00:37:07 <loggy> loggy has joined #openacs
00:37:07 <forward.openprojects.net> topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/
00:37:07 <forward.openprojects.net> Users on #openacs: loggy davb xemacs5 Psychephylax GEM chump rbm abbaJ AaronSw shagster 
00:37:08 <ChanServ> This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
02:16:09 <shagster> shagster has quit
02:16:12 <shagster> shagster has joined #openacs
02:17:51 <xemacs5> xemacs5 has quit
02:24:47 <davb> davb has quit
02:29:05 <abbaJ> abbaJ has quit
02:29:05 <rbm> rbm has quit
02:29:07 <rbm> rbm has joined #openacs
02:30:27 <abbaJ> abbaJ has joined #openacs
02:42:25 <davb> davb has joined #OpenACS
02:42:38 <davb> hey Psychephylax!
02:42:44 <davb> Timely link from webword.com
02:42:47 <davb> http://webword.com/weblog/00000423.html
02:42:47 <chump> H: http://webword.com/weblog/00000423.html from davb
02:42:56 <davb> H:|Webword on online resumes 
02:42:56 <chump> titled item H
02:43:16 <davb> I am too lazy to figure out the correct characters for the accents, sorry.
02:43:41 <davb> H: Links to good and bad example resumes and also some advice
02:43:41 <chump> commented item H
02:48:51 <davb> davb has quit
04:35:52 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi all.  Services will be coming back in just a moment.  Please bear with us during the accompanying splits.
04:37:10 <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/
04:37:10 <ChanServ> This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
08:17:55 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has quit
08:42:42 <jerryasher> jerryasher has joined #openacs
11:18:55 <GEM> GEM has quit
12:32:34 <djg> djg has joined #openacs
12:44:26 <markd2> markd2 has joined #openacs
12:48:41 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit
13:03:33 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #openacs
13:11:46 <davb> davb has joined #openacs
13:15:54 <GEM> GEM has joined #openacs
13:24:51 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit
13:31:30 <davb> http://www.macromedia.com/resources/techniques/
13:31:31 <chump> A: http://www.macromedia.com/resources/techniques/ from davb
13:31:46 <davb> A:|Web Site Production Management Techniques
13:31:46 <chump> titled item A
13:32:01 <davb> A: From Macromedia and Kelly Goto
13:32:01 <chump> commented item A
13:32:26 <markd2> heh
13:32:33 <markd2> "Goto considered harmful"
13:55:40 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #openacs
14:10:01 <davb> A: This site has some actually useful information
14:10:01 <chump> commented item A
14:13:35 <davb> A: includes handy items such as a downloaded [client survey|http://www.macromedia.com/resources/techniques/resources/define/client_survey.rtf]
14:13:35 <chump> commented item A
14:15:16 <davb> A: [technical survey|http://www.macromedia.com/resources/techniques/resources/define/tech_survey.rtf]
14:15:16 <chump> commented item A
14:15:32 <davb> A: [sample user profile|http://www.macromedia.com/resources/techniques/resources/define/sample_user_profile.rtf]
14:15:33 <chump> commented item A
14:34:52 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has joined #openacs
14:35:03 <Psychephylax> Ahoy maties!
14:35:11 <markd2> greetings
14:35:19 <Psychephylax> :)
14:35:22 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax gives Mark a cookie
14:35:29 <Psychephylax> brb...have to go yell at my boss
14:38:44 <rbm> moo
14:39:21 <davb> moo2
14:43:58 <Psychephylax> moo^3
14:44:11 <Psychephylax> So my boss didn't launch SSHd on the box
14:44:19 <Psychephylax> and he's not here yet
14:44:24 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax twiddles thumbs
14:45:28 <davb> Psychephylax: read the chump from yesterday for resume tips
14:46:53 <Psychephylax> I saw the link
14:46:56 <Psychephylax> one of them at least
14:46:58 <Psychephylax> thanks :)
14:47:10 <davb> ok.
14:55:24 <Psychephylax> wasting time wasting time
14:55:28 <Psychephylax> cable free wasting time :P
14:57:49 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit
15:06:16 <Psychephylax> great
15:06:22 <Psychephylax> my boss will fix sshd when he gets in
15:06:25 <Psychephylax> whenever the hell THAT might be
15:06:49 <Psychephylax> by the time he does I'll probably forget what I needed to do
15:09:00 <rbm> * rbm heads out
15:11:27 <davb> lucky you Psychephylax
15:12:34 <Psychephylax> how am I lucky?
15:12:43 <Psychephylax> If I forget, I'll have to spend another week trying to remember
15:12:51 <davb> * davb turns on the sarcasm indicator
15:12:57 <markd2> * markd2 suggests a post-it note
15:13:17 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax looks at his bare desk
15:15:19 <davb> email yourself. 
15:18:25 <Psychephylax> lol
15:27:18 <jerryasher> jerryasher has quit
15:29:05 <Psychephylax> i could have been sleeping!
15:30:22 <markd2> markd2 has quit
15:49:27 <davb> * davb learns his something new for today
15:49:35 <Psychephylax> what's that?
15:50:21 <davb> Actually a couple of things. I learned HOW the tree query works in postgresql. Instead of just copying someone else's code and hoping it works I actually understand it now.
