IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:11:52 [davb]
darn, talli left.
00:13:47 [davb]
back to the Yahoo Store
00:16:43 [davb]
Spork: are you around?
00:27:43 [vinod]
vinod has joined #openacs
00:30:40 [davb]
Hi vinod
00:31:14 [vinod]
hey dave!
00:32:45 [davb]
http://www.wohl.com/wa0156.htm
00:32:45 [chump]
F: http://www.wohl.com/wa0156.htm from davb
00:33:06 [davb]
F:|Amy Wohl - Blogging and Knowledge Management
00:33:06 [chump]
titled item F
00:35:55 [davb]
argh! Yahoo store is sluggish tonight. Time to work on static-pages
00:37:35 [davb]
Emacs is my favorite IDE. I have a couple of SQL and TCL files, sql-postgres and a shell or two.
00:38:15 [davb]
I figured out how to reverse that regexp too.
00:40:15 [vinod]
cool - emacs rocks!
00:40:37 [davb]
yeah. Now I just have to debug my plpgsql. It says parse error at 'select'
00:40:49 [vinod]
real helpful, huh?
00:41:12 [davb]
yeah. and i tried the query in psql, it works fine. So I left it for a couple hours.
00:41:33 [davb]
pl/pgsql isn't picky about whitespace is it?
00:41:59 [vinod]
no, shouldn't be
00:42:10 [davb]
ok. I am just grasping here.
00:42:50 [davb]
argh. Yeah store.yahoo is hosed.
00:43:24 [davb]
probably my fault...
01:03:41 [hazmat]
hazmat has quit
01:15:31 [davb]
http://www.openwire.com/web/archives/00000183.php
01:15:31 [chump]
G: http://www.openwire.com/web/archives/00000183.php from davb
01:15:49 [davb]
G:|Linked: Meyers-Briggs type and Girl Scout cookies
01:15:49 [chump]
titled item G
01:15:56 [davb]
G: markd2 would love this
01:15:56 [chump]
commented item G
01:16:42 [davb]
G: they are doing a survey to validate their theory
01:16:42 [chump]
commented item G
01:18:29 [davb]
G: Go NOW and contribute
01:18:30 [chump]
commented item G
01:19:19 [davb]
Unfortunately so far, doesn't seem to be correlating.
01:19:40 [davb]
is 12 minutes too long to wait for an HTTP POST?
01:23:53 [vinod]
i would think so, but i suppose it depends on how much data at what speed (and what is happening on the server)
01:25:19 [davb]
Apparently their server is less than speedy tonight.
01:26:55 [davb]
scary, they are patenting parts of people now. Thats way worse than software patents. You'll have to pay royalties to have a kid!
01:27:07 [davb]
http://www.killyourtv.com/archives/00000389.shtml
01:35:12 [davb]
hmmm
01:35:23 [davb]
my static-pages-init.tcl is not getting loaded
01:39:46 [davb]
nevermind, its my fault missing }
01:41:34 [davb]
vinod: are you a self-taught hacker?
01:44:32 [vinod]
yup (if i can call myself "taught")
01:44:52 [davb]
heh
01:45:51 [vinod]
i'd love to get a more formal education, but i haven't decided if it's worth it yet
01:46:06 [davb]
Time or money-wise?
01:46:23 [davb]
I would love to learn the stuff you learn in a formal CS curriculum.
01:46:29 [vinod]
time (which some say is money :-) )
01:46:51 [davb]
Basically I want to understand what David McCusker is talking about in his weblog. http://www.treedragon.com
01:47:02 [vinod]
yeah, me too - we should get markd2 to mentor us in his newfound spare time :-)
01:47:32 [davb]
Yeah, i understand. Well I put about $2000 worth of software and computer science books in my Amazon wish list. Imagine if I had to pay for tuition too!
01:47:37 [davb]
Yeha markd2 is good.
01:48:31 [davb]
Also, I am a little short in degrees. Just two associates.
01:48:33 [vinod]
were you the one that pointed me to http://www.htdp.org ?
01:48:49 [davb]
I don't think so. But I have seen it. SICP is better I think.
01:49:09 [davb]
I bought it $70 right after I read PANDA
01:49:14 [vinod]
yeah, but SICP is painful - i'm about halfway through and it just puts me to sleep
01:49:34 [davb]
I will make a copy of the lectures for you. They are pretty good.
01:49:52 [davb]
One of these days I'll snag an 80G drive and get the rest from aduni.org
01:49:55 [rbm]
Hey, I want a copy too!
01:50:00 [vinod]
cool - are these the aduni lectures?
01:50:12 [rbm]
I liked SICP.
01:50:18 [vinod]
rbm is too smart as it is
01:50:27 [rbm]
I wish!
01:50:28 [davb]
They are from aduni,org, they are MIT lectures by Abelson and Sussman themselves.
01:50:48 [davb]
I think they took those down because they are copyright MIT
01:51:03 [rbm]
davb: I want those!!
01:51:35 [davb]
yeah, its 13 CD's I think.
01:51:49 [davb]
actually 12.
01:52:27 [davb]
I will email you my address. I need a mailer that will fit 12 CDRs in tyvek sleeves with postage
01:52:58 [rbm]
davb: Yes please. I'll mail you the 12 CDs with return postage paid and whateverp
01:53:06 [davb]
OK.
01:53:21 [rbm]
anyone here play Q3?
01:53:37 [rbm]
s/play/plays/ (?)
01:54:20 [vinod]
davb: i'd love to get copies too (I'll need to buy some CD-R's this wknd)
01:54:48 [davb]
vinod: or send my $5, I have plenty of CDRs
01:54:59 [vinod]
davb: cool!
01:55:37 [rbm]
davb: Oh, can I do that? That'd be easier for me actually. Do you have a PayPal account?
01:55:41 [vinod]
rbm: i played quake back in the day, but I'm no good at those shoot-em-ups anymore
01:55:52 [davb]
yeah, let me figure it out...
01:56:12 [rbm]
vinod: I thought I wasn't either. But with the mods for Q3 you can have much more fun than just the shoot-them-ups.
01:56:25 [davb]
I still like Half-Life
01:56:30 [rbm]
vinod: For example, the other day I grabbed a module called "Capture the Chicken" and it was way too much fun :)
01:56:37 [davb]
heh
01:56:43 [vinod]
will q3 run on an amd k6 500 mhz?
01:56:55 [rbm]
<-- has an AMD K62 300
01:57:02 [rbm]
Oh wait, K6 only?
01:57:04 [rbm]
dunn
01:57:10 [rbm]
s/$/o/
01:57:40 [vinod]
* vinod needs a new computer
01:57:40 [rbm]
maybe, with a good video card and taking off the fancier graphics
02:03:13 [rbm]
Anyone here doing credit card processing?
02:03:36 [vinod]
not me
02:03:42 [davb]
I tried to use PayPal, but I wouldn't advise it.
02:03:56 [davb]
my client backed out, otherwise I would have finished it
02:04:10 [rbm]
I was thinking of using either authorize.net, Verisign's PayFlow Pro, or Red Hat's CCVS
02:08:21 [davb]
I haven't checked into those. Probably the easiest is one that has an HTTPS interface.
02:10:25 [rbm]
heheh
02:12:23 [davb]
Wow that post is still pending 65 mins
02:13:24 [davb]
heh, I downloaded all that, one a day for a month or so. aduni.org limited the transfer rate to around 3k/s
02:13:42 [vinod]
ouch - that's like my bandwidth
02:14:11 [davb]
Yeah, I was getting 768k/sec then too.
02:14:35 [davb]
The Thinking in Java guy is writing Thinking in Python. cool.
02:14:36 [davb]
http://www.mindview.net/Books/Python/ThinkingInPython.html
02:14:36 [chump]
H: http://www.mindview.net/Books/Python/ThinkingInPython.html from davb
02:15:34 [davb]
H:| A glimmer in Bruce Eckel's eye: Thinking in Python
02:15:35 [chump]
titled item H
02:15:54 [davb]
cool python vs. perl quotes:
02:15:55 [davb]
Python is executable pseudocode. Perl is executable line noise.
