00:26:05 davb has joined #OpenACS 00:37:06 * davb triumphantly returns! 00:37:36 My drive was literally fscked. It had quite a few errors, hopefully its all fixed now, i don't know if I lost any data yet. 00:43:49 * davb reloads the datamodel 00:47:21 davb: Install a Journaled File System 01:02:11 good idea. 01:02:21 I have to get my kernel up to 2.4 first I think. 01:02:47 I don't know why that happened, its the first time. I told it to shutdown the official way. 01:10:06 Mozilla 0.9.5 is great! 01:10:22 davb: I agree! 01:10:28 I order everyone still using netscape 4 to upgrade immediately! 01:10:29 :) 01:10:36 I'm using Moz exclusively now 01:10:39 (on win2k) 01:10:51 Also my machine screams not that I have enough RAM 01:11:07 it's surprising to me how quickly it got good 01:11:18 from unstable heaps 01:11:27 (0.9.1, etc..) 01:11:38 to something that can actually be used every day. 01:11:47 yes. I love CTRL-T. It has tabs, but handles pop-up windows without screwing up all of them. 01:11:59 ctrl-T rocks 01:12:00 It's too bad for Opera. 01:13:34 yeah. opera is suddenly going to become useless 01:21:39 davb has quit 01:21:39 docwolf has quit 01:21:39 rbm has quit 01:21:47 rbm has joined #openacs 01:21:50 davb has joined #OpenACS 02:02:51 bah 02:04:48 argh! 02:04:51 Hi spork. 02:05:11 I am back to where I started this morning. 02:07:09 damn. I have 320MB RAM and its still all used up. 02:07:26 holy crap. FreeAMP is 10M 02:08:01 not only that there are three of them taking up 10M floating around in there. 02:13:17 hi dave 02:13:29 what OS are you using? 02:13:47 Linux 2.2.19 02:13:57 Mozilla is 32M 02:14:12 And you're running out of Memory on THAT? 02:14:12 I don't see postgresql or AOLserver in top 02:14:23 Well I got alot of crap going. 02:14:29 Well that's your fault ;) 02:14:34 yeah. 02:14:38 I have a P200 with 80 megs of ram and I have not had any problems 02:14:49 It's my mail. ftp, http server 02:14:58 No problems. It's way more responsive than before. 02:15:27 I'll have to learn what's hogging all the RAM though. 02:15:27 Granted it's not a very very speedy and won't hold up if I get linked from Fox or /. but hey...it does some serving 02:15:58 run top 02:17:15 yeah. I got a console mp3 player, down frm 10M to ! 02:17:17 1 that is 02:17:48 18M for AOLserver 7 for postgres 02:18:02 I wonder where its all going. 02:18:35 Ahh the mysteries of searchign for lost memory 02:18:45 Are you sure your kernel knows it's got that much ram? 02:18:53 Sometimes you have to recompile 02:18:56 Top says its using 310 M 02:19:03 Hang on 02:19:22 paste your top output 02:19:33 k 02:19:37 It might be that your kernel claims it's using that much but it just "claims" it 02:19:54 18:29:31 up 3:09, 2 users, load average: 0.18, 0.36, 0.40 02:19:55 76 processes: 73 sleeping, 3 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped 02:19:55 CPU states: 22.7% user, 7.2% system, 0.0% nice, 70.1% idle 02:19:55 Mem: 322708K total, 316108K used, 6600K free, 52804K buffers 02:19:55 Swap: 1052216K total, 0K used, 1052216K free, 143660K cached 02:19:55 PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT PU %MEM TIME COMMAND 02:19:58 555 root 17 -10 57736 23M 4480 R < 23.6 7.5 21:27 XFree86 02:20:00 599 nsadmin 4 0 5632 5632 1984 R 3.2 1.7 1:15 enlightenment 02:20:02 1676 nsadmin 6 0 1008 1008 784 R 2.3 0.3 0:00 top 02:20:04 655 nsadmin 1 0 4772 4772 3540 S 0.3 1.4 0:09 gnome-terminal 02:20:06 612 nsadmin 0 0 5844 5844 4128 S 0.1 1.8 0:04 panel 02:20:08 657 nsadmin 0 0 5780 5776 4200 S 0.1 1.7 0:04 xchat 02:20:10 846 nsadmin 0 0 18448 18M 2328 S 0.1 5.7 0:03 nsd 02:20:12 i just wanted the top 02:20:12 1 root 0 0 520 520 452 S 0.0 0.1 0:05 init 02:20:13 2 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:00 kflushd 02:20:15 3 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:03 kupdate 02:20:18 4 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:03 kswapd 02:20:20 5 root 0 0 0 0 0 SW 0.0 0.0 0:00 keventd 02:20:22 161 root 0 0 424 424 368 S 0.0 0.1 0:00 dhcpcd 02:20:24 166 daemon 0 0 448 448 368 S 0.0 0.1 0:00 portmap 02:20:26 224 root 0 0 636 636 520 S 0.0 0.1 0:00 syslogd 02:20:28 227 root 0 0 872 872 452 S 0.0 0.2 0:00 klogd 02:20:30 239 root 