15:50:44 <Psychephylax> that's cool
15:50:54 <Psychephylax> I learned something too...but it was yesterday
15:51:02 <davb> Also % is the wildcard in SQL
15:51:05 <Psychephylax> DVD manufacturers are arseholes
15:51:17 <davb> DVD players or DVD discs?
15:51:26 <Psychephylax> DVD discs
15:51:43 <davb> Why?
15:52:02 <Psychephylax> what kind of a tv you got at home?
15:52:14 <davb> SONY 32 inch...
15:52:22 <Psychephylax> ok, is it wide screen?
15:52:28 <davb> nope. that's next.
15:52:33 <Psychephylax> ok well
15:52:39 <Psychephylax> The DVD people are trying to be funny
15:52:55 <Psychephylax> There are 2 different formats: wide screen / pan and scan aka full screen
15:53:01 <Psychephylax> for DVDs that is
15:53:20 <davb> oh yeah.
15:53:30 <Psychephylax> wide screen ones can technically be played in both but if you play it on a non-ws you get a band
15:53:40 <Psychephylax> at the top and bottom
15:53:42 <davb> Right, I have WS videos like that.
15:53:47 <davb> (VHS)
15:53:47 <Psychephylax> right
15:53:53 <davb> sooooooo.....
15:54:09 <Psychephylax> well, now the DVD disc guys are trying ot be funny releasing only WS DVDs
15:54:23 <Psychephylax> They could put both formats on one DVD
15:54:31 <Psychephylax> But that would be too easy of a solution
15:54:33 <davb> Oh, I like WS.
15:54:54 <Psychephylax> Well, in a perfect world me too
15:54:57 <davb> sorry. They should put them both on the disc though.
15:55:06 <Psychephylax> give me 3000$ for a WS tv and I'll call it even
15:55:27 <davb> Yeah. To watch it on a regular TV you need at least a 30" tv.
15:55:36 <Psychephylax> i have a 19" tv
15:55:49 <Psychephylax> If I get a 30" tv that's like half my room
15:55:50 <Psychephylax> lol
15:56:30 <davb> OK. I guess I am spoiled then.
15:57:25 <Psychephylax> well, hey
15:57:39 <Psychephylax> don't get me wrong, i'm sure if I had a WS tv I'd say the same thing, WS all the way
15:57:56 <Psychephylax> but it's pretty much the same concept as to develop web pages for IE6
15:58:09 <Psychephylax> kinda leaves out all the netscape, lynx, opera...users out
15:58:27 <davb> yeah. unless the movies 4 hours long they can stick both on the disc.
15:58:46 <davb> Actually I suspect they don't even need to do that. Probably just some instructions on how to display the video on the disc.
15:58:46 <Psychephylax> It gives more value to a dvd
15:59:20 <Psychephylax> i was considering going to spend many $ on dvds
15:59:29 <Psychephylax> but now, I see no point unless they come in both formats on one dvd
15:59:52 <Psychephylax> brb
16:02:30 <Psychephylax> back
16:06:07 <Psychephylax> and my boss is still not here
16:10:29 <Psychephylax> i'm getting paid to surf the net
16:10:30 <Psychephylax> lol
16:12:27 <davb> me too!
16:13:04 <Psychephylax> heh
16:13:12 <Psychephylax> I'm probably getting underpaid for it too
16:13:29 <Psychephylax> What's the average going rate for surfing?
16:15:04 <davb> I can't say, thats confidential :)
16:15:31 <Psychephylax> lol
16:15:44 <davb> I get about $15/hour
16:19:26 <davb> * davb wonders if Psychephylax is asking for a raise or laughing at him...
16:30:46 <ola> ola has joined #openacs
16:31:37 <ola> hey you, the rock steady crew
16:32:40 <davb> hi
16:41:19 <ola> dave, I played with <if ... in ...> but never got it anywhere near the way you want it. 
16:41:47 <ola> I think it behaves strange. backwards or something...
16:42:02 <davb> WOW! Thanks. I went with just stuffing the data in a column in the query. It runs pretty fast with 5 or 6 keywords.
16:42:22 <markd2> markd2 has joined #openacs
16:42:56 <davb> ARGH. Why does a query work in psql but not OpenACS?? Perhaps its lunchtime.
16:43:28 <ola> very likely
16:43:52 <davb> Its just this:  select content_keyword__get_heading('3186');
16:44:25 <markd2> what are the different results you get?
16:44:32 <markd2> is psql inside a transaction with local changes?
16:44:47 <davb> * davb is has no idea...
16:44:58 <davb> I get one row "Keyword 1" in psql.
16:45:26 <davb> In OpenACS it says query returned no rows. I copy and pasted the query from the server log to make sure it was the same.
16:45:36 <markd2> usually when folks say they get different results in sqlpus and aolserver for the same query, it's because the sqlplus session is in a transaction and seeing newer/older values
16:46:17 <davb> Oh ok. 
16:46:18 <davb> I see.
16:46:39 <markd2> that's in oracle-land.  I presume PG land it's similar
16:47:37 <davb> Probably. Well I just load the page and it fails. Then I open up psql. Noone else is using the databse so I don't know if thats a problem. I evem restarted the server a couple times in there and it still gives the same results.
