00:54:24 rzolf has joined #openacs 01:02:43 rzolf has quit 01:16:06 docwolf has joined #openacs 01:29:55 hi all. 02:20:20 hi docwolf 02:21:49 docwolf has quit 02:34:48 bye docwolkf 03:28:14 Spork has joined #openacs 03:28:24 mmmm 03:28:26 beer 03:33:20 Hmmm. Juice 03:36:36 pshhh 03:36:37 juice 03:36:41 I prefer hard liquior 03:39:04 :) 03:50:42 strainmaker2 has quit 03:53:52 vinod has joined #openacs 03:54:10 VINOD!! 03:54:15 vinod 03:54:19 rbm! 03:54:24 * Spork pokes vinod with an rbm 03:54:27 who's Spork? 03:54:32 Who you think 03:54:40 ahh Psyche! 03:54:41 * Spork pokes vinod with a psychephylax 03:54:46 hey vinod 03:54:47 haha! 03:54:50 hey dave! 03:54:59 it's dave! 03:55:02 it's Roberto! 03:55:06 Let's all get drunk and stupid 03:55:10 too late 03:55:14 * Spork starts handing out the spo...beers 03:55:19 * rbm doesn't need to get drunk to be stupid :) 03:55:24 rofl 03:55:29 I need a little boost on that 03:55:42 * rbm hands Spork a virtual beer 03:55:56 i don't need no stinken' virtual beer 03:56:46 * Spork drinks his 43.5% Imported Goldshlager with real gold flakes 03:57:10 43.5% 03:57:12 pshaw 03:57:43 :-) sorry, just trying to be macho 03:58:11 hey, don't make me go break out 151 Rum 03:58:18 lol 03:58:25 43.5%?!?! Man, that can power a car. 03:58:33 I've tried 200 proof.... 03:58:42 pure ethanol...tastes like fire 03:58:47 that's called ethanol 03:58:51 cH3OH 03:58:55 * rbm reminds those in the channel that Alcohol is an automobile fuel 03:58:56 yep 03:59:13 I can get pure ethanol :) 03:59:15 Alcohol is very common in Brazil 03:59:21 (as fuel) 03:59:27 i won't drink fuel 03:59:31 I'll drink Ethanol though 03:59:34 in moderation of course 03:59:39 I don't want to go blind 03:59:42 * rbm goes out to rent a movie 03:59:47 what moive? 03:59:51 Dunno yet. 03:59:53 methanol makes you blind, not ethanol 03:59:55 suggestions? 04:00:03 what kind of a movie you want 04:00:12 i can get methanol too 04:00:16 :-) 04:00:27 Ah, I dunno. Action I guess. 04:00:31 i can get monomers too 04:00:34 action? 04:00:37 I better head out before the rental place closes. 04:00:39 Later. 04:00:42 Ever seen "The Replacement Killers"? 04:00:43 unmoo for now 04:00:49 hmm, no. Will look for it. 04:00:51 ok 04:00:56 unmoo to you too 04:01:37 hey Spork, why are you Spork now? 04:02:25 because I'm pointy and sharp like a fork but I work out like a spoon and try to grab as much info as I possibly can 04:02:27 :)( 04:03:25 wow, that's pretty deep 04:03:37 werd up! 04:04:04 * Spork begins stabbing the ground 04:05:53 leave the ground alone! 04:05:54 Sporks are meant for things like mexican festadas and spam 04:06:24 spam? 04:06:25 No thanks 04:06:31 I will not participate in such things! 04:06:34 spam = sux 04:06:48 that's almost unamerican :-) 04:07:14 no i think its american to dislike spam... its not even really food. 04:07:19 ;) 04:07:28 haha 04:08:11 yeah 04:08:14 you can die from spam 04:08:36 i'm gonna wind up drinking this whole goldie bottle 04:08:47 no its more like a twinkie I think... 04:09:01 Silly customer, you cannot hurt a twinkie!!!!!!! 04:09:09 Spork: hey, pour me a drink 04:09:15 ok 04:09:27 mmmm 04:09:29 * Spork pours vinod a nice triple shot of Goldshlager 04:09:41 don't puke man :) 04:09:54 anyone have a webcam? 04:09:57 heh, you don't know who you're talkin to 04:10:07 i grew up in the land of beer - Wisconsin! 04:10:08 drinking contest? 