02:16:05 [davb]
Perl is like vice grips. You can do anything with it, and it's the wrong tool for every job.
02:19:03 [davb]
Is there an app to make an ISO on my harddrive from the CDs?
02:19:20 [davb]
I am sure there is, dumb question. GOod question: what is it called?
02:19:34 [rbm]
mkisofs?
02:19:39 [rbm]
<-- never had a CD burner
02:19:48 [rbm]
Yes, that's it.
02:20:07 [davb]
thanks.
02:21:20 [davb]
cool mkisofs is installed
02:29:56 [davb]
20.29% done, estimate finish Thu Oct 18 22:57:44 2001
02:29:57 [davb]
21.98% done, estimate finish Thu Oct 18 22:56:18 2001
02:30:11 [davb]
check it out. I wish all long operations gave status reports like this
02:31:33 [rbm]
hoh
02:31:37 [rbm]
s/hoh/heh/
02:34:01 [davb]
WOW!
02:34:16 [davb]
The APM has a nifty reload link next to packages in which files have changed.
02:34:31 [davb]
It says Hey a file in this packages has changed, do you want to watch it.
02:35:44 [davb]
That should be in the News or at least the bboard.
02:43:14 [davb]
ack, looks like a need to recompile my kenel or, at least compile a module
02:45:14 [vinod]
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02:46:42 [davb]
Do I really need a new kernel if I want to add a loadable module?
02:46:57 [davb]
or can I just use the module if its compiled for my kernel?
02:50:54 [davb]
davb is now known as davb|asleep
02:51:02 [davb|asleep]
time for me to say goodnight
02:51:21 [AaronSw]
'nite
02:52:21 [vinod]
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02:55:54 [rbm]
davb|asleep: No. You can just make menuconfig, select the module, then make modules modules_install
03:01:48 [vinod]
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* AaronSw heads off
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* AaronSw returns
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ola has quit
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13:19:59 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw heads off
13:27:42 [davb]
http://www.aolserver.com/
13:27:42 [chump]
A: http://www.aolserver.com/ from davb
13:27:50 [davb]
A:|Aolserver.com redesigned again
13:27:50 [chump]
titled item A
13:27:58 [davb]
A: And AOLserver 3.4.2 released
13:27:58 [chump]
commented item A
13:28:11 [davb]
A: New online docs also
13:28:12 [chump]
commented item A
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* AaronSw returns
14:11:28 [donb]
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14:11:54 [donb]
Roberto, you there?
14:12:21 [donb]
Oh well, I'll check in later...
14:12:23 [donb]
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14:56:24 [Spork]
hi
14:56:59 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw heads off
15:14:51 [talli]
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15:14:55 [talli]
hey guys
15:15:48 [Spork]
Hi talli
15:31:26 [talli]
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15:33:55 [davb]
Spork: did you see that threadpool thing I chumped?
15:38:25 [Spork]
nope
15:38:29 [Spork]
I got that problem solved :)
15:38:35 [Spork]
A:
15:38:36 [chump]
http://www.aolserver.com/
15:38:36 [chump]
Aolserver.com redesigned again
15:38:37 [chump]
(davb) And AOLserver 3.4.2 released
15:38:38 [chump]
(davb) New online docs also
15:38:48 [Spork]
hmmm
15:38:53 [Spork]
where is the log again?
15:40:09 [davb]
http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog/
15:40:21 [davb]
I think it was in yesterday or maybe late the day before.
15:40:25 [Spork]
k
15:40:35 [Spork]
slow slow slow! :)
15:40:39 [davb]
Oh, well i am glad you solved the problem.
15:40:42 [davb]
My site is slow?
15:41:31 [davb]
It always loads fast for me. Weird. Its just an html page.
15:41:45 [Spork]
isn't it on your server
15:42:07 [davb]
yeah, but I am not on my server. Its at a remote location.
15:42:42 [davb]
Anyway this is the link http://www.dqd.com/~mayoff/aolserver/dqd_threadpool-1.0.tar.gz
15:43:56 [Spork]
yeah I got it
15:43:56 [Spork]
thanks
15:44:16 [davb]
no problem. I just thought it might be useful to you.
15:44:23 [Spork]
looks useful
15:44:23 [Spork]
my boss told me that I don't have to worry about that
15:44:29 [Spork]
He said he's working on a system where I just need to do two queries
15:44:32 [davb]
Well that is even better.
15:45:01 [Spork]
one to a database or LDAP to find the mac<->ip and then one to the ip<->ubr system
15:45:14 [Spork]
But it's going to be in postgres so I'll have to port it to oracle
15:45:18 [davb]
Spiffy.
15:45:21 [Spork]
yeah
15:45:34 [Spork]
so I'm working on doing the SNMP queries once I know the stuff
15:45:41 [Spork]
I came upon another problem
15:45:52 [davb]
Have you updated your acs-core lately? There is a handy RELOAD link in the APM that appears if a file in your package changes.
15:46:10 [Spork]
I need to do a reverse lookup and I don't think there's an easy way of doing it
15:46:22 [davb]
reverse DNS?
15:46:47 [Spork]
given an IP I need it's name
15:47:41 [davb]
Right. I think AOLserver can do that.
15:48:03 [Spork]
got it
15:48:07 [Spork]
ns_hostbyadd
15:48:09 [Spork]
r
15:53:16 [rbm]
isn't it ns_gethostbyaddr?
15:56:46 [ola]
ola has joined #openacs
15:59:22 [Spork]
nope
15:59:26 [Spork]
Hola Ola
15:59:42 [Spork]
http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/api/tapi-c65.htm#81032
15:59:43 [chump]
B: http://www.aolserver.com/docs/devel/tcl/api/tapi-c65.htm#81032 from Spork
15:59:57 [Spork]
B:| AOLServer API call to retrieve the DNS name of an IP
15:59:58 [chump]
titled item B
16:00:12 [Spork]
B: Useful for revere lookups of stuph
16:00:13 [chump]
commented item B
16:03:36 [ola]
hi Sporkster!
16:06:26 [davb]
Hi ola
16:07:23 [davb]
Wow. new logitech mice and keyboards will have a "search" button that goes to google.
16:07:56 [Spork]
cool
16:08:05 [Spork]
Hey, does tcl have
16:08:08 [Spork]
if condition
16:08:11 [Spork]
else if condition
16:08:12 [Spork]
else
16:08:14 [Spork]
?
16:08:29 [davb]
Yes.
16:08:45 [Spork]
what's wrong with mine then:
16:08:55 [Spork]
if {$cm_status == "12"} {
16:08:55 [Spork]
set cm_status Online
16:08:55 [Spork]
} else {if $cm_status == "1"
16:08:55 [Spork]
set cm_status Offline
16:08:55 [Spork]
}
16:09:06 [Spork]
bah
16:09:16 [Spork]
the { was before the if before
16:09:17 [davb]
its elseif { do stuff
16:09:21 [Spork]
ah
16:09:25 [Spork]
elseif
16:09:29 [davb]
yep.
16:09:54 [rbm]
But I don't see why can't you have an if inside an else block
16:09:56 [Spork]
gotcha
16:10:11 [davb]
oh yeah, but then his if is broken.
16:10:43 [Spork]
nah, I got it
16:10:46 [davb]
if $cm_status =="1" { set cm_status Offline } it would be.
16:10:46 [Spork]
:)
16:11:08 [ola]
hi davb! (and others)
16:11:12 [davb]
rbm: thanks for that kernel advice. I got it. Hopefully I will be able to burn some CDs tonight.
16:11:26 [Spork]
heh
16:11:30 [Spork]
scsi emulation ?
16:12:12 [Spork]
aha
16:12:16 [Spork]
why am I bothering with if
16:12:22 [Spork]
I can use some sort of switch thing
16:12:41 [rbm]
davb: cool! I'd love to get my hands on those lectures
16:13:26 [davb]
spork: yes
16:13:44 [davb]
switch flags value {
16:13:44 [davb]
pattern1 body1
16:13:44 [davb]
pattern2 body2
16:13:44 [davb]
...
