IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:09 [davb]
rbm: stalled. I forgot about them I was so busy :)
00:00:41 [davb]
also the second half of the 5th lecture is corrupted.
00:00:44 [nkd]
I am not sure he was referring to the permissions. IIRC, this post was after Jon's team fixed the permissions.
00:01:07 [davb]
right, I just meant I am confident it is fixable. But yes it probably needs to be fixed.
00:01:31 [davb]
also the ACS CR stored everything in blobs.
00:01:32 [nkd]
ok
00:01:57 [hazmat]
i'm more concerned if its a fundamental design flaw...
00:02:16 [davb]
right.
00:02:21 [rbm]
davb: okay
00:02:39 [davb]
I am going to email someone at aduni.org to see if they have a copy of it or something.
00:02:41 [nkd]
same here
00:02:54 [nkd]
are you talking about the aduni lecture videos
00:02:55 [nkd]
?
00:02:58 [davb]
yes.
00:03:15 [nkd]
80GB
00:03:16 [davb]
These are the MIT SICP lectures.
00:03:29 [davb]
or just the MIT SICP lectures. 12 CDs
00:03:40 [nkd]
cool. They are not available online anymore right?
00:04:05 [davb]
I don;t think so. They are copyright MIT. The aduni lectures are still there.
00:04:58 [nkd]
do you have a link for the mit sicp videos
00:05:08 [nkd]
great introduction by abelson by the way
00:05:54 [davb]
I don't know if there is one. I DLed them before arsdigita foundation folded.
00:06:26 [davb]
Of course eventually they should be available because MIT is releasing their course materials online.
00:06:28 [nkd]
I have ask somebody for aduni to make a copy of all the lectures for me and ship them to me. But, I don't know if the mit sicp lectures will be included.
00:06:45 [nkd]
yes, I have read about it (opencourseware)
00:08:40 [nkd]
The introduction by Abelson was *great*.
00:08:57 [Spork]
ok, I got a semi-joke thing for you
00:09:04 [nkd]
me
00:09:05 [nkd]
?
00:09:13 [Spork]
everyone
00:09:20 [nkd]
go ahead
00:09:29 [Spork]
I'm starting to read russian books again and of course my mom gave me an easy one
00:09:47 [Spork]
So it talks about little children talking and (translated of course)
00:10:02 [Spork]
One of them says "Mom, what's heaven"
00:10:19 [Spork]
"It's where apples and pears and oranges grow"
00:10:31 [Spork]
"I understand heaven...fruit punch"
00:10:50 [Spork]
and another one--
00:11:04 [Spork]
A little kid cut a rain worm in half...
00:11:10 [Spork]
Why did you do that..
00:11:13 [Spork]
It was lonely
00:11:20 [Spork]
now there are two, they're happier
00:11:31 [Spork]
ahh..what it's like to be a little innocent kid
00:12:47 [nkd]
I think it's time to change your nick to psychephylax :)
00:12:59 [Spork]
hehehe
00:13:01 [Spork]
Oh
00:13:03 [nkd]
:)
00:13:07 [Spork]
How do I pronounce it properly!
00:13:20 [nkd]
psi-chi-phi-lax
00:13:21 [Spork]
Seeing how russian + english don't mix and do not equal greek speak
00:13:31 [Spork]
so the p is not silent?
00:13:41 [Spork]
I thought it would be sy-ke fi-lax
00:13:57 [nkd]
no, like psi factor
00:14:10 [Spork]
i don't know how to pronounce it either hehe
00:14:19 [nkd]
give me a sec
00:14:27 [Spork]
going to record it? hehe
00:14:33 [nkd]
:)
00:14:47 [nkd]
going through my dictionary
00:14:52 [Spork]
ok
00:16:04 [davb]
vinod: I am finally testing that idea for static-pages.
00:16:35 [nkd]
i can't find anything to explain. the psi is not silent.
00:16:36 [vinod]
ahh... cool
00:17:05 [Spork]
hang on
00:17:08 [nkd]
like pci
00:17:09 [Spork]
Time for me to look :P
00:17:49 [Spork]
ok since when did yahoo convert to using these gay annoying pop up ads
00:18:18 [nkd]
:) spell the letter c after p
00:18:19 [vinod]
vinod has quit
00:19:03 [rbm]
rbm has quit
00:19:17 [Spork]
aha
00:19:32 [Spork]
it's here: http://www.geocities.com/esperantujo/vocab.html
00:20:09 [nkd]
that's it
00:20:52 [Spork]
Nice
00:21:03 [Spork]
godess of soul hehe
00:21:08 [nkd]
:)
00:21:23 [Spork]
"Soul, considered collectively, has the care of all that which is soulless,
00:21:23 [Spork]
and it traverses the whole heaven, appearing sometimes in one form and
00:21:25 [Spork]
sometimes in another." [Socrates. Plato, Phaedrus 246b]
00:21:47 [nkd]
nice
00:22:00 [Spork]
yeah my quote
00:22:55 [Spork]
Greek mythology rules
00:23:16 [nkd]
yeah
00:23:55 [Spork]
k well i have conflicting info again: http://apk.net/~fjk/psyche.html
00:23:59 [Spork]
first question
00:24:28 [Spork]
I would agree with that more than with psi
00:24:36 [Spork]
I do think the p is silent
00:25:47 [Spork]
lol
00:25:54 [Spork]
Another take on it's prononcuation:
00:25:56 [Spork]
Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
00:25:56 [Spork]
Is a paling stout and spikey?
00:26:28 [nkd]
the best nick is "outis"
00:26:34 [Spork]
ootis
00:26:35 [Spork]
hehe
00:26:50 [Spork]
Aha!
00:26:56 [Spork]
PSI
00:26:56 [Spork]
PSI is pronounced usually as P+S, but in English we often shorten it to an "S". Examples are
00:26:58 [Spork]
PSYCHE, PSYCHOLOGY, PSORIASIS.
00:27:12 [nkd]
PSORIASIS.
00:27:20 [Spork]
I was thinking of psychology
00:27:25 [Spork]
P is silent on that
00:27:33 [Spork]
sy-ko-lo-gy
00:27:37 [nkd]
not like psychology
00:27:51 [nkd]
p+c, not p+e+c
00:27:59 [Spork]
I won't argue
00:28:02 [nkd]
ok
00:28:03 [nkd]
:)
00:28:13 [Spork]
I see where you're right...After all, you guys invented the language :)
00:28:39 [Spork]
It's like a tongue twister
00:28:53 [nkd]
:)
00:29:22 [Spork]
Yikes: definetly don't wanna be associated with this: http://www.connext.net/~psyche/slaves.html
00:30:14 [nkd]
lol
00:30:36 [Spork]
yeah yeah
00:30:39 [Spork]
laugh all you want
00:31:31 [nkd]
have you ever read greek poetry?
00:31:49 [Spork]
umm...I might
00:31:51 [Spork]
have
00:31:53 [Spork]
I don't remember
00:32:32 [Spork]
I'm very upset with myself, I used to read things like Vern, Cooper, Poe, O. Henry, Greek Mythology when I was like 7-9
00:32:41 [Spork]
Now I can't read books...I don't know why
00:38:01 [nkd]
spork, have you read it?
00:40:08 [nkd]
spork
00:41:23 [Spork]
ack
00:41:34 [Spork]
I read a part of it before BitchX kicked in with a MSG flood
00:41:38 [Spork]
e-mail it to me?
00:42:08 [nkd]
ok
00:42:15 [Spork]
nick@neverhere.com
00:43:20 [nkd]
done
00:43:28 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit
00:44:13 [nkd]
" have come to the end. I thank you for your patience. I am
00:44:14 [nkd]
also grateful that «the bounty of Sweden» has permitted me in
00:44:14 [nkd]
the end to feel as if I were «nobody» - understanding this word
00:44:14 [nkd]
in the sense that Ulysses gave it when he replied to the
00:44:14 [nkd]
Cyclops, Polyphemus: «outiz» - nobody, in that mysterious
00:44:14 [nkd]
current which is Greece. " George Seferis (Nobel Lecture -- Nobel Laureate 1963)
00:44:44 [nkd]
have to go get some sleep. It's almost 4 o' clock in the morning here in cyprus
00:45:19 [Spork]
cool
00:45:21 [Spork]
a poem about life
00:45:26 [davb]
yeah.
00:45:38 [davb]
anything interesting happening on the bboards? My email is still not working.
00:45:39 [Spork]
wow neat
00:45:58 [nkd]
spork would you forward it to davb?
00:45:58 [Spork]
nkd one of my mom's co-workers if from Cyprus
00:46:09 [nkd]
yeah. which city?
00:46:10 [Spork]
I'll just put it on my site :)
00:46:15 [Spork]
No clue
00:46:18 [nkd]
what's the url?
00:46:19 [Spork]
Don't remember
00:46:24 [Spork]
I didn't do it yet
00:46:36 [nkd]
ok
00:46:43 [nkd]
later guys
00:47:03 [davb]
bye
00:47:07 [Spork]
ok
00:47:14 [nkd]
nkd has left #openacs
00:47:19 [Spork]
it's here http://www.neverhere.com:1085/ithaca.txt
00:48:35 [davb]
cool. I fell like visiting central new york.
00:48:42 [davb]
s/fell/feel
00:48:48 [Spork]
how's that?
00:49:18 [Spork]
Dave, you up for helping me?
00:49:22 [davb]
"journey to Ithaca,
00:49:22 [davb]
"
00:49:26 [Spork]
oh
00:49:27 [Spork]
hehe
00:49:29 [davb]
Sure.
00:49:36 [davb]
I will do my best.
00:49:40 [Spork]
No, I think the poem is more about life and how it shouldn't be rushed
00:49:46 [Spork]
it's easy kinda ;)
00:50:13 [Spork]
Since you must have seen me explain "what I'm doing" in non-professional terms at least 5 times you're a good candidate
00:50:34 [Spork]
plus, I find that if i throw ideas at someone I write better and make less mistakes (if writing or coding)
00:51:10 [Spork]
(Referring to me) Description of project. (I am currently working on)
00:51:21 [Spork]
How would you describe what I am doing?
00:52:39 [davb]
Web-based technical support management and tracking application?
00:52:58 [Spork]
ok that's good
00:53:02 [davb]
support call management and tracking... maybe
00:53:45 [davb]
I love yahoo store. If you cookie expires, you don;t have to sign in, it just takes you to a random page with no way to get back.
00:53:56 [Spork]
heh
00:54:36 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
00:54:42 [Spork]
hi AaronSw
00:54:58 [davb]
are you using it to keep track of all the calls? or just to check the status/history of a modem?
00:55:13 [Spork]
just the status/history of a modem
00:55:34 [davb]
ok.
00:55:52 [Spork]
so far I got Modem tracking, User Management..need one more
00:57:35 [davb]
It queries the modem for status, and stores that information in a history....hmmm
00:58:12 [davb]
is there an emacs command to get rid of extraneous whitespace? I did something by accident that seemd to have that result and now I need to do it on purpose.
00:59:17 [Spork]
heh, what's the file named?
00:59:33 [Spork]
It might have loaded a special editing mode and does white spaces when you don't want it :/
00:59:51 [Spork]
This is what i have now:
00:59:54 [Spork]
Description of project
00:59:54 [Spork]
Benefit to Cablevision
00:59:54 [Spork]
How's cablevision experience helping you professionally
00:59:59 [Spork]
ack
01:01:29 [davb]
it was an sql file. don't think so. I hit a key that did it.
01:25:31 [talli]
talli has joined #openacs
01:25:37 [talli]
hey guys
01:25:44 [talli]
andrew, you found it!
01:25:44 [davb]
hi talli!
01:25:53 [talli]
hey dave
01:26:29 [andrew]
yeah, it was really bugging me so I worked on it tonight.
01:26:34 [andrew]
phew!
01:26:43 [andrew]
That's a load off my back.
01:27:05 [talli]
it's a load off of *all* of our backs!
01:27:06 [talli]
good work!
01:29:03 [Spork]
Hey talli
01:29:15 [talli]
hey spork
01:29:25 [Spork]
* Spork gets pointy and attentive
01:29:55 [Spork]
OH!
01:30:05 [Spork]
talli you're a boss :) wanna check something out? hehe
01:30:19 [talli]
haha. no.
01:30:24 [talli]
Spork: you're fired
01:30:26 [Spork]
don't worry it's quick
01:30:29 [Spork]
yeah soon to be
01:30:37 [Spork]
that comes in the beginning of next month
01:30:43 [Spork]
around 7th or 9th of November
01:30:55 [Spork]
Demo time!
01:30:56 [Spork]
hehe
01:31:02 [talli]
go ahead
01:31:03 [talli]
shoot
01:31:06 [Spork]
ok
01:31:09 [Spork]
this is more of an outline
01:31:11 [Spork]
Description of project
01:31:12 [Spork]
Benefit to Cablevision
01:31:20 [Spork]
How's cablevision experience helping you professionally
01:31:24 [talli]
send it talli@museatech.net
01:31:26 [Spork]
acl
01:31:30 [Spork]
it keeps trying ot message dave
01:31:32 [Spork]
lol
01:31:34 [Spork]
ok
01:32:05 [Spork]
sent
01:32:38 [talli]
it's going through the internet... i haven't received it yet...
01:33:37 [Spork]
heh
01:33:42 [Spork]
try now
01:33:48 [talli]
still haven't received it yet...
01:34:04 [talli]
ok, got it. reading...
01:34:09 [Spork]
k
01:34:25 [talli]
some questions ...
01:34:29 [Spork]
shoot
01:34:30 [talli]
who is this for?
01:34:33 [Spork]
my boss
01:34:38 [Spork]
now, my question
01:34:43 [talli]
what are you trying to do?
01:35:04 [Spork]
seeing how he gave me two papers on how to write this...Should I point out the 4 spelling and 1 grammar mistake on them to him? In the most obnoxios way?
01:35:17 [talli]
uh... yes... wait - no
01:35:20 [Spork]
lol
01:35:22 [Spork]
Too badf
01:35:27 [Spork]
I would have had fun with that
01:35:31 [talli]
what are you trying to do? what are you trying to say?
01:35:32 [Spork]
Get the fattest red marker I could find
01:35:39 [Spork]
Status report of sorts
01:35:53 [Spork]
From the piece of paper he gave me
01:35:55 [Spork]
Steps
01:36:12 [talli]
did you write this for him?
01:36:16 [Spork]
1. Write an outline for each section. At least 3 statements supported by 3 bullet points
01:36:23 [talli]
ok
01:36:23 [Spork]
2. Convert outline to composition form
01:36:38 [Spork]
3. validate correctness of information, check grammer and punciations
01:36:56 [Spork]
4. have mentor provide confirming cover document
01:37:07 [talli]
that seems reasonable
01:37:16 [Spork]
ok, what I e-mailed you is part 1
01:37:22 [talli]
ok
01:37:28 [Spork]
less 3 bullet points to support each statement
01:37:44 [davb]
whats the escape char in a regexp for a space?
01:37:46 [talli]
ah, you need 3 point per statement,huh?
01:37:47 [talli]
whoa
01:37:56 [Spork]
uh huh
01:38:16 [Spork]
I don't understand why I have to justify the assignment my boss assigned me but I'll dance to his music I suppose
01:38:52 [talli]
well, he may be asking you to confirm that you fully understand the project.
