00:05:53 loggy has joined #openacs 00:05:53 topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/ 00:05:53 Users on #openacs: loggy rbm strainmaker abbaJ Psychephylax davb talli docwolf jerryasher shagster AaronSw chump 00:05:53 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 00:08:36 talli has quit 00:32:26 okay, irc newbie here: i'm so jealous that all you guys can do this sotto voce, whispering, stage direction stuff. 00:32:29 How do you do that? 00:32:37 Are you just mumbling into your keyboard? 00:43:25 davb has quit 00:43:25 abbaJ has quit 00:43:25 Psychephylax has quit 00:43:25 strainmaker has quit 00:43:25 jerryasher has quit 00:43:25 docwolf has quit 00:43:25 rbm has quit 00:43:25 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (Connection reset by peer) 00:43:37 loggy has joined #openacs 00:43:37 topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/ 00:43:37 Users on #openacs: loggy shagster rbm strainmaker abbaJ Psychephylax davb docwolf jerryasher 00:43:37 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 00:44:04 heh 00:44:07 AaronSw has joined #openacs 00:44:24 jerryasher: /me whatever 00:44:27 chump has joined #openacs 00:53:54 BenSW has joined #openacs 00:54:04 BenSW has left #openacs 01:03:50 * jerryasher sotto voce, i always loved it when snagglepuss would exit, stage left 01:05:06 * jerryasher http://www.animationartgallery.com/HBCBB14.html 01:12:50 haha! 01:33:23 moo 01:35:40 boohoo :( 01:36:08 oh no! what's wrong? 02:21:12 hi all 02:21:48 hello 02:22:01 how's it going? 02:22:48 not bad. avoiding work again. 02:29:41 davb has quit 03:07:31 Hey docwolf you there? 03:10:26 hi 03:10:29 how's it going? 03:11:13 Okay here, I was just curious as to what you were doing these days? 03:11:41 The MBA/Dr. thing ... 03:12:29 (If you don't mind my being nosy.) 03:46:09 jerryasher has quit 04:52:52 moo 05:01:43 moo 05:01:51 go to bed you silly cow 05:04:55 I need to 07:17:43 docwolf has quit 08:38:57 chump has quit 08:38:57 shagster has quit 08:38:57 abbaJ has quit 08:38:57 Psychephylax has quit 08:38:57 strainmaker has quit 08:38:57 AaronSw has quit 08:39:02 ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/ 08:39:02 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 08:39:21 strainmaker has joined #openacs 08:39:21 abbaJ has joined #openacs 08:39:21 Psychephylax has joined #openacs 08:39:21 shagster has joined #openacs 08:39:21 AaronSw has joined #openacs 08:39:21 chump has joined #openacs 09:44:10 ola has joined #openacs 10:06:49 rbm has quit 10:06:51 rbm has joined #openacs 12:06:02 markd2 has joined #openacs 12:13:24 hi markd2! 12:14:02 howdee 12:16:09 so, you're a balloon artist as well as an oracle artist? 12:16:50 I thought it was only talli's uncle who did this balloon stuff.. 12:17:33 or maybe his brother.:-) 12:19:05 his brother 12:19:15 yeah, I've been doing ballons for fun for awhile 12:19:30 but only seriously recently (and even then, this Job Thing has gotten in the way) 12:19:40 heh 12:24:41 mark, can you use current_timestamp in oracle? 12:24:55 current_timestamp? 12:25:38 SQL92 for sysdate.. 12:28:13 they encourage us to use it instead of now() when porting to PG. 12:28:50 (Roberto at least) 12:29:57 doesn't look like it works in oracle 12:30:09 is it used something like 'select current_timestamp() from whatever' 12:30:12 ? 12:31:42 there's not a current_timestamp function, but it would probably be pretty easy to build one 12:32:22 aha 12:32:42 in PG I can just do: select current_timestamp; 12:32:59 or: select now(); 12:34:05 ok 12:34:10 what does it return? 