04:10:11 pshhhh 04:10:17 that's nothing 04:10:23 I grew up in Russia, the land of vodka 04:10:40 When we were moving here (USA) my dad threw a going away party 04:10:41 you win :-) 04:10:49 to this day I remember the amount of alcohol 04:11:03 3 CASES of vodka and 1 case of wine 04:11:10 between about 30 people 04:11:33 damn! 04:11:37 yeah no chit 04:11:44 I was 12 then 04:11:50 if I was older I'd be drunk too 04:11:52 lol - ouch! 04:12:25 yeah no chit ;) 04:12:35 jabba_ has quit 04:14:12 * Spork goes to play CS 04:14:55 have fun! 04:15:05 * vinod goes to work on acs-messaging 04:16:10 heh 04:16:23 you're working at 12:15am on a sat morhing 04:16:24 d00d 04:16:26 go out 04:16:34 get wild and crazy! 04:16:34 i just got back 04:16:47 gotta play soccer tomorrow, so i couldn't stay out late 04:17:00 then gotta see patients tomorrow night 04:17:26 i've been wild and crazy - leave that to the kids now :-) 04:18:55 hehehe 04:19:51 trust me. college is the peak. it only gets harder after that (not necessarily worse, but certainly harder) :-) 04:21:44 harder? 04:21:51 you mean harder to get drunk due to lack of time? 04:22:29 yes, that's what I mean. i'll let you figure out the rest :-) 04:22:42 hate to rain on anyone's parade 04:22:51 heh 04:22:54 No problemo 04:23:04 My goal is not to get married until I am all partied out 04:23:35 good luck! 04:23:39 lol 04:23:43 Won't be hard to accomplish 04:24:02 what? getting partied out? or getting married? 04:27:45 neither 04:29:47 :) 04:33:29 oh boy 04:33:42 I am making my way throught this goldshlager bottle and it's making me hungry 04:37:26 hahahahhahahahaha 04:37:30 I'm so dunk i'ts not funny 04:44:11 detaches 05:01:41 vinod has left #openacs 05:42:33 rbm has quit 07:39:33 rbm has joined #openacs 12:11:36 strainmaker has joined #openacs 15:56:28 markd2 has joined #openacs 16:04:59 moo 16:09:10 howdee 16:11:49 how goes it mark? 16:11:52 hey 16:14:40 teacher! leave them kids alone! 16:15:11 it's going OK 16:16:06 * markd2 has to learn Oracle Replication quickly today to defuse a production time-bomb 16:17:14 heheh 16:17:39 not my favorite way of spending a saturday :-( 16:18:11 * rbm taps markd2 on the back and says "you can do it" 16:20:19 heh 16:20:34 * markd2 pulls his "the little train that said forget it" book off the shelf and re-reads it 16:25:56 markd2 has quit 16:36:04 markd2 has joined #openacs 16:46:54 docwolf has joined #openacs 16:47:30 yo doc 16:47:46 howdy 16:47:52 how's everything going :-( 16:48:11 hanging in there 16:48:21 excellent 16:48:22 actually doing Real Work today :-( 16:48:33 ugh 16:48:37 trying to prevent oracle replication from filling up a disk and taking a site down 16:49:57 yikes 16:51:27 hmm 16:51:31 looks like lars set up a poll 16:51:34 on the ex-aD group 16:51:55 i guess pinds.com got shitcanned 16:51:57 that would be me 16:52:09 ahh 16:52:18 but I was inspired by Lars 16:52:24 it is an interesting philosophical debate 16:52:35 to the layperson like myself 16:52:41 ACS 3 16:52:43 though a dumping ground 16:52:46 was easy to understand 16:52:50 yeah 16:52:51 and set up 16:52:59 i'm still confused by ACS 4 16:53:07 I like acs 4 16:53:26 it has enough structure that makes it easier to make code consistent across packages 16:53:39 but doesn't go to ridiculous extremes like acs/java 16:53:47 honestly 16:53:51 i never even looked at ACS java 16:53:55 it seemed like an alien world 16:54:12 with its own language and customs 16:54:13 luckily I was still only in the Psets when the project I was on got cancelled 16:54:16 that i just didn't want to get into 16:54:24 Ask CurtisG what he thinks :-) 16:54:29 heh 16:54:36 just make sure you have a good chunk of time to spare 16:57:24 that's part of the problem 16:57:41 unfortunately aD dropped development of acs4 before it got close to finished. 16:57:47 What does CurtisG thinks? 16:57:52 s/thinks/think/ 16:57:58 he's not a big fan of acs/java 16:58:01 What's the URL for the ex-ad group again? 