IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:54:24 [rzolf]
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01:02:43 [rzolf]
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01:16:06 [docwolf]
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01:29:55 [docwolf]
hi all.
02:20:20 [davb]
hi docwolf
02:21:49 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit
02:34:48 [rbm]
bye docwolkf
03:28:14 [Spork]
Spork has joined #openacs
03:28:24 [Spork]
mmmm
03:28:26 [Spork]
beer
03:33:20 [rbm]
Hmmm. Juice
03:36:36 [Spork]
pshhh
03:36:37 [Spork]
juice
03:36:41 [Spork]
I prefer hard liquior
03:39:04 [rbm]
:)
03:50:42 [strainmaker2]
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03:53:52 [vinod]
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03:54:10 [rbm]
VINOD!!
03:54:15 [Spork]
vinod
03:54:19 [vinod]
rbm!
03:54:24 [Spork]
* Spork pokes vinod with an rbm
03:54:27 [vinod]
who's Spork?
03:54:32 [Spork]
Who you think
03:54:40 [vinod]
ahh Psyche!
03:54:41 [Spork]
* Spork pokes vinod with a psychephylax
03:54:46 [davb]
hey vinod
03:54:47 [vinod]
haha!
03:54:50 [vinod]
hey dave!
03:54:59 [Spork]
it's dave!
03:55:02 [Spork]
it's Roberto!
03:55:06 [Spork]
Let's all get drunk and stupid
03:55:10 [vinod]
too late
03:55:14 [Spork]
* Spork starts handing out the spo...beers
03:55:19 [rbm]
* rbm doesn't need to get drunk to be stupid :)
03:55:24 [Spork]
rofl
03:55:29 [Spork]
I need a little boost on that
03:55:42 [rbm]
* rbm hands Spork a virtual beer
03:55:56 [Spork]
i don't need no stinken' virtual beer
03:56:46 [Spork]
* Spork drinks his 43.5% Imported Goldshlager with real gold flakes
03:57:10 [vinod]
43.5%
03:57:12 [vinod]
pshaw
03:57:43 [vinod]
:-) sorry, just trying to be macho
03:58:11 [Spork]
hey, don't make me go break out 151 Rum
03:58:18 [vinod]
lol
03:58:25 [rbm]
43.5%?!?! Man, that can power a car.
03:58:33 [Spork]
I've tried 200 proof....
03:58:42 [Spork]
pure ethanol...tastes like fire
03:58:47 [vinod]
that's called ethanol
03:58:51 [vinod]
cH3OH
03:58:55 [rbm]
* rbm reminds those in the channel that Alcohol is an automobile fuel
03:58:56 [Spork]
yep
03:59:13 [Spork]
I can get pure ethanol :)
03:59:15 [rbm]
Alcohol is very common in Brazil
03:59:21 [rbm]
(as fuel)
03:59:27 [Spork]
i won't drink fuel
03:59:31 [Spork]
I'll drink Ethanol though
03:59:34 [Spork]
in moderation of course
03:59:39 [Spork]
I don't want to go blind
03:59:42 [rbm]
* rbm goes out to rent a movie
03:59:47 [Spork]
what moive?
03:59:51 [rbm]
Dunno yet.
03:59:53 [vinod]
methanol makes you blind, not ethanol
03:59:55 [rbm]
suggestions?
04:00:03 [Spork]
what kind of a movie you want
04:00:12 [Spork]
i can get methanol too
04:00:16 [vinod]
:-)
04:00:27 [rbm]
Ah, I dunno. Action I guess.
04:00:31 [Spork]
i can get monomers too
04:00:34 [Spork]
action?
04:00:37 [rbm]
I better head out before the rental place closes.
04:00:39 [rbm]
Later.
04:00:42 [Spork]
Ever seen "The Replacement Killers"?
04:00:43 [rbm]
unmoo for now
04:00:49 [rbm]
hmm, no. Will look for it.
04:00:51 [Spork]
ok
04:00:56 [Spork]
unmoo to you too
04:01:37 [vinod]
hey Spork, why are you Spork now?
04:02:25 [Spork]
because I'm pointy and sharp like a fork but I work out like a spoon and try to grab as much info as I possibly can
04:02:27 [Spork]
:)(
04:03:25 [vinod]
wow, that's pretty deep
04:03:37 [Spork]
werd up!
