IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:32:53 [loggy]
loggy has joined #openacs
00:32:53 [asimov.openprojects.net]
topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS helpline http://openacs.org
00:32:53 [asimov.openprojects.net]
Users on #openacs: loggy markd2 docwolf abbaJ rbm shagster davb Psychephylax AaronSw chump
00:32:53 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
00:33:21 [markd2]
markd2 is now known as laggy
00:33:23 [laggy]
* laggy is lagging
00:33:26 [laggy]
laggy is now known as markd2
01:10:39 [vinod]
vinod has joined #openacs
01:15:59 [markd2]
yo
01:16:04 [markd2]
* markd2 waits for bread to rise
01:17:28 [vinod]
wow, you make your own bread too? a true renaissance man...
01:22:51 [markd2]
first time in about 3-4 years :-)
01:22:54 [markd2]
got the urge tonight
01:22:59 [markd2]
it'll probably be a hocky puck
01:23:35 [vinod]
mmmm... hockey pucks...
01:24:55 [vinod]
brb. a patient just came in
01:30:49 [davb]
markd2: use the bread machine.....
01:31:04 [davb]
a miracle of modern technology!
01:34:36 [markd2]
that's no fun, though
01:34:45 [markd2]
besides, I must prepare for the eventual collpase of civilization
01:36:33 [davb]
Yahoo store is EVIL!
01:36:48 [davb]
Every keyword has to be edited with a web form.
01:37:35 [davb]
hey, its money anyway.
01:47:39 [vinod]
* vinod is basking in MIT's bandwidth
01:48:18 [vinod]
my home ISP is limiting me to 5 hrs/day :-(
01:48:58 [markd2]
lame!
01:49:28 [vinod]
yeah, i suppose i should step up and actually start paying for internet service (i get it free from my medical society)
01:49:59 [docwolf]
yo
01:50:13 [vinod]
hey adam!
01:50:14 [markd2]
Yo Doctroid
01:50:24 [docwolf]
how goes it, guys?
01:50:36 [markd2]
it goes OK
01:50:40 [vinod]
good, just waitin for marks bread to rise
01:51:07 [docwolf]
making bread is a black art
01:51:23 [docwolf]
i can never do it properly.
01:51:26 [vinod]
mark knows a lot of black arts
01:51:29 [vinod]
breadmaking
01:51:30 [vinod]
oracle
01:51:46 [davb]
heh!
01:52:20 [davb]
We need to start an OpenACS foundation so we can buy vinod some connectivity. :)
01:52:39 [vinod]
haha - yeah, i'll chip in for a good cause like that :-)
01:53:10 [docwolf]
ugh. i tried living without DSL for a couple of weeks
01:53:16 [docwolf]
and it was horrendous
01:53:30 [docwolf]
i felt like i was back with my VIC20.
01:53:49 [vinod]
uhoh - i see a nostalgia-fest coming :-)
01:54:11 [vinod]
the vic20 was awesome. until my cousin got a commodore64
01:54:35 [docwolf]
vic20 rocked the mic
01:54:41 [docwolf]
except it ran really hot
01:55:42 [markd2]
hot hot hot
01:55:49 [markd2]
* markd2 was an Apple ][ guy
01:55:53 [davb]
* davb learned BASIC on the Vic20
01:56:04 [markd2]
I picked up a mac emulator a couple of years ago
01:56:07 [vinod]
i had the apple iie - learned basic on it
01:56:13 [markd2]
it's frightening how quickly that stuff came back to me
01:56:17 [docwolf]
pr#6
01:56:20 [vinod]
haha
01:56:21 [docwolf]
3d0g
01:56:24 [markd2]
call -151
01:56:26 [docwolf]
:-)
01:56:33 [vinod]
remember 'locksmith'
01:56:34 [markd2]
print char$(4); "open door"
01:56:46 [davb]
markd2: though you had recycled those brain cells huh?
01:56:48 [docwolf]
locksmit was hot
01:56:52 [docwolf]
copy II+
01:56:56 [markd2]
I had a bootleg copy of them
01:56:58 [docwolf]
really took things to the next level
01:56:58 [markd2]
kind of ironic
01:57:09 [vinod]
haha
01:57:15 [markd2]
I did a little boot code tracing
01:57:22 [vinod]
really?
01:57:26 [docwolf]
the atarisoft games
01:57:26 [vinod]
what was your hacker name?
01:57:29 [markd2]
I think my finest hour was doing a program for my dad
01:57:32 [docwolf]
were always the easiest to crack
01:57:35 [markd2]
it was embarassing
01:57:43 [markd2]
I used three floppy drives
01:57:49 [markd2]
one for programs, one for data, and one for swap
01:57:57 [markd2]
using probably the slowest sorting algorithm known
01:58:03 [markd2]
it literally would run for hours sorting data
01:58:04 [docwolf]
(markd could have used a Cider 5Meg drive
01:58:09 [markd2]
it got better
01:58:16 [markd2]
I got a //e with 128K
01:58:21 [markd2]
so I used the BeagleBros RAMDisk
01:58:28 [vinod]
nice
01:58:29 [markd2]
sped it up many orders of magnitude
01:58:34 [docwolf]
i can top it...
01:58:37 [markd2]
heh
01:58:38 [docwolf]
toward the end
01:58:43 [docwolf]
I got an Applied Engineering
01:58:45 [docwolf]
RAMCharger
01:58:49 [vinod]
me too!