12:34:14 looks like there's already a function created named sysdate() 12:34:14 just a DATE type? 12:34:45 openacs4=# select current_timestamp; 12:34:45 timestamp 12:34:45 ------------------------ 12:34:45 2001-10-09 16:37:18+02 12:34:46 (1 row) 12:35:14 is this different from DATE? 12:35:33 create or replace function current_timestamp return date as begin return sysdate; end; 12:35:38 that's how you'd do it in oracle 12:36:00 so if that function is in there, then oracle can use current_Timestamp, and life is full of happiness and light 12:36:14 cool:-) 12:36:36 thanks! 13:11:57 davb has joined #openacs 13:23:12 morning davb. 13:27:34 Hi. 13:31:49 How's the porting going? 13:31:52 does anything on openacs4 require the ns_xml module? 13:31:56 morning all 13:32:00 (hi, btw) 13:32:02 Uh yeah. All of it. 13:32:10 Well the query dispatcher. 13:32:11 markd2: everything on OACS 4 13:32:49 thanks 13:33:40 markd2: get the updated one at http://acs-misc.sourceforge.net 13:35:13 davb: slowly getting closer. 13:36:05 (Dan W rocks, btw) 13:36:08 Cool. I wonder if there is a way when you are building a new package, to build for Oracle and Postgresql at the same time. 13:36:35 Yes he does. 13:38:02 good question. I was just thinking of how to write a new package for PG alone. 13:38:47 just compare with ETP is the answer, I guess. 13:39:41 that is a great example. the developer's guide gives a really general example of building a simple package. 13:43:15 rbm: would it be a major pain to remove the perl deps form mp3jukebox, do ya think? 13:44:46 ola: No, I don't think. 13:45:26 Since all he's doing is extracting the ID3 Tags, there's gotta be a way to do it in plain Tcl 13:47:05 in that case I got to try and do it in Tcl. 13:47:40 Yeah, you'll have to do some little research to find out how to get id3 tags, but my guess is that it shouldn't be hard. 13:48:16 right. 13:52:48 hmm... does anyone know if acs-lang works in postgresql? 13:57:19 status is "testing" 14:02:10 Wow. I was out for a week, and I still don't have any work to do. 14:23:06 moo fozz 14:23:08 * rbm heads out 14:33:40 ASwartz has joined #openacs 14:33:45 rbm_ has joined #openacs 14:36:02 strainmaker2 has joined #openacs 14:36:25 strainmaker has quit 14:36:25 rbm has quit 14:36:25 AaronSw has quit 15:01:04 rzolf has joined #openacs 15:01:53 rzolf is in the haüs 15:04:47 there are no cool jobs in Albany. 15:04:54 hehe. 15:05:35 Actually there is one web programmer job. Requires Oracle and Java though. Guess I better DL a copy of ACS/Java. 15:05:55 and it doesn't require a degree. Don't see that too often. 15:07:11 i've actually never come across a programming job that requrired a degree 15:08:00 all my jobs required a degree 15:08:03 that's why I always try to run a fever 15:08:34 (foghorn noise) 15:09:03 Albany is not a hotbed of technology. 15:09:34 hotbeds of technology are overrated, though. 15:09:55 true. 15:10:10 the rent is a lot more, and girls still dont find you attractive 15:10:18 heh! 15:10:31 the non-hotbeds aren't all that great 15:10:47 out here in western PA, the rent is cheap, but the girls still don't find rzolf attractive 15:10:54 I have a nice yard and cable internet access so I guess I won't complain. 15:11:18 got your wireless installed yet? 15:11:54 in general, you should always explore career paths like "rock star" or "professional basketball player" before worrying about finding a cool tech job 15:12:53 nope, didn't buy it yet. 15:12:57 Yeah I already tried that. 15:13:08 didn't work out. 15:13:20 sold the guitar for food. 15:13:23 made michael jordan look bad 15:13:32 my SATs werent good enough to stay on the bball team, but hoefully this rock thing will pan out. 15:13:34 yeah photshop is great! 