16:13:44 [davb]
}
16:14:10 [Spork]
so like how would that be with 1,2,3,4,5...12
16:14:22 [davb]
http://www.arsdigita.com/books/tcl/control-structure.adp
16:14:22 [chump]
C: http://www.arsdigita.com/books/tcl/control-structure.adp from davb
16:14:25 [Spork]
where each value sets the cm_status to a specific value
16:14:48 [Spork]
thanks
16:15:01 [davb]
Maybe you can use an array for that.
16:15:12 [rbm]
http://www2.linuxjournal.com/lj-issues/issue88/4791.html
16:15:13 [chump]
D: http://www2.linuxjournal.com/lj-issues/issue88/4791.html from rbm
16:15:30 [rbm]
D:|PostgreSQL Performance Tuning, by Bruce Momjiam
16:15:30 [chump]
titled item D
16:15:42 [rbm]
http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/smith20010821.php3
16:15:42 [chump]
E: http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/smith20010821.php3 from rbm
16:15:48 [rbm]
E:| Optimizing PostgreSQL
16:15:48 [chump]
titled item E
16:16:12 [rbm]
Former: PostgreSQL Performance Tuning, by Bruce Momjiam
16:16:13 [davb]
excellent. I really need to get this stuff in a database so it can be categorized and searched.
16:16:40 [Spork]
switch $cm_status {
16:16:40 [Spork]
"1" {set cm_status offline}
16:16:40 [Spork]
"2" {set cm_status others}
16:16:40 [Spork]
"3" {set cm_status initRangingRcvd}
16:16:40 [Spork]
}
16:16:43 [Spork]
like so?
16:17:05 [Spork]
or would I leave the "" off since it's an integer
16:17:23 [davb]
you can leave off the "" if its a string as long as there's no whitepsace
16:17:36 [Spork]
they're just numbers
16:17:39 [davb]
Wouldn't an array be easier?
16:17:46 [Spork]
I dunno
16:17:47 [Spork]
hehe
16:18:16 [davb]
set cm_status cm_statusarray($cm_status_code)
16:18:30 [Spork]
what's that do?
16:18:53 [rbm]
I did some research on Journaled File Systems for Linux for the presentation I did in our LUG this wednesday
16:19:09 [davb]
you'd need to build the array... that takes the value out of the array based on the value of $cm_status_code(1,2,3, etc..)
16:19:10 [rbm]
I vowed to switch to a JFS ASAP after that
16:19:24 [Spork]
oh
16:19:37 [Spork]
heh, I'll try that next time I need something like this (I already wrote this thing out)
16:19:46 [davb]
well ok.
16:20:10 [davb]
rbm: which JFS do you like?
16:21:28 [davb]
I need to read all the articles at LinuxJournal.
16:22:17 [rbm]
Besides the integrity gains, and much lesser downtime (in the case of a reboot/crash), there are some major speed improvements gained with JFSs
16:22:53 [rbm]
davb: XFS is the most powerful. Hands down (although I haven't really looked at IBM's JFS). But ext3 seems to be a serious competitor.
16:23:03 [Spork]
ok
16:23:06 [rbm]
The cool thing about ext3 is that, in case of need, you can mount it as ext2
16:23:16 [davb]
rbm: that is cool.
16:23:31 [Spork]
how does this look:
16:23:31 [Spork]
proc status_2_string {status_code}
16:23:31 [Spork]
switch $cm_status {
16:23:31 [Spork]
"1" {set cm_status offline}
16:23:31 [Spork]
"2" {set cm_status others}
16:23:31 [Spork]
"3" {set cm_status initRangingRcvd}
16:23:31 [Spork]
"4" {set cm_status initDhcpReqRcvd
16:23:31 [Spork]
"5" {set cm_status Bricked}
16:23:31 [Spork]
"6" {set cm_status onlineKekAssigned}
16:23:31 [Spork]
"7" {set cm_status onlineTekAssigned}
16:23:31 [Spork]
"8" {set cm_status rejectBadMic}
16:23:32 [Spork]
"9" {set cm_status rejectedBadCos}
16:23:32 [Spork]
"10" {set cm_status kekRejected}
16:23:32 [Spork]
"11" {set cm_status tekRejected}
16:23:32 [Spork]
"12" {set cm_status online}
16:23:32 [Spork]
return $cm_status
16:23:32 [Spork]
}
16:23:34 [Spork]
eeep
16:24:04 [davb]
switch $status_code
16:24:25 [davb]
and you didn't close the switch {
16:25:53 [ola]
rbm: is it easy to migrate ALL partitions from ext2 to XFS. including /boot ?
16:26:39 [ola]
does it work with software RAID?
16:26:50 [rbm]
It's not hard, but it's not trivial either. (everything but your / partition that is)
16:27:04 [rbm]
ola: I think so.
16:27:20 [rbm]
One problem is that none of the disk imaging tools (Ghost, etc.) work with JFSs
16:28:07 [ola]
ok. what's special about / ?
16:30:43 [rbm]
I guess there are issues with boot loaders and all that
16:30:48 [Spork]
yup
16:30:58 [Spork]
its /root/
16:31:04 [Spork]
and \beer\
16:31:09 [ola]
heh
16:31:52 [Spork]
ok
16:31:56 [Spork]
my proc is messed up
16:36:08 [Spork]
this is how i call it:
16:36:12 [Spork]
set cm_status [status_2_string $cm_stat]
16:37:03 [Spork]
this is what's supposed to run
16:37:06 [Spork]
proc status_2_string {status_code} {
16:37:06 [Spork]
switch $status_code {
16:37:06 [Spork]
"1" {set cm_status offline}
16:37:06 [Spork]
"2" {set cm_status others}
16:37:06 [Spork]
"3" {set cm_status initRangingRcvd}
16:37:06 [Spork]
"4" {set cm_status initDhcpReqRcvd
16:37:08 [Spork]
"5" {set cm_status Bricked}
16:37:10 [Spork]
"6" {set cm_status onlineKekAssigned}
16:37:12 [Spork]
"7" {set cm_status onlineTekAssigned}
16:37:14 [Spork]
"8" {set cm_status rejectBadMic}
16:37:16 [Spork]
"9" {set cm_status rejectedBadCos}
16:37:18 [Spork]
"10" {set cm_status kekRejected}
16:37:20 [Spork]
"11" {set cm_status tekRejected}
16:37:22 [Spork]
"12" {set cm_status online}
16:37:24 [Spork]
return $cm_status
16:37:26 [Spork]
}
16:37:28 [Spork]
}
16:37:30 [Spork]
}
16:37:57 [davb]
your return is inside the switch and you have too many } at the end.
16:39:01 [Spork]
got it
16:39:02 [Spork]
thanks
16:39:41 [davb]
np.
16:40:00 [davb]
OK I am going insane again. I have a query in pl/pgsql that says parse error at or near SELECT
16:40:11 [davb]
I copy and pasted it into psql and it works fine.
16:40:29 [Spork]
what's the query?
16:41:15 [davb]
for v_stale_file_row in
16:41:15 [davb]
select static_page_id from static_pages
16:41:15 [davb]
where folder_id in (
16:41:15 [davb]
select folder_id from sp_folders
16:41:15 [davb]
where tree_sortkey like (
16:41:15 [davb]
select tree_sortkey || ''%''
16:41:17 [davb]
from sp_folders
16:41:19 [davb]
where folder_id = v_root_folder_id )
16:41:21 [davb]
)
16:41:23 [davb]
and
16:41:25 [davb]
static_page_id not in (
16:41:27 [davb]
select static_page_id from
16:41:29 [davb]
sp_extant_files
16:41:31 [davb]
where session_id = p_session_id )
16:41:33 [davb]
loop
16:41:35 [davb]
PERFORM static_page__delete(v_stale_file_row.static_page_\
16:41:37 [davb]
id);
16:41:39 [davb]
end loop;
16:41:41 [davb]
ack...