01:58:52 [markd2]
ooooh
01:58:53 [docwolf]
which was this 1 meg of ram
01:58:56 [markd2]
wow!
01:58:56 [docwolf]
with battery-backup
01:58:59 [docwolf]
it was ridiculous
01:59:07 [docwolf]
that was a cool company
01:59:07 [davb]
apple nerds...
01:59:17 [markd2]
I programmed Fortran on the ][+
01:59:22 [markd2]
in the UCSD Pascal environment
01:59:23 [docwolf]
the horror!
01:59:30 [markd2]
that was the sickest thing I ever did
01:59:42 [docwolf]
IIRC
01:59:47 [docwolf]
SirTech used the UCSD environment
01:59:48 [markd2]
well, at least until I got Oracle running on Suse x86 linux running on Virtual PC on a Mac
01:59:50 [docwolf]
for its epic games
01:59:53 [docwolf]
rescue raiders
01:59:55 [docwolf]
and wizardry
01:59:57 [davb]
markd has obviously never built a yahoo store...
01:59:59 [markd2]
Wizardry!
02:00:07 [markd2]
yahoo store just sounds painful
02:00:39 [markd2]
I spent *too* many hours with wizardry
02:00:41 [davb]
yeah true...
02:00:54 [docwolf]
i gave up after the Knight of Diamonds
02:00:59 [docwolf]
the mazes were getting too damn bifg
02:01:00 [docwolf]
big
02:01:39 [docwolf]
(just like i gave up after Ultima IV... the games were taking too long to play)
02:01:46 [markd2]
yeah
02:01:53 [markd2]
That was the one where you could go to the planets, right?
02:02:01 [docwolf]
Ultima IV was "The Avatar"
02:02:03 [markd2]
"HardCore" had a program that would print out the maps
02:02:11 [markd2]
might have been Ultima III
02:02:14 [markd2]
the one with the MoonGates
02:02:14 [docwolf]
it was probably the pinnacle of adventure games
02:02:18 [docwolf]
Ultima III
02:02:18 [docwolf]
right --
02:02:22 [docwolf]
where you get flushed down the toilet
02:02:25 [docwolf]
to the parallel universe
02:02:31 [markd2]
*floosh*
02:02:36 [markd2]
Ever play Time Zone?
02:02:43 [docwolf]
unfortunately, yes.
02:02:48 [markd2]
heh
02:02:51 [docwolf]
my favorite game of that era though
02:02:55 [docwolf]
was SunDog
02:03:00 [docwolf]
i still sometimes fire it up
02:03:08 [markd2]
I was way too young to grok TimeZone, so I barely got into it
02:03:16 [markd2]
I'm still addicted to Taipan
02:03:20 [docwolf]
:-)
02:03:36 [docwolf]
the other badass game
02:03:41 [docwolf]
that was never done well elsewhere
02:03:43 [docwolf]
was Autoduel
02:03:50 [docwolf]
i'm sort of surprised they never did a remake
02:04:55 [markd2]
you might enjoy this: http://classicgaming.com/rotw/autoduel/
02:05:17 [docwolf]
ack
02:05:19 [docwolf]
my youth
02:05:24 [markd2]
heh
02:05:24 [docwolf]
flashing before my eyes
02:05:39 [markd2]
Three Mile Island is another I revisit pretty often
02:05:41 [vinod]
taipan!
02:05:57 [vinod]
did you use the elder brother wu trick in taipan?
02:06:15 [vinod]
(sorry just catching up on the log - damn patients!)
02:06:24 [strainmaker]
strainmaker has joined #openacs
02:07:31 [markd2]
where you overpaid your loan and got "negative" interest?
02:07:40 [vinod]
yeah!
02:07:45 [docwolf]
ha
02:07:57 [markd2]
kept playing until we overflowed the integer
02:08:02 [vinod]
haha
02:08:11 [vinod]
i've seen taipan for the palm
02:08:12 [markd2]
I've hacked 'dopewars' so you can keep playing indefinitely
02:08:18 [markd2]
not quite taipan, but close enough
02:08:42 [docwolf]
yeah, dopewars is the modern taipan successor
02:08:47 [docwolf]
everyone plays that freaking game
02:09:03 [markd2]
I need to make it support 64 bit integers
02:09:10 [markd2]
I keep overflowing the 32 bit ones
02:09:37 [docwolf]
it is amazing how bad most modern games are
02:09:44 [docwolf]
all FPS, all the time
02:09:47 [markd2]
yep
02:10:00 [markd2]
and what's really sad are the "most influential computer games" articles you see float by on slashdot
02:10:08 [markd2]
which only consider games from 1995 on
02:10:10 [docwolf]
yeah
02:10:11 [docwolf]
like
02:10:15 [markd2]
bastards
02:10:22 [docwolf]
i was playing scorched earth a few weeks ago
02:10:26 [docwolf]
with a couple of friends
02:10:33 [docwolf]
it has to be the most primitive game ever
02:10:38 [docwolf]
but it's a total blast
02:10:50 [markd2]
something to be said about simplicity
02:10:52 [docwolf]
i guess when the shareware model disappeared
02:10:58 [markd2]
although I have been enjoying Black & White off and on
02:11:00 [docwolf]
no one really cared about making those kind of games
02:11:09 [docwolf]
my machine isn't fast enough ;-)
02:11:20 [markd2]
Mine barely qualifies
02:11:26 [markd2]
PII 350
02:11:32 [markd2]
alas B&W can't take advantage of the second processor
02:11:43 [docwolf]
the other thing is
02:11:44 [docwolf]
most games today
02:11:49 [docwolf]
need like a $400 video card
02:12:02 [markd2]
yeah
02:12:21 [davb]
Nah. I have a RIVA TNT 16meg card and it plays fine.