16:58:14 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-ad 16:58:14 A: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-ad from markd2 16:58:18 I would be very interesting in hearing CurtiG's opinion :-) 16:58:27 a:|ex-arsdigita yahoo group 16:58:36 a:| ex-arsdigita yahoo group 16:58:45 a| ex-arsdigita yahoo group 16:58:48 * markd2 kicks chump 16:58:51 A:| ex-arsdigita yahoo group 16:58:51 titled item A 16:58:54 thanks 16:59:11 that's just for folks who have survived the aD Experience - not an open group 16:59:19 np. one of these days I'll learn Python and fix it up 16:59:56 philg 16:59:58 always insisted 17:00:02 Can I join the group to follow the discussions? 17:00:06 that "aD was platform agnostic", etc... 17:00:08 I doubt it 17:00:16 private dirty laundry :-) 17:00:25 "it was all about page flow + data model" 17:00:29 but i disagree with that 17:00:30 oh, okay then 17:00:40 it's a nice conceptual foundation 17:00:42 as the java project showed 17:00:52 it was more about 17:00:56 language 17:00:58 than he realized 17:01:02 * rbm tapes docwolf's "enter" key so he doesn't press it so often 17:01:14 quick & dirty vs. slow and difficult 17:01:21 it's a nervous tick, roberto :-) 17:01:26 heh 17:01:44 * rbm loads the #openacs virtual freud to handle docwolf's tick 17:01:47 and most web apps aren't nearly of the same order of complexity as 2 million line desktop apps 17:02:03 so you don't really *need* all those towers of abstraction 17:02:08 right. Hence the appeal of stuff like PHP. 17:02:12 markd2: Agreed. 17:02:26 "amihotornot" doesn't really need a grand conceptual framework 17:02:46 But ACS4 is a good balance IMHO. We just need to improve its documentation and have a couple "wizzards" kind of thing to make it easier f or the newcomer. 17:03:21 agreed, it needs to be easier. Increased "transparency", IMO, is also really important. 17:03:48 for example, with something like phpnuke, it's really easy to find & fix the code that generates a specific page 17:04:07 yeah, that's true. 17:04:14 in that respect, it's very much like the "old" ACS. 17:04:24 I find that PHP makes it hard to write anything but trivial apps. 17:04:43 "so if you've ever used C, Java, or Perl. PHP will be familiar because 17:04:43 it combines the worst of each language. But none of the powerful 17:04:43 parts. It looks a lot like cold fusion. 17:04:43 -- Rzolf 17:04:58 ROTFL 17:05:06 Love that quote. Precisely my feelings. 17:05:39 the interesting thing about php though is that it was evolved and constructed almost 100% for web/db usage 17:05:39 Rzolf is missing his calling as a Industry Pundit 17:05:51 Jon Katz whips up the slashdot crowd, but imagine what rzolf could do 17:05:59 heheh 17:06:13 brb 17:06:24 the other thing about php that probably makes it so abhorrent to the openacs crowd 17:06:29 I'm weird - I like *none* of the Standard Internet Tools that everyone seems to use 17:06:33 is the fact that it evolved around MySQL. 17:06:37 yeah 17:06:52 most folks in my LUG are "php is so cool! apache rules! MySQL is the best!! I love RedHat!" 17:07:12 ugh. It's all about the right tool for the job 17:07:20 php is great for fuckedauto.com but... 17:07:32 Weird. I am always trying new stuff. It's distracting, but you learn alot more. 17:07:38 I consider php/mysql/sendmail, etc, to the be microsofts of the linux world 17:08:04 the thing about php/mysql is that it takes like zero planning to build a site that works 17:08:22 so you can cobble together a pile of junk really fast. Just don't expect miracles when you get a million hits. 17:08:27 most folks don't realie that most of the time is spent in maintenance and fixing rather than building 17:08:30 it is the ultimate "novelty site" language. 