01:39:09 [talli]
and have recognized the subtleties and details of the project
01:39:16 [Spork]
I don't like this project but not like I have much of a choice hehe
01:41:43 [Spork]
So, how's the outline?
01:42:03 [talli]
i think it's good
01:42:45 [talli]
the trick here, though, is to get slightly more detailed on each level
01:42:55 [Spork]
You mean for sub-bullets?
01:42:58 [talli]
otherwise you have nothing to say when you get farther down
01:42:59 [talli]
yes
01:43:12 [talli]
so, for instance, rather than say
01:43:25 [talli]
"merging technologies with development source"
01:43:34 [talli]
you just have that part be technology
01:43:39 [talli]
then you say:
01:43:53 [talli]
* existing technology =
01:44:01 [talli]
* open source technology =
01:44:14 [talli]
* problem is to merge these two
01:44:25 [talli]
then, for user management you say:
01:44:32 [talli]
* problem =
01:44:43 [talli]
* i needed to do =
01:44:50 [talli]
* proposed solution =
01:45:03 [talli]
etc.
01:45:11 [Spork]
ah
01:45:13 [Spork]
I c
01:45:16 [talli]
that way you'll get through everything you need to do
01:45:17 [Spork]
I'll work on that
01:45:35 [talli]
it's pretty simple
01:45:41 [talli]
just think OOP
01:45:45 [talli]
it's the same idea
01:45:52 [talli]
abstract at the top, detail in the beginning
01:45:55 [talli]
same bullshit
01:46:32 [Spork]
Affirmative
01:47:57 [Spork]
Is it ok to repeat things?
01:48:10 [Spork]
Like some of the stuff from the top is applicable in the "benefits" section
01:50:38 [Spork]
* Spork pokes talli
01:50:51 [talli]
hey, sorry
01:50:59 [talli]
yeah, i think it's ok
01:51:07 [Spork]
ok
01:51:15 [talli]
there are enough words in english to be able to say things differently, though
01:51:16 [Spork]
I'm making swift progress
01:51:29 [Spork]
Well, english is not my native language
01:53:51 [talli]
i bet there are enough words in russian too
01:53:53 [talli]
make it happen
01:53:58 [Spork]
IN russian? ok!
01:53:59 [talli]
use google translator or something
01:54:03 [Spork]
lol
01:54:09 [Spork]
Can I translate it to farsi?
01:54:38 [Spork]
Oh the joy of handing in my status report to my boss in Farsi
01:55:52 [davb]
no sweedish chef!
01:55:59 [Spork]
hah!
01:56:03 [Spork]
sweedish would work too
01:56:36 [davb]
or Elmer Fudd
01:56:41 [Spork]
:)
01:56:54 [davb]
Heh, they have Hacker also. I wonder what that would say.
01:57:54 [Spork]
Ok, how do I say "Having a boss" in a "professional" manner
01:58:07 [Spork]
without using demeaning words or derogatory statements
02:00:51 [Spork]
anyone?
02:02:21 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
02:02:24 [davb]
thats a tough one.
02:02:31 [davb]
Receiving supervision?
02:02:36 [Spork]
aha!
02:02:40 [Spork]
or lack thereof
02:03:06 [Spork]
Hierarchial supervision
02:03:07 [Spork]
?
02:03:57 [Spork]
ok
02:04:00 [Spork]
here's another one
02:04:11 [Spork]
I would say Multiple project management
02:04:21 [Spork]
but I have one main project and small things that I had to try on the side
02:05:14 [davb]
Managing multiple priorities?
02:05:23 [Spork]
good one!
02:05:27 [Spork]
* Spork gives dave a beer
02:05:47 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
02:06:46 [Spork]
What about time management
02:07:08 [davb]
hmmmm....
02:07:40 [Spork]
I'm almost done :) then talli might be kind enough to take a second look at the stuph
02:07:45 [davb]
utilizing effective time manangement techniques to balance multiple priorities?
02:07:52 [Spork]
nah
02:08:02 [davb]
I win buzzword bingo!
02:08:12 [Spork]
that's kinda like "Project deadlines"
02:08:19 [Spork]
but yes, you win buzzword bingo!
02:08:25 [davb]
how do I search for a newline in emacs?
02:08:30 [Spork]
umm
02:08:44 [Spork]
I would guess ctl+s \n
02:08:53 [Spork]
but I could be very wrong =)
02:09:55 [Spork]
asha
02:09:56 [Spork]
aha
02:09:58 [Spork]
rather...
02:10:00 [davb]
I tried that. it matched n
02:10:05 [Spork]
hmm
02:10:16 [Spork]
Did you try " " around it?
02:10:20 [davb]
anyway. nope.
02:10:25 [Spork]
How do I incorporate this:
02:10:33 [Spork]
reading work related materials at home
02:10:33 [davb]
is this in the benefits to you sections?
02:10:37 [Spork]
yeah
02:10:54 [Spork]
aha!
02:10:56 [Spork]
I got one
02:10:56 [Spork]
lol
02:10:57 [davb]
Ok. Using time management to realize project goals?
02:11:08 [Spork]
It's not really time management but "Paycheck" rofl
02:11:17 [Spork]
Timely paycheck retrieval
02:11:31 [Spork]
Very beneficial
02:11:41 [davb]
to you yes.
02:11:50 [Spork]
How's cablevision experience helping you professionally
02:11:58 [Spork]
It's paying me for my time
02:11:59 [Spork]
lol
02:12:08 [davb]
thats professional.
02:12:14 [Spork]
indeed it is
02:12:32 [Spork]
But is it the right thing to write? lol
02:12:37 [davb]
probably not.
02:12:38 [davb]
OK.
02:13:12 [Spork]
hmmmm
02:13:15 [Spork]
Any suggestions?
02:13:35 [davb]
learn to organize tasks and priorities? or did we already use that one?
02:13:54 [davb]
Learn to program OpenACS/AOLserver/Tcl which will get you a job just about anywhere?
02:14:23 [Spork]
How do you figure the last one?
02:14:36 [davb]
that is sarcasm i think... :)
02:16:42 [rbm]
rbm has joined #openacs
02:17:00 [Spork]
how about sub-system implementation management in a timely fashion?
02:18:57 [davb]
hmmmm....
02:19:13 [davb]
ARGH. \n is supposed to match a newline. Maybe its not newline after all.
02:19:24 [Spork]
heh
02:19:25 [davb]
looks like one. but of course, they're invisible.
02:19:30 [Spork]
right ;)
02:19:41 [Spork]
there is a way to turn the visibility on I think
02:20:22 [Spork]
dave, what do you think of the sub-system implementation?
02:20:52 [davb]
in the benefits to you part?
02:20:55 [Spork]
yeah
02:21:14 [Spork]
I think it works
02:21:26 [davb]
how about "task" or "project"
02:21:43 [Spork]
sub-project doesn't sound as nice as sub-system
02:22:28 [Spork]
how about sub-system reogranization to speed up the implementation process
02:22:39 [davb]
not bad.
02:23:05 [adler]
adler has joined #openacs
02:23:09 [Spork]
wb
02:23:34 [Spork]
* Spork pokes talli
02:23:42 [adler]
cheers
02:23:53 [Spork]
Coors!
02:24:48 [rbm]
* rbm pokes #openacs
02:24:59 [Spork]
Spork is now known as openacs
02:25:05 [openacs]
* openacs pokes rbm back
02:25:08 [openacs]
openacs is now known as Spork
02:25:29 [adler]
it all makes for great stories to tell my grandkids
02:25:44 [Spork]
adler what does?
02:26:25 [adler]
my irc experiences
02:26:27 [davb]
argh. I keep asking how to do something in emacs in #linux and everyone says to use a different app.
02:26:40 [Spork]
hah
02:26:43 [davb]
I don't need to install/learn another app. I just need to strip out 600 or so extra newlines
02:26:44 [rbm]
* rbm acts poked
02:26:46 [Spork]
What app? eVIl
02:26:54 [adler]
meta-x-do sometime
02:27:02 [davb]
no. awk tr
02:27:06 [Spork]
oh
02:27:08 [Spork]
awk is useful
02:27:29 [davb]
Yeah, but I don't want to learn it to do this one thing... emacs should just do it.
02:27:30 [Spork]
You can use regexps to parse the input file and rewrite an output file
02:27:36 [Spork]
sed does a similar function
02:27:53 [adler]
s/\n{2,}/\n/
02:28:03 [Spork]
Well, Dave, this is what separates a genius Unix user from an average shmoe
02:28:20 [davb]
oh yeah. I am a genius shmoe though, what do i do?
02:28:28 [Spork]
:) not to say I'm a genius because sed and awk are beyond me as well
02:28:33 [davb]
thanks adler.
02:29:17 [adler]
what can i say? it's from one schmoe to another
02:29:35 [davb]
will that work in emacs?
02:29:54 [davb]
nevermind...
02:29:57 [talli]
hey
02:29:59 [adler]
no
02:30:01 [Spork]
Dave, have you tried jEdit?
02:30:08 [Spork]
talli
02:30:13 [adler]
er, I don't know emacs regexs
02:30:16 [Spork]
can you look at the new and improved status report?
02:30:19 [talli]
sure
02:30:21 [talli]
send it over
02:30:23 [Spork]
adler , I think they use the same ones as perl
02:30:32 [davb]
oh yes. In fact I have EVERY editor know to man installed. I am going to delete each newline with a different program :)
02:30:49 [adler]
spork that strikes me as simply too appropriate
02:31:00 [docwolf]
docwolf has joined #openacs
02:31:03 [davb]
no they are different enough to screw you up.
02:31:15 [davb]
hi docwolf
02:31:27 [Spork]
Sent
02:31:28 [Spork]
hi docwolf
02:31:29 [adler]
davb - i will write the windows port which use 2x apps to delete the cr/lf
02:31:39 [Spork]
did you ever find out your vcr to digital media dilemma
02:31:40 [davb]
cool!
02:32:13 [docwolf]
howdy
02:32:20 [docwolf]
i've given up
02:32:25 [Spork]
awww
02:32:25 [docwolf]
i'm going to build a GarbageClone
02:32:36 [Spork]
adler , what looks too appropriate?
02:32:39 [docwolf]
and just stick in a crummy card
02:32:53 [talli]
Spork: looks great to me
02:32:57 [Spork]
cool
02:33:09 [Spork]
any suggestions on the part i have left with just -'s?
02:33:18 [Spork]
I think it would be identical to the above item
02:33:37 [adler]
spork - that all apps/langs would use consisten regexps
02:33:42 [Spork]
Ah
02:33:48 [Spork]
Well, wishful thinking, what can I say
02:34:00 [adler]
you can start with an apology
02:34:11 [Spork]
* Spork apologizes
02:34:16 [Spork]
I'm sorry ;(
02:34:20 [Spork]
* Spork hangs his head
02:34:32 [adler]
now go right davb a oneliner
02:34:41 [Spork]
?
02:34:43 [jerryasher]
jerryasher has joined #openacs
02:34:53 [Spork]
hey it's the person I've been waiting to bug :P
02:35:12 [Spork]
It's Mista Jerry Asher from The Asher Group...quick, everyone hide!
02:35:15 [jerryasher]
whuh me?
02:35:24 [jerryasher]
What does that mean?
02:35:26 [Spork]
* Spork hides inside a beer bottle
02:35:45 [jerryasher]
* jerryasher damnit I finally get a surprise but it's on irc
02:35:46 [Spork]
Sorry I didn't reply to the e-mail :)
02:36:04 [adler]
davb - what solution are you going after?
02:36:36 [davb]
hit end .... hit delete
02:36:48 [davb]
I am done. 600+ lines down to 135
02:37:07 [davb]
I did get rid of the 79 spaces between each word automatically so its still a win.
02:37:08 [Spork]
Anyone know how to destroy queries in BitchX?
02:37:20 [davb]
hey jerry
02:37:38 [jerryasher]
hi
02:37:47 [davb]
yeah. I need to learn Perl enough to do this.
02:38:04 [Spork]
Jerry, you about to run off somewhere or can I bug you now?
02:38:29 [davb]
I forgot I had a good one-liner to do a s/// regexp replace. It works on all the files in a folder too.
02:38:29 [jerryasher]
Nope, I'm here, although when last we talked via email....
02:38:53 [Spork]
yes?
02:38:54 [jerryasher]
you had decided I didn't quite understand. that so, maybe we should speak via at&t
02:39:03 [jerryasher]
instead of irc
02:39:04 [Spork]
at&t?
02:39:15 [jerryasher]
they used to be involved in the phone system
02:39:23 [Spork]
oh....har har har :P
02:39:44 [Spork]
Well, this is fine for now...I think I can do a better job of explaining if I do it from the top
02:39:55 [jerryasher]
please do!
02:39:58 [Spork]
:)
02:40:05 [Spork]
Am I gonna get billed ? hehehe
02:40:13 [Spork]
j/k
02:40:16 [jerryasher]
I dunno, can I?
02:40:25 [jerryasher]
Or rather, would you pay?
02:40:36 [davb]
Ok for future reference. To cut and paste from emacs to another X app use M-w in emacs and the 3rd mouse button in the other app to paste.
02:40:36 [Spork]
if I had the power, sure!
02:40:40 [Spork]
but I'm just an intern
02:41:16 [Spork]
Ok, so here's the problem and a possible solution as well, since i had some time to find a way to solve the problem
02:45:35 [adler]
this better be good...
02:46:18 [Spork]
Heh
02:46:27 [Spork]
I was typing in a query for Jerry
02:47:41 [jerryasher]
email is 30 years old -- i've had an email address for 23 years. This IRC/AIM stuff is weird.
02:48:17 [Spork]
nonsense
02:48:20 [Spork]
AIM is easy
02:48:25 [Spork]
IRC is a bit harder but easy too ;)
02:49:03 [davb]
http://www.devwebpro.com/2001/0810.html
02:49:16 [davb]
argh. gotta restart chump again.
02:49:32 [chump]
chump has joined #openacs
02:49:37 [davb]
http://www.devwebpro.com/2001/0810.html
02:49:37 [chump]
E: http://www.devwebpro.com/2001/0810.html from davb
02:49:44 [davb]
E:|Perl One-Liners
02:49:44 [chump]
titled item E
02:51:38 [adler]
when does it show up on the blog?
02:51:57 [adler]
now
02:52:10 [davb]
heh. It runs every minute or so.
02:55:18 [rbm]
Hmmm. Looks like another guy wrote the MP3 Jukebox software I was writing
02:55:24 [rbm]
But he did it in Perl with MySQL
02:56:30 [davb]
What are you using?
02:56:45 [rbm]
davb: I'm using all C software
02:58:05 [rbm]
mpg123 as player, LCDD to talk to the LCD, IRMP3 to control everything.
02:58:16 [adler]
davb - how's that oneliner? i remain curious
02:58:20 [davb]
Sounds good.
02:58:41 [adler]
rbm are you looking at route66?
02:58:46 [rbm]
I wrote a C module for IRMP3 that saves the last song/list played and where in the song it was last played (so that when I reboot it restarts from the same point)
02:58:50 [rbm]
adler: Yes.
02:58:53 [davb]
I didn;t try it, It is similar to the one I used before that works on all the files in a directory.
02:59:03 [davb]
rbm: neat
02:59:15 [rbm]
IRMP3 is actually very nice C code.
02:59:44 [rbm]
My module started as a very small thing (100 lines) but I kept adding features, and it grew to > 500 lines of C code.
