00:03:32 hey mark 00:08:43 hiya 00:21:37 * rbm replies to some oacs bboard questions 00:25:39 * markd2 chugs through some email before turning in 00:29:17 nap time. catch folks tomorrow 00:29:20 markd2 has quit 00:43:27 * AaronSw returns 00:43:40 hey aaron 00:44:30 hello 00:44:48 dircproxy rocks! ;) 00:52:12 what's that/ 00:52:44 An IRC proxy/bouncer -- lets me disconnect my machine and logs IRC messages until I come back 00:59:04 thats pretty cool. 01:02:59 Yeah, it makes me less afraid of quitting out of IRC, which is good ;) 01:07:58 heh 01:08:03 screen and bitchx do the same thing :P 01:09:12 and muh if you want a bouncer too ;) 01:09:56 I use screen all the time. 01:10:05 i love screen 01:10:23 I have a BitchX screen and an RC5 screen all the time 01:11:30 rc5? 01:12:28 what exactly does screen do? 01:12:51 larspind has joined #openacs 01:12:57 Hi Lars! 01:13:01 hi lars 01:13:02 wohoo 01:13:02 hi! 01:13:16 talli is over there in the corner ;) 01:14:09 screen is like a detachable virtual terminal 01:14:27 You can put it in the background and log out but it still keeps doing what it's doing 01:14:27 Ah, cool. 01:14:41 RC5 is a distributed computing project 01:14:47 www.distributed.net :) 01:14:56 No OGR? 01:14:56 We try to break encryption and force RSA make better one 01:15:00 OGR too 01:15:06 rbm: what do you think of the ad university course list? Is it a good path for learning CS? Can you think of anything that it doesn't have? (or anyone else who might have an opinion) 01:15:13 what's OGR? 01:15:14 Yeah d.net is pretty cool... but Cosm looks even neater. 01:15:34 OGR is anoter distributed computing project, but a more useful one 01:15:38 ;) 01:15:46 Optimal something coulumb or some weirdness like that 01:16:05 Optimal Golomb Rulers, useful in all sorts of science stuff 01:16:33 ah 01:16:38 see..lol, not interested in that 01:16:43 I just wanna keep my CC safe 01:16:50 :-) 01:17:03 Well, just because RC5 sucks doesn't mean you need to use it. 01:17:04 Then cut it up in little pieces and eat the bill every month :) 01:17:06 davb: haven't looked. 01:17:11 Ah. darn. 01:17:24 Ah, distributed.net. Yes, I used to run it. 01:17:35 I thought you were talking about the encryption algorithm. 01:18:10 Yeah, I used to run d.net too. 01:18:20 You guys should run it some more and join my team :) 01:18:36 http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/tmsummary.php3?team=35018375 01:18:36 A: http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/tmsummary.php3?team=35018375 from Spork 01:18:49 A:| DSLReports.com RC5 team 01:18:49 titled item A 01:18:52 Nah, I want all the money! mwahaha 01:18:55 A: We do it for cows! 01:18:55 commented item A 01:20:29 docwolf has joined #openacs 01:20:38 Ahh, cool a Mac OS X client is out. 01:20:52 hi folks 01:20:55 hello 01:20:59 Hi docwolf 01:21:00 are you using netzero? 01:21:04 hi 01:25:59 what the hell is lars in here for? 01:26:29 no one listen to lars! he's dangerous. 01:26:49 talli has quit 01:27:11 Heheheh. 01:27:17 larspind better watch out 01:31:03 abbaJ has joined #openacs 01:35:18 hey! 01:36:23 hey lars. Welcome to #openacs. 01:36:49 <-- hadn't noticed lars come in 01:37:06 tell talli i can be here too :) 01:38:15 paylars 01:38:32 oh, wait, not _that_ lars 01:41:10 napster, bad. 01:44:09 any mandrake users out there? 01:45:51 state diagrams suck :P 01:46:32 Spork: :-) 01:46:41 * Spork sporks into action 01:46:42 yes? 01:47:43 sorry rbm got me hooked on debian :) 01:48:17 i've got this grotesque winmodem built into my dell laptop 01:49:52 debian roxq0rs 01:50:18 how does one watch AVIs in linux? does one at all? 01:50:24 or DivX stuff? 01:54:23 DivX I dont' think yet 01:54:27 AVI you can 01:55:03 cool 01:57:57 You sure can watch Divx on Linux 01:58:10 linuxvideo.org or something like that tells all 01:58:11 brb 02:02:52 ah 02:02:56 i'll take a look later 02:12:56 Ack: Jakob is right! 02:12:59 Solid default designs for end users: Most web projects are not good at interaction design. As a result, advanced features easily end up unusable unless the default design is so good that they won't touch it. 02:12:59 Simplicity for web builders: Although it is often overlooked, programmers are people too, and they appreciate increased tool usability. Sure, they can figure out a complex API, but why waste their time? 02:33:47 docwolf has quit 02:58:57 anyone know what's the 'right' way to change the font color in CSS? 03:08:44 font-colo 03:08:48 err font-color 03:11:28 Inline? example please. 