IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:03:32 [rbm]

hey mark

00:08:43 [markd2]

hiya

00:21:37 [rbm]

* rbm replies to some oacs bboard questions

00:25:39 [markd2]

* markd2 chugs through some email before turning in

00:29:17 [markd2]

nap time. catch folks tomorrow

00:29:20 [markd2]

markd2 has quit

00:43:27 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw returns

00:43:40 [rbm]

hey aaron

00:44:30 [AaronSw]

hello

00:44:48 [AaronSw]

dircproxy rocks! ;)

00:52:12 [rbm]

what's that/

00:52:44 [AaronSw]

An IRC proxy/bouncer -- lets me disconnect my machine and logs IRC messages until I come back

00:59:04 [davb]

thats pretty cool.

01:02:59 [AaronSw]

Yeah, it makes me less afraid of quitting out of IRC, which is good ;)

01:07:58 [Spork]

heh

01:08:03 [Spork]

screen and bitchx do the same thing :P

01:09:12 [Spork]

and muh if you want a bouncer too ;)

01:09:56 [rbm]

I use screen all the time.

01:10:05 [Spork]

i love screen

01:10:23 [Spork]

I have a BitchX screen and an RC5 screen all the time

01:11:30 [rbm]

rc5?

01:12:28 [AaronSw]

what exactly does screen do?

01:12:51 [larspind]

larspind has joined #openacs

01:12:57 [AaronSw]

Hi Lars!

01:13:01 [davb]

hi lars

01:13:02 [larspind]

wohoo

01:13:02 [larspind]

hi!

01:13:16 [AaronSw]

talli is over there in the corner ;)

01:14:09 [Spork]

screen is like a detachable virtual terminal

01:14:27 [Spork]

You can put it in the background and log out but it still keeps doing what it's doing

01:14:27 [AaronSw]

Ah, cool.

01:14:41 [Spork]

RC5 is a distributed computing project

01:14:47 [Spork]

www.distributed.net :)

01:14:56 [AaronSw]

No OGR?

01:14:56 [Spork]

We try to break encryption and force RSA make better one

01:15:00 [Spork]

OGR too

01:15:06 [davb]

rbm: what do you think of the ad university course list? Is it a good path for learning CS? Can you think of anything that it doesn't have? (or anyone else who might have an opinion)

01:15:13 [davb]

what's OGR?

01:15:14 [AaronSw]

Yeah d.net is pretty cool... but Cosm looks even neater.

01:15:34 [AaronSw]

OGR is anoter distributed computing project, but a more useful one

01:15:38 [AaronSw]

;)

01:15:46 [Spork]

Optimal something coulumb or some weirdness like that

01:16:05 [AaronSw]

Optimal Golomb Rulers, useful in all sorts of science stuff

01:16:33 [Spork]

ah

01:16:38 [Spork]

see..lol, not interested in that

01:16:43 [Spork]

I just wanna keep my CC safe

01:16:50 [AaronSw]

:-)

01:17:03 [AaronSw]

Well, just because RC5 sucks doesn't mean you need to use it.

01:17:04 [davb]

Then cut it up in little pieces and eat the bill every month :)

01:17:06 [rbm]

davb: haven't looked.

01:17:11 [davb]

Ah. darn.

01:17:24 [rbm]

Ah, distributed.net. Yes, I used to run it.

01:17:35 [rbm]

I thought you were talking about the encryption algorithm.

01:18:10 [AaronSw]

Yeah, I used to run d.net too.

01:18:20 [Spork]

You guys should run it some more and join my team :)

01:18:36 [Spork]

http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/tmsummary.php3?team=35018375

01:18:36 [chump]

A: http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/tmsummary.php3?team=35018375 from Spork

01:18:49 [Spork]

A:| DSLReports.com RC5 team

01:18:49 [chump]

titled item A

01:18:52 [AaronSw]

Nah, I want all the money! mwahaha

01:18:55 [Spork]

A: We do it for cows!

01:18:55 [chump]

commented item A

01:20:29 [docwolf]

docwolf has joined #openacs

01:20:38 [AaronSw]

Ahh, cool a Mac OS X client is out.

01:20:52 [docwolf]

hi folks

01:20:55 [Spork]

hello

01:20:59 [AaronSw]

Hi docwolf

01:21:00 [Spork]

are you using netzero?

01:21:04 [davb]

hi

01:25:59 [talli]

what the hell is lars in here for?

01:26:29 [talli]

no one listen to lars! he's dangerous.

01:26:49 [talli]

talli has quit

01:27:11 [AaronSw]

Heheheh.

01:27:17 [AaronSw]

larspind better watch out

01:31:03 [abbaJ]

abbaJ has joined #openacs

01:35:18 [larspind]

hey!

01:36:23 [rbm]

hey lars. Welcome to #openacs.

01:36:49 [rbm]

<-- hadn't noticed lars come in

01:37:06 [larspind]

tell talli i can be here too :)

01:38:15 [docwolf]

paylars

01:38:32 [docwolf]

oh, wait, not _that_ lars

01:41:10 [docwolf]

napster, bad.

01:44:09 [docwolf]

any mandrake users out there?

01:45:51 [Spork]

state diagrams suck :P

01:46:32 [rbm]

Spork: :-)

01:46:41 [Spork]

* Spork sporks into action

01:46:42 [Spork]

yes?

01:47:43 [davb]

sorry rbm got me hooked on debian :)

01:48:17 [docwolf]

i've got this grotesque winmodem built into my dell laptop

01:49:52 [rbm]

debian roxq0rs

01:50:18 [docwolf]

how does one watch AVIs in linux? does one at all?

01:50:24 [docwolf]

or DivX stuff?

01:54:23 [Spork]

DivX I dont' think yet

01:54:27 [Spork]

AVI you can

01:55:03 [docwolf]

cool

01:57:57 [rbm]

You sure can watch Divx on Linux

01:58:10 [rbm]

linuxvideo.org or something like that tells all

01:58:11 [rbm]

brb

02:02:52 [Spork]

ah

02:02:56 [Spork]

i'll take a look later

02:12:56 [davb]

Ack: Jakob is right!

02:12:59 [davb]

Solid default designs for end users: Most web projects are not good at interaction design. As a result, advanced features easily end up unusable unless the default design is so good that they won't touch it.

02:12:59 [davb]

Simplicity for web builders: Although it is often overlooked, programmers are people too, and they appreciate increased tool usability. Sure, they can figure out a complex API, but why waste their time?

02:33:47 [docwolf]

docwolf has quit

02:58:57 [rbm]

anyone know what's the 'right' way to change the font color in CSS?

03:08:44 [AaronSw]

font-colo

03:08:48 [AaronSw]

err font-color

03:11:28 [rbm]

Inline? example please.

03:11:41 [rbm]

I suck at making things pretty

03:11:41 [larspind]

larspind has quit

03:11:47 [larspind]

larspind has joined #openacs

03:12:21 [larspind]

larspind has quit

03:18:15 [AaronSw]

Use a <link> tag in the <head> of your page to point to a .css document

03:18:21 [AaronSw]

in the .css document put somehting like

03:18:29 [AaronSw]

.frooznats { font-color: purple }

03:18:41 [AaronSw]

and in your document the purple colored things should look like:

03:18:51 [AaronSw]

<span class="frooznats">this is cool</span>

03:22:00 [rzolf]

rzolf has joined #openacs

03:24:56 [rzolf]

rzolf has quit

03:27:16 [rbm]

gotcha.