02:59:52 [adler]
i'll wait till theey embed an interpreted lang ;)
03:00:10 [rbm]
adler: Who and what for?
03:01:04 [rbm]
Now a car MP3 player would be an application where MySQL would fit very well. It's so critical that it requires all the power of MySQL.
03:01:18 [adler]
rbm: whatcha got? (I'm just adding noise...) seriously - is it necessary to implement in C?
03:02:00 [rbm]
adler: IRMP3 is all C. Therefore I had to write the module in C.
03:02:56 [til]
til has quit
03:03:01 [til]
til has joined #openacs
03:03:05 [rbm]
I didn't try to do anything in Perl or Python because my jukebox is a tiny P100 with 50 Mb of RAM.
03:03:58 [davb]
that would do it.
03:04:14 [davb]
How will that do on playback. Is it fast enough?
03:04:15 [adler]
rbm - have any pictures?
03:04:23 [rbm]
davb: It does it very well.
03:04:32 [talli]
rbm: it seems that aD created some templates for DocBook XML creation
03:04:34 [rbm]
http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/jukebox/
03:04:34 [chump]
F: http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/jukebox/ from rbm
03:04:42 [talli]
unfortunately, they no longer appear to be available
03:04:43 [rbm]
F:|rbm's JukeBox Pages
03:04:43 [chump]
titled item F
03:04:48 [rbm]
It needs some updating
03:06:39 [rbm]
This is interesting ->> http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/jukebox/images/wiring-db9.jpg
03:06:58 [adler]
nice screenshouts :)
03:07:25 [rbm]
Yeah, I need to fix that (screenshouts) :-)
03:08:00 [rbm]
I have a small ReiserFS partition, the only that's mounted RW. All others are mounted RO.
03:09:29 [rbm]
It's very nice to have all that music in the car. But searching is a pain, and that's what is attracting me to that guy's setup
03:09:52 [rbm]
It's not really a pain, but it's not nice.
03:10:03 [adler]
i caught wiff of it off of the slashdot page, but really have no familiarity with that stuff.
03:10:32 [rbm]
Whatever you do, DO NOT use the OSS drivers. ALSA sounds 1000s of times better.
03:11:20 [adler]
I'm more likely to pick up a nomad.. any thoughts on portables?
03:11:26 [rbm]
$$$$
03:11:33 [rbm]
That's what I didn't have.
03:11:52 [rbm]
s/didn't/don't/
03:12:24 [talli]
does anybody have any idea why there are so many trolling racists on slashdot?
03:12:46 [rbm]
talli: Because 99% of /.'ers are complete idiots
03:12:55 [Spork]
yup!
03:12:59 [docwolf]
talli: you should browse at +2
03:13:01 [talli]
i guess so. it's really upsetting at times
03:13:02 [docwolf]
minimum.
03:13:06 [talli]
is that how you do it?
03:13:22 [docwolf]
yeah. slashdot becomes far less nauseating at +2 and above.
03:13:24 [talli]
all right
03:13:58 [rbm]
I almost never look at the posts anymore. They are mostly a complete waste of time to read.
03:14:13 [talli]
yes, they are sometimes
03:14:41 [docwolf]
does anyone understand why mozilla is taking so long to come out with 1.0? The latest build seems pretty good to me...
03:14:44 [talli]
but i must admit i submitted a story that got published to slashdot one time and some of the repsonses were *really* interesting
03:14:49 [rbm]
HOLY CRAP!
03:14:51 [docwolf]
this seems like a marketing blunder of the highest order.
03:15:12 [talli]
mozilla 0.9.5 crapped out on me already today
03:15:13 [rbm]
The Nomad costs $399! I built my MP3 Jukebox for $150 and it's much more expandadle with a much better interface
03:15:19 [talli]
rbm: what happened?
03:15:26 [Spork]
talli any suggestions on how to fill in that gap I have for Statistical Information?
03:15:36 [rbm]
(but it's much larger in size too)
03:15:39 [Spork]
iut's very similar to the entry above for Modem Statistics
03:15:40 [talli]
umm... run an excel spreadsheet?
03:15:55 [docwolf]
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/5784.shtml
03:15:55 [chump]
G: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/5784.shtml from docwolf
03:16:02 [adler]
$150 for the nomad $60 for 128MB flash (so cheap)
03:16:09 [docwolf]
this is better than the nomad (as far as pre-built players go)
03:16:13 [talli]
it's always good to simply say, "it's the same thing as above, and here's why"
03:16:16 [davb]
I am using 0.9.5 on Win98 and Debian.
03:16:22 [rbm]
Is that the 20 Gb Nomad?
03:16:46 [rbm]
20 Gb Nomad: http://www.americas.creative.com/shopcart/welcome.asp?SKU=126
03:16:49 [adler]
32mb
03:16:54 [docwolf]
i'm using 0.9.5 on win2k... no crashes.. ever. I also disable pop-ups, etc.. so maybe that helps
03:16:57 [rbm]
What's the flash for?
03:17:22 [Spork]
ok
03:17:31 [Spork]
I guess I will try the "It's the same as above routine"
03:17:37 [rbm]
adler: That URL you posted is not for the nomad.
03:17:49 [adler]
personally, i like tiny toys. the 128mb is for a decent ammount of memory in my pocket.
03:18:04 [adler]
what url?
03:18:29 [rbm]
adler: Yes, but I wanted something for my car, so I wouldn't have to carry my CDs around everywhere.
03:18:32 [adler]
docwolfs?
03:18:33 [talli]
are mp3s really that great?
03:18:43 [rbm]
Oh, it was docwolf who posted it.
03:18:54 [rbm]
talli: MP3s aren't. Music is :)
03:19:06 [talli]
true enough.
03:19:15 [talli]
i guess if you could hack something into your car, that would be cool
03:19:36 [talli]
rbm: did you get that note about the aD docbook templates?
03:20:02 [rbm]
talli: what note?
03:20:02 [adler]
talli- moreover, it's nice to dream of a world where we can access music on demand, not via plastic discs
03:20:05 [talli]
they have the docbook primer up (which we should snag) but apparently have taken down the xml templates
03:20:35 [talli]
rbm: i mentioned something above about aD and their docbook templates, which would be really nice to reuse.
03:20:55 [talli]
adler: that's true. but i simply am to lazy to rip all my music to mp3
03:20:56 [rbm]
talli on the bboards?
03:21:15 [talli]
http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/eng-standards.html
03:21:15 [chump]
H: http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/eng-standards.html from talli
03:21:17 [rbm]
It's almost a full-time job to keep up with openacs posts these days
03:21:20 [rbm]
Which rocks :)
03:21:30 [talli]
H: aD Documentation stuff
03:21:30 [chump]
commented item H
03:21:41 [talli]
H: In particular, pay attention to DocBook primer
03:21:41 [chump]
commented item H
03:21:51 [talli]
H: but they've taken down the XML templates
03:21:51 [chump]
commented item H
03:22:06 [rbm]
WOW! Attacks to the USU network dropped by 90% after Sep. 11th
03:22:08 [talli]
H: then again, they're probably somewhere in the documentation
03:22:08 [chump]
commented item H
03:22:25 [rbm]
* rbm starts wgetting
03:22:27 [adler]
tailil - that would take some dedication-- but consider the labor of n people schlepping n^2 discs. in the network, labor is conserved
03:23:37 [rbm]
Our computer services folks moved all USU DNS to Linux boxen, and also have a snort box scanning everything, and inserting traffic into PostgreSQL
03:23:52 [adler]
the math is wrong, but the conservation is correct
03:23:58 [talli]
that's true.
03:24:20 [talli]
but i never used napster because i didn't trust anyone else's computer, nor did i dare let them access my computer
03:24:30 [talli]
and i was just too fucking lazy to download napster
03:25:43 [adler]
what if I were to give you an ftp account to 1000 of my CD's?
03:26:03 [rbm]
adler: That would make me interesting :)
03:26:09 [davb]
heh
03:26:15 [docwolf]
i am logging all of this & sending it to the RIAA
03:26:34 [adler]
tonight i propose the piracy package-- aka the 'fair-use' package
03:26:42 [rbm]
But I only download music that I already payed for, but either lost the CD, or it got scratched, or I'm lazy to rip.
03:26:52 [davb]
right.
03:27:15 [davb]
no sarcasm intended there...
03:28:04 [docwolf]
heh
03:28:07 [docwolf]
http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/napsterbad/napsterbad_56k.html
03:28:08 [chump]
I: http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/napsterbad/napsterbad_56k.html from docwolf
03:28:58 [adler]
I've done some simple mp3 sharing via apache. it would be great to hack something uses the permissioning of OACS to provide to the comunity...
03:28:59 [davb]
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03:29:01 [davb]
it works.
03:29:07 [davb]
I fixed static_page__delete.
03:29:14 [rbm]
* rbm taps davb on the back
03:29:32 [davb]
I also broke it... three days ago.
03:29:56 [rbm]
As long as you fix it, that's part of the process :)
03:30:19 [davb]
but I learned how content_items, content_revisions, etc work in the process.
03:30:24 [adler]
rbm: hows that roadmap coming along?
03:31:20 [rbm]
adler: L
03:31:22 [rbm]
s/L/?/
03:32:26 [adler]
the docs roadmap...?
03:32:39 [rbm]
adler: oh. working on it.
03:33:31 [adler]
humor me- what is it going to provide, generally speaking..
03:33:40 [rbm]
adler: That's a secret
03:33:41 [rbm]
:)
03:33:58 [adler]
secrets can be fun..
03:34:08 [rbm]
adler: Basically what we need to work on for documentation, by priority, assignments, tools, etc.
03:34:20 [Spork]
* Spork is back
03:34:48 [jerryasher]
* jerryasher So Spork do what I said, take the antibiotics for 10 days, and it should no longer sting when you pee
03:34:53 [davb]
I: hahahaha!
03:34:53 [chump]
commented item I
03:35:01 [adler]
hahah
03:35:44 [rbm]
Hmmmm.
03:35:49 [adler]
rbm - i talked with vinod about some ways to improved the 'brief' install docs and decided I'm interested to help out where I can...
03:35:54 [rbm]
How do I tell wget to only mirror under a certain directory?
03:36:16 [rbm]
adler: Good. I've been swamped with some stuff
03:37:13 [davb]
i just did that hang on....
03:37:37 [Spork]
Heh
03:38:11 [davb]
-np
03:38:15 [davb]
no parent.
03:38:23 [davb]
Otherwise it searches UP and down.
03:38:33 [Spork]
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011025/tc/msn_com_shuts_out_non-microsoft_browsers_1.html
03:38:33 [chump]
J: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011025/tc/msn_com_shuts_out_non-microsoft_browsers_1.html from Spork
03:38:42 [Spork]
J:| Bill Gates thinks he owns the world
03:38:43 [chump]
titled item J
03:39:01 [Spork]
J: Bill gates deserves a kick in the ass for blocking other legit browsers from accessing MSN.com
03:39:01 [chump]
commented item J
03:39:04 [rbm]
M$'s excuse that it locks browsers out because of lack of standards-compliance is such a piece of crap!
03:39:07 [davb]
J: Spork thinks Bills Gates does not own the world.
03:39:08 [chump]
commented item J
03:39:15 [Spork]
Eh?
03:39:24 [adler]
adler has left #openacs
03:39:25 [docwolf]
it is my belief that MS is about to be taken to task financially.
03:39:27 [adler]
adler has joined #openacs
03:39:29 [Spork]
J:
03:39:29 [chump]
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011025/tc/msn_com_shuts_out_non-microsoft_browsers_1.html
03:39:30 [chump]
Bill Gates thinks he owns the world
03:39:31 [chump]
(Spork) Bill gates deserves a kick in the ass for blocking other legit browsers from accessing MSN.com
03:39:32 [chump]
(davb) Spork thinks Bills Gates does not own the world.
03:39:40 [davb]
Who wants to visit MSN.com??
03:39:45 [Spork]
Not I
03:39:46 [rbm]
Okay, enough playing with chump.
03:40:32 [Spork]
talli still with the living?
03:40:43 [talli]
yeah, but about to go to the other side
03:40:44 [adler]
has anyone used newegg.com?
03:40:46 [talli]
what's up?
03:40:46 [Spork]
Ah
03:40:49 [Spork]
yes I have
03:40:52 [Spork]
newegg.com ROCKS!
03:41:01 [adler]
the price is right...
03:41:02 [Spork]
have a quick question for you
03:41:06 [davb]
someone at work said they are very good.
03:41:26 [talli]
talli has quit
03:41:31 [Spork]
talking about prices...lol...One reason why CV should continue my employment is that my salary is by bah!
03:41:38 [Spork]
why he leave like that :(
03:41:46 [Spork]
Dave, I pushed newegg.com on you before
03:41:53 [Spork]
You sure "work" wasn't "irc"
03:41:54 [Spork]
lol
03:42:07 [adler]
i just picked up a ibm 60gxp
03:42:10 [Spork]
adler newegg.com is really good
03:42:12 [docwolf]
wow. newegg looks cheap
03:42:35 [Spork]
yeah, their prices are supercheap, they ship FedEx and the stuff usually arrives in 2-3 days even cross country
03:42:44 [Spork]
and they have good ratings everywhere
03:43:00 [Spork]
I turn to them first thing when looking for hardware and willing to wait a few days
03:43:39 [adler]
mom's getting linux and she's none the wiser :)
03:43:42 [docwolf]
may i ask an ignorant motherboard question?
03:43:46 [davb]
nope, guy at work ALSO endorsed newegg
03:43:47 [Spork]
hahahaha
03:43:48 [davb]
heh
03:43:53 [davb]
Mozilla mail is not bad.
03:44:10 [davb]
Go ahead.
03:44:18 [Spork]
My mom came by a while back and pointed at my screen and said "Unix?"
03:44:22 [adler]
yeah, I've plenthy of ignorant answers..
03:44:35 [Spork]
lol
03:44:37 [Spork]
Me too
03:44:56 [rbm]
Spork: Wow. Your mom is pretty smart.
03:45:01 [Spork]
har har
03:45:06 [rbm]
My mom wouldn't have even looked at the screen.
03:45:13 [rbm]
She's a technophobic.
03:45:21 [Spork]
lol
03:45:52 [Spork]
I'm thinking what OS to torture her with....Windows XP or BSD/Linux
03:45:57 [docwolf]
i'm looking for an ATX motherboard that fits in a small ATX case
03:46:04 [Spork]
ok
03:46:18 [Spork]
you need to find out what ATX sizes your case fits
03:46:29 [Spork]
I think the ratings are: microATX, baby ATX, ATX
03:46:46 [Spork]
Some cases will fit all 3, some will only fit micro and baby and some will only fit micro
03:47:09 [Spork]
let me ask you a question
03:47:21 [Spork]
is this for an athlon processor and what speed?
03:48:01 [docwolf]
i'm guessing an athlon
03:48:05 [Spork]
ok
03:48:09 [Spork]
any idea on the speed?
03:48:14 [rbm]
Who's buying me an Athlon?
03:48:16 [docwolf]
but heat is an issue... I know VIA makes a really cool-running chip
03:48:38 [docwolf]
hey, i already bought you an athlon ;-)
03:48:42 [davb]
Its time for me to go.