02:12:46 [davb]
Most FPS suck, but Half-Life is like playing a movie.
02:12:48 [docwolf]
it depends on the type of game, unfortunately..
02:12:52 [docwolf]
half life is incredible
02:12:56 [docwolf]
it's the only FPS i can stand
02:13:00 [markd2]
FPS and most 3-D games make me motionsick
02:13:03 [docwolf]
and the graphics aren't that great
02:13:05 [davb]
I mostly just play CRPGs
02:13:09 [docwolf]
(which should tell the manufacturers something..)
02:13:31 [markd2]
I've got Oni on my mac
02:13:37 [markd2]
I can only play it for 15-20 minutes before I get queasy
02:13:47 [vinod]
i haven't heard of any of these
02:14:02 [davb]
Vampire Masquerade was really cool. You can script it in Java. It is the original reason I planned on learning it.
02:14:05 [docwolf]
vinod --
02:14:08 [docwolf]
half life is superior
02:14:13 [docwolf]
"if you can play only 1 FPS..."
02:14:17 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has quit
02:14:17 [markd2]
he doesn't get out much
02:14:21 [markd2]
or maybe he gets out too much
02:14:24 [docwolf]
heh
02:14:35 [docwolf]
half-life is like playing a novel
02:14:36 [vinod]
haha - one of those - i'm not telling you which
02:14:38 [docwolf]
if that makes sense
02:14:50 [vinod]
ok, on that rec, i'm gonna have to get it
02:14:53 [davb]
its the same feeling. Totally immersive.
02:14:55 [vinod]
do i need windows?
02:15:35 [davb]
When Neverwinter Nights comes out (RPG) I will never need to boot to windows. Its supposed to run on Linux, Windows and BeOS
02:15:35 [docwolf]
i think so
02:15:37 [markd2]
vinod: http://www.bungie.com/products/oni/oni.htm
02:15:47 [docwolf]
i don't think they never made a linux port of half-life
02:16:53 [docwolf]
Oni looks like anime
02:17:09 [markd2]
heavily inspired by
02:17:20 [markd2]
like playing inside an anime kung-fu movie
02:17:25 [markd2]
but without the tentacle monsters
02:17:29 [docwolf]
heh
02:17:32 [markd2]
(at least I haven't seen any)
02:17:34 [docwolf]
is there a shower scene?
02:17:37 [davb]
they are in half-life
02:17:39 [docwolf]
(all good anime has a shower scene)
02:17:45 [markd2]
not yet
02:17:49 [markd2]
only about half-way through
02:17:52 [vinod]
huh, tried the buy link for oni and it says 'file not found'
02:17:58 [markd2]
heh
02:17:59 [davb]
oops
02:18:08 [markd2]
Bungie did get bought by MS
02:18:12 [docwolf]
ugh
02:18:36 [docwolf]
what ever happened to the days of the independent SW house?
02:18:43 [markd2]
Halo is supposedly one of the Anchor Games for the XBox
02:18:55 [docwolf]
Sir-Tech was located in like... Ogdensberg, NY. Which is.... precisely the middle of nowhere
02:19:04 [docwolf]
they understood the middle ages, b/c they were living in it...
02:19:09 [markd2]
Ever play M.u.l.e?
02:19:21 [markd2]
I knew the guys at Ozark Softscape
02:19:22 [docwolf]
yeah, written by that gender-bending dude
02:19:33 [markd2]
I new Dani when she was still Dan
02:19:36 [docwolf]
wow
02:19:37 [docwolf]
!
02:19:54 [docwolf]
"Ozark"
02:19:57 [docwolf]
where were they?
02:19:58 [davb]
docwolf: yep it is. They were cool. My wife called them and they gave her hints for Star Trail
02:20:01 [markd2]
Arkansas
02:20:07 [davb]
(SirTech)
02:20:10 [markd2]
got to beta test their africa-based sequal to Seven Cities of Gold
02:20:15 [markd2]
Little Rock, in fact
02:20:15 [docwolf]
sweet
02:20:31 [docwolf]
the sirtech guys were the best
02:20:56 [docwolf]
i'd worn my wizardry disks out
02:21:01 [docwolf]
and they actually sent me a replacement
02:21:03 [docwolf]
which was weird
02:21:07 [markd2]
wow
02:21:15 [markd2]
I wore the labels off of mine, but not the surface
02:21:18 [docwolf]
heh
02:21:21 [docwolf]
the gold labels
02:21:28 [markd2]
yep!
02:21:58 [docwolf]
i still contend
02:22:03 [docwolf]
that the reason games suck so hard
02:22:08 [docwolf]
is b/c the hardware is changing too rapidly
02:22:16 [docwolf]
look at how good the apple II games got toward the end
02:22:30 [docwolf]
consider where they started (Lemonade stand, etc..)
02:22:39 [markd2]
Lemonade Stand!!
02:22:44 [markd2]
And Star Trek in integer basic
02:22:50 [docwolf]
rotfl
02:22:55 [vinod]
lemonade stand!
02:23:09 [markd2]
markd2 has changed the topic to: Welcome to the OpenACS helpline http://openacs.org. Lemonade Stand!!!