0 0 508 508 444 S 0.0 0.1 0:00 dhcpcd 02:20:32 hah! take that! :) 02:20:34 ok. hang on 02:20:37 18:30:07 up 3:10, 2 users, load average: 0.33, 0.37, 0.40 02:20:39 77 processes: 75 sleeping, 2 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped 02:20:42 CPU states: 41.6% user, 4.4% system, 0.0% nice, 54.0% idle 02:20:44 Mem: 322580K total, 316212K used, 6368K free, 52804K buffers 02:20:46 Swap: 1052216K total, 0K used, 1052216K free, 143672K cached 02:20:48 I think my swap is busted. It always says 0k used. 02:20:53 no 02:20:54 that's right 02:20:59 oh cool. 02:21:05 think about it...if it's got lots of memory why would it want to swap? 02:21:19 You swap if you can't hold stuff in RAM 02:21:26 Right. 02:21:40 Also, if I recall correctly (shoots in the dark) 02:21:50 Linux is funky the way it tells info 02:21:55 Let me ask my genius friend to verify 02:21:55 could be. 02:22:30 cool. 02:24:33 davb has changed the topic to: Welcome to: Analyzing dab's memory usage 02:24:53 Spork has changed the topic to: Analyzing davb's memory usage 02:25:10 davb has changed the topic to: I am not a sysadmin, but I play one on IRC 02:25:18 Linux doesn't handle swap very well right now, and it won't swap active pages out of memory until it has no choice but to do so. Currently, with the 2.4 kernel series, there are some VERY serious memory management problems. Your friend should try using the 2.2 kernel series if his hardware is supported by it. 02:25:29 From my genius friend 02:25:48 So, go with freebsd! :) 02:25:53 Cool. I am using 2.2 02:26:23 Right now, there are some people that can't use Linux 2.4 for more than a couple days before it starts starving itself of swap space, eventually leading to either 1) kernel panic 2) swapping activity that may last for hours 02:26:54 wow, incredible. 02:27:02 I've seen it happen 02:27:07 I had a similar problem like that 02:27:14 But it was caused by my stupidity 02:27:17 cool. I will stick with 2.2 for a little while then. 02:27:26 k 02:27:33 the problems are probably being fixed, but right now the only good solution I've read about involves merging a whole bunch of different patches into the stock kernel, or use Alan Cox's kernel 02:28:09 I kinda liked leaving X running on my slow box and I think one of the little programs that I left running had a leak 02:28:20 so every 2 or 3 days my box would starve itself and just go nuts 02:28:27 I thought I was being hacked :) 02:29:38 heh 02:30:59 I can crash my box wel enough myself thank you very much. 02:32:20 heh 02:34:33 I have difficulty now 02:34:52 :) 02:35:27 that's a long ass time 02:38:21 not bad. 02:38:28 going for 100 :) 02:38:35 then 150...Gonna try a year 02:38:41 I wonder if olympus has a Linux driver for my camera/flashpath adapter. 02:39:42 nope. 02:42:14 I found a press release but no software from smartdisk. 02:42:44 What camera? 02:43:00 Is it usb? 02:43:31 Olympus D400. It has smartmedia. I have a $100 smartmedia/floppy adapter. Supposedly there is linux software for it. 02:43:38 400? 02:43:46 you sure not 460 or 490? 02:44:24 nope its old 02:44:39 see: Driver Availability 02:44:39 FlashPath for SmartMedia Linux drivers are now available from SmartDisk's Web site at www.smartdisk.com. 02:44:43 liars 02:46:09 there is nothing about linux on their web site anywhere! 02:46:21 hmm 02:47:17 they don't even have the linux press release on their web site. 02:47:35 its from June 2000. 02:48:02 hmm 02:48:11 Maybe they didn't get it to work the way they wanted it 02:48:36 yeah, maybe, but its like it never existed. 02:49:05 I really think I am going to buy a Mac. 02:49:22 Linux is cool for web and other development, but sucks for multimedia. 02:51:03 yeah 02:51:24 But Macs you will be paying an arm and a leg for Mac software versions 02:51:57 Not any more than the PC versions of the same stuff. I am talking photoshop, etc... 02:52:04 yeah 02:52:06 me too 02:52:17 I think it's like 50-100$ more for same products mac side 02:52:33 I think you can get them for a reasonable price. 02:52:38 Anyway I don't care. 02:52:47 :/ 02:52:51 The new Apples are really cool. 02:52:57 yeah faster too 02:52:59 Also the run BSD underneath. 