16:41:43 [Spork]
yikes
16:41:44 [Spork]
lol
16:42:13 [Spork]
i thought it was something simple :D
16:42:25 [davb]
its not that bad...
16:42:28 [Spork]
i know nothing...noooooottthhhiiiiiing
16:42:29 [davb]
for v_stale_file_row in
16:42:29 [davb]
select static_page_id from static_pages
16:42:29 [davb]
where folder_id in (
16:42:29 [davb]
select folder_id from sp_folders
16:42:29 [davb]
where tree_sortkey like (
16:42:29 [davb]
select tree_sortkey || ''%''
16:42:31 [davb]
from sp_folders
16:42:33 [davb]
where folder_id = v_root_folder_id )
16:42:35 [davb]
)
16:42:37 [davb]
and
16:42:39 [davb]
static_page_id not in (
16:42:41 [davb]
select static_page_id from
16:42:43 [davb]
sp_extant_files
16:42:45 [davb]
where session_id = p_session_id )
16:42:47 [davb]
loop
16:42:49 [davb]
PERFORM static_page__delete(v_stale_file_row.static_page_id);
16:42:51 [davb]
end loop;
16:43:31 [davb]
where's vinod when you need him :)?
16:43:56 [Spork]
I ate him
16:44:04 [Spork]
with curry
16:44:07 [Spork]
:)
16:44:21 [Spork]
I don't get it...a doctor who programs
16:44:23 [Spork]
lol
16:55:13 [ola]
davb: is v_stale_file_row of type RECORD?
16:56:26 [davb]
ola: yep. I fixed that part :)
16:57:36 [davb]
Right before this code is a RAISE NOTICE I stuck in. That makes it into the log. I put another one after and it doesn't so I suspect its in this select that I am having trouble.
16:58:54 [ola]
hmm.. is the quoting correct? I guess it is...
17:00:00 [davb]
yes. Actually I had another Idea. I think its in static_page__delete
17:00:26 [ola]
I vas just going to suggest that.:-)
17:00:38 [ola]
s/vas/was
17:00:43 [davb]
thanks
17:01:04 [davb]
see, like I said, as soon as you ask in IRC or the Bboard you think of another answer...
17:01:24 [ola]
so right.
17:01:52 [davb]
This IRC channel is a place to ask your dumb questions without emailing 100 people.
17:02:00 [ola]
hehe
17:03:10 [davb]
aha. I put a RAISE NOTICE inside the loop and it is dying during the perform.
17:03:44 [davb]
I just wish postgresql would spit out which function it is in when the error actually occurs.
17:04:09 [ola]
what is static_page__delete like?
17:04:38 [ola]
yeah. it could be a bit more verbose.
17:10:55 [talli]
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17:18:04 [davb]
hi talli
17:20:47 [davb]
aha. A ; was at the end of a select in the FOR loop
17:22:03 [talli]
hey
17:42:12 [Spork]
Spork has quit
17:50:14 [Spork]
Spork has joined #openacs
17:50:29 [Spork]
* Spork shakes his fist angrily at the disconnect
17:50:53 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw returns
17:51:16 [davb]
Anyone know why my s is disappering with this:
17:51:24 [davb]
% set file /openacs-4/www/static_page.html
17:51:26 [davb]
% set static_path /openacs-4/www/
17:51:26 [davb]
% set trimmed_file [string trimleft $file $static_path]
17:51:26 [davb]
tatic_page.html
17:51:26 [davb]
%
17:52:44 [ola]
heh
17:52:54 [ola]
must be a bug in Tcl.
17:53:13 [davb]
great. Does it in AOLserver and tclsh
17:54:11 [davb]
I need a regexp I think. trim is not doing what I think it will.
17:55:56 [davb]
what is the best way to chop off part of a string?
17:59:26 [ola]
make a loop and scan each character starting from the end...:-/
17:59:52 [davb]
spiffy.
18:00:33 [davb]
Basically I have /web/opeacs-4/www/staticfile.html and I want to return staticfile.html
18:00:58 [davb]
I need the path relative to /web/openacs-4/www or whatever depending on the OpenACS install dir
18:02:03 [rbm]
look at the man pages for string search and string last
18:02:14 [davb]
thanks
18:02:41 [rbm]
you should avoid using regex if you don't need regex pawer
18:02:44 [rbm]
s/pawer/power/
18:04:12 [davb]
ok. that is good to know.
18:11:22 [davb]
it looks like the /s are messing up string trimleft
18:12:43 [ola]
davb: split on "/" followed by: set trimmed_file [lindex [llength $list] $list]
18:12:57 [davb]
Actually now its working fine...
18:13:07 [ola]
cool
18:13:08 [davb]
even with /
18:13:12 [Spork]
Spork has quit
18:21:46 [davb]
argh, sometimes it works and sometimes it does't depending on what letters are in it.
18:46:06 [davb]
yeah! it works. I had to do string range $file [string length [cr_fs_path STATIC_PAGES]] end]
18:47:13 [markd2]
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18:47:21 [davb]
hi markd2
18:48:11 [markd2]
greetings
18:48:17 [markd2]
Hey Talli
18:48:29 [markd2]
just got your brother's book - pretty cool
18:48:49 [davb]
What is that book again?
18:49:22 [markd2]
The Inflatable Crown
18:49:29 [davb]
cool
18:54:52 [davb]
I added it to all the computer science books in my wish list
18:57:30 [davb]
time to email DanW with my content-folder patches
18:59:10 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw heads off
18:59:56 [AaronSw]
* AaronSw returns
19:06:04 [talli]
whoa. killer markd!
19:06:13 [talli]
i speak as my bros rep in saying thank you.
19:06:34 [talli]
i think you may be among the fortunate few though that know what it is. so far they've had a hard time selling it
19:07:06 [markd2]
bummer
19:07:11 [markd2]
I found it at a Brders in Omaha
19:07:16 [markd2]
is he selling it through TMyers?
19:07:18 [talli]
oh, cool
19:07:26 [markd2]
it made quite a stir on the BalloonHQ mailing list
19:07:28 [talli]
i don't know if it is. i'll suggest that to them
19:07:31 [talli]
really? cool
19:07:46 [talli]
do you like the pictures in the book?
19:07:59 [markd2]
they're awesme
19:08:04 [markd2]
the prettiest balloon book I have
19:08:07 [markd2]
(and I have dozens)
19:08:09 [talli]
:)
19:08:13 [talli]
that's good to know
19:08:17 [talli]
i'll pass that on
19:08:37 [talli]
you can even buy prints of the photos now ;)
19:08:41 [markd2]
kind of nice to have a book that *doesn't* have a poole and teddy bear
19:08:48 [talli]
they have an ecommerce section of their website
19:08:56 [markd2]
cool
19:09:00 [talli]
yeah, i think they stay away from the poodle and teddy bear stuff
19:09:21 [markd2]
"here's a poodle being strangled by a teddy bear"
19:09:28 [talli]
addi has become an arrogant "artist" now. he scoffs at children that ask for a giraffe
19:09:38 [talli]
actually, so do i
19:09:40 [markd2]
poor kids
19:09:41 [markd2]
heh
19:09:49 [talli]
"it's a long necked dog, kid. get away from me"
19:09:50 [markd2]
"here, have an inflatable phallus"
19:10:03 [markd2]
how not to be booked for birthday parties :-)
19:10:08 [talli]
haha
19:10:24 [talli]
i used to twist a lot at bars
19:10:29 [talli]
it was a good way to meet chicks
19:10:51 [talli]
the best way to deal with the obnoxious people was always to make them a dick hat
19:11:08 [talli]
their friends laughed at them so hard they just shut up
19:11:17 [markd2]
heh
19:18:24 [markd2]
Anyone know if JDBC works with Postgres?
19:18:35 [davb]
I think someone got it to work...