02:23:16 [vinod]
lol
02:23:16 [docwolf]
haha
02:23:36 [docwolf]
it is insane though
02:23:42 [docwolf]
how good the apple II software got
02:23:44 [docwolf]
toward the end
02:23:47 [docwolf]
remember multiscribe?
02:23:49 [markd2]
We should write a FPS lemonade stand
02:23:54 [vinod]
haha
02:23:58 [vinod]
i'm in!
02:24:09 [markd2]
I was an AppleWriter freak myself
02:24:20 [docwolf]
heh
02:24:26 [docwolf]
multiscribe still sticks in my mind
02:24:34 [docwolf]
b/c it was WYSIWYG
02:24:36 [markd2]
word processor?
02:24:37 [docwolf]
and ran in like 64k
02:24:41 [docwolf]
yeah..
02:24:46 [markd2]
wow
02:24:47 [docwolf]
let's see if i can find a web page (!)
02:26:04 [davb]
how about the lemonade stand module for OpenACS?
02:27:03 [vinod]
Lemonade Resource Management (TM)
02:27:23 [docwolf]
this is not happening
02:27:26 [markd2]
Industry Standard LRM-XML Comaptibility Interface
02:27:27 [docwolf]
http://www.a2central.com/reviews/lemonade/index.html
02:27:27 [chump]
E: http://www.a2central.com/reviews/lemonade/index.html from docwolf
02:27:36 [docwolf]
oops.. the logger just caught a real prize
02:27:40 [vinod]
markd2: haha
02:27:56 [docwolf]
this is surreal
02:28:02 [docwolf]
a _review_ of lemonade stand
02:28:13 [docwolf]
that's like reviewing lunar lander
02:28:16 [vinod]
haha
02:29:23 [markd2]
lame. It's not the Real Lemonade
02:29:26 [markd2]
a rewrite
02:29:52 [docwolf]
booo
02:29:59 [docwolf]
i think i have the real lemonade stand here
02:30:02 [docwolf]
i downloaded
02:30:06 [docwolf]
like 10,000 apple roms
02:30:15 [markd2]
whoa
02:30:16 [docwolf]
i've never looked at most of them
02:30:17 [markd2]
I've only got about a dozen
02:30:22 [docwolf]
i should probably set up an FTP site
02:30:28 [markd2]
yes!
02:30:32 [markd2]
I can mirror it
02:30:37 [docwolf]
let me dig it out
02:30:48 [markd2]
I think the main image site has been taken down
02:30:56 [docwolf]
asimov.. yeah
02:30:59 [docwolf]
it goes up and down
02:31:01 [docwolf]
so one day
02:31:05 [docwolf]
i just did a Power Download
02:31:10 [docwolf]
for a rainy day.
02:31:34 [docwolf]
heh
02:31:53 [docwolf]
i even got appleworks
02:31:58 [docwolf]
go figure ;-)
02:32:09 [markd2]
I'm wanting "Oddesy, the Compeat Apventure"
02:33:05 [docwolf]
heh
02:33:29 [docwolf]
i know you won't believe it
02:33:36 [docwolf]
but i think i just found it
02:33:45 [markd2]
whoa
02:33:48 [davb]
Apple should ship the whole lot with an emulator with OS X
02:33:54 [docwolf]
that would be _sweet_
02:34:01 [markd2]
aye
02:34:33 [docwolf]
i've got to set up an apple II emu just to see if any of this junk works
02:34:40 [davb]
except MS probably has a patent on shippinh obselete software. Wouldn;t want anyone stealing their business model
02:35:05 [docwolf]
"tass times in tonetown" good lord
02:35:21 [docwolf]
"invasion USA"
02:35:25 [docwolf]
no wonder my HD is full
02:36:20 [davb]
davb has quit
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chump has quit
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davb has joined #OpenACS
02:37:21 [docwolf]
oh man
02:37:22 [chump]
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02:37:28 [docwolf]
this emu is faithful... the disks are slow as can be
02:38:45 [markd2]
heh
02:38:58 [markd2]
I giggled when I heard the familiar "beep" when my emu started
02:39:04 [markd2]
* markd2 is easily amused
02:39:28 [vinod]
no wonder you're always laughing at my jokes
02:39:29 [docwolf]
what emu do you use?
02:39:32 [docwolf]
i'm using Oasis
02:39:40 [markd2]
I'm in mac-land
02:39:44 [markd2]
something called "Stop the Madness"
02:39:50 [docwolf]
heh
02:43:11 [docwolf]
bilestoad works. I can die happy.
02:45:30 [markd2]
I never could get my folks to get that
02:46:20 [docwolf]
http://www.wolfwater.com/lemonade_stand.dsk.gz
02:46:20 [chump]
F: http://www.wolfwater.com/lemonade_stand.dsk.gz from docwolf
02:46:22 [docwolf]
enjoy
02:46:58 [markd2]
thanks
02:47:00 [davb]
doc, you want me to expunge that from the public record?
02:47:05 [markd2]
wouldn't happen to have Oddysey there?
02:47:10 [docwolf]
let's see..
02:47:21 [docwolf]
i don't think i'm violating copyright law
02:47:24 [docwolf]
because lemonade stand
02:47:26 [davb]
ok
02:47:27 [docwolf]
is like 75 years old
02:47:31 [docwolf]
:-)
02:47:35 [davb]
heh
02:49:18 [docwolf]
anyway
02:49:26 [docwolf]
if i violated Mr. Lemonade Stand's copyright
02:49:31 [docwolf]
"i apologize" :-)
02:49:35 [docwolf]
but whoever that dude is..