02:53:06 yep 02:53:08 The new G5 is really fast. 02:56:30 I sent them an email with a link to the press release on their own web site. 02:56:56 davb has changed the topic to: OpenACS - Free Web Toolkit - http://openacs.org 03:01:32 Well, hopefully they'll reply :) 03:07:03 wow! its 7:16 03:07:13 apparently my clock got messed up. 03:07:26 Anyone interested in free O'Reilly books? 03:07:39 Ummmm sure. 03:08:14 I got that in a mailing list 03:08:25 woah. 03:10:20 oh yeah. I have to finish those CDs for you guys! 03:10:35 rbm: got time for a postgresql/openacs question? 03:10:50 davb: sure 03:11:24 oops 03:11:25 * rbm kicks davb to finish those CDs :) 03:11:27 OK. in static_page__delete_stale_items it deletes all the static_pages then goes to delete the static_folders. But it says the folders are not empty. 03:11:58 Is it possible the delete_folder function call is seeing the static_pages before the deletes are committed? 03:12:24 Are they called within the same function? 03:13:06 yes. static_page__delete_stale_items calls page_delete then folder_delete 03:13:24 are you sure page_delet is doing its job right? 03:13:36 yes. 03:14:03 It seems to. 03:14:13 A function, when called, is on its own transaction, so if one folder_delete would see the rows deleted. 03:14:24 I can call static_page__delete from psql and that works fine. 03:14:30 Even if its inside another function? 03:14:32 davb: hmmm. 03:14:33 Yes 03:14:45 ok. I'll think about it tomorrow. 03:14:57 After fixing my drive I made it all the way back to where I was started this morning. 03:15:16 Thanks! 03:15:59 For what? 03:16:07 listening. 03:16:35 Oh, ok :) 03:17:18 In that case, you're welcome 03:18:36 looks like I volunteered for another OpenACS project. A general-keywords interface to provide keyword services to other packages. 03:19:02 ARGH! 03:19:03 I swear 03:19:05 I hate computers 03:19:11 I think I'll be a farmer 03:19:17 heh. me too. I'm getting a slide rule 03:19:37 Apparently the END of one of the lectures is broken. 03:20:20 at least mkisofs doesn't like it. I am trying a traditional copy of the actual files. 03:32:20 Wow. Cable modem makes an excellent foot-warmer 03:34:12 davb: have a pentium chip around? They are pretty good warmers too 03:39:21 yeah. I have a couple of those. Actually a cr recorder is an excellent heat source also. 03:39:37 hazmat has joined #openacs 03:40:19 monitors work best 03:40:28 Here is yet another testimony that MySQL developers (the team that codes the server itself) are all on crack and have no idea of what they are doing (and coding): http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/innodb1.htm 03:40:32 They simply lack an understanding of the concepts of the relational model. 03:40:38 "More evidence (as if it were necessary) comes from an exchange with the developer of Innobase, a product which he refers to as InnoDB and describes as a "back-end which provides transactions to MySQL". The exchange demonstrates that not only the relational model, but also the most basic database concepts are poorly, if at all, understood (the description of the product itself reveals a misconception, can you figure it out?)." 03:40:59 http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/innodb1.htm 03:41:00 E: http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/innodb1.htm from rbm 03:41:26 E:| See why MySQL and InnoDB are worthless 03:41:26 titled item E 03:41:47 E: very enlightening site about relational databases in general 03:41:48 commented item E 03:42:02 Have you read any of their books? 03:42:33 davb: Not yet. 03:43:37 Me neither. Just wondering. 03:45:57 This kills me: " This is semantics, but I think Codd and Date in the 70s meant by a relational database something which has a relational query language. Thus any database which has a query language somewhat similar to the relational algebra or SQL can be called a relational database." 03:46:15 yeah, they did all that math for fun! 03:46:52 davb: I know!! The MySQL team never ceases to amaze me with their complete lack of understanding of the relational model. 03:47:11 Its just a suggestion. 03:49:46 I have to stop reading. its too scary. 03:51:17 * rbm falls on the floor 03:56:18 argh. I wonder if I can find those lectures somewhere. 