00:22:51 loggy has joined #openacs 00:22:51 topic is: OpenACS - Free Enterprise Web Toolkit 00:22:51 Users on #openacs: loggy jabba__ foonatz rbm shagster AaronSw Spork yanni chump strainmaker2 00:22:51 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 00:22:56 anyone? 00:25:34 rownum! 00:32:51 talli has joined #openacs 01:57:13 rafa has joined #openacs 01:57:36 hi 02:10:25 hi 02:11:53 how are you doing roberto 02:12:13 Not too good. But gotta be positive, so not too bad. 02:12:23 what's ip? 02:12:31 s/ip/up/ 02:12:34 :) 02:14:38 what di they do? 02:15:24 rafa: It would take me half an hour to explain, so I'm not going to even try. 02:15:35 I get the picture anyway 02:15:51 have you played with cms? 02:16:13 rafa: A little bit. 02:16:30 I am half argentinean... you can't imagine how many times they told me Rio was Argentinas capital... 02:17:05 In hi school in CA I was once asked if we had TV sets! 02:17:22 that gives you an idea of what some people think of our countries 02:17:47 cms: I am trying to get a demo up 02:18:01 just playing around 02:19:03 have you looked at ETP? It's nice. 02:19:18 rafa: I've been asked if I had ever seen a car. 02:19:36 whow that's even better! 02:19:49 have a look at:http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002tx&topic_id=14&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Testing 02:20:04 I haven't tried ETP 02:20:19 docwolf has joined #openacs 02:20:26 hola 02:20:48 buenos dias 02:21:10 o noches (?) 02:21:19 noches. i'm in michigan 02:25:10 what time? 02:25:57 rbm: I have a set of pages and do not need a complex workflow. You reckon ETP is better? 02:27:17 rafa: ETP is better if you're looking to get something up ASAP 02:27:26 in fact, from what I've heard, ETP is just better. 02:27:54 i'm kinda tooting my own (or luke's) horn, but ETP actually works. which is more than most people can say about CMS 02:29:04 i am trying to show some people how coold OACS is. CMS offers a lot of functionalities that they would find in things like Vignette 02:29:12 davb has joined #openacs 02:29:25 (at least that what the package offers) I am not sure what delivers 02:32:07 Hi 02:32:20 yo 02:35:37 * davb endorses ETP, but CMS does have more buzzword compliance. 02:35:57 what are you trying to show? 02:36:19 reading ETP docs, I see that I am not the only one having problems understanding CMS use 02:36:32 that's why it's better :) 02:36:39 it just doesn't make any sense 02:36:41 I was hoping that the CMS_news demo would put me up to speed quickly 02:36:57 99% of web sites don't need the stuff in CMS. Large corporate organizations THINK they need all the whiz-bang features in CMS. 02:37:05 talli: it makes sense in big projects 02:37:06 luke built it because he spent a day trying to work with it. if luke spends a day working on something with the ACS and makes no progress, it probably sucks 02:37:31 there's nothing in the CMS that can't be built into ETP 02:37:37 ETP uses the CMS data model 02:37:49 but without all the horrible CMS interface code 02:38:23 there's basically no reason ETP can't be used in big projects, at least as well as an unworkable CMS 02:38:31 I havent' seen much of either. what people buying cms is looking for is: 02:38:52 1 content people do not need to learn html to put a page 02:39:11 2. they can design workflows so more than 1 can work on the same doc 02:39:28 3. rol back at any time 02:39:57 well those are the ones that come to my tired mind now ;-) 02:40:10 1) has not been implemented, but will be soon 02:40:23 talli: re 1) cool! 02:40:39 2) no prob, at least not as much as CMS currently has. there's no reason workflow can't be used with ETP 02:40:44 3) it's already in there 02:41:00 i gotta step away. brn 02:41:02 brb 02:41:14 I will have to install it and play a bit ;-) 02:41:33 The data model is really great for ETP. And it is easy to work with it. 02:45:53 tried to download it but get a time out from museatech 02:47:42 You can check it out with OpenACS 4. cvs co edit-this-page from your openacs-4/packages directory. (if you are using CVS) 02:48:26 jabba__ has quit 02:49:22 jabba__ has joined #openacs 02:51:08 It downloaded now.. 02:51:16 cool 02:51:40 any idea why you get a timeout? 