03:27:19 [rbm]

tks aaron

03:27:28 [AaronSw]

sure

03:27:38 [rbm]

I knew about linking to a css, but my css knowledge is pretty minimal

03:28:06 [AaronSw]

Ahh, OK, was just going to say the link format was: <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="main.css" />

03:28:11 [AaronSw]

glad i could help

03:29:26 [rbm]

bbiab

03:47:13 [Spork]

heh

03:47:20 [Spork]

me sleep =D

03:47:23 [Spork]

* Spork detaches

03:47:41 [Spork]

* Spork returns with shaking a spoon angrily

03:47:46 [Spork]

arg

03:47:52 [Spork]

grammar has gone to hell

05:44:38 [ola]

ola has joined #openacs

06:40:08 [abbaJ]

abbaJ has quit

09:19:59 [jerryasher]

jerryasher has quit

10:29:06 [davb]

davb has quit

11:28:54 [ola]

ola has quit

13:03:13 [davb]

davb has joined #openacs

13:39:26 [Zeke]

Zeke has joined #openacs

13:40:36 [Zeke]

Anyone know if there's any IRC activity around ACS Java development?

13:54:11 [davb]

I don't think so.

13:56:04 [Zeke]

Zeke has quit

13:56:55 [markd2]

markd2 has joined #openacs

14:09:39 [davb]

Good morning markd2

14:10:24 [markd2]

greetings

14:21:30 [Spork]

yo

14:22:23 [Zeke]

Zeke has joined #openacs

14:22:39 [markd2]

hello

14:22:52 [Zeke]

heya

14:24:06 [Spork]

* Spork sporks Mark

14:24:27 [Zeke]

I'm looking for a channel where ACS-Java types hangout

14:24:37 [markd2]

this is pretty much tcl-land

14:24:44 [Spork]

and Oracle :)

14:25:20 [Zeke]

yah, I figured

14:25:45 [Zeke]

I did a tcl acs last year, but I'm trying to do a 4.x site now

14:26:03 [Spork]

you can still do it in tcl

14:26:21 [Zeke]

yes, I know :)

14:26:29 [Zeke]

but I *like* Java

14:27:13 [markd2]

given the aD license, the OpenACS crew won't be picking up java

14:27:16 [markd2]

although we're still a bunch of nice guys :-)

14:27:22 [Zeke]

heh

14:27:24 [markd2]

there's also a #java channel here on openprojects

14:27:26 [Spork]

it's not abouto what YOU like, it's about the tools at hand and what your boss orders you to do -=)

14:27:28 [markd2]

but that's more generic java stuff

14:27:54 [Zeke]

<- is the boss, gets to make the choices :)

14:28:01 [Spork]

ah

14:28:02 [Spork]

then it works

14:28:11 [Zeke]

yah, I hang out on #java on efnet

14:28:43 [davb]

Spork: do you think I should go for a CS degree?

14:30:25 [markd2]

depends on what you want to do with your life :-)

14:30:30 [markd2]

* markd2 is not Spork, but plays one on TV

14:31:30 [davb]

Aha. Well I plan on programming computers and I figured it would be handy to actually know what I was doing.

14:31:32 [Spork]

I think you should match me up with a spoon first then we'll talk :)

14:31:32 [Spork]

Dave, it really does

14:31:32 [Spork]

If you can get a good job without one, wasting time getting one is not as essential as you would think

14:31:34 [Spork]

i guess it depends on the school though

14:31:49 [davb]

Aha. Well I guess I'll just wing it.

14:31:55 [markd2]

many jobs, though, look askanse if you don't have a degree

14:31:57 [davb]

it worked so far.

14:32:05 [markd2]

a friend of mine is having trouble finding work in the NoVA area because of it

14:32:12 [markd2]

and he does have some holes in the education

14:32:36 [markd2]

particularly data structures and algorithm analysis

14:32:50 [davb]

I think that is the stuff I am interested in.

14:32:50 [markd2]

e.g. knowing when O(n^2) is OK, and when you need to look for something better

14:33:10 [markd2]

if you're at a place where you can take it after-hours, or pick and choose classes, that may be the best

14:33:14 [davb]

I don't think I'll get that hacking on OpenACS

14:33:31 [davb]

Yeah. That is my plan. Empire State College lets you design a program based on what you want to learn.

14:33:34 [markd2]

so you don't have to take the crap like History of Western Literature for Pretentious Blow-hards

14:33:37 [markd2]

sweet

14:33:43 [Spork]

* Spork shivers at the big Oh notation

14:33:47 [Spork]

make it stop make it stop!

14:33:48 [markd2]

big Oh rules(tm()

14:33:59 [markd2]

in that case just take the cool stuff :-)

14:34:21 [Spork]

heh

14:34:23 [Spork]

where's this school

14:34:26 [markd2]

"I don't have a degree, but I have taken data structures, theory of computation, compiler design, and advanced database implementation and passed with an A average"

14:34:28 [davb]

Thanks guys. That means I better learn all that math.

14:34:29 [Spork]

i don't mind a re-education

14:34:32 [davb]

Spork: its everywhere.

14:34:46 [davb]

Based in albany. Its part of SUNY.

14:34:50 [Spork]

hmm

14:34:56 [markd2]

it's a SUNY day out here too

14:34:56 [davb]

http://www.esc.edu

14:34:57 [chump]

A: http://www.esc.edu from davb

14:35:07 [davb]

A:|Empire State College

14:35:07 [chump]

titled item A

14:35:16 [davb]

A: School without walls, or something like that

14:35:17 [chump]

commented item A

14:36:14 [Spork]

arg

14:36:22 [Spork]

ht+ to the front

14:37:24 [davb]

well there you go.

14:38:12 [Spork]

cool

14:38:15 [Spork]

I just might do that

14:38:20 [Spork]

How's their tuition?

14:38:53 [davb]

Same as SUNY.

14:39:33 [Spork]

hmmm

14:39:39 [Spork]

Ok, then how's the education?

14:40:53 [davb]

That depends I guess. Its self-directed. They help you work towards your goals. You get a mentor who helps you write up a plan and figure out how you will complete it.

14:41:29 [davb]

They give you credit for learning stuff. You have to work it out with the mentor how they will evaluate what you have learned.

14:41:56 [davb]

A: For OpenACS hackers who need a degree

14:41:57 [chump]

commented item A

14:56:16 [Spork]

hmmm

14:56:19 [Spork]

that sounds fun

14:57:06 [davb]

* davb checks Spork's sarcasm meter...

14:57:26 [Zeke]

Zeke has quit

15:00:03 [ola]

ola has joined #openacs

15:00:12 [Spork]

I'm serious

15:00:14 [davb]

Hi ola.

15:00:17 [ola]

hola guys!

15:00:17 [davb]

Cool.

15:01:10 [Spork]

hey ola

15:01:23 [Spork]

* Spork stabs ola with a psychephylax

15:02:04 [ola]

hey spork!

15:02:11 [Spork]

:)

15:03:14 [ola]

spork: you change nickname more often than I change socks!

15:03:30 [markd2]

you're supposed to change socks?

15:03:41 [ola]

dunno.