03:11:41 I suck at making things pretty 03:11:41 larspind has quit 03:11:47 larspind has joined #openacs 03:12:21 larspind has quit 03:18:15 Use a tag in the of your page to point to a .css document 03:18:21 in the .css document put somehting like 03:18:29 .frooznats { font-color: purple } 03:18:41 and in your document the purple colored things should look like: 03:18:51 this is cool 03:22:00 rzolf has joined #openacs 03:24:56 rzolf has quit 03:27:16 gotcha. 03:27:19 tks aaron 03:27:28 sure 03:27:38 I knew about linking to a css, but my css knowledge is pretty minimal 03:28:06 Ahh, OK, was just going to say the link format was: 03:28:11 glad i could help 03:29:26 bbiab 03:47:13 heh 03:47:20 me sleep =D 03:47:23 * Spork detaches 03:47:41 * Spork returns with shaking a spoon angrily 03:47:46 arg 03:47:52 grammar has gone to hell 05:44:38 ola has joined #openacs 06:40:08 abbaJ has quit 09:19:59 jerryasher has quit 10:29:06 davb has quit 11:28:54 ola has quit 13:03:13 davb has joined #openacs 13:39:26 Zeke has joined #openacs 13:40:36 Anyone know if there's any IRC activity around ACS Java development? 13:54:11 I don't think so. 13:56:04 Zeke has quit 13:56:55 markd2 has joined #openacs 14:09:39 Good morning markd2 14:10:24 greetings 14:21:30 yo 14:22:23 Zeke has joined #openacs 14:22:39 hello 14:22:52 heya 14:24:06 * Spork sporks Mark 14:24:27 I'm looking for a channel where ACS-Java types hangout 14:24:37 this is pretty much tcl-land 14:24:44 and Oracle :) 14:25:20 yah, I figured 14:25:45 I did a tcl acs last year, but I'm trying to do a 4.x site now 14:26:03 you can still do it in tcl 14:26:21 yes, I know :) 14:26:29 but I *like* Java 14:27:13 given the aD license, the OpenACS crew won't be picking up java 14:27:16 although we're still a bunch of nice guys :-) 14:27:22 heh 14:27:24 there's also a #java channel here on openprojects 14:27:26 it's not abouto what YOU like, it's about the tools at hand and what your boss orders you to do -=) 14:27:28 but that's more generic java stuff 14:27:54 <- is the boss, gets to make the choices :) 14:28:01 ah 14:28:02 then it works 14:28:11 yah, I hang out on #java on efnet 14:28:43 Spork: do you think I should go for a CS degree? 14:30:25 depends on what you want to do with your life :-) 14:30:30 * markd2 is not Spork, but plays one on TV 14:31:30 Aha. Well I plan on programming computers and I figured it would be handy to actually know what I was doing. 14:31:32 I think you should match me up with a spoon first then we'll talk :) 14:31:32 Dave, it really does 14:31:32 If you can get a good job without one, wasting time getting one is not as essential as you would think 14:31:34 i guess it depends on the school though 14:31:49 Aha. Well I guess I'll just wing it. 14:31:55 many jobs, though, look askanse if you don't have a degree 14:31:57 it worked so far. 14:32:05 a friend of mine is having trouble finding work in the NoVA area because of it 14:32:12 and he does have some holes in the education 14:32:36 particularly data structures and algorithm analysis 14:32:50 I think that is the stuff I am interested in. 14:32:50 e.g. knowing when O(n^2) is OK, and when you need to look for something better 14:33:10 if you're at a place where you can take it after-hours, or pick and choose classes, that may be the best 14:33:14 I don't think I'll get that hacking on OpenACS 14:33:31 Yeah. That is my plan. Empire State College lets you design a program based on what you want to learn. 14:33:34 so you don't have to take the crap like History of Western Literature for Pretentious Blow-hards 14:33:37 sweet 14:33:43 * Spork shivers at the big Oh notation 14:33:47 make it stop make it stop! 14:33:48 big Oh rules(tm() 14:33:59 in that case just take the cool stuff :-) 14:34:21 heh 14:34:23 where's this school 14:34:26 "I don't have a degree, but I have taken data structures, theory of computation, compiler design, and advanced database implementation and passed with an A average" 14:34:28 Thanks guys. That means I better learn all that math. 14:34:29 i don't mind a re-education 14:34:32 Spork: its everywhere. 