03:48:43 [Spork]
under 1.4 you can get away with a 350 or 300W P/S if you get 1.4 or 1.8 I strongly recommend a 400W P/S
03:48:47 [Spork]
ok, good night dave
03:48:57 [rbm]
* rbm kicks davb :)
03:49:03 [davb]
davb has quit
03:49:10 [Spork]
Also, I like roomy cases so if you can afford and fit a full sized ATX one, go for it
03:49:13 [rbm]
Wow. I have a powerful kick.
03:49:16 [Spork]
lol
03:50:09 [Spork]
nice roomy cases = lots of space to work with without getting cables in the way and there's lots of space to move air
03:50:15 [docwolf]
i wish i could... but the problem is i have a space issue.
03:50:22 [docwolf]
(this machine isn't for me...)
03:50:32 [Spork]
ok, then step down and see if a BabyATX one will work
03:50:47 [docwolf]
cool. thanks!
03:50:51 [Spork]
have you checked out http://www.slota.com or http://www.socketa.com
03:50:52 [rbm]
Nobody knows the answer for my wget question?
03:51:03 [Spork]
wget? Widget? Midget?
03:51:24 [Spork]
http://www.socketa.com
03:51:24 [chump]
K: http://www.socketa.com from Spork
03:51:44 [Spork]
K:| The definitive source for Athlon motherboard information
03:51:44 [chump]
titled item K
03:52:00 [Spork]
K: Reviews, comparisons, benchmarks, motherboard search engine
03:52:00 [chump]
commented item K
03:52:10 [rbm]
nope.
03:52:27 [Spork]
also check out http://www.aceshardware.com and http://www.tomshardware.com
03:52:35 [Spork]
they provide nice reviews and up to date news ;)
03:52:45 [docwolf]
sweet. thanks.
03:52:55 [docwolf]
ever try that low-power VIA as an alternative?
03:53:22 [Spork]
me?
03:53:28 [Spork]
nah, I haven't built a computer in 2 years
03:53:32 [Spork]
Maybe next year
03:53:58 [Spork]
I've got my eye on a Athlon MP setup :)
03:54:18 [Spork]
probably will be a 1.8Ghz Athlon MP setup by the time I'm ready
03:54:46 [Spork]
i still use an Athlon 550 for my daily computing and an Athlon 750 to play games
03:55:33 [docwolf]
it's amazing how fast even cheap garbage-dump machines have gotten
03:55:56 [Spork]
garbage-dump?
03:56:21 [docwolf]
yeah. like the kind you find in the back of computer shopper
03:56:24 [adler]
catch yall later
03:56:30 [Spork]
ok nite nite
03:56:36 [Spork]
oh
03:56:37 [Spork]
heh
03:56:43 [adler]
adler has quit
03:56:43 [Spork]
I dunno, I have a moral dilemma
03:57:04 [Spork]
Do I buy a notebook from Dell or do I go spend 1500$ on a top of the line screamer with "the works"
03:57:38 [Spork]
I dunno, I build for fun....I really don't need another computer yet
03:57:47 [Spork]
I don't even have a spot to plug it in
03:58:05 [Spork]
I already run 3 + a lot of accessories from one single jack
03:59:54 [Spork]
Can someone say "Fire hazard"?
04:00:08 [rbm]
Fire Hazard!
04:00:13 [Spork]
indeed!
04:06:10 [Spork]
arg
04:06:20 [Spork]
I need to figure out 1 more reason why CV should keep
04:06:21 [Spork]
me
04:07:03 [Spork]
Is Cheap labor a bad thing to write?
04:08:19 [rbm]
yeah
04:08:29 [Spork]
Well, then why would someone want to keep me
04:08:35 [rbm]
"A good bang for the buck"
04:08:47 [Spork]
Any alternative representations?
04:10:49 [Spork]
"Will work for food"
04:14:52 [Spork]
How about this
04:15:02 [Spork]
Retraining someone would be more expensive than to keep me
04:15:10 [Spork]
how do I write that in "professional" terms
04:16:21 [rbm]
The costs of retraining a new employee would add a significant overhead, both financially as time-wise.
04:16:45 [rbm]
hmm. Take the "both" out and replace "as" with "and"
04:17:47 [rbm]
and you could add ", giving that possibility a prohibitive cost"
04:18:06 [Spork]
Check this out:
04:18:13 [Spork]
-Benefits
04:18:25 [Spork]
-Benefits
04:18:31 [Spork]
-Retraining a replacement would cause unnecessary overhead financially
04:18:37 [Spork]
and time-wise
04:18:55 [Spork]
-Cost effectiveness
04:21:54 [Spork]
any ideas?
04:29:48 [Spork]
Wooooohooooooooo!
04:29:51 [Spork]
I got it!
04:29:53 [Spork]
lol
04:29:55 [Spork]
* Spork gets all happy
04:30:09 [Spork]
Roberto you still awake?
04:30:16 [Spork]
you'll like this one
04:30:44 [Spork]
-Unique knowledge of OpenACS internal structure(yeah right, I still don't know what's doing what) but it's true to some extent! hahaha
04:36:35 [Spork]
*sigh*
04:36:37 [Spork]
now it's beddy time
04:36:40 [Spork]
g'nite everyone
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* Spork wakes up
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13:14:50 [Spork]
hey dave
13:14:55 [davb]
Howdy
13:15:03 [Spork]
i better start getting ready for work :)
13:15:25 [Spork]
"Donuts! Is there anything to do?"
13:15:33 [Spork]
"It takes two to lie, one to line and one to listen!"
13:15:43 [Spork]
"mmmmm, invisible cola"
13:15:52 [Spork]
"You're out of order! The whole DAMN SYSTEM IS OUT OF ORDER!"
13:16:03 [Spork]
"Booooring"
13:16:07 [Spork]
:)
13:17:32 [davb]
what was that?
13:17:45 [Spork]
ummm
13:17:59 [Spork]
You WANT THE TRUTH? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!
13:18:03 [davb]
heh
13:18:19 [Spork]
Actually those were little blurbs homer simpson said at one point in time
13:18:31 [Spork]
And someone conveniently stuffed them into a song
13:19:27 [davb]
Cool.
13:20:48 [Spork]
Don't mind me :) i'm just a nut trying to make it in this eeeeVIl world
13:21:13 [davb]
darn, chump didn't make it back again...
13:21:24 [Spork]
kill him
13:21:32 [chump]
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13:21:40 [Spork]
Hi chimp
13:21:41 [davb]
no its the stupid DSL.
13:21:50 [Spork]
cable is bettah :)
13:21:54 [davb]
It went down twice last night after 11 or so.
13:22:25 [davb]
SDSL is better if you don't like to share. Usually it has been very reliable. Just the last couple of days have been bad.
13:22:35 [Spork]
oh well
13:22:36 [Spork]
anyways
13:22:41 [Spork]
I gotta go take a shower :)
13:22:43 [davb]
Maybe if I'm lucky these guys will go out of business too and send me another refund.
13:22:45 [Spork]
and then drive to work
13:23:01 [Spork]
bbl when at work
13:23:06 [Spork]
* Spork detaches
13:23:14 [Spork]
I'll have lotsa questions :)
13:23:16 [Spork]
bbl
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davb is now known as davb|meeting
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14:24:33 [davb|meeting]
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14:24:40 [davb]
Hi ola, markd2
14:24:50 [markd2]
greetings
14:25:45 [ola]
howdy
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14:37:49 [davb]
hi nkd.
14:38:12 [nkd]
hi dave
14:38:38 [nkd]
have you checked out the forums (rlocke reply to your message)
14:38:57 [davb]
Does anyone know how to debug an error in a web page as reported by IE? It says syntax error line 2.
14:39:15 [davb]
nkd: I think I saw that. Is he right about the error in the serach doc?
14:39:32 [davb]
I am pretty sure content_revision cannot be a subtype of a content_item.
14:39:39 [nkd]
i 'm not sure if the error is in the docs
14:39:46 [nkd]
I wrote that after Dan's suggestion
14:39:51 [davb]
Oh. I didn't read it anyway.
14:40:14 [nkd]
maybe we should try it and see what comes up. static-pages could be the test for that
14:40:17 [davb]
yet. that is my next step.
14:40:33 [nkd]
ok I will be online
14:40:42 [davb]
cool.
14:41:00 [nkd]
I have finally have some time to work on finishing the workflow package
14:41:14 [nkd]
i can't wait to try to integrate it with some packages
14:41:15 [nkd]
:)
14:42:37 [davb]
That should be interesting. I would like to use it with ETP to allow visitor submission of content that is then sent to a site admin for approval.
14:42:54 [nkd]
yes, that would be good
14:42:58 [markd2]
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14:43:54 [Spork]
back
14:44:00 [nkd]
hey spork
14:44:16 [Spork]
hey
14:44:25 [davb]
hiya spork
14:44:38 [nkd]
Spork: notes about rational rose
14:44:41 [Spork]
hey dave
14:44:46 [Spork]
oh yeah
14:44:57 [Spork]
My experience with it: confusing, interesting
14:45:03 [Spork]
useful eventually
14:45:06 [Spork]
code generation
14:45:26 [nkd]
no code generation
14:45:35 [nkd]
just for them (students) to learn the basics
14:45:39 [nkd]
have you got any links
14:46:10 [Spork]
FOr rational rose?
14:46:13 [nkd]
yeap
14:46:14 [Spork]
Not really
14:46:19 [nkd]
ok
14:46:29 [Spork]
I don't remember the book I was using
14:46:30 [Spork]
hang on
14:47:10 [Spork]
UML Explained by Kendall Scott, Addison-Wesley,
14:47:11 [Spork]
2001.
14:47:18 [nkd]
thanks
14:49:12 [Spork]
that's the book for UML
14:49:17 [Spork]
not directly tied in with RR
14:49:32 [Spork]
Nick :)
14:49:39 [Spork]
http://odl-skopje.etf.ukim.edu.mk/uml-help/
14:49:39 [chump]
A: http://odl-skopje.etf.ukim.edu.mk/uml-help/ from Spork
14:49:48 [Spork]
A:| UML Tutoral in 7 Days
14:49:48 [chump]
titled item A
14:49:55 [Spork]
A: Pretty good when you're just starting out
14:49:55 [chump]
commented item A
14:50:26 [nkd]
i have schash book and it looks good
14:51:07 [nkd]
unable to locate server, that's strange. Is it working for you?
14:51:48 [Spork]
no
14:51:54 [Spork]
it's not working but it did before
14:52:17 [nkd]
ok, i'll check later
14:53:21 [Spork]
yay!
14:53:32 [Spork]
You have been chosen as an alternate to interview with
14:53:33 [Spork]
Citigroup/Salomon Smith Barney on Tuesday, October 30, 2001
14:53:33 [Spork]
at the Career Center.
14:54:13 [davb]
Argh.
14:54:20 [davb]
Yahoo store is screwing me again.
14:54:38 [davb]
Wait. Maybe I can figure it out.
14:55:38 [nkd]
the bad thing about porting (the latest version of) an already ported package is that you still need to check previously ported queries.
14:56:09 [nkd]
...if they were affected by the changes
15:00:02 [davb]
fun.
15:00:09 [nkd]
:)
15:05:50 [davb]
important lesson: don't test your drop script in your developement directory!!
15:06:16 [davb]
There needs to be, uninstall from the database, but DON"T delete all the files option.
15:07:08 [davb]
I almost did that again...
15:08:25 [davb]
I think I need to have a seperate checkout for every package I am working on.
15:09:09 [Spork]
odd
15:09:15 [Spork]
not even loading pages
15:18:31 [Spork]
Dave get this
15:18:41 [Spork]
my boss did not like that 3rd thing either
15:18:59 [Spork]
He thought I played "word association" and threw buzzwords down
15:27:14 [Spork]
ok
15:27:30 [Spork]
I just put ns_log statements every 10 lines or so all the way to the end
15:27:41 [Spork]
up to ad_return_template and it still does not return
15:28:32 [Spork]
aha
15:28:38 [Spork]
probably needs an adp page to match
15:42:49 [Spork]
anyone alive?
15:42:56 [nkd]
:)
15:43:02 [davb]
hi.
15:43:04 [Spork]
I have a tcl script
15:43:08 [davb]
spork, isn't that what we did??
15:43:08 [Spork]
how can I execute it?
15:43:18 [Spork]
no not really
15:43:26 [Spork]
I actually did most of the things
15:43:35 [davb]
Well, yes thats true.
15:43:44 [davb]
Spork a standalone script? or for aolserver?
15:43:51 [Spork]
standalone tcl script
15:44:08 [Spork]
i will be exec'ing it later in an aol server script though
15:44:15 [davb]
tclsh scriptname I think.
15:44:16 [Spork]
need to test it out first though
15:44:29 [Spork]
and what if it takes arguments?
15:44:44 [nkd]
tclsh scriptname arguments
15:45:40 [Spork]
ok thanks
15:45:41 [Spork]
that works
15:47:37 [davb]
.
15:47:38 [davb]
0.
15:47:45 [davb]
oops
15:47:53 [davb]
iced tea spilled on the keyboard :)
15:48:26 [Spork]
ouch
15:51:29 [Spork]
what's wrong with this: set ping [exec qping.tcl $modem_ip $cmts_ip]
15:52:00 [Spork]
aha
15:52:26 [Spork]
no not it
15:53:33 [davb]
exec takes a list doesn't it?
15:54:00 [Spork]
no
15:54:18 [Spork]
My example says "set d [exec date]"
15:55:34 [davb]
ok
15:55:48 [Spork]
i'm trying to run a tcl script
15:55:54 [Spork]
in aol server
15:56:26 [Spork]
the script is in a qping.tcl
15:56:30 [davb]
right.
15:56:38 [Spork]
how do I fire it off?
15:57:03 [davb]
[exec tclsh qping.tcl $modem_up $cmts_ip]
15:57:12 [Spork]
that's what I did
15:57:20 [Spork]
couldn't read file "qping.tcl": no such file or directory
15:57:28 [davb]
You left out the tclsh
15:57:50 [davb]
qping.tcl is not executable
15:58:11 [Spork]
set ping [exec tclsh8.3 qping.tcl $modem_ip $cmts_ip]
15:58:13 [Spork]
that's what I have
15:58:29 [Spork]
couldn't read file "qping.tcl": no such file or directory
15:58:30 [Spork]
while executing
15:58:31 [Spork]
"exec tclsh8.3 qping.tcl $modem_ip $cmts_ip"
15:58:45 [davb]
oh. it can't find the file.
15:58:47 [davb]
hmmm
15:58:53 [Spork]
file is in the same dir
15:59:08 [davb]
put in the path. its probably execing from the aolserver/bin directory
15:59:31 [davb]
not the directory the tcl page is in.
15:59:33 [Spork]
thanks
15:59:49 [davb]
np.
16:01:22 [Spork]
hmmm
16:01:28 [Spork]
lindex var position
16:01:45 [davb]
its indexed starting at 0
16:02:19 [Spork]
right
16:02:32 [Spork]
so if i have this: Ping results: 10.158.134.27 9 9 9 9 9 167.206.252.201 2 2 2 2 2
16:02:43 [Spork]
Ping results: @ping@
16:02:54 [Spork]
And I'm trying to separate that
16:03:03 [Spork]
how do I grab the 9's
16:03:27 [davb]
is that a list or just a big string?
16:03:38 [Spork]
he's lappending so I'm guessing a list
16:03:43 [davb]
lrange $var 1 6
16:04:04 [davb]
I think that makes a new list.