04:04:04 [Spork]
* Spork begins stabbing the ground
04:05:53 [vinod]
leave the ground alone!
04:05:54 [vinod]
Sporks are meant for things like mexican festadas and spam
04:06:24 [Spork]
spam?
04:06:25 [Spork]
No thanks
04:06:31 [Spork]
I will not participate in such things!
04:06:34 [Spork]
spam = sux
04:06:48 [vinod]
that's almost unamerican :-)
04:07:14 [davb]
no i think its american to dislike spam... its not even really food.
04:07:19 [davb]
;)
04:07:28 [vinod]
haha
04:08:11 [Spork]
yeah
04:08:14 [Spork]
you can die from spam
04:08:36 [Spork]
i'm gonna wind up drinking this whole goldie bottle
04:08:47 [davb]
no its more like a twinkie I think...
04:09:01 [Spork]
Silly customer, you cannot hurt a twinkie!!!!!!!
04:09:09 [vinod]
Spork: hey, pour me a drink
04:09:15 [Spork]
ok
04:09:27 [vinod]
mmmm
04:09:29 [Spork]
* Spork pours vinod a nice triple shot of Goldshlager
04:09:41 [Spork]
don't puke man :)
04:09:54 [Spork]
anyone have a webcam?
04:09:57 [vinod]
heh, you don't know who you're talkin to
04:10:07 [vinod]
i grew up in the land of beer - Wisconsin!
04:10:08 [Spork]
drinking contest?
04:10:11 [Spork]
pshhhh
04:10:17 [Spork]
that's nothing
04:10:23 [Spork]
I grew up in Russia, the land of vodka
04:10:40 [Spork]
When we were moving here (USA) my dad threw a going away party
04:10:41 [vinod]
you win :-)
04:10:49 [Spork]
to this day I remember the amount of alcohol
04:11:03 [Spork]
3 CASES of vodka and 1 case of wine
04:11:10 [Spork]
between about 30 people
04:11:33 [vinod]
damn!
04:11:37 [Spork]
yeah no chit
04:11:44 [Spork]
I was 12 then
04:11:50 [Spork]
if I was older I'd be drunk too
04:11:52 [vinod]
lol - ouch!
04:12:25 [Spork]
yeah no chit ;)
04:12:35 [jabba_]
jabba_ has quit
04:14:12 [Spork]
* Spork goes to play CS
04:14:55 [vinod]
have fun!
04:15:05 [vinod]
* vinod goes to work on acs-messaging
04:16:10 [Spork]
heh
04:16:23 [Spork]
you're working at 12:15am on a sat morhing
04:16:24 [Spork]
d00d
04:16:26 [Spork]
go out
04:16:34 [Spork]
get wild and crazy!
04:16:34 [vinod]
i just got back
04:16:47 [vinod]
gotta play soccer tomorrow, so i couldn't stay out late
04:17:00 [vinod]
then gotta see patients tomorrow night
04:17:26 [vinod]
i've been wild and crazy - leave that to the kids now :-)
04:18:55 [Spork]
hehehe
04:19:51 [vinod]
trust me. college is the peak. it only gets harder after that (not necessarily worse, but certainly harder) :-)
04:21:44 [Spork]
harder?
04:21:51 [Spork]
you mean harder to get drunk due to lack of time?
04:22:29 [vinod]
yes, that's what I mean. i'll let you figure out the rest :-)
04:22:42 [vinod]
hate to rain on anyone's parade
04:22:51 [Spork]
heh
04:22:54 [Spork]
No problemo
04:23:04 [Spork]
My goal is not to get married until I am all partied out
04:23:35 [vinod]
good luck!
04:23:39 [Spork]
lol
04:23:43 [Spork]
Won't be hard to accomplish
04:24:02 [vinod]
what? getting partied out? or getting married?
04:27:45 [Spork]
neither
04:29:47 [Spork]
:)
04:33:29 [Spork]
oh boy
04:33:42 [Spork]
I am making my way throught this goldshlager bottle and it's making me hungry
04:37:26 [Spork]
hahahahhahahahaha
04:37:30 [Spork]
I'm so dunk i'ts not funny
04:44:11 [Spork]
detaches
05:01:41 [vinod]
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05:42:33 [rbm]
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16:04:59 [rbm]
moo
16:09:10 [markd2]
howdee
16:11:49 [rbm]
how goes it mark?