14:34:46 Based in albany. Its part of SUNY. 14:34:50 hmm 14:34:56 it's a SUNY day out here too 14:34:56 http://www.esc.edu 14:34:57 A: http://www.esc.edu from davb 14:35:07 A:|Empire State College 14:35:07 titled item A 14:35:16 A: School without walls, or something like that 14:35:17 commented item A 14:36:14 arg 14:36:22 ht+ to the front 14:37:24 well there you go. 14:38:12 cool 14:38:15 I just might do that 14:38:20 How's their tuition? 14:38:53 Same as SUNY. 14:39:33 hmmm 14:39:39 Ok, then how's the education? 14:40:53 That depends I guess. Its self-directed. They help you work towards your goals. You get a mentor who helps you write up a plan and figure out how you will complete it. 14:41:29 They give you credit for learning stuff. You have to work it out with the mentor how they will evaluate what you have learned. 14:41:56 A: For OpenACS hackers who need a degree 14:41:57 commented item A 14:56:16 hmmm 14:56:19 that sounds fun 14:57:06 * davb checks Spork's sarcasm meter... 14:57:26 Zeke has quit 15:00:03 ola has joined #openacs 15:00:12 I'm serious 15:00:14 Hi ola. 15:00:17 hola guys! 15:00:17 Cool. 15:01:10 hey ola 15:01:23 * Spork stabs ola with a psychephylax 15:02:04 hey spork! 15:02:11 :) 15:03:14 spork: you change nickname more often than I change socks! 15:03:30 you're supposed to change socks? 15:03:41 dunno. 15:07:08 :/ 15:07:17 I'm mentally unstable 15:07:24 I need change in my daily life 15:09:02 * markd2 tosses Spork 37 cents 15:09:13 * Spork eats it 15:10:30 ok 15:10:33 I need help 15:10:45 My gas sensor on my car is acting weird 15:10:58 telnet into it and see if it connects 15:11:02 it shows empty when it's full or half when it's full 15:11:08 tried that 15:11:17 Someone firewalled it pretty well 15:12:18 it's going to be ~230$ to fix 15:12:22 should I fix it or not? 15:20:10 I would 15:20:24 but I'm paranoid about running out of gas in the middle of nowhere 15:23:34 me too 15:23:50 It also pisses the hell out of me because i look at that more than i look at the road now 15:24:57 docwolf has joined #openacs 15:25:45 yo 15:26:24 hi 15:26:51 spork: you shouldn't be looking at the road. the road might turn! 15:26:53 greetings 15:27:06 lol 15:27:09 Ola, re-read that 15:49:19 wtf 15:49:24 This makes no sense! 15:50:14 heh 15:50:30 I'm trying to link a library 15:50:36 and it's pointing to the right place 15:50:38 but it still cant 15:50:41 find it 15:50:59 ld: fatal: library -l/opt/local/lib/snmp++: not found 15:50:59 ld: fatal: File processing errors. No output written to nssnmp.so 15:51:14 MODLIBS = -l/opt/local/lib/snmp++ 15:53:01 docwolf has quit 15:56:10 wow. I know have almost $2000 worth of books in my Amazon wish-list. 15:57:15 if you're going to use the full path, you'll need it to match the library file 15:57:20 which is most likely libsnmp++.so 15:57:23 or libsnmp++.a 15:58:01 yeah 15:58:25 but I tried that and still get the same error 15:58:57 but the ld -l tag says it adds the lib prefix and the .so suffix 15:59:21 Search a library libx.so or libx.a, the conven- 15:59:21 tional names for shared object and archive 15:59:22 libraries, respectively. 15:59:36 of course the underlines didn't come through 16:00:00 but your'e giving it the full path 16:00:09 which might short-circuit the auto name generation 16:00:17 vinod has joined #openacs 16:00:20 do -L/opt/local/whatever -lsmtp++ 16:00:26 I did 16:00:38 it's not finding it because it doesn't know to look in /opt/local/lib 16:00:50 oh 16:00:52 hang on 16:01:45 I hate you :P 16:02:56 it works? 16:03:13 Hi vinod! 16:03:40 yes 16:03:42 Hey Vinod 16:04:00 hey everyone! 16:04:35 ok Mark, I got a hard question for you thenk 16:04:36 then 16:04:51 is there a way to find out who you're logged in as 16:04:52 I do set 16:04:55 and see USER=me 16:05:06 but does it change if you su without using the - 16:05:35 I use whoami on linux 16:06:04 not installed on this box 16:06:14 you just cannot win. 16:06:21 tell me about it 16:06:33 you can also use "id" 16:06:51 cool 16:06:54 * davb learns something new 16:07:15 good good... :) 16:07:25 but is there a way to find out how many levels of su you did so far? 16:09:27 I doubt it 16:10:38 doh! 16:13:36 hmm.. 16:14:19 I can't drop my package 16:15:01 errors? 