16:48:28 <davb> I wonder if I can call a fucntion like that in a db_string.
16:49:03 <davb> i.e.e set keyword_heading [db_string get_keyword_heading "select content_keyword__get_heading('3186')"]
16:50:26 <ola> I think you will only get the value of the first column...
16:51:05 <ola> but I've been wrong before.
16:51:35 <davb> Thats ok. It only returns one value.
16:51:43 <davb> Or rather the query does.
16:51:54 <ola> ok.
16:53:36 <ola> what does "content_keyword__get_heading" look like?
16:56:40 <davb> create function content_keyword__get_heading (integer)
16:56:40 <davb> returns text as '
16:56:40 <davb> declare
16:56:40 <davb>   get_heading__keyword_id             alias for $1;
16:56:40 <davb>   v_heading                           text;
16:56:41 <davb> begin
16:56:43 <davb>   select heading into v_heading from cr_keywords
16:56:45 <davb>     where keyword_id = get_heading__keyword_id;                                 
16:56:47 <davb>   return v_heading;
16:56:49 <davb> end;' language 'plpgsql';
17:06:13 <davb> ARRRGGGHHH!!
17:06:22 <davb> I have the exact same query in another page and it works fine.
17:08:28 <markd2> time to diff the two pages :-)
17:08:58 <Psychephylax> bah
17:21:21 <Psychephylax> bah
17:21:26 <Psychephylax> of course it didn't safe
17:21:28 <Psychephylax> save rather
17:23:58 <Psychephylax> now i gotta remember where them logs are stored
17:24:02 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has left #openacs
17:24:05 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has joined #openacs
17:24:31 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax reads wednesday's log
17:31:15 <davb> AHA! Never mind. I just can't read the logs correctly.
17:31:43 <Psychephylax> lol
17:31:49 <Psychephylax> hmmm
17:31:51 <davb> The QD should says if it can't find a query instead of Querying ''
17:32:12 <Psychephylax> Trying to figure out if I need a ; is not fun
17:32:40 <davb> You don't unless its in a db_exec_plsql block I think.
17:33:01 <Psychephylax> I did this: [db_string group_id "select group_id from groups where group_name = 'Manager';"]
17:33:07 <davb> nope.
17:33:12 <davb> don't need it.
17:33:15 <markd2> the ';' is only in sqlplus
17:33:37 <Psychephylax> oh ok
17:33:51 <Psychephylax> but the " " are still needed
17:34:07 <markd2> yeah
17:34:14 <markd2> you need to pass db_string the query as a single string
17:34:25 <markd2> without the E""s, you'd have 8 additional strings
17:34:39 <Psychephylax> right
17:34:57 <Psychephylax> = is counted is a string..hehe
17:35:25 <markd2> it's non-space characters surrounded by whitespace, which to tcl si a string
17:35:33 <davb> yeah, what he said.
17:35:36 <Psychephylax> lol
17:35:42 <Psychephylax> I smell popcorn
17:35:50 <Psychephylax> tasty kind too
17:35:56 <davb> wow, short attention span....
17:36:17 <Psychephylax> lol
17:40:16 <Psychephylax> anyone read this book? http://www.beedub.com/book/
17:41:48 <davb> nope. It is one of the few Tcl books in existence though.
17:42:23 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #openacs
17:42:32 <davb> Cool. My page works!
17:42:41 <davb> Now that all the queries actually exist.
17:43:15 <ola> cool.
17:44:37 <markd2> woo hoo!
17:45:57 <ola> davb: any progress on the static-pages front?
17:46:02 <ola> :-)
17:46:16 <Psychephylax> Hey
17:46:23 <Psychephylax> anyone heard of the prototype package?
17:47:02 <ola> I think so.
17:47:19 <davb> A little. Dan changed around the CR a little, now I need to make it work. The tricky part for me is the regexp that extracts the filename and path. 
17:47:39 <markd2> can you use the tcl 'file' command to do that?
17:47:52 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax scrolls
17:47:54 <Psychephylax> if {[ad_permission_p $package_id manager] or [ad_permission_p $package_id admin]} { 
17:47:54 <Psychephylax> set group_id [db_string group_id "select group_id from groups where group_name = '$user_type'"] 
17:47:54 <Psychephylax>  
17:47:55 <Psychephylax> [ad_user_group_user_add $user_id 'member' $group_id] 
17:47:57 <Psychephylax> } 
17:47:59 <davb> Maybe. The code is kinda messy for that.
17:48:16 <davb> I just have to dig in and break it until I learn how it works.
17:50:03 <Psychephylax> damn I wish I had this book now
17:50:34 <ola> Psychephylax is a regexp pro, I've heard.
17:50:48 <Psychephylax> hahahaha
17:50:49 <Psychephylax> yeah right
17:50:54 <Psychephylax> I've heard of them :P
17:50:58 <markd2> what cha need done?
17:51:10 <davb> Psychephylax: why is  [ad_user_group_user_add $user_id 'member' $group_id] in brackets?
17:51:27 <Psychephylax> ummmm
17:51:41 <Psychephylax> to make it look nice?