15:07:08 [Spork]

:/

15:07:17 [Spork]

I'm mentally unstable

15:07:24 [Spork]

I need change in my daily life

15:09:02 [markd2]

* markd2 tosses Spork 37 cents

15:09:13 [Spork]

* Spork eats it

15:10:30 [Spork]

ok

15:10:33 [Spork]

I need help

15:10:45 [Spork]

My gas sensor on my car is acting weird

15:10:58 [markd2]

telnet into it and see if it connects

15:11:02 [Spork]

it shows empty when it's full or half when it's full

15:11:08 [Spork]

tried that

15:11:17 [Spork]

Someone firewalled it pretty well

15:12:18 [Spork]

it's going to be ~230$ to fix

15:12:22 [Spork]

should I fix it or not?

15:20:10 [markd2]

I would

15:20:24 [markd2]

but I'm paranoid about running out of gas in the middle of nowhere

15:23:34 [Spork]

me too

15:23:50 [Spork]

It also pisses the hell out of me because i look at that more than i look at the road now

15:24:57 [docwolf]

docwolf has joined #openacs

15:25:45 [docwolf]

yo

15:26:24 [Spork]

hi

15:26:51 [ola]

spork: you shouldn't be looking at the road. the road might turn!

15:26:53 [markd2]

greetings

15:27:06 [Spork]

lol

15:27:09 [Spork]

Ola, re-read that

15:49:19 [Spork]

wtf

15:49:24 [Spork]

This makes no sense!

15:50:14 [markd2]

heh

15:50:30 [Spork]

I'm trying to link a library

15:50:36 [Spork]

and it's pointing to the right place

15:50:38 [Spork]

but it still cant

15:50:41 [Spork]

find it

15:50:59 [Spork]

ld: fatal: library -l/opt/local/lib/snmp++: not found

15:50:59 [Spork]

ld: fatal: File processing errors. No output written to nssnmp.so

15:51:14 [Spork]

MODLIBS = -l/opt/local/lib/snmp++

15:53:01 [docwolf]

docwolf has quit

15:56:10 [davb]

wow. I know have almost $2000 worth of books in my Amazon wish-list.

15:57:15 [markd2]

if you're going to use the full path, you'll need it to match the library file

15:57:20 [markd2]

which is most likely libsnmp++.so

15:57:23 [markd2]

or libsnmp++.a

15:58:01 [Spork]

yeah

15:58:25 [Spork]

but I tried that and still get the same error

15:58:57 [Spork]

but the ld -l tag says it adds the lib prefix and the .so suffix

15:59:21 [Spork]

Search a library libx.so or libx.a, the conven-

15:59:21 [Spork]

tional names for shared object and archive

15:59:22 [Spork]

libraries, respectively.

15:59:36 [Spork]

of course the underlines didn't come through

16:00:00 [markd2]

but your'e giving it the full path

16:00:09 [markd2]

which might short-circuit the auto name generation

16:00:17 [vinod]

vinod has joined #openacs

16:00:20 [markd2]

do -L/opt/local/whatever -lsmtp++

16:00:26 [Spork]

I did

16:00:38 [Spork]

it's not finding it because it doesn't know to look in /opt/local/lib

16:00:50 [Spork]

oh

16:00:52 [Spork]

hang on

16:01:45 [Spork]

I hate you :P

16:02:56 [markd2]

it works?

16:03:13 [davb]

Hi vinod!

16:03:40 [Spork]

yes

16:03:42 [Spork]

Hey Vinod

16:04:00 [vinod]

hey everyone!

16:04:35 [Spork]

ok Mark, I got a hard question for you thenk

16:04:36 [Spork]

then

16:04:51 [Spork]

is there a way to find out who you're logged in as

16:04:52 [Spork]

I do set

16:04:55 [Spork]

and see USER=me

16:05:06 [Spork]

but does it change if you su without using the -

16:05:35 [davb]

I use whoami on linux

16:06:04 [Spork]

not installed on this box

16:06:14 [davb]

you just cannot win.

16:06:21 [Spork]

tell me about it

16:06:33 [markd2]

you can also use "id"

16:06:51 [davb]

cool

16:06:54 [davb]

* davb learns something new

16:07:15 [Spork]

good good... :)

16:07:25 [Spork]

but is there a way to find out how many levels of su you did so far?

16:09:27 [markd2]

I doubt it

16:10:38 [Spork]

doh!

16:13:36 [ola]

hmm..

16:14:19 [ola]

I can't drop my package

16:15:01 [davb]

errors?

16:20:11 [ola]

argh! I changed the name of the package from mp3jukebox to mp3-jukebox

16:20:23 [ola]

and now the parameters won't work.

16:20:35 [davb]

aha.

16:20:47 [davb]

Did you update the .info file?

16:20:53 [ola]

so I can't recreate the old error..

16:20:57 [ola]

yes.

16:21:15 [davb]

aha.

16:23:38 [talli]

talli has joined #openacs

16:23:48 [davb]

Hi talli.

16:24:10 [talli]

hello everybody

16:24:13 [talli]

not including vinod

16:24:34 [davb]

ola: did you change the package after it was installed?

16:24:49 [markd2]

* markd2 hellos vinod

16:25:19 [vinod]

thanks markd2

16:25:26 [vinod]

* vinod sticks tongue out at talli

16:25:54 [talli]

* talli grabs vinods tongue and fillets it with a rusty fish hook

16:26:10 [vinod]

mmmmm ... fillets

16:26:14 [davb]

ola: I can't see anywhere it references the name except in the .info file <package key="package_name">

16:27:23 [ola]

davb: yeah, I changed that and the create/drop scripts.

16:28:22 [davb]

Unfortunately that is the extent of my knowledge.

16:34:14 [vinod]

ola: are you trying to drop the package from psql?

16:34:25 [ola]

no problem, Dave. I just have to dig around a bit.

16:37:01 [ola]

vinod: I *can* drop if I dont insert any mp3s in the db. if I do, there are some "parse error" somewhere..

16:37:24 [ola]

dropping behaves the same from psql and package manager.

16:38:58 [ola]

the problem now is that I can't show you the error because I've introduced another one:-(

16:40:11 [vinod]

:-) errors hidden by errors. I'm good at those. (at least at creating them)

16:40:35 [Spork]

lol

16:41:39 [ola]

aha. I know what it is!

16:41:45 [markd2]

sounds like a good resume bullet point

16:41:52 [ola]

hh

16:42:01 [ola]

hardcode hell

16:45:34 [Spork]

lol

16:45:42 [Spork]

nice legal remark on a website: My lawyer can whup your lawyer.

16:45:56 [markd2]

heh

16:48:17 [ola]

ok

16:48:26 [ola]

this is what I get:

16:48:29 [ola]

Error: POST /acs-admin/apm/package-delete-2.tcl psql:mp3-jukebox-drop.sql:54: ERROR: parser: parse error at or near "mp3__delete"

16:48:29 [ola]

psql:mp3-jukebox-drop.sql:80: ERROR: acs_objects_object_type_fk referential integrity violation - key in acs_object_types still referenced from acs_objects

16:49:04 [ola]

doesn't say much, heh.

16:49:25 [davb]

Aha,

16:49:27 [markd2]

do you have any acs_objects that are of a type created by the mp3 jukebox package?