16:20:11 argh! I changed the name of the package from mp3jukebox to mp3-jukebox 16:20:23 and now the parameters won't work. 16:20:35 aha. 16:20:47 Did you update the .info file? 16:20:53 so I can't recreate the old error.. 16:20:57 yes. 16:21:15 aha. 16:23:38 talli has joined #openacs 16:23:48 Hi talli. 16:24:10 hello everybody 16:24:13 not including vinod 16:24:34 ola: did you change the package after it was installed? 16:24:49 * markd2 hellos vinod 16:25:19 thanks markd2 16:25:26 * vinod sticks tongue out at talli 16:25:54 * talli grabs vinods tongue and fillets it with a rusty fish hook 16:26:10 mmmmm ... fillets 16:26:14 ola: I can't see anywhere it references the name except in the .info file 16:27:23 davb: yeah, I changed that and the create/drop scripts. 16:28:22 Unfortunately that is the extent of my knowledge. 16:34:14 ola: are you trying to drop the package from psql? 16:34:25 no problem, Dave. I just have to dig around a bit. 16:37:01 vinod: I *can* drop if I dont insert any mp3s in the db. if I do, there are some "parse error" somewhere.. 16:37:24 dropping behaves the same from psql and package manager. 16:38:58 the problem now is that I can't show you the error because I've introduced another one:-( 16:40:11 :-) errors hidden by errors. I'm good at those. (at least at creating them) 16:40:35 lol 16:41:39 aha. I know what it is! 16:41:45 sounds like a good resume bullet point 16:41:52 hh 16:42:01 hardcode hell 16:45:34 lol 16:45:42 nice legal remark on a website: My lawyer can whup your lawyer. 16:45:56 heh 16:48:17 ok 16:48:26 this is what I get: 16:48:29 Error: POST /acs-admin/apm/package-delete-2.tcl psql:mp3-jukebox-drop.sql:54: ERROR: parser: parse error at or near "mp3__delete" 16:48:29 psql:mp3-jukebox-drop.sql:80: ERROR: acs_objects_object_type_fk referential integrity violation - key in acs_object_types still referenced from acs_objects 16:49:04 doesn't say much, heh. 16:49:25 Aha, 16:49:27 do you have any acs_objects that are of a type created by the mp3 jukebox package? 16:49:42 sounds like you're dropping a type, but there's still objects of that type 16:50:21 markd2: yes, "mp3" and "mp3_playlist" 16:51:33 if I don't have any mp3s or playlists in the db everything drops fine. 16:51:58 so it sounds like you either need to clean up the mp3s or playlists, or leave the acs_type floating around the system 16:54:06 let me show you a cursor that should clean up those things so you can see if its wrong 16:54:11 ok 16:54:14 create function inline_0 () 16:54:15 returns integer as ' 16:54:15 declare 16:54:15 v_play_recrecord; 16:54:15 v_mp3_recrecord; 16:54:15 begin 16:54:17 for v_play_rec in select playlist_id from mp3_playlists 16:54:19 loop 16:54:21 mp3_playlist__delete (v_play_rec.playlist_id); 16:54:23 end loop; 16:54:25 for v_mp3_rec in select mp3_id from mp3_mp3s 16:54:27 loop 16:54:29 mp3__delete (v_mp3_rec.mp3_id); 16:54:31 end loop; 16:54:33 return 0; 16:54:35 end;' language 'plpgsql'; 16:55:03 psql complains right at inline_0()... 16:56:10 I don't know plpgsql, but what's the complaint at inine_O? 16:56:19 ola: looks like you got 2 errors above. 1) mp3__delete didn't work 2) acs_objects are still hanging around so you can't delete the type 16:56:37 exactly 16:56:50 error 2 is probably dependent on error 1, so we need to figure out why there's a parse error at mp3__delete 16:56:53 mp3__delete works in psql.. 16:57:39 markd2: psql:mp3-jukebox-drop.sql:54: ERROR: parser: parse error at or near 16:57:40 "mp3__delete" 16:58:08 line 54 is the call to inline_0() 16:59:02 anything above that could leave a lingering error? 16:59:11 like an unclosed string or a missing ";"? 16:59:15 talli has quit 17:00:53 I dunno, but it executes nicely when there's no playlists and stuff. 17:02:01 is there a way to source a file in aolserver? 17:02:22 like a tcl file that is 17:02:42 ola: could you post the code to mp3__delete (if it's not too long) 17:03:34 vinod: sure, hang on. 17:03:51 Spork: http://aolserver.com/docs/tcl/tcl8.3/TclCmd/source.htm 17:04:01