17:51:44 <markd2> heh
17:52:18 <Psychephylax> I know it's not needed
17:52:27 <davb> ok.
17:52:29 <Psychephylax> but i don't think it breaks anything to add that
17:53:18 <davb> OK. WHY is there datasouce.rownum and datasouce:rowcount
17:53:24 <davb> Who thinks these things up???
17:53:41 <Psychephylax> http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_410936.html?menu=news.latestheadlines
17:53:41 <chump> B: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_410936.html?menu=news.latestheadlines from Psychephylax
17:53:43 <markd2> heh
17:53:55 <Psychephylax> B:| Always blaming the jews!
17:53:55 <chump> titled item B
17:54:01 <Psychephylax> B: Silly fools!
17:54:01 <chump> commented item B
17:54:28 <markd2> wow.  that's pretty out there
17:55:37 <Psychephylax> or is valid
17:55:56 <Psychephylax> "or" rather
17:57:39 <Psychephylax> wow
17:57:42 <Psychephylax> bombed out on me
17:57:58 <djg> djg has quit
17:57:58 <rbm> rbm has quit
18:04:25 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax looks on scriptics.com for good syntax docs
18:05:05 <davb> http://www.aolserver.com/docs/tcl/tcl8.3/
18:05:06 <chump> C: http://www.aolserver.com/docs/tcl/tcl8.3/ from davb
18:05:18 <davb> C:|Tcl 8.3 Manual at aolserver.com
18:05:18 <chump> titled item C
18:05:45 <Psychephylax> i'm looking for "Or" 
18:05:45 <davb> C:[more AOLserver/Tcl docs|http://aolserver.com/docs/]
18:05:46 <chump> commented item C
18:06:07 <Psychephylax> if bah or bleh
18:06:10 <Psychephylax> that kind of an or
18:06:17 <Psychephylax> and there's no "or" keyword :(
18:06:54 <markd2> ||
18:07:01 <markd2> && is and, || is r
18:07:02 <markd2> or
18:07:08 <davb> Check out 
18:07:17 <davb> http://www.arsdigita.com/books/tcl
18:07:18 <chump> D: http://www.arsdigita.com/books/tcl from davb
18:07:21 <Psychephylax> I did
18:08:09 <Psychephylax> what chapter is this in
18:08:19 <Psychephylax> because the keyword list doesn't have "special chars" thing 
18:08:33 <davb> i don't see it anywhere!
18:09:04 <Psychephylax> My point exactly
18:09:15 <markd2> trust me :-)  || is or and && is and
18:09:29 <davb> I know. I was just wondering where it is mentioned in the docs
18:10:08 <Psychephylax> I'm wondering the same thing
18:12:19 <markd2> check out expr
18:12:19 <markd2> http://aolserver.com/docs/tcl/tcl8.3/TclCmd/expr.htm
18:12:20 <chump> E: http://aolserver.com/docs/tcl/tcl8.3/TclCmd/expr.htm from markd2
18:13:08 <davb> cool. 
18:13:54 <Psychephylax> thanks
18:14:39 <markd2> knew it had to be there *somewhere* :-)
18:14:51 <markd2> oooh .  expr support  the ?: operator
18:16:15 <Psychephylax> aha
18:17:22 <Psychephylax> hrmmm
18:17:27 <Psychephylax> user deletion does not work right yet?
18:17:41 <Psychephylax> ora8.c:3930:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-00600: internal error code, arguments: [KGHFRE2], [28459208], [], [], [], [], [], []
18:18:49 <Psychephylax> I broke something!
18:18:50 <Psychephylax> lol
18:19:03 <markd2> ooh - racle internal errr!
18:19:17 <markd2> time to call oracle support
18:19:22 <Psychephylax> did I do this?
18:19:33 <markd2> you've somehow tripped over some oracle program
18:19:39 <Psychephylax> umm
18:19:45 <Psychephylax> all I did was ran my add user script
18:19:50 <Psychephylax> now I can't even go to the front page
18:19:56 <markd2> whoa
18:20:03 <markd2> do ya'll have a dba?
18:20:07 <Psychephylax> yeah
18:20:12 <Psychephylax> he just left to Hicksville though
18:20:19 <markd2> bummer
18:20:52 <Psychephylax> yeah
18:20:53 <Psychephylax> big bummer
18:21:15 <markd2> one thing to try is bouncing your web server - maybe something in the session is confused
18:21:39 <Psychephylax> I just did still get this: http://167.206.9.143:8080/
18:22:08 <markd2> what's it supposed to be?
18:22:20 <Psychephylax> odd
18:22:27 <Psychephylax> says SNMP Tools at the top
18:22:30 <Psychephylax> or a login page
18:22:35 <Psychephylax> it works now 
18:24:19 <Psychephylax> excellent
18:27:04 <Psychephylax> ok
18:27:27 <Psychephylax> can someone explain to me why deletion of a user doesn't actually remove them from the database?
18:27:35 <Psychephylax> And I'm not talking about the one I wrote
18:27:40 <Psychephylax> The one that comes with OACS
18:28:43 <AaronSw> Did you guys get this quote yet?