16:49:42 [markd2]

sounds like you're dropping a type, but there's still objects of that type

16:50:21 [ola]

markd2: yes, "mp3" and "mp3_playlist"

16:51:33 [ola]

if I don't have any mp3s or playlists in the db everything drops fine.

16:51:58 [markd2]

so it sounds like you either need to clean up the mp3s or playlists, or leave the acs_type floating around the system

16:54:06 [ola]

let me show you a cursor that should clean up those things so you can see if its wrong

16:54:11 [ola]

ok

16:54:14 [ola]

create function inline_0 ()

16:54:15 [ola]

returns integer as '

16:54:15 [ola]

declare

16:54:15 [ola]

v_play_recrecord;

16:54:15 [ola]

v_mp3_recrecord;

16:54:15 [ola]

begin

16:54:17 [ola]

for v_play_rec in select playlist_id from mp3_playlists

16:54:19 [ola]

loop

16:54:21 [ola]

mp3_playlist__delete (v_play_rec.playlist_id);

16:54:23 [ola]

end loop;

16:54:25 [ola]

for v_mp3_rec in select mp3_id from mp3_mp3s

16:54:27 [ola]

loop

16:54:29 [ola]

mp3__delete (v_mp3_rec.mp3_id);

16:54:31 [ola]

end loop;

16:54:33 [ola]

return 0;

16:54:35 [ola]

end;' language 'plpgsql';

16:55:03 [ola]

psql complains right at inline_0()...

16:56:10 [markd2]

I don't know plpgsql, but what's the complaint at inine_O?

16:56:19 [vinod]

ola: looks like you got 2 errors above. 1) mp3__delete didn't work 2) acs_objects are still hanging around so you can't delete the type

16:56:37 [ola]

exactly

16:56:50 [vinod]

error 2 is probably dependent on error 1, so we need to figure out why there's a parse error at mp3__delete

16:56:53 [ola]

mp3__delete works in psql..

16:57:39 [ola]

markd2: psql:mp3-jukebox-drop.sql:54: ERROR: parser: parse error at or near

16:57:40 [ola]

"mp3__delete"

16:58:08 [ola]

line 54 is the call to inline_0()

16:59:02 [markd2]

anything above that could leave a lingering error?

16:59:11 [markd2]

like an unclosed string or a missing ";"?

16:59:15 [talli]

talli has quit

17:00:53 [ola]

I dunno, but it executes nicely when there's no playlists and stuff.

17:02:01 [Spork]

is there a way to source a file in aolserver?

17:02:22 [Spork]

like a tcl file that is

17:02:42 [vinod]

ola: could you post the code to mp3__delete (if it's not too long)

17:03:34 [ola]

vinod: sure, hang on.

17:03:51 [vinod]

Spork: http://aolserver.com/docs/tcl/tcl8.3/TclCmd/source.htm

17:04:01 [ola]

create function mp3__delete (integer)

17:04:02 [ola]

returns integer as '

17:04:02 [ola]

declare

17:04:02 [ola]

p_mp3_idalias for $1;

17:04:02 [ola]

begin

17:04:02 [ola]

delete from mp3_mp3s

17:04:03 [ola]

where mp3_id = p_mp3_id;

17:04:05 [ola]

raise NOTICE ''Deleting mp3...'';

17:04:07 [ola]

PERFORM acs_object__delete(p_mp3_id);

17:04:09 [ola]

return 0;

17:04:11 [ola]

end;' language 'plpgsql';

17:04:36 [markd2]

http://www.shiosai.squares.net/Photos/EC113-domo5.jpg

17:04:36 [chump]

B: http://www.shiosai.squares.net/Photos/EC113-domo5.jpg from markd2

17:04:42 [markd2]

B: Rzolf in repose

17:04:42 [chump]

commented item B

17:05:18 [vinod]

ola: check the error log again for a sec... do you ever get that 'Deleting mp3...' in the log?

17:06:22 [ola]

vinod: lemme check.

17:07:04 [vinod]

markd2: how does rzolf code without fingers?

17:07:58 [markd2]

surprisingly well

17:08:03 [markd2]

that Kinesis keyboard is truly amazing

17:08:08 [vinod]

haha

17:08:35 [Spork]

ok

17:08:38 [Spork]

I need help :(

17:08:55 [Spork]

I'm rewriting a tcl standalone script to be used in a tcl page

17:09:00 [Spork]

in aolserver with nssnmp :)

17:09:15 [ola]

vinod: no I don't..

17:09:40 [ola]

this time around I got this:

17:09:42 [ola]

psql:mp3-jukebox-drop.sql:54: ERROR: parser: parse error at or near "mp3_playlist__delete"

17:10:21 [ola]

now I have both mp3s and playlists in the db.

17:10:42 [ola]

s/now/now that

17:11:34 [vinod]

ola: weird... and doing 'select mp3_playlist__delete( id );' in psql works (using a valid id)?

17:14:21 [ola]

openacs4=# select mp3_playlist__delete( 9046 );

17:14:22 [ola]

NOTICE: Deleting playlist...

17:14:22 [ola]

mp3_playlist__delete

17:14:22 [ola]

----------------------

17:14:22 [ola]

0

17:14:22 [chump]

Label NOTICE not found.

17:14:22 [ola]

(1 row)

17:14:39 [vinod]

ola: i think i got it (maybe)

17:14:48 [ola]

COOL.

17:15:12 [vinod]

ola: change your for loops to 'PERFORM mp3_playlist__delete...

17:15:32 [ola]

ok. hang on...

17:18:37 [Spork]

So...anyone up for telling me if doing tcl for aolserver is just like regular tcl?

17:18:47 [markd2]

pretty much

17:18:51 [Spork]

ok

17:18:53 [markd2]

some commands you can't really use, like 'cd'

17:18:57 [Spork]

ah

17:19:10 [markd2]

and there may be namespace issues.

17:19:16 [markd2]

I'm not hip on the latest details

17:19:38 [Spork]

I keep hearing that word "namespace" but don't know what it is

17:19:39 [ola]

vinod: the same..ERROR: parser: parse error at or near "mp3_playlist__delete"

17:21:18 [ola]

I hope I don't have to "watch" the drop script or something...

17:21:29 [markd2]

it's the final fronteir

17:21:35 [markd2]

i's like java packages

17:27:04 [ola]

vinod: I'm deleting from acs_permissions,acs_privilege_hierarchy,acs_privilege_hierarchy and acs_privileges just before the call to inline_0(). I hope that doesn't mess things up.

17:28:59 [vinod]

ola: no, that shouldn't matter. i'm just really surprised that the 'PERFORM' thing didn't work. can you post those FOR loops again?

17:33:22 [ola]

vinod: I'm sorry. that seens to be fixed now... Now I get this:

17:33:23 [ola]

psql:mp3-jukebox-drop.sql:79: ERROR: acs_objects_object_type_fk referential integrity violation - key in acs_object_types still referenced from acs_objects

17:33:24 [ola]

psql:mp3-jukebox-drop.sql:80: ERROR: acs_objects_object_type_fk referential integrity violation - key in acs_object_types still referenced from acs_objects

17:34:06 [ola]

vinod: (the PERFORM helped:-))

17:34:32 [vinod]

ola: phew! thought i was going crazy for a sec :-)

17:34:44 [talli]

talli has joined #openacs

17:34:45 [ola]

heh, thanks!

17:34:55 [ola]

hi talli.