19:19:08 [markd2]
cool
19:19:49 [davb]
http://techdocs.postgresql.org/redir.php?link=http://jdbc.postgresql.org
19:19:49 [chump]
F: http://techdocs.postgresql.org/redir.php?link=http://jdbc.postgresql.org from davb
19:20:06 [davb]
F:|PostgreSQL JDBC Documentation
19:20:06 [chump]
titled item F
19:20:55 [markd2]
sweet
19:21:04 [markd2]
I'm at my folks's place, with an internet connection 10x faster than what I have at home
19:21:15 [markd2]
figured I'd go ahead and download everything
19:21:17 [davb]
F: actually not the documentation....but information and links
19:21:18 [chump]
commented item F
19:21:25 [davb]
heh
19:21:54 [davb]
just go to google.com and do wget -r
19:22:55 [markd2]
PG works on OS/X?
19:23:03 [markd2]
* markd2 is to lazy to actually look it up
19:23:07 [davb]
Also, I believe yes.
19:24:57 [davb]
AaronSw, isn't their a google IRC bot?
19:26:07 [AaronSw]
Yep
19:26:17 [AaronSw]
google is his name
19:27:14 [AaronSw]
I think yath is his owner
19:27:22 [AaronSw]
msg yath if you want him in here
19:27:44 [davb]
http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/one-folder?file_id=209
19:27:44 [davb]
f
19:27:44 [davb]
http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/one-folder?file_id=209
19:27:44 [davb]
hmmm
19:27:44 [davb]
anyway thats the link to Mac OS X install for OpenACS 4
19:27:45 [davb]
chump view
19:27:45 [davb]
markd2: just checkout techdocs.postgresql.org
19:27:45 [davb]
it has JDBC and MacOS X links
19:27:45 [chump]
G: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/one-folder?file_id=209 from davb
19:27:45 [chump]
H: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/one-folder?file_id=209 from davb
19:27:46 [davb]
thanks
19:27:46 [davb]
i hope markd2 didn't really type wget http://www.google.com -r
19:28:12 [markd2]
heh
19:28:18 [markd2]
* markd2 must be a moron
19:28:24 [davb]
G:|OpenACS on MacOS X
19:28:25 [chump]
titled item G
19:28:25 [markd2]
I'm having trouble finding out where to download postgres
19:28:50 [davb]
actually it is difficult to find. Someone has prebuilt MacOS X
19:28:51 [markd2]
every time I go to a mirror, it takes me to the top level
19:29:50 [davb]
try ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/dev/postgresql-7.x.x.tar.gz
19:29:56 [AaronSw]
markd2 do you have fink?
19:30:13 [davb]
http://techdocs.postgresql.org/installguides.php#macosx
19:30:13 [chump]
I: http://techdocs.postgresql.org/installguides.php#macosx from davb
19:30:26 [davb]
I:|PostgreSQL on MacOS X, another guide
19:30:27 [chump]
titled item I
19:32:26 [markd2]
davb++
19:32:34 [markd2]
thanks
19:33:17 [AaronSw]
Markd2, you should really get fink - fink.sf.net
19:33:24 [AaronSw]
It's a dpkg for Mac OS X.
19:33:36 [AaronSw]
just type fink install postgresql and it downloads, compiles and installs for you
19:34:30 [ola]
ola has quit
19:34:53 [markd2]
cool
19:36:49 [davb]
thats cool.
19:37:38 [markd2]
it should be interesting to start a fink download, and a manual install on my slow home link
19:37:42 [markd2]
and see which one finishes first
19:38:04 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax has joined #openacs
19:38:08 [Psychephylax]
bah!!!
19:38:21 [Psychephylax]
my link to base was severed
19:38:24 [markd2]
humbug
19:38:33 [markd2]
all your base are belong to us, now
19:38:38 [Psychephylax]
:)
19:38:55 [Psychephylax]
the scriptics base is down too
19:39:39 [Psychephylax]
I can't find the formatting info and this makes no sense
19:39:49 [Psychephylax]
if I have set blah print 1
19:40:02 [Psychephylax]
then wouldn't set blah [expr $blah/10] be .1?
19:41:06 [markd2]
expr print 1/10 ?
19:41:23 [markd2]
if it's expr 1/10, it's probably doing integer math
19:41:27 [markd2]
try 1 / 10.0
19:41:59 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax gives Mark a cookie
19:42:43 [davb]
Psychephylax: http://www.aolserver.com/docs/
19:43:09 [Psychephylax]
i went to scriptics.com and their site was down
19:43:22 [Psychephylax]
and I looked on the arsidigita.com/books/tcl site :P
19:43:29 [davb]
yeah, they were bougt out.
19:43:37 [davb]
and changed thier name.
19:43:47 [Psychephylax]
what?
19:44:26 [markd2]
They were Ajuba for awhile
19:44:31 [markd2]
no idea what they are now
19:45:29 [Psychephylax]
sun had them too
19:46:34 [Psychephylax]
Activestate?
19:47:45 [davb]
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Products/ASPNTOC-ACTIVETCL_
19:47:46 [chump]
J: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Products/ASPNTOC-ACTIVETCL_ from davb
19:47:49 [markd2]
markd2 has quit
19:48:00 [davb]
J:|Tcl docs at aspn.activestate.com
19:48:00 [chump]
titled item J
19:49:28 [Psychephylax]
odd
19:49:52 [Psychephylax]
*sigh*
19:49:58 [davb]
ActiveState is taking over development of Tcl last time I checked.
19:50:40 [Psychephylax]
And let me guess
19:50:48 [Psychephylax]
it's gonna have some sort of a pay license deal?
19:50:55 [Psychephylax]
Unless you get it in their binary?
19:51:29 [davb]
also check out
19:51:36 [davb]
http://tcl.activestate.com/
19:51:36 [chump]
K: http://tcl.activestate.com/ from davb
19:51:46 [davb]
K:|Tcl Community Site is here now
19:51:46 [chump]
titled item K
19:52:22 [Psychephylax]
aha
19:52:23 [Psychephylax]
thank you
19:52:53 [Psychephylax]
what's set table(blah) 0 do?
19:53:04 [Psychephylax]
i can't find table anywhere
19:53:11 [davb]
creates an array called table
19:53:26 [davb]
with one key (blah) refering to the value 0
19:53:52 [Psychephylax]
ah
19:53:53 [davb]
unless there already is an existing array, then it just sets the key/value pair
19:54:16 [davb]
you can get the tcl docs for free at the aspn site, but might as well use the tcl.activestate community site
19:54:46 [davb]
looks like the bboard isn't working though...
19:54:56 [Psychephylax]
so what's set table(header) {CookieMonster Mark}
19:55:09 [davb]
Aha that sticks a list in the array.
19:55:09 [Psychephylax]
makes a new array header
19:55:17 [Psychephylax]
hmmm
19:55:38 [davb]
no array is table, header is the key. read the ARRAY man page and especially the array docs in Tcl for Web nerds
19:55:45 [Psychephylax]
k
19:57:15 [Psychephylax]
so it goes both ways?
19:57:56 [Psychephylax]
like If I have an array mapping 1 - online, 2-offline, 3-bricked
19:59:05 [Psychephylax]
can I ask what 1 maps to and what online maps to?
20:01:37 [davb]
not sure...
20:07:29 [davb]
you can also use an NSV if this will be the same across all threads.
20:10:16 [Psychephylax]
not using threads now
20:10:39 [Psychephylax]
trying to figure out what the hell this snmp implementation does and how to convert it to the other one
20:12:29 [davb]
aha.
20:12:40 [davb]
I think you can only reference an array by the (key)
20:12:54 [davb]
You can step through it and check the value of each though.
20:13:33 [Psychephylax]
ah
20:15:13 [ElectricElf]
Okay, message from MysticOne, who runs carter.openprojects.net: Due to the vulnerabilities recently made public in Linux kernels(local root exploit), he has patched his kernel and will reboot in ten minutes. Buckle up :)
20:17:09 [Psychephylax]
affirmabeer!
20:20:16 [Psychephylax]
odd
20:20:19 [Psychephylax]
very very odd
20:25:48 [donb]
donb has joined #openacs
20:26:18 [donb]
So who is actually paying attention here? What's up?