16:04:16 [Spork]
here's the script
16:04:17 [Spork]
foreach ip $argv {
16:04:18 [Spork]
set pings {}
16:04:18 [Spork]
for {set i 0 } { $i <5 } { incr i } {
16:04:18 [Spork]
set pr [Tnm::icmp -timeout 1 -retries 1 echo $ip]
16:04:18 [Spork]
set rtt [lindex $pr 1]
16:04:19 [Spork]
lappend pings $rtt
16:04:21 [Spork]
}
16:04:23 [Spork]
puts "$ip $pings"
16:04:25 [Spork]
}
16:04:32 [Spork]
btw
16:04:42 [Spork]
I got selected for an interview with salomon smith barney =)
16:04:53 [davb]
cool. good luck.
16:04:57 [Spork]
thanks
16:05:14 [Spork]
in 4 days
16:05:34 [Spork]
so what does that script return?
16:05:37 [Spork]
a string or a list
16:05:44 [nkd]
excuse me for my ignorance: whos salomon smith barney?
16:05:50 [Spork]
lol
16:06:16 [Spork]
--> http://www.salomonsmithbarney.com/
16:06:37 [davb]
a list.
16:07:00 [Spork]
ok
16:07:01 [davb]
it returns a string.
16:07:04 [davb]
sorry.
16:07:06 [Spork]
heh ok
16:07:11 [Spork]
can I make it return a list instead?
16:07:14 [davb]
the list is expanded.
16:07:22 [davb]
Yes.
16:07:26 [Spork]
ok
16:07:38 [davb]
wait, i don't think so...
16:07:54 [Spork]
ok, how about converting it to a list?
16:08:03 [Spork]
can that be done?
16:08:17 [davb]
Maybe. its putting the output. But if you put it as {$ip {$pings}} or something like that
16:08:47 [davb]
then do set var [list $var_from_external_script] it should work.
16:08:53 [davb]
Did I lose you there?
16:08:56 [Spork]
a bit
16:08:58 [Spork]
hang on
16:09:13 [davb]
Actually thats a nested list. A list with IP and a list of pings.
16:09:44 [nkd]
didn't understand much beside that the site offers financial services.
16:09:59 [Spork]
that's what it is
16:10:00 [Spork]
lol
16:10:04 [Spork]
Except they're not a .gone
16:10:08 [davb]
remember. the output of the script is leaving tcl and going to stout
16:11:17 [Spork]
aha
16:11:39 [davb]
so you have to parse it inside aolserver.
16:12:48 [Spork]
{{10.158.134.27 {11 9 9 9 9}} {167.206.252.201 {2 2 2 2 2}}}
16:12:49 [Spork]
lol
16:14:21 [davb]
right. that is a list of nested lists each set of {} is a list. the elements are seperated by a space.
16:14:42 [Spork]
right
16:14:46 [Spork]
hang on
16:14:47 [davb]
you have two lists with a string and a list in each.
16:14:49 [davb]
k
16:15:40 [Spork]
aha!
16:17:08 [Spork]
ok I got a question for you
16:17:21 [Spork]
It is possible to have an arbitrary size list
16:17:25 [Spork]
ok
16:17:30 [Spork]
this is what I want to avoid
16:17:37 [Spork]
hardcoding the number of pings
16:17:42 [Spork]
right now it's 5 pings
16:18:02 [Spork]
if the qping.tcl changes to use 15 pings
16:18:07 [davb]
ok. right. You can do llength [list $list of pings]
16:18:14 [Spork]
aha
16:18:15 [Spork]
ok
16:18:21 [Spork]
So it is possible
16:18:25 [Spork]
That's all I wanted to know
16:18:31 [davb]
or just foreach $list_of_pings { do something with the pings }
16:18:34 [Spork]
Right now I'm prototyping so it's not the important part
16:18:38 [talli]
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16:18:42 [Spork]
Hi talli
16:18:42 [davb]
Hi Talli.
16:18:46 [talli]
hey guys
16:18:47 [Spork]
beat ya! :)~
16:18:50 [davb]
I think content_folder__delete is broken.
16:19:01 [nkd]
hi talli
16:19:18 [talli]
hey nkd
16:19:23 [davb]
It tried to unregister the content type before it deletes the items from content_type_folder_map
16:19:56 [Spork]
talli, my boss did not like it at all
16:20:06 [nkd]
davb have you tried to change static-pages w.r.t guidelines?
16:20:07 [Spork]
he thought I did not understand what I had to do
16:20:19 [talli]
weird
16:20:20 [talli]
why not?
16:20:34 [davb]
No. I am using my own guidelines right now :) I am trying to get the drop script to work correctly.
16:20:39 [Spork]
He said I just threw a bunch of buzzwords together and put no thought to it
16:20:40 [talli]
he didn't like the outline or the content?
16:20:45 [Spork]
content
16:21:08 [davb]
Actually content_folder__unregister_content_type is supposed to delete the entries in content_type_folder_map itself
16:21:08 [nkd]
ok, let me know when you get started
16:21:14 [davb]
sure.
16:21:16 [talli]
well, you did, didn't you?
16:21:30 [Spork]
no I did those things
16:21:46 [talli]
oh, ok
16:22:00 [talli]
well, he may want to have more detail on each line
16:22:08 [talli]
or he's an ass. which is always a possibility
16:22:15 [Spork]
I'm going with the latter option
16:22:26 [Spork]
I think my english skills are just beyond his abilities
16:22:36 [davb]
heh
16:22:49 [davb]
Get ready for that interview at Smith Barney, I say.
16:23:44 [Spork]
I hear that
16:24:48 [talli]
is rbm here this morning?
16:25:31 [davb]
aha. static_page needs to be a subtype of content_revision (I thought it was).
16:25:46 [nkd]
read the guidelines
16:25:47 [nkd]
?
16:26:12 [nkd]
davb: reading the guidelines?
16:26:47 [davb]
No I meant for content_folder__delete to work.
16:27:11 [davb]
actually the problem is its not unregistering the fact that a static_folder can contain other folders.
16:28:42 [nkd]
guidelines say: "In most of the cases, choosing the object type is straightforward. However, if your object type uses the content repository then you should make sure that
16:28:43 [nkd]
your object type is a subclass of the "content_revision" class. You should also make sure all content is created using that subclass, rather than simply
16:28:43 [nkd]
create content with the "content_revision" type. "
16:29:07 [davb]
It is.
16:29:22 [davb]
The problem is with the drop script. Content_folder__delete is broken.
16:29:34 [davb]
It assumes that a content_folder will not contain other folders.
16:30:05 [davb]
it only deletes items in the cr_folder_type_map that are content_revision or subtypes of content_revision. content_folder is a subtype of content_item.
16:30:06 [nkd]
contact Dan
16:30:07 [Spork]
ok
16:30:16 [Spork]
now, this might be a dumb question =)
16:30:22 [Spork]
how do I store all my stuff in Oracle now
16:30:34 [davb]
yes. Sorry to throw all that out. Just thinking outloud(or in IRC at least)
16:30:43 [Spork]
i think I wrote a pl/sql procedure to do it
16:30:46 [nkd]
np
16:30:48 [davb]
use it.
16:30:54 [Spork]
how? lol
16:31:09 [Spork]
can you take a look at it?
16:31:21 [Spork]
i don't even know if it does what I think it does =)
16:31:30 [davb]
like this: db_exec_plsql "PEFORM spork_item.new('properties of spork item')"
16:31:30 [Spork]
* Spork has no confidence in anything aside sleep
16:31:48 [davb]
wait leave out the perform, thats for postgresql.
16:32:39 [davb]
The syntax is a little different. If you want to capture the id of the new item you need to select it into a variable or something.
16:32:50 [Spork]
hmmm
16:32:55 [Spork]
Dave, can you take a look?
16:33:02 [davb]
sure /msg me
16:33:10 [Spork]
i'll e-mail it's very long
16:33:13 [davb]
k
16:34:56 [Spork]
email address?
16:36:19 [davb]
dave@thedesignexperience.org
16:38:14 [Spork]
sent
16:41:27 [Spork]
Syntax error: EOF in backquote substitution
16:41:55 [davb]
Spork: looks ok to me. It creates an object and stuff the data in the table.
16:42:06 [Spork]
that's pretty much all I need!
16:42:11 [Spork]
So how do I use it? lol
16:42:18 [Spork]
db_exec_plsql "snmp_incident.new(var1,var2,var3,var4) ?
16:42:20 [davb]
you might have to set permissions on the acs_object,
16:42:31 [davb]
Spork: yes
16:42:36 [Spork]
well, if it craps out i guess we'll see
16:42:40 [Spork]
ok here goes nothing then
16:42:41 [Spork]
hehe
16:42:42 [davb]
Look at some of vinod's code.
16:42:46 [Spork]
i did
16:42:50 [Spork]
that's where I stole that from =)
16:43:22 [davb]
There is probablay atcl proc that calls the function. So that its not hard-coded in the tcl paages.
16:43:40 [Spork]
how do I do that?
16:43:42 [Spork]
oh
16:44:05 [Spork]
you mean like proc store {var 1} { call to pl/sql}
16:44:06 [Spork]
?
16:44:38 [davb]
yeah.
16:44:47 [davb]
that is the ACS style.
16:44:51 [Spork]
how is that any more efficient?
16:45:34 [davb]
its not. just abstracted. The TCL pages don't have to change if the underlying API changes.
16:46:02 [davb]
The tcl page developed needs no knowledge of the database structure.
16:46:09 [davb]
s/developed/developer
16:49:42 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. It's worth noting that, schedules permitting, we'll be attempting to cut over to the new code on Saturday. (all times OPN standard, UTC)
16:49:59 [davb]
hmmmm.
16:50:48 [davb]
weird.
16:52:09 [davb]
ls
16:52:11 [davb]
oops
16:53:01 [Spork]
dave.txt needs.txt to.adp to.tcl help.jpg me.sql
16:53:25 [Spork]
here's a question for you
16:53:32 [Spork]
but I will ask you after lunch
16:53:51 [davb]
ok
16:54:14 [Spork]
bbl
16:54:33 [Spork]
away
16:54:35 [Spork]
lunch
16:55:42 [davb]
hmmm.
16:56:30 [adler]
adler has joined #openacs
16:56:36 [adler]
cheers
16:56:45 [davb]
hello adler
16:57:13 [adler]
hey davb - erase those pesky newlines?
16:57:47 [adler]
that was you, right?
16:59:36 [jerryasher]
Hallo Halloo!
16:59:56 [jerryasher]
Aaron, an RSS 1.0 question...
17:03:32 [davb]
heh. yes thanks.
17:05:16 [jerryasher]
* jerryasher which one of these IRC switches activates Aaron's vibra-bed?
17:05:35 [davb]
try /msg AaronSw it might make his client beep
17:06:09 [jerryasher]
* jerryasher wow. davb must be psychic or something, better be careful what I think around him
17:06:40 [davb]
No way.
17:07:24 [davb]
* davb wishes for create or replace function, etc... in postgresql soon!
17:08:27 [lethedrinker]
lethedrinker has joined #openacs
17:09:09 [jerryasher]
Does anyone know what the "bitch seat" is? (I just found out, no it didn't hurt)
17:09:19 [jerryasher]
Thank you NPR!
17:10:36 [adler]
yeah.. the middle back seat...
17:10:47 [adler]
or whereever we can find your mother!
17:10:55 [davb]
woah!
17:11:14 [adler]
* adler snickers
17:11:19 [jerryasher]
Ha ha. Listen, you haven't seen my mom. She's safe from all attacks (unfortunately)
17:11:38 [jerryasher]
But yeah, I've had a bike for 15 years, and just learned a new word.
17:12:02 [jerryasher]
They're talking to some feminist biker and how she came to love biker culture
17:12:09 [lethedrinker]
just when you thought it was safe to join a channel, they start bringing up moms...
17:12:39 [adler]
jerry- it's the leather, right?
17:13:24 [jerryasher]
Uh no, I guess I'd rather not get into it too much, but um,
17:13:50 [jerryasher]
well i'm just going to drop it.
17:13:57 [adler]
don't go offtopic on my account
17:14:28 [jerryasher]
Nope, not at all. I just thought that little factoid was interesting at the moment.
17:14:49 [jerryasher]
Still, where's that AaronSw? Anyone hear know RSS?
17:15:10 [davb]
a little. I know where to find out anyway...
17:16:38 [jerryasher]
In RSS 0.91, <items> are subelements of <channel>
17:16:52 [davb]
yes.
17:16:53 [jerryasher]
In RSS 1.0, <items> are both:
17:17:16 [jerryasher]
subelements of <rdf:seq> which is a subelement of <channel>
17:17:17 [jerryasher]
AND
17:18:05 [jerryasher]
<item> is a toplevel element by itself
17:18:27 [davb]
yes it appears so.
17:18:42 [jerryasher]
Actually a correction:
17:18:56 [jerryasher]
In RSS 0.91, <item> is a subelement of <channel>
17:19:17 [jerryasher]
Well Aaron says that 1.0 is completely backward compatible with 0.91
17:19:35 [jerryasher]
but I don't see how that works with 0.91
17:19:37 [davb]
Or did he say the tools all work with both?
17:20:40 [jerryasher]
I got the impression (erroneous?) that a lot of work went into 1.0 to make it
17:20:56 [jerryasher]
compatible such that a 1.0 stream fed to a 0.91 processor would work
17:21:15 [jerryasher]
since, presumably, the 0.91 processor would ignore what it didn't understand, and
17:21:25 [jerryasher]
the left over bit would be a 0.91 stream.
17:22:16 [jerryasher]
4. Design Goals
17:22:16 [jerryasher]
The RSS 1.0 design goal is an XML-based lightweight multipurpose extensible metadata description and syndication format. Backward compatibility with RSS 0.9 is a goal for ease of adoption by
17:22:24 [jerryasher]
existing syndicated content producers.
17:23:37 [lethedrinker]
jerryasher: .91 and .9 are different
17:24:38 [jerryasher]
Right....?
17:25:21 [lethedrinker]
nevermind
17:25:58 [davb]
jerryasher: I am looking, It appears you are correct. the goal is backward compatability, but ther are different. in that items is outside of channel in 1.0
17:26:22 [davb]
I suspect most parsers just grab all the elements called item whevere they appear.
17:26:38 [nkd]
nkd has left #openacs
17:31:13 [shagster]
Wow, uptime.openacs.org has 1000 users
17:31:55 [davb]
anyone know how DanW's tree_sortkeys work? Should the top element have '' as the sortkey or 00?
17:32:23 [shagster]
Umm, I believe it is 00, I think
17:32:38 [shagster]
How is that for being sure :)
17:32:40 [davb]
Ok, so my trigger is broken. again. or differently at least.
17:33:09 [davb]
you are correct:
17:33:09 [davb]
0 | acs_object | | t | \
17:33:09 [davb]
| 2001-10-26 12:49:30-04 | | 2001-10-26 12:49:30-04 | \
17:33:09 [davb]
| | /00
17:33:23 [davb]
the top acs_object itself has /00
17:33:55 [shagster]
<blinks> I was right, watch out for flying pigs :)
17:34:13 [davb]
heh
17:35:53 [markd2]
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17:37:24 [Spork]
hidly ho neighborinos
17:37:33 [markd2]
bork
17:37:42 [Spork]
bark!