17:35:18 [pat]

pat has joined #openacs

17:35:36 [vinod]

ola: so, are there any rows left in mp3_mp3s or mp3_playlists?

17:35:41 [markd2]

another find PERFORMance by Vinod

17:35:46 [ola]

lemme check.

17:35:59 [ola]

markd2: hehe

17:36:19 [ola]

so true.

17:36:19 [vinod]

markd2: when in doubt, just start adding keywords, that's my motto

17:36:28 [markd2]

heh

17:37:13 [Spork]

hmmmmmm

17:37:38 [ola]

vinod: well, the tables are dropped

17:38:03 [ola]

I can comment out that

17:38:35 [Spork]

ok

17:38:39 [Spork]

this sux

17:38:56 [vinod]

ola: the main issue is figuring out which rows in acs_objects are still of object type 'mp3...'

17:39:25 [ola]

vinod: ok.

17:41:24 [ola]

hmm.. way too many rows of those types in acs_objects...

17:44:12 [ola]

aha!

17:44:21 [Spork]

lol

17:44:28 [vinod]

i like the sound of that!

17:44:30 [ola]

the error seens to be because of legacy cruft..

17:44:35 [ola]

:-)

17:46:36 [Spork]

ok why wouldn't my module load?

17:46:39 [ola]

woohoo!!

17:47:02 [ola]

thanks vinod! great job..

17:47:39 [Spork]

ok, I figured it out I think

17:48:20 [ola]

* ola is going to call Vinod, Mr PERFORM from now on

17:48:46 [markd2]

with a name like that, he could have a promising career in "film"

17:48:47 [vinod]

haha

17:49:22 [vinod]

yeah, i'm sure that name must be taken

17:49:40 [vinod]

didn't talli have a career in "film"?

17:50:07 [ola]

haha

17:52:00 [Spork]

damn it

17:52:09 [Spork]

it's still not expanding my variables

17:53:29 [talli]

talli wishes he had a career in film, and he is working very hard at developing a portfolio, but he has been incredibly frustrated due to roadblocks set up by his mischevious and mysterious nemesis code named "vinod"

17:53:59 [vinod]

* vinod laughs maniacally

17:54:40 [Spork]

set fd [ns_snmp create 167.206.253.186 -community tsgInterface -timeout 5 -retries 3]

17:54:50 [Spork]

anyone see anything syntatically wrong with that

17:55:06 [ola]

no

17:55:50 [ola]

is it your own AOLserver module?

17:56:37 [Spork]

no

17:56:50 [Spork]

I'm trying to verify it's isntalled properly

17:58:07 [ola]

i don't recognize the command ns_snmp...

17:58:25 [Spork]

it's from nssnmp.so an AOLServer snmp module

17:58:39 [yanni]

yanni has quit

17:59:04 [Spork]

I can't even get this to work:

17:59:10 [Spork]

puts "<html>hello</html>"

18:00:08 [Spork]

ah

18:00:10 [Spork]

it's wrong

18:00:11 [Spork]

lol

18:00:55 [ola]

use: ns_return 200 text/html instead.

18:01:14 [Spork]

ok

18:01:17 [Spork]

this is what I have:

18:01:22 [markd2]

oh yea, puts is another one you can't use

18:01:24 [Spork]

set hello "<html>hello</html>"

18:01:24 [Spork]

set $hello

18:01:41 [Spork]

Makes sense to me...should print hello to the webpage

18:01:45 [markd2]

uh, no

18:01:50 [markd2]

all set does is return the value

18:01:54 [Spork]

instead it's thinking <html>... is a variable

18:01:56 [markd2]

so just 'set $hello' is a null op

18:02:11 [markd2]

accumualte your stuff into a string, and do ns_return ...

18:02:14 [ola]

no. set $hello doesn't return to the connection

18:02:25 [markd2]

right. aolserver doesn't work like that

18:02:27 [Spork]

but but but...in real tcl it's set a var and print a var

18:02:38 [markd2]

not really

18:02:42 [markd2]

in *tclsh* it does

18:02:43 [Spork]

yeah

18:02:47 [Spork]

that's what I Meant

18:02:56 [markd2]

but embedded tcl, there's not really a standard out you can use like that

18:03:21 [Spork]

d'oh

18:03:26 [Spork]

ok

18:03:30 [Spork]

so ns_return prints stuph

18:03:37 [Spork]

how do I get stuph?

18:03:39 [markd2]

it returns a bolus of data to the browser

18:03:55 [markd2]

set stuph "<blink>Give MarkD cookies</blink>"

18:03:58 [ola]

spork: aren't you using the templating system?

18:04:00 [markd2]

ns_return 200 text/html $stuph

18:04:03 [Spork]

not yet

18:04:05 [pat]

pat has quit

18:04:07 [ola]

aha

18:04:26 [Spork]

making a baby test page for debugging the rewrite of the tcl script into a browser for ns_snmp

18:04:42 [Spork]

* Spork gives Mark a cookie

18:04:50 [markd2]

you can also use ns_log - that'll send text to the your server log

18:05:17 [Spork]

shweet

18:05:27 [ola]

use "ns_return 200 text/html $stuph" or ReturnHeaders followed by ns_write $sporrrrrrk

18:05:37 [vinod]

make sure you use the blink tag (and quote your inspiration as markd at the top of every page)

18:05:44 [ola]

haha

18:06:08 [markd2]

thanks Mr. PERFORM

18:06:19 [Spork]

indeed

18:08:14 [vinod]

markd2: no problem. btw what happend to all the java applets and animated gifs and scrolling text on your website?

18:09:15 [Spork]

ok

18:09:20 [Spork]

here's another problem I'm clueless about

18:09:22 [markd2]

heh

18:09:36 [Spork]

I have a file that contains some tcl stuph

18:09:43 [Spork]

I have to somehow source it

18:09:50 [markd2]

use 'source'

18:09:51 [Spork]

btw, it's in a file called nsmib-procs.tcl

18:09:59 [markd2]

source /path/to/nsmib-procs.tcl

18:10:00 [Spork]

Sounds like it's some sort of a procedure?

18:10:03 [Spork]

k

18:10:06 [Spork]

* Spork tries

18:12:05 [Spork]

nope

18:12:10 [Spork]

very odd

18:12:47 [markd2]

what's in nsmib-procs.tcl?

18:13:20 [Spork]

things like this: ns_mib set 1.3.6.1.2.1.1.5 SNMPv2-MIB sysName {OCTET STRING}

18:13:35 [Spork]

they load OID values into the hash table

18:13:58 [markd2]

are the procs, or just free-standing code?

18:14:11 [Spork]

as far as I understand it, free-standing code

18:14:12 [markd2]

er, are they procs

18:14:17 [markd2]

open the file and take a peek

18:14:21 [Spork]

i did

18:14:27 [markd2]

so no procs in there?

18:14:29 [Spork]

it's just ns_set mib....over and over again

18:15:19 [markd2]

it shoulds work - I've sourced files before

18:15:50 [Spork]

ns_mib set OID module label syntax enum(N) ...

18:15:51 [Spork]

create new MIB node with optional enum values for Integer

18:16:11 [Spork]

that's what ns_mib does

18:16:23 [markd2]

how are you verifying that it didn't work?