02:49:42 [docwolf]
he helped me learn to program
02:49:47 [docwolf]
my hats off to him.
02:49:58 [vinod]
all hail Mr. Lemonade Stand
02:50:02 [docwolf]
i wonder how many people got their first exposure to programming
02:50:06 [docwolf]
by looking at those basic games
02:50:12 [vinod]
* vinod raises his hand
02:50:19 [docwolf]
.. or typing them in from Compute magazine..
02:50:19 [markd2]
yep!
02:50:23 [markd2]
yep!
02:50:38 [davb]
me too
02:51:20 [vinod]
wasn't there a magazine Incider? or something like that?
02:51:28 [markd2]
yeah. It was kind of lame
02:51:33 [markd2]
Softalk Ruled
02:52:07 [vinod]
that was the one with the floppies, right?
02:52:09 [markd2]
in its heyday, it had technical articles about Z80 cards, Bill Budge had a graphics column, Apple /// programming
02:52:24 [docwolf]
docwolf has quit
02:52:45 [davb]
WOW. They got him already!
02:53:03 [docwolf]
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02:57:09 [markd2]
http://woz.org/
02:57:09 [chump]
G: http://woz.org/ from markd2
02:57:18 [markd2]
G:| Home of The Woz
02:57:18 [chump]
titled item G
02:57:37 [docwolf]
woz kicks ass
02:57:45 [vinod]
he's still active on the powerbook listserv
02:57:50 [docwolf]
really?!
02:58:06 [vinod]
yeah - it's sweet to see him answer some mundane question about a PB
02:58:18 [docwolf]
it's sort of crazy to think
02:58:19 [markd2]
wow!
02:58:21 [docwolf]
that he essentially
02:58:24 [docwolf]
built all of the apple II
02:58:25 [docwolf]
himself
02:58:32 [markd2]
IWM
02:58:39 [markd2]
a friend of mine had his ][ motherboard framed
02:58:43 [markd2]
wished i had hung on to mine :-(
02:58:47 [docwolf]
me too :-(
02:59:32 [vinod]
my apple IIe is still sitting at home
02:59:47 [docwolf]
the only interesting objects i still have
02:59:53 [docwolf]
are a 2600 and a 7800
03:00:00 [vinod]
atari?
03:00:03 [docwolf]
yep
03:00:14 [vinod]
the 2600 was a staple in our neighborhood
03:00:19 [vinod]
everyone had one but me
03:00:26 [markd2]
I had no friends
03:00:29 [markd2]
just people who taunted me
03:00:30 [docwolf]
d'oh
03:00:34 [markd2]
and they all had 2600s
03:00:41 [vinod]
haha - you woulda been cool in my neighborhood :-)
03:00:55 [docwolf]
i was uber-leet.. with the ColecoVision
03:00:59 [docwolf]
with the Rocky Boxing controllers
03:01:03 [vinod]
coleco!
03:01:21 [vinod]
one of my friends had intellivision, with the overlays over the buttons
03:01:40 [docwolf]
intellivision was really interesting
03:01:43 [docwolf]
those controllers
03:01:44 [docwolf]
ugh
03:01:56 [markd2]
double-ugh
03:01:57 [vinod]
agreed
03:02:06 [vinod]
i mean ... triple-ugh
03:02:11 [docwolf]
i wonder
03:02:14 [docwolf]
if we're about to head into a
03:02:17 [docwolf]
1983-like crash
03:02:20 [docwolf]
for video games
03:02:27 [docwolf]
with all the new consoles
03:02:29 [docwolf]
crappy games
03:02:29 [docwolf]
etc
03:02:52 [markd2]
yeah
03:03:02 [markd2]
I played a lot of Road Rash on a cow-orkers' 3D0 he had at the office
03:03:12 [docwolf]
3do! he must have been loaded
03:03:18 [docwolf]
that was almost as leet as NeoGeo
03:03:33 [docwolf]
which essentially told everyone "I am a trust fund baby"
03:03:34 [docwolf]
or
03:03:43 [docwolf]
"I run a massive drug empire"
03:04:14 [docwolf]
the $800 price tag was breathtaking.
03:04:48 [markd2]
heh
03:05:10 [docwolf]
hmm
03:05:19 [docwolf]
looks like MS is going to get away with this software rental crap
03:08:37 [markd2]
sigh
03:08:52 [docwolf]
when did this industry cease being fun?
03:08:59 [markd2]
1995ish
03:09:03 [docwolf]
yeah
03:09:12 [docwolf]
around Win95
03:09:33 [davb]
I'm having fun.
03:09:51 [docwolf]
individual projects can be entertaining
03:09:53 [vinod]
me too, just not gettin pain :-)
03:09:54 [docwolf]
but i don't think
03:10:01 [docwolf]
i've seen anything "exciting"
03:10:01 [vinod]
s/pain/paid
03:10:04 [docwolf]
in at least 5 years
03:10:14 [docwolf]
doom was probably the last "holy shit"
03:10:17 [docwolf]
moment i've had
03:11:04 [davb]
Well I haven't actually worked on software except the last year, so its all new to me.
03:11:13 [vinod]
linux was a "holy shit" moment for me, and so was ACS, but more because of their freedom than their "holy-shitness"
03:11:19 [davb]
and yeah the only thing I am getting paid for is the yahoo store.