02:51:40 is it the network or the machine? not good for our rep if it's on our side... 02:54:04 it said something lilke socket timeout... did not pay much atention. I just called the url in the browser and saved the file 02:54:24 then installed using files in APM 02:54:54 it installed beatifully in 30 secs, I am looking at it now 02:55:41 bah 02:55:50 * Spork pokes davb in the eye with talli 02:56:10 aiigh! 02:56:16 :) 02:56:22 * Spork pokes dave with a spork 02:56:27 * davb experiences an eye-socket timeout 02:56:32 lol 02:57:00 i showed my resumee to the career center peeps 02:57:10 They like :) 02:57:17 Just a few minor adjustments 02:57:25 cool 02:57:26 i'm all set...now someone give me a job 02:57:50 sorry there aren't any. Here is your spatula... 02:58:13 D'oh 02:58:34 hmmm 02:58:39 Yankees better not lose again today 02:58:47 1 more and they're out of the playoffs 03:00:46 I think I'll do the modem rack tomorrow 03:00:52 I'm not in the mood for ACS ;) 03:04:02 i apologize then but I wanted to thank talli 03:04:09 its really cool! 03:04:22 I already have a couple of pages with my own templates 03:04:40 See! 03:04:46 Its great. 03:04:53 good to hear raga 03:04:56 rafa 03:05:09 * davb is not paid to advertise for ETP... 03:05:15 ETP is really cool. like i said, it actually works :) 03:05:26 ETP roxq0rs 03:05:45 at musea we have our own acronym: TGFL 03:05:47 I spend 3 hours yestarday and 1 today with CMS... 03:05:54 it stands for Thank God For Luke 03:06:01 it tokk 5 min maybe less with this 03:06:33 it really is incredible that aD was able to fuck up one of their most critical apps so badly 03:06:44 now, they have chosen to fire all of their best people. oh well. 03:06:55 Spork has quit 03:06:56 rbm, we really need to get that word "Arsdigita" out of the name 03:07:04 it reflects badly on us 03:07:32 We've been looking for a new name for a while now 03:07:35 rafa, we've managed to build relatively complicated websites in a week with ETP. it's really easy to build templates with 03:08:33 looks like 03:08:38 the aD issue 03:08:45 made it to everyone's "favorite" site 03:08:56 http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/133309.html 03:08:56 E: http://forum.fuckedcompany.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/133309.html from docwolf 03:10:07 uhhhh 03:10:26 When I think that aD had everything to succeed and be a great company... 03:10:33 It's sad. 03:11:16 Almost everything. Too bad they lost direction. 03:12:11 Cool word for new name? interiority 03:12:17 There's even a forum on yahoo for ex-aD'ers 03:12:28 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-ad 03:12:28 F: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-ad from rbm 03:12:30 wow. 03:12:31 rbm: that should be a party... 03:12:36 i should probably join 03:12:43 :) 03:12:49 davb: I agree. 03:14:52 got to go, see u 03:14:57 picaboo 03:15:00 rafa has left #openacs 03:19:50 anyone know who pumpin the puppy is? 03:19:56 no idea 03:20:02 More words to think about: noggin , reservatory 03:20:15 what are you guys talking about? 03:20:18 Thanks to whomever runs ex-ad ;) 03:20:29 I am thinking about names. 03:20:45 brainstorming. 