17:37:48 [Spork]
ltns mark
17:37:53 [Spork]
* Spork gives mark a cookie
17:38:10 [markd2]
mmmm... cookies
17:40:12 [lethedrinker]
lethedrinker has left #openacs
17:43:07 [Spork]
I got preselected for an interview with Salomon Smith Barney
17:43:09 [Spork]
:)
17:46:13 [markd2]
So, those are Barney's first names
17:46:22 [Spork]
lol
17:46:30 [markd2]
kinda pretentious for a purple dinosaur
17:48:07 [talli]
Spork: does SSB have an IRC channel where you can ask for help?
17:48:16 [Spork]
lol
17:48:24 [Spork]
help for what?
17:48:46 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
17:52:19 [AaronSw]
jerryasher, 1.0 is backwards comaptible with 0.9 not 0.91
17:52:23 [AaronSw]
sorry if I misspoke
17:53:01 [jerryasher]
Ah, okay.
17:53:18 [jerryasher]
You may not have mispoke, I probably misheard.
17:53:29 [jerryasher]
* jerryasher 20,000 lines, flush....
17:53:35 [jerryasher]
* jerryasher kidding
17:54:06 [jerryasher]
What then of RSS and userland stuff?
17:54:21 [jerryasher]
If I try to feed dave winer a 1.0 feed what do you think will happen?
17:54:46 [davb]
Radio Userland can read 1.0 feeds I believe.
17:54:59 [Spork]
hey jerry
17:55:16 [jerryasher]
hi Spork (I'm curious as to what your major is)
17:56:16 [jerryasher]
So in RSS 1.0, what is the relationship between <channel><items> and <item>
17:56:44 [davb]
Supports RSS 0.90 or greater, <scriptingNews> 1.0 or greater for input
17:56:57 [jerryasher]
Oh! Where do you see that?
17:57:16 [davb]
http://radio.userland.com
17:57:24 [jerryasher]
and answering my own question, it appears they are linked via the <item><link>
17:58:08 [jerryasher]
Hmm, I see that, I'm not sure what that means....
17:58:37 [adler]
adler has quit
17:58:42 [jerryasher]
what do you supposed "<scriptingNews> 1.0 or greater..." means
17:59:09 [davb]
jerryasher: thats a different format. Radio supports RSS and scripting news format.
17:59:32 [davb]
for example. scripting.com still syndicates in scriptingnews format. I have no idea why.
17:59:54 [Spork]
jerry my major as in college?
18:00:07 [davb]
Spork: no your major malfunction :)
18:00:18 [Spork]
oh that
18:00:21 [Spork]
well, that's obvious
18:00:27 [Spork]
it starts with a b
18:00:30 [Spork]
ands with an s
18:00:46 [Spork]
and has what Microsoft just released
18:00:58 [markd2]
a BS major
18:01:00 [jerryasher]
bturds?
18:01:59 [jerryasher]
I see. There are tons of folks doing CS going BS these days.
18:02:18 [jerryasher]
It's interesting. Used to be all the software folks were coming out of physics
18:02:19 [Spork]
my majors are Computer Science and Applied Math
18:03:43 [jerryasher]
Interesting. Tnx.
18:04:21 [jerryasher]
Okay, well I guess I will try to develop a proc that spits out either 0.91 or 1.0 RSS.
18:04:34 [davb]
and offer a choice to the user?
18:04:37 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw disconnects
18:04:39 [jerryasher]
perhaps determining 0.91 or 1.0 at random, is best.
18:04:43 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw reconnects
18:05:04 [jerryasher]
They are both pretty easy to generate.
18:05:09 [davb]
you are creating it right? Not bringing it in.
18:05:34 [jerryasher]
Yes, at first I was thinking of this in terms of a bboard def, but I reading the
18:05:51 [jerryasher]
RSS 1.0 spec and how it might apply to job postings, etc., I think I'll just make it
18:06:06 [jerryasher]
an rss def that you feed a list of items to, and some channel info, and it spits out
18:06:21 [davb]
I am planning on an OpenACS 4 package to offer RSS generation services.
18:06:24 [jerryasher]
the feed. and then folks can hook that into a registered proc or .vuh file if that's
18:06:28 [jerryasher]
what oacs 4 is using.
18:06:53 [jerryasher]
What's the status?
18:07:05 [davb]
Its in my head so far.
18:07:11 [davb]
Down a little far on the list right now.
18:07:46 [jerryasher]
Okay, well maybe I'll give you the proc above [rss_out [channel] [item-list]] and you can
18:07:54 [jerryasher]
turn it into an oacs 4 service or some such....
18:07:58 [davb]
Cool.
18:08:09 [Spork]
here's a question
18:08:19 [jerryasher]
i'm gonna go code for a while and listen to science friday.
18:08:35 [Spork]
Can one pl/sql function insert numbers into multiple tables?
18:09:06 [davb]
Talli: any plans yet on how to organize people developing new packages? I am talking about services on the new openacs.org
18:09:21 [davb]
Sure why not? I can do anything you tell it to ;)
18:09:27 [talli]
hold on. we're having a musea discussion about that right now
18:09:40 [talli]
so i can answer that question in an hour or so
18:09:49 [davb]
maybe jerryasher is right... I am psycho^Hic
18:10:10 [markd2]
* markd2 hands davb a 't'
18:10:49 [davb]
heh
18:10:55 [Spork]
lol
18:11:06 [davb]
davb is now known as davtb
18:11:48 [Spork]
so can one pl/sql function update multiple tables?
18:11:55 [davtb]
Yeah sure:
18:11:56 [Spork]
my guess is yes
18:11:56 [markd2]
TB, or not TB... is that congestion?
18:12:02 [davtb]
begin
18:12:05 [markd2]
consumption be done? of corpse!
18:12:11 [davtb]
update blah set x=tar;
18:12:21 [davtb]
update foo set y=bar;
18:12:24 [davtb]
end;
18:12:30 [davtb]
davtb is now known as davb
18:12:57 [Spork]
ok
18:13:00 [Spork]
a few more questions
18:13:32 [Spork]
can a pl/sql function take this as an argument {{list for a} {list for b}}
18:13:49 [davb]
don't think so.
18:14:04 [Spork]
hmmm
18:14:06 [davb]
* davb points to markd2
18:14:33 [Spork]
* Spork waves a cookie
18:14:54 [davb]
You can do this though:
18:15:03 [davb]
wait no, you can't.
18:15:05 [davb]
do this:
18:15:09 [davb]
in tcl:
18:15:15 [davb]
foreach item $a {
18:15:25 [davb]
db_exec_plsql yourfunction
18:15:27 [davb]
}
18:15:45 [markd2]
there's a pl_list package in the acs4 code base I think
18:15:51 [markd2]
which can do the list things
18:15:56 [davb]
neat.
18:16:36 [Spork]
hmmm
18:16:40 [Spork]
ok
18:16:46 [Spork]
well, this is my current problem
18:17:01 [Spork]
I have 35 variables that my adp/tcl page has
18:17:19 [Spork]
out of those 35 I have 26 that go to table 1
18:17:23 [Spork]
5 to table 2
18:17:28 [Spork]
5 to table 3
18:17:35 [Spork]
and whatever is left to table 4
18:18:09 [Spork]
Should I write a proc to take {{tab1 vars} {tab2 vars} {tab3 vars} {tab4 vars}} {
18:18:09 [markd2]
ok
18:18:24 [Spork]
then call a pl/sql function that inserts stuff into table1
18:18:31 [Spork]
another one to insert stuff into table2
18:18:34 [Spork]
and so forth?
18:19:13 [Spork]
also, the catch here is that it could be more than 5 for table 2 and 3 and 4
18:19:17 [markd2]
I'd probably do 4 different procs
18:19:22 [markd2]
one for each table
18:19:25 [Spork]
ok
18:19:30 [markd2]
that way you don't have to cram everythting into one call
18:19:33 [markd2]
then pull it all back apart
18:19:36 [Spork]
right
18:19:51 [Spork]
* Spork goes at it
18:20:23 [Spork]
so I have a function called new
18:20:29 [Spork]
that does the 1st table
18:20:34 [Spork]
can I call the rest anything I please?
18:21:19 [markd2]
sure
18:24:39 [Spork]
ok
18:24:42 [Spork]
what about this
18:24:46 [markd2]
nap time for the old man
18:24:48 [markd2]
markd2 has quit
18:24:51 [Spork]
doh
18:25:14 [davb]
heh
18:25:19 [Spork]
oh well
18:25:23 [Spork]
i'll just bug you :P
18:25:29 [Spork]
Can I have this though
18:25:51 [Spork]
table1 stores a ping_id which is used as a key in the ping table
18:26:20 [Spork]
ah
18:26:51 [Spork]
question: Are oracle functions executed as transactions?
18:27:00 [davb]
don;t know. Postgresql are.
18:27:00 [Spork]
eg. If it fails half way does it roll back?
18:27:25 [davb]
do you want it to be a transaction?
18:27:35 [Spork]
yeah
18:27:42 [davb]
I see. you want to have all 4 inside a big transaction?
18:27:48 [Spork]
yup
18:28:17 [davb]
db_transaction I think
18:28:21 [Spork]
ok
18:28:22 [Spork]
thanks
18:28:34 [davb]
I think you can put the calls inside that.
18:30:41 [Spork]
correct
18:31:41 [Spork]
ok I got a question
18:31:50 [Spork]
db_exec_plsql should return an incident id
18:32:07 [Spork]
so would it be set incident_id [db_exec_plsql....]
18:33:33 [davb]
I'm not sure...
18:34:12 [Spork]
hmm
18:34:34 [Spork]
also, how do I make something into a sequence?
18:35:18 [Spork]
hmmmmmmmmm
18:35:48 [davb]
create sequence blah_id_seq;
18:36:17 [Spork]
in tcl or oracle?
18:36:19 [davb]
insert into blahs blah_id values(nextval(blah_id_seq))
18:36:23 [davb]
oracle.
18:36:25 [Spork]
ok
18:36:43 [davb]
I think thats right.
18:38:36 [Spork]
hmmm
18:42:18 [Spork]
so in my *-create.sql I have to create those sequences?
18:42:26 [davb]
yes.
18:42:36 [davb]
wait for what?
18:42:52 [davb]
your ids all come from acs_objects right?
18:43:02 [Spork]
This part is messing me up
18:43:07 [Spork]
here's what I'm trying to do
18:43:18 [Spork]
I have these types of info
18:44:35 [Spork]
snmp_vars, cm_ping_list, cmts_ping_list and attached_devices_list
18:44:53 [Spork]
all of them have some number of variables incapsulated in them
18:45:09 [Spork]
i want to call a proc to take all those as one whole
18:45:48 [Spork]
the snmp_vars will have a unique ID I guess that's coming from acs-Objects
18:46:10 [davb]
right.
18:46:22 [Spork]
then, cm_ping_list and cmts_ping_list and attached_devices_list need a key to know they're attached to a specific query
18:46:48 [davb]
Ok then you need one sequence. right? and each query has 3 parts?
18:46:56 [Spork]
4 parts
18:47:00 [davb]
ok.
18:47:10 [Spork]
main part, 2 ping tables and devices attached
18:47:17 [davb]
how many rows in cm_ping_list for eacsh query?
18:47:25 [davb]
I think you need a query_map table.
18:47:26 [Spork]
5 but can be any
18:47:37 [davb]
or something.
18:47:52 [Spork]
create table cm_pings (
18:48:02 [Spork]
incident_id integer
18:48:13 [Spork]
ping_val integer
18:48:15 [Spork]
)
18:48:21 [davb]
yeah a query table. with a unique id. then insert into cm_pings (ping_seq, query_id, etc...)
18:48:40 [Spork]
right
18:48:41 [davb]
into into cmts_pings (cmts_seq, query_id)
18:48:56 [davb]
do you really need ids for each ping?
18:48:56 [Spork]
foreach (ping_in_list)
18:48:58 [Spork]
insert into
18:49:02 [davb]
or just a fk?
18:49:10 [Spork]
fk I guess
18:49:25 [davb]
Unless you need to identify an individual ping.
18:49:32 [Spork]
no
18:49:36 [davb]
I am definitely not the expert here.
18:49:49 [Spork]
you're helping me
18:49:52 [Spork]
that's all that matters
18:50:12 [davb]
Ok. query table should have what? query_id, user_who_ran_query_id, query_time, etc...?
18:50:22 [Spork]
pretty much
18:50:37 [davb]
oh yeah modem_id... otherwise its pointless :)
18:50:53 [Spork]
right
18:52:23 [Spork]
do I even need a pl/sql function to insert pings?
18:54:35 [davb]
no, its just good style. To abstract it in case the data model ever changes. Just you can just use a tcl proc to abstract it, or just write the query right in.
18:55:12 [davb]
I vote for write the queries in, then take em out later if you have to. easier to test.
18:55:33 [Spork]
ok
18:57:35 [Spork]
whoa
18:58:25 [Spork]
my table like doesn't exist
18:58:35 [davb]
that will slow you down...
18:58:55 [Spork]
HOST_NODE_MAP
18:58:55 [Spork]
IMAGES
18:58:55 [Spork]
JAVA$CLASS$MD5$TABLE
18:59:11 [davb]
whats that?
18:59:18 [Spork]
my missing "INCIDENTS" table
18:59:23 [davb]
aha.
18:59:36 [davb]
did you call it something else like snmp_incidents?
18:59:46 [Spork]
good point
18:59:48 [Spork]
:)
19:01:08 [Spork]
hmm
19:01:45 [Spork]
so I Don't need to have cm_ping_id and cmts_ping id or I do?
19:01:51 [Spork]
in the query table that is
19:01:57 [chump]
chump has quit
19:02:17 [davb]
no.
19:02:24 [davb]
just the query_id in the other table.
19:02:37 [Spork]
ok
19:03:09 [Spork]
gotta alter my table then
19:03:13 [davb]
just a foreign_key constraint (query_id references snmp_queries) or whatver.
19:03:21 [Spork]
ok
19:04:59 [chump]
chump has joined #openacs
19:05:34 [Spork]
how do I remove a not null in oracle?
19:05:50 [davb]
no idea.
19:06:00 [Spork]
heh
19:06:18 [davb]
drop constrainst constraint_name on table_name?
19:06:29 [davb]
unless its part of alter table.
19:07:08 [davb]
I only see alter table tablename add tablename constraintname definition
19:07:18 [davb]
no drop constraint
19:07:21 [davb]
in postgresql
19:09:10 [Spork]
hmm
19:17:29 [davb]
anyone know how to use the tree_level function in OACS4?
19:18:02 [Spork]
do references cascadE?
19:19:37 [davb]
no idea. in fact thinking about it is giving me a headache
19:19:38 [davb]
:)
19:20:24 [davb]
yes. I figured it out.
19:20:39 [Spork]
good job
19:20:40 [Spork]
:)
19:21:46 [Spork]
ok
19:21:49 [Spork]
I got my tables made
19:22:07 [davb]
cool.
19:24:24 [Spork]
yeah
19:24:28 [Spork]
now what do I do with them :/
19:25:13 [davb]
put stuff in.
19:26:05 [Spork]
lol
19:26:10 [Spork]
easier said than done
19:27:05 [davb]
cool drop script is done!
19:29:22 [Spork]
ok
19:29:26 [Spork]
I got some questions for you
19:29:31 [davb]
mutt
19:29:33 [davb]
oops
19:29:38 [davb]
heh
19:29:46 [Spork]
I am no mutt!
