IRC log of openacs on 2001-10-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:07:14 [loggy]
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00:07:14 [niven.openprojects.net]
Users on #openacs: loggy davb markd2 rbm strainmaker abbaJ shagster AaronSw GEM Psychephylax chump
00:07:14 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
00:12:53 [Psychephylax]
hmmm
00:13:07 [Psychephylax]
Anyone know what a majority function with an even number of inputs looks like?
00:13:44 [markd2]
huh?
00:13:54 [Psychephylax]
uh huh!
00:13:56 [Psychephylax]
hehe
00:14:01 [Psychephylax]
A majority function
00:14:14 [markd2]
what's a majority function?
00:14:17 [Psychephylax]
Do you know what the truth table for one with an even number of inputs would look like
00:14:30 [Psychephylax]
if you have 3 inputs
00:14:42 [Psychephylax]
and there's 2 True then you don't care what the 3rd one is
00:18:00 [markd2]
I'd imagine that a maj func with even # of inputs could be ambiguous
00:19:08 [Psychephylax]
That's what I'm thining
00:22:36 [Psychephylax]
what about this
00:22:52 [Psychephylax]
since 2 and 2...there's not a majority then it's false
00:23:29 [markd2]
100% is a majoity
00:23:40 [Psychephylax]
51% is a majority
00:23:44 [Psychephylax]
50% is not a majority
00:23:59 [markd2]
when you say "2 and 2"
00:24:07 [markd2]
is that "two arguments, a 2 and a 2"?
00:24:07 [Psychephylax]
50% and 50%
00:24:15 [Psychephylax]
you have this:
00:24:16 [markd2]
ah
00:24:18 [Psychephylax]
T T T T
00:24:20 [Psychephylax]
T T T F
00:24:24 [Psychephylax]
T T F T
00:24:25 [Psychephylax]
...
00:24:32 [markd2]
yea, TTFF is ambiguous
00:24:37 [Psychephylax]
obviously those cases are all T
00:24:44 [markd2]
but I think returning false is wrong
00:24:51 [Psychephylax]
right, T F T F, F F T T, T T F F are ambiguous
00:25:02 [Psychephylax]
But it's not a majority
00:25:22 [markd2]
so, you're returning False, thereby implying that false is in the majority
00:25:37 [Psychephylax]
hmmm
00:25:51 [markd2]
can you use three-valued logic?
00:26:00 [Psychephylax]
no
00:26:01 [markd2]
truse/false/null :-)
00:26:12 [Psychephylax]
:)
00:29:07 [markd2]
or if you're in java/C++ land, true/false/exception
00:32:04 [Psychephylax]
heh
00:39:18 [Psychephylax]
gah
00:52:37 [Psychephylax]
well chi
00:52:38 [Psychephylax]
t
00:52:44 [markd2]
f
00:53:24 [Psychephylax]
bah
00:53:32 [Psychephylax]
It is not in the book or on google
00:54:31 [Psychephylax]
How am i supposed to do the prelab if this is not even on google
00:57:52 [markd2]
what class?
00:59:58 [Psychephylax]
Some bullchit engineering class that has no relevance to my coding abilities
01:07:07 [Psychephylax]
well
01:07:11 [Psychephylax]
I emailed the professor
01:18:50 [markd2]
hopefully this isn't due in the morning
01:31:05 [Psychephylax]
no it's due tomorrow at 7pm
01:31:20 [Psychephylax]
and my boss won't reply to my e-mail
01:31:33 [markd2]
maybe his hair needs sharpening
01:32:56 [Psychephylax]
maybe he's just trying to ignore it so I can come in to work tomorrow sick
01:33:01 [Psychephylax]
I hope I get him sick back
01:33:12 [markd2]
germ warfare :-)
01:33:46 [Psychephylax]
on a tiny scale
01:33:47 [Psychephylax]
yes
01:33:51 [Psychephylax]
one e-mail down
01:33:53 [Psychephylax]
one to go
01:34:02 [Psychephylax]
TTFF would go to 0
01:34:42 [Psychephylax]
now I can od the prelab
01:34:46 [Psychephylax]
at least part of it
01:35:57 [Psychephylax]
I wonder if my RF key will still work to get into the building
01:36:21 [Psychephylax]
my mom had the benefit of putting it through the laundry
01:36:47 [markd2]
probably
01:36:55 [Psychephylax]
i hope so
01:36:56 [Psychephylax]
lol
01:37:15 [markd2]
I've had all sorts of keys and badgers and whatnot in my career, and they stood up to incredible amounts of abuse
01:37:24 [Psychephylax]
badgers?