16:11:52 [davb]
hey
16:14:40 [rbm]
teacher! leave them kids alone!
16:15:11 [markd2]
it's going OK
16:16:06 [markd2]
* markd2 has to learn Oracle Replication quickly today to defuse a production time-bomb
16:17:14 [rbm]
heheh
16:17:39 [markd2]
not my favorite way of spending a saturday :-(
16:18:11 [rbm]
* rbm taps markd2 on the back and says "you can do it"
16:20:19 [markd2]
heh
16:20:34 [markd2]
* markd2 pulls his "the little train that said forget it" book off the shelf and re-reads it
16:25:56 [markd2]
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16:36:04 [markd2]
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16:46:54 [docwolf]
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16:47:30 [markd2]
yo doc
16:47:46 [docwolf]
howdy
16:47:52 [docwolf]
how's everything going :-(
16:48:11 [markd2]
hanging in there
16:48:21 [docwolf]
excellent
16:48:22 [markd2]
actually doing Real Work today :-(
16:48:33 [docwolf]
ugh
16:48:37 [markd2]
trying to prevent oracle replication from filling up a disk and taking a site down
16:49:57 [docwolf]
yikes
16:51:27 [docwolf]
hmm
16:51:31 [docwolf]
looks like lars set up a poll
16:51:34 [docwolf]
on the ex-aD group
16:51:55 [docwolf]
i guess pinds.com got shitcanned
16:51:57 [markd2]
that would be me
16:52:09 [docwolf]
ahh
16:52:18 [markd2]
but I was inspired by Lars
16:52:24 [docwolf]
it is an interesting philosophical debate
16:52:35 [docwolf]
to the layperson like myself
16:52:41 [docwolf]
ACS 3
16:52:43 [docwolf]
though a dumping ground
16:52:46 [docwolf]
was easy to understand
16:52:50 [markd2]
yeah
16:52:51 [docwolf]
and set up
16:52:59 [docwolf]
i'm still confused by ACS 4
16:53:07 [markd2]
I like acs 4
16:53:26 [markd2]
it has enough structure that makes it easier to make code consistent across packages
16:53:39 [markd2]
but doesn't go to ridiculous extremes like acs/java
16:53:47 [docwolf]
honestly
16:53:51 [docwolf]
i never even looked at ACS java
16:53:55 [docwolf]
it seemed like an alien world
16:54:12 [docwolf]
with its own language and customs
16:54:13 [markd2]
luckily I was still only in the Psets when the project I was on got cancelled
16:54:16 [docwolf]
that i just didn't want to get into
16:54:24 [markd2]
Ask CurtisG what he thinks :-)
16:54:29 [docwolf]
heh
16:54:36 [markd2]
just make sure you have a good chunk of time to spare
16:57:24 [docwolf]
that's part of the problem
16:57:41 [markd2]
unfortunately aD dropped development of acs4 before it got close to finished.
16:57:47 [rbm]
What does CurtisG thinks?
16:57:52 [rbm]
s/thinks/think/
16:57:58 [markd2]
he's not a big fan of acs/java
16:58:01 [rbm]
What's the URL for the ex-ad group again?
16:58:14 [markd2]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-ad
16:58:14 [chump]
A: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-ad from markd2
16:58:18 [rbm]
I would be very interesting in hearing CurtiG's opinion :-)
16:58:27 [markd2]
a:|ex-arsdigita yahoo group
16:58:36 [markd2]
a:| ex-arsdigita yahoo group
16:58:45 [markd2]
a| ex-arsdigita yahoo group
16:58:48 [markd2]
* markd2 kicks chump
16:58:51 [davb]
A:| ex-arsdigita yahoo group
16:58:51 [chump]
titled item A
16:58:54 [markd2]
thanks
16:59:11 [markd2]
that's just for folks who have survived the aD Experience - not an open group
16:59:19 [davb]
np. one of these days I'll learn Python and fix it up
16:59:56 [docwolf]
philg
16:59:58 [docwolf]
always insisted
17:00:02 [rbm]
Can I join the group to follow the discussions?