19:29:48 [Spork]
* Spork bites dave
19:30:11 [Spork]
k
19:30:15 [Spork]
ok
19:30:22 [Spork]
I have a bunch of variables
19:30:27 [Spork]
var1 var2 var3
19:30:38 [Spork]
I'm writing the proc to do the db transaction
19:30:46 [Spork]
Should I be passing a list of those or one by one?
19:30:49 [Spork]
or it doesn't matter?
19:32:05 [nkd]
nkd has joined #openacs
19:33:23 [davb]
to the proc?
19:33:42 [davb]
use a list and then take them apart in the proc before you call db_transaction I think.
19:33:47 [davb]
hi nkd.
19:33:56 [Spork]
nah
19:34:01 [davb]
I finally finished the drop-script and fixing my screw ups.
19:34:05 [Spork]
it's more work to edit if one thing changes
19:34:40 [davb]
send a list. That way you can do foreach list_of_pings or whatever in case the number of pings changes.
19:34:41 [Spork]
ok question
19:34:43 [davb]
ok not.
19:34:55 [Spork]
right, for pings that makes sense for regular vars not yet
19:34:59 [davb]
so now I really am going to work on search for static pages.
19:35:05 [Spork]
dave
19:35:14 [davb]
oh yeah. you can just send string list string string stirng etc...
19:35:18 [nkd]
hi davb
19:35:20 [nkd]
hi guys
19:35:25 [Spork]
when I call snmp_incidents.new(--)
19:35:37 [Spork]
the new function has some things it fills form openacs
19:35:43 [Spork]
and some it should take as params
19:35:49 [Spork]
how does it know which one is a parameter?
19:35:51 [nkd]
ok davb, i will be online.
19:36:25 [davb]
huh?
19:36:34 [davb]
bind variables??
19:38:12 [Spork]
you still have my create script?
19:38:38 [davb]
uh no.. i deleted it. you can send it again.
19:38:49 [Spork]
:/
19:39:20 [Spork]
sent
19:39:54 [davb]
nkd this is correct: "However, if your object type uses the content repository then you
19:39:54 [davb]
should make sure that your object type is a subclass of the
19:39:54 [davb]
"content_revision" class. You should also make sure all content is
19:39:54 [davb]
created using that subclass, rather than simply create content with
19:39:54 [davb]
the "content_revision" type.
19:40:25 [davb]
but I think this is incorrect: Whenever you call content_item__new, call it with
19:40:25 [davb]
'content_revision' as the item_subtype and 'your_content_type' as
19:40:25 [davb]
the content_type.
19:42:03 [nkd]
well we will have to ask about that, but I think he's right
19:42:12 [nkd]
s/ask/ask Dan
19:42:30 [davb]
Ok.
19:42:30 [talli]
* talli is back
19:42:42 [davb]
All I know is static_pages is working now.
19:42:49 [davb]
:)
19:42:53 [nkd]
:)
19:42:59 [Spork]
Dave, get the mail?
19:43:08 [Spork]
hi talli
19:43:17 [talli]
davb: are you intersted in helping to build the new openacs.org? if so, we would be happy to incorporate your elbow grease
19:43:21 [nkd]
hi talli
19:43:34 [davb]
talli: uh sure...I don't have anything else to do...
19:43:54 [talli]
nkd: i spoke with davehill and luke, and we need to do some data migration before we can provide you with those scripts
19:44:03 [talli]
butt it shouldn't be hard once we've moved that stuff
19:44:05 [davb]
talli: Sure. I don't mind helping out. Will you need the category stuff I am working on for it?
19:44:16 [nkd]
np, let me know when you are ready
19:44:23 [talli]
davb: great. this may be a cool opportunity to push ETP in a couple of new directions if you are intersted
19:44:36 [davb]
great.
19:44:43 [talli]
i think we definitely can use categories for ETP, and maybe build some new templates too.
19:44:49 [nkd]
talli: got my message earlier about wf
19:44:50 [davb]
Cool.
19:45:08 [davb]
I really have to finish up static_pages so I can hand it off to Don to assign to someone else. :)
19:45:09 [talli]
Luke also mentioned he's been doing a lot of thinking about photos and ETP as well and has some cool ideas for that
19:45:22 [talli]
nkd: yeah, i got your message and responded to it with some lines
19:45:24 [talli]
did you see that?
19:45:29 [nkd]
nope
19:45:43 [nkd]
maybe it was after i left
19:46:22 [talli]
is it possible to copy stuff out of an IRC window?
19:46:39 [nkd]
sure
19:46:43 [talli]
how?
19:46:53 [nkd]
copy/paste :)
19:46:55 [talli]
my highlight doesn't persist
19:47:13 [talli]
ok, now it works :)
19:49:00 [davb]
its a UNIX copy. it copies when you highlight (took me a while to figure it out)
19:49:00 [Spork]
lol
19:49:00 [Spork]
Dave get the email yet?
19:49:00 [davb]
Now I try to do that all over in Windows and go "how come it didn;t copy?)
19:49:00 [davb]
probably.
19:49:00 [Spork]
I do the same thing
19:49:00 [talli]
exactly what happened to me :)
19:49:00 [Spork]
Dave...look at the package
19:49:00 [davb]
ok. what am I looking for?
19:49:00 [Spork]
look at the bottom at the body
19:49:08 [Spork]
my understanding is that incident_id is generated from acs_Objects
19:49:17 [davb]
yes. you do acs_object__new
19:49:18 [Spork]
most other variables I have to supply myself
19:49:37 [Spork]
how does it know to stick them into the right spots?
19:50:03 [Spork]
I just call snmp_incident.new( mac_address,incident_date,comments,problem_id,cm_ip,cmts_ip) for example?
19:50:04 [davb]
like this snmp_incident.new( :tclvarname=>parameter_name, etc)
19:50:11 [Spork]
oh
19:50:39 [davb]
they are named. You can leave out the default ones or put them in any order. Although I am pretty sure it works if you do it the other way without names also.
19:51:11 [Spork]
is it :$mac_address
19:51:12 [davb]
see how you call acs_object.new in your function. Same thing.
19:51:15 [Spork]
or just :mac_address
19:51:38 [davb]
:mac_address for bind variables.
19:51:46 [Spork]
what are bind variables?
19:51:50 [Spork]
I don't have any i don't think
19:52:01 [davb]
Just use them and don't worry about it.
19:52:06 [davb]
thats what I do.
19:52:22 [Spork]
I still don't foloow
19:52:44 [davb]
:mac_address is a bind variable that gets its value from the tcl variablae mac_address
19:53:00 [davb]
the Oracle driver quotes it and makes sure its safe to insert into the db.
19:53:17 [Spork]
ok
19:53:29 [Spork]
how about me getting sysdate into one of the columns?
19:53:53 [Spork]
snmp_incident.new(
19:54:12 [Spork]
snmp_incident.new(
19:54:19 [Spork]
:mac_address => mac_address,
19:54:26 [Spork]
:incident_date => sysdate
19:54:28 [Spork]
);
19:54:28 [Spork]
?
19:55:58 [davb]
sysdate() i think
19:56:07 [davb]
you got it backwards though
19:56:16 [Spork]
?
19:56:20 [davb]
sysdate() => incident_date,
19:56:24 [Spork]
ah
19:56:40 [Spork]
what happened to :
19:58:52 [davb]
davb has quit
20:00:39 [davb]
davb has joined #openacs
20:00:43 [Spork]
wb
20:04:17 [Spork]
ok I don't get it
20:04:27 [Spork]
book explains it not well
20:07:22 [Spork]
so the thing on the left is the destination and the one on the right is the source?
20:09:11 [davb]
no idea.
20:09:23 [Spork]
heh
20:09:33 [Spork]
What about locking tables and stuff am I going to have to do this?
20:09:45 [Spork]
Vinods stuff is just way over my head
20:13:56 [vinod]
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20:14:15 [nkd]
hi vinod
20:14:28 [vinod]
hey nkd!
20:14:46 [nkd]
spork, what were you saying? :)
20:15:44 [davb]
Spork: woah! Oracle takes care of that MVCC
20:15:48 [davb]
hi vinod.
20:15:54 [davb]
I finally fixed static-pages.
20:16:00 [vinod]
cool!
20:16:04 [davb]
You were right, but I had a bunch more bugs in there.
20:16:20 [vinod]
those bugs like to hang out in groups :-)
20:17:38 [rbm]
* rbm belches
20:17:46 [davb]
So vinod, I hear you want to take over maintenance on the static-pages package :)
20:18:52 [davb]
* davb hopes this rumor spreads...
20:19:10 [nkd]
just sent mail to Don :)
20:19:13 [vinod]
uhh... yeah... sure... send all email about that to my new email address
20:19:19 [vinod]
billg@microsoft.com
20:19:57 [vinod]
* vinod dives into the internet to intercept nkd's message
20:20:05 [nkd]
:)
20:20:55 [Spork]
can I bug you a bit vinod?
20:21:39 [vinod]
sure, gotta run in a bit, but I'll try
20:22:02 [Spork]
how do I stuff variables into my database?
20:22:10 [Spork]
that's my "broad" question
20:22:54 [Spork]
I have a pl/sql proc that does it
20:23:01 [Spork]
I just wanna know how to i run it
20:23:28 [vinod]
what have you tried?
20:24:00 [Spork]
I was thinking along the lines of this:
20:24:03 [Spork]
snmp_incident.new(
20:24:08 [Spork]
mac_address => mac_address,
20:24:14 [Spork]
sysdate() => incident_date,
20:24:19 [Spork]
comments => comments,
20:24:20 [Spork]
....
20:24:22 [Spork]
);
20:25:08 [vinod]
almost... except it should be: parm => value (so incident_date => sysdate)
20:25:18 [vinod]
s/parm/param
20:26:03 [nkd]
also comments => :comments
20:26:22 [Spork]
how do you figure?
20:26:30 [vinod]
nkd: right
20:26:52 [docwolf]
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20:26:58 [davb]
hi docwolf
20:26:58 [nkd]
hi docwolf
20:27:04 [vinod]
Spork: figure what? the :comments part?
20:27:04 [docwolf]
Hi Everybody!
20:27:08 [Spork]
So them mac_Address should be mac_address => :mac_address
20:27:09 [Spork]
?
20:27:14 [vinod]
hey docwolf
20:27:18 [Spork]
hey docwolf
20:27:18 [vinod]
Spork: correct
20:27:21 [nkd]
spork:right
20:27:22 [Spork]
ok
20:28:58 [Spork]
so why would you use $var sometimes?
20:29:11 [nkd]
bind variables are better
20:29:19 [ola]
* ola wonders if there exists a file where he can read the boot messages.
20:29:33 [vinod]
if you used $comments, it would work, but like nkd says, bind variables are better
20:29:46 [Spork]
ok
20:30:00 [davb]
ola: /var/log/messages?
20:30:05 [Spork]
vinod
20:30:13 [nkd]
chump: http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/manuals/db-api/
20:30:14 [chump]
Not understood: http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/manuals/db-api/
20:30:33 [nkd]
chump: http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/manuals/db-api/
20:30:33 [chump]
Not understood: http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/manuals/db-api/
20:30:35 [davb]
nkd just type the URL starting with http
20:30:35 [Spork]
now, if I have incident_id which is calculated from acs_objects I don't need to pass that in to the call right?
20:30:43 [nkd]
sorry
20:30:48 [nkd]
http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/manuals/db-api/
20:30:48 [chump]
B: http://philip.greenspun.com/teaching/manuals/db-api/ from nkd
20:30:56 [davb]
np for me.
20:31:23 [davb]
B:|Brief Introduction to Database Access using AOLServer and the ACS
20:31:23 [chump]
titled item B
20:31:57 [vinod]
Spork: correct.
20:32:06 [davb]
Now I understand: "because Oracle will parse the query before interpolating the variables). "
20:32:13 [graszew]
graszew has joined #openacs
20:32:32 [vinod]
if you call acs_object.new() without providing an object_id, it will generate one and return it to you.
20:32:33 [Spork]
k
20:32:36 [davb]
WHY is that sentence not anywhere in the aD docs??
20:32:49 [ola]
davb: thanks!
20:32:52 [davb]
* davb goes home.
20:32:54 [davb]
ola np
20:33:56 [Spork]
bye dave
20:34:34 [Spork]
vinod, how do I catch the incident_id it generated for me?
20:34:45 [davb]
davb has quit
20:34:46 [Spork]
set id = snmp_incident.new(...)?
20:35:04 [vinod]
you're doing this from tcl, right?
20:35:09 [Spork]
yeah
20:35:12 [nkd]
set id [snmp ...
20:35:12 [vinod]
ok
20:35:26 [Spork]
right..my mistake nkd :)
20:35:32 [nkd]
np
20:35:51 [vinod]
set id [db_exec_plsql blah ":1 = snmp_incident.new()"]
20:36:10 [nkd]
not sure if :1 is needed
20:36:27 [vinod]
nkd: thought it was, but i'm not certain
20:36:43 [Spork]
ok
20:36:46 [Spork]
i'll try it both ways
20:37:29 [nkd]
try this it will work: set id [db_exec_plsql blah ":snmp_incident.new()"]
20:37:42 [nkd]
s/:snmp_incident.new/snmp_incident.new
20:40:15 [adler]
adler has joined #openacs
20:41:18 [adler]
are xql files supposed to go in the www dir?
20:41:31 [nkd]
some of them yes
20:41:33 [Spork]
they're sql queries
20:42:03 [adler]
which ones belong in the www dir?
20:42:07 [nkd]
xql files in the www directory include sql queries that are needed by the tcl pages
20:43:08 [Spork]
ok
20:43:18 [Spork]
nkd/vinod:
20:43:20 [Spork]
set incident_id [db_exec_plsql insert_info "
20:43:20 [Spork]
snmp_incident.new(
20:43:40 [Spork]
Spork has quit
20:43:54 [adler]
hehe
20:44:20 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax has joined #openacs
20:44:26 [Psychephylax]
back
20:44:26 [rbm]
looks like spork was bugged off
20:45:33 [Psychephylax]
set incident_id [db_exec_plsql insert_info "
20:45:33 [Psychephylax]
snmp_incident.new(
20:45:33 [Psychephylax]
mac_address => :mac_address,
20:45:33 [Psychephylax]
incident_date=>sysdate()
20:45:33 [Psychephylax]
comments => :comments,
20:45:33 [Psychephylax]
problem_id => :problem_id,
20:45:35 [Psychephylax]
cm_ip =>:cm_ip,
20:45:37 [Psychephylax]
cmts_ip=>:cmts_ip,
20:45:39 [Psychephylax]
cmts_dns=>:cmts_dns,
20:45:41 [Psychephylax]
cmts_ds_if=>:cmts_ds_if,
20:45:43 [Psychephylax]
cmts_us_if=>:cmts_dns,
20:45:45 [Psychephylax]
cmts_rcv_pwr=>:cmts_rcv_pwr,
20:45:47 [Psychephylax]
cm_status=>:cm_status,
20:45:49 [Psychephylax]
cm_up_percent=>:cm_up_percent,
20:45:51 [Psychephylax]
cm_conn_dev=>:cm_conn_dev,
20:45:53 [Psychephylax]
cm_uptime=>:cm_uptime,
20:45:55 [Psychephylax]
cm_hw_sw_ver=>:cm_hw_sw_ver,
20:45:57 [Psychephylax]
cm_dhcp_server=>:cm_dhcp_server,
20:45:59 [Psychephylax]
cm_tftp_server=>:cm_tftp_server,
20:46:01 [Psychephylax]
cm_rcv_freq=>:cm_rcv_freq,
20:46:03 [Psychephylax]
cm_c_to_n_ratio=>:cm_c_to_n_ratio,
20:46:05 [Psychephylax]
cm_max_ds=>:cm_max_ds,
20:46:07 [Psychephylax]
cm_us_freq=>:cm_us_freq,
20:46:09 [Psychephylax]
cm_trans_pwr=>:cm_trans_pwr,
20:46:11 [Psychephylax]
cm_max_us_band=>:cm_max_us_band,
20:46:13 [Psychephylax]
cm_max_us_burst=>:cm_max_us_burst
20:46:15 [Psychephylax]
);
20:46:17 [Psychephylax]
"]how's that?