01:37:25 [Psychephylax]
rofl
01:37:34 [Psychephylax]
Mark had badgers in his pockets!
01:37:48 [Psychephylax]
So THAT's where my cookies go
01:40:22 [markd2]
heh
01:40:28 [markd2]
I'm armed and badgerous
01:42:17 [Psychephylax]
rofl
01:42:39 [Psychephylax]
I can't wait to see Undeclared
01:42:49 [Psychephylax]
from commercials it looks just like college
01:44:40 [markd2]
the tv here isn't hooked up anything
01:44:42 [markd2]
WHat's Undeclared?
01:46:15 [Psychephylax]
It's supposed to be a "real" look at college
01:46:57 [Psychephylax]
You know
01:47:20 [Psychephylax]
they don't actually have to add too many jokes to what college life really is like
01:47:23 [Psychephylax]
it's already funny
01:47:29 [markd2]
yeah
01:47:44 [markd2]
off to get some sleep before tomorrow's toil-fest
01:48:07 [Psychephylax]
heh
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12:05:10 [Psychephylax]
yay
12:05:13 [Psychephylax]
I'm staying home
12:05:49 [PascalS]
eh?
12:07:45 [Psychephylax]
i got sick
12:07:52 [Psychephylax]
and my boss finally replied
12:08:16 [PascalS]
U in the US?
12:09:02 [Psychephylax]
yes
12:09:21 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax goes back to bed
12:09:33 [PascalS]
Ah, that explains it then :) When I get sick I just call to say I'm sick and that's it, basically.
12:10:18 [PascalS]
* PascalS wishes Psycho to get well soon.
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13:03:22 [davb]
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13:03:26 [davb]
Hi
13:03:36 [PascalS]
hi
13:12:54 [AaronSw]
hi
13:53:59 [davb]
What is the best way to compare two documents, say XML files using AOLserver?
13:54:22 [PascalS]
text or content?
13:54:30 [PascalS]
I mean tag content?
13:55:01 [PascalS]
XML files can be logically the same, but have different whitespace, ordering, etc.
13:55:05 [davb]
The whole thing I guess. I want to see if a file has changed. I don't necessarily care what the difference is.
13:55:07 [davb]
Aha.
13:55:16 [PascalS]
exec diff?
13:55:21 [davb]
Well I wouldn't care if the whitespace has changed.
13:55:22 [davb]
Ok.
13:55:33 [davb]
thanks
13:55:44 [PascalS]
or 'if { ![string equal $s1 $s2] } {...}
13:56:18 [PascalS]
use diff on files in the filesystem, string equal on tcl strings.
13:57:17 [davb]
cool. I am working of hooking up to weblogs.com new update interface. You have to notify them via XMLRPC that your site has been updated.
13:57:35 [davb]
And I want to include the chump which is just XML files. No database.
13:58:34 [davb]
Or I could hack it into the chump itself. Now thats a cool idea.
13:59:08 [PascalS]
chump thet the thing that goes 'Chump url grabbed!' on this channel?
14:00:10 [davb]
yes.
14:00:24 [davb]
Its a bot written in python. I got the idea from #rdfig
14:00:46 [davb]
I figure its good OpenACS advertising.
14:00:57 [PascalS]
* PascalS is checking out weblogs.com
14:05:51 [markd2]
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14:06:51 [davb]
wait... I just rememberd. I want to compare a file with itself. That is the tricky part.
14:07:01 [PascalS]
oh.
14:07:04 [PascalS]
that's simple
14:07:20 [PascalS]
use md5sum to store the previous versions md5 hash
14:07:32 [davb]
Aha. Thanks!
14:07:57 [markd2]
is there something like pgp for tcl?
14:08:08 [markd2]
say I want to encrypt credit card numbers with a public key when going into the db
14:08:20 [markd2]
then use my private key to decrypt them before fulfillment
14:08:28 [PascalS]
spawning gpg is prolly the simplest way.
14:08:53 [PascalS]
read from it's stdout for the result...
14:09:07 [PascalS]
gpglib isn't ready yet, I believe.
14:09:39 [markd2]
ok
14:09:41 [markd2]
thanks
14:09:52 [PascalS]
but don't keep the privatekey online on the server :)
14:10:02 [markd2]
heh
14:10:24 [markd2]
we're going to be doing manual fulfillment, and the plan is to slurp the encrypted keys locally and then turn them into real numbers here
14:10:32 [markd2]
the thought of storing raw credit card #'s makes me nervous
14:10:35 [PascalS]
okay, sounds good.