17:00:06 [docwolf]
that "aD was platform agnostic", etc...
17:00:08 [markd2]
I doubt it
17:00:16 [markd2]
private dirty laundry :-)
17:00:25 [docwolf]
"it was all about page flow + data model"
17:00:29 [docwolf]
but i disagree with that
17:00:30 [rbm]
oh, okay then
17:00:40 [markd2]
it's a nice conceptual foundation
17:00:42 [docwolf]
as the java project showed
17:00:52 [docwolf]
it was more about
17:00:56 [docwolf]
language
17:00:58 [docwolf]
than he realized
17:01:02 [rbm]
* rbm tapes docwolf's "enter" key so he doesn't press it so often
17:01:14 [docwolf]
quick & dirty vs. slow and difficult
17:01:21 [docwolf]
it's a nervous tick, roberto :-)
17:01:26 [markd2]
heh
17:01:44 [rbm]
* rbm loads the #openacs virtual freud to handle docwolf's tick
17:01:47 [markd2]
and most web apps aren't nearly of the same order of complexity as 2 million line desktop apps
17:02:03 [markd2]
so you don't really *need* all those towers of abstraction
17:02:08 [docwolf]
right. Hence the appeal of stuff like PHP.
17:02:12 [rbm]
markd2: Agreed.
17:02:26 [docwolf]
"amihotornot" doesn't really need a grand conceptual framework
17:02:46 [rbm]
But ACS4 is a good balance IMHO. We just need to improve its documentation and have a couple "wizzards" kind of thing to make it easier f or the newcomer.
17:03:21 [docwolf]
agreed, it needs to be easier. Increased "transparency", IMO, is also really important.
17:03:48 [docwolf]
for example, with something like phpnuke, it's really easy to find & fix the code that generates a specific page
17:04:07 [rbm]
yeah, that's true.
17:04:14 [docwolf]
in that respect, it's very much like the "old" ACS.
17:04:24 [rbm]
I find that PHP makes it hard to write anything but trivial apps.
17:04:43 [markd2]
"so if you've ever used C, Java, or Perl. PHP will be familiar because
17:04:43 [markd2]
it combines the worst of each language. But none of the powerful
17:04:43 [markd2]
parts. It looks a lot like cold fusion.
17:04:43 [markd2]
-- Rzolf
17:04:58 [docwolf]
ROTFL
17:05:06 [rbm]
Love that quote. Precisely my feelings.
17:05:39 [docwolf]
the interesting thing about php though is that it was evolved and constructed almost 100% for web/db usage
17:05:39 [markd2]
Rzolf is missing his calling as a Industry Pundit
17:05:51 [markd2]
Jon Katz whips up the slashdot crowd, but imagine what rzolf could do
17:05:59 [rbm]
heheh
17:06:13 [rbm]
brb
17:06:24 [docwolf]
the other thing about php that probably makes it so abhorrent to the openacs crowd
17:06:29 [markd2]
I'm weird - I like *none* of the Standard Internet Tools that everyone seems to use
17:06:33 [docwolf]
is the fact that it evolved around MySQL.
17:06:37 [markd2]
yeah
17:06:52 [markd2]
most folks in my LUG are "php is so cool! apache rules! MySQL is the best!! I love RedHat!"
17:07:12 [docwolf]
ugh. It's all about the right tool for the job
17:07:20 [docwolf]
php is great for fuckedauto.com but...
17:07:32 [davb]
Weird. I am always trying new stuff. It's distracting, but you learn alot more.
17:07:38 [markd2]
I consider php/mysql/sendmail, etc, to the be microsofts of the linux world
17:08:04 [docwolf]
the thing about php/mysql is that it takes like zero planning to build a site that works
17:08:22 [docwolf]
so you can cobble together a pile of junk really fast. Just don't expect miracles when you get a million hits.
17:08:27 [markd2]
most folks don't realie that most of the time is spent in maintenance and fixing rather than building
17:08:30 [docwolf]
it is the ultimate "novelty site" language.
17:08:31 [davb]
I can do the same thing is ASP/Access.
17:08:43 [davb]
not that I would want to....