03:21:09 The Noggin Community System -- sounds good to me 03:21:10 I've suggested "supimpa" but someone told me it sounds like a Nissan ad for a car in Mexico 03:21:42 it sounds more like some guy that's on the corner in platform boots and a big floppy hat 03:21:49 named Smooth Willy 03:22:23 i was thinking something like Carnival or something 03:22:40 Just replace ArsDigita with Active. 03:22:43 The Carnivore Community System 03:22:43 Active Community System! 03:22:58 how about Another Community System 03:23:03 heh 03:23:17 no, i think, as ben once said, "community system" has got to go too 03:23:17 how about Brutus 03:23:22 (inside aD joke) 03:23:32 rbm: please remind me what supimpa means... 03:23:34 Yeah, 03:23:34 docwolf: elaborate, please? 03:23:35 :) 03:23:38 will the explanation be on yahoo groups? 03:23:45 heh... 03:23:46 So Noggin. 03:23:53 davb: it means "cool", but it's 70's slang 03:23:55 Or we can make up a new work. 03:24:07 s/work/word 03:24:14 WeHateMySQL System 03:24:22 anyway, i was thinking Carnival as a metaphor for the system - a group of many pieces, each of which contributes to make the system different 03:24:32 supimpa.com is taken. 03:24:44 Heh. 03:24:48 talli: gotta have naked chixq0rs if it's going to be carnival 03:24:50 Active Carnival Society? 03:25:16 gotta have naked chicks anyway you look at, IMHO 03:25:19 Stop talking interesting stuff or I'll never get my hmwk done :) 03:25:23 talli: :) 03:25:50 pat colgan suggested a good idea 03:25:54 Ok, noone think until rbm is done with his homework. 03:26:44 davb: :) 03:27:05 to name it after a central plaza 03:27:39 for instance ... 03:28:10 Zocalo 03:28:44 http://www.mexicocity.com.mx/zocal2.html 03:28:44 G: http://www.mexicocity.com.mx/zocal2.html from talli 03:28:50 my thinking 03:29:01 was "functional" 03:29:02 in that 03:29:09 it's no longer a "community system" 03:29:15 G: This great square, called the Zocalo, evokes the place of homage and center of the world which was the heart of the ceremonial nucleus of Mexico-Tenochtitlan. The Zocalo brings together the rhythmic beating of drums, the ankle-rattles of the native dancers and the glowing incense of modern day medicine men. A point of reference, of protest, of ritual and of national celebration, by night it offers an imposing spectacle which culminates in the tumul 03:29:15 commented item G 03:29:18 it's really a "framework" for designing a dynamic site 03:29:26 and the name should reflect that 03:29:34 docwolf: right. 03:29:38 docwolf: good thinking 03:29:43 * davb agrees with everyone ahead to save time... 03:30:04 good point 03:30:10 Small 03:30:10 Pieces Loosely Joined 03:30:21 JOHO 03:30:35 yep. Talli's explaination made me think of it. 03:32:13 Spork has joined #openacs 03:32:23 gah 03:32:25 stupid thing is sporking on me 03:32:55 spork, are you psyche? 03:35:18 G: one of talli's suggestions for the new name 03:35:18 commented item G 03:35:35 Zocalo is not bad actually 03:36:04 although it does kind of sound like zope 03:36:07 which is not good 03:36:33 .com and .org are taken. 03:36:34 yeah 03:36:44 also .net 03:37:50 yeah, but i bet .info is still available :) 03:39:07 zocalo.tv :) 03:42:26 eccentric nucleus (pattern #28 in A Pattern Language) 03:43:04 or #45 Necklace of Community Projects 03:43:22 or #58 Carnival (for Talli) 03:44:47 jabba__ has quit 03:44:52 docwolf has quit 03:45:16 ok guys. i'm crashing. talk to you tomorrow 03:45:22 later! 