03:56:46 There are 10 of them, two parts each. The second part of the 5th lecture is broken. I can't copy the file. Weird I can watch the beginning. 03:57:03 Maybe a MS Windows CD copying program will work. 03:58:06 http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci769023,00.html?dgExplicitTieredReg=&dgImplicitTieredReg=%7B%3EttTaxonomy%3EsearchDatabase%3EEmail%3ETips+and+Columns%7D&dgOptInTieredReg=true&dgTieredRegLocation=Tips&FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F284872 03:58:06 F: http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci769023,00.html?dgExplicitTieredReg=&dgImplicitTieredReg=%7B%3EttTaxonomy%3EsearchDatabase%3EEmail%3ETips+and+Columns%7D&dgOptInTieredReg=true&dgTieredRegLocation=Tips&FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F284872 from davb 03:58:22 F:| OO for App Development not database management 03:58:22 titled item F 03:58:42 F: some why OO is bad with relational DB, for Talli 03:58:42 commented item F 03:59:10 F: "As to encapsulation, it raises issues much more serious than performance (the logical/physical confusion again). A major one is that OO encapsulation essentially means that there is no such thing as ad-hoc querying. Any operation (method) that the object programmer has not built into the object is simply not available to the user." 03:59:10 commented item F 03:59:42 later 03:59:44 davb has quit 03:59:50 davb: how do we recall from chump the various items? 04:00:09 how do we recall from chump the various items? 04:00:33 ?? chump 04:00:40 A: 04:00:41 http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002wj&topic_id=14&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Testing 04:00:42 Thread on host_node_map 04:00:47 B: 04:00:47 http://digitalmass.boston.com/news/globe_tech/at_large/2001/1022.html 04:00:50 C: 04:00:51 http://www.alistapart.com/stories/emen/ 04:00:51 The Trouble with EM 'n EN 04:00:52 (davb) from A List Apart 04:00:53 (davb) proper typesetting marks in HTML 4.0? 04:00:53 D: 04:00:55 http://www.pinds.com/acs-tips/tcl-data-structures 04:00:56 Datastructures in Tcl 04:00:57 (talli) lars is smart 04:00:57 E: 04:00:59 http://www.firstsql.com/dbdebunk/innodb1.htm 04:01:00 F: 04:01:01 See why MySQL and InnoDB are worthless 04:01:03 (davb) very enlightening site about relational databases in general 04:01:04 G: 04:01:07 http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci769023,00.html?dgExplicitTieredReg=&dgImplicitTieredReg=%7B%3EttTaxonomy%3EsearchDatabase%3EEmail%3ETips+and+Columns%7D&dgOptInTieredReg=true&dgTieredRegLocation=Tips&FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F284872 04:01:11 OO for App Development not database management 04:01:13 (davb) some why OO is bad with relational DB, for Talli 04:01:14 H: 04:01:15 (davb) "As to encapsulation, it raises issues much more serious than performance (the logical/physical confusion again). A major one is that OO encapsulation essentially means that there is no such thing as ad-hoc querying. Any operation (method) that the object programmer has not built into the object is simply not available to the user." 04:01:20 I: 04:01:21 Label G not found. 04:01:23 Label H not found. 04:01:25 Label I not found. 04:01:35 john has quit 04:06:06 I give up 04:06:41 hazmat has quit 04:07:10 hazmat has joined #openacs 05:01:31 :C 05:01:37 C: 05:01:38 http://www.alistapart.com/stories/emen/ 05:01:39 The Trouble with EM 'n EN 05:01:40 (davb) from A List Apart 05:01:41 (davb) proper typesetting marks in HTML 4.0? 05:01:49 D: 05:01:49 http://www.pinds.com/acs-tips/tcl-data-structures 05:01:50 Datastructures in Tcl 05:01:51 (talli) lars is smart 06:08:15 hazmat has quit 06:08:15 abbaJ has quit 06:08:15 chump has quit 06:08:15 rbm has quit 06:08:15 GEM_ has quit 06:31:22 hazmat has joined #openacs 06:33:23 GEM_ has joined #openacs 06:33:23 chump has joined #openacs 06:33:23 abbaJ has joined #openacs 06:33:23 rbm has joined #openacs 06:46:10 JonHogan has joined #openacs 06:48:34 i read on the forum that there is a bug in ns_mkdir but can not find any for than a passing comment, for ACS3.2.5 anyone have more detail? 