18:16:46 [Spork]

Request Error

18:16:46 [Spork]

invalid OID get

18:16:46 [Spork]

while executing

18:16:46 [Spork]

"ns_snmp get $fd get 1.3.6.1.2.1.2.2.1.6"

18:16:46 [Spork]

invoked from within

18:16:46 [Spork]

"set sysName [ns_snmp get $fd get 1.3.6.1.2.1.2.2.1.6]"

18:16:46 [Spork]

("uplevel" body line 6)

18:17:01 [Spork]

invoked from within

18:17:21 [markd2]

hrm

18:17:23 [markd2]

dunno

18:17:27 [Spork]

well

18:17:38 [Spork]

the $fd should be replaced with SnmpX

18:17:42 [markd2]

sounds like a job for THE PERFORMER.. er.. the guy who did ns_snmp

18:17:51 [Spork]

so my guess it's not expanding the variables again

18:18:15 [markd2]

put some ns_logs into that included file and see what it has in there

18:18:15 [Spork]

set sysName [ns_snmp get $fd get 1.3.6.1.2.1.2.2.1.6]

18:25:26 [Spork]

how come it's not expanding $fd to the appropriate session name?

18:26:01 [markd2]

it probably is

18:26:28 [markd2]

tcl does variable expansion inside of square brackets

18:26:51 [markd2]

so unless there's context not included in the code pasted, by the rules of the langauge it has to be

18:27:05 [Spork]

odd

18:27:16 [Spork]

ns_mib set 1.3.6.1.2.1.1.5 SNMPv2-MIB sysName {OCTET STRING}

18:27:16 [Spork]

18:27:16 [Spork]

set fd [ns_snmp create 167.206.253.186 -community tsgInterface -timeout 5 -retries 3]

18:27:16 [Spork]

18:27:16 [Spork]

set sysName [ns_snmp get $fd get sysName]

18:27:17 [Spork]

18:27:19 [Spork]

ns_return 200 text/html $sysName

18:27:21 [Spork]

my whole code

18:27:23 [rbm]

mooo

18:27:25 [Spork]

noo

18:27:27 [Spork]

ack

18:27:28 [Spork]

good

18:27:30 [Spork]

ack!!!

18:27:35 [rbm]

syn!!!

18:27:35 [Spork]

¿oom

18:27:42 [Spork]

syn!

18:28:13 [rbm]

what's up?

18:28:20 [rbm]

* rbm is only here for < 1 hr

18:29:31 [vinod]

Spork: just after the 'set fd' call, try doing : ns_log Notice "fd=$fd"

18:29:45 [Spork]

ok

18:29:49 [vinod]

then look in the error log to see what fd is getting set to

18:29:51 [markd2]

markd2 has quit

18:29:56 [Spork]

here's the sample code from the person who wrote the code:

18:29:58 [Spork]

set val [ns_snmp get $fd get 1.3.6.1.2.1.2.2.1.6]

18:32:03 [Spork]

ns_log Notice "fd=$fd"

18:32:13 [Spork]

that isn't right is it...it's not setting anything in the error file

18:33:20 [vinod]

that looks right. once run, there should now be a line in the server-error.log

18:34:09 [Spork]

ok

18:34:11 [Spork]

that does work

18:34:13 [Spork]

fd is fine

18:35:14 [Spork]

ok then

18:38:22 [ola]

yippie! fd is fine.

18:38:55 [vinod]

vinod has left #openacs

18:43:25 [Spork]

yeah

18:43:30 [Spork]

and I can actually run it now

18:43:33 [Spork]

but it returns nothing

18:54:45 [davb]

hmmm

18:54:51 [Spork]

yeah

18:54:56 [Spork]

I'm not sure who to believe

18:55:03 [Spork]

the README says there should be a second get

18:55:04 [davb]

is fd getting set?

18:55:08 [Spork]

yes

18:55:17 [Spork]

snmp16

18:55:19 [Spork]

..etc

18:55:22 [davb]

ok good.

18:55:42 [Spork]

here's the thing:

18:55:56 [Spork]

set val [ns_snmp get $fd get 1.3.6.1.2.1.2.2.1.6]

18:56:17 [davb]

yeah I saw that, seems kinda unecessary. take it out and see if it works.

18:56:21 [Spork]

if I add that into my script: set sysName [ns_snmp get $fd 1.3.6.1.2.1.1.5] it won't get interpreted

18:56:33 [davb]

what error do you get?

18:56:55 [Spork]

invalid OID get

18:56:55 [Spork]

while executing

18:56:55 [Spork]

"ns_snmp get $fd get 1.3.6.1.2.1.1.5"

18:56:55 [Spork]

invoked from within

18:56:59 [davb]

sounds like an issue with ns_snmp, not your tcl.

18:57:06 [Spork]

i emailed him

18:57:10 [davb]

OK. so looks like you need it.

18:57:19 [Spork]

no

18:57:21 [Spork]

you don't

18:57:31 [Spork]

it's saying it doesn't know what OID=get is

18:57:31 [davb]

Oh, I see.

18:57:46 [Spork]

if I take it out OID=1.2....etc

18:57:48 [Spork]

which is what I want

18:57:54 [davb]

And that returns nothing.

18:58:00 [Spork]

right

18:58:24 [markd2]

markd2 has joined #openacs

18:58:26 [Spork]

oooh if he was here, I'd spork him real good!

18:58:38 [Spork]

* Spork gives Mark a cookie

18:58:51 [markd2]

cookies!

18:59:31 [Spork]

:)

18:59:50 [Spork]

* Spork looks at the source code

19:07:49 [Spork]

ugh!

19:08:10 [davb]

no comments?

19:08:43 [Spork]

no, there are

19:08:47 [Spork]

but they're not very good

19:08:56 [Spork]

I mean, they're good if you're a C genius

19:08:58 [Spork]

which i'm not

19:11:22 [davb]

That tricky part is knowing where it is failing. The AOLserver module could be fine, but the library it is using might be broken,

19:11:47 [Spork]

I think it is broken

19:12:41 [Spork]

i don't remember what -> does in c

19:12:46 [Spork]

something to do with pointer math

19:14:21 [markd2]

fundamentally it takes the address of a location in memory + an offset to that

19:14:32 [markd2]

it's like object.field in java

19:15:12 [Spork]

heh

19:15:24 [Spork]

odd

19:15:32 [Spork]

I think he does want a get in there

19:20:43 [ola]

bye bye, ruby...Monday.

19:20:47 [ola]

ola has quit

19:24:09 [Spork]

I know there's an easy way to go to the end of a buffer in emacs

19:24:12 [Spork]

I just can't remember it

19:24:17 [markd2]

M->

19:25:05 [Spork]

Symbol's function definition is void: find-tag

19:25:33 [Spork]

even emacs hates me

19:29:05 [Spork]

ok

19:29:07 [Spork]

he replied

19:35:44 [markd2]

no tcl mode, and your M-> keybinding is bad. sounds like your emacs setup is dorked

19:36:43 [Spork]

blame my boss for not installing it globally

19:42:38 [markd2]

* markd2 blames the Sporkboss

19:43:25 [Spork]

:P

19:51:40 [Spork]

what does this look like to you TCL wise:

19:51:42 [Spork]

{1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0 {OCTET STRING} {Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software IOS (tm) 7200

19:51:42 [Spork]

Software (UBR7200-IK1S-M), Version 12.1(7)EC, EARLY DEPLOYMENT RELEASE SOFTWARE

19:51:42 [Spork]

(fc1) TAC Support: http://www.cisco.com/tac Copyright (c) 1986-2001 by cisco Systems, Inc. Compiled

19:51:42 [Spork]

Tue 12-Jun-}}

19:52:10 [markd2]

looks like nested lists

19:52:37 [Spork]

how do I get the actual info

19:54:41 [markd2]

?