18:28:53 <AaronSw> Philip Greenspun: "Janine and Mike Sisk at furfly.net just launched the New York Review of Books site. You can read Susan Sontag, powered by OpenACS. What better proof that ACS has entered the intellectual mainstream?"
18:28:55 <AaronSw>  - http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000tZf&topic_id=Ask%20Philip&topic=
18:29:24 <Psychephylax> nope
18:30:02 <davb> Because they probably are linked to a million objects in the database.
18:31:14 <Psychephylax> but what happens if a user registers
18:31:22 <Psychephylax> then deletes himself or gets removed
18:31:27 <Psychephylax> and then he wants to come back?
18:31:40 <Psychephylax> or is it just my database?
18:31:46 <Psychephylax> maybe I'm doing something wrong
18:32:34 <davb> Good questons. sorry I can't help...
18:32:49 <Psychephylax> Mark
18:32:51 <Psychephylax> you awake?
18:33:25 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax opens up the oven with a batch of cookies so mark can get a good wave of cookie smell going his way
18:36:31 <markd2> hi
18:36:37 <markd2> got distracted
18:37:19 <markd2> usually you'd just disable the user rather than actually deleting them
18:37:27 <markd2> that way bboard postings and whatnot can still be attributed to them
18:38:14 <markd2> aD's never done a good job of setting things up so that stuff is deletable
18:38:22 <markd2> e.g. using On Delete Cascade in foreign key references, etc
18:39:03 <Psychephylax> ok
18:39:14 <Psychephylax> I posted in the bboard anyways :)
18:39:25 <Psychephylax> So how the heck am I supposed to get the user back then?
18:39:54 <davb> is there an undelete? Seems you should be able to reactivate the account.
18:40:18 <Psychephylax> yes
18:40:21 <Psychephylax> there's an undelete
18:40:32 <Psychephylax> but trust me
18:40:34 <Psychephylax> it doesn't work right
18:40:35 <Psychephylax> lol
18:40:45 <Psychephylax> ora8.c:3930:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-03113:....etc
18:41:11 <Psychephylax> Frankly, I'm kind of scared to use this in a production system
18:41:37 <Psychephylax> I'd be better off writing one from scratch at least then all the fingers can point at me
18:43:04 <markd2> 3113 means the oracle server process crashed
18:52:05 <Psychephylax> hmm
18:52:13 <Psychephylax> I now have a bigger problem
18:53:23 <Psychephylax> Since the system does not remove the user, i can't add people with same e-mail address
18:53:44 <Psychephylax> It makes sense
18:53:56 <Psychephylax> since the db has constraints that rely on the info
18:54:25 <Psychephylax> But the call center has a high turnover rate so people who come might wind up getting the same e-mail address as someone before them
18:54:40 <markd2> hmmmm....
18:54:40 <Psychephylax> johnb@cablevision.com etc
18:54:51 <Psychephylax> next guy who's name is john can get that same e-mail address
18:55:04 <markd2> I guess when you disable them, mutate the email address
18:55:13 <markd2> johnb-deleted-9-23-2001@cablevision.com
18:55:24 <Psychephylax> does that update the whole db?
18:55:43 <Psychephylax> oh, silly me
18:55:47 <markd2> the email isn't the key used to cross-reference the tables
18:55:50 <Psychephylax> right
18:55:53 <markd2> so there's just ne of them :-)
18:55:54 <Psychephylax> so it doesn't matter
18:56:01 <Psychephylax> lemme go run that by my boss
18:56:02 <Psychephylax> brb
19:03:26 <Psychephylax> he's not too imprssed
19:03:52 <Psychephylax> his question was..."What happens if the person comes back" wouldn't you want to give him the same uid?
19:04:27 <Psychephylax> He also reads my posts on the bboards
19:04:50 <markd2> logical question "if he comes back and his email has been reassigned, then what?"
19:05:11 <markd2> you can always rename the jonb-killed-9-23-2001 bck to jonb@cablevision.com
19:05:44 <davb> Yeah, but the other jon took his email so he's jonb2@cablevision.com now...
19:05:57 <Psychephylax> i say just issue them as separate uids
19:06:11 <markd2> works for me
19:06:27 <Psychephylax> he didn't like it
19:06:32 <Psychephylax> I'm gonna do it anyway
19:06:44 <Psychephylax> because his suggestion of making a lookup table has the same exact problem
19:17:11 <davb> darn: 
19:17:16 <Psychephylax> ?
19:17:45 <Psychephylax> I wonder if it just checks for an e-mail address
19:18:00 <davb> My copy of OpenACS where I am fooling around with Edit This Page is out of date. I imported it from a local repository and now I need to rememeber how I did it.
19:21:33 <Psychephylax> hrmmm
19:21:43 <Psychephylax> integer is not a valid oracle datatype is it..should be number
19:21:46 <Psychephylax> stupid m,e
19:21:53 <markd2> integer is valid
19:22:03 <Psychephylax> what's the diff between number and integer then?
19:22:13 <Psychephylax> number can be a float?