17:08:50 [docwolf]
davb: exactly. but PHP is free, so it's even more ghetto.
17:08:57 [davb]
Aha.
17:09:19 [docwolf]
http://www.godwinsroom.com/html/index.php
17:09:19 [chump]
B: http://www.godwinsroom.com/html/index.php from docwolf
17:09:38 [docwolf]
total ghetto. It only cost me my time. And it made me laugh, so it was worth it.
17:09:40 [markd2]
godwinsroom never remembers my login, even if I tell it to set a persistent cookie
17:09:52 [markd2]
not that it's worth putting a lot of time into it :-)
17:09:57 [docwolf]
really?? uh-oh. maybe it's php's great session handling.
17:10:21 [docwolf]
if you ever want to use some fundamentally broken shit (that no one will admit is broken) try sessions in php.
17:10:32 [markd2]
the emperor has no cookies
17:10:34 [davb]
I still want to get my Computer Science degree. I am planning on building my own program. Anyway what does everyone think of the courses that adUNI offered? THe subjects anyway.
17:10:36 [docwolf]
rotfl
17:11:03 [docwolf]
davb: are the courses still online?
17:11:44 [davb]
I think so. The alumni took all the content and kept it up.
17:11:59 [davb]
You can mail them an 80gig drive and they will dump all the lectures on it for you.
17:12:06 [markd2]
whoa
17:12:07 [markd2]
that's cool
17:12:12 [davb]
yeah.
17:12:27 [docwolf]
hey vinod posted a link
17:12:31 [docwolf]
on godwinsroom
17:12:38 [davb]
cool.
17:12:40 [markd2]
awesome
17:12:42 [markd2]
any good?
17:12:43 [docwolf]
i guess i should check it more often :-)
17:12:48 [docwolf]
haven't read it yet. heh.
17:12:57 [docwolf]
why are flames so funny?
17:13:51 [markd2]
"gee man, if you're gonna get so worked up about something, at least get worked up about something *important*"
17:14:25 [docwolf]
seeing flames unfold in person is even funnier though.
17:14:33 [markd2]
flames are not funny! they're important! and you look funny! and your momma.. uh.. something!
17:14:37 [docwolf]
like, two grown people arguing about python vs. perl
17:14:57 [markd2]
heh
17:15:05 [docwolf]
(yes, this would frequently happen @ aD cambridge..)
17:15:38 [docwolf]
"shouldn't you be like... dating women or something instead of being here at 2am?"
17:15:51 [markd2]
is they're at 2am, that means they're working hard!
17:16:02 [davb]
oh my
17:16:13 [markd2]
since everyone knows if you work reasonable hours, you're a lame-ass slacker that shouldn't even be in the Greenspun RDF.
17:16:20 [docwolf]
rotfl
17:16:47 [davb]
"Software engineering: that part of computer science which is too difficult for the computer scientist."
17:16:56 [docwolf]
i hate to have to invoke godwin upon myself but...
17:17:04 [docwolf]
it's almost like nazi germany
17:17:06 [davb]
from that you are a hopeless newbie thread
17:17:17 [docwolf]
where its starts as a feeling of "community" and wanting to "belong" to somethin g
17:17:27 [docwolf]
then.. over time, the culture grows and gets perverted
17:17:36 [docwolf]
and gets more and more extreme
17:17:47 [docwolf]
until you end up with "if you're not around past midnight, you are no good"
17:18:13 [markd2]
Chunks was describing some corporate meetings during that time
17:18:29 [davb]
Wow. Check out "The Soul of a New Machine" (forget who it's by) Its about exactly that.
17:18:37 [markd2]
"MarkD doesn't log enough hours. he's a loser" Chunks: "he gets all his work done, doesn't he?" "well, yes. but he's not logging enough hours!"
17:18:58 [docwolf]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316491977/ref=bxgy_sr_text_a/104-1437289-9757556
17:18:58 [chump]
C: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316491977/ref=bxgy_sr_text_a/104-1437289-9757556 from docwolf
17:19:02 [markd2]
that's when I started logging all the time I spend on email.
17:19:08 [davb]
right.
17:19:13 [docwolf]
holy crap
17:19:27 [docwolf]
the UN should have airlifted copies of this book into aD HQ
17:20:06 [davb]
Heh. I can't believe it won a pullitzer though. The writing isn't that great.