03:11:32 [davb]
vinod: that's right.
03:12:24 [markd2]
I think I lost it when the startup I worked for went under
03:12:40 [davb]
that can be unfun.
03:14:00 [docwolf]
yeah, ACS wasn't really a "holy shitter" it was really more of a convenient alternative
03:14:24 [markd2]
I saw it evolve:-)
03:14:29 [docwolf]
doom was more like "how did 3 guys do that?"
03:14:40 [markd2]
early ACS was more like "how did Alex do that?"
03:14:44 [docwolf]
rotfl
03:14:51 [davb]
heh
03:15:20 [docwolf]
i guess working with bbs software for so long
03:15:27 [docwolf]
ACS didn't seem like anything earthshattering
03:15:53 [docwolf]
the fact that it was free was the earhshattering part
03:15:58 [davb]
Its just the scale, you know, the whole world.
03:16:04 [docwolf]
yep
03:16:05 [markd2]
after 3 years at AOL, things were much smaller (and saner!) scale
03:16:26 [markd2]
I'm happy that the higest traffic sites here are like 8-10 hit/sec
03:16:33 [markd2]
rather than a bank of a dozen machines each going at 400/sec
03:16:44 [markd2]
when webservers fall over in that situation, Bad Things Happen
03:16:52 [vinod]
w o w
03:17:06 [docwolf]
yikes
03:17:07 [docwolf]
fortunately
03:17:08 [markd2]
what's really frightening is that the web site is small potatoes compared to the proprietary AOL infrastructure
03:17:16 [docwolf]
most of those people are trolling
03:17:18 [markd2]
(er, web side)
03:17:19 [docwolf]
for teenagers
03:17:24 [docwolf]
or pirated software
03:17:25 [docwolf]
so...
03:17:34 [markd2]
heh
03:17:38 [docwolf]
when it blows up, they can't complain
03:17:59 [markd2]
unfortunatley the main 400 hit/sec system was an ad server
03:18:07 [markd2]
so if it went down, $$$ was not being made
03:18:09 [docwolf]
ugh
03:18:11 [docwolf]
that does suck
03:18:43 [markd2]
the adserver module had a defect in it that would make a machine go down every couple of days
03:18:56 [markd2]
after a couple of months of dicking around, we finally got it fixed
03:19:14 [markd2]
unfortunately that painted aolserver with a bad reputation
03:23:25 [markd2]
wow. the bread turned out pretty well!
03:25:45 [davb]
cool, i mean warm.
03:27:18 [vinod]
mmmmm bread
03:30:17 [docwolf]
dudes
03:30:22 [docwolf]
want to contribute content to a site
03:30:25 [docwolf]
that Rolf and I built last night?
03:30:31 [markd2]
whoa
03:30:37 [markd2]
if Rolf's involved, it must be perverted
03:30:38 [docwolf]
this is the most pathetic story
03:30:54 [docwolf]
so.. rolf and I were chatting about nonsense as usual
03:30:59 [markd2]
heh
03:31:01 [docwolf]
I forwarded him a link
03:31:04 [docwolf]
to a discussion forum
03:31:08 [docwolf]
that was about the most trite crap
03:31:11 [docwolf]
that bizarrely
03:31:15 [docwolf]
descended into a flame war
03:31:19 [docwolf]
it was hysterical
03:31:21 [docwolf]
so...
03:31:25 [docwolf]
we set up a site
03:31:30 [docwolf]
called "Godwin's Waiting Room"
03:31:39 [markd2]
Godwin?
03:31:54 [docwolf]
"Godwin" refers to "Godwin's law.."
03:32:14 [docwolf]
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
03:32:21 [markd2]
ah
03:32:27 [docwolf]
so, at like 4 am
03:32:28 [vinod]
heh
03:32:30 [docwolf]
we quickly set up
03:32:32 [docwolf]
this stupid site
03:32:39 [markd2]
is he in Japan again?
03:32:42 [docwolf]
where people can submit the best/worst of humanity
03:32:49 [docwolf]
and other people can rate the stupidity
03:32:55 [markd2]
LOL
03:32:56 [docwolf]
rolf is back in japan.
03:32:56 [davb]
oh my
03:33:04 [docwolf]
the interface isn't done yet
03:33:06 [docwolf]
but it all works..
03:33:27 [docwolf]
(no dns yet, either.. maybe by tomorrow.)
03:33:29 [docwolf]
http://66.70.49.205/html/index.php
03:33:29 [chump]
H: http://66.70.49.205/html/index.php from docwolf
03:33:43 [docwolf]
it was really funny at 4am, at least..
03:34:01 [docwolf]
i'm looking to capture the horror of online humanity
03:34:27 [docwolf]
so, if you've got any good ones... please link 'em :-)
03:34:33 [markd2]
will do
03:34:38 [docwolf]
i'm looking for The Baccus Flame on the AOLserver mailing list
03:34:41 [markd2]
I think the #openacs wiki paranoia one would be good
03:34:47 [docwolf]
heh
03:34:57 [docwolf]
is the baccus flame archived online anywhere?
03:34:58 [markd2]
too bad I lost my Philip flame mail archive
03:35:08 [docwolf]
the "You Suck" missive?
03:35:45 [markd2]
oh please let me have saved my aolserver archive when misc.arsdigita.com went down...
03:36:15 [docwolf]
heh
03:36:20 [docwolf]
put it up, man
03:36:24 [markd2]
You're right, your open source process doesn't suck.