19:54:57 [Spork]

I don't want the 1.3.6.1...etc

19:54:59 [markd2]

lindex $stuff 0 should give 1.3..1.2.1.1.0. lindex $stuff 1 should give you { OCTET STRING }

19:55:09 [Spork]

and the {OCTET STRING} bit

19:55:24 [Spork]

what about the other one, the actual text?

19:55:27 [markd2]

lindex $stuff 2 gives you Cisco INternetwork ... Tue 12-Jun-

19:55:31 [Spork]

oh ok

19:55:33 [Spork]

* Spork tries

19:58:21 [Spork]

what's wrong with this way:

19:58:24 [Spork]

set sysName [lindex [ns_snmp get $fd 1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0] 2]

19:59:20 [markd2]

resuming ns_snmp get returns what you pasted in above, it should work

20:00:02 [Spork]

nope

20:00:07 [Spork]

it goes blank again

20:00:49 [davb]

2?

20:00:55 [Spork]

2

20:00:57 [davb]

ok nevermind

20:01:13 [Spork]

this: set sysName [ns_snmp get $fd 1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0]

20:01:14 [Spork]

works

20:01:17 [Spork]

then I do this:

20:01:27 [Spork]

and it does not

20:01:41 [Spork]

and yes, I uncomment it

20:03:13 [Spork]

his way:

20:03:13 [markd2]

the curly braces around everything may be confusing it

20:03:18 [Spork]

Each SNMP OID varbind is a Tcl list with 3 items:

20:03:18 [Spork]

1. OID

20:03:18 [Spork]

2. Type

20:03:18 [Spork]

3. Value

20:03:18 [Spork]

So, just use [lindex $var 2] to get value.

20:03:23 [markd2]

leading it to be a list of one item that's a list of a bunch of options

20:03:35 [markd2]

try [lindex [lindex $var 0] 2]

20:03:38 [markd2]

and see if that works

20:03:46 [Spork]

i think it will

20:04:15 [Spork]

=)

20:04:18 [Spork]

You're too smart for this

20:05:00 [Spork]

* Spork gives Mark an oracle shaped cookie

20:05:42 [markd2]

woo hoo!

20:05:47 [markd2]

Cookies, Enterprise Edition

20:06:06 [Spork]

lol

20:35:11 [Spork]

hmmm

20:35:16 [Spork]

if I was here since 10:10

20:35:19 [Spork]

I can leave at....

20:36:35 [davb]

bye

20:36:38 [davb]

davb has quit

20:58:57 [Spork]

arg!

21:09:30 [markd2]

markd2 has quit

21:11:11 [lilo]

[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back up in a moment, after some splits. Please bear with us.

21:12:09 [talli]

talli has quit

21:12:09 [Spork]

Spork has quit

21:12:09 [rbm]

rbm has quit

21:12:12 [ChanServ]

ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/

21:12:12 [ChanServ]

This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog

21:12:37 [Spork]

Spork has joined #openacs

21:12:37 [rbm]

rbm has joined #openacs

21:12:37 [talli]

talli has joined #openacs

21:13:59 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has quit

21:14:42 [AaronSw]

AaronSw has joined #openacs

21:14:56 [AaronSw]

* AaronSw returns

21:18:52 [rbm]

moo

21:19:12 [Spork]

holy chit!

21:19:18 [Spork]

my boss volunteered to do something for me

21:19:23 [Spork]

* Spork falls under his desk

21:36:05 [hazmat]

hazmat has quit

21:42:29 [rbm]

* rbm borrows $1 from fozz to buy a Coke

21:42:39 [rbm]

wrong window :)

21:42:57 [Spork]

lol

21:44:06 [talli]

hey rbm, what's the best location to find good PG info?

21:44:11 [talli]

the best place for docs and so on

21:44:21 [rbm]

postgresql.org/idocs/ and techdocs.postgresql.org

21:44:27 [talli]

thanks

21:44:36 [rbm]

and don't forget my own brasileiro.net/postgres/

21:44:48 [talli]

thanks :)

21:45:03 [Spork]

ok

21:45:07 [rbm]

http://www.brasileiro.net/postgres/

21:45:07 [chump]

C: http://www.brasileiro.net/postgres/ from rbm

21:45:23 [rbm]

C:|PostgreSQL Cookbook and other resources. Go add your own recipe!

21:45:24 [chump]

titled item C

21:45:33 [Spork]

Can someone give me the scoop on how to do something?

21:45:44 [Spork]

no need for details just an overview

21:45:47 [rbm]

depends on what this something is...

21:46:22 [Spork]

well, I kinda left the UI for my package/site alone to pursue the SNMP stuff

21:46:35 [Spork]

The problem I'm foreseeing is with the user hierarchy

21:47:26 [Spork]

like how would I go about making sure a specific manager can only update the info of people who work for him

21:47:41 [rbm]

Hmmm. I know nothing about SNMP

21:47:48 [Spork]

don't worry about SNMP

21:47:50 [Spork]

That I can do

21:48:11 [Spork]

I'm thinking how to prevent Manager A from updating Manager B's employees using SQL/OACS

21:48:23 [rbm]

Permissions system. Is that ACS 4?

21:48:30 [Spork]

yeah ACS 4

21:48:41 [Spork]

but I don't want to define a billion relations for every manager

21:48:45 [rbm]

Permissions system them.

21:48:47 [Spork]

there has to be an easier way

21:48:48 [rbm]

You don't have to.

21:48:59 [Spork]

The way I tried setting it up is like this:

21:49:08 [Spork]

there's a table emp_hierarchy

21:49:26 [Spork]

that has employer | employee as two columns

21:49:34 [Spork]

I was hoping I can use that to check

21:49:42 [rbm]

Sure you can

21:50:38 [Spork]

optimally, I would like to hack the simple-search by keyword to only show entities that are employed by the searcher

21:51:17 [rbm]

why? Wouldn't it be easier to just create a proc to abstract that for you?

21:51:53 [Spork]

ummm...i suppose so

21:51:55 [talli]

yo, rbm, what's up with interbase and SAPdb? are they OSS yet?

21:52:08 [rbm]

Yes.

21:52:25 [talli]

are they worth anything yet? how do they compare to PG?

21:52:34 [rbm]

Interbase had birth pains with its open sourceness. I'm not up to speed with SAPdb, but AFAIK, it's OSS already

21:52:47 [talli]

under what license?

21:53:01 [rbm]

We had a thread comparing Interbase to PG a while ago when we were thinking of porting ACS 4 to Interbase as well.

21:53:13 [rbm]

Don't remember. GPL IIRC

21:53:20 [AaronSw]

aaah! it's talli

21:53:34 [rbm]

uuuuh! It's aaron

21:53:58 [Spork]

ahhh it's me going home!

21:54:11 [talli]

aaron, talk some more and i'll tell the truant office about your "unschooling" plans

21:54:26 [AaronSw]

heheh

21:54:38 [Spork]

bye guys

21:54:40 [Spork]

see ya on Wed

21:55:11 [talli]

later

21:55:19 [talli]

SAPdb is GPL. cool

21:55:50 [talli]

how similar is it to PG, any idea?

