
23:27:04 [davb]
k2pts: should it be offset=@url_next@ etc? It is saying offiset is not an integer
23:27:09 [k2pts]
no
23:27:27 [k2pts]
check the logs, i have posted what you should do
23:27:39 [k2pts]
change search?q=@urlencoded_query@<if @offset_previous@ ne 0>&offset=@offset_previous@</if> to @url_previous@, similarly for next
23:29:39 [davb]
so I have now: h?q=@urlencoded_query@<if @url_previous@ ne 0>&offset=@url_previous@
23:29:52 [Psychephylax]
You guys need girlfriends =)
23:29:52 [k2pts]
no
23:29:54 [Psychephylax]
or hobbies
23:30:06 [Psychephylax]
aside from OpenACS
23:30:08 [davb]
Ok. Sorry I am just not getting it :)
23:30:19 [k2pts]
change it to href=@url_previous@
23:30:45 [k2pts]
similarly for url_next
23:30:54 [k2pts]
ack
23:30:55 [davb]
aha.
23:31:35 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax goes to order Dave a "mail order bride"
23:31:44 [k2pts]
..."don just in case you are reading the logs I am stuck with two outer joing in the wf package. waiting for Dan to reply"... :)
23:31:49 [k2pts]
rofl
23:32:08 [k2pts]
s/joing/joins
23:32:21 [Psychephylax]
Dave, I'll try to find you one that's also into OpenACS but I think that's "extra"
23:32:28 [k2pts]
rofl
23:32:32 [k2pts]
lol
23:32:43 [talli]
Psychephylax: you're here too, you know...
23:32:48 [Psychephylax]
I know
23:32:54 [Psychephylax]
but I'm watching TV
23:33:05 [Psychephylax]
not discussing openACS ;)
23:33:07 [k2pts]
my tv broke so you will see a lot of me around from now
23:33:10 [talli]
maybe we can find *you* a bride that knows oracle syntax?
23:33:18 [k2pts]
:)
23:33:19 [k2pts]
lol
23:33:25 [Psychephylax]
We sure can try
23:33:41 [Psychephylax]
Try to find me that knows everything
23:33:45 [Psychephylax]
oh...wait...
23:33:49 [Psychephylax]
That'll be anyone...
23:34:01 [Psychephylax]
Or at least they'll think they know everything....*women*
23:37:09 [davb]
It works. Thanks!
23:37:29 [davb]
The first page is over 1MB though.
23:37:43 [k2pts]
davb: send me the file to commit it :)
23:37:47 [davb]
Ok.
23:37:54 [Psychephylax]
wow
23:37:57 [Psychephylax]
very google like
23:38:02 [k2pts]
yes, thanx
23:38:17 [k2pts]
davb: disable the permissions to make it faster
23:38:29 [k2pts]
go to the search package parameters
23:38:34 [k2pts]
no
23:38:39 [k2pts]
openfts-driver parameters
23:38:47 [davb]
Ok. I see, it checks permissions for each link before sending it?
23:38:53 [k2pts]
yes
23:39:12 [k2pts]
i haven't done any optimizations yet. i have something in mind about that (next release)
23:39:58 [k2pts]
talli: about doc and pdf: I have designed the search package in such a way that it is to index pdf, doc or other format files. i will automate it in the next release
23:40:10 [k2pts]
s/it is/it is easy
23:40:22 [davb]
k2pts: I send it with DCC, or should I email it?
23:40:28 [k2pts]
you will need converters but they are available
23:40:51 [k2pts]
can't receive it. would pls send it with email?
23:40:55 [davb]
sure.
23:41:17 [talli]
nkd: cool!
23:41:22 [talli]
that's good to know. thanks
23:41:40 [k2pts]
you are welcome
23:42:23 [davb]
sent.
23:42:52 [davb]
Gotta go perform pumpkin lobotomies :)
23:42:56 [Psychephylax]
haha
23:43:01 [k2pts]
davb: thanx. would you pls disable the permission checks so that people here can see how fast openfts is (the permissions are delaying)
23:43:18 [Psychephylax]
Just make sure to stay above the pumpkin waist
23:43:33 [davb]
ok
23:44:19 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax wanders off to read some Electrical Engineering mumbo jumbp
23:44:27 [Psychephylax]
s/jumbp/jumbo
23:44:41 [davb]
should i restart?
23:44:55 [k2pts]
no, thanx
23:45:03 [davb]
could be my server making it slow...
23:45:10 [k2pts]
0.11 sec
23:45:24 [davb]
ok.
23:46:08 [k2pts]
let me explain something about this time. openfts is a lot faster but we are also producing summaries (which means an extra db query for each result)
23:46:40 [k2pts]
the summary function is a bit slow
23:52:39 [k2pts]
need to go off to get some sleep.
23:52:51 [k2pts]
buy guys
23:52:58 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
23:53:58 [davb]
Cool.
23:54:30 [davb]
Take advantage of that while you can. I'll be taking the server down soon. I will be migrating my personal site this week over to OpenACS 4 so it will be back.
23:54:45 [talli]
cool
23:54:52 [talli]
you gonna use etp? :)
23:55:15 [davb]
yes. I have to figure out how to get my old crappy weblog into that database.
23:56:27 [talli]
cool
23:57:18 [talli]
i'm going to write an email to you about some help we need for openacs.museatech. it will probably be tomorrow becuasa ei ahve a monster proposal that needs to go out tomorrow morning
23:58:13 [davb]
Ok.
23:58:22 [davb]
* davb is going to the dark side
23:58:36 [davb]
(search page will temporarily disappear)
23:58:43 [davb]
davb has quit