14:11:24 [PascalS]
you could also attach a line printer :)
14:11:40 [markd2]
heh
14:11:46 [markd2]
the colo place might object to the noise
14:11:54 [markd2]
a mom-and-pop. the pet turtles there might complain
14:12:14 [PascalS]
<grin>
14:13:02 [davb]
I thought there was an MD5 module for aolserver around somewhere
14:13:12 [PascalS]
probably
14:13:27 [PascalS]
it's a really simple algorithm.
14:14:10 [PascalS]
Infact, use the SHA module.
14:14:19 [davb]
Aha. Cool.
14:14:20 [davb]
I have that.
14:14:31 [PascalS]
Like MD5 but the hash values are bigger
14:14:42 [davb]
Probably not a problem for me.
14:14:55 [PascalS]
They're not that big.
14:19:36 [davb]
anyone have rbm's script to make an aolserver 3.3 install for OpenACS 4?
15:01:49 [PascalS]
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15:28:11 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax climbs out of bed to peek
15:28:20 [Psychephylax]
I feel worse than death
15:28:26 [Psychephylax]
i hate my boss
15:28:49 [markd2]
* markd2 hads Psyche some dayquill
15:29:13 [Psychephylax]
hmmmg
15:29:15 [Psychephylax]
good idea
15:29:22 [Psychephylax]
i'll go pick that up when I go get a money order
15:34:47 [Psychephylax]
my boss let me stay home
15:34:56 [Psychephylax]
Now I have to focus on being sick on Wed so I get him back
15:36:19 [markd2]
breathe into a lot of plastic bags
15:39:45 [Psychephylax]
Eh?
15:40:58 [markd2]
keep the germs
15:41:03 [Psychephylax]
I don't want to keep them
15:41:05 [markd2]
bring them in of wednesday even if you're feeling better
15:41:11 [Psychephylax]
you never know when they'll get mad at you and lash out
15:41:21 [markd2]
by that time you'll be immune
15:41:28 [markd2]
... unless they mutate ...
15:41:33 [Psychephylax]
They always mutate
15:41:36 [markd2]
then you can hit your boss with mutagerms!
15:41:51 [Psychephylax]
hmm
15:42:00 [Psychephylax]
I wonder if they will ever release SNL on DVD
15:46:21 [davb]
That would be cool.
15:48:16 [Psychephylax]
actually it seems as they did
15:48:31 [Psychephylax]
at least parts of it...mostly titled "SNL: Best of ____"
15:48:40 [Psychephylax]
like Mike Meyers and stuff
15:51:33 [Psychephylax]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/dvd/B00004ZEU5/tech-info/104-4433847-7857567
15:51:33 [chump]
A: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/dvd/B00004ZEU5/tech-info/104-4433847-7857567 from Psychephylax
15:51:47 [Psychephylax]
A:| Monty Python DVD Collection - a must get!
15:51:48 [chump]
titled item A
15:52:12 [Psychephylax]
A: Comedy, comedy and more comedy...
15:52:12 [chump]
commented item A
15:52:18 [Psychephylax]
Ministry of Silly walks!
15:56:32 [markd2]
oh no. I might have to get a dvd player now.
15:56:37 [markd2]
complete set of The Prisoner. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005NKCQ/qid=1001951824/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_7_2/107-5916530-0810938
15:56:47 [Psychephylax]
heh
15:56:57 [Psychephylax]
I got a DVD player for the 1st season of the simpsons
15:58:32 [markd2]
I was waiting for B5 to come out on dvd
15:58:43 [Psychephylax]
i think it's going to or it might have
15:59:06 [markd2]
it's not out yet
15:59:13 [markd2]
the "in the beginning" move might be out in december
16:00:05 [Psychephylax]
heh
16:00:10 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is not a big B5 fan
16:00:21 [markd2]
bummer
16:01:03 [Psychephylax]
nothing beats Star Trek classic
16:01:24 [markd2]
true
16:01:36 [Psychephylax]
damn it
16:01:37 [markd2]
but it was cool seeing a coherent story unfold over 5 years
16:01:45 [Psychephylax]
I want my name to time stamp too ;(
16:01:54 [Psychephylax]
heh
16:02:01 [Psychephylax]
Star Trek ruled though
16:02:11 [Psychephylax]
1 hour stories are much easier to follow than a 5 year one
16:02:13 [markd2]
* markd2 hands psyche a roll of time stamps
16:02:20 [Psychephylax]
oh boy!
16:04:39 [Psychephylax]
what to do...what to do...
16:07:20 [Psychephylax]
D'oh!