03:45:29 btw, rbm - i'm volunteering to help with documentation 03:45:34 later 03:45:34 you know those are being blocked because they start with # 03:45:35 Cool. 03:45:37 bye talli 03:45:41 ARHG! 03:45:43 blocked from the logs that is 03:45:44 talli has quit 03:45:45 heh 03:46:05 at least you told me before i got to 204 03:46:29 81 Small Services Without Red Tape 03:46:33 talli: excellent 03:46:38 114 Hierarchy of Open Space 03:46:47 126 Something Roughly in the middle 03:46:55 129 Common Areas at the heart 03:47:01 134 Zen View 03:47:37 172 Garden Growing WIld (for our friends) 03:47:45 178 Compost (or those who are not) 03:48:15 206 Efficient Structure 03:48:51 236 Windows which open wide 03:49:18 Ok enough. Obviously its time for me to go. 03:49:40 I will look at those tomorrow when my brain is working. Thanks for listening! 03:49:55 davb has quit 04:57:32 G: 04:57:32 http://www.mexicocity.com.mx/zocal2.html 04:57:33 (talli) This great square, called the Zocalo, evokes the place of homage and center of the world which was the heart of the ceremonial nucleus of Mexico-Tenochtitlan. The Zocalo brings together the rhythmic beating of drums, the ankle-rattles of the native dancers and the glowing incense of modern day medicine men. A point of reference, of protest, of ritual and of national celebration, by night it offers an imposing spectacle which culminates 04:57:34 (talli) one of talli's suggestions for the new name 05:11:43 foonatz has left #openacs 05:21:43 Spork has quit 05:21:43 rbm has quit 05:21:43 AaronSw has quit 05:21:44 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 05:21:56 loggy has joined #openacs 05:21:56 topic is: OpenACS - Free Enterprise Web Toolkit 05:21:56 Users on #openacs: loggy shagster Spork rbm AaronSw 05:21:56 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 05:22:40 chump has joined #openacs 05:23:06 yanni has joined #openacs 05:23:23 strainmaker2 has joined #openacs 05:28:34 jerryasher has joined #openacs 06:06:20 rzolf has joined #openacs 06:08:18 jerryasher has quit 06:12:25 rzolf has quit 06:15:51 rzolf has joined #openacs 06:16:07 if i have a query 06:16:10 that all of the sudden 06:16:14 got really really slow. 06:33:17 anyone awake 06:56:52 rzolf has quit 07:22:22 rzolf has joined #openacs 08:06:26 rzolf has quit 08:07:06 djg has joined #openacs 09:04:11 jerryasher has joined #openacs 10:42:45 ola has joined #openacs 10:44:09 hey everyone! 11:39:07 rzolf has joined #openacs 11:50:34 rzolf has quit 12:55:04 f/quit 12:55:07 djg has quit 13:25:51 davb has joined #openacs 13:29:33 AaronSw has quit 13:47:44 shagster has quit 13:47:54 shagster has joined #openacs 13:50:56 shagster has quit 13:50:59 shagster has joined #openacs 13:57:37 AaronSw has joined #openacs 13:57:37 shagster has quit 14:00:14 shagster has joined #openacs 14:01:53 shagster has quit 14:03:08 shagster has joined #openacs 14:05:07 shagster has quit 14:06:50 shagster has joined #openacs 14:18:44 shagster has quit 14:18:45 shagster_ has joined #openacs 14:20:16 shagster_ has quit 14:20:55 shagster_ has joined #openacs 14:23:01 shagster_ has quit 14:26:44 I need to fetch a brand new mp3_id for mp3__new. is this the same as an object_id? 14:27:08 yes. 14:27:44 there is a view acs_object_id_seq but i doesent return a thing 14:28:50 That is for oracle/postgresql compatability. You can call acs_object_id_seq.nextval and get the next id in the sequence. You never need to call that. 14:30:16 aha. like this: select acs_rel_id_seq.nextval; ? 14:30:26 yes. 14:30:28 cool. 14:30:32 thanks 14:30:40 np 14:33:14 yes. mp3__new calls acs_object__new, gets the object_id and stuff it into mp3_mp3s 14:33:19 as the mp3_id 14:38:11 ah. so the way I ported it is wrong? : 14:38:13 create function mp3__new (integer,varchar,varchar,varchar,varchar,varchar,integer,varchar,varchar,integer,boolean,integer,integer,boolean,numeric,integer) 14:38:13 returns integer as ' 14:38:13 declare 14:38:13 p_mp3_idalias for $1; -- default null 14:38:13 p_file_pathalias for $2; -- default null 14:38:14 p_titlealias for $3; -- default null 14:38:20 ... 