17:08:31 I can do the same thing is ASP/Access. 17:08:43 not that I would want to.... 17:08:50 davb: exactly. but PHP is free, so it's even more ghetto. 17:08:57 Aha. 17:09:19 http://www.godwinsroom.com/html/index.php 17:09:19 B: http://www.godwinsroom.com/html/index.php from docwolf 17:09:38 total ghetto. It only cost me my time. And it made me laugh, so it was worth it. 17:09:40 godwinsroom never remembers my login, even if I tell it to set a persistent cookie 17:09:52 not that it's worth putting a lot of time into it :-) 17:09:57 really?? uh-oh. maybe it's php's great session handling. 17:10:21 if you ever want to use some fundamentally broken shit (that no one will admit is broken) try sessions in php. 17:10:32 the emperor has no cookies 17:10:34 I still want to get my Computer Science degree. I am planning on building my own program. Anyway what does everyone think of the courses that adUNI offered? THe subjects anyway. 17:10:36 rotfl 17:11:03 davb: are the courses still online? 17:11:44 I think so. The alumni took all the content and kept it up. 17:11:59 You can mail them an 80gig drive and they will dump all the lectures on it for you. 17:12:06 whoa 17:12:07 that's cool 17:12:12 yeah. 17:12:27 hey vinod posted a link 17:12:31 on godwinsroom 17:12:38 cool. 17:12:40 awesome 17:12:42 any good? 17:12:43 i guess i should check it more often :-) 17:12:48 haven't read it yet. heh. 17:12:57 why are flames so funny? 17:13:51 "gee man, if you're gonna get so worked up about something, at least get worked up about something *important*" 17:14:25 seeing flames unfold in person is even funnier though. 17:14:33 flames are not funny! they're important! and you look funny! and your momma.. uh.. something! 17:14:37 like, two grown people arguing about python vs. perl 17:14:57 heh 17:15:05 (yes, this would frequently happen @ aD cambridge..) 17:15:38 "shouldn't you be like... dating women or something instead of being here at 2am?" 17:15:51 is they're at 2am, that means they're working hard! 17:16:02 oh my 17:16:13 since everyone knows if you work reasonable hours, you're a lame-ass slacker that shouldn't even be in the Greenspun RDF. 17:16:20 rotfl 17:16:47 "Software engineering: that part of computer science which is too difficult for the computer scientist." 17:16:56 i hate to have to invoke godwin upon myself but... 17:17:04 it's almost like nazi germany 17:17:06 from that you are a hopeless newbie thread 17:17:17 where its starts as a feeling of "community" and wanting to "belong" to somethin g 17:17:27 then.. over time, the culture grows and gets perverted 17:17:36 and gets more and more extreme 17:17:47 until you end up with "if you're not around past midnight, you are no good" 17:18:13 Chunks was describing some corporate meetings during that time 17:18:29 Wow. Check out "The Soul of a New Machine" (forget who it's by) Its about exactly that. 17:18:37 "MarkD doesn't log enough hours. he's a loser" Chunks: "he gets all his work done, doesn't he?" "well, yes. but he's not logging enough hours!" 17:18:58 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316491977/ref=bxgy_sr_text_a/104-1437289-9757556 17:18:58 C: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316491977/ref=bxgy_sr_text_a/104-1437289-9757556 from docwolf 17:19:02 that's when I started logging all the time I spend on email. 17:19:08 right. 17:19:13 holy crap 17:19:27 the UN should have airlifted copies of this book into aD HQ 17:20:06 Heh. I can't believe it won a pullitzer though. The writing isn't that great. 