19:23:54 <Psychephylax> * Psychephylax reads his Oracle book
19:24:27 <markd2> integer is shorthand for a nubmer without decimal digits
19:24:37 <markd2> if you describe table, it'll be number(X,Y)
19:24:53 <Psychephylax> hmm
19:25:17 <Psychephylax> i'm looking for one that can measure ping times
19:25:22 <Psychephylax> like 10.4ms
19:26:13 <markd2> number then (I think)
19:26:25 <markd2> all my stuff tends to be integral
19:27:59 <Psychephylax> aha
19:28:05 <Psychephylax> everything is a number :)
19:28:51 <Psychephylax> although you know, integer implies that it's only a number without the decimal point and numbers after it
19:29:05 <Psychephylax> I could have just said a "whole number" lol
19:29:08 <Psychephylax> stupid I
19:31:02 <Psychephylax> can oracle tell the difference between things claimed to be a number and ones that are an integer?
19:31:23 <Psychephylax> or does it do some internal replacements where integers are automatically changed to numbers?
19:32:37 <markd2> everyting internally is a number
19:32:41 <markd2> but it's a scale + precision
19:32:49 <markd2> so it ca ntell if you try t insert 3.14 into an integer field
19:33:00 <markd2> I dunn what it'd do thought (try it out!  it'll be fun!)
19:33:09 <markd2> whetther it truncates, rounds, or errors out
19:34:10 <Psychephylax> k
19:40:26 <davb> openacs4 is double single quoting bind vars in db_exec_plsql
19:43:31 <Psychephylax> awww crap
19:43:36 <Psychephylax> it's gotta be in order
19:43:38 <Psychephylax> bah!
19:44:20 <davb> wait thats right, plpgsql needs double single quotes...
19:52:35 <davb> AHA!
19:52:59 <markd2> wow
19:53:03 <davb> Postgres won't let me delete a keyword if it will create orphans. So do I have to delete them in the right order?
19:53:35 <rbm> rbm has joined #openacs
19:53:45 <djg> djg has joined #openacs
19:57:42 <davb> Hey! CMS hand;es this issue by NOT allowing you to delete keywords.
19:57:52 <davb> Me too.
20:16:37 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has quit
20:16:37 <rbm> rbm has quit
20:21:34 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has joined #openacs
20:21:34 <rbm> rbm has joined #openacs
20:21:55 <ChanServ> This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
20:23:56 <Psychephylax> f*ck
20:24:04 <Psychephylax> this is reaaaaally angering me
20:24:46 <Psychephylax> I don't have enough e-mail addresses to keep adding new ones every time there's a bug
20:24:58 <markd2> you can make up some
20:25:02 <markd2> oop@ack.blarg
20:25:17 <Psychephylax> heh
20:25:18 <Psychephylax> true
20:25:40 <Psychephylax> but I once got an e-mail from some guy in UK testing out his online ordering system because he was entering nobody@neverhere.com
20:25:44 <Psychephylax> or some crap like that
20:25:57 <markd2> right.  there's no Top level domain for 'blarg' though
20:26:01 <markd2> at least for the forseeable future :-)
20:26:10 <Psychephylax> ok
20:26:14 <Psychephylax> i'll use blarg
20:27:19 <Psychephylax> hmmm
20:27:24 <Psychephylax> user does not get added to the system
20:27:42 <Psychephylax> ack
20:27:52 <Psychephylax> user DOES get added to the system, but he does not join the group
20:28:31 <davb> Maybe he's a loner
20:29:24 <Psychephylax> ok, I see the problem (me thinks)
20:29:37 <Psychephylax> set group_id [db_string group_id "select group_id from groups where group_name = $user_type"]
20:29:59 <Psychephylax> that is not a valid SQL query it bombs out on $user_type because it can't find Manager in the system
20:30:08 <Psychephylax> because it has to be 'Manager'
20:30:26 <Psychephylax> and if I add '' around $user_type it doesn't expand propery
20:30:38 <markd2> is user_type a string?
20:30:41 <Psychephylax> yes
20:30:43 <markd2> you need to have it in single quotes
20:30:47 <markd2> otherwise it'l lbe a syntax error
20:30:54 <Psychephylax> I did have it in single quotes but I'll try again
20:31:06 <markd2> it's not in singlequotes in the code pasted above
20:31:16 <Psychephylax> I tried before I removed them :)
20:33:04 <djg> djg has quit
20:33:17 <Psychephylax> Selection did not return a value, and no default was provided
20:33:18 <Psychephylax>     while executing
20:33:18 <Psychephylax> "db_string group_id "select group_id from groups where group_name = '$user_type'""
20:33:18 <Psychephylax>     invoked from within
20:33:37 <Psychephylax> but I know my query is valid
20:33:48 <markd2>  Selection did not return a value, and no default was provided
20:33:52 <markd2> that means that it returned no rows
20:34:05 <Psychephylax> right
20:34:06 <markd2> so either have the query return something, or add a default value
20:34:10 <Psychephylax> because it can't find $user_type
20:34:28 <Psychephylax> SQL> select group_id from groups where group_name = 'Manager';
20:34:29 <Psychephylax>   GROUP_ID
20:34:29 <Psychephylax> ----------
20:34:29 <Psychephylax>       2180
20:34:29 <Psychephylax> SQL> 
20:34:43 <markd2> single quotes don't suppress variable expansion
20:34:59 <Psychephylax> Well.....