03:36:25 [markd2]
You suck.
03:36:30 [docwolf]
HA
03:37:27 [davb]
That was insane
03:37:28 [markd2]
copying to badgerphone now
03:37:32 [docwolf]
SWEET!
03:37:35 [davb]
It went on forever!
03:37:39 [docwolf]
it was awesome
03:37:42 [docwolf]
a tour de force
03:38:07 [docwolf]
Don is an interesting character himself
03:38:23 [docwolf]
any of you guys ever work with him in person?
03:38:28 [markd2]
Don? no
03:38:30 [vinod]
vinod has quit
03:38:36 [docwolf]
he is cool
03:38:39 [docwolf]
really forthright
03:38:43 [docwolf]
doesn't give a shit about anyone
03:38:51 [docwolf]
he structures his life
03:38:53 [docwolf]
so he can spend like
03:38:57 [docwolf]
6 months at a time
03:38:58 [docwolf]
in the woods
03:39:00 [docwolf]
watching birds
03:39:02 [markd2]
actually You suck came from Jerry Asher
03:39:15 [docwolf]
?
03:40:11 [markd2]
http://badgertronics.com/hacks/you-suck.txt
03:40:50 [docwolf]
whoa
03:40:54 [docwolf]
that's the beginning i guess
03:40:58 [markd2]
ah. found don's
03:41:00 [docwolf]
b/c the piece that I have
03:41:05 [docwolf]
is don's incredible spew
03:41:16 [docwolf]
I wondered how "Suck" got involved
03:41:19 [markd2]
updated
03:41:47 [markd2]
You suck.
03:41:48 [markd2]
in public, to anyone who would listen.
03:41:48 [markd2]
ArsDigita's moving to Apache for reasons which include the fact that ...
03:41:48 [markd2]
You suck.
03:41:49 [markd2]
etc
03:42:15 [docwolf]
excellent!
03:42:23 [docwolf]
the funniest part of this though
03:42:29 [docwolf]
is writing a description of the link
03:42:35 [docwolf]
... to try to give some context
03:42:42 [docwolf]
that this is about a frigging _webserver_
03:42:47 [docwolf]
like, total online insanity
03:44:01 [markd2]
lemme word-wrap Jerry's diatribe
03:44:24 [docwolf]
mark
03:44:28 [docwolf]
do you have any of the conversation
03:44:30 [docwolf]
leading up to this
03:44:34 [docwolf]
like, civil conversation
03:44:44 [markd2]
yep
03:44:48 [markd2]
it's all in listserv digests
03:44:56 [docwolf]
really? whoa
03:45:05 [docwolf]
aol didn't censor any of this, eh?
03:45:06 [docwolf]
:-)
03:45:38 [markd2]
my personal listserv digests
03:45:46 [markd2]
dunno if it's on the Official Archives
03:45:54 [markd2]
a lot of stuff led up to it
03:46:01 [davb]
Check this out for run (IE 5.5 only sorry!)
03:46:03 [markd2]
like that ill-fated 'scrap the mailing list newsgroups are the way to go)
03:46:04 [davb]
http://www.q42.nl/demos/
03:46:04 [chump]
I: http://www.q42.nl/demos/ from davb
03:46:25 [davb]
I:|Inter Client Communications - Quek
03:46:25 [chump]
titled item I
03:46:38 [davb]
I: Chat while you surf : demo
03:46:39 [chump]
commented item I
03:47:23 [davb]
Actuall the list is very good these days. Of course most of the answers come from non-AOL personnel.
03:47:24 [vinod]
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03:49:58 [markd2]
ok, filled in some of the backstory
03:50:07 [docwolf]
heh. cool.
03:50:48 [docwolf]
i'll post the link
03:50:48 [docwolf]
:-)
03:50:56 [docwolf]
i'm not sure if Rolf ever saw
03:51:00 [docwolf]
the baccus explosion
03:51:10 [markd2]
davb: looks like Virtual Places from ca 1996
03:55:00 [davb]
could be: i haven't tried it yet.
03:56:49 [vinod]
man. don can be really *clear* about his position on an issue, huh? :-)
03:56:56 [markd2]
wow. that skyscraper forum thing is amazing
03:57:44 [davb]
Technology is giving people more free time. Probably some people have too much!
04:00:14 [docwolf]
scary, right?
04:00:17 [docwolf]
the skyscraper one
04:00:21 [docwolf]
gave me the creeps
04:00:37 [docwolf]
supposedly "normal" people
04:00:43 [docwolf]
just going bananas on each other
04:00:51 [docwolf]
humanity is doomed.
04:01:38 [docwolf]
anyway, as i find more good ones
04:01:40 [vinod]
vinod has quit
04:01:41 [docwolf]
i'll throw them up ther
04:05:34 [markd2]
lemme know when you get dns for it
04:05:38 [markd2]
i'll put it on my blog
04:05:49 [markd2]
vinod might see it :-)
04:09:11 [markd2]
must sleep
04:09:13 [markd2]
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04:46:04 [davb]
davb has quit
04:57:03 [Psychephylax]
heh
04:57:04 [Psychephylax]
sleep
04:57:06 [Psychephylax]
sleep sounds good
12:33:44 [vinod]
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14:47:50 [docwolf]
yo
18:18:40 [rbm]
anyone here?
18:19:28 [rbm]
I thought all the oracle client libs came with the big tarball. But no.