17:20:40 [davb]
I got it for 50 cents at a library book sale.
17:20:49 [docwolf]
man oh man.
17:21:01 [docwolf]
the importance of leadership really can't be underscored highly enough
17:21:30 [docwolf]
the leader really does set the "culture"
17:21:30 [davb]
Maybe I'll stay an independent consultant, poor, but happy.
17:21:42 [docwolf]
I never really appreciated it as much in the past
17:22:02 [docwolf]
but i'm starting to understand the dynamics of building a "cult".
17:22:14 [docwolf]
(note... "cult" as the root of "culture")
17:22:30 [markd2]
ooooh
17:22:43 [docwolf]
the amazing thing about the aD experience is that philip really was in it for the money, yet he convinced a group of bright people
17:22:59 [docwolf]
that he was doing it for a deeper cause.
17:23:45 [docwolf]
(if you saw the way he structured the corporation, you'd see how he gave the symbolic middle-finger to basically everyone else.)
17:24:14 [markd2]
he's the only one that actually made more than a salary off the company
17:25:02 [docwolf]
that is true. And he made himself enough of a pain in the ass that the VCs paid him a large sum of money just to get rid of him
17:25:53 [docwolf]
(which is another fascinating topic in and of itself --- why greylock continues to pump cash in, and on what terms)
17:26:34 [davb]
That is interesting...
17:26:38 [docwolf]
but from being in the VC biz, i know this much: existing shareholders got the high, hard one from greylock when they put more money in.
17:26:53 [markd2]
yep
17:27:05 [markd2]
I had 92,000 options vested. I doubt I'll exercise any of them
17:27:17 [docwolf]
i'm guessing that even General Atlantic wrote off their entire investment
17:27:31 [docwolf]
because i don't think they put in any more cash (i could be wrong.. i don't really know)
17:27:46 [docwolf]
and if that's the case, then greylock diluted them to almost nothing with this latest round.
17:28:08 [docwolf]
or, at least, that's what _i_ would do, being the heartless VC I am ;-)
17:28:21 [docwolf]
it's like a big game of poker.
17:28:25 [davb]
Aha.
17:28:39 [docwolf]
one VC fund antes up, which forced the other to ante as well, or fold.
17:29:22 [markd2]
need to hop off. catch folks later
17:29:26 [docwolf]
later
17:29:32 [davb]
bye
17:29:44 [markd2]
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17:38:53 [rbm]
the PHP session stuff is b0rken??
17:39:08 [docwolf]
it doesn't seem to always work properly
17:39:17 [docwolf]
particularly with trying to end sessions
17:39:41 [docwolf]
it's got a distinctly microsoftian/random error feeling about it
17:39:53 [rbm]
I extended the PHP session and kept control of logged in or out myself.
17:40:03 [docwolf]
cool
17:40:09 [docwolf]
the frustrating thing about it
17:40:23 [docwolf]
is that sesssions are so fundamental to any web app. You'd think that they would make it bulletproof.
17:41:06 [rbm]
hey doc (or anyone), have you done credit card processing?
17:41:13 [rbm]
docwolf: indeed.
17:41:17 [docwolf]
nope
17:41:30 [rbm]
docwolf: But you gotta remember that these are the folks whe think MySQL is the best RDBMS around.
17:41:35 [rbm]
s/whe/who/
17:41:52 [docwolf]
true :-)
17:42:03 [rbm]
I'm thinking of doing it with authorize.net
17:42:26 [rbm]
docwolf: what did you think of my reply to Monty "Full or Crap" Widenius on /. ?
17:42:27 [docwolf]
how does this work,.. you send them some XML
17:42:39 [docwolf]
rbm: your reply was hillarious
17:42:46 [docwolf]
did he ever post a rebuttal?
17:42:56 [rbm]
Last time I checked, no.
17:43:16 [rbm]
I mist upset Monty very much. He has personally replied to 3 or 4 messages of mine in several lists/bboards
17:43:19 [rbm]
s/mist/must/
17:43:28 [docwolf]
haha
17:43:57 [rbm]
I stick the knife in his wounds by showing what MySQL really is.