20:27:00 [donb]
Ding! Ding! Ding! Anyone home?
20:27:15 [irc.openprojects.net]
Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer)
20:27:38 [loggy]
loggy has joined #openacs
20:27:38 [forward.openprojects.net]
Users on #openacs: loggy chump
20:27:40 [GEM]
GEM has joined #openacs
20:27:40 [davb]
davb has joined #openacs
20:27:40 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax has joined #openacs
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20:27:42 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
20:27:58 [AaronSw]
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20:28:29 [davb]
hello
20:28:49 [davb]
hello don that it. I am not sure where everyone else is.
20:28:59 [donb]
Is this Dave Bauer?
20:29:02 [davb]
yes
20:29:17 [donb]
Hey - I found a small bug in static pages that needs attention. I was thinking of
20:29:29 [donb]
going after it myself but you've already fixed one instance ...
20:29:47 [davb]
I just fixed a bunch of stuff actually. What was the problem?
20:29:53 [donb]
Here's the scoop ... do you remember adding some more overloaded calls to
20:30:10 [donb]
avoid a "triggered data change violation" message when creating items?
20:30:33 [davb]
for static_folders I did
20:30:36 [donb]
overloaded calls to create new CR objects, I mean...
20:30:53 [davb]
for content_item__new and content_folder__new
20:31:13 [donb]
OK - when I took my snapshot I think only the content_item__new change was in, because
20:31:24 [donb]
I get the error when it tries to make a folder.
20:31:27 [davb]
Yes.
20:31:32 [davb]
I totally forgot to test that.
20:31:49 [donb]
When did you commit last? I took this snapshot a couple of days ago...
20:32:14 [davb]
I haven;t committed these changes yet. I need to have some changes made to the CR.
20:32:32 [donb]
*ahh* I see, that explains it...
20:32:36 [davb]
I will email them to DanW tonight to tomorrow.
20:32:54 [Psychephylax]
hey it's Don
20:32:56 [donb]
Actually you can e-mail them to me if you want, I think Dan's really busy at the moment.
20:33:05 [davb]
Ok, I'll do that.
20:33:07 [donb]
Unless Dan's told you otherwise, anyway, I know
20:33:21 [donb]
he was too busy to work on another problem last week so I fixed it.
20:33:30 [davb]
Ok.
20:33:43 [donb]
Great - what did you do, add more overloaded "new" functions?
20:33:44 [davb]
I just have to double check the Oracle code.
20:34:09 [davb]
I added content_folder__new and fixed the content_item__new I had done last time.
20:34:20 [donb]
OK - I didn't put the static pages package in the alpha snapshot I put up on openacs.org
20:34:40 [donb]
since this bombed on me. It will be in the next (alpha2? beta?) snapshot I hope to put together in
20:34:43 [donb]
a couple of weeks.
20:34:49 [davb]
Good, its really broken. After I test it a little this weekend it will be in good shape.
20:35:12 [donb]
Sounds good ... I didn't e-mail you because my e-mail was hosed for almost two days.
20:35:19 [davb]
right.
20:35:31 [donb]
Who is Psychephylax?
20:35:57 [davb]
He's working on an OpenACS based application.
20:36:04 [donb]
Cool!
20:36:23 [donb]
Something fun?
20:36:26 [davb]
I have to go now.
20:36:45 [davb]
I think not. Its a support package for a cable internet access company
20:37:09 [davb]
davb has quit
20:37:29 [donb]
I was hoping Roberto was around - anyone see him recently?
20:40:03 [donb]
OK - I'm outta here, I'll try to nail Roberto later ...
20:40:06 [donb]
donb has quit
21:27:11 [rbm]
mooo
21:27:22 [rbm]
looks like I missed Don
21:27:58 [rbm]
* rbm checks his mail
21:32:46 [Psychephylax]
yes you did
21:34:23 [rbm]
hmm.. but no mail from him. maybe on the openacs folder
21:43:23 [rbm]
hmm. nope.
21:51:00 [rbm]
anyone has a copy of jplot??
21:56:15 [Psychephylax]
hmm
21:56:19 [Psychephylax]
I have jEdit :>
21:56:43 [rbm]
jedit is an editor. jplot is a grphics plotting program.
21:57:04 [rbm]
it was gpl'd by arsdigita, but it disappeared from their website
21:59:21 [Psychephylax]
heh
22:02:43 [talli]
talli has joined #openacs
22:02:48 [talli]
whoa
22:02:54 [talli]
did i miss donb in here?
22:02:56 [talli]
damn
22:03:04 [rbm]
yeah
22:03:12 [rbm]
I did too. It's very rare of him to show up.
22:03:53 [rbm]
He didn't send me e-mail and he doesn't have IM of some sorts. And Ben is not online.
22:05:36 [talli]
how can don not have IM?
22:05:41 [talli]
what's his issue?
22:06:37 [rbm]
I don't know.
22:06:48 [davb]
davb has joined #OpenACS
22:09:17 [donb]
donb has joined #openacs
22:09:23 [rbm]
hola don!
22:09:25 [donb]
Hey, roberto, you there?
22:09:30 [donb]
Guess so, hola Roberto!
22:09:31 [rbm]
* rbm is here
22:09:39 [Psychephylax]
lol
22:09:44 [rbm]
I sent you e-mail a couple minutes ago
22:09:56 [donb]
I just got back, just saw it ...
22:10:11 [donb]
I hacked up the acs-core-docs for my alpha release...
22:10:24 [donb]
but just the HTML (dropped in our logo) because I don
22:10:46 [donb]
sorry don' t know squat about doc books and the aD XML doc definition
22:10:57 [donb]
seems to no longer be where it was on their site so I have no sample to work
22:10:58 [donb]
from.
22:11:16 [rbm]
donb: I was going to ask you if we have the source documents in .xml
22:11:34 [donb]
Yeah, we do, they're in the CVS tree or at least they're in my directory.
22:11:41 [donb]
I think they're in the tree, hold on a sec...
22:11:45 [rbm]
Hmmm. I must have missed them.
22:12:27 [donb]
yep they're there in acs-core-docs/www/xml
22:12:34 [rbm]
huh
22:12:50 [donb]
I hadn't noticed them earlier either, to be honest. Now I noticed but
22:13:07 [donb]
didn't have any quick way to use them so just hacked a bit in the html.
22:13:16 [donb]
Just a little bit, mostly wrote a new release note and as I mentioned
22:13:22 [donb]
dropped in our logo.
22:13:37 [rbm]
Cool
22:13:40 [donb]
So what do I/we need go generate the HTML from the XML?
22:14:22 [rbm]
*crossing fingers* I will wook on them this weekend (of course, I said this before, but this time it's looking very realistic)
22:14:35 [rbm]
donb: Just jade and their dtd
22:14:58 [rbm]
let me take a look at what's in the dir and see if I can spot it.
22:15:04 [rbm]
* rbm looks around for his
22:15:07 [rbm]
* rbm looks around for his boss
22:15:19 [rbm]
Not around. Good :)
22:15:36 [Psychephylax]
bah
22:15:47 [Psychephylax]
if it's indexed I should be able to take the 3rd value of the damn array!
22:15:56 [rbm]
Psychephylax: ??
22:16:20 [talli]
whoa
22:16:23 [talli]
donb!
22:16:26 [donb]
I didn't find the dtd and it's not at the URL referenced in the docs...
22:16:38 [donb]
Hey, talli ...
22:16:47 [Psychephylax]
I have an array
22:16:51 [Psychephylax]
it's got 3 elements
22:16:55 [Psychephylax]
I want the 3rd element
22:17:29 [talli]
hey don and roberto, since you guys are here.
22:17:44 [talli]
can we have a quick pow wow about the release of the new openacs.org?
22:17:45 [rbm]
* rbm hides
22:17:51 [davb]
YOu need to use the key of the 3rd element.
22:17:59 [Psychephylax]
what do you mean?
22:18:13 [davb]
Tcl Arrays are not like other arrays.