14:38:47 hmmm.. 14:39:05 I take mp3_id as a parameter 14:39:38 no, i think that's ok... you should. All of the __new functions do. Just the way you use it is to pass NULL as the id. 14:40:07 aha 14:40:48 acs_object_new accepts an ID also. I think you COULD use your own ID numbers instead of taking the ones acs_object__new assigns you. 14:43:49 davb has quit 14:47:31 vinod has joined #openacs 14:48:44 hi vinod! 14:49:00 hey ola! 14:49:12 davb has joined #openacs 14:49:19 power outage... 14:49:37 vinod: do you need some help with the docs? 14:50:15 ola: well, rbm is putting together a document that outlines our documentation plan 14:50:16 I can convert to DocBook and PDF... 14:50:29 but undoubtedly, we'll need all the help we can get :-) 14:51:00 ola: cool! I'm a DocBook newbie, so I'll probably need your help 14:53:24 davb: is your hard drive ok? 14:54:04 yeah, but its not mine anyway :) 14:57:35 AaronSw has quit 15:01:03 Where does chump log to again? 15:02:20 http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog/ 15:05:31 davb: thanks 15:06:10 np. its easy for me to remember. 15:06:13 Was it you that posted that CSS reference linx the other day? 15:06:18 I have to get the search working. 15:06:20 8-) 15:06:21 Probably. 15:06:28 I'm looking for it. 15:06:47 like I said, I have to get search working. I'll have to get the information in the database one of these days. 15:07:14 Or just use static pages to index them.... 15:08:37 all I can find is one on 10/4 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Guide/Style 15:09:38 there's more css links here: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/radio-blog-day.adp?entry_date=2001%2d10%2d09 15:09:53 I also need to categorize my weblog so the CSS stuff is easier to find. 15:10:55 I think that's the one 15:15:00 davb: that's good stuff! 15:15:59 Yep. 15:21:50 hey guys, can you help me select the 13 most interesting keys from the following list: :-) 15:22:06 1: artist - Digger 15:22:07 2: album - PowerbaitTCO 15:22:07 3: title - I Want My Hat Back 15:22:07 4: genre - 15:22:07 5: copyright - 1 15:22:07 6: stereo - 1 15:22:09 7: padding - 1 15:22:11 8: frame_length - 12 15:22:13 9: size - 2295612 15:22:15 10: frequency - 8 15:22:17 11: mm - 2 15:22:19 12: bitrate - 112 15:22:21 13: layer - 1 15:22:23 14: ms - 972.285714285704 15:22:25 15: frames - 184468 15:22:27 16: time - 02:43 15:22:29 17: version - 2.5 15:22:31 18: mode - 1 15:22:33 19: secs - 163.972285714286 15:22:35 20: ss - 43 15:22:37 21: vbr - 0 15:25:52 maybe I missed something when it comes to overloading functions, but I don't think I can have them all (21) plus about six more in the db..?! 15:26:28 You can have up to 36 parameters in a function? 15:26:32 s/?// 15:26:52 in postgresql?? 15:27:26 yes 15:27:35 how does overloading work? 15:28:05 I read the code referenced from the FAQ, but still dont get it. 15:28:36 There can be more than one function with the same name. Postgresql checks the parameters to determine which function you are calling. 15:29:09 So you could have function(integer) and function(integer,varchar) 15:30:24 For OpenACS, you would figure out the most popular choices and create a function that had some of them set explicitly instead of passed in. 15:30:47 so I can insert in the first one and update some columns in the second? 15:30:57 Most of the functions have way more parameters than are actually used. 15:31:07 Yes, but that would be bad form for OpenACS, i think. 15:31:19 you'd want mp3__new and mp3__update 15:31:22 or something like that. 15:31:57 hmmm. 15:32:34 true 15:32:56 Check out acs-content-repository/sql/postgresql/content-item.sql 15:33:06 I was thinking I could decimate the params to 13 (plus some other necessary). 15:33:41