15:13:46 photoshop that is 15:14:11 Anyway. The problem is all the locals are unaware of the benefits of a real-live database-backed web site. 15:14:46 thats because there are few 15:15:01 aside from feeding a data-base baked web programmer 15:15:39 heh 15:15:40 This is my competition: "Links to other web sites - $10 each. 15:15:52 rzolf: yeah, but I don't tell them that! 15:16:03 oh yeah 15:16:09 i forgot why i came here. 15:16:11 and don't forget the classic: Scrolling Text on the browser's status bar - Scrolls from left to right on the gray status bar on the bottom of the browser - $10 per page. 15:16:17 rzolf: sorry. 15:16:23 whats the deal with the latest CVS checkout being totally broken 15:16:32 it is? 15:16:36 it doesnt get past the install. 15:16:49 I guess I haven't got that one. 15:17:07 is there a clean build anywhere? 15:17:09 on postgresql? 15:17:30 try these: 15:17:31 :) 15:17:31 or can people just commitanything? i dont fully understand how code gets into the CVS tree. 15:17:33 XML class 15:17:37 http://openacs.org/sdm/nightly-tarballs.tcl?package_id=9 15:17:37 A: http://openacs.org/sdm/nightly-tarballs.tcl?package_id=9 from davb 15:17:54 A:| Nightly tarballs of OpenACS 4 - UNDER DEVELOPMENT UNTESTED! 15:17:54 titled item A 15:18:01 ugh. 15:18:22 A: Okay, not totally untested, just not guaranteed 15:18:23 commented item A 15:18:35 hm 15:18:46 i dunno if that is too encouraging. 15:18:47 Mine is working fine on Postgresql from a couple of days ago. 15:18:58 so is mine, from like 3 weeks ago. 15:19:02 but i couldnt add subsites. 15:19:07 A: Less buggy than IIS 15:19:08 commented item A 15:19:10 so i got the latest CVS snapshot 15:19:21 and it doesnt install 15:19:34 What kind of error are you getting? 15:19:35 i dunno, last time i installed IIS, it...installed. 15:19:44 this is the error message: 15:19:46 A: or not 15:19:46 commented item A 15:19:53 Error: 15:20:55 so. 15:20:57 yeah. 15:21:11 thats it? 15:21:15 yeah. 15:21:29 Where is that appearing, browser or log? 15:21:31 Back to class 15:21:43 browser 15:22:02 How far does it get, or is that the click here to begin installation response? 15:22:27 it chokes on the workflow install 15:22:28 and then just dies. 15:22:39 and gives no real error message. 15:22:45 Weird. 15:23:35 anything in the -error log? 15:23:59 oh yesah 15:24:03 the error log 15:25:56 Error: Error sourcing /web/gitdown/packages/acs-bootstrap-installer/installer/packages-install.tcl: 15:25:56 psql:acs-install.sql:247: ERROR: apm_packages_package_key_fk referential integrity violation - key referenced from apm_packages not found in apm_package_types 15:25:58 psql:acs-install.sql:254: ERROR: ExecAppend: Fail to add null value in not null attribute object_id 15:26:15 * markd2 nods 15:26:24 I think that's the "yer screwed" error 15:26:34 hehe. 15:26:37 but, 15:26:44 :'-( 15:26:47 I am attempting an install. I'll tell you what happens in a bit. 15:26:57 i may attempt sleeping. 15:27:14 did you checkout acs-core or openacs-4? 15:27:23 acs-core 15:27:29 me too. ok 15:28:33 nope same error 15:33:22 ok 15:33:26 well 15:33:27 i am tired 15:33:30 so 15:33:39 i'll figure this out later 15:33:40 rzolf has quit 15:58:24 This is cool: 15:58:27 http://www.equi4.com/wikit/ 15:58:28 B: http://www.equi4.com/wikit/ from davb 15:58:37 B:|WiKit - Tcl based Wiki 15:58:37 titled item B 15:58:50 B: runs on top of TclKit 15:58:50 commented item B 16:13:24 til has joined #openacs 16:15:39 WOW. I found someone who works with ACS in New York outside of NYC. Although the company he works for is in Boston. 