20:35:01 <Psychephylax> they do now :P
20:35:02 <Psychephylax> ?
20:35:24 <Psychephylax> i'll hardcode Manager in there to prove it
20:36:40 <davb> Psychephylax: use a bind variable.
20:36:43 <Psychephylax> lol
20:36:48 <davb> :user_type
20:36:52 <Psychephylax> I don't think that was my problem
20:36:55 <Psychephylax> invalid command name "ad_user_group_user_add"
20:36:55 <Psychephylax>     while executing
20:36:55 <Psychephylax> "ad_user_group_user_add $user_id 'member' $group_id"
20:37:40 <Psychephylax> so ad_user_group_user_add is not even a valid thing
20:37:46 <markd2> yeah, I've verified that tcl does *not* suppress variable expansion inside of single quotes
20:37:49 <markd2> so you're doing something else wrong
20:37:56 <markd2> paste in the code that's around and includes your db_string
20:38:09 <Psychephylax> if {[ad_permission_p $package_id manager] || [ad_permission_p $package_id admin]} { 
20:38:09 <Psychephylax> set group_id [db_string group_id "select group_id from groups where group_name = 'Manager'"] 
20:38:09 <Psychephylax>  
20:38:12 <Psychephylax> [ad_user_group_user_add $user_id 'member' $group_id] 
20:38:14 <Psychephylax> } 
20:38:56 <davb> gotta go
20:38:59 <davb> davb has quit
20:39:11 <markd2> and you're sure user_type is Manager?
20:39:30 <markd2> Just For Fun, in that if clase, do an ns_log notice "PSYCHE: user_type is $user_type"
20:39:40 <markd2> and verify that it's Manager without single quotes, or some other incorrect value
20:41:18 <Psychephylax> i hard coded the Manager bit in
20:41:23 <Psychephylax> It's still crapping out 
20:41:34 <Psychephylax> invalid command name "ad_user_group_user_add"
20:41:50 <Psychephylax> I have a feeling that API call is not there anymore or it never was
20:43:11 <markd2> that call does not exist in my api browser
20:43:39 <Psychephylax> look here: http://www.arsdigita.com/api-doc/proc-view?proc=ad%5fuser%5fgroup%5fuser%5fadd&source_p=1
20:43:58 <Psychephylax> Defined in packages/acs-core/user-groups-procs.tcl
20:44:28 <markd2> not defined in my 4.2
20:44:48 <Psychephylax> well, it's defined somewhere cuz I see it under some API
20:44:57 <markd2> in fact, I don't have an acs-core package!
20:45:10 <Psychephylax> me neither
20:45:14 <Psychephylax> So............
20:45:19 <Psychephylax> Who fscked up this one?
20:45:30 <Psychephylax> Cuz i don't think it's entirely my fault
20:48:20 <markd2> doesn't look like it's in the tcl 4.2 default
20:48:28 <markd2> you can slurp down an older one and check t see if it's there
20:48:40 <markd2> lord knows what version of acs is running on ad.com
20:48:49 <markd2> it's an unholy union of 3.x and 4.x
20:49:13 <Psychephylax> I'm losing faith in this ACS/OpenACS business :P
20:49:47 <markd2> there's always php and mysql
20:49:57 <Psychephylax> I'd do it in pure java
20:50:23 <markd2> there's always acs/java :-)
20:50:42 <markd2> I think that acs-core thing is a 3.x backwards compatibility thing
20:50:55 <markd2> look at http://www.arsdigita.com/api-doc/ - everything iwth 'core' in it is under 'disabled'
20:51:01 <markd2> or uninstalled
20:52:10 <Psychephylax> hmmm
20:52:22 <Psychephylax> Now I need to figure out what I can use to add user to a group
20:58:08 <Psychephylax> ok i see nothing 
20:58:11 <Psychephylax> *sigh*
21:00:28 <markd2> check the admin pages and see what it does
21:02:09 <Psychephylax> hang on
21:04:00 <Psychephylax> reading this: http://openacs.org/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0002r2&topic_id=12&topic=OpenACS%204%2e0%20Design
21:06:17 <markd2> cool
21:06:27 <markd2> Piskorski's bright.  I've worked with him before
21:06:50 <Psychephylax> elaborate on "worked with him"
21:08:08 <markd2> we worked on a project at aD
21:08:13 <Psychephylax> oh
21:08:36 <Psychephylax> he sure knows his oracle stuff
21:08:47 <Psychephylax> I'm still trying to get past the 9th line
21:08:47 <Psychephylax> lol
21:09:57 <Psychephylax> what is this 'salt' thing i keep seeing in OACS/AD
21:12:02 <markd2> probably for password encryption
21:13:11 <Psychephylax> how about this one
21:13:19 <Psychephylax> how are these _id things determined
21:13:24 <Psychephylax> because I see no pattern
21:13:45 <Psychephylax> party_id goes from 2242 to 3003 to 3008 to 3011 to 3013
21:14:46 <ola> ola has quit
21:15:05 <markd2> parties are (probably) acs_objects, so they share the same pool f ID numbers (and the same oracle sequence) with all other acs_objects
21:15:18 <markd2> so between 3008 and 3011, two other acs_objects were created
21:15:42 <Psychephylax> oh
21:17:57 <Psychephylax> see, I can't find stuff he's talking about
21:18:09 <Psychephylax> (Now, why this calls acs_group.delete instead of p_account.delete, I don't know. Probably that's
21:18:09 <Psychephylax>      a bug.)