17:45:01 [docwolf]
someone made a good point, though, that for PG to gain much more widespread popularity, the windows server must be easier to install.
17:45:09 [rbm]
* rbm envisions a "60 Minutes" exposee on MySQL. "The Truth Behind It"
17:45:13 [docwolf]
more people would then be likely to play around with it.
17:45:19 [rbm]
docwolf: that's true.
17:45:24 [rbm]
I'm actually working on that.
17:45:35 [docwolf]
really! very cool.
17:46:01 [docwolf]
i tried setting it up once with the cygnus tools, and it was just too painful.
17:46:09 [docwolf]
in constrast, mysql takes like 2 minutes to install.
17:46:18 [rbm]
I'm trying to find out how to put something on the task tray, so you can turn PG on/off and configure it right there.
17:46:23 [docwolf]
(even puts a little traffic light in the tray)
17:46:30 [docwolf]
yeah -- just like MySQL
17:46:43 [rbm]
docwolf: PostgreSQL comes pre-compiled with Cygwin now, but you still need cygipc if you're doing it in 9x/ME
17:47:10 [docwolf]
right. what they need is an install-shield version of PG, that does everything & fires it up
17:47:32 [docwolf]
rbm: try installing MySQL on windows. tell me what you think
17:47:43 [rbm]
do they do install shield too?
17:47:47 [docwolf]
yep.
17:47:55 [rbm]
I think you can use the Microsoft installer thing for free now can't you?
17:48:07 [docwolf]
i'm not sure.
17:48:13 [docwolf]
nothing in the M$ world is ever free...
17:48:21 [rbm]
Gotta be. Otherwise you'd have to pay for MySQL for win
17:54:08 [rbm]
* rbm tries to download the MySQL source (*pukes*)
17:54:19 [docwolf]
rotfl
17:55:43 [rbm]
If I can learn how to do this installer thing...
17:56:55 [davb]
If we can get OpenACS 4 running on Windows I might even be able to use it at work.
17:57:10 [davb]
That would be cool.
17:57:12 [docwolf]
sweet.
17:57:35 [docwolf]
rbm: the ultimate would be to have an installer that looks nearly like MySQL, plus....
17:57:55 [docwolf]
you might want to install the equivalent of PhpMyAdmin for PG
17:58:05 [docwolf]
(essentially, web-based DB administration)
17:58:15 [docwolf]
i think there is a PG version.
17:58:32 [docwolf]
you'd need some pretty serious excuse not to give PG a try, under those conditions.
17:59:30 [rbm]
yeah
18:10:53 [rbm]
Hmmm, the installer stuff is non-trivial to find in the mysql win source
18:10:57 [rbm]
I haven't found it yet.
18:11:05 [docwolf]
interesting
18:11:09 [docwolf]
maybe it's not there (?)
18:11:10 [rbm]
* rbm wishes some Win programmer would step up to th plate
18:11:26 [rbm]
It has to be. I grabbed the tarball you use to compile in windows.
18:11:31 [docwolf]
anyone here try mandrake 8.1?
18:11:56 [rbm]
no.
18:12:00 [rbm]
<-- Debian addict
18:12:06 [docwolf]
heh
18:12:40 [docwolf]
i'm downloading it now
18:12:50 [rbm]
There's no other linux distro I've seen that rivals it in terms of ease of maintenance and administration
18:13:02 [docwolf]
the thing about mandrake is
18:13:14 [docwolf]
it's for windows people who are nervous about linux.
18:13:19 [rbm]
true
18:13:29 [docwolf]
wow. i'm getting 700k/s download
18:14:44 [rbm]
pyretty cool
18:14:52 [rbm]
That's a python "pretty" for you :)
18:14:58 [docwolf]
heh
18:17:02 [rbm]
What is this with Mozilla not asking you where you want to save the file now???!?!?!?!
18:17:07 [docwolf]
!! what version?
18:17:13 [docwolf]
i'm using 0.9.5 and it just asked
18:18:29 [rbm]
0.9.4
18:28:03 [docwolf]
do you have any idea how mozilla
18:28:32 [docwolf]
saves files.... 'cause I just downloaded a mandrake ISO and it's grinding away at the disk.. like it made a temp file and is copying it, or somethiing.