20:47:51 [vinod]
change 'sysdate()' to 'sysdate' and put a comma after it. otherwise looks ok
20:48:08 [Psychephylax]
ok
20:48:27 [Psychephylax]
I could even leave it off
20:48:28 [Psychephylax]
right?
20:48:51 [vinod]
leave what off?
20:48:51 [nkd]
only if your table assigns a default value
20:48:55 [Psychephylax]
it does
20:48:57 [Psychephylax]
of sysdate
20:48:58 [Psychephylax]
:)
20:49:07 [nkd]
ok, you can leave it out
20:50:13 [Psychephylax]
ok
20:50:23 [Psychephylax]
and where is the cgi-bin equivalent in aolserver?
20:50:35 [rbm]
Psychephylax: you set that up on the nsd.tcl file
20:50:43 [Psychephylax]
i don't think so
20:50:44 [rbm]
just like on A-pachy
20:50:49 [Psychephylax]
ah ok
20:50:49 [rbm]
s/pachy/patchy/
20:53:16 [Psychephylax]
vinod
20:53:33 [Psychephylax]
you know if the ns_execplsql thing is a transaction or not?
20:53:49 [nkd]
you don't need a cgi-bin directory
20:54:03 [nkd]
just put it in a tcl page and visit it
20:56:39 [vinod]
Psychephylax: i think everything within a pl/sql proc is inside a transaction. if you want multiple db_exec_plsql's to be in 1 transaction, you need to surround it with db_transaction (I think!)
20:57:04 [nkd]
right
21:00:13 [Psychephylax]
oh boy!
21:00:28 [Psychephylax]
ora8.c:3930:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-00900: invalid SQL statement
21:01:10 [nkd]
Psychephylax: send it by email. I'll take a look.
21:01:21 [Psychephylax]
send what? lol
21:01:56 [nkd]
whatever you are trying to submit to oracle
21:02:23 [nkd]
the sql query, db_exec_plsql statement
21:06:01 [Psychephylax]
ok
21:06:05 [Psychephylax]
what's the email address?
21:08:38 [nkd]
just reply to the poem I have sent you last night
21:11:04 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit
21:12:36 [Psychephylax]
ok
21:12:55 [Psychephylax]
sent
21:13:21 [nkd]
got it
21:17:28 [Psychephylax]
ok
21:18:10 [Psychephylax]
same problem
21:19:19 [nkd]
have you removed this: incident_date => sysdate()
21:19:26 [nkd]
if not it needs a comma
21:19:26 [Psychephylax]
yeah
21:19:59 [nkd]
did you set the variables?
21:20:15 [nkd]
e.g. comments,problem_id,...
21:20:42 [Psychephylax]
yeah
21:20:54 [Psychephylax]
let me see something
21:25:45 [nkd]
ok try this:
21:26:12 [Psychephylax]
i think it should be [] and no spaces
21:26:15 [nkd]
begin :1 := snmp.... ; end;
21:26:31 [Psychephylax]
where?
21:26:53 [nkd]
set incident_id [db_exec_plsql insert_info "
21:27:12 [nkd]
begin :1 = snmp_incident.new(...); end;"]
21:28:18 [Psychephylax]
I think it should be :=
21:28:24 [Psychephylax]
ora8.c:3568:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-06550: line 1, column 10:
21:28:24 [Psychephylax]
PLS-00103: Encountered the symbol "=" when expecting one of the following:
21:28:26 [Psychephylax]
:= . ( @ % ; indicator
21:28:42 [nkd]
right
21:28:45 [Psychephylax]
oh
21:28:47 [Psychephylax]
wait, no end either
21:28:57 [adler]
adler has quit
21:30:13 [Psychephylax]
ora8.c:3568:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-06550: line 1, column 13:
21:30:14 [Psychephylax]
PLS-00905: object MYOPENACS.SNMP_INCIDENT is invalid
21:33:11 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is confused
21:33:19 [nkd]
give me a sec
21:33:24 [Psychephylax]
lol ok
21:33:30 [Psychephylax]
one mississippi
21:33:32 [Psychephylax]
time is up!
21:33:34 [Psychephylax]
ding ding ding
21:33:43 [nkd]
this is an error in snmp_incident
21:34:42 [Psychephylax]
ok
21:34:46 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax loads that up into emacs
21:34:57 [Psychephylax]
hmmm
21:37:10 [Psychephylax]
aha
21:37:11 [Psychephylax]
I know
21:37:21 [Psychephylax]
I think I didn't rerun the creation scripts
21:41:24 [Psychephylax]
sure
21:41:27 [Psychephylax]
I'm working on this
21:41:34 [Psychephylax]
my create/drop is messed up again
21:41:37 [Psychephylax]
with the changes I made
21:47:52 [Psychephylax]
ok
21:47:54 [Psychephylax]
fixed
21:47:55 [Psychephylax]
but no
21:48:25 [nkd]
what's the problem?
21:48:43 [Psychephylax]
ora8.c:3568:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-06502: PL/SQL: numeric or value error: character to number conversion error
21:49:04 [Psychephylax]
i must have something that's whacky :)
21:49:31 [nkd]
count 10 missisipis :)
21:50:07 [Psychephylax]
heh
21:50:11 [Psychephylax]
got a question
21:50:20 [Psychephylax]
if incident_id is calculated from acs_objects
21:50:26 [Psychephylax]
is the default still "NULL"?
21:50:28 [nkd]
this doesn't look very good: object_id => incident_id,
21:50:36 [nkd]
yes
21:50:40 [nkd]
remove that line
21:51:22 [Psychephylax]
well, what's that doing?
21:51:30 [nkd]
which?
21:51:43 [Psychephylax]
the one you told me to remove
21:51:56 [Psychephylax]
I was under the impression that it took the stuff and assigned it the id of the object
21:52:54 [nkd]
acs_object.new will create your object and return the object_id. Then you store it in v_content_id which is returned and stored into incident_id (in the tcl page).
21:53:02 [Psychephylax]
oh
21:53:06 [Psychephylax]
so I don't need the line
21:53:11 [nkd]
no
21:53:46 [Psychephylax]
?
21:56:26 [Psychephylax]
what type of an error is this so I have something to look for
21:56:40 [nkd]
which?
21:57:36 [Psychephylax]
the one that I'm getting now
21:57:47 [Psychephylax]
character to number conversion error?
21:58:15 [nkd]
do you still get that? (have you removed the line and reload)
21:58:30 [Psychephylax]
which line?
21:58:44 [Psychephylax]
the object_id => incident_id, one?
21:58:52 [nkd]
object_id => incident_id
21:59:02 [Psychephylax]
i commented it out with --
21:59:26 [nkd]
try removing it
21:59:27 [vinod]
vinod has quit
21:59:35 [Psychephylax]
ok
21:59:42 [nkd]
and reload
22:00:01 [nkd]
reload:drop/create
22:00:34 [Psychephylax]
yup, did that
22:00:39 [Psychephylax]
still get the error :/
22:00:43 [nkd]
is it working now?
22:01:01 [Psychephylax]
no
22:01:04 [Psychephylax]
same exact error
22:01:25 [nkd]
could you send me your table definition
22:01:38 [Psychephylax]
i'll send you the whole file and the page
22:01:48 [nkd]
ok, that's better
22:03:47 [Psychephylax]
sent
22:05:17 [nkd]
you forgot to remove the space
22:05:28 [nkd]
s/remove/insert
22:06:49 [Psychephylax]
where?
22:07:09 [nkd]
:=acs_object.new
22:07:28 [Psychephylax]
oh
22:07:33 [Psychephylax]
I moved the part on the right
22:07:34 [Psychephylax]
hehe
22:08:09 [Psychephylax]
but that's not the problem :/
22:08:18 [Psychephylax]
I'm thinking it might have to do with one of these
22:08:28 [Psychephylax]
where I have number (10)
22:08:34 [Psychephylax]
does that account for real numbers
22:08:44 [Psychephylax]
and also, what happens if the number I insert is longer than 10
22:09:49 [nkd]
I don't think that's it but try to remove the insert so that you can isolate the problem
22:10:10 [Psychephylax]
remove insert?
22:10:27 [nkd]
from snmp_incident
22:11:11 [Psychephylax]
oh
22:11:47 [Psychephylax]
I'm commenting it out :P
22:13:07 [Psychephylax]
question
22:13:16 [nkd]
yes
22:13:17 [Psychephylax]
do I have to restart Aolserver for the affect to take place?
22:13:28 [nkd]
no
22:13:32 [Psychephylax]
just making sure
22:13:38 [Psychephylax]
ok, I'm still getting the same problem
22:13:42 [Psychephylax]
with insert commented out
22:14:01 [nkd]
just drop/create after you change snmp_incident
22:14:18 [Psychephylax]
i did that...
22:15:33 [Psychephylax]
i wish mark was here
22:15:37 [Psychephylax]
he's the oracle guru
22:16:24 [Psychephylax]
bah
22:16:39 [Psychephylax]
hang on
22:18:36 [Psychephylax]
hello?
22:18:43 [rbm]
who's there?
22:18:47 [Psychephylax]
not I
22:18:52 [rbm]
me either
22:19:01 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax hides in a floppy drive
22:19:24 [Psychephylax]
nkd ?
22:19:30 [nkd]
here
22:19:40 [Psychephylax]
BitchX msg flood protection kicked in
22:19:44 [Psychephylax]
I got 3 lines and that's it
22:19:50 [nkd]
oh
22:20:35 [Psychephylax]
I opened a query so you can try again if you want
22:21:20 [nkd]
got it
22:21:22 [nkd]
?
22:21:26 [Psychephylax]
got what?
22:21:31 [Psychephylax]
nope :(
22:21:49 [Psychephylax]
just e-mail it then
22:23:32 [Psychephylax]
?
22:23:35 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax pokes nkd
22:23:51 [nkd]
here
22:24:02 [Psychephylax]
You gonna e-mail it?
22:24:15 [Psychephylax]
or just describe to me where the problem is
22:24:30 [nkd]
sending email
22:24:33 [talli]
talli has quit
22:24:37 [nkd]
nkd has quit
22:24:52 [nkd_]
nkd_ has joined #openacs
22:25:02 [Psychephylax]
wb
22:25:31 [nkd_]
sending email
22:25:52 [NKD]
NKD has joined #OpenACS
22:25:57 [Psychephylax]
ok
22:26:03 [NKD]
Dont take my nick please nkd_
22:26:08 [NKD]
I hate having to kick your ass
22:26:09 [NKD]
kthx
22:26:11 [NKD]
NKD has left #OpenACS
22:26:17 [Psychephylax]
?
22:26:50 [Psychephylax]
did I miss something?
22:26:58 [nkd_]
who's that
22:26:59 [nkd_]
?
22:27:07 [rbm]
apparently nkd was a nick that was registered
22:27:12 [Psychephylax]
heh
22:27:15 [nkd_]
what's that
22:27:15 [nkd_]
?
22:27:18 [Psychephylax]
ok, how do i register a nick
22:27:30 [rbm]
You can register a nick with nickserv. /msg nickserv help
22:27:40 [nkd_]
brb
22:27:43 [nkd_]
nkd_ has left #openacs
22:28:02 [rbm]
My nick, for example, is registered. I need to provide a password everytime I connect to be able to use it.
22:28:11 [Psychephylax]
k
22:28:16 [rbm]
If somebody takes it while I'm gone, when I come back, I can kick that person out.
22:28:17 [Psychephylax]
I know about *servs
22:28:21 [Psychephylax]
we have them on DalNet
22:28:24 [k2pts]
k2pts has joined #openacs
22:28:33 [k2pts]
nkd
22:28:35 [Psychephylax]
still no file
22:28:43 [k2pts]
haven't send it yet
22:28:45 [Psychephylax]
oh
22:28:46 [Psychephylax]
heh
22:29:05 [Psychephylax]
oh
22:29:09 [Psychephylax]
stupid blockage
22:34:08 [Psychephylax]
any ideas?
22:36:34 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax wonders if everyone went to a party without him
22:37:08 [rbm]
* rbm hasn't been to a party in a long time.
22:37:27 [Psychephylax]
we should have one =)
22:37:42 [Psychephylax]
k2pts you still with the living?
22:39:26 [Psychephylax]
oh ok
22:43:06 [Psychephylax]
heh
22:43:23 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
22:43:45 [k2pts]
k2pts has joined #openacs
22:44:48 [hazmat]
hazmat has joined #openacs
22:44:59 [k2pts]
hi hazmat
22:45:01 [Psychephylax]
hi
22:45:10 [hazmat]
hi folks
22:49:04 [Psychephylax]
:) http://www.orafaq.com/error/ora-01722.htm
22:49:38 [Psychephylax]
hmm
22:56:02 [Psychephylax]
i think it's something to do with date maybe
22:56:19 [Psychephylax]
oh crap
22:58:10 [Psychephylax]
I bet you it's something like where I Have: set problem_id "1" should be set problem_id 1
22:59:40 [k2pts]
not that's not it
23:02:12 [ola]
ola has quit
23:04:15 [Psychephylax]
hmm
23:04:17 [Psychephylax]
maybe this is it
23:04:48 [k2pts]
which?
23:07:14 [Psychephylax]
i think one of my vars is not setting anymore and I don't know why
23:08:54 [Psychephylax]
i'm going home shorty just fiddling with this now
23:08:55 [talli]
talli has joined #openacs
23:08:59 [Psychephylax]
hi talli
23:09:09 [talli]
hey. just looking for vinod.
23:09:16 [talli]
now i go away. bye bye
23:09:21 [talli]
talli has quit
23:13:53 [Psychephylax]
I'm not going to break my head over this on a friday night
23:13:55 [Psychephylax]
I'm going home
23:14:07 [Psychephylax]
I'm one of the few people left anyways
23:14:28 [Psychephylax]
see ya guys later
23:14:37 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax looks forward to sitting in traffic
23:15:52 [k2pts]
bye Psychephylax
23:21:44 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit
23:21:51 [k2pts]
k2pts has left #openacs
23:29:33 [graszew]
graszew has quit
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23:55:20 [davb]
Wow: A live feed of: UCF Volleyball vs. Georgia St. AIM UCFKnightsports
23:55:25 [davb]
I love the internet!
23:56:33 [Psychephylax]
heh
23:57:58 [davb]
crap. I can't find any streaming music. What good is bandwidth if you can't use it.
23:58:28 [davb]
Of course, noone supports Linux. I need a windows box to use the players.
23:58:35 [davb]
Or just buy more CDs.