16:16:34 heh 16:16:46 * Psychephylax makes a random appearance after his hands on training 16:17:31 Oh was that the XML class you mentioned. Any good? 16:21:30 moo 16:21:55 The original Wiki was written in Tcl. 16:22:03 rbm_ is now known as rbm 16:24:10 Really. I did not know that. 16:24:47 Yep. Then the ports showed up, in every imaginable language. 16:24:49 WiKit is cool more for a personal system than a web system. It includes MetaKit for storage. The program and data are all in one file. So you can just ship off the whole thing. 16:25:05 I am going to fool around with it to keep track of all my stuff. 16:25:53 Why does Dr. Allan send his advising notes in HTML??? 16:25:55 oops 16:26:08 sure beats them being sent as a word doc 16:26:29 But his e-mail nas _nothing_ that needs special formatting. It's just plain text. 16:27:35 still, it's better than the director of a college band I'm playing in does 16:27:43 sends out word docs, but includes word perfect docs for those who can't read word 16:27:50 and no text equivalent 16:28:22 I simply refuse .doc attachments. I bounce them back and say "If you want me to read your message, you'll send it in a format anyone can read. Text works" 16:29:29 hope you never get a professor that says "sorry, guess you won't be taking that take-home test" 16:30:09 If I do, I'll take him to the University Provost. 16:31:13 NOBODY should be forced to something. 16:31:46 I've taken one professor to the Provost already, and I'll take another one if necessary. 16:31:53 wow 16:31:56 what did he/she do? 16:32:03 Unfair grading. 16:33:00 preferential treatment? 16:33:24 It was my "mega-lame" class over the summer. The professor was saying some very stupid things about web and databases, and sometimes I would throw a little comment here and there. And this irritated him immensely. 16:33:50 If I were to throw all the comments I wanted, he wouldn't even speak. It was only a few times, and very politely. 16:34:15 He docked 28 points out of my first midterm on a perfectly correct answer. 16:35:03 Funny thing is, I'm taking another class with him this semester, because I'm required to take that class and he's the only one who teaches it. 16:35:56 what fun! 16:36:19 I was _so_ pissed off. 16:36:30 Eventually I got 20 of those points back. 16:54:41 markd2 has quit 17:15:31 vinod has joined #openacs 17:23:10 Vinod!! 17:23:50 Hi vinod 17:25:32 howdy everyone! 17:26:43 * rbm beholds Vinod come back from the depths of oblivion 17:27:39 * vinod basks in oblivion, but slowly reluctantly makes his way out 17:28:00 heheh 17:28:02 my ISP is limiting me to 5 hrs/day 17:28:10 WHA? why? 17:28:30 YUMMY! 17:28:30 it's a free perk that i get through my medical society, but they're starting to limit the hrs 17:28:38 davb: cool! 17:30:01 rbm: how's school, work, etc.? 17:30:16 WTH is safari? 17:30:23 Online books. 17:30:29 vinod: Busy, very busy as usual. 17:30:53 Oreilly teamed up with Addison Wesley Professional, New Riders, Prentice Hall PTR, Peachpit Press, Adobe Press, and Macromedia Press. 17:30:54 School and work are not what have kept me busy, but the gestapo^H^H^H^H^H^HINS 17:32:04 oh no... sorry to hear that. 17:36:22 hey 17:46:32 * rbm heads to class, very hungry for he has eaten nothing yet 18:02:10 vinod has quit 18:06:34 bartt has joined #openacs 18:41:55 talli has joined #openacs 18:42:06 hey guys 18:51:00 hi 18:58:52 markd2 has joined #openacs 19:02:19 is rbm here? 19:02:31 I think he is at a class 19:02:36 ah, ok 19:02:46 thanks 19:03:24 yanni has joined #openacs 19:03:28 np 19:04:05 yanni! I love your music!! 