18:29:36 [rbm]
That's what I'm saying. It's been saving my files to /tmp withsome funkyname
18:30:41 [docwolf]
i'm not sure what it's doing here
18:30:46 [docwolf]
it's grinding and grinding
18:30:51 [docwolf]
i'll let it go for a while
18:30:56 [docwolf]
i know that IE
18:31:00 [docwolf]
does make a temp file
18:31:02 [docwolf]
then copies it
18:31:38 [rbm]
http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/shots/cymbaline.png
18:31:38 [chump]
D: http://www.brasileiro.net/roberto/shots/cymbaline.png from rbm
18:32:00 [abbaJ]
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18:32:17 [rbm]
D:| Screenshot of the Cymbaline MP3 player, written in Python. Intelligent player, weighs songs.
18:32:17 [chump]
titled item D
18:32:43 [docwolf]
cool
18:37:26 [docwolf]
crap
18:37:42 [docwolf]
i just killed mozilla
18:37:48 [docwolf]
i'm not sure if i'm being totally impatient
18:37:54 [docwolf]
if it was trying to copy 700 megs
18:38:09 [docwolf]
it's really dumb behavior though
18:41:24 [rbm]
yep
18:41:47 [docwolf]
it should at least tell you "I'm about to copy an obscene amount of data. Please Wait."
18:42:00 [rbm]
Cool. I was just able to replicate 10% of what's already available in ACS Templating in PHP, because the stupid ISP can't compile AOLserver.
18:42:17 [docwolf]
very cool
18:44:08 [rbm]
I just can't think of doing things without a templating system anymore
18:47:37 [docwolf]
crud
18:47:48 [docwolf]
why do i think IE is going to crash and burn on this download
18:48:17 [talli]
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18:48:29 [talli]
hey guys
18:48:38 [docwolf]
hi talli
18:48:44 [talli]
que pasa doc?
18:48:48 [docwolf]
not much
18:49:29 [rbm]
docwolf: get cygwin and use wget
18:49:39 [docwolf]
ugh
18:51:39 [rbm]
Why?
18:51:47 [rbm]
Getting cygwin is very easy these days.
18:54:32 [talli]
rbm, does cygwin actually work?
18:56:42 [strainmaker]
cygwin is great, you can even run X on it
18:59:41 [strainmaker]
http://www.cygwin.com/xfree/
18:59:42 [chump]
E: http://www.cygwin.com/xfree/ from strainmaker
18:59:52 [rbm]
cygwin is great
18:59:55 [strainmaker]
E: XFree86 for Cygwin on Windows
18:59:55 [chump]
commented item E
18:59:58 [docwolf]
heh
19:00:19 [rbm]
having bash, grep, find, etc. in windows can be very useful
19:33:18 [docwolf]
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19:35:19 [rbm]
brb. eating lunch.
20:56:24 [talli]
talli has quit
22:03:25 [docwolf]
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22:06:16 [rbm]
impressive hostname doc
22:06:59 [docwolf]
?
22:07:48 [rbm]
docwolf (docwolf@dialup-64.152.153.191.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) has joined channel #openacs
22:08:05 [docwolf]
zoinks
22:08:05 [rbm]
:)
22:08:16 [docwolf]
guess earthlink has to go to some trouble
22:08:20 [docwolf]
to get decent connectivity here
22:08:43 [docwolf]
i always wondered
22:08:52 [docwolf]
how they dealt with the regional ISPs
22:08:54 [docwolf]
that they swallowed
22:20:52 [docwolf]
hmm
22:20:56 [rbm]
hmmmm
22:20:57 [docwolf]
mozilla has tabs now
22:21:05 [rbm]
'tabs'?
22:21:08 [docwolf]
hit ctrl-T
22:21:14 [docwolf]
and it opens up a tabbed window
22:21:18 [docwolf]
like opera
22:21:24 [docwolf]
so you don't need to open up multiple instances
22:21:45 [docwolf]
i guess this saves memory? (?)
22:22:30 [rbm]
Maybe this is a 0.9.5 thing. It doesn't do anything on 0.9.4
22:22:41 [docwolf]
yeah, i think it's new
22:23:02 [docwolf]
the IRC client also seems to work OK
22:32:17 [docwolf]
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