06:55:37 no idea 07:19:41 Spork has quit 07:20:05 hazmat has quit 07:21:26 Spork has joined #openacs 07:29:32 JonHogan has left #openacs 10:45:16 nkd has joined #openacs 10:57:35 ola has joined #openacs 10:57:47 ola has quit 11:02:06 nkd has left #openacs 11:23:59 abbaJ has quit 11:23:59 chump has quit 11:23:59 rbm has quit 11:23:59 GEM_ has quit 11:23:59 Spork has quit 12:22:55 rbm has joined #openacs 12:22:55 abbaJ has joined #openacs 12:22:55 chump has joined #openacs 12:22:55 GEM_ has joined #openacs 12:22:55 Spork has joined #openacs 12:22:55 til has joined #openacs 12:52:43 til has quit 12:53:04 til has joined #openacs 12:56:35 davb has joined #openacs 13:00:33 ola has joined #openacs 13:00:43 hi all! 13:01:38 Howdy ola! 13:02:11 downloading RedHat 7.2 at the moment.. 13:02:18 Good luck! 13:04:06 thanks, it's actually going pretty fast. two ISOs at the same time, both downloading at a speed of 140K/sec. 13:06:25 ext3, reiserfs or XFS? - that's the question. 13:07:15 maybe I'll try ext3 since it's the default with RH 7.2. 13:24:58 not bad. try ext3. Its cool because you can mount it as ext2 in an emergency. 13:33:31 markd2 has joined #openacs 13:33:59 'moaning 13:35:25 Hey markd2! 13:36:35 back from my folks's now 13:36:44 for a day. then we head to Virginia to play a concert :-) 13:37:11 Wow, you are really busy! 13:37:21 end of october, december, and may are busy times 13:37:28 How was the return trip? 13:37:48 of the 4 opportunities for being 'randomly selected' at the airports, I got hit 3 times 13:37:50 >:-( 13:38:11 Again? 13:38:16 yep 13:38:19 that was the trip back 13:38:36 2 flights (4 planes), I'm running a 75% 'random' rate 13:38:39 Wow. They must be using a MS random number generator instead of Linux. 13:38:45 heh 13:39:00 The same one that generates the TCP offset :) 13:39:08 heh^2 13:40:53 We got an apple store at the local mall. Its very cool. I definitely want one of those laptops. 13:45:36 sweet! 13:47:02 The new mouse is cool, but Apple really should at least OFFER a mulibutton mouse. 13:48:18 an Exciting Third Party Opportunity 13:51:47 morning all 13:52:05 Hi rbm. 13:53:51 markd2: are you going to stop in Utah for our Free Software Forum (with Bruce Perens)? :) 13:54:04 heh. too far to drive 13:54:14 take good notes for me 13:54:20 I've too much bad stuff about RH 7.2 to even touch it 13:55:16 Hey you can't get a superdrive with the powerbook. 13:59:29 even with the speedbumped models? 14:00:09 It wasn't an option. I think it wont fit in the case. 14:01:47 unless they haven't updated the online store. 14:04:24 I hang on to machines for at least 2 years before lusting after the next model 14:04:33 so I'm not due back at the apple store until at least april 2003 14:05:14 Good idea. My machine is like 3 years old and my laptop is over 6 years old. 14:05:45 Anyway if I get a Mac it's just a Microsoft freedom tax. 14:10:33 The Apple laptops are cool. 14:10:40 I wish they'd sell them with Linux installed :) 14:10:51 At least it's OS X 14:10:56 Well its close anyway. And it has a better UI. 14:11:06 and you can always wipe the disk and put yellow dog or linux ppc on 14:11:16 I think THE PERFORMER does that 14:11:17 I just need to get my work done. I don't need no super-pretty UI. 14:11:50 yeah. gimme emacs or gimme death! 14:11:56 Of course. 14:12:26 Emacs question because I am too lazy to look it up. How do I open more than one shell? 14:12:35 M-x shell sends me to the already open one. 14:16:40 * rbm heads to campus 14:17:36 rename the shell buffer 14:17:41 M-x rename-buffer 14:17:47 I keep three shells around 14:18:02 cleverly named '123', 'qwe', and 'asd' 14:18:10 makes it very fast to switch shells 14:18:15 aha! 14:20:04 no wonder you are so efficient! 14:20:16 I even have a system to what goes in which shell 14:20:34 '123' has the tail -f of the error log, 'qwe' is my roving around source code shell, and 'asd' is my database / sqlplus session 14:21:29 aha. 14:21:41 I am always typing *SQL* etc... duh. 14:48:50 this is cool: 14:48:55 http://www.gnod.net 14:48:55 A: http://www.gnod.net from davb 14:49:03 A:|Global Network of Dreams 14:49:03 titled item A 14:49:06 til has quit 14:49:16 A: U little web site that trys to guess what you might like 14:49:17