22:18:16 [talli]
* talli pulls out his bananas and entices the brazilian back out of the jungles of utah
22:18:25 [donb]
new openacs.org - sure...
22:18:43 [davb]
the are not indexed by number.
22:18:53 [donb]
They're associative ...
22:18:55 [donb]
arrays...
22:19:18 [donb]
He is talking Tcl arrays not PG's built-in arrays?
22:19:27 [Psychephylax]
yeah TCL arrays
22:19:28 [talli]
there are one or two glaring problems with the site that we should fix ASAP, but i suggest that i announce the site as alpha on the bboards on Mndya
22:19:30 [talli]
Monday
22:19:31 [Psychephylax]
those pesky little pests
22:19:45 [donb]
What are the one or two glaring problems?
22:20:03 [talli]
the big one is the issue with html tags in the bulletin board posts
22:20:13 [talli]
how it can destroy the home page
22:20:31 [talli]
the fix, i think, is just to have the titles of recent bboard posts, not the first few lines
22:20:35 [donb]
By the way the "little Alex" logo you have there looks great dropped into the OpenACS docs and yes, the tags-in-summaries problem is a "must fix".
22:20:49 [talli]
good to hear
22:20:51 [talli]
about the logo
22:21:12 [donb]
Titles only are fine especially for right now. We should generate a better fix for summarizing HTML strings in general since summarizing is a common thing to do.
22:21:13 [talli]
so we'll fix it simply by doing it the photo.net way of just having the title of the thread
22:21:19 [donb]
Not just in the bboard but elsewhere.
22:21:21 [talli]
fair enough
22:21:45 [donb]
In other words a Tcl utility in acs-tcl...
22:22:04 [talli]
i think the title is good anyway since a) it saves real estate on the home page and b) what if the post starts out with a nasty flame
22:22:16 [rbm]
donb: I think I can generate the HTML from these without their dtd (if we don't find it). We'll probably run into some spots where jade will choke, but I can probably generate most of the docs, and fix the ones that get choked upon.
22:22:19 [donb]
You mean like my web/db post about the layoffs?
22:22:20 [talli]
not that there has EVER been a flame on the bboard before...
22:22:29 [talli]
that was dope. major props for that
22:22:30 [talli]
one
22:22:49 [donb]
Richard Li wrote me a *very* nasty e-mail in response ...
22:22:59 [donb]
I hurt his feelings again.
22:23:03 [rbm]
donb: to what?
22:23:10 [talli]
that guy has a tiny penis
22:23:14 [talli]
poor richard li
22:23:24 [donb]
to my web/db post about last weeks "stealth layoffs", Roberto
22:23:29 [talli]
i guess he's the aD avenger, defending the faith
22:23:31 [rbm]
Oh, web/db. I haven't read it in a while.
22:23:49 [talli]
i finally unsubscribed from there. nothing but lameness coming out
22:24:07 [donb]
I don't read it either, Roberto, but was tired of knowing about the layoffs and not seeing any public announcement to the community whatsoever.
22:24:26 [talli]
i've had a great time getting the latest dirt from the latest ex-aD'ers
22:24:27 [donb]
rbm - we can probably reverse-engineer the dtd if necessary.
22:24:35 [talli]
funny stuff
22:24:45 [donb]
secret stuff?
22:24:58 [Psychephylax]
woohoo
22:24:59 [talli]
no, nothing more than what you probably already know
22:25:11 [rbm]
donb: yes. That's what I was trying to say.
22:25:11 [donb]
I've heard a little "ACS/Java sucks, really really sucks" ...
22:25:18 [talli]
yeah
22:25:21 [donb]
rbm - OK, good.
22:25:31 [talli]
one guy crapped on the "presentation layer"
22:25:45 [donb]
see, this I haven't heard!
22:26:00 [talli]
more or less that he just didn't even want to think about having to deal with it
22:26:05 [rbm]
donb: We have ex-ad'ers to be in the channel. They let us into a lot of good info :)
22:26:11 [talli]
hint hint - he was their best programmer
22:26:17 [talli]
why do they fire their best people?
22:26:21 [talli]
do they hate themselves?
22:26:35 [talli]
anyway, do you know the name of their new "product?"
22:26:40 [donb]
I think that is probably what pissed Richard Li off, my comment about getting rid of the cream or whatever.
22:26:43 [rbm]
Do they have one?
22:26:52 [donb]
No, I don't know the name ...
22:26:54 [talli]
they will
22:26:58 [donb]
dotBURN?
22:27:02 [talli]
haha
22:27:04 [talli]
better
22:27:08 [talli]
Armenta
22:27:23 [talli]
let me rephrase that "they will"
22:27:50 [talli]
the thing they will try to build and offer as a sacrifice to the VCs
22:27:52 [donb]
"Armenta"? What the heck does that mean other than more business for a trademark lawyer?
22:28:15 [talli]
donb, do i have to teach you the basics of product differentiation again?
22:28:28 [donb]
that's good...
22:28:56 [talli]
anyway, i don't believe there was ever any resolution to the tragedy of the aD prize kids
22:29:10 [donb]
Are you kidding me???? That *really* sucks.
22:29:34 [talli]
i think aD has taken the donated server and is running their famed java scalabity tests on it
22:29:37 [donb]
You're talking about the abrupt death of their websites?
22:29:40 [davb]
arsDigita: pissing off a new generation of hackers
22:29:53 [talli]
the abrupt death?
22:30:06 [donb]
Right yanking the donated server without warning...
22:30:11 [talli]
i'm talking about how aD took the DONATED sun e250 and yanked it away
22:30:14 [talli]
yeah, exactly
22:30:21 [talli]
aaronsw you here?
22:30:31 [donb]
I didn't realize it was a Sun donation, though, that *really* sucks.
22:30:33 [AaronSw]
Yep
22:30:39 [talli]
i heard some funny shit baout richard buck's response
22:30:41 [donb]
Jeez, that's really really low.
22:30:48 [talli]
what happened with your server aaron?
22:31:02 [AaronSw]
We're still fighting with the lawyers.
22:31:06 [talli]
haha!
22:31:06 [AaronSw]
Heather is optimistic.
22:31:15 [talli]
they've got you talking to lawyers?
22:31:17 [AaronSw]
I think we might pick it up at the bankruptcy auction. ;)
22:31:21 [talli]
haha
22:31:22 [AaronSw]
Yeah, they have for a while
22:31:27 [AaronSw]
They fedexed Heather a nasty letter!
22:31:37 [talli]
see if you can't get me an aeron chair while your at it
22:31:45 [talli]
and maybe a 21 inch flat screen monitor
22:31:50 [donb]
aeron chairs are going real cheap these days.
22:31:51 [talli]
and one of their fish, too
22:32:01 [rbm]
AFAIK there was more than an e250. There were Penguin Computing servers too
22:32:15 [donb]
Too bad youdon't like dogs, Talli, maybe you could pick up one of those cheap, too...
22:32:17 [AaronSw]
Yep, rbm.
22:32:22 [talli]
haha
22:32:31 [talli]
i love dogs. except when their connected to aD foudners
22:32:49 [donb]
I actually like Alex, I grew up with a samoyed/collie mutt...
22:33:05 [talli]
is there anything else you like about philip?
22:33:13 [donb]
So what was richard buck's response, talli?
22:33:22 [talli]
whoops - gotta remember to comment out those statements
22:33:24 [talli]
something like...
22:33:28 [rbm]
Hey, I saw a samoyed yesterday. Couldn't help it but think of Alex and the past days of aD
22:33:28 [donb]
I don't dislike Philip. He doesn't wear success well, but other than that he's OK.
22:33:50 [talli]
"my sole responsibility is to make sure that we finish this product"
22:33:54 [talli]
(sic)
22:33:55 [donb]
Of course, success was fleeting ...
22:34:11 [donb]
Hmm ... well, at least richard has himself a clearly defined task.
22:34:30 [donb]
That's OK gossip is best when slightly distorted...
22:34:39 [talli]
oh, in that case
22:35:04 [talli]
buck is also planning on visiting afghanistan to recruit some java programmers from the ranks of al-Qaeda
22:35:17 [donb]
That's *really* funny!