17:20:40 I got it for 50 cents at a library book sale. 17:20:49 man oh man. 17:21:01 the importance of leadership really can't be underscored highly enough 17:21:30 the leader really does set the "culture" 17:21:30 Maybe I'll stay an independent consultant, poor, but happy. 17:21:42 I never really appreciated it as much in the past 17:22:02 but i'm starting to understand the dynamics of building a "cult". 17:22:14 (note... "cult" as the root of "culture") 17:22:30 ooooh 17:22:43 the amazing thing about the aD experience is that philip really was in it for the money, yet he convinced a group of bright people 17:22:59 that he was doing it for a deeper cause. 17:23:45 (if you saw the way he structured the corporation, you'd see how he gave the symbolic middle-finger to basically everyone else.) 17:24:14 he's the only one that actually made more than a salary off the company 17:25:02 that is true. And he made himself enough of a pain in the ass that the VCs paid him a large sum of money just to get rid of him 17:25:53 (which is another fascinating topic in and of itself --- why greylock continues to pump cash in, and on what terms) 17:26:34 That is interesting... 17:26:38 but from being in the VC biz, i know this much: existing shareholders got the high, hard one from greylock when they put more money in. 17:26:53 yep 17:27:05 I had 92,000 options vested. I doubt I'll exercise any of them 17:27:17 i'm guessing that even General Atlantic wrote off their entire investment 17:27:31 because i don't think they put in any more cash (i could be wrong.. i don't really know) 17:27:46 and if that's the case, then greylock diluted them to almost nothing with this latest round. 17:28:08 or, at least, that's what _i_ would do, being the heartless VC I am ;-) 17:28:21 it's like a big game of poker. 17:28:25 Aha. 17:28:39 one VC fund antes up, which forced the other to ante as well, or fold. 17:29:22 need to hop off. catch folks later 17:29:26 later 17:29:32 bye 17:29:44 markd2 has quit 17:38:53 the PHP session stuff is b0rken?? 17:39:08 it doesn't seem to always work properly 17:39:17 particularly with trying to end sessions 17:39:41 it's got a distinctly microsoftian/random error feeling about it 17:39:53 I extended the PHP session and kept control of logged in or out myself. 17:40:03 cool 17:40:09 the frustrating thing about it 17:40:23 is that sesssions are so fundamental to any web app. You'd think that they would make it bulletproof. 17:41:06 hey doc (or anyone), have you done credit card processing? 17:41:13 docwolf: indeed. 17:41:17 nope 17:41:30 docwolf: But you gotta remember that these are the folks whe think MySQL is the best RDBMS around. 17:41:35 s/whe/who/ 17:41:52 true :-) 17:42:03 I'm thinking of doing it with authorize.net 17:42:26 docwolf: what did you think of my reply to Monty "Full or Crap" Widenius on /. ? 17:42:27 how does this work,.. you send them some XML 17:42:39 rbm: your reply was hillarious 17:42:46 did he ever post a rebuttal? 17:42:56 Last time I checked, no. 17:43:16 I mist upset Monty very much. He has personally replied to 3 or 4 messages of mine in several lists/bboards 17:43:19 s/mist/must/ 17:43:28 haha 17:43:57 I stick the knife in his wounds by showing what MySQL really is. 17:45:01 someone made a good point, though, that for PG to gain much more widespread popularity, the windows server must be easier to install. 17:45:09 * rbm envisions a "60 Minutes" exposee on MySQL. "The Truth Behind It" 17:45:13 more people would then be likely to play around with it. 17:45:19 docwolf: that's true. 17:45:24 I'm actually working on that. 17:45:35 really! very cool. 17:46:01 i tried setting it up once with the cygnus tools, and it was just too painful. 17:46:09 in constrast, mysql takes like 2 minutes to install. 17:46:18