16:07:27 [Psychephylax]
SNL tickets are only sold in August
16:07:52 [Psychephylax]
i hope they have a 28th season
16:08:11 [Psychephylax]
i wanna go
16:08:46 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax crawls in his bed again...I'll be back later
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16:47:22 [davb]
why would an update on one row in a tiny little table take say, forever, on postgresql?
17:21:51 [rbm]
something wrong?
17:24:07 [rbm]
* rbm nods
17:28:08 [davb]
hi
17:30:41 [davb]
this is my query: update cr_keywords set heading='News', description='The New News Description'
17:30:48 [davb]
where keyword_id = '2457';
17:31:12 [davb]
When I try that postgresql just hangs. I tried in psql and AOLserver.
17:31:41 [rbm]
have you checked your processes and available RAM to see if PG has room to di its job?
17:32:05 [davb]
Nope. I'll check.
17:33:14 [davb]
plenty of RAM
17:35:08 [rbm]
define "plenty"
17:35:34 [rbm]
You might want to do some tunning in your PG startup options
17:35:37 [davb]
I am using 83m 100 free
17:36:02 [davb]
Probably.
17:36:21 [rbm]
WAIT! Why are you putting "keyword_id='2457'"? PG is probably doing a cast for every single row. You should do "keyword_id=2457" (no quotes)
17:36:38 [rbm]
"83m 100 free" makes no sense to me
17:37:10 [davb]
sorry. I have 192MB of RAM in this machine. 83MB is used. 100MB or so is free. So I am using less than half.
17:37:23 [davb]
Aha. That is the bind variable substituion doing that.
17:37:30 [davb]
(not is psql I just copied the query)
17:39:10 [davb]
I took out the quotes, but it didn't seem to help. There are only 5 rows in the table anyway.
17:45:01 [davb]
I think this is it:
17:45:01 [davb]
create trigger cr_keywords_update_tr after update on cr_keywords
17:45:01 [davb]
for each row execute procedure cr_keywords_update_tr ();
17:45:09 [rbm]
* rbm goes out for a bit
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17:52:34 [davb]
Here is the offending trigger:
17:52:35 [davb]
create function cr_keywords_update_tr () returns opaque as '
17:52:35 [davb]
begin
17:52:35 [davb]
if old.parent_id <> new.parent_id then
17:52:35 [davb]
update acs_objects set context_id = new.parent_id
17:52:35 [davb]
where object_id = new.keyword_id;
17:52:37 [davb]
end if;
17:52:39 [davb]
return new;
17:52:41 [davb]
end;' language 'plpgsql';
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18:06:37 [davb]
I removed the trigger and it still is stuck.
18:06:56 [davb]
maybe it's just REALLY slow.
18:07:43 [markd2]
what's up?
18:08:11 [davb]
I am trying to update one row in a 5 row table and postgresql is just sitting there. It never returns.
18:08:38 [davb]
It had a trigger after update so I got rid of it, but that didn't help.
18:12:41 [markd2]
any other session have a lock on that row?
18:12:46 [markd2]
(not sure about how PG does locking)
18:14:50 [davb]
I can't imagine. Noone else is using the server.
18:15:03 [davb]
I wonder if there is a way to check...
18:15:26 [davb]
I rebotted the server just in case.
18:17:03 [markd2]
in oracle-land there's all sorts of data dictionary tables to see who has what locked and why
18:17:08 [markd2]
PG probably has something similar
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18:18:35 [talli]
hey guys
18:19:00 [markd2]
yo
18:19:58 [davb]
hi
18:23:27 [AaronSw]
yoyo
18:25:03 [davb]
Here is my query plan
18:25:04 [davb]
openacs-4=> EXPLAIN update cr_keywords set description='Description' where keyword_id=2457;
18:25:04 [davb]
NOTICE: QUERY PLAN:
18:25:04 [davb]
Seq Scan on cr_keywords (cost=0.00..0.00 rows=1 width=39)
18:25:04 [chump]
Label NOTICE not found.
18:25:11 [davb]
Sounds pretty easy to me.
18:28:02 [davb]
OK. I have an idea.
18:29:24 [davb]
A PLSQL block is a transaction. The CR_KEYWORDS API has a seperate call for set_description and set_heading. If I call both of them inside a PLPGSQL block it will never complete.... thats my theory anyway. But it doesn't explain why it doesn't work when I do it all in one update.
18:31:35 [davb]
weird. Its just that one ROW that is causing the problem.
18:32:52 [davb]
Ok. Here is the REAL problem. I have keyword_id and parent_id. If the keyword_id of a keyword is in the parent_id column of another keyword, the update hangs. Otherwise it works.
18:34:13 [davb]
gotta go.
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