22:35:25 [talli]
but i heard that on the f**kedcompany site
22:35:44 [donb]
I've been meaning to check it out to see if there was any hot gossip...
22:35:54 [donb]
hey, will luke have time to do the oracle etp?
22:36:02 [talli]
i don't really know
22:36:13 [donb]
OK I may scrounge for someone else...
22:36:32 [talli]
you can ping him, but i think that unless we get a client to pay us for it we're probably going to spend the time improving it rather than porting it
22:36:41 [donb]
There's one fairly big change I want to ask for in the CR stuff in general (not just etp, it's basic to the datamodel AFAIK) and that's to better support user contributions
22:36:42 [talli]
we need to improve the UI and add features
22:36:49 [donb]
with the old "open/wait/closed" contribution model...
22:37:14 [talli]
don't quite understand what you mean...
22:37:46 [donb]
Think about all those news announcements you've made on the existing site...
22:37:51 [talli]
ah, right
22:37:59 [talli]
that doesn't exist in the news module?
22:38:13 [donb]
Not the etp-based one AFAIK ...
22:38:20 [talli]
no, it's not there yet
22:38:28 [talli]
but what about the recently ported news module?
22:38:32 [donb]
But it's more general - think of using etp to set up a new section of the site similar
22:38:45 [donb]
to the ars digita journal. People could submit papers ...
22:39:05 [donb]
we could set up such a section in "wait" mode and they could just submit directly to the site...
22:39:23 [donb]
The recently ported news module does have this model, yes.
22:39:59 [talli]
we do have a journal ETP that we built a while ago...
22:40:08 [donb]
Oh yeah?
22:40:17 [talli]
couldn't this more or less be implemented using workflow?
22:40:34 [donb]
Yes, it could, and there should be integration with the underlying CR model...
22:40:37 [talli]
don, did you see that email i sent that described some of the peer review stuff we're buildig?
22:41:00 [donb]
actually workflow is a good idea because it would be very easy to change site-to-site.
22:41:16 [donb]
Now, I didn't see it, talli. When did you e-mail me?
22:41:36 [talli]
i emailed you something pretty long about the IDRC project
22:41:41 [talli]
a couple of weeks ago, i believe
22:42:02 [talli]
it was an invitation to talk about partnering on the project
22:42:14 [donb]
Oh, yes, OK, I haven't dug through the whole thing. Sorry ... I know Ben and Janine have been swamped, too. I've been trying to stay 100% focused on OpenACS releases and bug fixes and all that...
22:42:18 [talli]
attached was a forwarded email that i had sent to IDRC talking abot osme of the work we're doing
22:42:23 [talli]
totally understood
22:42:42 [donb]
I started to respond last night but posted to web/db instead
22:42:46 [donb]
(actually, I'm kidding)
22:42:54 [talli]
to fill you in, we're working with an org centered in Canada called the Resilliance Alliance
22:43:12 [talli]
actually, they requested a bid from furfly a while ago abotu a big community sit
22:43:19 [donb]
Yes, I saw that name, and did skim, but I didn't read the details ...
22:43:29 [donb]
Did Janine respond?
22:43:35 [talli]
they decided not to build the community site, but we partnered with them to build something else
22:43:41 [donb]
Ah ... I see.
22:43:43 [talli]
(janine responded to say she's swamped)
22:44:01 [donb]
OK, I vaguely remember something along these lines.
22:44:04 [talli]
they've spent the past 8 years developing a double blind peer review system that automates much of the process
22:44:16 [donb]
Oh, interesting ...
22:44:20 [donb]
very interesting ...
22:44:44 [talli]
they did an outstanding job in documenting the right way to build the workflow and how peer review should work, etc.
22:45:06 [donb]
Are you able to redistribute the work you did for them?
22:45:09 [talli]
but they build their system using mysql/perl/apache from scratch
22:45:24 [davb]
Don:Neophytos was discussing integrating more of workflow into the packages user interfaces.
22:45:25 [talli]
we're rebuilding the whole system in openacs4 using workflow
22:45:33 [davb]
here yesterday
22:46:00 [talli]
so we think that there is a good chance that the most advanced double blind peer review system out there will be GPL'ed in openacs4
22:46:16 [rbm]
talli: good stuff
22:46:22 [talli]
yeah, we're hoping so
22:46:37 [talli]
the system could have a nice niche within dotLRN for more than one reason
22:46:37 [donb]
Neophytos and I have been talking about this a lot, yes, for quite a long time. We've been kicking around a bunch of ideas but I've been suggesting we hold off much public talk until we get our release cranked out. I'm worried about folks getting too distracted...
22:46:57 [donb]
I'm worried about *me* getting too distracted :)
22:47:05 [donb]
Talli - yes sounds really cool.
22:47:11 [talli]
btw, i was fighting neophytos and kapil about whether or not workflow should be integrated thoughout the system
22:47:32 [donb]
Is that all over with, Roberto?
22:47:40 [talli]
i thought it might be too much overhead for someone just interested in setting up a site for their boy scout troop
22:47:46 [rbm]
donb: Bwahahaha. *sighs* no
22:48:15 [talli]
then i spoke with lars and he said that workflow was built with the idea of centralizing all the processes, so i guess that it's a good idea after all :)
22:48:26 [Psychephylax]
i love arguing
22:48:47 [donb]
Unfortunately we've just about run out of communist countries for you to come from, Roberto. It was always easy to get political refuges in ... we had no trouble with our Polish escapee but man, the Dutch guy was almost impossible to get here (years ago)
22:49:23 [donb]
They probably filled the letter with white powder ...
22:49:48 [Psychephylax]
I'm too good at it
22:49:51 [Psychephylax]
I should have been a lawyer
22:50:17 [donb]
Talli - workflow can largely be hidden from a package's user or site admin, just need to set up a reasonable workflow default and they only need to worry about it if they want to change it.
22:50:33 [donb]
Heh ... I've been told by lawyers I should've been a lawyer - watch it!
22:50:49 [rbm]
donb: You'd be a great lawyer :)
22:50:58 [donb]
Naw, I have a soul...
22:51:04 [rbm]
heheh
22:51:07 [donb]
(and I want to keep it!)
22:51:19 [talli]
donb, you would also make a good executioner (if one could die from flaming posts)
22:51:34 [talli]
:)
22:51:34 [donb]
I learned to argue from my mother, actually ...
22:51:38 [Psychephylax]
I just argued my boss on the topic of RCS vs. CVS
22:51:40 [Psychephylax]
I won
22:51:48 [donb]
which are you using?
22:51:52 [Psychephylax]
CVS of course
22:51:59 [Psychephylax]
He was attempting to get me to use RCS
22:52:01 [donb]
But it uses RCS so did you really win?
22:52:09 [Psychephylax]
yes
22:52:11 [Psychephylax]
:P
22:52:12 [donb]
At least I think it does, doesn't it?
22:52:16 [Psychephylax]
yes it does
22:52:32 [talli]
have a good weekend everybody
22:52:33 [talli]
talli has quit
22:53:06 [Psychephylax]
CVS is more useful now
22:53:06 [donb]
Hey, I'm going to run, too. I'm going to take my laptop over to a coffee shop and hack on Simon's list of little things wrong with the Oracle version ...
22:53:10 [Psychephylax]
a lot more people use it
22:53:14 [Psychephylax]
heh
22:53:17 [donb]
I know - I'm just teasing...
22:53:17 [Psychephylax]
ok, bye Don :)
22:53:26 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax departs
22:53:27 [Psychephylax]
Psychephylax has quit
22:53:45 [donb]
Roberto - I just did a "which jade" and I've got it installed here ... cool.
22:54:04 [donb]
Let me know how the XML reverse-engineering goes!
22:54:26 [donb]
OK - see y'all later ...
22:54:29 [donb]
donb has quit
23:30:16 [davb]
* davb recompiles the kernel
23:34:28 [davb]
* davb reboots
23:34:35 [davb]
davb has quit