18:19:32 [rbm]
* rbm scratches head
18:24:44 [davb]
hi.
18:25:09 [davb]
You mean with the actual Oracle distribution?
18:27:49 [davb]
http://newhome.weblogs.com/pingSiteForm
18:27:50 [chump]
A: http://newhome.weblogs.com/pingSiteForm from davb
18:28:02 [davb]
A:|HTTP GET form for Weblogs.com
18:28:02 [chump]
titled item A
18:28:12 [davb]
A: If you don't want to use SOAP or XML-RPC
18:28:12 [chump]
commented item A
19:03:44 [rbm]
davb: The download tarball for 8i
19:37:58 [abbaJ]
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19:40:41 [davb]
Interesting. Do they provide a SDK or something?
19:52:16 [ola]
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19:57:06 [davb]
Hello, ola
19:58:45 [ola]
hello dave.
20:10:18 [rbm]
davb: I couldn't find it at technet
20:10:44 [rbm]
This is sooo annoying. I'm trying to install Orasoft's SQLwork, but it needs the oracle libs.
20:12:40 [davb]
Orasoft does not give a hint as to where to find the libs?
20:14:34 [davb]
They are not part of the Oracle Install?
20:15:11 [rbm]
I can't find them.
20:15:40 [rbm]
I downloaded the whole thing, 550 Mbs or 8i enterprise edition, did a find for lib*.so, and didn't find libclntsh.so
20:16:12 [rbm]
mark made that lib available yesterday, and I downloaded it (don't know where he got it from though). Now sqlwork is asking for libwtc8.so
20:16:33 [rbm]
I think that's probably a GTK lib or something, but I don't know which package it belongs to
20:17:39 [rbm]
I have several other GTK apps working just fine on my machine
20:18:36 [davb]
I think you need to instal it hang on.
20:18:38 [davb]
Its oracle.
20:19:29 [davb]
It is in ora8/m01/app/oracle/8.1.7/lib/
20:20:50 [davb]
Apparently if you have oracle installed you can make those libs available to clients.
20:21:48 [rbm]
ack. You have to install it before the files appear to you?
20:21:55 [rbm]
That's so lame.
20:21:57 [rbm]
They're probably in a tarball.
20:22:08 [rbm]
(within the download tarball)
20:22:25 [rbm]
davb: Can you made that lib available for me to download it?
20:22:28 [davb]
It relinks EVERYTHING.
20:22:57 [davb]
so the .so's are not there until its installed.
20:24:01 [rbm]
* rbm wgets
20:26:41 [rbm]
Wow. I think it worked!
20:32:51 [chump]
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20:34:35 [rbm]
Oh yeah Baby!!!!!
20:34:50 [rbm]
Got it to work!
20:34:53 [rbm]
Thanks davb
20:36:02 [davb]
np
20:37:49 [rbm]
heheh
20:38:09 [rbm]
This sqlwork is much better than doing stuff with SQL*Plus
20:45:26 [davb]
Nifty.
20:48:32 [rbm]
It is indeed.
20:54:24 [davb]
Is this it? http://www.mattshouse.com/sqlwork/
20:54:41 [rbm]
Yep, that's it.
20:54:52 [rbm]
I usually go to oracle.mattshouse.com
20:56:24 [davb]
http://oracle.mattshouse.com
20:56:24 [chump]
B: http://oracle.mattshouse.com from davb
20:56:36 [davb]
B:|SQLWork and other Oracle stuff
20:56:36 [chump]
titled item B
20:57:01 [rbm]
B:Free Oracle tools for Linux/UNIX
20:57:01 [chump]
commented item B
20:57:50 [davb]
Aha, not thats the important information
20:57:56 [davb]
s/not/now
20:59:15 [rbm]
:)
21:13:23 [ola]
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21:25:45 [davb]
Hi markd2
21:29:00 [rbm]
hey wark
21:29:04 [rbm]
s/wark/mark/
21:31:02 [markd2]
hiya
21:31:10 [markd2]
* markd2 just submitted a link to Godwin's Room
21:31:23 [markd2]
* markd2 makes hairlip dog noises
21:31:25 [markd2]
wark! wark!
21:32:09 [rbm]
markd2: got sqlwork to work. It's sweet.
21:32:48 [markd2]
awesome
21:32:50 [markd2]
what's sqlwork?
21:34:18 [rbm]
oracle.mattshouse.com
21:34:42 [rbm]
It's something like Oracle enterprise Manager, but free and for Linux/Unix, using GTK
21:35:53 [markd2]
OEM comes with oracle/linux though, doesn't it?
21:36:02 [rbm]
* rbm shrughs
21:36:09 [markd2]
I don't like guis for db stuff anyway :-)
21:36:31 [rbm]
I don't either, but SQL*Plus sucks really bad.
21:37:08 [markd2]
the ad-hoc query thing of aolserver 2.X was kind of nice
21:40:22 [rbm]
yes it was. very.
21:46:28 [docwolf]
hi all
21:48:09 [davb]
hi docwolf
21:49:08 [docwolf]
how's it going?
21:54:59 [markd2]
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22:19:42 [davb]
well, not bad.
23:04:25 [docwolf]
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23:19:46 [lilo]
[GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back in a moment, after a bit of splitting. Thanks.
23:21:20 [ChanServ]
ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/
23:21:21 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
23:54:56 [Psychephylax]
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23:55:06 [Psychephylax]
:)
23:56:39 [davb]
hi