21:18:20 <Psychephylax> I don't see acs_group or p_account anywhere
21:19:45 <markd2> look down another dozen lines
21:19:49 <markd2> or use the search feature of your browser
21:20:06 <markd2> p_account's there about 15 times
21:20:22 <Psychephylax> yeah I see that
21:20:26 <Psychephylax> I'm talking about the API
21:22:30 <Psychephylax> anyways, I think the reason they use acs_Group.delete is because it exists in the db yet p_account doesn't
21:23:06 <chump> chump has quit
21:23:06 <shagster> shagster has quit
21:23:15 <shagster> shagster has joined #openacs
21:26:37 <Psychephylax> his code makes sense but some parts are not clear because I don't understand what he's trying to do 
21:32:35 <Psychephylax> ok
21:32:53 <Psychephylax> Oracle book has nada on bulk collect
21:33:40 <markd2> bulk collect?
21:33:40 <Psychephylax> Mark, is that dude a genius?
21:33:58 <markd2> he's pretty bright
21:34:02 <Psychephylax> look: http://safari2.oreilly.com/main.asp?bookname=ornewfeatures&snode=42
21:34:15 <Psychephylax> He's using that and it's not in the "Oracle The Complete Reference"
21:34:28 <markd2> heh
21:35:16 <loggy> loggy has joined #openacs
21:35:16 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #openacs: loggy shagster @AaronSw markd2 GEM abbaJ rbm Psychephylax 
21:35:17 <ChanServ> This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
21:35:21 <Psychephylax> i have no clue how I'm gonna do this
21:35:35 <markd2> asktom.oracle.com has some bulk collect articles
21:37:41 <Psychephylax> collect doesn't even look like a reseved PL/SQL word
21:37:45 <Psychephylax> oh nm
21:37:47 <Psychephylax> there it is
21:40:54 <Psychephylax> yikes
21:41:00 <Psychephylax> I'm not that Oracle educated
21:43:12 <markd2> Oracle's Big
21:43:40 <Psychephylax> yeah
21:45:06 <Psychephylax> oh i c
21:45:13 <Psychephylax> he makes a pe_accounts table himself
21:48:02 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has quit
21:48:02 <rbm> rbm has quit
21:48:02 <GEM> GEM has quit
21:48:02 <markd2> markd2 has quit
21:48:02 <AaronSw> AaronSw has quit
21:48:02 <abbaJ> abbaJ has quit
21:48:02 <shagster> shagster has quit
21:48:19 <AaronSw> AaronSw has joined #openacs
21:48:19 <Psychephylax> Psychephylax has joined #openacs
21:48:19 <rbm> rbm has joined #openacs
21:48:19 <markd2> markd2 has joined #openacs
21:48:19 <GEM> GEM has joined #openacs
21:48:19 <abbaJ> abbaJ has joined #openacs
21:48:19 <shagster> shagster has joined #openacs
21:48:20 <ChanServ> This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
21:54:52 <Psychephylax> I'm getting a headache thinking about this
21:55:28 <markd2> what do you expect, doing New Complicated stuff on friday afternoon?
21:55:39 <Psychephylax> afternoon?
21:55:44 <Psychephylax> Dude, it's 6pm
21:55:45 <Psychephylax> :)
21:57:16 <Psychephylax> i don't like that my boss reads my OACS bb posts
21:59:56 <markd2> time for that assumed name
22:02:06 <markd2> "who is this Flargle Anklebytor that writes just like you do?"
22:03:54 <Psychephylax> hmmm?
22:12:48 <Psychephylax> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
22:12:55 <Psychephylax> I wonder....
22:13:08 <Psychephylax> What happens if I just set first and last names to blank
22:13:13 <Psychephylax> but leave the e-mail intact
22:13:35 <Psychephylax> Then when they have a user with the same account and it says that they already exist I show them the undelete screen
22:13:44 <Psychephylax> And force them to update the last first/last names
22:21:36 <chump> chump has joined #openacs
22:23:19 <Psychephylax> I'm gonna get fired
22:23:34 <markd2> heh
22:23:42 <Psychephylax> i just have that feeling
22:24:35 <Psychephylax> That's ok
22:24:44 <Psychephylax> I can make a good living donating blood :)
22:27:06 <Psychephylax> i'm off to go home
22:28:02 <Psychephylax> ok
22:28:07 <Psychephylax> Actually, I'm off to buy a book
22:29:16 <Psychephylax> see ya Mark
22:35:05 <markd2> l8r
22:35:10 <markd2> donating a blood book
22:42:51 <gilbertw> gilbertw has joined #openacs
23:19:20 <davb> davb has joined #OpenACS
23:21:10 <Psychephylax> no
23:21:16 <Psychephylax> just a plain old TCL/TK book
23:35:01 <gilbertw> gilbertw has quit
23:50:48 <bartt> bartt has joined #openacs
23:53:27 <markd2> markd2 has quit