19:04:06 * markd2 swoons 19:05:36 ha ha. Sorry, I'm not that Yanni 19:11:04 * markd2 is bummed 19:18:23 http://www.webmasterbase.com/article/529 19:18:23 C: http://www.webmasterbase.com/article/529 from davb 19:18:45 C:|Migrate your site from MySQL to PostgreSQL\ 19:18:45 titled item C 19:19:03 BLURB: XML is cool...Very interesting 19:19:03 D: XML is cool...Very interesting from Psychephylax 19:19:26 talli has quit 19:19:35 http://www.jedit.org 19:19:35 E: http://www.jedit.org from Psychephylax 19:20:10 E:| An editor written in Java similar to XEmacs 19:20:10 titled item E 19:20:15 E: Very nicely done 19:20:15 commented item E 19:21:49 vinod has joined #openacs 19:22:46 jerryasher has joined #openacs 19:22:59 :) 19:27:01 jEDIT! 19:36:44 http://techdocs.postgresql.org/ 19:36:44 F: http://techdocs.postgresql.org/ from davb 19:36:57 F:|PostgreSQL Non-FAQ Documentation 19:36:57 titled item F 19:37:35 F: great PostgreSQL resource I never knew existed 19:37:35 commented item F 19:39:17 cool! 19:39:42 it looks pretty active, too 19:43:32 :/ 19:43:38 * Psychephylax gives vinod popcorn 19:45:03 So vinod, I hear you are working on the docs 19:45:06 :) 19:46:07 mmm... popcorn 19:46:11 davb: yeah, i guess so 19:46:20 serves me right for saying hi to rbm :-) 19:46:29 markd2: more theories for that paper "People often learn more by talking to each other about a game than playing the game itself. The community is what snow balls and creates success. " 19:47:23 wow, i leave for a while and you guys start doing heavy duty sociological research 19:48:18 We just noticed that 99% of the time someone asks a question, then they figure it out for themselves. 19:49:13 that's true 19:49:53 davb: heh 19:49:57 it's often the formal description of the question that provides the answer. 19:50:19 alot of times, i'm butting my head against something and i decide to post a question 19:50:51 once i formulate the question that i want to ask formally, i realize that i know the answer (or at least a place to look for it that i wasn't looking before) 19:52:13 (do i get to be listed as an author on the paper now?) 19:52:51 Sure you can have the whole thing. 19:53:02 haha 19:53:33 now, we just gotta find some sucker to write it... where's talli? 20:23:34 ah, time to go. See you all later 20:24:02 davb has quit 20:50:37 moo 20:50:53 techdocs is great 20:51:43 pretty deep stuff in the channel lately :)\ 20:55:19 vinod has quit 20:58:43 * rbm upgrades his work box 20:58:58 (apt-get upgrade that is) 21:09:48 Anyone here ever use FORTRAN? 21:11:38 I saw it in my Programming Languages class, but never did anything with it. 21:12:51 yep. I've used it 21:12:55 * markd2 is an old fogie 21:12:55 Well, you know it was punch card oriented, right? 21:13:02 * jerryasher me2 21:13:14 Mark, do you remember what column 72 was for> 21:13:16 ? 21:13:23 that was the end of the usable space 21:13:27 after that wasn't touched by the compiler 21:13:37 although you could put a sequence number there to be used by a punch card sorter 21:13:40 in case you dropped your deck 21:13:51 modern fortran compilers can be told to use that space for code 21:14:00 since it's not needed with these new-fangled CRT things :-) 21:14:02 I've been grossed out over the years by ACS code that continues to column 9000 21:14:10 yeah 21:14:29 And I have a nice little color inkjet that in 2-up mode wraps at column 74. 21:14:35 I like narrow windows, two side-by-side 21:14:42 and huge wrapped lines of code are a PITA 21:14:56 And emacs very nicely color codes my tcl 21:15:18 So I've a wrapping style using slashes (or backslashes I never can remember) 21:15:36 that lines up all the backslashes (or slashes) in column 73. 21:15:58 Visually, I find it much nicer. But it takes me back about twenty years. 21:16:20 I usually go up to column 70-75 21:16:28