21:56:06 [rbm]

no

21:57:06 [AaronSw]

rbm, why aren't you in #postgresql?

21:57:44 [rbm]

I should be there...

21:58:26 [talli]

yeah! get the hell out of here!

21:59:50 [rbm]

Wha??

22:00:48 [talli]

oh, sorry. i though aaron was talking about vinod.

22:00:55 [AaronSw]

lol

22:01:46 [rbm]

Hmmm. You can't change the /topic on #postgresql and they left that stupid "greatbridge.org is dead" there

22:01:47 [hazmat]

hazmat has joined #openacs

22:02:01 [rbm]

That's gotta be docwolf

22:02:30 [AaronSw]

Hmm, I don't see that... I just see "Welcome to #PostgreSQL : PostgreSQL Discussion | www.postgresql.org | www.greatbridge.org"

22:04:34 [rbm]

* rbm now has three IRC windows open in a single scree

22:04:38 [rbm]

s/$/n/

22:05:50 [rbm]

I better get some work done.

22:09:47 [rbm]

AaronSw: Ah, you get me in there, then you leave?!?!?

22:09:57 [AaronSw]

Yes.

22:10:19 [rbm]

keeewwll!

22:13:38 [rbm]

Open source. Open ideas. Seriously butt-kicking software.

22:14:39 [talli]

rbm, do you know anything about sybase?

22:14:56 [rbm]

I messed with it 2 years ago for a couple months. But that's it.

22:15:18 [rbm]

One thing I know is that M$ stole it then screwed it up :)

22:15:19 [talli]

what would it take to port openacs4 to work with sybase?

22:15:30 [talli]

what?

22:15:41 [rbm]

talli: If it has stored procedures (and I think it does) then it should be doable.

22:15:55 [talli]

it does have stored procedures

22:16:04 [talli]

but doable and reasonable are two different things

22:16:20 [talli]

reasonable usually involves money

22:16:31 [talli]

how reasonable is it to port OACS to another DB?

22:16:40 [rbm]

MS SQL Server is based on Sybase. M$ was "working together" with Sybase to improve the product both on Unix and NT. Turns out that M$ was only working on the NT port. When it got everything it wanted from Sybase, it borke off and stole it.

22:17:07 [rbm]

talli: Not very unless we finish the 2 initial ports

22:17:14 [rbm]

s/unless/until/

22:18:46 [talli]

i know, it would have to wait until then

22:18:56 [talli]

but musea's revenue might not :)

22:19:03 [talli]

so we're lookingto get whatever we can

22:19:18 [rbm]

talli: If someone's paying you to do it, go for it. You can ask for lots of moneys!

22:19:25 [talli]

that's the idea

22:19:40 [talli]

i've always been open to porting OACS to MS

22:19:50 [talli]

of course, it might cost 1 million dollars, but we would do it

22:19:53 [talli]

:)

22:20:00 [AaronSw]

Nah, probably 2 million.

22:20:02 [AaronSw]

:-)

22:20:09 [AaronSw]

You can give the extra million to me.

22:20:13 [rbm]

MS SQL is very non-standards compliant

22:20:17 [talli]

and a couple of goats to sacrifice, too

22:20:42 [talli]

aaronsw: i'll give you a syllabus and a texbook, that's what i'll give you

22:21:03 [AaronSw]

Pfft!

22:21:42 [talli]

rbm: when will you learn?

22:22:00 [rbm]

talli: what?

22:22:04 [talli]

MS is always standards compliant - who do you think foces the standards???

22:22:23 [rbm]

heh. s/forces/dumbs down/

22:23:54 [talli]

rbm: have you checked out openacs.museatech.net?

22:24:00 [talli]

what do you think?

22:24:03 [talli]

what's the word?

22:24:22 [rbm]

talli: Yes. I like it. There's one thing I don't like though.

22:24:23 [talli]

and what does your wife think about you spending all your time in this IRC channel?

22:24:31 [rbm]

It looks horrible in < 1024x768

22:24:37 [talli]

really?

22:24:38 [talli]

weird.

22:24:45 [talli]

post that in the feedback forum

22:24:45 [rbm]

And most of the page is in a big huge table

22:26:06 [talli]

ah, the recent bboards posts does look horrible in 1024x768

22:26:13 [talli]

that's a bug that needs to be fixed

22:26:52 [talli]

can you post something in the feedback forum?

22:26:58 [rbm]

talli: yeah, in a but

22:27:02 [rbm]

s/but/bit/

22:27:34 [talli]

i would prefer it to be in a butt, but whatever...

22:28:32 [rbm]

heh

22:28:48 [talli]

you never answered my question though ...

22:29:02 [talli]

with all the time you spend with software, when do you have time for your wife???

22:29:03 [rbm]

I didn't? Which question?

22:29:22 [rbm]

talli: Oh, missed that

22:30:21 [rbm]

Heheh. She doesn't see the IRC window often. I have a shotcut on wmaker (Ctrl+right/left arrow) to quickly switch desktops, so when I hear she coming in to the office, I switch desktops to my Emacs desktop full of code

22:30:26 [rbm]

"I'm working honey"

22:30:36 [rbm]

And I ususally am

22:31:21 [talli]

ha!

22:31:22 [rbm]

She's okay with IRC though. I do find time for her at night. And on weekends

22:31:27 [talli]

that's evil.

22:31:54 [talli]

well, i guess being on the IRC channel is better than trading kiddie porn, but not that much better.

22:32:01 [rbm]

She's a wonderful wife. I had to teach her about interrupting me when I'm concentrated in a certain problem though :)

22:33:10 [talli]

there are quite a few jokes i can make out of that last line - but i will prevent myself from going there. :)

22:33:37 [rbm]

Uh oh. I hope my sometimes-bad English didn't put me in trouble there

22:34:27 [talli]

no, not at all. but my dirty mind is always interpreting even the most innocent of sentences in the most salacious way possible.

22:36:32 [talli]

rbm: how would i explain the database indendence in OACS4?

22:36:39 [talli]

is it really DB independent?

22:36:47 [rbm]

Yes.

22:36:50 [rbm]

XML

22:37:05 [rbm]

That makes OACS buzzword-compliant :)

22:38:20 [talli]

ha!

22:38:32 [talli]

i found the post you made yesterday

22:38:37 [talli]

it's perfect for what i'm looking for. thanks

22:38:56 [talli]

wait - ben posted it

22:38:59 [talli]

sorry :)

22:39:28 [rbm]

Yeah, I'm not nearly as good as Ben :)

22:40:50 [talli]

you're not bad though :)

22:40:55 [talli]

anyway, gotta run

22:40:58 [talli]

talk to you guys tomorrow

22:41:02 [talli]

talli has quit

22:45:29 [hazmat]

except its not xml

22:47:22 [rbm]

everything is relative" -

22:47:29 [rbm]

"everything is relative" --Albert Einstein

23:15:15 [davb]

davb has joined #OpenACS

23:29:14 [rbm]

http://dotlrn.mit.edu/

23:29:14 [chump]

D: http://dotlrn.mit.edu/ from rbm

23:29:29 [rbm]

D:| .LRN homepage

23:29:29 [chump]

titled item D